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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: February 3rd, 2009 - Part 3

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schestowitzhttp://twitter.com/glynmoody/st...Feb 03 19:01
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jose__just noticed you didn't use my **improvement** to your ad.Feb 03 19:12
jose__shameFeb 03 19:12
schestowitz:-)Feb 03 19:12
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schestowitzHmmm... just got this: "I read the IRC conversation on the BN call-for-help-and-advice page.  You mentioned about putting together an ebook.  That might be something I could help with."Feb 03 19:18
schestowitz"I'm assuming you were thinking about the Comes v MS exhibits and commentary.  Maybe do ebooks in volumes to keep the sizes manageable.  Volume 1 could start with an explanation of what the Comes v MS suit was about, and how the exhibits are important to understanding the ways MS execs do business. Feb 03 19:18
schestowitz"It would take a tremendous amount of organizing and time for setting it up.  It would need ToCs and reference pages and all, but it's doable, I think.  You already have a lot of it written."Feb 03 19:18
schestowitz"THEN start on a book about Boycott Novell and how it began and why, and all the problem solving you've had to do.  I think it would be interesting..."Feb 03 19:18
schestowitz"On the other hand, you probably have MORE than enough on your plate right now without me thinking up new stuff to do..."Feb 03 19:18
schestowitzShould we do this?Feb 03 19:18
schestowitzAnother mail says: "Regarding the Fannie Mae contractor who is being blamed for attempting to destroy evidence, odds are he didn't come up with the idea on his own.  I expect there to be a trail back to other people."Feb 03 19:18
schestowitz"However, the Bush administration, by deploying various MS products as surrogates for an infrastructure have basically ensured chaos and data loss.  For example, the "security" fix that removed support for old MS Office formats basically removed access to all the electronic records in those formats."Feb 03 19:18
jose__roy if you start a wiki to plan this, people might chip in..Feb 03 19:20
jose__many would not consider this site to be clean.Feb 03 19:21
jose__so it's one thing to archive or clone.. it's another to package nicely as if it was clean.. would it be cleaned out? what standards would be used?Feb 03 19:22
schestowitzWhich site?Feb 03 19:22
schestowitzI see, I know...Feb 03 19:22
jose__i am referring to issues like the wikipedia .. where people fight over just what is acceptableFeb 03 19:22
schestowitzThe issue is seaming bits together in a proper orderFeb 03 19:22
jose__such a large site with so many controversial items means many will be turned off by at least some part of itFeb 03 19:22
schestowitzjose__: we already have a WikiFeb 03 19:22
jose__is the wiki being used for organizing material?Feb 03 19:23
schestowitzComes mostlyFeb 03 19:23
jose__introduce it thereFeb 03 19:23
jose__yeah, bring this up.Feb 03 19:23
jose__btw, what is the urlFeb 03 19:23
schestowitzhttp://boycottnovell.com/WikiFeb 03 19:23
jose__okFeb 03 19:24
schestowitzWill you please help us?Feb 03 19:24
schestowitzhttp://boycottnovell.com/wiki.Feb 03 19:24
jose__the organization would be link collections i guessFeb 03 19:24
jose__plus some intros, etcFeb 03 19:24
jose__??\Feb 03 19:24
schestowitzhttp://boycottnovell.com/wikiFeb 03 19:24
schestowitzI can't type wellFeb 03 19:24
jose__generally or just right now?Feb 03 19:25
jose__???Feb 03 19:25
jose__do you mean because of the "." at the end of the urlFeb 03 19:25
schestowitzWe need texts and synopsesFeb 03 19:25
schestowitzjose__: yesFeb 03 19:25
schestowitzThe idea is this.Feb 03 19:26
schestowitzWe have about 9000 exhibitsFeb 03 19:26
schestowitzWe can't do them all.Feb 03 19:26
schestowitzBut some people picked out favouritesFeb 03 19:26
jose__okFeb 03 19:26
schestowitzI gradually add more when I find the timeFeb 03 19:26
jose__going on that favorites thingFeb 03 19:26
jose__a star ranking of some sortFeb 03 19:26
schestowitzI sort of 'tag' them so that I can use related onesFeb 03 19:26
jose__could be used to mark off the noncontroversial gemsFeb 03 19:26
jose__from regular controversial gemsFeb 03 19:26
jose__from nongemsFeb 03 19:27
jose__etcFeb 03 19:27
schestowitzYesFeb 03 19:27
jose__maybe star ranking in various categoriesFeb 03 19:27
schestowitzBut I have a lot of work ahead adding the conentFeb 03 19:27
schestowitzIt's still not polished. Far from itFeb 03 19:27
jose__this isolates parts of bn which may lead to various books and helpersFeb 03 19:27
jose__i knowFeb 03 19:27
schestowitzBut it's a Wiki, not blog postsFeb 03 19:27
jose__but novell is a community player in the eyes of many and in some respects in the eyes of mostFeb 03 19:27
jose__that is the problem hereFeb 03 19:27
schestowitzSo I throw it in first, then make sense of itFeb 03 19:27
schestowitzThis is not just about NovellFeb 03 19:28
jose__i knowFeb 03 19:28
schestowitzMicrosoft might buy NovellFeb 03 19:28
jose__but novell is the trickiest issueFeb 03 19:28
jose__and the site is named boyco...Feb 03 19:28
jose__i knowFeb 03 19:28
jose__in a year's time, this sort of processes might be pre-emptedFeb 03 19:28
jose__ms also will try to become a "member"Feb 03 19:29
jose__you can always just go forward in every wayFeb 03 19:29
schestowitzI don't followFeb 03 19:29
jose__but you would get more time commitments perhaps and lead to a product adopted more if the tricky issues were managed wellFeb 03 19:29
jose__ms being a member just means that they will complain that they are not being treated well.. that they are part of the gangFeb 03 19:30
schestowitzThat already happensFeb 03 19:30
schestowitzIn many placesFeb 03 19:30
schestowitzThey also hire so-called 'open source' analystsFeb 03 19:30
jose__you can always just march forward as is, but with some organizing and partitioning, you might get help from those that might not helpFeb 03 19:31
schestowitzWhen they put money in some coffers, that's the end of thatFeb 03 19:31
jose__people will help for what they valueFeb 03 19:31
jose__well, today, they are still mostly outside i think.. but i really don't know what other linux people think exactlyFeb 03 19:31
jose__anwayFeb 03 19:31
jose__this site has noncontroversial (if you are novell supporter) gemsFeb 03 19:32
jose__and the controversial onesFeb 03 19:32
jose__i know the main message is boycott novell and relatedFeb 03 19:32
schestowitzLibya's Gadhafi Takes AU Reins, Promises Union Government < http://www.voanews.com/english/2009-02-03-v... >. Pentagon must be s*ing its pants now.Feb 03 19:32
jose__butFeb 03 19:32
schestowitzYesFeb 03 19:32
schestowitzBut you can't accept only half the messageFeb 03 19:33
jose__will people chip in if they don't want to be associated with many of the articles being consideredFeb 03 19:33
schestowitzIt's like saying "trust me on Microsoft but not on Novell"Feb 03 19:33
jose__i know the messageFeb 03 19:33
schestowitzOr "trust me on GNOME but not on Mono"Feb 03 19:33
jose__but you are asking for helpFeb 03 19:33
jose__and you might get more...Feb 03 19:33
jose__ok.. whatever.. i just thinking out loudFeb 03 19:33
schestowitzBeing adverse to consensus does not make something wrongFeb 03 19:33
schestowitzIn fact, we need to challenge the mythFeb 03 19:34
jose__some of the material is not hard material which means that you will lose supportFeb 03 19:34
schestowitzTo say "Linux is cool" is OKFeb 03 19:34
schestowitzTo say "Microsoft is corrupt" is also OK, but some people will disagreeFeb 03 19:34
schestowitzSo you need to convince themFeb 03 19:34
schestowitzThis isn't a "yes men" clubs of preach-to-choirFeb 03 19:34
jose__on the convince issueFeb 03 19:35
jose__there are gaps in bnFeb 03 19:35
jose__it's expectedFeb 03 19:35
schestowitzNeeds backgroundFeb 03 19:35
jose__but will it be addressed directly now or notFeb 03 19:35
schestowitzThat's why I link to older postsFeb 03 19:35
jose__if you archive.. "who cares"Feb 03 19:35
jose__but if you want to package.. you need to be more carefulFeb 03 19:35
schestowitzYes, but we don;tFeb 03 19:35
jose__i knowFeb 03 19:35
schestowitzIt's also slow and laborious writing a booFeb 03 19:36
schestowitz*kFeb 03 19:36
jose__but some of the material is questionable..Feb 03 19:36
schestowitzFineFeb 03 19:36
schestowitzSo be itFeb 03 19:36
jose__i know it's slowFeb 03 19:36
schestowitzIt looks like itFeb 03 19:36
schestowitzBut regulars know betterFeb 03 19:36
jose__i'm thinking out loud and trying to figure out what you wantFeb 03 19:36
schestowitzjose__: ah, okayFeb 03 19:36
schestowitzFor the Wiki?Feb 03 19:36
jose__anyway, tagging some pages is greatFeb 03 19:36
jose__this way you can manage thingsFeb 03 19:36
schestowitzOne option is making indexes of postsFeb 03 19:37
jose__if people have probs with a page they can complainFeb 03 19:37
schestowitzGroklaw has this.Feb 03 19:37
schestowitzThis requires timeFeb 03 19:37
jose__and maybe a summary will cover the objections to the blog pieceFeb 03 19:37
The_Mad_HatterOrganizationFeb 03 19:37
jose__before indexingFeb 03 19:37
jose__adding summaries and such.. so that these are indexedFeb 03 19:37
The_Mad_HatterNeat. I may not be much help, but I'll see what I can do.Feb 03 19:38
jose__maybe wiki-ize the summary pages of each blog.Feb 03 19:38
jose__also group blogs and have summaries of thoseFeb 03 19:38
jose__wiki-ize all the summary contentFeb 03 19:38
jose__in the end, you may over-ride, but you want feedback and a forum where people can complainFeb 03 19:39
The_Mad_HatterAs to the conflicts, they will always happen.Feb 03 19:39
jose__bn is honest about hearing all sidesFeb 03 19:39
jose__but a large endeavor like this should not sweep that under the carpetFeb 03 19:39
schestowitzjose__: we have summaries for all postsFeb 03 19:40
jose__conflicts are fineFeb 03 19:40
schestowitzUnder "except"Feb 03 19:40
jose__posts and comments/objectionsFeb 03 19:40
schestowitzOne-line summary for eachFeb 03 19:40
jose__you need to address objections or else let them have their sayFeb 03 19:40
jose__if you do, you will be more convincingFeb 03 19:40
jose__and not be labelled "so controversial" as I am sure some doFeb 03 19:40
jose__let me repeat something that may have gotten lostFeb 03 19:41
schestowitzjose__: who would do all of this?Feb 03 19:41
jose__post AND comments/objections should be summarizedFeb 03 19:41
jose__i would be more apt to participate if I felt the objections were being consideredFeb 03 19:41
The_Mad_Hattercommunity effort I would thinkFeb 03 19:42
jose__even court rulings let dissenting judges have their say.Feb 03 19:42
jose__yes, and the community helping would be larger the more fair the process wasFeb 03 19:42
The_Mad_HatterIt's easy for MS to attack one person, it's a lot harder for them to attack an entire community.Feb 03 19:42
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jose__novell (via reps) should definitely have a seat at the tableFeb 03 19:42
jose__that is tricky but necessaryFeb 03 19:42
jose__if you want a product many will acceptFeb 03 19:43
jose__of course, some things on BN are not that controversialFeb 03 19:43
jose__you can partition and those things people value the most will get done firstFeb 03 19:43
jose__ms antitrust should be high on the prio list of manyFeb 03 19:43
jose__i have my own pet topics as well for exampleFeb 03 19:43
schestowitzjose__: what's controversial? Mono?Feb 03 19:44
jose__ok, individual items of individual posts have been controversialFeb 03 19:44
jose__i know that mostly it's the regular novell or ms defenders that point them outFeb 03 19:44
jose__but that doesn't mean they are always wrongFeb 03 19:45
jose__shane for example has had a few complaintsFeb 03 19:45
The_Mad_HatterActually they are mostly wrong. About 90%.Feb 03 19:45
jose__that would still leave 10%Feb 03 19:45
jose__also, there are various levels of judging "proof"Feb 03 19:45
jose__bn might be correct on many thingsFeb 03 19:46
jose__butFeb 03 19:46
jose__you might not be.. in any case, you aren't correct if you aren't convincingFeb 03 19:46
The_Mad_HatterAnd of the 10% it's the small stuff, like punctuation.Feb 03 19:46
jose__and correlation does occasionally pass for proofFeb 03 19:46
jose__in any argumentFeb 03 19:46
jose__not always The_Mad_Hatter.. though i do agree many of the big deal itemsFeb 03 19:47
jose__were nitpicks in the big pictureFeb 03 19:47
The_Mad_HatterAlmost all the time jose__Feb 03 19:47
jose__we can all agree on this i thinkFeb 03 19:48
jose__that a summary should cover the comments in some wayFeb 03 19:48
jose__..the objectionsFeb 03 19:48
jose__it doesn't have to be everythingFeb 03 19:48
jose__okFeb 03 19:48
jose__are the only people that think X the novell folks?Feb 03 19:49
schestowitzjose__: I thought about just closing comments and directing to IRCFeb 03 19:49
schestowitzThis was you can argue in real-timeFeb 03 19:49
jose__if you think that is necessary that may be greatFeb 03 19:49
schestowitzThe issue is that it's not tied to the postsFeb 03 19:49
schestowitzIRC is free-flowingFeb 03 19:49
jose__schestowitz, give instructions for people to post the link followed by the commentFeb 03 19:49
jose__you can match up comments later that wayFeb 03 19:49
schestowitzI've already closed 2006-2008 comment forms to reduce new SPAM.Feb 03 19:50
jose__it's messy, but if that will help, do it.. feedback is valuableFeb 03 19:50
schestowitzI was getting like 300 spam per dayFeb 03 19:50
schestowitzIt was a waste of time to go through these for several hours per monthFeb 03 19:50
jose__static pages should help much i would always expectFeb 03 19:50
jose__keep last 30 days dynamic and the rest static.. perhaps updated periodically based on comments on irc or emailFeb 03 19:51
jose__ok, i am thinking about load issuesFeb 03 19:51
jose__if time is the only issueFeb 03 19:51
jose__perhaps you can give various other people access to review things that get trapped in the filtersFeb 03 19:52
jose__anyway, old stuff is mostly done.Feb 03 19:52
schestowitzYesFeb 03 19:52
schestowitzBut here's the thingFeb 03 19:52
jose__Here is one important specific Novell issueFeb 03 19:53
schestowitzI don't know if a summary of it all will be readFeb 03 19:53
schestowitzPeople like short blog postsFeb 03 19:53
jose__not a summary of everythingFeb 03 19:53
schestowitzBooks are long and not disparate.Feb 03 19:53
jose__in a wiki.. people might find the key points of debateFeb 03 19:53
schestowitzThe wiki ain't public nowFeb 03 19:53
schestowitzOnly mentioned in IRC for nowFeb 03 19:53
jose__others would work on keeping the summaries downFeb 03 19:53
jose__but would have the points there and not have to go through all comments maybeFeb 03 19:54
schestowitzjose__: people don't contribute muchFeb 03 19:54
jose__hmmmFeb 03 19:54
jose__but maybe more would...???Feb 03 19:54
schestowitzAnd there's need for moderation/inspectionFeb 03 19:54
jose__let me get back to a key point on novellFeb 03 19:54
schestowitzI need to go any momentFeb 03 19:54
jose__okFeb 03 19:54
jose__well there are two novell issues that bother me right nowFeb 03 19:55
jose__no just one thingFeb 03 19:55
jose__they are the focus of this site, but some of what is pointed out about them are things others doFeb 03 19:55
jose__in other words, the degrees of some things pointed here are matched perhaps by othersFeb 03 19:56
schestowitzYes, I know.Feb 03 19:56
schestowitzI'm not sure what to doFeb 03 19:56
jose__not everything but here you point to everything .. but only novellFeb 03 19:56
jose__that's the sort of things that I think needs to be addressedFeb 03 19:56
schestowitzBut I think time is well spent covering news items and developments (analysis).Feb 03 19:56
jose__you may not blog it initiallyFeb 03 19:56
jose__but feedback on a wiki or comments needs to account for this in some wayFeb 03 19:56
jose__--if we did a "boycottgoogle" they'd get trash as wellFeb 03 19:56
jose__so boycottnovell.. or maybe boycottFossThreatsFeb 03 19:57
jose__ cannot go too hard on any company unfairlyFeb 03 19:57
schestowitzBut the domain is too late to chabgeFeb 03 19:57
schestowitz(changeFeb 03 19:57
jose__the other companies and supporters may not contribute if they think a fine line divides them getting similar treatmentFeb 03 19:57
jose__i just threw that in ..about the domainFeb 03 19:57
jose__anywayFeb 03 19:58
The_Mad_HatterThe problem is that Novell made a choice. A choice that the community called them on.Feb 03 19:58
jose__i knkowFeb 03 19:58
The_Mad_HatterThey had an option to back off, to repudiate the choice, and they did not. SoFeb 03 19:58
jose__but some things said here apply to others (the lesser things)Feb 03 19:58
jose__but others don't get the same harsh treatment.. except maybe in commentsFeb 03 19:58
jose__so there are the things where novell crossed the lineFeb 03 19:59
The_Mad_Hattersince they made the choice, they should suffer the consequences.Feb 03 19:59
jose__and there is everything else which other bad corps also doFeb 03 19:59
jose__to some extent anywayFeb 03 19:59
The_Mad_HatterHell, they didn't cross the line, they nuked it.Feb 03 19:59
The_Mad_HatterAnd that's the point. As a corporation, you have to consider your choices.Feb 03 19:59
jose__The_Mad_Hatter, so you are saying that if you go too far.. you will have all your dirty laundry spilled out..Feb 03 19:59
The_Mad_HatterIf you make the wrong choices, you are going to attract criticism.Feb 03 20:00
jose__but if you stay within the line.. you can keep your dirty laundry hiddenFeb 03 20:00
jose__that might be reasonableFeb 03 20:00
jose__in any case, that is a real issueFeb 03 20:00
The_Mad_HatterNo, I'm saying that when you make a decision that hurts people, you cannot expect that they won't get upset.Feb 03 20:00
*schestowitz will be back at 10Feb 03 20:00
jose__byw, i know bn criticizes many othersFeb 03 20:00
The_Mad_HatterSee you later.Feb 03 20:00
jose__what I am saying is that the focus here is predominantly on novell (ms, etc)Feb 03 20:01
The_Mad_HatterRight. BN exists to criticise.Feb 03 20:01
jose__and some people would prefer fair coverageFeb 03 20:01
jose__which would imply others getting some heat as well..Feb 03 20:01
The_Mad_HatterThe focus is on companies who have hurt the community.Feb 03 20:01
jose__or novell being called out only on the harsher itemsFeb 03 20:01
jose__it's tough for BN because we don't have court power to go in and dig thingsFeb 03 20:01
The_Mad_HatterEver hear of Maple Leaf Foods?Feb 03 20:02
jose__also, to make a case, you have to go deep.Feb 03 20:02
jose__so i understandFeb 03 20:02
jose__maple leaf food.. noFeb 03 20:02
jose__i would have googled, but since you seem to know and have a point in mind..Feb 03 20:03
jose__i'll just wait for your story.Feb 03 20:03
jose__:-)Feb 03 20:03
The_Mad_HatterBad bacteria outbreak at factory - several deaths from tainted food.Feb 03 20:03
The_Mad_HatterCompany didn't try to avoid the issue. Company took full responsibility, paid compensation, and worked to make the product safe.Feb 03 20:03
jose__okFeb 03 20:03
The_Mad_HatterCorporate responsibility in action.Feb 03 20:04
The_Mad_HatterNovell didn't do that.Feb 03 20:04
jose__let me mention something different besides the parity thingFeb 03 20:05
The_Mad_HatterTheir actions were irresponsible, and they didn't own up to the problem, or try to fix is.Feb 03 20:05
jose__roy might say something about the stock price or the likely fortunes of msFeb 03 20:05
jose__that is fine.. but speaking on the future clearly means you are guessing in some ways..Feb 03 20:05
jose__now, you can do an analysis to justify your hunchesFeb 03 20:05
jose__but if that analysis isn't balanced, you aren't being convincing and may in fact not even be correctFeb 03 20:06
jose__egFeb 03 20:06
jose__many pointed about how every stock is basically going down'Feb 03 20:06
jose__so while i like the fact msft is going downFeb 03 20:06
jose__i dont necessarily think all the conclusions are supportedFeb 03 20:06
jose__if you include too many of these unsupported pointsFeb 03 20:06
jose__you lose support yourself in the story you are trying to tellFeb 03 20:07
jose__there is enough here on bn to keep readers paying attentionFeb 03 20:07
jose__but spending extra time to package something should address these points (at least for me) for it to be worth the timeFeb 03 20:07
jose__i guess i am talking about my own reservations.. in considering potential commitmentFeb 03 20:07
jose__.......Feb 03 20:08
jose__we can start by categorizing pages we each like.. a wiki would be great for thisFeb 03 20:09
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jose__i think it is fine to just organize.. cross-ref, tag, etc.. but summaries (which could factor into the tagging, x-ref, etc) should be careful about separating the more controversial points from the rest.Feb 03 20:13
jose__schestowitz, maybe a volunteer could get their own subsection in the wiki and they can then do their summaries, tagging, referencing, etc.Feb 03 20:16
jose__this is what i was attempting at thetuxproject some time agoFeb 03 20:16
jose__this is like the git vs the cvs modelFeb 03 20:16
jose__then from those components a main wiki can be formed.Feb 03 20:17
jose__you can have different restrictionsFeb 03 20:17
jose__the subsections (the volunteer sections) could do much of the hunting and summarizingFeb 03 20:17
jose__those doing "good" jobs would be most likely to have their work reused for the main official packagingFeb 03 20:17
jose__at the volunteer level, maybe let the volunteers get maximum write rights and everyone else limited if any write rightsFeb 03 20:18
jose__at the high level, you'd be more stringent in who can change the wikiFeb 03 20:18
jose__schestowitz, I am going to go, but let me know if you like the idea just suggested.. between this comment and above when The_Mad_Hatter left (at 14 past the hour)Feb 03 20:19
jose__later..Feb 03 20:19
jose__before i go...Feb 03 20:21
jose__The_Mad_Hatter: the community has corporate participants. It's fine if you want to appeal to the typical nonprofit mindset mostly..Feb 03 20:22
jose__but if you want something that the corps will back.. you have to be balanced if possibleFeb 03 20:23
jose__i know that bn shows the side that gets filtered in other news sitesFeb 03 20:23
jose__i'm not trying to give an opinion one way or the otherFeb 03 20:23
jose__but i do think a wider audience will be reached if some of the more controversial items can be fixed/cleaned/dispatched to the "speculation" bin/ etc.Feb 03 20:24
jose__btw, what do i know about getting corp backing.. that's not what i aim for.. nor do i think i can pass those testsFeb 03 20:24
jose__anyway.. the fewer loose ends, the fewer excuses you give those attacking youFeb 03 20:25
jose__[i'll have to remember to ask the mad hatter to read the irc archives..]Feb 03 20:25
jose__signing off.Feb 03 20:25
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schestowitzExploding mobile phone kills Chinese man < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/02/03... >Feb 03 22:47
schestowitzHitachi takes losses, chops jobs < http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2009/02... >Feb 03 22:47
schestowitzThere are many ways to read "chops Jobs"Feb 03 22:47
schestowitzThe Web site is stable again (we were having hosting issues). You might want to see http://boycottnovell.com/2009/01/31/h... (Bill Gates on Linux@Intel: “This Huge Driver Group Scares Me.”)Feb 03 22:52
schestowitzRidiculous Criminal Trial Of Google Execs Begins In Italy < http://techdirt.com/articles/20090202/2310143614.shtml >Feb 03 22:54
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jose__schestowitz, i just sent you emailFeb 03 23:00
jose__do you think it could be a good idea to put the write-up on a wiki?Feb 03 23:00
jose__reply to this or any question later if/when you find time.Feb 03 23:01
jose__thanksFeb 03 23:01
schestowitzHeyFeb 03 23:01
schestowitzwbFeb 03 23:01
schestowitzYes, I do.Feb 03 23:02
jose__when i read over it.. my eyes glazeFeb 03 23:02
schestowitzI can create some pagesFeb 03 23:02
jose__maybe it's because i have written and rewritten on so many occasionsFeb 03 23:02
schestowitzLet me create posts indexFeb 03 23:02
jose__if you think it's a good idea, then ok, it can be uploadedFeb 03 23:03
jose__i guess i'd need to know the rules for editingFeb 03 23:03
twitterjose__, Roy is very careful about what he says and usually backs it up with links.  "Detractors" are welcome to voice their usually wrong opinion, but Roy should not second guess them and censor himself with a "speculation" bin.Feb 03 23:04
schestowitzhttp://boycottnovell.com/wiki/index.php?t...Feb 03 23:04
schestowitzjose__: the Wiki is still undeer wraps in a way, so no rulesFeb 03 23:04
twitterBN's format is good, and site growth shows that people like what they find there.Feb 03 23:04
schestowitztwitter: I didn't like the phrase speculation bin, either.Feb 03 23:05
jose__twitter, did you read over everything i wrote during that section in irc before i leftFeb 03 23:05
schestowitzMany of my so-called speculations turned out to be true.Feb 03 23:05
schestowitztwitter: but we need indexFeb 03 23:05
twitterI think so jose.Feb 03 23:05
twitterIndexing is good.Feb 03 23:05
schestowitzOne reader made an ODF and Samba index for us.Feb 03 23:05
schestowitzA Wiki would be better because anyone can editFeb 03 23:05
jose__is the "speculation" bin what is turning off or something more general about what i saidFeb 03 23:05
PetoKrausright, my second machine is blob-free :)Feb 03 23:06
PetoKrausif we omit firmware.Feb 03 23:07
jose__roy, would it be useful to find articles and create (a) tag words and phrases for the main entry, (b) other tags phrases for the comments, (c) possibly summaries?Feb 03 23:07
jose__or is there a search mechanism that would make doing that work wasted time?Feb 03 23:08
*[H]omer (n=[H]omer@amsterdam.perfect-privacy.com) has joined #boycottnovellFeb 03 23:08
*ChanServ gives channel operator status to [H]omerFeb 03 23:08
[H]omerI'm baaaaack!Feb 03 23:08
jose__where do we draw the line between what eg google can put together and what requires higher level categorization thinkingFeb 03 23:08
twitterhello homerFeb 03 23:09
[H]omerhi tFeb 03 23:09
schestowitzwb, [H]omer Feb 03 23:09
schestowitzWhat happened?Feb 03 23:09
[H]omerHey RoyFeb 03 23:09
schestowitzWe had hosting hellFeb 03 23:10
[H]omerWhat's new?Feb 03 23:10
schestowitzLong weekend..Feb 03 23:10
[H]omerYeah I heardFeb 03 23:10
[H]omerSo how many hits does it actually take to bring BN down, anyway :)Feb 03 23:10
schestowitzPetoKraus: see this new interview: http://anuj360.wordpress.com/2009/01/...Feb 03 23:10
schestowitz"Stallman: If you want to keep your freedom, you must be prepared occasionally to make sacrifices to defend it.Feb 03 23:10
schestowitzWe in the free software movement constantly work to make it easier for computer users to keep their freedom. But we have not yet made it 100% painless. Thus, using free software occasionally requires anFeb 03 23:10
schestowitzinconvenience. Those are the sacrifices needed in our field to maintain our freedom."Feb 03 23:10
twitter~E6Feb 03 23:10
schestowitz[H]omer: the DB was brought downFeb 03 23:11
schestowitzI don't know how much traffic we getFeb 03 23:11
schestowitzI divert away to Coral disributed cacheFeb 03 23:11
twitterThe only thing more difficult than freedom is slavery...Feb 03 23:11
schestowitzSome of it bounced back to BnFeb 03 23:11
[H]omerAH OKFeb 03 23:12
jose__schestowitz, i got a message that there was a loop maybeFeb 03 23:12
schestowitzI exposed the flatfish todayFeb 03 23:12
jose__the solution explained was that the main server would have to filter outFeb 03 23:12
twitterwhat did flatfish do this time?Feb 03 23:12
jose__queries from the cache network itselfFeb 03 23:12
schestowitzAn old friend of him apprently dislikes him enough to pursue this.Feb 03 23:12
Ziggyfish'When almost 1 in 2 Windows PCs is a zombie, then the notion of “data theft” is like the notion of possession theft in a city where only half the buildings have doors.'Feb 03 23:12
Ziggyfisht very interesting how the botnet controllers have not used these botnets to find exploits in encryption algorithms.Feb 03 23:12
schestowitzjose__: yes, Coral is not predictableFeb 03 23:13
jose__there was a particular string from the User id that could be used to filter it outFeb 03 23:13
schestowitztwitter: http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux...Feb 03 23:13
schestowitzbrbFeb 03 23:13
[H]omerI got a strange comment on my "Why DotGNU is wrong" article, from somewhere in Oz. The style was remarkably similar to Waugh. Hehe. He got his answer though (longer than the original article).Feb 03 23:13
twitterbotnet owners don't need to break encryption, they own the machines and can get the info straight.Feb 03 23:13
MinceRhttp://bsd.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=0...Feb 03 23:14
MinceRwindows ce is dying, confirms microsoftFeb 03 23:14
[H]omerheheFeb 03 23:14
twitterDid you see that M$ has surrendered Netbooks too?  http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,...Feb 03 23:14
twitterhttp://news.slashdot.org/firehose.pl?o...Feb 03 23:14
twitterVista 7 for netbooks will only be a "starter" version.Feb 03 23:15
twitterI think that and the BSD news takes M$ out of mobile computing all together.Feb 03 23:15
[H]omer"Like other Starter editions, that netbook will only run three applications at a time, an arbitrary limitation the software imposes."Feb 03 23:15
[H]omerLOLFeb 03 23:16
[H]omerYeah, that sounds "great"Feb 03 23:16
MinceRlolFeb 03 23:16
MinceReven windows mobile can do more than thatFeb 03 23:16
[H]omerMy Sinclair/Timex spectrum can do more than that!Feb 03 23:16
schestowitzjose__: yes, that's what happensFeb 03 23:17
ZiggyfishMinceR, That's the who idea, so as to remove the need for netbooksFeb 03 23:17
MinceRby making dumb and useless netbooks?Feb 03 23:17
[H]omerIn fact, I have an HP calculator that can do better than Vista (seriously)Feb 03 23:17
*oiaohm (n=oiaohm@unaffiliated/oiaohm) has joined #boycottnovellFeb 03 23:17
MinceReven though users can choose more powerful ones running linux?Feb 03 23:17
ZiggyfishMinceR, yesFeb 03 23:17
schestowitzjose__: yes, i modified .htaccessFeb 03 23:17
MinceRi doubt i'll ever understand those nutcasesFeb 03 23:17
schestowitzRewriteCond %{HTTP_USER_AGENT} !^CoralWebPrxFeb 03 23:17
schestowitzI don't think this helped thoughFeb 03 23:18
twitterMincR, they must think they can strong arm the OEM and Vendors into supporting them.Feb 03 23:18
[H]omerRoy, can you run BadBehavior under WordPress. It'll probably take care of all the bad botsFeb 03 23:18
schestowitzMinceR: wince died long agoFeb 03 23:18
schestowitzIt's too $$ey to maintainFeb 03 23:18
jose__schestowitz, i don't know the problem or the solution, but i came across that clue earlier (not sure if online google or if from firefox itself.. don't remember)Feb 03 23:18
MinceRwindows mobile is winceFeb 03 23:18
schestowitzWindows Mobile likewise. They have build their own kernelFeb 03 23:18
schestowitzSame issue in Vista7Feb 03 23:19
MinceRand wm6 was released not too long agoFeb 03 23:19
MinceRalso note that m$ doesn't seem to care how much money they're bleedingFeb 03 23:19
MinceRat least until this pointFeb 03 23:19
schestowitzThey were supposed to build it with a new lean kernel, but it was vapourware. They just rejigged VistaFeb 03 23:19
jose__microsoft is trying to protect their high-margin sales from their netbook offerings.. but they can't protect it from linux.Feb 03 23:19
oiaohmLinux hater blog is back.Feb 03 23:19
Ziggyfishbrb, got to do some workFeb 03 23:19
jose__they can hope that netbooks remain very weak and unlikely to run many things at onceFeb 03 23:20
[H]omerIs there any real relationship between the Windows 7 kernel and the Singularity Project, I wonder, or was it all Vapour€® and hot air?Feb 03 23:20
schestowitzStart Ediciton of Vista7=EDGIFeb 03 23:20
oiaohmhttp://linuxhaters.blogspot.com/Feb 03 23:20
twitterAbandoning Netbooks pretty much proves Vista 7 is another bloated pig.Feb 03 23:20
schestowitzI was going to write about it. Someone from FSFE told me about itFeb 03 23:20
jose__just realized you just said what i said, MinceRFeb 03 23:20
oiaohmSingularity kernel existsFeb 03 23:20
MinceR:)Feb 03 23:20
oiaohmThere is no link between windows 7 and SingularityFeb 03 23:20
[H]omeroiaohm, yes but does it have anything to do with &Feb 03 23:20
oiaohmSingularity is a per .net OS right down to driver level.Feb 03 23:21
[H]omerSorry too slow :)Feb 03 23:21
schestowitzI think Vista7 will kill itself on netbooksFeb 03 23:21
schestowitzNot LinuxFeb 03 23:21
twitteroiaohm, except the black hole M$ is becoming.Feb 03 23:21
schestowitzSo *that's* how they make it 'lean'Feb 03 23:21
MinceRsingularity is not windows, therefore it isn't in any better position to run windows apps than free os-es areFeb 03 23:21
schestowitzThey make it useless and crippledFeb 03 23:21
oiaohmYou can download Singularitys source code twitterFeb 03 23:21
MinceRtherefore it doesn't have the one thing that keeps users locked into windowsFeb 03 23:21
schestowitzThis way they can maybe make more than $5 per copy of WIndowsFeb 03 23:21
MinceRtherefore it's doomed to failFeb 03 23:21
[H]omer$3 in AfricaFeb 03 23:21
MinceRmicrosoft is locked into a lose-lose situationFeb 03 23:22
twitteropen is not free oiaohmFeb 03 23:22
MinceRshared is not openFeb 03 23:22
MinceR:)Feb 03 23:22
oiaohmI know twitterFeb 03 23:22
schestowitz[H]omer: we don't get bad botsFeb 03 23:22
schestowitzNot that I noticeFeb 03 23:22
[H]omerReally?Feb 03 23:22
schestowitzI don't knowFeb 03 23:22
schestowitzDoesn't seem like itFeb 03 23:22
schestowitzBB is oldFeb 03 23:22
[H]omerMy BadBahavior logs are ful of themFeb 03 23:22
schestowitzLike 2004-5Feb 03 23:22
schestowitzIt can kill legitimate stuffFeb 03 23:22
schestowitzI know the authorFeb 03 23:22
oiaohmMS has a min profit they have to make to stay operating closed source.Feb 03 23:22
schestowitzThis was discused a lot in WordPress-hackers at the timeFeb 03 23:22
MinceRalso, singularity can't use windows driversFeb 03 23:23
oiaohmDevelopers and maintainers of a OS don't come cheep.Feb 03 23:23
oiaohmNice bit Linux will have a simpler time nicking and using singularity drivers.Feb 03 23:23
schestowitzEmbedded Windows seems dullFeb 03 23:23
schestowitzThey lose to LinuxFeb 03 23:23
[H]omerMinceR, I think that's the main thing about the Windows platform - it's entrenched, and therefore switching it to something radically different like Singularity would be nealry impossibleFeb 03 23:24
schestowitzAnd Windows embedded they already give almost for free (i.e. no revenue there)Feb 03 23:24
oiaohmWindows is losing on many frounts.Feb 03 23:24
schestowitzThey do it alone.Feb 03 23:24
twitterGNU/Linux works now and has a tremendous community.  Who's going to want to leave that?Feb 03 23:24
MinceR[H]omer: exactlyFeb 03 23:24
schestowitzMicrosoft does it itself. Windows = the wanker of operating systems.Feb 03 23:24
jose__paying bsd devs i supposeFeb 03 23:24
oiaohmMS idea was that they would slowly get everyone using more .net applications then use a Hypervisor to run like Windows 7 in the transition.Feb 03 23:24
oiaohmto singularityFeb 03 23:25
twitterdon't say such bad things about Wankers.Feb 03 23:25
MinceRlolFeb 03 23:25
MinceRwell said, twitterFeb 03 23:25
oiaohmMS has major problems.  Linux runs on many different cpu types effectively.   Singlarity is about staying competitive in that market.Feb 03 23:25
MinceRoiaohm: i can use a hypervisor on a real os, tooFeb 03 23:25
schestowitz[H]omer: Windows on some form factors is $0-5 in the USFeb 03 23:25
[H]omerMinceR, except possibly with emulation (e.g. Mac Classic -> Mac OS X). But Microsoft's development frameworks are equally inflexible (e.g. DirectX) so...Feb 03 23:25
MinceRi don't have to rely in m$ crap to do that :>Feb 03 23:25
oiaohmMS never dreamed Linux would have hit so soon.Feb 03 23:25
schestowitzOffice as 'top-up/add-on' is also falling to cheap territoriesFeb 03 23:26
MinceRdid they really believe they could keep OEMs in a stranglehold forever?Feb 03 23:26
schestowitzOOXML is their 'product'. It make people hostagesFeb 03 23:26
PetoKrausschestowitz: it's frankly, rubbishFeb 03 23:26
oiaohmMinceR: one answer to the stranglehold is yesFeb 03 23:26
schestowitz[H]omer: some of your PDFs are PageRank 5 or Feb 03 23:26
schestowitz6Feb 03 23:26
oiaohmMS also though patents would save there ass as well.Feb 03 23:27
[H]omeroiaohm, Netbooks have a lot to do with the sudden surge in Linux uptake (Microsoft admit this, in their explanation of profit losses)Feb 03 23:27
oiaohmSo preventing Open Source.Feb 03 23:27
MinceRthey forgot that some of their competitors hold patents tooFeb 03 23:27
MinceRperhaps they hope we've forgot that tooFeb 03 23:27
oiaohmFirst Netbook was released in 1994 [H]omerFeb 03 23:27
oiaohmThey are not even new.  Just people took interest this time.Feb 03 23:27
MinceRthe old subnotebooks were expensive, oiaohmFeb 03 23:28
oiaohmMost only sold in the japan market.Feb 03 23:28
MinceRthe new thing about netbooks is that they're cheapFeb 03 23:28
[H]omerRoy, yeah I'm also number one for "Comes vs Microsoft" on Google [cool]Feb 03 23:28
schestowitzoiaohm: the success of Linux is inversely proportional to *real* cost of WindowsFeb 03 23:28
MinceR(i'm not sure that merits a new name, though)Feb 03 23:28
schestowitzVista = $710 in HollandFeb 03 23:28
schestowitzBut no-one buys itFeb 03 23:28
[H]omeroiaohm, yes I actually have a Psion Netbook at home (running Linux now)Feb 03 23:28
oiaohmNo MinceR the Netbooks in the japan market were always cheeper than notebooks by a long way.Feb 03 23:28
MinceRicFeb 03 23:28
schestowitzSo they dump $50 copies at OEMsFeb 03 23:28
[H]omeroiaohm, It originally ran SymbianOSFeb 03 23:29
schestowitzAnd $5 for XP on subnotebooksFeb 03 23:29
MinceRoiaohm: what did they run?Feb 03 23:29
oiaohmThe ones in the Japan market mixture of SymbianOS and Linux and BSD.Feb 03 23:29
jose__ms can use proxies to do the patent attacksFeb 03 23:29
schestowitzoiaohm: subnotebooks now are about priceFeb 03 23:29
jose__foss is openFeb 03 23:29
schestowitzIntel dumped its marginsFeb 03 23:29
schestowitzNow the saw profit falling 95%!!!Feb 03 23:30
oiaohmThere were some rare windows CE onesFeb 03 23:30
MinceRi think their opponents are motivated to research and see through the proxies :>Feb 03 23:30
[H]omeroiaohm, didn't the SHarp Zarius run 98?Feb 03 23:30
oiaohmAnyone who claims Linux has had 100 percent of the netbook market is a idiot don't know there history.Feb 03 23:30
oiaohmSharp Zarius Linux out box skined to look like 98Feb 03 23:30
schestowitzI saw subnotebooks at work in 2005Feb 03 23:31
schestowitzVeyr expensiveFeb 03 23:31
schestowitzLike $1000Feb 03 23:31
schestowitzRunning Fisher Price edition of Windows (XP)Feb 03 23:31
[H]omeroiaohm, who's claiming "Linux has had 100 percent"?Feb 03 23:31
PetoKrausi think the guy - anuj - doesn't know what is he talking aboutFeb 03 23:31
jose__MinceR, i worry the opponents won't retaliate when proxies attack.. retaliation is madFeb 03 23:31
oiaohmSome of the MS guys saying it lost market [H]omerFeb 03 23:32
jose__also, some opponents don't mind patentsFeb 03 23:32
schestowitzLinux 'Defenders' in the headline again todayFeb 03 23:32
oiaohmOk linux might be back to 20 percet but it not going to let MS lift prices.Feb 03 23:32
schestowitzOIn promised me an exclusive interview/breaking story tooFeb 03 23:32
[H]omeroiaohm, "losing the market" is not 0%Feb 03 23:32
jose__patents can be a way to separate the proprietary foss-derived material from the base fossFeb 03 23:32
schestowitzhttp://www.networkworld.com/newsletters...Feb 03 23:32
schestowitzLosing the market is for Microsoft to go into debtFeb 03 23:33
schestowitzAnd that's already happeneingFeb 03 23:33
oiaohmLossing profit percentage.Feb 03 23:33
schestowitzMotley Fool, MSNBS and so on obscure the reality for the VoleFeb 03 23:33
*r0ver (n=r0ver@200.68.91.21) has left #boycottnovellFeb 03 23:33
schestowitzThey omit all those detailsFeb 03 23:33
oiaohmMS does not need to lose market to die.Feb 03 23:33
schestowitzLike the US omits details like its support for SaddamFeb 03 23:33
[H]omeroiaohm, in fact that kind of attitude seems to be Microsoft's biggest problem. To them, anything less than 100% dominance is a "loss". That's sick and immoral thinking. That's the Microsoft/Corporatist way, though.Feb 03 23:34
oiaohmYou can kill a company just buy cutting its means to make a high profit percentage.Feb 03 23:34
jose__the netbook linux share is proof of sorts that the 1% desktop quoted figure is (a) fake and/or (b) due to market distortions of some kindFeb 03 23:34
schestowitzWindows revenues dove 11%, days MSFeb 03 23:35
oiaohmNot really.Feb 03 23:35
schestowitzI reckon it may be moreFeb 03 23:35
schestowitzMicrosoft financing is fradulentFeb 03 23:35
schestowitzfact BTWFeb 03 23:35
[H]omeroiaohm, If they have a flawed business strategy that depends on fleecing customers, yesFeb 03 23:35
schestowitzSomeone blew the whistle on them and was bribe to STFUFeb 03 23:35
schestowitzSEC got sort os bribed tooFeb 03 23:35
schestowitzMicrosoft excuse: "everyone's doing it"Feb 03 23:35
schestowitzYes, they doFeb 03 23:35
oiaohm[H]omer: when is proritity software business not exactly abotu fleecing customersFeb 03 23:36
schestowitzMaybe that explains an avalanche of banks and companies..Feb 03 23:36
oiaohmSimple fact software costs bugger all to mass produce.Feb 03 23:36
[H]omerBusiness should not be about the quest for dominance, and the destruction of others, it should be about cooperating in a Free Market to provide subsistenceFeb 03 23:36
oiaohmclosed source software model is exactly about the quest for dominanceFeb 03 23:37
[H]omeryesFeb 03 23:37
schestowitz[H]omer: not *that* definition of "Free market"Feb 03 23:37
schestowitzFree market is like "tough love"Feb 03 23:37
schestowitzIt's a funny phraseFeb 03 23:37
schestowitzChomsky on "Free markets": http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=SgF...Feb 03 23:37
[H]omerSee my previous explanation of the differences between anarchy and freedomFeb 03 23:38
[H]omerRef: Stallman "Freedom vs Power"Feb 03 23:38
schestowitzYesFeb 03 23:38
schestowitzWhose power?Feb 03 23:38
*ushimitsudoki1 (n=ushimits@p5012-ipad13yosemiya.okinawa.ocn.ne.jp) has joined #boycottnovellFeb 03 23:38
schestowitzI give you power, so long as I keep power over youFeb 03 23:38
[H]omerheheFeb 03 23:38
schestowitzI give you rifle, not go to VietnamFeb 03 23:39
schestowitz*nowFeb 03 23:39
[H]omerThat's American "Patriotism" in a nutshell. "Your Freedom is our (gov) Power"Feb 03 23:40
schestowitzSheeshFeb 03 23:40
schestowitzYou can't say thatFeb 03 23:40
[H]omerYupFeb 03 23:40
[H]omertoo lateFeb 03 23:40
oiaohmThat is one of the big mistakes Open Source is not anarchy.Feb 03 23:40
schestowitzIt would be if Novell/Waugh get their wayFeb 03 23:40
oiaohmThere is no way open source could exist if it was.Feb 03 23:40
[H]omeroiaohm, neither is Free SoftwareFeb 03 23:40
schestowitzNovell will buy patents for usFeb 03 23:40
schestowitzSo that we can buy the 'safe' SLE*Feb 03 23:41
schestowitzPatents=fix for the system (to ensure monopolies endure)Feb 03 23:41
oiaohmMS has been restruct for crunch.Feb 03 23:41
schestowitzhttp://techdirt.com/articles/20...Feb 03 23:41
oiaohmNovell really did not buy patents.Feb 03 23:41
schestowitzThis is new: http://techdirt.com/articles/20...Feb 03 23:41
schestowitzWatch what Apple said about patentsFeb 03 23:41
schestowitzBloody hypocritesFeb 03 23:41
oiaohmMS is paying Novell more for use of Novell patents.Feb 03 23:42
[H]omerBSD = anarchy. Windows (EULA) = slavery. GPL = freedom (protected freedom)Feb 03 23:42
schestowitzThey stole from everyoneFeb 03 23:42
schestowitzThey feared patentsFeb 03 23:42
schestowitzNow they bully everyone with them.Feb 03 23:42
schestowitzLike MSFeb 03 23:42
schestowitz"For all the talk among patent system defenders about how patents are most necessary for young startup companies that need to grow, most tech startups couldn't care much less about patents (other than as a bogus currency to increase their valuation in talking to VCs). Startups are focused on actually building a product and getting it out to the market."Feb 03 23:42
schestowitz" Instead, what we see time and time again is that it's the big, more established companies that use patents to stifle startups, rather than the other way around. Startups innovate, while big companies litigate. "Feb 03 23:42
schestowitz"The company was incredibly open in sharing ideas and concepts, and wasn't going around threatening others for ripping off its IP (that did come later... especially with the graphical user interface, which Jobs himself admitted "ripping off" from Xerox... which had "ripped it off" already from SRI). It's really only when you're afraid of competing in the marketplace that you rely on patents."Feb 03 23:42
schestowitz"When you're young and innovative you focus on the possibilities and opportunities in front of you, rather than on ways to block others from innovating."Feb 03 23:42
schestowitzoiaohm: not tureFeb 03 23:43
schestowitzMicrosoft pays Novell to extinguish RehHat with poisonwareFeb 03 23:43
[H]omerPatents do not support the "abundance" model (as Miguel might say).Feb 03 23:43
schestowitzSo that people need to repurchase vounchers (MS calls them "patent royalties" now)Feb 03 23:43
oiaohmThere is legal quick sand with those vouchersFeb 03 23:44
oiaohmFor MS.Feb 03 23:44
oiaohmNovell wrote MS up as a distributitor.Feb 03 23:44
oiaohmAlways watch you back with Novell they will stick a knife in where they can.Feb 03 23:45
[H]omerI think the arguments over patents are pretty cut and dried, and there's little left to say. Those who continue to support them have an intractable agenda of greed, so unless the laws can be changed by the people's consensus, the "knowledge harvesters" will continue their pillaging of the human mind.Feb 03 23:45
oiaohmNote MS being a distributitor means GPLv3 clauses do apply.Feb 03 23:46
[H]omerI read somewhere that MS employees are banned from viewing GPL codeFeb 03 23:47
oiaohmCorrect most closed source companies ban it.Feb 03 23:47
oiaohmGPL viral effect can destroy them.Feb 03 23:47
MinceRgot to keep their minds closedFeb 03 23:48
oiaohmMS hate GPL because it can destroy them with one mistake.Feb 03 23:48
MinceRm$ hates gpl because using it would mean giving up some of the absolute control they covet so muchFeb 03 23:48
[H]omer"from what we know about Microsoft policies (right or wrong) their employees are barred from looking at code under certain licenses (GPL being one of them" ~ Miguel de Icaza, http://mail.gnome.org/archives/foun...Feb 03 23:49
MinceRbsdl, on the other hand, they see as a gift that they deserveFeb 03 23:50
[H]omerConsider the above statement from de Icaza. Now consider how MS developed their ODF plugin for Office?Feb 03 23:51
[H]omerAllegedly, ODF cannot be properly implemented without referencing the sources to OpenOffice.orgFeb 03 23:51
[H]omerHmm, I see a contradictionFeb 03 23:51
schestowitzWorld of Goo Publisher Files for Bankruptcy < http://blog.wired.com/games/2009... >Feb 03 23:53
schestowitz[H]omer: yes, I saw that Miguel quote tooFeb 03 23:53
schestowitzMaybe that's why Miguel chooses MIT/X11 in placeFeb 03 23:53
schestowitz*cesFeb 03 23:53
*ushimitsudoki has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))Feb 03 23:54
schestowitz[H]omer: that's why they have NovellFeb 03 23:54
schestowitzWait, I'll get you a recent linkFeb 03 23:54
schestowitzhttp://digg.com/linux_unix/Microsoft_Admits_...Feb 03 23:55
[H]omer"AbiWord developers are the ones who first realized that implementing ODF support without referencing OpenOffice source code is very hard." ~  asellus, http://www.betanews.com/article/Microsoft_Will_Sup...Feb 03 23:55
[H]omerDid Microsoft break it's own rules?Feb 03 23:55
schestowitzThey sens out the clow... NovellersFeb 03 23:56
schestowitz*sentFeb 03 23:56
[H]omerMaybe this is the /real/ reason for "Go-OO"Feb 03 23:56
schestowitzMaybeFeb 03 23:56
schestowitzGo-OOXMLFeb 03 23:56
[H]omer"Go MS-Team" (Novell, et al)Feb 03 23:56
[H]omerI might finally get to upgrade to Fedora 10 soon (had a dead DVD drive for ages)Feb 03 23:58
[H]omerKDE4 is ... radical to say the leastFeb 03 23:59
[H]omerI like it thoughFeb 03 23:59
schestowitzI was gonna ttry itFeb 03 23:59
[H]omerYou seen it on a LiveCD?Feb 03 23:59
[H]omerin action?Feb 03 23:59
schestowitzWas gonna write a review for Datamation just before I saw all the MS ads they started sportingFeb 03 23:59
schestowitzHaven't written there since..Feb 03 23:59
[H]omerVery different paradigm, but perhaps the way forwardFeb 03 23:59

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A Total Lack of Transparency: Open and Free Technology Community (OFTC) Fails to Explain Why Over 60% of Users Are Gone (Since a Week Ago)
IRC giants have fallen
Trying to Put Out the Fire at Microsoft
Microsoft is drowning in debt while laying off loads of staff, hoping it can turn things around
GNU/Linux Growing at Vista 11's Expense
it's tempting to deduce many people who got PCs with Vista 11 preinstalled are deleting it, only to replace it with GNU/Linux
Over at Tux Machines...
GNU/Linux news for the past day
IRC Proceedings: Tuesday, July 23, 2024
IRC logs for Tuesday, July 23, 2024
[Meme] Was He So Productive He Had to be Expelled Somehow? (After He Was Elected and Had Given Many Years of Work to Earn a Board Seat)
Things like these seem to lessen the incentive to devote one's life to Free software projects
GNOME Foundation is Causing Itself More Embarrassment With Secrecy Than With Full Transparency
It also arouses suspicion and hostility towards Codes of Conduct, which gave rise to 'secret courts' governed by large corporations
Links 23/07/2024: NetherRealm Layoffs and Illegitimate Patent 'Courts' (Illegal)
Links for the day
Gemini Links 23/07/2024: AM Radio, ngIRCd, and Munin
Links for the day
A Lot of GNU/Linux Growth on the Client Side is Owing to India (Where GNU/Linux Has Reached 16%)
A lot of this happened in recent years
Insulting Free Software Users in Social Control Media (Proprietary, Bloated With Opaque JavaScript) is Like Insulting Amish on TV
Why bother? Don't take the bait.
When Wikileaks Sources Were Actually Murdered and Wikileaks Was Still a Wiki
when Wikileaks was a young site and still an actual wiki
statCounter: Dutch GNU/Linux Usage Surged 1% in Summer
Microsoft is running out of things to actually sell
Microsoft's "Results" Next Week Will be Ugly (But It'll Lie About Them, as Usual)
Where can Microsoft find income rather than losses as its debt continues to grow and layoffs accelerate?
Julian Assange is Still Being Dehumanised in Media Whose Owners Wikileaks Berated (With Underlying Facts or Leaks)
Wikileaks and Free software aren't the same thing. Nevertheless, the tactics used to infiltrate or discredit both ought to be understood.
A Month Later
We're optimistic on many fronts
Links 23/07/2024: Downsizing and Microsoft and Still Damage Control
Links for the day
Gemini Links 23/07/2024: Friends and Solitaire
Links for the day
Why the Media is Dying (It Sucks, No Mentally Healthy People Will Tolerate This for Long)
linking to actual news articles helps fuel the spam, too
Censorship in Eklektix's Linux Weekly News (LWN)
Medieval system of speech, where the monarchs (Linux Foundation) dictate what's permissible to say
10 Years of In-Depth EPO Coverage at Techrights (Many Others Have Abandoned the Topic)
Listen to staff
Over at Tux Machines...
GNU/Linux news for the past day
IRC Proceedings: Monday, July 22, 2024
IRC logs for Monday, July 22, 2024