To use your own IRC client, join channel #boycottnovell in FreeNode.
| the same two are in a much tighter, and happier looking, people pile here https://usshop.ubuntu.com/imag... | Mar 12 21:20 | |
| balzac | gay people ought to be represented in marketing campaigns | Mar 12 21:21 |
| I don't look at any of those pictures and imagine the models taking warm showers together | Mar 12 21:21 | |
| balzac | but unless a particular niche market is the focus of the campaign, no particular group should be appear to be the one you're marketing to | Mar 12 21:22 |
| I'm more than a little tired of marketing campaigns | Mar 12 21:23 | |
| balzac | neither do I | Mar 12 21:23 |
| balzac | I'd say the group is a bit too tidy looking as well | Mar 12 21:23 |
| balzac | where's the fat guy, the old guy, the pony-tail? | Mar 12 21:24 |
| balzac | that's a lot of chicks for a software scene | Mar 12 21:24 |
| that's how marketing campaigns are - use this and you will will be happy and healthy | Mar 12 21:24 | |
| balzac | right | Mar 12 21:24 |
| Ubuntu seeks to create community. I can understand how they would like to have pictures of people happy and comfortable with each other. | Mar 12 21:25 | |
| balzac | well, authenticity strikes people more directly | Mar 12 21:26 |
| balzac | it's a little bit contrived | Mar 12 21:27 |
| balzac | I could round up a gaggle of freaks and nerds and it would probably be a lot more representative of Ubuntu users and geeks in general | Mar 12 21:27 |
| balzac | probably, those two dudes were laughing about how silly the combination of the posing and the slogan on the shirts were together. | Mar 12 21:28 |
| balzac | whatever. all I know is that ad made Digg.com squirm. 800+ Diggs | Mar 12 21:29 |
| balzac | http://digg.com/linux_unix... | Mar 12 21:30 |
| balzac | I personally find Digg, as a demographic group is pretty juvenile, but they're pretty well representative of the age and gender demographics of ubuntu as well | Mar 12 21:31 |
| balzac | I suspect debian users are, on average, maybe 7-10 years older than ubuntu users | Mar 12 21:31 |
| balzac | Digg has more ubuntu than debian users, in my estimation | Mar 12 21:31 |
| *_Hicham_ (n=hicham@41.249.52.249) has joined #boycottnovell | Mar 12 21:32 | |
| balzac | I thought naming Fedora "Leonidas" was a bit of a marketing flub as well | Mar 12 21:33 |
| balzac | code-name | Mar 12 21:33 |
| M$ community http://bayimg.com/EaGCLAABL | Mar 12 21:35 | |
| I added the Nazis on the left, but the black shirted wonder twins and horror painting on the right are all part of the original image. | Mar 12 21:36 | |
| yes, I misspelled conformity | Mar 12 21:36 | |
| _Hicham_ | what do u think of Mark Shuttleworth? | Mar 12 21:41 |
| schestowitz | Balrog_: no point writing about the French migration. It's covered widely already. Old news too (last year they announced the migration in AP) | Mar 12 21:47 |
| I don't know Shuttleworth. He says he believes in freedom and wants Ubuntu to be free. I've never heard anything bad about him. | Mar 12 21:47 | |
| here's a little fun for the bayimg vista page http://bayimg.com/dAoeBAaBE | Mar 12 21:48 | |
| balzac | I think Shuttleworth is a natural leader | Mar 12 21:48 |
| balzac | good guy | Mar 12 21:48 |
| balzac | perhaps a bit overly-diplomatic | Mar 12 21:49 |
| balzac | I have the same complaint about Obama, but he's turned out pretty successful | Mar 12 21:49 |
| I liked this image better though, http://bayimg.com/pAhGMaaBi | Mar 12 21:50 | |
| balzac | nice one twitter | Mar 12 21:50 |
| thanks | Mar 12 21:50 | |
| balzac | perfect conformity, world domination, what could go wrong? | Mar 12 21:50 |
| everything | Mar 12 21:51 | |
| ha ha | Mar 12 21:51 | |
| balzac | and pretty uniformly one ethnic group and one gender | Mar 12 21:51 |
| balzac | not much age variation there either | Mar 12 21:51 |
| I see one or two females and a couple of brown guys all technically Caucasian. Can't say much for ethnicity from here but know they all have to worship Bill Gates and greed to wear the black shirt. | Mar 12 21:54 | |
| *Eruaran has quit ("http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.") | Mar 12 21:55 | |
| schestowitz | *LOL* Longhorn academy | Mar 12 21:58 |
| balzac | twitter: you could just be a smart conformist who stumbles into that group | Mar 12 21:59 |
| balzac | they can't all be ambitious pricks, there have to be a few token normal folks | Mar 12 21:59 |
| schestowitz | http://www.bloomberg.com/apps... "Economist Carl B. Shapiro, who endorsed the Clinton administration’s plan to break up Microsoft Corp. as an expert witness, has rejoined the U.S. Justice Department as the antitrust division’s chief economist, people familiar with the appointment said. " | Mar 12 22:00 |
| schestowitz | Tiemann sent me a headsup | Mar 12 22:01 |
| schestowitz | *headsup | Mar 12 22:01 |
| *PetoKraus has quit (Remote closed the connection) | Mar 12 22:02 | |
| *PetoKraus (n=pk@fsf/member/petokraus) has joined #boycottnovell | Mar 12 22:03 | |
| balzac | what about? | Mar 12 22:05 |
| schestowitz | Let's see who stuffs the authorities with more cronies :-) | Mar 12 22:06 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft is trying to poison ObamAA | Mar 12 22:06 |
| schestowitz | Vassallo: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/06/0... | Mar 12 22:06 |
| schestowitz | Varney: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/02/19/chris... | Mar 12 22:06 |
| schestowitz | Barnett: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/... | Mar 12 22:06 |
| balzac | Roy, pass this along to Tiemann, please | Mar 12 22:06 |
| balzac | http://www.oteltours.com/fedora_le... | Mar 12 22:06 |
| balzac | jk | Mar 12 22:06 |
| schestowitz | no | Mar 12 22:06 |
| balzac | I'm taking that down | Mar 12 22:07 |
| balzac | it's too silly | Mar 12 22:07 |
| schestowitz | it is | Mar 12 22:07 |
| schestowitz | kind of kinky | Mar 12 22:07 |
| _Hicham_ | Microsoft will adopt Linux | Mar 12 22:08 |
| _Hicham_ | and provide open source solutions to its customers | Mar 12 22:08 |
| _Hicham_ | since they can't afford to secure the whole crap | Mar 12 22:08 |
| balzac | In 1987, I realized that GNU software was some of the best software to be found anywhere, and that the GNU Manifesto was really a business plan in disguise. | Mar 12 22:08 |
| balzac | from:http://people.redhat.com/tiemann/ | Mar 12 22:09 |
| balzac | smart guy | Mar 12 22:09 |
| balzac | It's a good way to see the inherent opportunity in the GNU Manifesto, although it's more than that. | Mar 12 22:10 |
| schestowitz | Someone mailed me this: | Mar 12 22:11 |
| schestowitz | "Richard A. Epstein is the James Parker Hall Distinguished Service Professor of Law, at the University of Chicago, the Peter and Kirsten Bedford Senior Fellow, the Hoover Institution, and a visiting professor at New York University Law School. He has consulted from time to time with Microsoft. " http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/d28ecf10-fd46... | Mar 12 22:11 |
| schestowitz | Short story: Financial Times Gives Room for Microsoft Drones to Publish Attacks on EU Commission | Mar 12 22:11 |
| schestowitz | opensuse download resorted only just now (2 days later): [opensuse-announce] Update: download.opensuse.org Restored | Mar 12 22:12 |
| MinceR | they might adopt some random *bsd instead | Mar 12 22:13 |
| benJIman | Actually most functionality was restored early yesterday, with a few issues that were resolved today.~ | Mar 12 22:13 |
| MinceR | m$, that is. | Mar 12 22:13 |
| Balrog_ | amazon / kindle mess | Mar 12 22:17 |
| Balrog_ | http://yro.slashdot.org/article... | Mar 12 22:17 |
| Balrog_ | http://www.mobileread.com/forums/sh... | Mar 12 22:17 |
| Balrog_ | this was a tool to allow you to use non-kindle books on kindle (basically mobiread-type ebooks) | Mar 12 22:18 |
| _Hicham_ | http://osnews.com/story/21035/Ballme... | Mar 12 22:18 |
| Balrog_ | _Hicham_: I saw that a week or two ago | Mar 12 22:19 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: Remember that only a few Microsoft products are profitable (and only in wealthy countries where margins eroded too). They now try to sell hardware (shops), patent licences, and services (with limited success). Zune and XBox (DRM on hardware) cost them billions. | Mar 12 22:19 |
| Balrog_ | between Apple and Linux, MS will lose | Mar 12 22:19 |
| schestowitz | I spoke to Bill Parish once and I still talk to Microsoft shareholders. I reckon Bill and Steve bluff a lot. Con artists are a dime a dozen these days. | Mar 12 22:19 |
| schestowitz | Wow, I can't wait to make a post with some new info I got | Mar 12 22:20 |
| schestowitz | http://finance.yahoo.com/q/cq?d... | Mar 12 22:20 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft is in trouble | Mar 12 22:21 |
| MinceR | i hope crApple will lose too | Mar 12 22:21 |
| MinceR | we can't afford to have another microsoft. | Mar 12 22:21 |
| Balrog_ | MinceR: that's not going to happen. | Mar 12 22:21 |
| _Hicham_ | here in Morocco, almost every windows copy is pirated | Mar 12 22:21 |
| schestowitz | "BTW, Morgan Stanley put out a research note reducing their earnings expectations for Microsoft. The note said that the PC industry was going to be down dramatically in 2009 and MSFT wasn't going to sell as much. Look how it affected their stock, and the stocks of others that may be related to such news" | Mar 12 22:21 |
| schestowitz | "I actually think that the idea of an actual enforcer in DOJ, not the reasons given in the MS downgrade, is what's behind MSFT's contrary motion." | Mar 12 22:21 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: yes, in most of the world | Mar 12 22:21 |
| schestowitz | Else, they move to Linux | Mar 12 22:22 |
| schestowitz | Or sell PCs with Linux | Mar 12 22:22 |
| _Hicham_ | in the universities also here | Mar 12 22:22 |
| Balrog_ | Apple will probably get 33% of market share at most [maximum ever], IMO | Mar 12 22:22 |
| _Hicham_ | in the government offices | Mar 12 22:22 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: Apple is too expensive | Mar 12 22:22 |
| _Hicham_ | everything is pirated | Mar 12 22:22 |
| schestowitz | It targets rich people who buy 'dreams' | Mar 12 22:22 |
| _Hicham_ | piracy kills linux | Mar 12 22:22 |
| schestowitz | That's why Microsoft loves counterfeiting | Mar 12 22:22 |
| schestowitz | WIndows is gratis | Mar 12 22:23 |
| MinceR | schestowitz: which could mean that we won't have any choice if we want powerful pcs. | Mar 12 22:23 |
| schestowitz | They charge only if they can fool the costimer | Mar 12 22:23 |
| schestowitz | Or can afford to take her/him to court | Mar 12 22:23 |
| _Hicham_ | I think that we should help Microsoft enforce their anti-piracy policy | Mar 12 22:23 |
| Balrog_ | Apple products still are more polished and mature (talking from a UI and end-user-experience point of view) level | Mar 12 22:23 |
| Balrog_ | _Hicham_: The BSA is nasty | Mar 12 22:23 |
| _Hicham_ | if no one can pirate Windows, sure Linux will win | Mar 12 22:23 |
| MinceR | Balrog_: that's not my experience. | Mar 12 22:23 |
| Balrog_ | MinceR: explain...or do you want a copy of Windows in your OS? :P | Mar 12 22:24 |
| _Hicham_ | BSA is not sufficient | Mar 12 22:24 |
| Balrog_ | (meaning, do you want to have a 'clone' of the Windows-UI) | Mar 12 22:24 |
| MinceR | Balrog_: i've found osx to be extremely limited and their HIG to be bullshit. | Mar 12 22:24 |
| MinceR | even that's preferable to a clone of the macos gui | Mar 12 22:24 |
| schestowitz | BSA: friends of Gates family | Mar 12 22:24 |
| Balrog_ | the HIG descend from the original mac GUI | Mar 12 22:25 |
| schestowitz | People who worked for Billy's dad | Mar 12 22:25 |
| Balrog_ | which MS took from | Mar 12 22:25 |
| _Hicham_ | it is not necessary to copy from an OS | Mar 12 22:25 |
| MinceR | at least they didn't take all the stupidity | Mar 12 22:25 |
| MinceR | and btw apple stole from xerox | Mar 12 22:25 |
| Balrog_ | well, I find it more efficient with the OS X gui and all | Mar 12 22:25 |
| MinceR | let's not pretend apple invented the wheel. | Mar 12 22:25 |
| Balrog_ | Xerox invested in Apple | Mar 12 22:25 |
| Omar87 | Hello everyone. | Mar 12 22:25 |
| MinceR | invested? that's very far from the story i've heard. | Mar 12 22:25 |
| _Hicham_ | Hello Omar! | Mar 12 22:26 |
| Balrog_ | "Xerox invested $1 million in Apple by purchasing 100,000 shares at $10 each. Furthermore, Xerox signed an agreement with Apple to never purchase more than 5 percent of Apple's outstanding shares. Within a year, these shares split into 800,000 worth $17.6 million when Apple went public" | Mar 12 22:26 |
| Omar87 | _Hicham_: Hey! | Mar 12 22:26 |
| Balrog_ | http://www.vectronicsappleworl... | Mar 12 22:26 |
| Balrog_ | I'll find another source if you wish | Mar 12 22:26 |
| Balrog_ | also read folklore.org | Mar 12 22:26 |
| schestowitz | Balrog_: and now MS invests in Apple | Mar 12 22:27 |
| Balrog_ | it says it right in the wikipedia article | Mar 12 22:27 |
| Balrog_ | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A... | Mar 12 22:27 |
| schestowitz | So Microsoft steals from Apple | Mar 12 22:27 |
| Balrog_ | well, MS did invest in apple | Mar 12 22:27 |
| schestowitz | Like Apple 'stole' from Xerox | Mar 12 22:27 |
| Balrog_ | I don't know how it is now | Mar 12 22:27 |
| MinceR | so m$ didn't steal either? | Mar 12 22:27 |
| Balrog_ | MS stole in a different way | Mar 12 22:27 |
| MinceR | how so? | Mar 12 22:27 |
| schestowitz | MS claimed ctredit | Mar 12 22:27 |
| schestowitz | They called it "Windows" | Mar 12 22:27 |
| Balrog_ | actually it turned out to be the stupidity of Apple's CEO | Mar 12 22:27 |
| MinceR | so did apple | Mar 12 22:28 |
| schestowitz | So you'll think they pioneered it :-) | Mar 12 22:28 |
| MinceR | apple keeps claiming credit for all sorts of things they didn't invent | Mar 12 22:28 |
| _Hicham_ | the two Steves love each other | Mar 12 22:28 |
| Balrog_ | back in the late 80's Sculley perpetually licensed the GUI elements to MS | Mar 12 22:28 |
| MinceR | so do the apple fanboys on their behalf | Mar 12 22:28 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: one calls Linux cancer, another Steve has it | Mar 12 22:28 |
| Balrog_ | "Apple came up with a list of 189 GUI elements; the judge decided that 179 of these elements had been licensed to Microsoft in the Windows 1.0 agreement" | Mar 12 22:28 |
| MinceR | schestowitz: lol | Mar 12 22:28 |
| Balrog_ | the rest were obvious or not original to Apple | Mar 12 22:29 |
| Balrog_ | see http://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py... | Mar 12 22:30 |
| schestowitz | Micron goes banandas < http://www.theinquirer.net/inquire... > | Mar 12 22:31 |
| schestowitz | When will apple go bananas too? | Mar 12 22:31 |
| schestowitz | NAND prices up by 90 per cent < http://www.theinquirer.net/inquire... > Deflation. eh? | Mar 12 22:31 |
| schestowitz | brb, I've got to shower | Mar 12 22:31 |
| Balrog_ | Apple needs those 32GB chips | Mar 12 22:32 |
| Balrog_ | here's the page on the UI ideas and PARC | Mar 12 22:32 |
| Balrog_ | http://www.folklore.org/StoryView.p... | Mar 12 22:32 |
| MinceR | how significant was xerox's investment in apple back then, compared to capital apple already had? | Mar 12 22:33 |
| Balrog_ | "When Apple went public a couple years later, Xerox' investment suddenly became worth over $17 million, far more than it made on the Star itself." | Mar 12 22:33 |
| MinceR | that doesn't answer my question | Mar 12 22:34 |
| Balrog_ | I'm trying to find how much aapl was when it went public | Mar 12 22:35 |
| Balrog_ | oh ... how much capital they had? | Mar 12 22:35 |
| MinceR | well, their market cap at the point they went public is probably sufficient | Mar 12 22:35 |
| Balrog_ | they did have good Apple II sales | Mar 12 22:35 |
| MinceR | if we know whether what xerox invested is part of that or not | Mar 12 22:35 |
| Balrog_ | another thing...do you think apple should have 'allowed' people to clone the Mac? | Mar 12 22:37 |
| Balrog_ | I find that not possible, due to the fact that much of the OS was burned-in-ROM and on the logic board | Mar 12 22:38 |
| Balrog_ | MinceR: any good reference for such info? | Mar 12 22:39 |
| Balrog_ | (like historical market cap) | Mar 12 22:40 |
| MinceR | nope -- i've never done such research before | Mar 12 22:40 |
| Balrog_ | ok :/ | Mar 12 22:40 |
| Balrog_ | yeah ... the rom thing was a problem for cloners | Mar 12 22:40 |
| MinceR | i don't know if yahoo or google have such info | Mar 12 22:40 |
| Balrog_ | I looked ... they have prices but not cap | Mar 12 22:40 |
| MinceR | i think cloning the mac would have opened new possibilities for the market | Mar 12 22:41 |
| MinceR | and would have been technically advantageous | Mar 12 22:41 |
| MinceR | but by no means the only way | Mar 12 22:41 |
| Balrog_ | no, the problem was more with Jean-Louis Gasee | Mar 12 22:41 |
| Balrog_ | (if I spelled it right) | Mar 12 22:41 |
| Balrog_ | he felt that macs should be very, very expensive | Mar 12 22:41 |
| MinceR | strange... didn't they have the lisa for that? | Mar 12 22:41 |
| Balrog_ | at one point the price range was $3500 - $12000, if my numbers are right | Mar 12 22:42 |
| Balrog_ | nope, that happened after jobs was kicked out | Mar 12 22:42 |
| Balrog_ | the original mac was $2500, which wasn't that bad for the day | Mar 12 22:42 |
| MinceR | btw, i find the sinclair ql much more interesting than the original mac at that time | Mar 12 22:42 |
| Balrog_ | explain | Mar 12 22:42 |
| Balrog_ | it didn't have resources, fonts, a gui, menus, etc, etc | Mar 12 22:43 |
| MinceR | http://www.qlvsjaguar.homepage.bluewin.ch/... | Mar 12 22:43 |
| MinceR | to me what's most important is that it was the first pc with preemptive multitasking | Mar 12 22:43 |
| MinceR | at a time when most pcs didn't even have multitasking in any form | Mar 12 22:43 |
| MinceR | they did seem to have a gui, too -- though that might have been app-dependent | Mar 12 22:44 |
| Balrog_ | remember ... the mac had 64kb of ROM, 128 kb RAM, and a 400kb disk | Mar 12 22:44 |
| MinceR | and no multitasking | Mar 12 22:45 |
| MinceR | and no colors | Mar 12 22:45 |
| Balrog_ | and you had room for OS, an application, and a few documents in that | Mar 12 22:45 |
| Balrog_ | I'd take the mac's screen of those days over any color screen of those days | Mar 12 22:45 |
| MinceR | the worst thing about the mac was the concept, though | Mar 12 22:45 |
| MinceR | designing a computer for idiots | Mar 12 22:45 |
| schestowitz | Logo too | Mar 12 22:45 |
| schestowitz | An apple a day | Mar 12 22:46 |
| Balrog_ | because the computers of the day were extremely hard to use | Mar 12 22:46 |
| schestowitz | But they spend a lot of marketing now | Mar 12 22:46 |
| schestowitz | 300m per year | Mar 12 22:46 |
| MinceR | i don't remember my sinclair zx spectrum being extremely hard to use :> | Mar 12 22:46 |
| Balrog_ | did you have to type obscure commands? | Mar 12 22:46 |
| MinceR | i had to type commands in basic | Mar 12 22:46 |
| Balrog_ | yeah, that's not what people want | Mar 12 22:47 |
| MinceR | i had a manual, sadly it was in german -- later i got manuals in hungarian | Mar 12 22:47 |
| Balrog_ | people want something you plug in and it works | Mar 12 22:47 |
| MinceR | i don't care what people want, i care about what's powerful and what gets the job done :> | Mar 12 22:47 |
| MinceR | and most importantly, what i want | Mar 12 22:47 |
| Balrog_ | ok, original mac was $2500, the 512k-ram model was $2000 ...... | Mar 12 22:47 |
| Balrog_ | well what about wysiwyg? | Mar 12 22:48 |
| trmanco | http://groups.google.com/group/... | Mar 12 22:48 |
| Balrog_ | what-you-see-is-what-you-get? | Mar 12 22:48 |
| MinceR | and a general-purpose computer will never expose all its functionality just by plugging it in, until it becomes capable of reading the thoughts of the user | Mar 12 22:48 |
| MinceR | wysiwyg is overrated | Mar 12 22:48 |
| Omar87 | Guys, what do you think of those who say that Ubuntu didn't create anything new, and that it's just using what others have made? | Mar 12 22:48 |
| MinceR | Omar87: they're clueless | Mar 12 22:48 |
| Balrog_ | Under Gasee, a mac cost $3700 - $8700 | Mar 12 22:49 |
| Balrog_ | gassee * | Mar 12 22:49 |
| Omar87 | Balrog_: What's a Gassee? | Mar 12 22:49 |
| MinceR | ubuntu created a debian spinoff with recent yet stable packages, a system that's easier to start using and they started using at least one practice that i consider good practice | Mar 12 22:49 |
| Balrog_ | Gassee is a former head of Mac development at Apple | Mar 12 22:50 |
| Balrog_ | from the '80s | Mar 12 22:50 |
| MinceR | sure, they didn't do most of the work -- no one distro did | Mar 12 22:50 |
| Balrog_ | He wrote about Microsoft too | Mar 12 22:51 |
| Balrog_ | http://lists.essential.org/info-po... | Mar 12 22:51 |
| Balrog_ | "Jean-Louis Gassée on why PC manufacturers don't sell non MS products" | Mar 12 22:51 |
| Balrog_ | in 1999 | Mar 12 22:51 |
| MinceR | i think the 'ubuntu didn't do anything' lie comes from novell | Mar 12 22:51 |
| Omar87 | MinceR: Yeah, and I personally believe, that if it weren't for Ubuntu, Linux would have likely never made it to the market at least for ten more years or so. | Mar 12 22:51 |
| MinceR | as they tried to smear the most popular distro | Mar 12 22:51 |
| Balrog_ | good read | Mar 12 22:51 |
| Balrog_ | (he was behind BeOS for a while ... good idea, not very mature/usable though) | Mar 12 22:52 |
| MinceR | sadly, BeOS copied far too little from Unix | Mar 12 22:53 |
| Balrog_ | I'm getting a lot of error-500's these days | Mar 12 22:53 |
| Balrog_ | Jobs was smarter with NEXT | Mar 12 22:53 |
| MinceR | i recall at least one good idea from next | Mar 12 22:53 |
| Balrog_ | when it came to that part | Mar 12 22:53 |
| MinceR | putting the scroll bar buttons next to each other :> | Mar 12 22:53 |
| Balrog_ | I have a cube that I am able to play with | Mar 12 22:53 |
| Balrog_ | MinceR: you know you can turn that on in OS X? | Mar 12 22:53 |
| MinceR | i don't | Mar 12 22:54 |
| MinceR | via property lists? | Mar 12 22:54 |
| Balrog_ | no, Prefs --> Appearance | Mar 12 22:54 |
| Balrog_ | 'Place Scroll Arrows: Together / At top and bottom' | Mar 12 22:54 |
| MinceR | it boggles the mind | Mar 12 22:54 |
| MinceR | how can a single option hide among so few? | Mar 12 22:54 |
| MinceR | anyway, i've turned it on in Qt and GTK+ | Mar 12 22:55 |
| MinceR | :) | Mar 12 22:55 |
| Balrog_ | what other options do you want other than [a] non-unified menubar and [b] mousefocus? | Mar 12 22:55 |
| Balrog_ | (with property lists, you can have both scrollbuttons next to each other on both ends of the scrollbar :P ) | Mar 12 22:55 |
| MinceR | hard to tell | Mar 12 22:56 |
| MinceR | i've tried to gather my thoughts about what i've gotten used to do and take for granted now | Mar 12 22:56 |
| Balrog_ | I personally can't stand mousefocus | Mar 12 22:56 |
| Balrog_ | I can live with a non-unified menubar though | Mar 12 22:56 |
| MinceR | multiple workspaces is a must have | Mar 12 22:56 |
| Balrog_ | OS X has that now | Mar 12 22:57 |
| Balrog_ | up to 16 | Mar 12 22:57 |
| MinceR | so is always on top and sticky | Mar 12 22:57 |
| Balrog_ | MinceR: what on top? | Mar 12 22:57 |
| MinceR | i'd like to have Desktop Wall and Zoom even though my current desktop doesn't have them | Mar 12 22:57 |
| MinceR | making a window stay on top of others even if it doesn't have the focus | Mar 12 22:57 |
| Balrog_ | zoom == Ctrl + scroll | Mar 12 22:57 |
| Balrog_ | ahh that | Mar 12 22:57 |
| Balrog_ | there are some apps that do that. | Mar 12 22:58 |
| _Hicham_ | MinceR : what distro do u use? | Mar 12 22:58 |
| MinceR | also, to mouse focus i'd add bringing the focused window to top if it stays focused for a second and the cursor is over it | Mar 12 22:58 |
| MinceR | kubuntu | Mar 12 22:58 |
| Balrog_ | As I said, I can't stand mousefocus | Mar 12 22:58 |
| Balrog_ | drives me insane | Mar 12 22:58 |
| MinceR | i also use rolling up windows sometimes and minimizing more often | Mar 12 22:58 |
| MinceR | and occasionally turning off window decorations (to save space) | Mar 12 22:59 |
| MinceR | i have a lot of keybindings to operate on windows, icewm-style | Mar 12 22:59 |
| Balrog_ | the thing with mousefocus is that you go somewhere, then start typing ... where is the text going? | Mar 12 22:59 |
| Balrog_ | what if it's a password? | Mar 12 22:59 |
| MinceR | i point it at a window and type | Mar 12 23:00 |
| Balrog_ | and if the mouse somehow gets moved? | Mar 12 23:00 |
| MinceR | also, passwords bring us to another thing: focus stealing prevention | Mar 12 23:00 |
| Balrog_ | (I've had problems with that) | Mar 12 23:01 |
| MinceR | it doesn't get moved, i control it | Mar 12 23:01 |
| Balrog_ | Focus stealing prevention is a problem with terminals | Mar 12 23:01 |
| MinceR | how so? | Mar 12 23:01 |
| Balrog_ | how will the system prevent focus stealing when a terminal wants you to enter a password | Mar 12 23:02 |
| Balrog_ | s/terminal/an app in terminal, like ssh | Mar 12 23:02 |
| MinceR | my terminals don't grab the keyboard aggressively, afaik | Mar 12 23:02 |
| Balrog_ | but if you think you're in terminal and something else does... | Mar 12 23:02 |
| Balrog_ | you're screwed | Mar 12 23:02 |
| MinceR | i tend to know where the focus is | Mar 12 23:03 |
| MinceR | especially considering that the terminal has a different cursor if it doesn't have the focus | Mar 12 23:03 |
| Balrog_ | OK | Mar 12 23:03 |
| MinceR | see, i'm not an apple user, i know what's going on | Mar 12 23:03 |
| MinceR | :> | Mar 12 23:03 |
| schestowitz | trmanco: lies, damn lies, and MS benchmarks/TCO | Mar 12 23:03 |
| Balrog_ | I use Linux as well | Mar 12 23:03 |
| Balrog_ | never with mousefocus though | Mar 12 23:03 |
| Balrog_ | I used to use Windows back in the day | Mar 12 23:03 |
| MinceR | i didn't like mousefocus until beryl made me try | Mar 12 23:03 |
| Balrog_ | as I said, mousefocus drives me mad | Mar 12 23:03 |
| MinceR | i prefer it now :) | Mar 12 23:04 |
| trmanco | schestowitz, ahh, it's already spread, awesome | Mar 12 23:04 |
| Balrog_ | trmanco: link? | Mar 12 23:04 |
| MinceR | it means less clicking, basically | Mar 12 23:04 |
| trmanco | Balrog_, http://groups.google.com/group/co... | Mar 12 23:04 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: it means more | Mar 12 23:04 |
| MinceR | also, i can just point at a window and use hotkeys with the same ease as clicking on their window | Mar 12 23:04 |
| MinceR | schestowitz: it means less, actually | Mar 12 23:04 |
| schestowitz | It means move the hand to the mouse just to fling it | Mar 12 23:04 |
| MinceR | no clicking to focus a window to start typing | Mar 12 23:05 |
| schestowitz | From one screen/app to another | Mar 12 23:05 |
| schestowitz | If you typo | Mar 12 23:05 |
| schestowitz | *type | Mar 12 23:05 |
| MinceR | i can switch focus from the keyboard too | Mar 12 23:05 |
| Balrog_ | alt-tab | Mar 12 23:05 |
| schestowitz | alt+key | Mar 12 23:05 |
| schestowitz | orsuper | Mar 12 23:05 |
| MinceR | indeed | Mar 12 23:05 |
| Balrog_ | on mac, you have cmd-tab between apps and cmd-~ within apps | Mar 12 23:05 |
| Balrog_ | much more organized, IMO | Mar 12 23:05 |
| schestowitz | or alt+tab+shift | Mar 12 23:05 |
| MinceR | i think that within app thing is rarely what i want | Mar 12 23:06 |
| Balrog_ | why can't others do something like that, and rather treat each windows as a separate app...? | Mar 12 23:06 |
| MinceR | i tend to organize windows by task, not by app | Mar 12 23:06 |
| Balrog_ | you can organize windows by task | Mar 12 23:06 |
| MinceR | i tend to have GVIM windows spread all over my environment | Mar 12 23:06 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: same here | Mar 12 23:06 |
| schestowitz | Easy to remember this way | Mar 12 23:06 |
| MinceR | also, konsole windows | Mar 12 23:06 |
| schestowitz | translucent? | Mar 12 23:06 |
| Balrog_ | mine are translucent | Mar 12 23:07 |
| MinceR | pseudo-transparent currently | Mar 12 23:07 |
| MinceR | i'll upgrade from gutsy once i can find the time to backup my laptop and do the upgrade | Mar 12 23:07 |
| MinceR | then i'll probably have kde4 and start using that | Mar 12 23:07 |
| schestowitz | Conficker getting bigger and meaner but BitDefender’s free disinfection tool is here to help! < http://www.itwire.com/conte... > | Mar 12 23:09 |
| schestowitz | Some people get apps that do stuff | Mar 12 23:09 |
| schestowitz | Windows gets apps that undo stufff | Mar 12 23:09 |
| MinceR | :) | Mar 12 23:09 |
| _Hicham_ | MinceR : it is not necessary to backup | Mar 12 23:10 |
| _Hicham_ | I always do a dist upgrade | Mar 12 23:10 |
| Balrog_ | what?!?!?! | Mar 12 23:10 |
| MinceR | i still don't trust ubuntu to upgrade safely | Mar 12 23:10 |
| _Hicham_ | since 6.04 | Mar 12 23:10 |
| Balrog_ | reboot with knoppix or your favorite diag disc | Mar 12 23:10 |
| _Hicham_ | till now 8.10 | Mar 12 23:10 |
| MinceR | 2 upgrades were problematic. they didn't break but i had to manually kick apt through the process after the updater failed. | Mar 12 23:11 |
| Balrog_ | then dd if=/dev/hda | gzip > /path/to/backup.image | Mar 12 23:11 |
| Balrog_ | easy enough. | Mar 12 23:11 |
| MinceR | i'm going to boot a livedvd and do that | Mar 12 23:11 |
| MinceR | when i have the time :) | Mar 12 23:11 |
| _Hicham_ | MinceR : I can see why it failed | Mar 12 23:11 |
| MinceR | (and make sure it's unmounted or mounted readonly, of course) | Mar 12 23:11 |
| MinceR | probably because i have lots of extra packages installed. | Mar 12 23:11 |
| Balrog_ | make sure you boot noswap too | Mar 12 23:11 |
| MinceR | but it shouldn't have | Mar 12 23:11 |
| Balrog_ | knoppix noswap | Mar 12 23:12 |
| Balrog_ | for knoppix | Mar 12 23:12 |
| _Hicham_ | basically the updater downloads packages, then installs them | Mar 12 23:12 |
| MinceR | Balrog_: why? i don't backup my swap partition | Mar 12 23:12 |
| _Hicham_ | it is not too risky | Mar 12 23:12 |
| balzac, at this point, anyone who knows how to program has to live with their hands in their ears or have a moral problem to work for M$ | Mar 12 23:12 | |
| Balrog_ | then you should be ok | Mar 12 23:12 |
| Balrog_ | twitter: explain | Mar 12 23:12 |
| balzac | ? | Mar 12 23:12 |
| _Hicham_ | twitter : what do u mean? | Mar 12 23:12 |
| _Hicham_ | it is not bad to port apps to windows | Mar 12 23:12 |
| MinceR | many people don't even know what "moral" is | Mar 12 23:13 |
| _Hicham_ | i always do it | Mar 12 23:13 |
| Balrog_ | MinceR: what else do you know about NEXT? Did you ever use a NEXT computer? | Mar 12 23:13 |
| Balrog_ | or the OS? | Mar 12 23:13 |
| MinceR | we live in a cult of the Almighty Money. | Mar 12 23:13 |
| MinceR | Balrog_: i know that's where darwin started and that Doom was developed on/for next before it was ported to dos | Mar 12 23:13 |
| _Hicham_ | Ubuntu 9.04 is said to be fast | Mar 12 23:13 |
| MinceR | (so the ripoff osx is based on started somewhere in the next times) | Mar 12 23:14 |
| _Hicham_ | i don't know if I should test it on my computer | Mar 12 23:14 |
| _Hicham_ | basically there is nothing to fear | Mar 12 23:14 |
| Balrog_ | I wouldn't call OS X a ripoff .. why do you? | Mar 12 23:14 |
| _Hicham_ | but there was some serious hardware problems | Mar 12 23:14 |
| _Hicham_ | like the recent beta Ubuntu 8.10 that killed dead many ethernet cards | Mar 12 23:15 |
| schestowitz | MinceR < we live in a cult of the Almighty Money. > | Mar 12 23:15 |
| _Hicham_ | that is a real problem | Mar 12 23:15 |
| schestowitz | Not anymore | Mar 12 23:15 |
| MinceR | Balrog_: because apple parades around about how secure and stable it is, when they didn't do any of the work that led there | Mar 12 23:15 |
| Balrog_ | you mean totally bricked? | Mar 12 23:15 |
| schestowitz | We've lived in debt culutre | Mar 12 23:15 |
| Balrog_ | oh, apple did a lot of work | Mar 12 23:15 |
| MinceR | and they gave little to nothing back to the community | Mar 12 23:15 |
| schestowitz | Not it's depression | Mar 12 23:15 |
| MinceR | and then we get oppression through the BSA and other means | Mar 12 23:15 |
| Balrog_ | the security fixes that took place between 10.2 and 10.4 were important | Mar 12 23:15 |
| MinceR | apple is pushing sw patents | Mar 12 23:15 |
| MinceR | wow, they ported fixes and patched what they've broken? | Mar 12 23:16 |
| schestowitz | Treu | Mar 12 23:16 |
| schestowitz | Did you see Apple's latest mischieft? | Mar 12 23:16 |
| schestowitz | Wait | Mar 12 23:16 |
| MinceR | (they didn't really hurry with the porting, though -- see BIND) | Mar 12 23:16 |
| schestowitz | Apple's patent exclusion could roil Web standards | Mar 12 23:16 |
| schestowitz | On March 5 Apple dropped a small bombshell on the World Wide Web Consortium (W3C) standards body, excluding one of its patents from the W3C Royalty-Free License commitment of the W3C Patent Policy for Widgets 1.0. The patent in question covers automatic updates to a client computer in a networked operating environment. | Mar 12 23:16 |
| schestowitz | http://news.cnet.com/8301... | Mar 12 23:16 |
| MinceR | also, apple is doing a lot of patent FUD nowadays | Mar 12 23:16 |
| schestowitz | These guys really turns FOSS into something 'unsexy': http://blogs.the451group.com/opensource/200... | Mar 12 23:16 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: yes | Mar 12 23:16 |
| MinceR | so i think they should screw themselves | Mar 12 23:17 |
| schestowitz | They learned from Steves[sic] | Mar 12 23:17 |
| Balrog_ | we'll see | Mar 12 23:17 |
| MinceR | and the fanboys who believe the 'we're teh omg-FLOSS company' lies from apple should do a reality check. | Mar 12 23:17 |
| Balrog_ | but they are working with Sun | Mar 12 23:17 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: read that CNET Asay article | Mar 12 23:17 |
| schestowitz | He sucks up to Apple | Mar 12 23:17 |
| schestowitz | A | Mar 12 23:17 |
| MinceR | schestowitz: i know | Mar 12 23:17 |
| schestowitz | Characterising them as a FOSS player | Mar 12 23:17 |
| schestowitz | Wishful thnking | Mar 12 23:17 |
| MinceR | as i've said before, he's a bitch of apple. | Mar 12 23:18 |
| MinceR | :> | Mar 12 23:18 |
| schestowitz | "hey, I use Apple, I like FOSS, leave! Apple! Alone!" | Mar 12 23:18 |
| schestowitz | But, but... DRM... | Mar 12 23:18 |
| schestowitz | Asay:LALALALALALALA! I can't hear you | Mar 12 23:18 |
| MinceR | schestowitz: i don't think the depression changed anything about the Cult of the Almighty Money | Mar 12 23:18 |
| Balrog_ | I smell prior art | Mar 12 23:18 |
| Balrog_ | with this patent | Mar 12 23:18 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: true | Mar 12 23:18 |
| schestowitz | Not they are hopefuls | Mar 12 23:18 |
| schestowitz | Like DisneyWorld | Mar 12 23:18 |
| schestowitz | Now they are Cinderlla | Mar 12 23:19 |
| schestowitz | In the early days | Mar 12 23:19 |
| schestowitz | Cinderella | Mar 12 23:19 |
| Balrog_ | really prior art | Mar 12 23:19 |
| MinceR | hm, that web standard issue reminds me of when apple sabotaged the <video> element in html5 | Mar 12 23:19 |
| MinceR | together with nokia | Mar 12 23:19 |
| schestowitz | Yes | Mar 12 23:19 |
| schestowitz | I thought it was that initially | Mar 12 23:19 |
| schestowitz | 'Too' free | Mar 12 23:19 |
| Balrog_ | meaning ogg | Mar 12 23:19 |
| schestowitz | Not good | Mar 12 23:20 |
| Balrog_ | ? | Mar 12 23:20 |
| schestowitz | Not DRM.. bad. | Mar 12 23:20 |
| schestowitz | Balrog_: yes | Mar 12 23:20 |
| MinceR | yes, ogg theora as a recommended codec that all browsers should support | Mar 12 23:20 |
| schestowitz | http://www.w3.org/2007/08/video/... | Mar 12 23:20 |
| MinceR | they couldn't have that as it doesn't have DRM | Mar 12 23:20 |
| Balrog_ | well, tests of ogg theora vs. h.264 show that h.264 quality is much better | Mar 12 23:20 |
| schestowitz | Stephan Wenger, Nokia: "Compatibility with DRM. We understand that this could be a sore point in W3C, but from our viewpoint, any DRM-incompatible video related mechanism is a non-starter with the content industry (Hollywood)." | Mar 12 23:20 |
| Balrog_ | or rather, quality-to-size ration | Mar 12 23:20 |
| Balrog_ | ratio * | Mar 12 23:20 |
| MinceR | (shows how much of Jobs claiming he doesn't want DRM is true) | Mar 12 23:20 |
| Balrog_ | the only DRM that h.264 has is in the app store | Mar 12 23:21 |
| MinceR | Balrog_: h.264 is patent-encumbered, isn't it? | Mar 12 23:21 |
| Balrog_ | err, itunes storee | Mar 12 23:21 |
| schestowitz | Apps store reminds me of candy store | Mar 12 23:21 |
| Balrog_ | store * | Mar 12 23:21 |
| schestowitz | Apps wrapped up in bonbon boxes | Mar 12 23:21 |
| MinceR | which makes it ineligible for a web standard | Mar 12 23:21 |
| schestowitz | Stephan Wenger used to work for Microsoft | Mar 12 23:22 |
| Balrog_ | two of its patents were ruled unenforceble | Mar 12 23:22 |
| schestowitz | He thinks that Web needs DRM | Mar 12 23:22 |
| MinceR | (and no RAND bullshit, thank-you-very-much) | Mar 12 23:22 |
| Balrog_ | unenforceable | Mar 12 23:22 |
| schestowitz | What would timbl say? | Mar 12 23:22 |
| Balrog_ | * | Mar 12 23:22 |
| MinceR | Balrog_: that leaves how many? | Mar 12 23:23 |
| trmanco | wtf -> http://pdb.finkproject.org... | Mar 12 23:25 |
| trmanco | Description: Stupid content tracker (1.6.1-1) | Mar 12 23:25 |
| MinceR | that's the official description of Git | Mar 12 23:25 |
| trmanco | This is a stupid (but extremely fast) directory content manager. It doesn't do a whole lot, but what it _does_ do is track directory contents efficiently. | Mar 12 23:25 |
| Balrog_ | git == stupid person | Mar 12 23:25 |
| Balrog_ | not? | Mar 12 23:25 |
| MinceR | yes | Mar 12 23:25 |
| trmanco | no | Mar 12 23:25 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: it's called git | Mar 12 23:26 |
| schestowitz | What would you expect? | Mar 12 23:26 |
| trmanco | Linus says whoever use VS or SVN are stupid. | Mar 12 23:26 |
| schestowitz | "lame" | Mar 12 23:26 |
| schestowitz | acronym, I know | Mar 12 23:26 |
| trmanco | uses* CVS* | Mar 12 23:26 |
| Balrog_ | NO!!!!! | Mar 12 23:26 |
| MinceR | i see the main website use both "Git" and "git" | Mar 12 23:26 |
| Balrog_ | if you want to use CVS, use SVN instead | Mar 12 23:26 |
| Balrog_ | more modern implementation | Mar 12 23:26 |
| MinceR | "I'm an egotistical bastard, and I name all my projects after myself. First Linux, now git." | Mar 12 23:27 |
| MinceR | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Git_(s... | Mar 12 23:27 |
| Balrog_ | Linus says it has the same problems as CVS though | Mar 12 23:27 |
| MinceR | Subversion is just a better reimplementation of the CVS model | Mar 12 23:27 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: sounds like RMS-esque choice | Mar 12 23:27 |
| trmanco | I use Git and Bazaar | Mar 12 23:27 |
| schestowitz | geek humour | Mar 12 23:27 |
| MinceR | i think it's funny | Mar 12 23:27 |
| schestowitz | trmanco: that's bizarre | Mar 12 23:27 |
| trmanco | maybe Mercurial in the future | Mar 12 23:27 |
| MinceR | i use Git and tla | Mar 12 23:27 |
| trmanco | schestowitz, bizarre? | Mar 12 23:28 |
| MinceR | (though only git for personal projects) | Mar 12 23:28 |
| MinceR | bizarre bazaar? | Mar 12 23:28 |
| Balrog_ | bzr | Mar 12 23:28 |
| trmanco | never heard of TLA | Mar 12 23:28 |
| Balrog_ | what about Monotone? | Mar 12 23:28 |
| trmanco | ahh | Mar 12 23:28 |
| schestowitz | Playful | Mar 12 23:28 |
| MinceR | TLA is another distributed vcs | Mar 12 23:28 |
| schestowitz | Can't recall what RMS calls it | Mar 12 23:28 |
| schestowitz | Playful somehing | Mar 12 23:28 |
| *trmanco got git push 'ed | Mar 12 23:28 | |
| MinceR | it's slow and it works with text patches mostly | Mar 12 23:28 |
| trmanco | origin master | Mar 12 23:28 |
| trmanco | all patches are text | Mar 12 23:29 |
| MinceR | and after knowing the power of Git, it's really a pain to use :> | Mar 12 23:29 |
| schestowitz | "enjoying playful cleverness" | Mar 12 23:29 |
| schestowitz | That's it | Mar 12 23:29 |
| Balrog_ | I hear that monotone [mtn] is really slow | Mar 12 23:29 |
| MinceR | trmanco: it does store the full file sometimes though, doesn't it? | Mar 12 23:29 |
| MinceR | there's that "pristine" thing i don't fully know :) | Mar 12 23:30 |
| trmanco | MinceR, which one? | Mar 12 23:30 |
| MinceR | TLA | Mar 12 23:30 |
| trmanco | I dunno | Mar 12 23:30 |
| trmanco | I also use git gui and gitk | Mar 12 23:30 |
| MinceR | i use them too, also qgit | Mar 12 23:31 |
| MinceR | (actually i prefer qgit to gitk because it's prettier) | Mar 12 23:31 |
| trmanco | I'm still to human to read diffs in black and green | Mar 12 23:31 |
| MinceR | :) | Mar 12 23:31 |
| MinceR | kompare might help | Mar 12 23:31 |
| trmanco | MinceR, yes, gitk has a strange UI... its made out of TCL/TK | Mar 12 23:31 |
| MinceR | indeed | Mar 12 23:32 |
| trmanco | looks like crap, but useful | Mar 12 23:32 |
| MinceR | :) | Mar 12 23:32 |
| MinceR | and git gui is awesome | Mar 12 23:32 |
| trmanco | yeah | Mar 12 23:32 |
| balzac | lart | Mar 12 23:33 |
| MinceR | no u | Mar 12 23:33 |
| schestowitz | Groklaw RSS feed are finally working again. | Mar 12 23:34 |
| Balrog_ | ATSC digital TV has patents on it | Mar 12 23:34 |
| schestowitz | Apple dissed: Linux, Microsoft and Sun to discuss the future of operating systems, but where's Apple? < http://www.tgdaily.com/html_tmp/content... > | Mar 12 23:34 |
| balzac | that's kinda lame | Mar 12 23:34 |
| balzac | it's like the UN Security Council, if they don't consider you a threat, you can't come | Mar 12 23:35 |
| Balrog_ | heh | Mar 12 23:35 |
| Balrog_ | that's not a good thing, because they're ignoring a possible threat | Mar 12 23:35 |
| Balrog_ | but then again, apple has their own ideas | Mar 12 23:36 |
| trmanco | time to go, cya guys | Mar 12 23:36 |
| balzac | later | Mar 12 23:36 |
| balzac | why would the Linux Foundation guy be meeting with Microsoft reps? | Mar 12 23:37 |
| balzac | what is the point? | Mar 12 23:37 |
| balzac | and how does Sun relate? | Mar 12 23:38 |
| schestowitz | *ping* Smari | Mar 12 23:38 |
| benJIman | Sun & OpenSolaris | Mar 12 23:40 |
| MinceR | "where's Apple?" << obviously, they'll grab the BSDL-ed code once it's ready and claim they've invented the whole thing | Mar 12 23:41 |
| balzac | heheh | Mar 12 23:41 |
| Balrog__ | a lot of their code is from NEXT and a lot is original | Mar 12 23:42 |
| Balrog__ | yes, a lot is BSDL too | Mar 12 23:42 |
| balzac | Jim Zemlin is there as a moderator | Mar 12 23:42 |
| MinceR | and a lot of the code in NeXT isn't theirs either :> | Mar 12 23:42 |
| balzac | that's funny | Mar 12 23:42 |
| Balrog__ | which code in NeXT? | Mar 12 23:42 |
| Balrog__ | the kernel and all? much is BSDL, but not all | Mar 12 23:42 |
| Balrog__ | definitely not the stuff that led to Cocoa | Mar 12 23:42 |
| MinceR | mach and some random *bsd | Mar 12 23:43 |
| Balrog__ | that differentiates OS X from other UNIX | Mar 12 23:43 |
| *Balrog__ is now known as Balrog | Mar 12 23:43 | |
| balzac | you know what this event is? | Mar 12 23:43 |
| balzac | it's a circle-jerk | Mar 12 23:43 |
| MinceR | yeah, crap is what differentiates osx from real Unix :> | Mar 12 23:43 |
| MinceR | oh, that explains why apple isn't there -- they do it in a closed system. :> | Mar 12 23:44 |
| balzac | right, apple wanks in solitude | Mar 12 23:44 |
| MinceR | who's Jim Zemlin? | Mar 12 23:44 |
| balzac | Linux Foundation guy | Mar 12 23:44 |
| MinceR | not in solitude -- rather, in the circle of their fanboys | Mar 12 23:44 |
| Balrog | Cocoa is something OS X has that others don't | Mar 12 23:45 |
| balzac | the analogy is losing it's meaning | Mar 12 23:45 |
| MinceR | not that others really need it | Mar 12 23:45 |
| balzac | All I'm saying is that OS summit is a wank-fest | Mar 12 23:45 |
| balzac | There's ego involved, I know that much | Mar 12 23:45 |
| MinceR | what i'd ask is what is m$ doing there | Mar 12 23:46 |
| balzac | Probably it's for two humbled proprietary software vendors to acknowledge reality in a controlled environment which will protect their egos. | Mar 12 23:46 |
| MinceR | other than wasting precious oxygen | Mar 12 23:46 |
| balzac | not fully acknowledge reality, but make baby-steps in that direction | Mar 12 23:46 |
| balzac | Sun was humbled by GNU some time ago, and now it still clings to OpenSolaris | Mar 12 23:47 |
| MinceR | ic | Mar 12 23:47 |
| balzac | that's not bad, the license isn't terrible | Mar 12 23:47 |
| Balrog | OpenSolaris is CDDL anyway... | Mar 12 23:47 |
| balzac | Now Microsoft is the new one in the support group | Mar 12 23:47 |
| schestowitz | balzac: agreed, I hate that meeting too | Mar 12 23:47 |
| balzac | CDDL - shoulda been GPLv3 | Mar 12 23:47 |
| schestowitz | They even invited the anti-Linux infiltrators | Mar 12 23:47 |
| schestowitz | "infiltrator" not being my word | Mar 12 23:47 |
| schestowitz | I heard people who spoke to the Sam Ramji shill use it | Mar 12 23:48 |
| balzac | yep, so much pomp and ceremony has to be for the purpose of protecting the egos of people whos heads are up their asses. | Mar 12 23:48 |
| schestowitz | Suing Linux while trying to steal FOSS devs with bribes | Mar 12 23:48 |
| schestowitz | To Linux: pay us | Mar 12 23:48 |
| schestowitz | To FOSS devs: here's incentive, dump Linux | Mar 12 23:48 |
| MinceR | CDDL is sun's way of saying they're frustrated by the success of GNU and Linux | Mar 12 23:48 |
| MinceR | and of showing that they're hostile | Mar 12 23:49 |
| balzac | Well, they considered GPLv3 | Mar 12 23:49 |
| balzac | and Linus Torvalds said "we'll upgrade to GPLv3 as well and we'll get your code" | Mar 12 23:49 |
| balzac | (paraphrasing) | Mar 12 23:49 |
| balzac | and so they went CDDL instead | Mar 12 23:49 |
| MinceR | a pity | Mar 12 23:49 |
| balzac | because they couldn't stand the idea of getting assimilated by GNU/Linux | Mar 12 23:49 |
| MinceR | it would be a win in itself to convince Linus to switch to GPLv3 :) | Mar 12 23:49 |
| balzac | and then Linus Torvalds clings to his security blanket - not upgrading to GPLv3 | Mar 12 23:50 |
| balzac | That's his line in the sand | Mar 12 23:50 |
| Balrog | Linus should switch to GPLv3 | Mar 12 23:50 |
| balzac | because he's still convinced that he's the "Neo" of this matrix. | Mar 12 23:50 |
| balzac | But no, RMS is NEO in this matrix. | Mar 12 23:50 |
| Balrog | that would help prevent any more MS-Novell type deals | Mar 12 23:50 |
| MinceR | gn | Mar 12 23:53 |
| schestowitz | Balrog: +1 | Mar 12 23:53 |
| balzac | later MinceR | Mar 12 23:53 |
| balzac | indeed | Mar 12 23:53 |
| Balrog | RMS will be at my university later this month | Mar 12 23:53 |
| Balrog | I'll should get to speak to him in person | Mar 12 23:54 |
| Balrog | s/I'll/I | Mar 12 23:54 |
| you could just email him | Mar 12 23:55 | |
| balzac | Why doesn't Linus Torvalds upgrade to GPLv3? | Mar 12 23:55 |
| $ | Mar 12 23:55 | |
| balzac | Balrog: do both. | Mar 12 23:55 |
| Balrog | I'll see. I always like talking to people in person | Mar 12 23:55 |
| Balrog | does RMS respond to all email? | Mar 12 23:55 |
| yes | Mar 12 23:55 | |
| balzac | quite a bit of mine | Mar 12 23:55 |
| balzac | I doubt Linus Torvalds would respond to an email | Mar 12 23:56 |
| schestowitz | Balrog: there's already too much about the migration: http://linux.slashdot.org/article... http://www.crunchgear.com/2009/03/12/fren... | Mar 12 23:56 |
| schestowitz | No point in making more noise | Mar 12 23:56 |
| schestowitz | It's not news | Mar 12 23:56 |
| RMS has made advocacy his mission. | Mar 12 23:56 | |
| schestowitz | It's just the numbers from OSOR | Mar 12 23:56 |
| schestowitz | That's the news | Mar 12 23:56 |
| schestowitz | Some numbers, maybe quotes | Mar 12 23:56 |
| schestowitz | The news is from 2008 | Mar 12 23:56 |
| schestowitz | French police deal blow to Microsoft < http://afp.google.com/article/AL... > | Mar 12 23:57 |
| schestowitz | AFP probably broke the news at the time | Mar 12 23:57 |
| Balrog | I posted that here a while ago | Mar 12 23:57 |
| schestowitz | IIRC, Pearly gates was meeting the Mayor of Paris at the time to shove a nickle up his *. | Mar 12 23:57 |
| Balrog | when it appeared on slashdot | Mar 12 23:57 |
| schestowitz | He prevented schools from moving to Linux too | Mar 12 23:57 |
| Balrog | but yeah, that's really going back | Mar 12 23:57 |
| schestowitz | He 'agreed' with the mayor to do the dumping routine | Mar 12 23:58 |
| schestowitz | Then he want to Dubai/UAE and did the same thing around the same time | Mar 12 23:58 |
| schestowitz | I put it in BN to be documented | Mar 12 23:58 |
| ah ha, Dina Bass comes through again. http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p... | Mar 12 23:58 | |
| schestowitz | http://boycottnovell.com/... | Mar 12 23:58 |
| schestowitz | Bah!s | Mar 12 23:59 |
| I'd read some stupid shill article pointing to bloomberg. I should have known the source was better. | Mar 12 23:59 | |
| schestowitz | twitter: oldish news | Mar 12 23:59 |
| schestowitz | I posted this in some places earlier | Mar 12 23:59 |
| schestowitz | It's actually not good for Vista7 | Mar 12 23:59 |
