Bonum Certa Men Certa

IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: February 3rd, 2009 - Part 2


Enter the IRC channel now

schestowitz:-) It's already done in IRC.Feb 03 12:41
oob!Feb 03 12:41
oobdo tell..Feb 03 12:42
schestowitzIt's mostly in logsFeb 03 12:45
schestowitzIt's no secret the people who favour BN realise the role of Microsoft is expansionism. That's why they receive government protection sometimes. Actually, I write about it right now.Feb 03 12:45
schestowitzIf I post early, then maybe you can help me proofread.Feb 03 12:45
ooboh, i thought you meant that he had shed some light on the current circumstanceFeb 03 12:46
schestowitzOh, not here, no.Feb 03 12:46
schestowitzBut these issues are discussed a lot here.Feb 03 12:47
oobcertainly, i would be delightedFeb 03 12:47
schestowitzI'm doing another pass through . Do have a lookFeb 03 12:47
oobthough i'm at GMT+12Feb 03 12:47
schestowitzThere are likely some typos there stil.Feb 03 12:47
schestowitzWe develop good understanding of this by communicatingFeb 03 12:48
schestowitzI even have people in countries like India dropping names of cronies, so they can't escape under the radar as easily as they could before the Internet.Feb 03 12:48
oob"pampered as expensive" should read "pampered AND.."Feb 03 12:48
schestowitzyesFeb 03 12:49
oob"Microsoft has now a blog.." is a little cumbersome, perhaps "Microsoft now has.."Feb 03 12:51
schestowitzYes, but it's a quoteFeb 03 12:52
schestowitzSO I can blame it on someone elseFeb 03 12:52
oob"but as we last emphasised last week," also a bit cumbersome, suggest "but as we emphasised last week.." or "but as we emphasised again as recently as last week.."Feb 03 12:53
oobtrueFeb 03 12:53
*schestowitz searches for a pictureFeb 03 12:53
schestowitzOh, I see "last __ last"Feb 03 12:54
schestowitz 03 12:54
oobyep that's itFeb 03 12:54
schestowitzRoyalty-freeFeb 03 12:54
oobotherwise all well as far as i can see, great articleFeb 03 12:54
oob 03 12:56
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schestowitzPicture addedFeb 03 12:56
oobha! beautifulFeb 03 12:56
schestowitzI was going to do another oneFeb 03 12:56
schestowitzI'll just post it as link though (laziness and hurry)Feb 03 12:56
schestowitzDone. 03 12:59
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oobgreat tooFeb 03 13:01
*schestowitz does a post on ms securityFeb 03 13:01
oobi don't know how you find the timeFeb 03 13:01
schestowitzoob: I got these yesterdayFeb 03 13:01
schestowitzWent through the headline quickly.Feb 03 13:01
schestowitz*linesFeb 03 13:01
oobnonetheless, it's a remarkable dedication to researchFeb 03 13:01
oobi must adjourn, it's well past bedtime.Feb 03 13:03
oobnice chatting with you. i'll look forward to reading more on this particular topicFeb 03 13:03
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schestowitz "Some of Whitehall’s biggest computer projects have spiralled out of control, with total cost overruns of more than €£18 billion, an investigation by The Times can reveal."Feb 03 13:35
oiaohmOk when was the last time a IT job completed on buggetFeb 03 13:36
schestowitzoiaohm: 03 13:36
schestowitz "Sorry, the blog at has been removed. This address is not available for new blogs."Feb 03 13:37
oiaohmHmmFeb 03 13:38
oiaohmI have been to linuxhaters blogspot recently.Feb 03 13:39
schestowitzSome Thoughts On Saving The Economy < >Feb 03 13:40
schestowitzThe Big Fix < >Feb 03 13:40
oiaohmWonder if google is now cleaning blogspot of hate crimes now.Feb 03 13:41
schestowitzBrilliant: Too Much Facebook Makes Girls Depressed... Or Depressed Girls Use Facebook? < >Feb 03 13:43
schestowitzoiaohm: it doesFeb 03 13:43
schestowitzThere is a report tool for removing personal attacksFeb 03 13:43
schestowitzI had some against me and people voted to remove it. It was libelous.Feb 03 13:43
oiaohmThere was no need to insult people.Feb 03 13:44
oiaohmHating and insulting don't have to be joined.Feb 03 13:44
oiaohmBecided he EOF his blog then restarted it.Feb 03 13:44
schestowitzIs Nokia Demanding The Right To Spy On Its Employees? < >Feb 03 13:45
oiaohmMost likely.Feb 03 13:46
oiaohmIf we did not have laws there would be more cams in tolletsFeb 03 13:46
oiaohmFunny enough most elevators in big building have cams in them yet people still have sex in them.Feb 03 13:48
schestowitzThey entertain the guard.Feb 03 13:49
oiaohmIt depends on the building its some times fun to set off fire alarm when they are just about to get started if no one else is in building.Feb 03 13:51
oiaohmNote alarm test.Feb 03 13:51
schestowitzis this antoher mole? Q&A: Ex-Yahoo media boss Scott Moore on his new Microsoft job < >Feb 03 13:51
oiaohmFor who is the question.Feb 03 13:52
oiaohmYahoo or Microsoft.Feb 03 13:52
schestowitzNM, same guy.. 03 13:53
schestowitzoiaohm: did you try the prank?Feb 03 13:53
oiaohmOne of my jobs is building secuirty auditing.Feb 03 13:54
oiaohmSo yes I do get to see a lot of very wrong videos.Feb 03 13:54
schestowitzMicrosoft faces more heat over foreign workers and layoff plans < >Feb 03 13:54
oiaohmNumbers MS is talking about are not enough.Feb 03 13:55
oiaohmThere profit percentages unless they can lift them they are done.Feb 03 13:55
oiaohmTo build and maintain an OS costs a lot of money.Feb 03 13:55
oiaohmLinux distributes the cost quite effectively.Feb 03 13:56
oiaohmBasically MS is stuck.  Cut enough to get to the new profit level not have enought staff to maintain stuff.Feb 03 13:57
oiaohmOpen source has effectively screwed them.   Apple faced the same issue the reason why the core of there OS is open source.Feb 03 13:58
schestowitzWindows is the next SymbianFeb 03 13:59
schestowitz(i presume you can see the parallels)Feb 03 13:59
oiaohmYep perfect match up.Feb 03 13:59
oiaohmBoth got over priced for what they are.Feb 03 13:59
oiaohmSymbian is trying to stay alive by going open source.Feb 03 13:59
schestowitzApple's cores: CUPS, BSD, Samba..Feb 03 13:59
oiaohmThe thing is over time Apple is becoming more and more open source friendly because they are learning why Open Source works.Feb 03 14:00
oiaohmBy sharing openly you masively save development costs yet still get to product.Feb 03 14:01
oiaohmOk Apple will most likely always keep a pocket of closed source.Feb 03 14:01
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oiaohmThere is no way that I can work out to fully kill open source.Feb 03 14:03
schestowitzI?Feb 03 14:09
schestowitzOh, icFeb 03 14:10
schestowitzThat's why Micfrosoft is not campaigning to make FOSS a 'Windows/.NET thing'Feb 03 14:11
oiaohmTried did not work.Feb 03 14:14
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oiaohmMS was wanting a large numbers coverted to .net for the 2012 OS.Feb 03 14:14
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schestowitzoiaohm: still tryingFeb 03 14:16
schestowitzNot working if Waugh/Miguel other turncoats get pushed outFeb 03 14:16
oiaohmKDE 4.x when it gets fully working is kinda going to push back and cause some major problems.Feb 03 14:18
oiaohmWhy develop .net when you can develop qt4 and get basically the same job done with better ABI.Feb 03 14:19
oiaohmHmm netcraft is avoiding publishing the ssl servey.Feb 03 14:20
schestowitzI did this the other dayFeb 03 14:22
schestowitzI pasted this yearFeb 03 14:22
schestowitz1 million SSL-enabled sites, IIRCFeb 03 14:22
oiaohm  << Some how I don't think you would agree with netcraft good or bad test.Feb 03 14:23
oiaohmNo it did not.  SSL survey results give a lot more information in the past. << This page is normally updated yearly.Feb 03 14:24
schestowitz "YAHOO'S NEW HEAD HONCHO Carol Bartz, who has been jingling her spurs in an attempt to shake things up at Internet search also-ran Yahoo, has offered a $1,000 bounty out of her own substantial paycheck, to encourage Yahooglers to snitch on their colleagues who leak emails to the evil press."Feb 03 14:24
oiaohmSome how I suspect MS is currently Losing.Feb 03 14:24
oiaohmOk I am getting a insane streek.  Attempting to install eclipse in wine.Feb 03 14:28
schestowitz???/Feb 03 14:28
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oiaohmHas not been tested in a while.Feb 03 14:33
oiaohmSo far getting eclipse working in wine is a test of endurance.Feb 03 14:33
schestowitz[OT] WFT.. Google is indexing the bloody PDFs! They are rel="nofollowed"...Feb 03 14:35
schestowitzUnless something/someone links to them, this makes no sense.Feb 03 14:35
schestowitz 03 14:35
oiaohmGoogle also indexs doc and odf documents as well.Feb 03 14:38
oiaohmOnly thing that stops google is the .robot fileFeb 03 14:38
PetoKrausschestowitz: yes, it doesFeb 03 14:39
PetoKraus:)Feb 03 14:39
oiaohmHang on that would explain the high load on siteFeb 03 14:42
oiaohmwas google bot eating you alive as well as something like a slashdoting.Feb 03 14:42
schestowitzAny ildcard for filetypes?Feb 03 14:43
schestowitzThe thing is, some PDFs I do want indexedFeb 03 14:43
schestowitzOthers -- no so muchFeb 03 14:43
schestowitzoiaohm: no, not bots, real visitsFeb 03 14:43
schestowitzIt only indexed about 20 PDFs I didn't want it to and it's possible if the PDFs are linked to without rel="nofollow" (e.g. from an external site)Feb 03 14:44
schestowitzGood article: 03 14:49
schestowitzAirlines Defining Anyone Disruptive as Terrorists < >Feb 03 14:51
schestowitzIn-flight confrontations can lead to charges defined as terrorism < >Feb 03 14:51
schestowitzDisagreeing with war in Iraq can count as terrorism too sometimes.Feb 03 14:52
PetoKrausschestowitz: did you consider that hosting?Feb 03 14:53
PetoKrauswhich is advertised in freesoftwaremagazineFeb 03 14:53
schestowitzI haven't.Feb 03 14:53
schestowitzI'll install Squid or PoundFeb 03 14:53
schestowitzSome professor is checking for me which one is betterFeb 03 14:54
PetoKraussome harvard law proffesor? :)Feb 03 14:54
PetoKrausduh, i can't spellFeb 03 14:54
schestowitz "How can we be sure new technologies won't have a negative impact, asks Bill Thompson"... but watch the lady frying her brain (and the kid's) with a cellphoneFeb 03 14:56
schestowitzAnother RIP: Spansion CEO Quits, Chip Maker Seeks Buyer < >Feb 03 14:58
schestowitzMisconfiguration facilitates worm outbreak in London NHS hospitals < >Feb 03 15:09
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schestowitz "The same filters used to flag search results are used by Google's Gmail service, and according to Google Software Engineer Brad Taylor, during the time the glitch was active, and for some time after, legitimate messages sent to some Gmail accounts were marked as spam and delivered to the user's junk mail folder. "Feb 03 15:21
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schestowitzIs there a desktop pager compatible with Compiz sessions?Feb 03 15:45
schestowitz"The only versions of the machine currently listed are down as Windows XP boxes. There's no word on Linux versions." < > Microsoft is pressuring them. ASUS admitted thisaFeb 03 15:47
schestowitzGoogle snafu marked Gmail as spam < >Feb 03 16:01
schestowitz*LOL* "A PUBLISHER of CIO arse-covering studies, Forrester Research" 03 16:02
schestowitzComcast Apologizes for Super Bowl Porn Glitch < >Feb 03 16:04
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schestowitz"Open Source Car" which isn't < >Feb 03 16:27
schestowitzWhat's next? Open source animals (DNA)?Feb 03 16:28
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schestowitzWeird post this one... 03 16:30
MinceRopen source waterFeb 03 16:32
schestowitzYou can remove calls to GetChlorine()Feb 03 16:47
schestowitzMinceR: where can I get more links on Microsoft's crimes/collusion in Hungary?Feb 03 16:47
MinceRi'll see what i haveFeb 03 16:50
MinceRi only have hungarian linksFeb 03 16:50
MinceRwill those do?Feb 03 16:50
schestowitzNot reallyFeb 03 16:51
schestowitzThat's the issueFeb 03 16:51
schestowitzI'm writing about Kazakhstan right nowFeb 03 16:51
schestowitzThere's the MOU roadshowFeb 03 16:52
schestowitzI think Hungary got scammed by that tooFeb 03 16:52
schestowitzIllegal, potentiallyFeb 03 16:52
schestowitzThey use the crisis to put shackles on people and loot them: 03 16:55
schestowitz*LOL* "Microsoft is getting ready to relaunch Vista under the new “Windows 7” brand, in the hopes that Windows XP users find it worth the upgrade." 03 16:57
schestowitzThey already employ a lot of shill to create the illusion that Vista7 is HolyGrail(tm)Feb 03 16:57
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The_Mad_Hatterschestowitz - you around?Feb 03 17:02
schestowitzYesFeb 03 17:02
The_Mad_HatterTry PRQ for hostingFeb 03 17:03
The_Mad_Hatter 03 17:03
The_Mad_HatterThey host wikileaks among others.Feb 03 17:03
The_Mad_HatterAnd are not likely to bow down to Microsoft.Feb 03 17:03
schestowitzThe_Mad_Hatter: thanks.Feb 03 17:07
schestowitzI considered SquidFeb 03 17:07
schestowitzI need to get it installed once someone who advises me gets back to me. He was here in IRC the other dayFeb 03 17:07
schestowitzYou advised this to me before, right?Feb 03 17:08
schestowitzI think it's you who did.Feb 03 17:08
The_Mad_HatterUm, not directly. I did mention that I knew a place that was good.Feb 03 17:09
schestowitzPirate Bay is bad IP (Address) neighbourhood, no?Feb 03 17:10
The_Mad_HatterNot as far as I can tell.Feb 03 17:10
schestowitzAnother person suggested ibiblioFeb 03 17:10
schestowitzThey host Groklaw, which has a dedicated AMD boxFeb 03 17:11
The_Mad_HatterIbibilio would be good to. You need something that canFeb 03 17:11
The_Mad_HatterA - Handle the loadFeb 03 17:11
The_Mad_HatterB - Won't be pushed aroundFeb 03 17:11
ushimitsudoki what up fellasFeb 03 17:11
schestowitzHey, ushimitsudoki Feb 03 17:11
ushimitsudokiI got laid off todayFeb 03 17:11
schestowitzWe need advice: 03 17:11
The_Mad_HatterPRQ and Ibiblio are both good that way.Feb 03 17:11
The_Mad_HatterMorning.Feb 03 17:11
schestowitzushimitsudoki: many people did.Feb 03 17:11
schestowitzIt's not you, it's the economyFeb 03 17:12
The_Mad_HatterOuch. Sorry to hear that.Feb 03 17:12
The_Mad_HatterOf course then you got guys like me who can't work.Feb 03 17:12
schestowitzThe_Mad_Hatter: I'll share this with Shane.Feb 03 17:12
ushimitsudokiYup - 6 years and poof like that. Things getting rough - I was a gov't contractor, so you know shit's getting badFeb 03 17:12
schestowitzIt gets bad with an MOU is signed. :-DFeb 03 17:13
schestowitzushimitsudoki: Japan, right?Feb 03 17:13
ushimitsudokiHah - making a site slashdot-proof is a good problem to haveFeb 03 17:13
ushimitsudokiYes, japanFeb 03 17:13
schestowitzI've been reading a fair bit on what happens there.Feb 03 17:13
schestowitzEconomy-wise, not IT--wise.Feb 03 17:13
schestowitzushimitsudoki: we stood stable beforeFeb 03 17:13
schestowitzI use CoralFeb 03 17:14
schestowitzBut..Feb 03 17:14
schestowitzThis means I need to be awake and aware when it happensFeb 03 17:14
schestowitzLike an advance warning that some people E-mail us about.Feb 03 17:14
schestowitzThen I can redirect to Coral.Feb 03 17:14
The_Mad_Hatteradvance warning of the slashdot effect? Sheesh.Feb 03 17:14
schestowitzThe issue is, people move b/w pages, so they kind of 'escape' the cashing sandboxFeb 03 17:14
schestowitz*cachingFeb 03 17:14
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schestowitzThe_Mad_Hatter: it's easier with DiggFeb 03 17:15
schestowitzYou just put your domain and RSSFeb 03 17:15
The_Mad_HatterJust curious - how well backed up are you?Feb 03 17:15
ushimitsudokischestowitz: I wish I could make a good recommendation - but not my area. I thought I saw a wordpress plugin once that went to a static site automatically when a certain number of hits was reached? That's one possibilityFeb 03 17:15
schestowitzThen you see if something advances close to FP and shield the pages up in the sense that you strip down the PHP file (trimming for DB load) or redirectFeb 03 17:15
schestowitzThe_Mad_Hatter: I back up regularly. So does Shane.Feb 03 17:16
schestowitzushimitsudoki: yes, WordPress though does what a server-level (not CMS-level) software achievesFeb 03 17:16
The_Mad_HatterWhat I meant was, is it possible to download the entire site?Feb 03 17:16
schestowitzAlso, we use the 'LTS' version of WordPress, so many plugins are likely not to be compatibleFeb 03 17:17
schestowitzThe_Mad_Hatter: it used to be possibleFeb 03 17:17
schestowitzThe host blocked itFeb 03 17:17
schestowitzThey set limitsFeb 03 17:17
schestowitz 03 17:17
schestowitzIIRC, they took the site down for a few minutes, then put it back online with limits on queries.Feb 03 17:18
The_Mad_HatterDistributed backups. I have a copy of the Iowa MS stuff here. What I'm saying is that if you get knocked down, say MS sues you for libel, if someone else has a copy, well....Feb 03 17:18
schestowitzThe_Mad_Hatter: they can't sue for libelFeb 03 17:18
The_Mad_HatterI think you got the wrong host <G>Feb 03 17:18
ushimitsudokiWhoa. Waugh left GNOME? Is there real hope for the GNOME project?Feb 03 17:18
schestowitzAnd they won'tFeb 03 17:18
schestowitzIf anything, I could sue *Them* for libel if they chose this routeFeb 03 17:19
The_Mad_HatterOf course they can sue for libel, or whatever else they dream of. They might now win, but they can cause as much trouble as possible. If someone else has a copy, well...Feb 03 17:19
schestowitzI once spoke to a lawyer who got Microsoft convicted for libel. I spoke to him in 2006Feb 03 17:19
schestowitzushimitsudoki: GNOME is fineFeb 03 17:19
schestowitzI think Waugh was a PR disaster to them. He caused friction /inside/ GNOME.Feb 03 17:20
schestowitzMurray for example went Rambo on him.Feb 03 17:20
The_Mad_HatterHey, I'm paranoid. I've seen to much of this sort of stuff over the years.Feb 03 17:20
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ushimitsudokischestowitz: I don't trust it right now. Seems too many people are too eager to get mono all over it. With Icaza and Waugh out of the picture, things might look up, thoughFeb 03 17:20
schestowitzThe_Mad_Hatter: there are already 4 mirrors of Comes that I know of.Feb 03 17:20
schestowitzIt was a popular torrent in 2007Feb 03 17:20
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The_Mad_HatterWhich is how I got it. And how many mirrors of BoycottNovell?Feb 03 17:21
schestowitzushimitsudoki: Mono is a separate issue.Feb 03 17:21
schestowitzGNOME != MonoFeb 03 17:21
schestowitzBut GNOME is deployed with a lot of MonoFeb 03 17:21
schestowitzUbuntu contains MonoFeb 03 17:21
schestowitzUbuntu also contains GNOMEFeb 03 17:21
The_Mad_HatterAnd I strip Mono out of Ubuntu.Feb 03 17:21
schestowitzThe_Mad_Hatter: no mirror of BNFeb 03 17:21
ushimitsudokischestowitz: In some ways, I agree. My point is a -lot- of people seem to be trying to change that into "gnome == mono" or at least "all the cool bits of gnome == mono"Feb 03 17:21
The_Mad_HatterThere's several threads in the Ubuntu forums covering the issue.Feb 03 17:22
schestowitzI don't think we would mind one. I could set up one at work (simple Apache+PHP+WP thing)Feb 03 17:22
ushimitsudokiI felt like that was something Waugh was supportive of (the further integration of mono in gnome). And I -know- that's something icaza tried to pushFeb 03 17:22
The_Mad_HatterI think there needs to be mirrors of BN, preferably in different countries.Feb 03 17:22
schestowitzThe_Mad_Hatter: the DB is the core of itFeb 03 17:23
The_Mad_HatterOr at least archive copies, that can be put up quickly if anything happens.Feb 03 17:23
schestowitzSo it could be floated around without the passwords in the DB.Feb 03 17:23
schestowitzGroklaw has a mirror tooFeb 03 17:23
schestowitzOur issue, however, is separateFeb 03 17:24
The_Mad_HatterOf Comes yes. Of the writing you've done, if the have it, I didn't see it.Feb 03 17:24
schestowitzLet's say the load on "Effects" is not the issue but regular loads alsoFeb 03 17:24
schestowitzAbout 90 DB queries/secondsFeb 03 17:24
schestowitzI think Squid will improve thisFeb 03 17:24
schestowitzIt ought to serve identical pages without rerunning the whole thing each timeFeb 03 17:24
The_Mad_HatterI don't know, that sort of stuff is beyond me.Feb 03 17:25
schestowitzSince people don't hammer on the archives as much as on new posts, that ought to help a lotFeb 03 17:25
schestowitzI don't know how Pound and Squid work because I never tried itFeb 03 17:25
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schestowitzI imagine that it's an abstraction layer that keeps copies of pages served and can bypass WordPressFeb 03 17:26
The_Mad_HatterMe either.Feb 03 17:26
schestowitzIn which case, this would help a lot and keep us on cheap hosting.Feb 03 17:26
schestowitzShane pays those bills.Feb 03 17:26
schestowitzThe ads help cover thisFeb 03 17:26
schestowitzSo if we moved elsewhere, that would complicate things, I think.Feb 03 17:27
The_Mad_HatterHeh. Thinking about off-site backups, why setup a torrent?Feb 03 17:27
schestowitz"Why setup" or "why /not/"?Feb 03 17:27
schestowitzThe_Mad_Hatter: it's not simpleFeb 03 17:27
The_Mad_HatterSorry, pain killers are kicking in. Why not?Feb 03 17:27
schestowitzI need to ask Shane if he's OK with floating his posts and the passwords need to be stripped off the DBFeb 03 17:28
The_Mad_HatterI meant technically.Feb 03 17:28
schestowitzThe_Mad_Hatter:  I have statics of the pages. I could zip them up and make that a torrent hosted from here.Feb 03 17:28
schestowitzThat would make the equivalent of paper trail 'backup' of the siteFeb 03 17:29
The_Mad_HatterIt's possible to set up a torrent, and add to it over time.Feb 03 17:29
schestowitzBut anyway, that's a separate matterFeb 03 17:29
schestowitzAnother issue is navigation, I think.Feb 03 17:29
The_Mad_HatterSo once a week you add the new pages, and anyone who is downloading the torrent gets them automatically.Feb 03 17:29
schestowitzIf you want to make a sort of ebook, that mat be possible, but it need greppingFeb 03 17:29
schestowitzLike s/http:\/\/./Feb 03 17:30
The_Mad_Hatteryes, that could be a bit of work.Feb 03 17:30
schestowitzOops, sed, not grepFeb 03 17:30
schestowitzAnyway, regarding hosting, it's up to Shane really.Feb 03 17:31
schestowitzI'll post that log for him to read.Feb 03 17:31
The_Mad_HatterI've tried setting up an apache/php server once or twice, and messed it up pretty badly.Feb 03 17:31
schestowitzThat's acceptable for just secondary (backup)Feb 03 17:31
The_Mad_HatterK, anyway I better go grab another pill, I'm hurting like a bastard today.Feb 03 17:31
jose__The_Mad_Hatter, have you added to existing torrents before.. i thought that affected the torrent attributes and effectively means you are creating a new torrent .. meaning, i would imagine, that it would not be picked up by those grabbing the old (???)Feb 03 17:31
jose__schestowitz, can you package all the config data for wp and the source tarball.. then add the db and that should be it, right?Feb 03 17:32
The_Mad_Hatterjose - if it was explained to me right, it can be done. I admit that it's not my area of expertise.Feb 03 17:32
jose__might there be security risks in giving all that info out?Feb 03 17:32
The_Mad_Hatterjose - as long as passwords aren't included, and personal info in scrubbed, it should be okFeb 03 17:33
jose__also if you give to trusted folks, they can do some work in converting.Feb 03 17:33
The_Mad_HatterPoint is BN is drawing a lot of attention. It's critical of MS. MS has a habit of targeting anyone critical of them.Feb 03 17:35
jose__The_Mad_Hatter, i would think the confi data might be required for optimum effect (in general) and mentioned the source to mean the version of wp (in case future versions don't handle old data accurately) as well as any patches/plugins etcFeb 03 17:35
The_Mad_Hatterjose__ - don't know - again that's not my area of expertise. Now if you want someone to take apart a file using a hex editor....Feb 03 17:36
jose__The_Mad_Hatter.. I completely understand the "why" of distributing widely among trusted groupsFeb 03 17:36
jose__The_Hex_Hatter .. I'll have to remember that.Feb 03 17:36
The_Mad_HatterHell, I'd distribute it everywhere.Feb 03 17:36
jose__"everywhere" qualifies as among trusted if the goal is to get coverageFeb 03 17:37
The_Mad_HatterWonders of the internet. One copy can become 10,000 copies in under a minute.Feb 03 17:37
jose__for the time being, volunteers can simply grab digested online copies of various pages.. not randomly but organized so that everything is covered by two or more.Feb 03 17:37
The_Mad_HatterAnd considering how quickly MS got the Comes stuff taken off line, we want copiesFeb 03 17:38
schestowitz 03 17:38
The_Mad_Hatterof BN on computers everywhere. I don't trust those bastards, and while Roy thinks he can handle them legally, I'm not so sure.Feb 03 17:38
schestowitzjose__: yes, replicating is simpleFeb 03 17:38
schestowitzGiven a LAMP server set up (centos for example), it's a matter of dropping in the DB and home directoryFeb 03 17:39
jose__yes, that's what i meant.. so which centos standard distrib would be useful info.Feb 03 17:39
jose__in 5 or 10 years, devs might break with pastFeb 03 17:40
jose__of course, if we know the time period, we could just fetch sw from the time periodFeb 03 17:40
The_Mad_HatterBut that's why open source is so useful, the breaks can be coded around.Feb 03 17:40
schestowitzThe_Mad_Hatter: they also tried to take "Boycott Microsoft "offlineFeb 03 17:40
schestowitzIt's sort of down (it moves)Feb 03 17:40
schestowitz*movedFeb 03 17:40
jose__i knowFeb 03 17:41
The_Mad_HatterOf course I prefer straight GPL myself. Anything that Microsoft doesn't like, has got to be good.Feb 03 17:41
jose__but if all you have is a data file.. it takes skill and timeFeb 03 17:41
jose__to guesstimate the foss that produced itFeb 03 17:41
schestowitzRead this: 03 17:41
schestowitz"Now I’m asking myself, how does this Microsoft employee come to be calling my place of business? I certainly don’t post my company phone number on the Boycott Microsoft site."Feb 03 17:41
The_Mad_HatterYeah, what I'd expect. That's why I'm advocating lots of copies. If they take it offline, it comes back - think of the Hydra in Greek myth.Feb 03 17:41
schestowitzThe site is not there anymore, but one person found it. They moved (Mitch)Feb 03 17:41
schestowitzIt was receiving a lot of attention (PageRank 6)Feb 03 17:42
schestowitzThe_Mad_Hatter: remember patent trolltacker?Feb 03 17:42
The_Mad_HatterMS doesn't like criticism.Feb 03 17:42
schestowitz 03 17:43
schestowitzHe got suedFeb 03 17:43
The_Mad_HatterYeah, I was a regular there.Feb 03 17:43
schestowitzBut Cisco was sued as wellFeb 03 17:43
schestowitzSo they can say he 'shilled' for CiscoFeb 03 17:43
schestowitzThis one got cybersquatted: 03 17:43
schestowitzThe guy who built it (collaborator) gave me a copy happilyFeb 03 17:43
schestowitzSo the DB lives on, although it's not particularly well oraganised... well, the info is still there in full,.Feb 03 17:44
*kentma1 ( has joined #boycottnovellFeb 03 17:44
schestowitzwb, kentma Feb 03 17:44
schestowitzDoes BT do VPS?Feb 03 17:44
The_Mad_HatterThat's why I'd like to see copies of BN everywhere. So that MS knows that a lawsuit isn't going to get rid of them.Feb 03 17:44
schestowitzkentma: 03 17:44
schestowitzHad we not been downed on Sunday, we'd make another front page in Digg and other sitesFeb 03 17:45
schestowitzBut the chance was missed due to the technical mess that occurredFeb 03 17:45
The_Mad_HatterHave you followed the action at Wikileaks?Feb 03 17:46
schestowitzThe Microsoft blogs are feeding the Net Applications nonsense, I see.......Feb 03 17:46
schestowitzThe_Mad_Hatter: yesFeb 03 17:46
The_Mad_HatterI'm clear. What I mean is that MS has no leverage on me, since I don't work.Feb 03 17:47
The_Mad_HatterBut most people work, and MS can lean.Feb 03 17:47
The_Mad_HatterWhile they can't use leverage on me, I can't do a lot either, other than talk. So that's what I do.Feb 03 17:48
schestowitzI asked Groklaw for a DB copy, but no..Feb 03 17:51
The_Mad_HatterGetting back to Wikileaks, I was one of the many who grabbed the torrent of their database, I have it backed up hereFeb 03 17:51
schestowitzOthers wanted a copy, that's why I askedFeb 03 17:51
schestowitzDo you also have the Wikipedia DB? :-pFeb 03 17:51
The_Mad_HatterPJ is paranoid. Note that this is not a diagnosis.Feb 03 17:52
The_Mad_HatterWikipedia? Don't think I have enough storage space. Remember, I don't work, so  got no money.Feb 03 17:52
jose__I've got the wikipedia db... why?Feb 03 17:53
jose__:PFeb 03 17:53
jose__all one hegazillgooglion of itFeb 03 17:54
*kentma has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))Feb 03 17:54
The_Mad_HatterI think that Al Petrofsky has a copy of Groklaw.Feb 03 17:56
schestowitzThe_Mad_Hatter: what do you mean "paranoid"?Feb 03 17:59
schestowitzBecause the MOGster said so?Feb 03 17:59
schestowitzShe has her reasons for apprehension and she doesn't want to use PGP encryption for reasonable causes.Feb 03 18:00
schestowitzjose__: the Wikipedia DB is not so bigFeb 03 18:00
schestowitzI think it would fit a hard-drive nicely if you exclude the multimedia componentsFeb 03 18:01
The_Mad_HatterNo, like me. She doesn't trust a lot of people, and with good reason.Feb 03 18:01
schestowitzYesFeb 03 18:01
schestowitzI got a message this morning tooFeb 03 18:01
schestowitzI have to ensure it's not a hoaxFeb 03 18:01
schestowitzIt's about  a Microsoft shill.Feb 03 18:01
jose__open works to add security and remove some of the trust issues.Feb 03 18:01
jose__-> opennessFeb 03 18:02
schestowitzAlso, PJ was betrayed by marbux, so she can't just trust anyoneFeb 03 18:02
The_Mad_HatterMarbux was an ass.Feb 03 18:02
jose__my bried dealings with marbux appeared sane.Feb 03 18:03
jose__he seemed to have quite a thing against ibmFeb 03 18:03
The_Mad_HatterYou can be sane, and still be an ass.Feb 03 18:03
jose__this bias is what i think perhaps was interpretable as pro-msFeb 03 18:03
jose__well, then what did you not like about himFeb 03 18:03
The_Mad_HatterHe backstabbed PJ.Feb 03 18:04
The_Mad_HatterAt least that's how it looked to me, and I like PJ a lot.Feb 03 18:04
jose__i exchanged a few private emails in follow up to him getting booted off odf oiic list.. private stuff but he seemed to have reasonable approach and ideasFeb 03 18:04
jose__and i think he underestimated msFeb 03 18:04
jose__he may not be a tech junkieFeb 03 18:05
jose__i got a hint that there was a falling out between him and pj, but that doesn't automatically mean he is an ass.. that's their private matter i supposedFeb 03 18:06
The_Mad_HatterMaybe. Never talked to him direct, but I did talk to PJ direct several times over the last 4-5 years, and I like her.Feb 03 18:06
jose__supposeFeb 03 18:06
jose__yes, that's fineFeb 03 18:06
jose__i respect a lot what she has doneFeb 03 18:06
jose__and i respect her approach in many waysFeb 03 18:06
The_Mad_HatterGuess I'm old fashioned. I tend to treat women better than I treat men.Feb 03 18:07
jose__i don't agree with everything, but that's because she is not me. :-)Feb 03 18:07
jose__you can do that, and you can like pj, and still be level headedFeb 03 18:07
jose__or so i try to be.. .. and am not implying you aren't.. but no one should ever get a free ticketFeb 03 18:08
schestowitzjose__: marbux mails me regularlyFeb 03 18:08
schestowitzDespite the fact that I publicly denounced him many times.Feb 03 18:08
jose__pos or neg? i stopped talking with him after that brief period.. i figured i might reply more at some point.. he writes a lot.Feb 03 18:08
schestowitzI used to mail him every dayFeb 03 18:08
schestowitzBecuase he helped with News PicksFeb 03 18:09
schestowitzHe's still involved in some circulationsFeb 03 18:09
jose__he does seem respectable.. but there apparently was a falling out of sorts.. again, i really feel he distrusts ibm but is partially oblivious to msFeb 03 18:09
schestowitzjose__: yes, he writes scroilsFeb 03 18:09
jose__scro  ... what?Feb 03 18:10
schestowitzI feel guilty if I don't read through the scrollsFeb 03 18:10
jose__yesFeb 03 18:10
schestowitztypoFeb 03 18:10
jose__lolFeb 03 18:10
The_Mad_Hatterhang onFeb 03 18:10
jose__i read too, but i really wanted to back away from the odf topic for a whileFeb 03 18:10
jose__all companies are in tough binds. this applies to ms, novell, ibm, etc.. but we still have to call the worst threats to defend the base communityFeb 03 18:11
jose__thought it helped ibm in many ways.. pj was doing just that, defending the base communityFeb 03 18:11
jose__ditto with bn, etc.Feb 03 18:12
The_Mad_HatterNow I can't find it. There's a web site where a bunch of ex-groklaw people have been hanging out. I know I bookmarked it, but I can't remember where.Feb 03 18:14
schestowitzWhat's the site like?Feb 03 18:16
*MinceR_ (n=mincer@unaffiliated/mincer) has joined #boycottnovellFeb 03 18:16
schestowitzMaybe I know itFeb 03 18:16
schestowitzIn 2006-07 I was mailing marbux and pj several times per dayFeb 03 18:16
jose__roy.. that's like a couple bn databases per day!Feb 03 18:17
jose__that's where your resilience comes fromFeb 03 18:17
*MinceR_ has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))Feb 03 18:18
jose__i'm kidding.. pj never wrote extensively to me directly in the few exchanges and marbux does write fine and i like his thorough coverageFeb 03 18:18
The_Mad_Hattersomething about flame wars I think.Feb 03 18:19
jose__ 03 18:19
jose__baby steps into the bsd word perhapsFeb 03 18:19
jose__-> worldFeb 03 18:20
The_Mad_HatterGot it - 03 18:21
The_Mad_Hatterbut it's down. Latest copy at Archive is from Feb. 2008Feb 03 18:22
The_Mad_Hatter 03 18:22
*MinceR has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))Feb 03 18:26
The_Mad_HatterOhh. Ohh. The pain. I'm laughing so hard my stomache hurts. Remember RSS using tinfoil on his passport and ID card?Feb 03 18:31
schestowitzjose__: what do you mean by "that's where your resilience comes from"Feb 03 18:32
jose__you don't sleepFeb 03 18:32
schestowitzThe_Mad_Hatter: that's an anti-Groklaw siteFeb 03 18:32
The_Mad_HatterRead this, it's freaking hilariousFeb 03 18:33
schestowitzShe hates itFeb 03 18:33
The_Mad_Hatter 03 18:33
The_Mad_Hatteryeah, but that's where Marbux showed up.Feb 03 18:33
schestowitzjose__: yes, but it didn't come from thatFeb 03 18:33
The_Mad_HatterDon't know why he showed up there, but I did see his tag there.Feb 03 18:33
jose__i was jokingFeb 03 18:34
jose__the only thing that bothered me a bit more than normal about pj-groklaw was that i think people should be able to express their concerns and speak their mind. when you judge content, it becomes a guessing game.Feb 03 18:36
jose__by judge i mean to moderate outFeb 03 18:37
jose__i want to have my say in ms sites (well, let's assume)Feb 03 18:37
jose__this doesn't mean there aren't reasons to moderateFeb 03 18:37
jose__i don't know really what gets moderated.Feb 03 18:37
jose__once i was warned for something i thought was innocentFeb 03 18:37
jose__i don't like creating trouble, especially with essentially friendly hostsFeb 03 18:38
jose__i'd rather remember all the positives about groklaw.. this neg stands out because free speech is so importantFeb 03 18:39
schestowitzThe_Mad_Hatter: are you related to the "Onideus Mad Hatter"?Feb 03 18:39
The_Mad_HatterModeration is a curse. If you do it you are cursed. If you don't do it you are cursed.Feb 03 18:39
jose__yes, i knowFeb 03 18:39
The_Mad_HatterNo. But I am the same person who posted on Groklaw using this tag.Feb 03 18:39
schestowitzAh, OKFeb 03 18:40
schestowitzjose__: thanks for the LT link. I saw some related job ad from MS earlierFeb 03 18:42
schestowitzLT cites /. ..... now, that's exceptionalFeb 03 18:42
jose__btw, with control over a site, i would definitely tend to moderate to get rid of attacks, spam (obviously) and certain other content inappropriate for the audience.Feb 03 18:42
jose__i already saw myself in actionFeb 03 18:42
jose__it's something you appreciate more from the outside.Feb 03 18:42
schestowitzMotorola Reports $3.6B Loss as Phone Sales Fall by Half < >Feb 03 18:43
jose__in this one case i blocked something from a site, i went to some trouble to explain the reason.Feb 03 18:43
jose__it's a horrible predicament to be in.Feb 03 18:43
jose__yet, because I know *my* intentions, you are affected as an outsider when you are on the receiving end.Feb 03 18:43
schestowitzIt's inevitable if you get attentionFeb 03 18:43
The_Mad_HatterI prefer no moderation myself. I believe in freedom. But there are times when you have to step in.Feb 03 18:44
schestowitzThe clowns go where they can make a circus with an audienceFeb 03 18:44
The_Mad_HatterLike this one site I was running, where some idiot thought that freedom to comment, meant freedom to advertise.Feb 03 18:44
jose__:-)Feb 03 18:44
The_Mad_HatterAnd was posting so many ads, that the users started to leave.Feb 03 18:45
jose__the rights of the group over the rights of the individual...Feb 03 18:45
jose__the balancing actFeb 03 18:45
The_Mad_HatterYeah. Moderation is necessary, but it needs to be used with care.Feb 03 18:46
The_Mad_HatterFYI - I use a lot of different names, in a lot of different places.Feb 03 18:46
schestowitzIf you moderate, you can scare away participants.Feb 03 18:47
schestowitzLikewise, as in the case of COLA (USENET) of BN, when commenters start attacking other commenters, that's troublesFeb 03 18:48
schestowitzA lot of BN readers would also never comment because of the site's nameFeb 03 18:48
schestowitzIn Groklaw, comments are deliberately excludes from pages that search engines can indexFeb 03 18:48
The_Mad_HatterYeah. a lot of people thought PJ was too heavy on the moderation.Feb 03 18:48
schestowitzHigh five! Now Brazil Goes Big on the GNU/Linux Desktop < >Feb 03 18:49
The_Mad_HatterBut she had damned good reason to be. Some of the personal attacks that were made on here were pretty bad.Feb 03 18:49
schestowitz"At the end of last year I wrote about a big Brazilian project to provide 150,000 GNU/Linux notebooks for schools. Now the Brazilian Ministry of Education has topped that by ordering 324,000 "green" workstations running on GNU/Linux (although I can't quite tell whether this is as well as or instead of - anyone know?)."Feb 03 18:49
The_Mad_HatterNope, but good for Brazil.Feb 03 18:50
The_Mad_HatterAh, lunch. I'll be back.Feb 03 18:51
schestowitzBrazilian exports of soy, iron ore and oil to China are expected to fall 12 percent to US$11.2 billion in 2009, according to a forecast from the Brazil-China Council published in  < >Feb 03 18:52
schestowitz 03 18:52
schestowitzCool!Feb 03 18:52
schestowitz 03 18:53
jose__funny linkFeb 03 18:56
jose__check out this materpiece: 03 18:56
*The_Mad_Hatter has quit (" ajax IRC Client")Feb 03 18:57
schestowitz 03 18:58

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