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Sun Microsystems and SirsiDynix Libel GNU/Linux and Free Software

Evil faces on pillar

Summary: Two companies are shown for their smears of Free software competitors, one using a leak (probably disgruntled employee) and another using a former employee

OUR READER David Gerard has found this new addition to Wikileaks. Titled "SirsiDynix Corp restricted lobby paper against Open Source technologies," the paper contained therein shows an ongoing slander of Free software and it is summarised as follows:

This document was released only to a select number of existing customers of the company SirsiDynix, a proprietary library automation software vendor. It has not been released more broadly specifically because of the misinformation about open source software and possible libel per se against certain competitors contained therein.

SirsiDynix is currently embroiled in a lawsuit with one of the largest public libraries in the U.S. (Queens Borough, NY) and this document does illustrate the less-than-ethical nature of this company. The source states that the document should be leaked so that everyone can see to what extent SirsiDynix will attempt to spread falsehoods and smear open source and the proponents of open source.

In other news, just two hours ago Pawel let us know that a former Sun employee (and one of the developers of ZFS) is spreading lies about GNU/Linux. We append the communication below for those who wish to read it in isolation.

pawel_pfkhelloOct 30 09:35
pawel_pfkI found sun is spreading FUD about LinuxOct 30 09:35
pawel_pfkit's probably part of solaris 10 advertisementOct 30 09:35
pawel_pfklast time it was Bonwick, but Dave - Linux dev wrote response on his blog to Bonwick's liesOct 30 09:36
pawel_pfk 30 09:36
pawel_pfkand now, it's some other maggotOct 30 09:36
pawel_pfk:Oct 30 09:36
pawel_pfk 30 09:36
phIRCe-localTitle: Solaris vs Linux .::. Size~: 24.86 KBOct 30 09:36
pawel_pfkhe repeats Bonwick bull, but ads more textOct 30 09:37
*pawel_pfk has quit (Remote closed the connection)Oct 30 09:42
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pawel_pfkis there possibility to post article about this?Oct 30 09:45
schestowitzHeyOct 30 09:46
schestowitzLet me seeOct 30 09:46
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] No #Yahoo for #Microsoft, #CarlIcahn Sued by #GoldmanSachs 30 09:46
phIRCe-localTitle: No Yahoo! for Microsoft, Carl Icahn Sued by Goldman Sachs | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 114.43 KBOct 30 09:47
*oiaohm (n=oiaohm@unaffiliated/oiaohm) has joined #boycottnovellOct 30 09:47
schestowitzpawel_pfk: is this a new thing?Oct 30 09:47
schestowitzIt looks like older stuffOct 30 09:47
pawel_pfkyes, it's from current yearOct 30 09:47
pawel_pfkafaik it's written article is made since 2005Oct 30 09:48
pawel_pfkit seems it's still in 'production'Oct 30 09:49
pawel_pfkthey even quote m$ Balmer there and encourage to read windows evangelism documentsOct 30 09:51
pawel_pfkit's aimed directly against LinuxOct 30 09:51
pawel_pfkCreated Jan 2, 2005.  Last modified: September 15, 2009Oct 30 09:52
oiaohmBalmer fear of Linux is justified.  Remember Unix guys at one point said that Linux could never take over there markets due to not being able to match what there full time developers were doing.Oct 30 09:52
pawel_pfkso quite newOct 30 09:52
pawel_pfksun wants to make more mony on dying cow which Solaris is :>Oct 30 09:53
pawel_pfkmoney*Oct 30 09:53
pawel_pfkit always attacks Linux - remember Solaris is better Linux than Linux campaign?Oct 30 09:54
oiaohmFor a time that was true pawel_pfkOct 30 09:54
pawel_pfkmaybe :)Oct 30 09:55
oiaohmSolaris was the techincally strongest of all the Unix's.Oct 30 09:55
pawel_pfkyep, but it was quite long agoOct 30 09:55
oiaohmStill has some techincal advantages over Linux.Oct 30 09:55
pawel_pfkyep, ZFS and DTraceOct 30 09:55
oiaohmBut they are fading fast.Oct 30 09:55
pawel_pfkbut this article is full of bullOct 30 09:56
oiaohm2.6.32 mostly takes out DtraceOct 30 09:56
pawel_pfktypical marceting crap in this caseOct 30 09:56
pawel_pfkI know :>Oct 30 09:56
oiaohmYou forget zones pawel_pfkOct 30 09:56
oiaohmLinux kernel is still working on catching up with them.Oct 30 09:56
pawel_pfkoiaohm: yes, but they're working on themOct 30 09:56
pawel_pfkin few areas onlyOct 30 09:57
pawel_pfklike zones and fsOct 30 09:57
oiaohmOthere area is management software.Oct 30 09:57
pawel_pfkwhen comes to scallability Linux ownsOct 30 09:57
oiaohmLinux management software still needs more work.Oct 30 09:57
pawel_pfkok, but let's not make a flame here :)Oct 30 09:57
oiaohmBut that is the list.Oct 30 09:58
pawel_pfkif you'll read this article you'll see there are many liesOct 30 09:58
oiaohmLink to artical.Oct 30 09:58
oiaohmI entered after link being said here I guess.Oct 30 09:58
pawel_pfk 30 09:58
phIRCe-localTitle: Solaris vs Linux .::. Size~: 24.86 KBOct 30 09:58
pawel_pfkand Linux dev response to previous bull:Oct 30 09:59
pawel_pfk 30 09:59
pawel_pfksun definetly wants to rise solaris 10 sales by spreading FUD about LinuxOct 30 10:00
pawel_pfkits advertisements are everywhere - phoronix, (lol) and at some other sidesOct 30 10:01
pawel_pfksites* sorryOct 30 10:01
oiaohmThat is a older document reposted ie solaris vs LinuxOct 30 10:02
pawel_pfkit's updated in september 09Oct 30 10:02
oiaohm2005 is not when I first saw it.Oct 30 10:02
oiaohmYear 2000 I saw that document.Oct 30 10:02
pawel_pfkalright :)Oct 30 10:02
oiaohmIn the context of year 2000 most of it is correct.Oct 30 10:03
pawel_pfkI found it yesterday and I thought it's from current yearOct 30 10:03
pawel_pfkhowever, they mentioned btrfs thereOct 30 10:03
oiaohmIts really lacking in corrections to keep it update.Oct 30 10:03
pawel_pfkso it's being updated all the timeOct 30 10:03
oiaohmMost of the corrections are making the document more and more invalid.Oct 30 10:03
pawel_pfkthis is obvious, mostly there are lies :)Oct 30 10:04
oiaohmLazy writer at work.Oct 30 10:04
pawel_pfkwe'll see if they start linking some sites to this articleOct 30 10:05
pawel_pfkand then, maybe it will be worth to mention something about it?Oct 30 10:06
pawel_pfkif it will happen of courseOct 30 10:06
oiaohmSome of the stuff is still true.Oct 30 10:07
oiaohmLike lack of focus on creating and maintaining the documentation.Oct 30 10:07
oiaohmBlender conf recently almost rioted over it.Oct 30 10:07
pawel_pfkyep, but documentation itself is dead :)Oct 30 10:07
pawel_pfkof course, there are probably some good points, but everything is written to show solaris as perfect osOct 30 10:08
pawel_pfkand Linux as the worstOct 30 10:08
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #AlexBrown is #Microsoft ’s “Insider Friend, ‘the Fox’” shameless shill for MicrosoftOct 30 10:08
phIRCe-localTitle: Alex Brown is Microsofts “Insider Friend, ‘the Fox’” | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 114.38 KBOct 30 10:09
oiaohmYet in recent years solarias documentatio have slippedOct 30 10:09
oiaohmSame issue as linux not enough people maintaining it.Oct 30 10:09
schestowitzpawel_pfk: is Sun tied to these latest smears?Oct 30 10:09
schestowitzThey can say it's "some guy"Oct 30 10:10
pawel_pfkschestowits: sun always acts in this wayOct 30 10:10
oiaohmWhat gets me is it is a pure recycled documents.Oct 30 10:10
oiaohmThis is no sun normal method.Oct 30 10:10
oiaohmno/notOct 30 10:10
pawel_pfkschestowits: they use blogs and some people to attack othersOct 30 10:10
pawel_pfkprobably never directlyOct 30 10:11
oiaohmpawel_pfk: Sun PR teams do act directly.Oct 30 10:11
pawel_pfkoiaohm: yes?Oct 30 10:11
oiaohmNormally with valid documents.Oct 30 10:11
schestowitzWhich blogs?Oct 30 10:11
pawel_pfkschestowitz: i.e. BonwickOct 30 10:11
oiaohmOne document is not valid you really have to wonder who.Oct 30 10:11
pawel_pfkthis guy worked at ZFSOct 30 10:11
pawel_pfkoiaohm: what document? :)Oct 30 10:12
pawel_pfk 30 10:12
phIRCe-localTitle: Solaris Inside : Jeff Bonwick's Blog .::. Size~: 23.54 KBOct 30 10:12
pawel_pfkhe spreaded FUD some time ago on his blogOct 30 10:13
pawel_pfkand I gave Dave response to this FUD beforeOct 30 10:13
pawel_pfkbut it's from 07 afaikOct 30 10:13
oiaohmIt not 100 percent FUD.Oct 30 10:14
oiaohmAround 2007 Linux was not getting the same percentage of yield from cpu cores as what solarias was.Oct 30 10:14
pawel_pfkmaybe not 100 percent Oct 30 10:14
pawel_pfkDave said something elseOct 30 10:14
oiaohmHe also pointed to the issue.Oct 30 10:15
oiaohmFs of Linux was still single data stream.Oct 30 10:15
pawel_pfkand Dave explained why it was like this :)Oct 30 10:15
oiaohmOnly fixed in 2.6.32 by the way the data stream issue.Oct 30 10:15
Diablo-D3[06:11:34] <oiaohm> Around 2007 Linux was not getting the same percentage of yield from cpu cores as what solarias was.Oct 30 10:15
Diablo-D3probably an accounting errorOct 30 10:16
Diablo-D3bfs > *Oct 30 10:16
pawel_pfkoiaohm: probably not, because there's written about this 'issue' at lkml and it was configuration problemOct 30 10:16
pawel_pfksomething related to childsOct 30 10:16
oiaohmIt was a mixture of things.Oct 30 10:16
oiaohmWhen solarias put in zfs they fixed there lower filesystem stack.Oct 30 10:17
pawel_pfkI checked and even 2.6.8 scalled easily up to 64 CPUsOct 30 10:17
oiaohmThat did make a major performance differenceOct 30 10:17
pawel_pfkbut Bonwick said it was Linux problem, but it was just configuration problemOct 30 10:17
oiaohmSince 2.6.8 you are aware that Linux has many times doubled it processing on 128 cpu systems.Oct 30 10:17
pawel_pfkthere's a thread about thisOct 30 10:17
oiaohmIe its yield numbers.Oct 30 10:18
oiaohmThese days the 2007 stuff is pointless the issues that caused the yield to be low is mostly gone.Oct 30 10:18
pawel_pfkbut it's not related :)Oct 30 10:18
oiaohmLocks filesystem particular vfs kernel locking .Oct 30 10:19
oiaohmYes the Blasted big kernel lock.Oct 30 10:19
pawel_pfkBonwick said Linux scales worst then Solaris, but Linux scalled much better those times Oct 30 10:19
pawel_pfkand it scales far better nowOct 30 10:19
pawel_pfkhe just lied Oct 30 10:19
oiaohmUnder particular work loads Bonwick was right.Oct 30 10:19
oiaohmFilesystem work loads.Oct 30 10:20
pawel_pfkno, he mentioned SGIOct 30 10:20
pawel_pfkand it was explained it was just configuration problemOct 30 10:20
oiaohmGuess what section Bonwick works on in SolariasOct 30 10:20
pawel_pfkhe worked on zfsOct 30 10:20
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pawel_pfkbut it doesn't matter too muchOct 30 10:20
pawel_pfkif sun paid him, he sold his mind ;)Oct 30 10:20
oiaohmSolarias filesystem vfs did not have a big kernel lock in it like Linux.Oct 30 10:20
oiaohmHitting the lock to lock everything in the vfs was not a good thing.Oct 30 10:21
pawel_pfkhowever, Linux had and has RCUOct 30 10:21
pawel_pfkand it makes a big differenceOct 30 10:21
oiaohmOnly recently did Linux vfs move to RCUOct 30 10:21
binkymorning folks.  has anyone heard more about the layoffs at novell this week?Oct 30 10:21
pawel_pfkthose time Bonwick was lying, Linux had RCUOct 30 10:22
oiaohmIf people had taken Bonwick answers in context to where it works we might have got the vfs in Linux fixed sooner.Oct 30 10:22
pawel_pfkoiaohm: its explained in Dave's responseOct 30 10:22
oiaohmDave responed to general all round powOct 30 10:23
oiaohmpawel_pfk: Oct 30 10:23
oiaohmGeneral all round Dava was right.Oct 30 10:23
oiaohmBut there was a pocket of hell.Oct 30 10:23
pawel_pfkit's just sun's nature :)Oct 30 10:23
pawel_pfkthey always attack via blogs etc.Oct 30 10:23
oiaohmIts knowing sun developers.Oct 30 10:23
pawel_pfkwhy they didn't make official statement?Oct 30 10:23
pawel_pfkbecause they fearedOct 30 10:24
oiaohmSun developers work inside a particualy field and are known to be tunneled vissioned.Oct 30 10:24
pawel_pfkhehe ;DOct 30 10:24
oiaohmSo if you take there blog posts with that.  They can point you to critical areas of issues.Oct 30 10:24
pawel_pfkbut usually those isues are imaginableOct 30 10:25
pawel_pfknormal devs don't play in such gamesOct 30 10:25
oiaohmI am sorry to say it happens to normal developers as well.Oct 30 10:25
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pawel_pfknormally any dev don't attack others imhoOct 30 10:26
pawel_pfktill he's paidOct 30 10:26
oiaohmIts like the developers in the Linux kernel saying having to scheduler at fault.Oct 30 10:26
oiaohmEven when it was major locking issues.Oct 30 10:26
pawel_pfkthey're talking about their projectOct 30 10:26
oiaohmOr that Linux out benches something else.Oct 30 10:26
pawel_pfkI never saw they something like thisOct 30 10:27
oiaohmMost of the time they do include the context sometimes they forget including.Oct 30 10:27
pawel_pfkusually they responed to other benchmarksOct 30 10:27
oiaohmNormally do correct it.Oct 30 10:27
oiaohmJust sun developers are not known for doing the correct.  They just keep on moving forward.Oct 30 10:27
oiaohmNotice the sun developer did provide context.Oct 30 10:28
pawel_pfkin my opinion in your interest is to protect sun and it seems a little flame is starting, so maybe we'll better stop here?Oct 30 10:28
oiaohmBut if you were developing a storage appliance  << Most people missed it including you pawel_pfkOct 30 10:28
oiaohmIn a storage appliance what is critical.Oct 30 10:28
*binky has quit ("Page closed")Oct 30 10:28
oiaohmFile system not data processing.Oct 30 10:29
pawel_pfkmy point is just to point sun is using blogs to attack Linux and spread lies and FUD about it :)Oct 30 10:29
pawel_pfkI don't care about other things right nowOct 30 10:29
oiaohmHalf the issue is people only have read the post.Oct 30 10:29
oiaohmTake there own context away and cause all kinds of problems.Oct 30 10:30
oiaohmThis problem is not unique to sun blogs either.Oct 30 10:30
oiaohmIBM blogs have had the same issue.Oct 30 10:30
pawel_pfkdoesn't change a thingOct 30 10:30
pawel_pfkthey must protect themselves right?Oct 30 10:31
pawel_pfkI said what I wanted to say, I'm not interested in other thingsOct 30 10:31
pawel_pfkthe fact is sun spreads FUD about Linux using blogsOct 30 10:31
oiaohmMost of it read correct is not FUD.Oct 30 10:32
pawel_pfkif IBM do the same against i. e. sun I don't careOct 30 10:32
pawel_pfknope, it isOct 30 10:32
treestrumpany examples?Oct 30 10:32
oiaohmThat one read in context is right pawel_pfkOct 30 10:32
pawel_pfkthere's no single proof, except some sun benchmarks which isn't trusworthyOct 30 10:32
oiaohmJust everyone else reading it complete forgot the "if you were developing a storage appliance"  Oct 30 10:33
pawel_pfkyou didn't read, so you don't know what I'm according toOct 30 10:33
oiaohmIts a complete different kettle of fish to developing a cluster to data process.Oct 30 10:33
pawel_pfksome proofs... :Oct 30 10:33
oiaohmThere are a lot of different white papers that have been abused same kinds of ways taking bits out of context.Oct 30 10:34
pawel_pfkone of the titles:Oct 30 10:34
pawel_pfkSolaris as a cultural phenomenonOct 30 10:34
oiaohmThe biggest classic was "secuirty by obsecuirty"  taken by MS.Oct 30 10:34
pawel_pfkthey've got to be kiddingOct 30 10:34
oiaohmobsecuirty is creating secrects attackers cannot simply find out.  Ie closed source binaries is not secuirty by obsecuirty because too many people have copies of it.Oct 30 10:35
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Massive New Migration to #FreeSoftware in French Authorities; #Gendarmerie Should Delete #Mono 30 10:35
phIRCe-localTitle: Massive New Migration to Free Software in French Authorities; Gendarmerie Should Delete Mono | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 110.61 KBOct 30 10:36
oiaohmHuman nature is to take context wrong pawel_pfkOct 30 10:36
oiaohmNow you could claim sun blogger are stealthing and cause others to take up FUD by mistake but don't do FUD themselves.Oct 30 10:36
pawel_pfkTrue, micro kernels might be a "total crap" if you compare them with the simple uniprocessor kernel of the size of Linux kernel 1.0. But the situation might be a little bit different with SMP-support and related additional complexity of all key subsystems that made kernel 2.6 many times bigger. Oct 30 10:37
pawel_pfkSolaris if far more complexOct 30 10:38
pawel_pfkit's natural 2.6 is bigger, because it brought many imporvementsOct 30 10:38
pawel_pfkbut this person doesn't understand thisOct 30 10:38
oiaohmLot of core of Linux is reducing in size pawel_pfkOct 30 10:38
pawel_pfkso that's good sin't it?Oct 30 10:39
oiaohmSadly there is bloat and duplication to remove.  But its nothing like the ammount MS windows.Oct 30 10:39
oiaohmhas in duplication.Oct 30 10:39
pawel_pfksolaris situation is far worseOct 30 10:40
oiaohmEven micro kernels at times have advantages over Linux in the right locations.Oct 30 10:41
oiaohmHigher crash resistance that micro kernels can have due to less running in ring 0.Oct 30 10:41
pawel_pfkoiaohm: but I'm not interested in thisOct 30 10:42
pawel_pfkUntil version 2.6 Linux just cannot compete on its own outside several highly specialized areas (only SGI has limited success in this area with their highly modified fully 64-bit Linux). The situation is improved with version 2.6 that provides more or less full 64-bit support, but it might be too little and too late to change the dynamics of this flat (or even shrinking) and very conservative market, where each previous investment stronglyOct 30 10:42
pawel_pfk suggests the next.  You just need to think about IBM mainframes which are still compatible with programs written in early 60th of the last century.  Linux track record in compatibility is simply horrible and as such Linux clearly is out of taste for mainframe buyers. Oct 30 10:42
oiaohmEverything has the price if solarias could not beat Linux in someareas I would be supprised.Oct 30 10:42
pawel_pfkthis is total bull what they said hereOct 30 10:42
pawel_pfkthey mention first 2.6 kernel Oct 30 10:42
oiaohmNot total bull  SGI was replacing the 2.4 network stack.Oct 30 10:43
pawel_pfkand how it is related?Oct 30 10:43
oiaohmThat is valid for highly modified.Oct 30 10:43
pawel_pfknopeOct 30 10:43
pawel_pfkhis according to scallability and 64-bit supportOct 30 10:44
pawel_pfkand he simply liesOct 30 10:44
pawel_pfkand he also lies about compatibilityOct 30 10:45
pawel_pfkLinux can run first Linux binariesOct 30 10:45
pawel_pfkstill*Oct 30 10:45
oiaohmNot 100 percent true pawel_pfkOct 30 10:45
pawel_pfkthis article is not even 5% true ;)Oct 30 10:45
oiaohmIBM mainframes do it by virtualisation support.Oct 30 10:45
oiaohmWhat Linux is now getting.Oct 30 10:46
pawel_pfkagain you're wrongOct 30 10:46
pawel_pfkLinux kernel can run such old Linux binaries nativelyOct 30 10:46
oiaohmThere are particular network control calls that current Linux kernel does not have.Oct 30 10:46
pawel_pfkand how is this related?Oct 30 10:46
oiaohmParticular programs are kernel major numbers dependant.Oct 30 10:46
pawel_pfkand?Oct 30 10:47
pawel_pfkit doesn't change a thingOct 30 10:47
oiaohmIBM mainframes get around by being able to virtualize syscalls.Oct 30 10:47
treestrumpthe ABI's have changedOct 30 10:47
oiaohmSame like freebsd.Oct 30 10:47
pawel_pfkanother part of FUD:Oct 30 10:48
pawel_pfkDump infrastructure in linux is primitive and buggy. Tracing also leaves much to be desired and far behind the capabilities of DTrace.  Due to better instrumentation with proper tuning Solaris 10 can achieve performance comparative or better then linux on X86 architecture.Oct 30 10:48
oiaohmHopefull at somepoint cgroups provide that to Linux pawel_pfkOct 30 10:48
pawel_pfkafaik there's a better tool than dtrace, it's not such invasiveOct 30 10:48
pawel_pfkthey wish solaris will achieve same or better performance on x86 Oct 30 10:49
oiaohmLack of Dtrace has been a major headache to sorting out performance.  << Like this.Oct 30 10:49
phIRCe-localTitle: Introducing timechart €«  Arjan van de Ven's blog .::. Size~: 52.51 KBOct 30 10:49
oiaohmWhat we have now.Oct 30 10:49
oiaohmthere was a way to create charts from dtrace helping massively.Oct 30 10:49
pawel_pfkcurrently there are such toolsOct 30 10:49
oiaohmThey are only recent pawel_pfkOct 30 10:50
oiaohmAt the time of artical it does have some valid points.Oct 30 10:50
pawel_pfkvery fewOct 30 10:50
oiaohmNow comared to today its dead.Oct 30 10:50
pawel_pfkarticle?Oct 30 10:50
oiaohmIt has very few points total.Oct 30 10:51
pawel_pfkyes and they're usually not correctOct 30 10:51
oiaohmThey are correct.Oct 30 10:51
oiaohmJust over pushed.Oct 30 10:51
pawel_pfkmany are not correct :)Oct 30 10:51
oiaohmMost are correct.Oct 30 10:51
pawel_pfkbut you didn't read a whole articleOct 30 10:51
oiaohmAt that time.Oct 30 10:51
pawel_pfkit's hard to say to what time this article is relatedOct 30 10:52
oiaohmBut people are reading way too much into them.Oct 30 10:52
pawel_pfkit seems it's related to current year, because there was an updateOct 30 10:52
pawel_pfkand they mention Solaris 10, so it must be related to current yearOct 30 10:53
oiaohmAlso did you not read the top of the document.    "Copyright 2005-2009, Dr. Nikolai Bezroukov. This is a copyrighted unpublished work. All rights reserved."Oct 30 10:53
pawel_pfkyepOct 30 10:53
oiaohmunpublished work equals draft.Oct 30 10:53
pawel_pfkthis is a way such cowards like sun actsOct 30 10:53
pawel_pfkbut it's published :>Oct 30 10:54
oiaohmShould be expected to be spreed over 2005 to 2009 of entries.Oct 30 10:54
oiaohmDeclare of unpublished says draft even if it posted or not.Oct 30 10:54
oiaohmIts posted for feed back to correct errors pawel_pfkOct 30 10:54
pawel_pfkI know, but google bots read itOct 30 10:55
pawel_pfkand some people alsoOct 30 10:55
oiaohmAnd that document need a lot.Oct 30 10:55
pawel_pfkthe best would be to delete this bull, too much to correctOct 30 10:55
oiaohmPeople are dumb.Oct 30 10:55
pawel_pfksadly, but trueOct 30 10:55
oiaohmIts not that sun has done anything wrong as such.Oct 30 10:55
oiaohmThey are purely depending on the DUMB to turn a draft document into fud.Oct 30 10:56
pawel_pfknope, their marketing guys probably said it will be a nice solaris 10 advertisementOct 30 10:57
oiaohmSince the sections in the draft were correct at some time in the 2005-2009 time window they are home free from a white paperOct 30 10:57
oiaohmNow any white paper that is draft should never be quoted.Oct 30 10:57
oiaohmBecause its draft and could have to be corrected.Oct 30 10:57
oiaohmNow if you could find SUN marketing people quoting it you would have them by the balls pawel_pfkOct 30 10:58
pawel_pfkit's unfinished to not let other people act officialyOct 30 10:58
treestrumpunpublished only means it has not been published in a journal, like most blogsOct 30 10:58
pawel_pfkso, it seems it's another sun attack via 'blog'Oct 30 10:58
oiaohmunpublished also does not mean released as final version treestrumpOct 30 10:58
pawel_pfkunfinished is a shield in this caseOct 30 10:59
pawel_pfknobody says it's a final versionOct 30 10:59
treestrumpnobody says it's a draft either.Oct 30 10:59
pawel_pfkcurrent version is just a piece of bullOct 30 10:59
oiaohmunpublished documents are also not meant to be quoted from treestrump.  No peer review.Oct 30 11:00
oiaohmFor defects.Oct 30 11:00
pawel_pfkfor protection and because of cowardnessOct 30 11:00
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] New Blog Post - Back In Business | The Digital Prism 30 11:00
phIRCe-localTitle: Back In Business | The Digital Prism .::. Size~: 11.57 KBOct 30 11:01
pawel_pfkI just wanted to point sun stills spread FUD against Linux, you'll do what you want :)Oct 30 11:01
oiaohmpawel_pfk: anywhere SUN marketing quote it.  Or is it SUN letting other idiots quote it missing the documents status.Oct 30 11:01
oiaohmIts not FUD as such pawel_pfkOct 30 11:02
pawel_pfkthey use it just to advertise Solaris 10 and to attack Linux, that's allOct 30 11:02
oiaohmThey are purely depending on idiot people to run it into FUD.Oct 30 11:02
pawel_pfkother things don't matterOct 30 11:02
pawel_pfknope, it's a fudOct 30 11:02
pawel_pfkbut you proved you have problems to understand some pointsOct 30 11:03
pawel_pfkso we don't have anythin more to talk about :)Oct 30 11:03
oiaohmA pure fud attack attempts to look true document.Oct 30 11:03
oiaohmSUN ones don't.Oct 30 11:03
pawel_pfkif this article will be finished or more popular think of writing about itOct 30 11:04
pawel_pfkhave a nice day, Bye Oct 30 11:04
*pawel_pfk (n=quassel@ has left #boycottnovell (" - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.")Oct 30 11:04
phIRCe-localTitle: Blogs | Quassel IRC .::. Size~: 26.91 KBOct 30 11:04
oiaohmThey have there own veration of it.Oct 30 11:04
oiaohmCopyright 2005-2009, Dr. Nikolai Bezroukov. This is a copyrighted unpublished work. All rights reserved.  << Note the All rights reserved.Oct 30 11:05
oiaohmNo one really has the right to publish it to use it.Oct 30 11:05
treestrumpit's just a normal standard copyright notice, thats how they all are.Oct 30 11:08
oiaohmIs it me or pawel_pfk was trying to get us to attack sun without 100 percent valid grounds.   Yes what sun does is far more sneaky but is not FUD because can be disproven quicky.Oct 30 11:08
oiaohmThere is no other copyright notices to allow any other usage treestrump  not all are that way.Oct 30 11:08
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Vista7 Even Worse Than #Vista in Some Ways — Claim 30 11:10
phIRCe-localTitle: Vista 7 Even Worse Than Vista in Some Ways  Claim | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 113.96 KBOct 30 11:11
oiaohm  Also read the notes on that document treestrumpOct 30 11:12
phIRCe-localTitle: Solaris vs Linux .::. Size~: 24.86 KBOct 30 11:12
oiaohmThis paper covers results of the research in progress.  << The line of fear.  Yes research in progress incomplete document.Oct 30 11:13

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