05.17.08

Gemini version available ♊︎

Why You Should Reject Novell’s Moonlight

Posted in Microsoft, Mono, Novell, SUN at 8:20 pm by Dr. Roy Schestowitz

Silverlight puke, barf

Moonlight’s cold reception was mentioned briefly just a couple of days ago, but let’s emphasise again why GNU/Linux users must not accept it; instead, they need to complaint or protest against Webmasters that adopt such ActiveX-like embrace & extend strategies. Don’t let Microsoft journalists lie to developers by saying that there is "Silverlight for Linux" because there isn't. They try to deceive.

GNOME WMVPractical considerations aside, another important issue is that the Web could soon get infected with software patent traps. Web sites and Web-based applications are not like any other program that you can install and later replace or remove. If a site requires Silverlight, which in turn is riddled with patents, then it requires licences too, so that leaves Free software stuck. Microsoft, unlike Adobe or Sun, offers no free lunch. We’ll come to this in a moment.

To those who are led to believe (probably by Novell and Microsoft) that Moonlight is fine and that it’s a great step forward, mind the other side of the story. For example:

See? You can have most of .Net … but you can’t write a GUI because Windows Forms is held back. If you try to port Windows forms to another platform, so that a program originally written in .Net using Windows forms can be easily ported to that other platform … Microsoft would certainly sue.

Absolutely classic Microsoft behaviour, that.

For Silverlight … the piece of that that Microsoft have held back for themselves exclusively is the content creation part.

You can only create Silverlight content on a Windows platform.

Remember what was recently said about Windows forms, as far as software patents are concerned. Also see this from ZDNet:

Something has always bothered me about Novell’s Mono project.

Those feelings came together this week with the release of Moonlight, Novell’s implementation of Microsoft Silverlight for Linux.

It’s actually the comments that you might find more interesting. The ugly truth comes from Goldfarb’s own mouth (Microsoft senior), to which the response was this.

What Mr. Goldfarb is alluding to is Microsoft’s position that because of the MS/Novell patent covenant only users of Novell’s Linux offerings have permission to use Mono. All others (as implied by Mr. Goldfarb’s statements here) are using Mono in violation of MS’ patents.

Novell’s Bruce Lowry sort of confirmed this before (he has actually left the company since then). The above only validates what we already knew and warned about a long time ago, e.g. here. Mono and Moonlight are yet another extortion tool for Microsoft. Moonlight enables Mono — along with its accompanying Microsoft patents burden — to penetrate other desktop environments such as Xfce and KDE. Stop Novell and Mono before they spread too far and have Microsoft knocking on doors.

Mono strings GNOME

Image contributed by Beranger

Share in other sites/networks: These icons link to social bookmarking sites where readers can share and discover new web pages.
  • Reddit
  • email

Decor ᶃ Gemini Space

Below is a Web proxy. We recommend getting a Gemini client/browser.

Black/white/grey bullet button This post is also available in Gemini over at this address (requires a Gemini client/browser to open).

Decor ✐ Cross-references

Black/white/grey bullet button Pages that cross-reference this one, if any exist, are listed below or will be listed below over time.

Decor ▢ Respond and Discuss

Black/white/grey bullet button If you liked this post, consider subscribing to the RSS feed or join us now at the IRC channels.

9 Comments

  1. AlexH said,

    May 18, 2008 at 5:07 am

    Gravatar

    I hope you will start decrying Flash sometime soon, then.

    Adobe offers no free Flash lunch (it’s available non-free for i386 users – they don’t support x64_64, or PPC), and Gnash and swf-dec aren’t Flash since they’re constantly playing catch-up. Flash is riddled with patents (e.g., the video codec patents) and free software distributions like Debian cannot include support for those patents in their free software codecs.

    If you believe that Moonlight can’t build an entirely free software version of Silverlight without infringing Microsoft patents, then we’re basically screwed because those self-same patents are going to cover Flash, XUL, AIR, Weave, and all sorts of other software.

  2. Victor Soliz said,

    May 18, 2008 at 7:25 am

    Gravatar

    Did anyone notice how “proof by Red Hat” is becoming a common argument?

    Red Hat wouldn’t touch Mono initially because they were concerned there might be legal issues, they’re very careful around these things. That they now happily use Mono is because they are no longer concerned that there are any legal problems.

  3. Roy Schestowitz said,

    May 18, 2008 at 7:29 am

    Gravatar

    I see lot more “proof by Adobe.” Phone me when Adobe decides to ‘pull an SCO’ on the mythical Linux World. Even Sun…

    Alex, please have a look at this reference which was cited above.

  4. Alex H. said,

    May 18, 2008 at 11:23 am

    Gravatar

    Victor:

    “Proof by Red Hat” doesn’t exist, but “seeing what the experts think” certainly does: Red Hat have a number of extremely savvy lawyers.

    As proof of that – and “evidence” that I’m surprised this site hasn’t started shouting from the rooftops – the Moonlight plugin isn’t allowed in Fedora yet, because Red Hat aren’t happy with it.

    Now, if Red Hat decide that Moonlight cannot go into Fedora until the licensing changes, then I’ll quite happily admit that Moonlight is not free software, and that we can place it in the same category as Flash as being non-free.

    I doubt those on the other side of the argument would make such a commitment. But I’m arguing pro-free software, so it’s very easy to evaluate for me.

    Roy:

    I’ve read that article and other stuff like it. You can say that about any proprietary technology, be it free software or not (e.g., Mozilla’s XUL, Adobe’s Flash, etc.) The fact that the canonical implementation is not free software isn’t that big an issue, it doesn’t stop free software innovating (e.g., Mozilla has plenty of non-W3C standardised technologies within it).

    “Flash can be trusted more than Silverlight” is fanciful nonsense on your part, though. It’s your opinion, it’s not backed up by any fact:

    “Adobe is neither interested in discriminating against operating systems, nor has it got a history that demonstrates this.”

    So, Adobe doesn’t discriminate against non-i386 Linux users?

    This is the same Adobe that had Dmitri Sklyarov arrested in the US for implementing a PDF reader.

    Yeah, very friendly company Roy, Keep bigging them up.

  5. Roy Schestowitz said,

    May 18, 2008 at 6:24 pm

    Gravatar

    I’m not advocating Flash at all, but better than devil that we know. We don’t need 4 devils, especially not when one of them rattles a saber.

  6. AlexH said,

    May 19, 2008 at 4:14 am

    Gravatar

    “Better the devil we know”?!

    No, thanks, I’ll take the free software solution over the proprietary one, no matter who develops it. If that’s Moonlight, or JavaFX, I really don’t care, but at the moment I can only download one of those…

  7. John Wilson said,

    May 19, 2008 at 3:30 pm

    Gravatar

    There are very simple reasons not to use Mono or any .Net environment not the least of which is that PHP, Ruby and Python do it all much better. Remember that C# is Microsoft’s fork of Java. That said “Windows Forms” are a red herring. Who, exactly is going to use it in the wild? Google? Amazon? Anyone other than closed corporate intranets? I kinda doubt it.

    The only issue around Mono are the tentacles it has all over GNOME, the supposed free software alternative to KDE. (Remember GNOME was built from GNU tools to get around the feared proprietary trap of the QT libraries KDE used before they were open sourced.)

    Silver/Moonlight will be easy to ignore simply because, I expect, this time Microsoft bit off more than it can chew. Adobe isn’t going to stand by while MS tries to take some of the Flash market away and smile. More than likely it will fight back and attempt to ensure that Silverlight gets no traction at all.

    There was a story on Computerworld, I think, that illustrates this which basically says that books in the latter half of 2007 and Q1 of 2008 on Flash and related techologies outsold books on Silverlight by something like 50-1. As book sales are a good indication of developer interest

    Remember too that Adobe has a graphics, video editing, effects, SVG tools etc ecosystem to support Flash. MS has diddly squat. All of these supported by standard tools such as javascript.

    At least part of the reason for Adobe’s recent interest in FLOSS is the realization, belatedly, that the desktop OS is increasingly less relevant in the markets they are interested in than the world where the browser is the most important item there is.

    Linux powers an immense part of that world so it’s in Adobe’s self interest to become more open. I’m not so concerned how they get there in that they do.

    Microsoft, meanwhile, is only interested in protecting their desktop turf and, other than the fantasy that Yahoo will help them online, they seem to be missing the power of the Internet again.

    And in the “world” of the internet Microsoft isn’t the giant. Google is.

    ttfn

    John

  8. Roy Schestowitz said,

    May 20, 2008 at 5:25 am

    Gravatar

    Alex,

    No, thanks, I’ll take the free software solution over the proprietary one, no matter who develops it

    From http://www.groklaw.net/newsitems.php :

    [PJ: You might want to read the Microsoft-Novell patent covenant for Moonlight, for example. Who can be sued? When? Under what circumstances?]

    Good luck with your ‘free’ software.

  9. Sampa Mutoku said,

    May 21, 2008 at 6:14 am

    Gravatar

    Stupid boy! You vote for the closed software because you don’t like the company who offers the FREE, OPEN software.

    Note: comment has been flagged for arriving from a possible incarnation of a known (eet), pseudonymous, forever-nymshifting, abusive Internet troll that posts from open proxies and relays around the world.

DecorWhat Else is New


  1. 38+ Years of GNU and 19+ Years of FSF Associate Membership

    “On November 25, 2002,” Wikipedia notes, “the FSF launched the FSF Associate Membership program for individuals.” As the above video points out, it all started almost 40 years ago.



  2. Gemini as a Platform for Gamers

    Contrary to what people often assume (or are led to assume), even without client-side scripting Gemini can accomplish a great deal; early adopters, many of whom are technical, test the limits of the very minimalistic (by design and intention) specification



  3. Improved Workflows: Achievement Unlocked

    Today we've completed a bunch of small projects that can make us more efficient (e.g. more Daily Links per day, more articles); the above video was recorded many hours ago to accompany the outline below



  4. Links 26/11/2021: New Complaint About Microsoft Competition Crimes in Europe, EuroLinux 8.5, GhostBSD 21.11.24, and Kiwi TCMS 10.5 Released

    Links for the day



  5. Links 26/11/2021: F35 Elections, Whonix 16.0.3.7, OSMC's November Refresh With Kodi 19.3

    Links for the day



  6. IRC Proceedings: Thursday, November 25, 2021

    IRC logs for Thursday, November 25, 2021



  7. IRC Proceedings: Wednesday, November 24, 2021

    IRC logs for Wednesday, November 24, 2021



  8. Links 25/11/2021: PHP 8.1.0 Released and Linux 5.15.5

    Links for the day



  9. IBM as Master of Hypocrisy

    Free software projects and Free software developers have long been humiliated by corporations of Western misogynists, falsely claiming that the Free software community isn’t inclusive enough (these are shameless projection tactics; as a matter of public record, the exact opposite is true) and even the eradication of supposedly offensive language isn’t something IBM takes seriously



  10. Links 25/11/2021: LibreOffice 7.2.3 and Mesa 21.2.6 Released

    Links for the day



  11. [Meme] So Desperate That Edge Cannot Even Exceed 4% That They Block Rival Web Browsers

    Linux/Android/Free Software/GNU (they go by very many names/brands) may continue to grow to the point where Windows is as irrelevant as Blackberry; this means that Microsoft’s grip on the Web too has slipped — to the point where Microsoft frantically uses 'bailout' money to hijack LinkedIn, GitHub, etc. (it also rebrands almost everything as "Azure" or clown to fake a perception of growth)



  12. Windows Vista Service Pack 11 (Vista 11) Has Failed to Curb the Growth of GNU/Linux

    Windows market share continues to decrease in spite of billions of dollars spent bribing the media for fake hype, especially in light of a new Windows Service Pack (SP), Vista SP 11



  13. Links 25/11/2021: Proton 6.3-8 and Linux Mint Compared to Ubuntu

    Links for the day



  14. 3.5 Years Later the 'Master' of Fedora is Still Microsoft and IBM Cannot Be Bothered to Alter Git Branch Names (Refuting or Ignoring Its Very Own Directive About Supposedly Racially-Insensitive Terms)

    Today we demonstrate the hypocrisy of IBM; years after telling us that we should shun the term "master" and repeatedly insisting it had a racist connotation at least 65 Fedora repositories, still controlled by Microsoft, still use "master"



  15. Changing the Arrangement While News is a Bit Slow(er)

    I've made it easier for myself to keep abreast of things like IRC channels and networks (incidentally, a day ago Freenode reopened to anonymous logins) and I've improved monitoring of the Web sites, Gemini capsule etc. (this video is unplanned and improvised)



  16. Links 24/11/2021: Alpine Linux 3.15 and Endless OS 4.0 Released

    Links for the day



  17. [Meme] Jimmy Zemlin Loves Microsoft

    It’s funny, isn’t it? Lying for a living and sucking up to the liars pays off; you get to plunder actual Linux users while leaving Linux morally and financially bankrupt



  18. Links 24/11/2021: PHP Foundation and Flatpak Criticisms

    Links for the day



  19. IRC Proceedings: Tuesday, November 23, 2021

    IRC logs for Tuesday, November 23, 2021



  20. Links 24/11/2021: Rust Crisis and Team UPC Still Faking 'Progress'

    Links for the day



  21. Links 23/11/2021: New GNU Parallel and Memories of David H. Adler (Perl, Raku)

    Links for the day



  22. In Light of Fast-Accelerating Deterioration -- Sometimes Weaponisation -- Getting Off the World Wide Web (to the Extent Feasible) Makes You Saner and Less Susceptible to Manipulation, Lies

    Almost no sites are speaking about it (probably because they have no presence on the Internet except on the Web), but it's time to motivate more people to get off the Web, for their own good and for society's sake...



  23. Black Friday SPAM on the World Wide Web: A Reminder That the Web is a Dying Platform, Languishing Due to Marketing and Misinformation

    The junk that overruns the Web this 'Black Friday' week (consumerism 'on steroids') is a good reminder that the Web isn't healthy for the mind anymore; it's mostly spying on people, trying to compel them to buy particular things or vote a certain way



  24. Microsoft-Led Misinformation Campaign About Germany and Munich Reminds Us That Microsoft Hates and Actively Undermines GNU/Linux Adoption

    Regarding the latest moves to GNU/Linux in Germany we have 3 points to make



  25. Links 23/11/2021: Libreboot 20211122, Deepin Linux 20.3, Amazon Linux 2022, and Mabox Linux 21.11 Released

    Links for the day



  26. IRC Proceedings: Monday, November 22, 2021

    IRC logs for Monday, November 22, 2021



  27. Links 22/11/2021: EasyOS Dunfell 3.1.11, Microsoft 'Extends' Mesa for Windows

    Links for the day



  28. Microsoft's GitHub is Hugely Toxic and It Censors Critics of Corporations or People Sceptical of Those in Power

    Sociopaths have taken over GitHub and control over GitHub (by Microsoft) is being shamelessly misused, just as we’ve warned all along; GitHub is social control media/network for code, asserting control over projects and developers by means of censorship and other sanctions



  29. EPO Staff Engagement Survey Predates the Pandemic and Provides False Assumptions for EPO Policies or Policy-Setting

    The EPO ticks a box for "surveying the staff", but is it actually listening? Is that done often enough? It was last done almost 3 years ago...



  30. Links 22/11/2021: Claws Mail 4 Enters Debian and Catch-up With Legal Matters

    Links for the day


RSS 64x64RSS Feed: subscribe to the RSS feed for regular updates

Home iconSite Wiki: You can improve this site by helping the extension of the site's content

Home iconSite Home: Background about the site and some key features in the front page

Chat iconIRC Channel: Come and chat with us in real time

Recent Posts