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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: June 10th, 2008

Posted in IRC Logs at 3:13 am by Dr. Roy Schestowitz

moparx hey Jun 09 21:50
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dsmith_ ok roy, I asked my question regardinf lenovo and freedos being withdrawn, he is going to find out for me Jun 09 23:33
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ZiggyFish hey Jun 10 03:14
dsmith_ hi Jun 10 03:20
ZiggyFish the article in todays links … Jun 10 03:29
ZiggyFish ‘Military Supercomputer Sets Record’ doesn’t mention anything about what OS it’s running Jun 10 03:30
ZiggyFish Do you know any more details about it Jun 10 03:30
schestowitz Thanks, dsmith. ZiggyFish, those Cell clusters typically run Red Hat/.Fedora. In fact, I’m pretty sure it’s Linux. Jun 10 03:54
ZiggyFish oh I see Jun 10 03:55
schestowitz Virtualisation taken into account, over 9!% of the world’s biggest computers run Linux. Jun 10 03:56
ZiggyFish you meant 91% I assume Jun 10 03:57
dsmith_ yea has to be linux Jun 10 03:57
dsmith_ what country? Jun 10 03:57
ZiggyFish dsmith_: us gov Jun 10 03:57
schestowitz Haha. Oops. My fonts are bad, so I didn’t e3ven notice. Jun 10 03:58
dsmith_ set what record? Jun 10 03:59
ZiggyFish fastest computer Jun 10 03:59
ZiggyFish 1 quadrillion flops (floating point operations per second Jun 10 03:59
dsmith_ ok Jun 10 03:59
dsmith_ man, my 386 could do that back when… sheeesh Jun 10 04:00
dsmith_ lol Jun 10 04:00
ZiggyFish lol Jun 10 04:00
schestowitz Would that run he big animation films in real time, I wonder… if GPU embedded… Jun 10 04:00
schestowitz GPUs I mean. NASA uses a lot of NVIDIA in the clusters Jun 10 04:01
ZiggyFish schestowitz: AFAIK it is made up of components from comerical GPUs Jun 10 04:01
ZiggyFish dsmith_: it’s like having a Peta-Hert computer Jun 10 04:02
dsmith_ they must have built it to create Wall-E and Kung-Fu Panda, then turned around and sold it ot the GOV, when they got faster machine Jun 10 04:03
schestowitz Oh. They too by the way use Fedora. Jun 10 04:03
ZiggyFish Also the computer uses the same arch (x86) as the one your typing on now. Jun 10 04:05
schestowitz Sadly, SUSE is getting some presence and room in clusters too. NASA just bought one and there’s one running SuSE 8 (or was). Jun 10 04:07
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ZiggyFish there was a security vulnerability found in IE today. Jun 10 04:15
ZiggyFish Microsoft Internet Explorer fails to properly follow RFC-2616 and uses content-sniffing to interpret UTF-7 data received in HTTP responses. Jun 10 04:15
ZiggyFish http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/29112 Jun 10 04:15
schestowitz *rolls eyes* IE is mess. I wonder how much its deficiencies have cost the world and how much of this could be avoided. Jun 10 04:16
ZiggyFish Although it says that it’s a Apache Vulnerability. in the actual description it says, “Additional reports indicate that the default error page has the Content-Type set, rendering it not vulnerable.” So the title is misleading Jun 10 04:17
schestowitz There’s always blame-throwing. Hopefully Apache is diplomatic enough to clear this up. Symantec had a similar tiff with Microsoft recently. Jun 10 04:19
ZiggyFish read about that Jun 10 04:19
ZiggyFish lets see how long it takes for Microsoft to fix the exploit Jun 10 04:20
schestowitz mMozilal as well, though it goes back months ago. Jun 10 04:20
schestowitz Mozilla (typo) Jun 10 04:20
ZiggyFish Mozilla Firefox may potentially automatically detect UTF-7 in some situations or configurations as well, ____but this has not been confirmed___. Jun 10 04:21
schestowitz Microsoft fixes flaws when they get exploited up to a level when it’s worth revealing the weakness. No joking. As for Mozilla, they needed to mimic some IE functionality or facilitate Windows-tied API. It’s a case where underlying platform mistakes and need for faux ‘compatibility’ hits counterparts also. Jun 10 04:22
ZiggyFish I just tried it on my version of Apache/2.2.8 (Ubuntu) PHP/5.2.4-2ubuntu5.1 with Suhosin-Patch Server at localhost Port 80 (with mozilla) and it nothing was wrong Jun 10 04:23
schestowitz Replication flaws, eh? Sounds like some work. :-) Jun 10 04:24
ZiggyFish I’ll just check the it in IE (got to load a a VM) Jun 10 04:24
schestowitz News: “There’s no guarantee that Skype’s AES encryption is implemented properly or that there aren’t lingering security flaws.” http://news.cnet.com/8301-1357… (that’s why I won’t use the Skype blob) Jun 10 04:24
ZiggyFish brb Jun 10 04:27
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ZiggyFish back Jun 10 04:31
schestowitz Testing FF? Jun 10 04:31
ZiggyFish yeah, testing IE Jun 10 04:32
schestowitz On Linux? Jun 10 04:32
ZiggyFish (needed a to reboot in to an old kernel to access my VM (I haven’t yet compiled the modules for this new kernel) Jun 10 04:33
schestowitz That’s what I suspected (virtualisation). I’m sure headlines will reveal blame games, assuming there’s ambiguity/subjectivity. Jun 10 04:34
schestowitz What worries me is Microsoft’s approach towards Apache. They want them to deploy on Windows. Jun 10 04:34
dsmith_ I deployed FF long ago Jun 10 04:35
dsmith_ 25% of the users ended up sticking with FF when they rolled out IE Jun 10 04:35
dsmith_ yay Jun 10 04:35
schestowitz I remember… Jun 10 04:35
ZiggyFish schestowitz: the thing is it’s still slow on windows (even after their modifications) Jun 10 04:35
dsmith_ apache should just tell MS to go piss off Jun 10 04:35
schestowitz Did you not have the problem at your office where IE was called the industry standard? Jun 10 04:35
dsmith_ haha Jun 10 04:36
schestowitz Well, here’s the thing. About Apache et al. Jun 10 04:36
dsmith_ what standard Jun 10 04:36
dsmith_ yea Jun 10 04:36
schestowitz Microsoft uses labels like “Microsoft hater” and “zealot” to dare them to say no to invitations. Jun 10 04:36
dsmith_ I hear that crap all the time, industry standard Jun 10 04:36
dsmith_ I would say no Jun 10 04:36
schestowitz Speaking of which, Asay is still sucking up to Microsoft employees (I see it in the comments of their blogs) Jun 10 04:36
dsmith_ f em Jun 10 04:36
schestowitz IE is about /ignoring/ industry standards. Jun 10 04:37
ZiggyFish the expoit works in IE Jun 10 04:37
ZiggyFish but not in FF Jun 10 04:37
dsmith_ what does apache need from MS? Jun 10 04:37
schestowitz Cool. Jun 10 04:37
schestowitz Well, here’s the thing. Jun 10 04:37
dsmith_ I have done both just to see how hard/easy it was Jun 10 04:37
dsmith_ same with tomcat Jun 10 04:37
schestowitz As I understand it, Microsoft invited various teams (Apache is just one) to live on its blood supply for a while and ‘optimise’ for win32 Jun 10 04:38
ZiggyFish schestowitz: also it’s PHP that’s trying to work with IIS Jun 10 04:38
schestowitz Ha! Jun 10 04:38
dsmith_ bloood supply? Jun 10 04:38
schestowitz Yes, Zend is a bugger. Jun 10 04:38
dsmith_ ppl need to get it thru thier brains that MS is no good Jun 10 04:39
schestowitz That Guttman guy (II the name correctly) is not only working with them, but he also sort of invited other to fall in love with Microsoft. Jun 10 04:39
ZiggyFish schestowitz: I know that VM work better on Linux then on windows Jun 10 04:39
schestowitz That too it a major problem. Often you see Microsoft exploiting these relationships to expand them further. Jun 10 04:39
dsmith_ ppl will sell out for anything Jun 10 04:39
schestowitz Hypervisors too is something Microsoft applies these tactics to. Jun 10 04:40
ZiggyFish schestowitz: there was an expoit a comple of days ago (something to do with safery and IE) Jun 10 04:40
ZiggyFish *couple Jun 10 04:40
ZiggyFish let me find a link Jun 10 04:40
schestowitz Xen being an example,. Based in Redmond after a Microsoft deal, then acquired. Jun 10 04:40
schestowitz dsmith: Microsoft is exploiting some people’s weakness for money. Jun 10 04:40
schestowitz Just watch the Novell deal. It had financial issued and it then met Microsoft. Jun 10 04:41
schestowitz It’s Novell that actually ran to Microsoft and ended up abused (like a partner begging for the g/f or b/f to come back after a breakup). Jun 10 04:42
dsmith_ hahaa Jun 10 04:43
dsmith_ the novell openoffice xml converter works nicely Jun 10 04:44
dsmith_ I ws messing with it the other day Jun 10 04:44
dsmith_ going back and forth Jun 10 04:44
dsmith_ docx -odf – docx Jun 10 04:44
schestowitz There’s hope though. If Microsoft goes into debt (if it buys Yahoo for example), then it’ll be a push. Jun 10 04:44
dsmith_ I just think MS wastes too much $ and human resources on frivilous issues, it isn’t just them anymore Jun 10 04:45
schestowitz It won’t work in complex situation and OOo (or ODF-based software) will be blamed for being ‘bad’. Jun 10 04:45
schestowitz Moreover, it’s written in C#, so guess what it says about dependencies (although I haven’t checked) Jun 10 04:46
ZiggyFish Apple Safari and Microsoft Windows Client-side Code Execution Vulnerability Jun 10 04:46
ZiggyFish http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/29445 Jun 10 04:46
dsmith_ these were simple files Jun 10 04:46
schestowitz Well, the driver of the company at the moment is Ballmer’s envy and ego. Jun 10 04:46
ZiggyFish Third-party sources have indicated that the vulnerability in Safari is the “carpet-bombing” issue reported by Nitesh Dhanjani. If the issue is exploited, attacked-specified content is downloaded to the user’s desktop without prompting. However, the Safari issue alone does not let an attacker execute the content. Presumably, an additional issue in Microsoft Windows can be exploited in tandem with this issue to run the content Jun 10 04:47
ZiggyFish that is downloaded to the user’s desktop. Jun 10 04:47
schestowitz Safari seems like quite a mess because it’s new on this platform and it’s only visible to a group in cubicles. Jun 10 04:47
dsmith_ apple should just stick with what I know Jun 10 04:47
schestowitz Safari is immature, with the exception of Webkit (KHTML) Jun 10 04:48
dsmith_ who would want to use safari on windows anyway Jun 10 04:48
ZiggyFish schestowitz: do you know what engine it uses Jun 10 04:48
schestowitz Those who are forced? Jun 10 04:48
ZiggyFish dsmith_: i thought the same thing Jun 10 04:48
schestowitz Apple is pulling an ugly one. Jun 10 04:48
dsmith_ <—not forced Jun 10 04:48
dsmith_ I can make FF look like safai if I so desired Jun 10 04:48
ZiggyFish schestowitz: apple is trying to get people switch Jun 10 04:48
schestowitz Yes, I know, but Apple relies on iTunes zombies who just click OK to anything. Jun 10 04:48
schestowitz Yes,, FF has had Safari like themes for many years. Jun 10 04:49
ZiggyFish Apple’s Gamble: Push Safari to Windows Users via Software Updates. Did it Work? <http://marketshare.hitslink.com/report.as… Jun 10 04:49
schestowitz I made one myself. I’ll get the URL: Jun 10 04:49
schestowitz http://schestowitz.com/Software/RoyZilla/ Jun 10 04:50
schestowitz HitsLink uses a particular odd population of sites. It should be considered inaccurate. It deviates widely from other surveys. Mac users love it though. Jun 10 04:51
ZiggyFish the funny thing is the Sefari engine is open source Jun 10 04:51
schestowitz Well, yes, but it took some feet-grabbing, I think. Jun 10 04:51
ZiggyFish it’s under the GPL Jun 10 04:51
schestowitz There was a KDE-Apple confrontation — however gentle. Jun 10 04:52
schestowitz It is now… yes. I can’t remember the entire saga. Jun 10 04:52
schestowitz Konqueror has Webkit as an option now. Jun 10 04:52
ZiggyFish Epiphany developers provide an experimental build of Epiphany 2.21.4 using the WebKit Jun 10 04:53
schestowitz Dependence on Apple, eh? I guess the GPL provides sufficient protection. What version of the GPL is it, I wonder. Jun 10 04:54
schestowitz While KHTML is likely on its way to v3, I’m not sure Apple will have to follow suit. Jun 10 04:55
ZiggyFish good question Jun 10 04:55
ZiggyFish v2 Jun 10 04:55
schestowitz The issue is that Webkit spreads. I don’t know if you read this, but FF might be Webkit bound too. Jun 10 04:55
ZiggyFish KHTML = GNU Lesser General Public License Jun 10 04:55
schestowitz Yes, but likely to be LGPLv3 later, just like OOo Jun 10 04:56
ZiggyFish FF uses the Gecko Jun 10 04:56
schestowitz With growing pains as I understand it. Jun 10 04:56
ZiggyFish engine Jun 10 04:56
schestowitz Let me find a link Jun 10 04:57
schestowitz I can’t find what I read at the time, but these come up: 1) http://www.allpeers.com/blog/… and 2) http://www.linux-mag.com/id/4144 (from Novell’s Zonker, albeit before he joined the company) Jun 10 05:00
ZiggyFish I think that was fixed in Gecko 1.9 (which is what FF 3 now uses) Jun 10 05:01
ZiggyFish One main initiative in 1.9 is an overhaul of the graphics infrastructure, replacing the platforms’ API, with cairo for all graphics outputs.[8][9] This is expected to improve 2D graphics capabilities and, via glitz, provide accelerated graphics on 3D graphics hardware. It also results in a single rendering pipeline for HTML and CSS, canvas and SVG, so that SVG effects can be applied to HTML content. Using cairo will also all Jun 10 05:01
ZiggyFish ow to output the graphics to formats such as Portable Network Graphics (PNG) and Portable Document Format (PDF), allow users to export Web content in these formats. Jun 10 05:01
schestowitz This got me thinking. About 6 months ago, the man behind KHTML got promoted to VP at Trolltech, IIRC. So he’s now at Nokia, which is the same company which along with Apple shot down Ogg out of HTML5. The guy from Nokia was a former Microsoft employee. Jun 10 05:02
ZiggyFish yeah Jun 10 05:06
schestowitz News just in: http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquir… (seems like getting away with corruption is possible owing to the burden of legal expenses) Jun 10 05:07
ZiggyFish lol Jun 10 05:20
schestowitz it sums up the whole mess perfectly. See justice, as long as you are rich. Get away with corruption, as long as you are rich and can control the government, panels, etc. Jun 10 05:21
schestowitz “Williams said there was still a case for the UKUUG’s appeal on the grounds that there had been “procedural irregularities” in the BSI’s decision to back OOXML. The BSI had supported the Microsoft standard after clearing a consensus vote in its favour among members. The UKUUG told the court there had been no consensus because one member, IBM’s Ian Larner, had abstained after long opposition to OOXML’s ratification.” Jun 10 05:21
schestowitz OBS: what a world we live in… “buyers will have a choice of Linux or Windows XP operating systems, but so far Acer has not said if Linux choosers will be penalised with higher pricing.” http://www.australianit.news.com.au/story…  _Penalised?_ Jun 10 05:30
ZiggyFish schestowitz: In my country you can’t find a single Linux PC sold in you local mall Jun 10 05:36
ZiggyFish *your Jun 10 05:36
schestowitz Tesco sells them here, but it doesn’t put them up on display.. Another new find: “Neelam Dhawan, Managing Director of Microsoft India, will leave the company as of 30 June. Some media sources cite the Indian ooxml debacle as a reason.” http://www.noooxml.org/forum/t-6… Where is arebenti? He was in this channel the other day. I think he’s wrong. Jun 10 05:39
ZiggyFish In relation to the failure of Microsoft India to get a positive vote outcome Neelam Dhawan’s bail out casts a negative light on the company. If standard setting gets performance based and a standard is not let through due to its technical merits but the fear of managing staff to lose its position it comes at no surprise that the management will fight with all means for the adoption of suboptimal solutions. Microsoft India ev Jun 10 05:43
ZiggyFish en filed a complaint against the standard body No vote that caused the outrage. Jun 10 05:43
ZiggyFish lo Jun 10 05:43
schestowitz Seems like a runaway from the corruption. Neelam took another Microsoft India senior out… wait, I’ll get the link… Jun 10 05:46
schestowitz http://minimsft.blogspot.com/2008/05/whats-u… Never forget the NGOs.( http://www.linux.com/feature/128528 )  Microsoft exploited no-profits to loot the country, which I find sickening. Also see: http://www.indiadaily.com/editor… Jun 10 05:48
ZiggyFish this is funny Jun 10 05:55
ZiggyFish VMware, Microsoft or Citrix — who’s winning the app virtualization war? <http://www.computerworld.com/action/art… Jun 10 05:56
ZiggyFish Microsoft said last month that it had sold 6.5 million licenses of its Microsoft Desktop Optimization Pack (MDOP), its bundle of desktop and application virtualization software available only to enterprise customers subscribing to its Software Assurance program. Jun 10 05:56
ZiggyFish “Saying you’ve sold 6.5 million MDOP licenses is like claiming 40% of consumers are using Vista today,” he said. Jun 10 05:56
ZiggyFish By contrast, VMware’s competing ThinApp application had slightly more than 1 million users when VMware bought its maker, Thinstall Inc., in January, according to Ed Albanese, senior product manager at VMware. He declined to provide an updated figure on the number of users of ThinApp, for which VMware announced a major new release today. Jun 10 05:56
ZiggyFish Madden says Microsoft’s Application Virtualization is “undoubtedly more popular than ThinApp. But is it 6.5 to 1? That’s probably a stretch. It’s probably more like 4 to 1.” Jun 10 05:56
ZiggyFish If you think Redmond is exaggerating, take a look at the numbers Citrix has bandied about in relation to its equivalent product, Xen Desktop. Citrix bought XenSource Inc. in August. Since then, it has claimed that its XenApp application virtualization software has 70 million users – or nearly 11 times Microsoft’s count. Jun 10 05:56
ZiggyFish “They’ve taken their legacy server application and thrown in the capability to stream applications virtually,” he said. “So technically, there are 70 million users authorized to use XenApp, but only a couple of million are probably actually using it.” Jun 10 05:57
schestowitz Microsoft always lies. Jun 10 05:58
ZiggyFish yes Jun 10 05:58
schestowitz Look at the Comes vs Microsoft memo I’ll show in a moment. Jun 10 05:58
schestowitz They also got slapped for faking Silverlight adoption. They fight the chicken and egg trap using lies, lies, lies. Jun 10 05:58
ZiggyFish Rule one when dealing with Microsoft, they’re lying and while you’re listening to the their lies your attention is being diverted while they burn down your house and kidnap your children. Jun 10 06:00
schestowitz Hold on. BTW, they used their shills at the Yankee Group too in order to lie about VMWare. Yankee was forced to pull down the propaganda, but Microsoft kept a copy of it on its site. Wait, I’ll find you the memo. Jun 10 06:00
ZiggyFish except this time they kidnaping Linux Jun 10 06:00
schestowitz Search this one for MSDN: http://www.groklaw.net/article… Jun 10 06:02
schestowitz Selective snippets (from Microsoft): “Jihad is a road trip. in which an evangelist visits a large number of ISVs one-on-one to convince them to take some specific action. The classic Jihad is ne focused on getting Tier A ISVs to commit to supporting a given technology by signing the technology’s Letter of Agreement (LOA – see above).” Jun 10 06:02
schestowitz “Working behind the scenes to orchestrate “independent” praise of our technology, and damnation of the enemy’s, is a key evangelism function during the Slog. “Independent” analyst’s report should be issued, praising your technology and damning the competitors (or ignoring them). “Independent” consultants should write columns and articles” Jun 10 06:03
ZiggyFish lol Jun 10 06:04
schestowitz Just found an answer to your older question: “Linux drives the world’s fastest computer” http://reallylinux.com/do… Jun 10 06:15
ZiggyFish thanks Jun 10 06:16
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dsmith_ wow Jun 10 06:37
dsmith_ helmer cluster is something Jun 10 06:37
schestowitz Rings a bell. Jun 10 06:37
PetoKraus morning Jun 10 06:37
schestowitz Early. Morning. Jun 10 06:37
schestowitz Microsoft is kaput (gradually): http://weblog.infoworld.com/enterpris… Even Randall Kennedy trahses Windows now that it’s dying. He used to criticise Linux. Jun 10 06:38
PetoKraus :) Jun 10 06:39
PetoKraus but the post is nice Jun 10 06:39
dsmith_ boy, am I glad I learned Linux Jun 10 06:40
dsmith_ Now we learn that there’s no point in waiting for Windows 7 because, according to Microsoft, “it’ll be just like Vista.” Jun 10 06:40
dsmith_ vista…vista..vista Jun 10 06:40
schestowitz that’s not new really. WIndiws 7 is rebranded SP2 and Xerox like (1980s) touchscreen support, assuming you have the h/W.. Jun 10 06:41
PetoKraus i see it’s the perfect OS for XO2 Jun 10 06:47
ZiggyFish schestowitz: isn’t vista a rebranded xp SP2? Jun 10 06:48
ZiggyFish so Windows 7 OS a SP on an SP Jun 10 06:49
ZiggyFish :P Jun 10 06:49
schestowitz Yes, that’s what myself and others have said since 2005. Jun 10 06:49
schestowitz Longhorn got thrown away in 2005 (Microsoft issued a C&D against some folks who tried to bring it back in 2007). Vista is XP with a coat of paint, DRM ‘enhancements’ and a bunch of make believe \added value’ gizmos. It’s not even more secure. They rushed it out the door, which in retrospect was a colossal mistake. Jun 10 06:51
schestowitz Re: “sp on an sp”, there was an interesting interview with Jim “we need to slaughter Novell” Allchin last year. He talked about renaming SPs as though they are separate releases. Jun 10 06:52
ZiggyFish lol Jun 10 06:53
PetoKraus well that’s probably a good idea. Imagine W2k, W2k1, W2k2, W2k3… Jun 10 06:53
ZiggyFish They rushed Vista out the door 3 years late. Jun 10 06:53
ZiggyFish lol Jun 10 06:54
ZiggyFish Maybe they do it on kernel version (they are up to NT6) Jun 10 06:55
schestowitz Did you see the 2003 demo? Wait, I’ll fetch because it’s hilarious. Jun 10 06:55
ZiggyFish Now look at Linux still on v2 Jun 10 06:55
schestowitz Ladies and gents, welcome to 2003: http://www.youtube.com/wat… Jun 10 06:55
dsmith_ you know they had some guys working on a open version of longhorn Jun 10 06:56
dsmith_ till MS killed it Jun 10 06:56
PetoKraus flash? :? Jun 10 06:56
schestowitz Yes, sorry. Should we ogg it? Jun 10 06:58
schestowitz Can’t wait until October…………… 2003. Jun 10 06:58
dsmith_ nice demo Jun 10 06:58
dsmith_ but *thats* not anything like vista Jun 10 06:58
schestowitz Haha. No… Jun 10 06:59
ZiggyFish that looks better than vista Jun 10 06:59
schestowitz Vapourware Jun 10 06:59
PetoKraus did you see Jun 10 06:59
dsmith_ longhorn reloaded thast it Jun 10 06:59
PetoKraus the 2 versions? Jun 10 06:59
PetoKraus xD Jun 10 07:00
PetoKraus like, the two boxes only, @ the end of the video Jun 10 07:00
schestowitz Imagine a conversation in 2002: “we should really try Mandrike 9. KDE 3 is maturing”. Boss replies: “No, no… look what’s coming from Microsoft next year” *points at demo* Jun 10 07:01
dsmith_ lol Jun 10 07:01
dsmith_ dumb boss Jun 10 07:01
ZiggyFish lol Jun 10 07:01
schestowitz Bill Gates will sell you a dream. Jun 10 07:01
schestowitz Did you know Surface was going to be scraped for becoming the failure that it currently is? Only Bill Gates kept it alive. He wanted to sell us a dream. Jun 10 07:02
ZiggyFish schestowitz: lol, you spelt mandrake as, a cross between Mandrake and Mandriva Jun 10 07:02
schestowitz Mr. Candy Man… a shame really that he’ll retire to just sign more checks. Seen a moment ago: http://linuxlock.blogspot.com/2008… “First off, I have been asked by Christian not to name the school. Microsoft is terribly sensitive to the loss of any school in California, as they have to pay for millions in replacement equipment and software due to a court order.” Jun 10 07:02
ZiggyFish schestowitz: Surface is an old technology (around 25 years old) Jun 10 07:03
schestowitz Yes, done with Linux by at least two researchers (independently). Jun 10 07:04
schestowitz I’ll fetch links Jun 10 07:04
schestowitz Microsoft Rips off Researchers at Pompeu Fabra University of Barcelona: http://dthomasdigital.wordpress.com/2007/06/22/mic… Jun 10 07:05
PetoKraus man i hate firefox since i started using epiphany :/ Jun 10 07:05
schestowitz Jeff Han’s Research Ripped by Microsoft Surface?: http://www.jorispoort.com/2007/05/jef… Jun 10 07:05
ZiggyFish I know Motorola was released before it before Surface Jun 10 07:05
schestowitz Microsoft Surface idea not that new? : http://www.tgdaily.com/conten… Jun 10 07:05
schestowitz Microsoft’s Surface is evidence that Redmond is losing it: http://www.robneville.net/rants/microsofts-… Jun 10 07:05
schestowitz Microsoft’s Robbie Bach ‘thought about killing’ Surface: http://news.cnet.com/8301-10784… “Surface did have one important cheerleader: Bill Gates.” Jun 10 07:05
schestowitz Bruce Byfield has just published a piece on GNewSense: http://itmanagement.earthweb.com/… This I did not know: “GNewSense began at a conference in Tunis in 2005 when Paul O’Malley heard Mark Shuttleworth and Richard Stallman talking about the possibility of a politically free version of Ubuntu…” Jun 10 07:07
schestowitz Mark Shuttleworth is getting challenged by BN.com readers at the moment. http://boycottnovell.com/2008/06… Jun 10 07:08
PetoKraus hehe, nice benchmark of distributions Jun 10 07:11
PetoKraus http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=… Jun 10 07:11
schestowitz Yes, Phoronix has a channel now too (announced yesterday). It was interesting that Michael was asked to create a channel around the same time that I was asked too. It’s like IRC makes a comeback or something. Jun 10 07:13
schestowitz I told him before that the benchmark should not involve brute-force kernel-dependent stuff. He’s just gauging very similar or identical components, so he measures noise without repeating experiments for error bars (standard deviation). Jun 10 07:15
PetoKraus yup Jun 10 07:17
PetoKraus i’ve noticed as well, the results are VERY kernel dependant Jun 10 07:17
schestowitz BTW, speaking of Phoronix, I read that “the RadeonHD guys do hate Novell too actually. It’s so hard for them with order procurements. It took them 4 months for “processing” when they needed a new monitor.” Jun 10 07:17
ZiggyFish it looks like ubuntu won the benchmark Jun 10 07:18
PetoKraus i mean, on my livecd is a kernel, which is made for troughput – and the system is compiled for P3 optimizations only – and it still beats my fine-tuned desktop gentoo amd64 with C2D optimizations…. Jun 10 07:18
PetoKraus ZiggyFish: only because gentoo is missing :P Jun 10 07:18
ZiggyFish true Jun 10 07:18
schestowitz Tweaking is easy. Let me find you something that shows why it’s all flawed. Jun 10 07:19
PetoKraus k Jun 10 07:19
PetoKraus i should really update my project, duh Jun 10 07:19
ZiggyFish but that’s the power of Linux, you can make it as big as you want or as small as you want Jun 10 07:19
schestowitz Lies, damn lies, and stats. http://www.itweb.co.za/sections/… (Outrage at Microsoft’s independent, yet sponsored NT 4.0/Linux researchOutrage at Microsoft’s independent, yet sponsored NT 4.0/Linux research) Microsoft: “Microsoft did sponsor the benchmark testing and the NT server was better tuned than the Linux one.” Jun 10 07:20
PetoKraus http://www.linuxloop.com/news/wp-c… Jun 10 07:21
ZiggyFish lol Jun 10 07:22
schestowitz Heh. When LinuxLoop does the scanning of comiics, the quality is mildly irritating. Jun 10 07:22
PetoKraus yes. Jun 10 07:24
PetoKraus and the artwork even more Jun 10 07:24
schestowitz Another Microsoft fake ‘open-source’ I came across moments ago: Jun 10 07:24
schestowitz http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/zdne… Jun 10 07:24
schestowitz They do the same thing with OOXML, using some ADDONS that they call open-source to try and associate OOXML with open source. In this case it’s the SharePoint lock-in. Wait until they do some marketing blitz that’s intended to call “7″ open. Jun 10 07:25
PetoKraus well, they actually may do that to scare people off  buying it instead of vista Jun 10 07:29
PetoKraus “W7 will be open, so it will suck, so, don’t buy it, go for vista.” Jun 10 07:29
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ZiggyFish another IIS attack, http://www.itnews.com.au/N… (Wal-mart got attacked (which uses IIS 6.0)) Jun 10 07:32
PetoKraus haha. Jun 10 07:33
schestowitz The SQL Server injections caught 500,000 IIS sites with their pants down a month ago (just over a month). Jun 10 07:34
ZiggyFish they had a huge attack a couple of months ago. (SQL injection attack aimed at MS SQL) Jun 10 07:34
PetoKraus i hope my bank doesn’t run IIS Jun 10 07:35
schestowitz On the other hand, phpbb was attacked also, but that’s app-level. Jun 10 07:35
schestowitz <PetoKraus>, never mind the bank. How about your life?  http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/200… Dread the thought of your doctor tapping stuff away, putting it on a platform that’s claimed to be a zombie 40% of the time (USA Today) Jun 10 07:37
ZiggyFish :(, Icahn steps up attack on Yahoo board <http://www.itnews.com.au/News/N… Jun 10 07:37
schestowitz There were stories about hospitals that became botnets, even one in Seattle, IIRC. Jun 10 07:38
PetoKraus schestowitz: ha. Jun 10 07:38
PetoKraus these are data, which should not be on the internet Jun 10 07:39
schestowitz With Windows, you _must_ assume that all recorded data can and will be shared with uninvited intruders. Some months ago I believe it was Gartner (Microsoft’s Partner Group) that said only about 10% of the data theft incidents get reported. Others are concealed. The same goes for banks. Halifax came under fire recently and online banking crime rose 8000% between2006 and 2007. Jun 10 07:39
PetoKraus umm Jun 10 07:40
schestowitz It should be on the Internet, just not on Windows. Jun 10 07:40
ZiggyFish schestowitz: that’s why I don’t use Internet banking Jun 10 07:40
PetoKraus well about internet banking Jun 10 07:40
PetoKraus that’s money Jun 10 07:40
PetoKraus you can sue the bank, you’ll win Jun 10 07:41
schestowitz Not quite. Jun 10 07:41
ZiggyFish when they move their severs to Linux, I might consider it Jun 10 07:41
PetoKraus but what can you do when someone gets your medical data? Jun 10 07:41
schestowitz Here in the UK they have a new policy that says if you’re not protected (firewall, AV, etc), you are liable. Jun 10 07:41
schestowitz Which was funny because, as Glyn Moody pointed out, does that make Linux users liable? They don’t need that stuff. Others suggest that Live CDs should be distributed by banks. Jun 10 07:42
PetoKraus and they pick the firewalls and antivirus as well? Jun 10 07:42
ZiggyFish PetoKraus: I’ve haven’t been to a doctor for 4 years Jun 10 07:42
PetoKraus ZiggyFish: :D Jun 10 07:42
PetoKraus i just don’t trust web for holding of secure data Jun 10 07:42
PetoKraus well, data which should be secured Jun 10 07:43
PetoKraus cause, everything will get hacked, eventually Jun 10 07:43
schestowitz By whom? There’s also social  enginering. Jun 10 07:43
PetoKraus by whom? just because it’s there, i believe Jun 10 07:43
PetoKraus they hacked our national security bureau recently (a year ago) Jun 10 07:44
schestowitz Even in non-electronic form, it’s not secure. Jun 10 07:44
PetoKraus yes, that’s true Jun 10 07:44
PetoKraus but you can at least lock it down physically Jun 10 07:44
ZiggyFish schestowitz: yeah, but it requires the person to actually have access the the data Jun 10 07:44
schestowitz Schneier writes some good stuff on that topic. Jun 10 07:44
PetoKraus i’ll upload you an essay what happened here a while ago Jun 10 07:44
schestowitz There’s also the option of bribing someone , <ZiggyFish> . Jun 10 07:45
ZiggyFish true Jun 10 07:45
schestowitz It does happen. That’s why Microsoft handing out USB back doors  to policemen is stupid, stupid, stupid. Jun 10 07:45
schestowitz How long before the blackhat community gets hold of one of these and studies it? Jun 10 07:45
PetoKraus mind odt? Jun 10 07:46
PetoKraus or rather pdf Jun 10 07:46
schestowitz ODT is good. Jun 10 07:46
ZiggyFish schestowitz: that doesn’t bother Linux (give people more reason to choose linux) Jun 10 07:46
schestowitz PDF also good. Jun 10 07:46
PetoKraus i preffer pdf for publishing… Jun 10 07:47
PetoKraus it ensures that it’ll display correctly Jun 10 07:47
PetoKraus and print correctly Jun 10 07:47
ZiggyFish when I send my resume to employees, I usually send it as PDF Jun 10 07:47
PetoKraus me as well Jun 10 07:47
PetoKraus it’s dead easy to click export… Jun 10 07:48
ZiggyFish they can’t read ODT so, the next best thing is PDF Jun 10 07:48
PetoKraus http://pk.gjhak.sk/.storage/pete… Jun 10 07:48
schestowitz I open PDFs quickly, but I don’t know… I don’t feel like I /control/ the text. Jun 10 07:48
schestowitz Adobe has the power. I can only /view/… Jun 10 07:48
schestowitz Funny feeling. Jun 10 07:48
schestowitz Like DRM. Jun 10 07:48
ZiggyFish schestowitz: PDF is a ISO standard ( I know it doesn’t mean much), also they publish their documents on their website Jun 10 07:49
PetoKraus well, I like pdf because you can forbid printing and copying of text Jun 10 07:50
PetoKraus which is somewhat required to comply with school plagiarism policies Jun 10 07:50
ZiggyFish true Jun 10 07:50
PetoKraus this way i can redistribute my old lab reports for my younger schoolmates Jun 10 07:50
schestowitz haha. Jun 10 07:51
PetoKraus i tend to make fun from stupid assignments. Jun 10 07:51
ZiggyFish lol Jun 10 07:51
schestowitz That’s just like the DRM scam. Any person would just grab some software like a screengrabber and do OCR. Jun 10 07:51
PetoKraus sure Jun 10 07:51
schestowitz You only punish the honest people, not plagiarists Jun 10 07:52
PetoKraus but my hands are clean then ;) Jun 10 07:52
ZiggyFish but it makes it difficult for them to do that Jun 10 07:52
PetoKraus honest people don’t need to copy my results Jun 10 07:52
PetoKraus honest people use it as a reference (as to, what’s wrong :D) Jun 10 07:52
schestowitz This is insanely stupid. Why don’t they just guage their eyes instead? It’s more effective. *rolls eyes* Jun 10 07:53
schestowitz gouge I meant. Jun 10 07:53
PetoKraus ? Jun 10 07:53
schestowitz Like cutting people’s ears to ensure they cannot /capture/ audio. Maybe a cognitive intervantion also. Jun 10 07:53
PetoKraus well Jun 10 07:53
schestowitz intervention. Jun 10 07:53
PetoKraus the point is, I could get punished for helping them Jun 10 07:54
PetoKraus they could get punished for quoting me Jun 10 07:54
PetoKraus i want to help them Jun 10 07:54
schestowitz Eben Moglen: “Everybody is connected to everybody else, all data that can be shared will be shared will be shared: get used to it.” Jun 10 07:54
PetoKraus when someone has a problem, i always discuss it with him/her Jun 10 07:54
PetoKraus but since lab reports are something you get your marks on, and it should be your own work Jun 10 07:55
schestowitz Yes. Replication of things is still unproductive in many cases and restricting sharing an impossibility and a nuisance to everyone involved. Jun 10 07:55
PetoKraus i don’t think you should be able to get marks for my work :) And i don’t want you to get MY marks as well xD Jun 10 07:55
PetoKraus but we are not talking about industry area now, we are talking about school, academics… Jun 10 07:56
schestowitz True, which is another reason to consider doing unique projects rather than have entire classes doing massive multi-player duplication extravaganza Jun 10 07:56
PetoKraus well, you HAVE to learn to do it somehow Jun 10 07:57
PetoKraus *how to do it Jun 10 07:57
ZiggyFish to hard to mark Jun 10 07:57
schestowitz Yes, but people can be taught by doing unique things. At unversities, people undertake projects. Jun 10 07:57
PetoKraus in third year. Jun 10 07:57
schestowitz Yes, but learning is done with input. Output can be unique. Jun 10 07:58
PetoKraus sure Jun 10 07:58
PetoKraus that’s exactly why i don’t encourage copying of my lab works Jun 10 07:58
schestowitz Aha! Jun 10 07:58
PetoKraus if i was completely sure they are perfect, i would not put them up in the first place (:P), and to anyone who whould ask, i’d hand a copy Jun 10 07:58
PetoKraus but this way, my mates know, that they are average mostly… they are guidelines. Jun 10 07:59
schestowitz It’s like sharing and not sharing. Taking away of abilities… crippling in other words. Jun 10 07:59
schestowitz For the sake of education, supposedly. Jun 10 07:59
PetoKraus moreover, no one ever asked for printed/not-restricted version Jun 10 08:00
PetoKraus yes, it is crippling, and not sharing Jun 10 08:01
ZiggyFish when I was in doing my diploma, the teacher would put errors in the code, so that we would be able to copy Jun 10 08:01
schestowitz I can imagine what RMS would say about this because he encourages the opposite Jun 10 08:01
PetoKraus but there are, in my opinion, perfectly valid reasons to do that Jun 10 08:01
PetoKraus yes, i can imagine as well Jun 10 08:01
PetoKraus he would ask me to not care about school’s plagiarism policy Jun 10 08:02
schestowitz Ha. Yeah… Jun 10 08:03
schestowitz There are some more moronic things to ignore though, such as software patents. Jun 10 08:03
PetoKraus we’ve got a fictional classmate Jun 10 08:04
PetoKraus he submitted an essay Jun 10 08:04
PetoKraus copied off the first result from google Jun 10 08:04
PetoKraus he got kicked off the school even before it was obvious he’s imaginary xD Jun 10 08:04
schestowitz Can you ever prevent such a thing? That’s the key question to address. If not, a Plan B is needed. Jun 10 08:05
ZiggyFish tackle that problem when it comes Jun 10 08:05
PetoKraus I should get moving. Jun 10 08:06
ZiggyFish sure, see ya Jun 10 08:06
schestowitz See you Jun 10 08:06
PetoKraus last note, what i don’t get is Jun 10 08:07
PetoKraus how they forbid you to take pictures at gigs Jun 10 08:07
PetoKraus i mean, why? why does it matter? Jun 10 08:08
schestowitz Oh, didn’t you watch the news? Jun 10 08:08
PetoKraus well, not really Jun 10 08:08
PetoKraus i am not in britain for 2 months Jun 10 08:08
schestowitz Microsoft patented a technology for disabling cameras where photography is not allows. Jun 10 08:09
PetoKraus we’ve got our own MP-signed-another-MP-on-presence-chart problem Jun 10 08:09
ZiggyFish brb Jun 10 08:09
PetoKraus haha Jun 10 08:09
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schestowitz allowed. Imagine a scenario where a nurse wheels out a patient to the street for enablement. Jun 10 08:09
PetoKraus well, i guess that’s the thing they’ve been putting into my camera for so long… Jun 10 08:11
PetoKraus so it’ll be like… wireless emmiters which will contact some embedded chipset on your camera, which will say Jun 10 08:11
schestowitz Same with radio tuners. Jun 10 08:11
PetoKraus “FU, no pictures here”, and since it’s made by MS Jun 10 08:11
PetoKraus it’ll be hacked in a year? Jun 10 08:12
schestowitz It can be ‘licensed’ by MS or comply with ACTA-type things. It’s Orwellian stuff becoming a relity Jun 10 08:12
PetoKraus right Jun 10 08:12
PetoKraus what about analog cameras? Jun 10 08:12
schestowitz They phase them out or pardon these. Maybe we’ll see a lot more people with analogues… Jun 10 08:13
PetoKraus next step will be to forbid them. Jun 10 08:13
PetoKraus i mean, sales. Jun 10 08:13
PetoKraus duh. this is scary. Jun 10 08:13
schestowitz Same with physical tuners and old radios, just like cassette tapes. Jun 10 08:13
PetoKraus europe, hold on :/ Jun 10 08:13
schestowitz It’s dicussed in the EU. Such stuff… secret meeting in Switzerland recently. Jun 10 08:14
PetoKraus on one hand EU brought very good things to the countries Jun 10 08:14
PetoKraus on the other hand, it makes lobbying excercises much easier Jun 10 08:14
schestowitz Public opinion matters not. Just like the Novell deal and the reduction. They decided ‘for us’ that software patents need honouring and Microsoft ‘owns’ Linux. Jun 10 08:14
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PetoKraus i still don’t get who does it benefit Jun 10 08:16
ZiggyFish back Jun 10 08:16
PetoKraus to forbid people from taking pictures on gigs Jun 10 08:16
ZiggyFish no one I would guess Jun 10 08:17
schestowitz Which spe… oh, well, it’s a matter of defending imaginary property Jun 10 08:17
PetoKraus professional photographers? no, they always get the best spots. The band? No, they give you autograms after the show and are willing to take a picture with you Jun 10 08:17
schestowitz In the US you are forbidden from taking pictures of some cars in the streets even. Jun 10 08:17
ZiggyFish lol Jun 10 08:17
PetoKraus i think in UK you can take picture of everything you can see, unless stated otherwise Jun 10 08:17
ZiggyFish schestowitz: is that car porn :P Jun 10 08:17
PetoKraus xD Jun 10 08:18
PetoKraus illegal car porn! Jun 10 08:18
ZiggyFish lol Jun 10 08:18
schestowitz The car must be over 18 years old. Jun 10 08:18
PetoKraus i just don’t get how can a law passed in the US Jun 10 08:19
PetoKraus affect whole world. (DMCA) Jun 10 08:19
ZiggyFish In Aus, you can take a picture of everything, except a child Jun 10 08:19
ZiggyFish PetoKraus: it’s the US, it doesn’t have to make sense Jun 10 08:19
PetoKraus pardon me, but when exactly did we hand the power to the stupid? Jun 10 08:20
schestowitz It’s imperialism. Jun 10 08:20
PetoKraus was it WW2? Jun 10 08:20
ZiggyFish no comment Jun 10 08:20
PetoKraus :P Jun 10 08:20
schestowitz Some people who read this would be offended. But each country has its share of fools and here too we have some people who merely serve the Bilderbergers and others. Jun 10 08:21
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PetoKraus well one who gets offended on absolutely obvious ironization…. well, good luck to him, he’ll have it tough. Jun 10 08:22
PetoKraus every country has stupid politicians Jun 10 08:23
PetoKraus they are elected by the stupid people in the country. Jun 10 08:23
ZiggyFish true Jun 10 08:23
schestowitz Not so sure. Jun 10 08:23
PetoKraus the problem starts, when the stupid politician achieves better results than the other one Jun 10 08:23
PetoKraus which happens in slovakia right now. Jun 10 08:23
schestowitz The elections are partly controlled by other focused that drive the country and no matter who gets elected, the influence comes from the wealthy. Jun 10 08:24
ZiggyFish it happens in Australia too Jun 10 08:24
schestowitz welcome,  tacone Jun 10 08:24
tacone hi roy :) Jun 10 08:24
tacone I am not sure I presented myself in the previous days Jun 10 08:25
PetoKraus well, not in last 6 Jun 10 08:26
schestowitz I’m not sure you have, please do. :-) Jun 10 08:26
schestowitz <PetoKraus>, it’s the same situation in all scales. Even in Novell and Microsoft you have some greedy ** making decisions that those at the bottom disagree with but must accept/obey. Jun 10 08:26
PetoKraus ah finally i get it! jesus christ i am stupid :/ Jun 10 08:27
tacone I’m just a boycottnovell.com regular reader. I live in italy, and I am mainly concerned with Mono being adopted in gnome Jun 10 08:27
schestowitz I know about actual Novell employees who displike the company but just stay there for the checks. Jun 10 08:27
PetoKraus friend’s camera takes pictures in different aspect ratio :/ Jun 10 08:27
PetoKraus schestowitz: i read it “chicks” Jun 10 08:27
ZiggyFish lol Jun 10 08:28
schestowitz Well, there’s that former Novell employee who left a comment in BN.com about mormons, not just chicks. He doesn’t like the company. He thinks it’s like a cult. Jun 10 08:29
schestowitz But that’s just the Utah area, which is not where the management is  (MA). Jun 10 08:30
ZiggyFish Boycott spotlights antivirus testing issues < http://www.securityfocus.com/news/11522?ref=rss > Jun 10 08:41
ZiggyFish The disagreement between antivirus software makers and the firms that test their products took a dramatic turn last week when one company, Trend Micro, told reporters it would boycott a popular certification in the future. Jun 10 08:41
schestowitz *LOL* It’s Trend Micro which is boycotted for software patent harassment against FOSS. It’s like seeing Microsoft protesting against Google monopoly. Jun 10 08:43
ZiggyFish lol Jun 10 08:43
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ZiggyFish lol Jun 10 11:37
ZiggyFish Microsoft files 21 piracy suits Jun 10 11:38
ZiggyFish it urges consumers to call 1-800-RU-LEGIT Jun 10 11:38
PetoKraus russian legit? Jun 10 11:38
ZiggyFish lol Jun 10 11:38
ZiggyFish R = are U = you ( I think) Jun 10 11:39
PetoKraus that’s stupid. Jun 10 11:39
PetoKraus i don’t have “legit” on my cell phone either Jun 10 11:39
ZiggyFish me neither nor do i have it on my house phone Jun 10 11:40
PetoKraus i don’t have a house phone. stays true. Jun 10 11:40
PetoKraus jesus holy fkn christ! i am compiling the kernel on ubuntu for…. half an hour already?!? Jun 10 11:44
ZiggyFish did you use the -j option? Jun 10 11:44
PetoKraus it’s ubuntu Jun 10 11:45
PetoKraus they have the make-kpkg thing Jun 10 11:45
PetoKraus and i don’t have a clue what’s the computer like. Jun 10 11:45
PetoKraus trying to fix alsa issues… Jun 10 11:45
ZiggyFish oh Jun 10 11:45
ZiggyFish what card Jun 10 11:45
PetoKraus ICH8 Intel HDA Jun 10 11:45
PetoKraus that’s always problem. Jun 10 11:45
ZiggyFish PetoKraus: some one has reported the problem to ubutnu so it may be fixed in a week or two Jun 10 11:47
PetoKraus well Jun 10 11:47
PetoKraus “week or two” Jun 10 11:47
PetoKraus is exactly too much Jun 10 11:47
PetoKraus you don’t generally want to run into problems on first install of GNU/linux after hyping it Jun 10 11:48
ZiggyFish true Jun 10 11:48
PetoKraus !!! man… this is bollocks… Jun 10 11:49
PetoKraus that make-kpkg just crashed Jun 10 11:49
ZiggyFish give me a sec Jun 10 11:49
ZiggyFish and I’ll find some stuff Jun 10 11:49
ZiggyFish before I begin. tell me the output of lspci -nn | grep Audio Jun 10 11:51
PetoKraus 00:1b.0 Audio device [0403]: Intel Corporation 82801H (ICH8 Family) HD Audio Controller [8086:284b] (rev 02) Jun 10 11:53
ZiggyFish this page may help https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Gutsy_Intel_HD_Audio_Controller (I know it’s for gusty but it should still work) Jun 10 11:55
PetoKraus duh Jun 10 11:58
PetoKraus this is madness Jun 10 11:58
ZiggyFish just follow that page Jun 10 11:59
PetoKraus the first one doesn’t work Jun 10 11:59
ZiggyFish try the next one Jun 10 12:01
PetoKraus i’d say Jun 10 12:01
PetoKraus the problem is Jun 10 12:01
PetoKraus that the default kernel Jun 10 12:01
PetoKraus doesn’t have alsa built in Jun 10 12:01
PetoKraus o.O Jun 10 12:01
ZiggyFish don’t know Jun 10 12:02
PetoKraus ok, i’ll do it my way. Jun 10 12:03
ZiggyFish something I would like to do when I get some spare time is make a script that downloads, installs and tests Driver stuff Jun 10 12:03
ZiggyFish it would make installing drivers very easy Jun 10 12:03
ZiggyFish see ya all Jun 10 12:08
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PetoKraus i wonder what’ll be the outcome of OOXML drama Jun 10 12:28
zoobab ISO will just let the standard through Jun 10 13:30
zoobab they are unable to clear their conflicts of interests, see the Norway case Jun 10 13:30
schestowitz Just back from from the gym…  I’ll hopefully find some articles about those 21 lawsuits <ZiggyFish> wrote about. It sounds interesting. Microsoft cracks down on small battling ships (‘pirates’) for extra bash. I reckon that in the next quarter they’ll report another profit collapse and blame ‘pirates’ like they did the last time. Jun 10 13:52
*moparx awakens Jun 10 13:55
schestowitz Look what I just found : http://bluke.blogspot.com/2008/06/b… (  boycott boycottnovell.com ). What da fork? Jun 10 13:56
PetoKraus what the flash! Jun 10 13:58
PetoKraus so basically Jun 10 13:58
zoobab ECIS confirmed this morning that MS appeals to the ECJ on patents Jun 10 13:58
zoobab this is big news Jun 10 13:58
PetoKraus just because you insulted his emplyer Jun 10 13:59
moparx ya.. haha Jun 10 13:59
schestowitz I posted this here before I read it. Just have… Jun 10 13:59
moparx I figured it would be from someone somehow related Jun 10 13:59
zoobab because all the press says they appeal on the “fine”, but in fact they just want certainty to tax Samba and Redhat Jun 10 13:59
PetoKraus that post is… hehe Jun 10 13:59
schestowitz B*stards. They /really/ do need to tax their rivals. SCO 2.0, just as PJ said. Jun 10 14:00
zoobab all those journalists are incompetent Jun 10 14:01
schestowitz About the post, as I understand it (I read it  very quickly), this is the guy responsible for building the sf.net bridge to Microsoft projects. Jun 10 14:01
schestowitz <zoobab>, they read press release, parse and then substitute. Especially the ‘Big Press’ that calls OOXML open source (Reuters) Jun 10 14:02
schestowitz Got URL, ben? Jun 10 14:02
zoobab no just private talks with ECIS Jun 10 14:19
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schestowitz I wrongly misinterpreted “journalists are incompetent” and assumed there was poor reporting about this. Have you written about this in DigMaj? Jun 10 14:25
zoobab http://www.digitalmajority.org/forum… Jun 10 15:14
zoobab not yet Jun 10 15:14
zoobab “The objective of this call for tenders is to establish a framework contract for a single source purchase channel, covering the acquisition of Microsoft software products and licences. The future contractor has to provide a unique interface between Microsoft and the European Institutions.” Jun 10 15:15
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schestowitz They think about switching to GNU/Linux. They already test it. http://ec.europa.eu/idabc/en/document/7565 (EU: Europarlement testing Ubuntu, OpenOffice and Firefox) Jun 10 15:19
schestowitz http://secunia.com/advisories/30576/ ( Novell GroupWise Messenger Client Buffer Overflow Vulnerabilities ) Jun 10 15:22
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Eruaran hi Jun 10 15:39
schestowitz http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/11/technology/11… ( E.U. Snubs Microsoft on Office Systems ) Jun 10 15:49
Eruaran I like Ms. Kroes Jun 10 15:58
schestowitz Ballmer took he out to dinner. *shudder* After doing the same extortion routine over the telephone as he did in Korea around 2006. Jun 10 16:02
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schestowitz http://www.iso.org/iso/pressre… (“If they decide in favour of proceeding, the chairmen of the two boards are required to establish a conciliation panel which will attempt to resolve the appeals. The process could take several months.”) Jun 10 16:07
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Eruaran I’m glad countries have appealed Jun 10 16:35
martinjh99 I wouldn’t touch Office with a 20 foot pole – OpenOffice.org/ODF works for me! :) Jun 10 16:36
Eruaran :) Jun 10 16:37
martinjh99 What’s the going rate for Office 2007 that I’m saving then?? Jun 10 16:38
schestowitz Short- or long-term? Jun 10 16:39
Eruaran I’m waiting for KOffice 2 Jun 10 16:39
martinjh99 long term probably…  Just interested really… Jun 10 16:39
Eruaran I’ve been hearing good things about KOffice 2 Jun 10 16:40
martinjh99 As long as it can read ODF I’ll give it a go on Linux… Jun 10 16:41
schestowitz Depending on your use (e.g. personal versus business versus enterprise) it can anything from hundreds of dollars to thousands. In the long LONG team office suites as a the paradigm that it is could become passe. Jun 10 16:41
martinjh99 Hehe – Well I haven’t got that much money…  Like I said anything free that supports ODF will work for me! Jun 10 16:42
Eruaran Microsoft’s licences are deliberatly geared toward getting people to buy the more expensive option Jun 10 16:42
schestowitz BTW, just spotted Mark Shuttleworth detailed reply to my quick post (which some people took out of context): https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubun… Jun 10 16:42
martinjh99 :) Like you get all the apps in the most expensive version and not much in the cheapest… Jun 10 16:42
schestowitz Most people don’t require this, but Microsoft goes out of its way with marketing. The processing of data is becoming more network-oriented. The ‘fat client’ matters less. Jun 10 16:43
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schestowitz welcome, tacone. Jun 10 16:46
tacone nice to see you again. Jun 10 16:46
schestowitz I’m always connected, even if I’m away. Jun 10 16:46
tacone me too, but I don’t autojoin this channel. Jun 10 16:48
tacone schestowitz: do you believe Shuttleworth about MS Codecs ? Jun 10 16:48
schestowitz Slated got me thinking about only the possibility that Microsoft put pressure on him, but I doubt it. Jun 10 16:50
tacone He’s moving cleverly for now, imho. I hope he just continues this way. Jun 10 16:52
schestowitz New meme just discovered: “open-source standards” http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2008/06…  What is an open-source standards? Is it one that you can modify and redistribute? Is that still a standard? Jun 10 16:52
tacone I guess it’s just journalist bad interpretation or (sic) EU ignorance. Jun 10 16:54
schestowitz Reuters does this too. Twice recently (that I can recall). Jun 10 16:56
schestowitz Microsoft: we’re open source, we’re open source (FOOTNOTE: you need to but proprietary Sharepoint and by “open source” we mean something else): http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Enter… Also: http://www.24-7pressrelease… “Open source timelive time tracking software released by Livetecs.com” – “TimeLive is developed using ASP.Net 2 and Microsoft Aj Jun 10 17:03
schestowitz ax 1.0. For database, timelive is using Microsoft SQL Server 2005 database.” Jun 10 17:03
tacone they’re opensource ? really? all solved then :) Jun 10 17:05
Eruaran Clearly Microsoft doesn’t “get it” Jun 10 17:07
tacone Eruaran: I guess they get everything. and more. Jun 10 17:07
schestowitz It doesn’t want or need to.  It serves its interests because “open source” then loses appeal, added value. That’s why saying GPL or Free software becomes ever more important. Jun 10 17:08
tacone schestowitz: I guess Free software is media-manipulable as well. GPL is better. Jun 10 17:08
Eruaran Microsoft actually believes they can convince free software devs to use, and even depend on their proprietary development tools… They are simply using “open source” as a marketing tool, and they don’t understand who they are marketing to. Jun 10 17:10
Eruaran The only people I can think of who would actually be enthusiastic about this all work for Novell. Jun 10 17:10
Eruaran Came across some FUD from Fahmida Y. Rashid on ChannelWeb today. Jun 10 17:12
Eruaran http://www.crn.com/software/208402802 Jun 10 17:12
Eruaran It takes one of the great strengths of Ubuntu on a Dell system (APT) and makes it sound for all the world like it has all the flaws of a Windows system and more. Jun 10 17:14
**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Jun 10 17:20:48 2008
*Now talking on #boycottnovell Jun 10 17:20
*Topic for #boycottnovell is: Exploring the reality behind exclusionary deals with Microsoft and their subtle (yet severe) implications (publicly logged) Jun 10 17:20
*Topic for #boycottnovell set by schestowitz at Wed Jun 4 09:34:16 2008 Jun 10 17:20
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*tacone has quit (“Going. Much love.”) Jun 10 17:51
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*moparx_ is now known as moparx Jun 10 18:56
*PetoKraus (n=Peter@host-77-247-224-25.isper.sk) has joined #boycottnovell Jun 10 18:58
-christel-[Global Notice] Hi all, We are now able to receive donations via Paypal again and should you wish to make a one-off donation, create a subscription or re-new a previous subscription you can do so using the links at the left-hand sidebar on http://freenode.net Thank you for using freenode and have a great day! Jun 10 20:28
PetoKraus schestowitz: are you here roy? Jun 10 20:32
schestowitz Yes, I am. I also wonder how to regain op. *blush* I’m just posing in BN.com at the moment. Jun 10 20:34
PetoKraus i am trying to get RSS working on my page Jun 10 20:35
PetoKraus but got a valid feed, but…. still, when I open it, it shows only the XML, not as a feed Jun 10 20:35
schestowitz This happened to me recently when I upgraded phpnuke? Any chance it’s related? Jun 10 20:38
PetoKraus well, i am creating a new feed Jun 10 20:38
PetoKraus i don’t know how to create that flashy rss icon you for example got on the address bar Jun 10 20:39
schestowitz That is put at the header to inform the browser. Jun 10 20:40
PetoKraus yeah…. can you find the code for me? Jun 10 20:40
schestowitz Under <head>, put <link rel=”alternate” type=”application/rss+xml” title=”RSS 2.0″ href=”YOUR RSS THINGIE.RSS” /> Jun 10 20:42
PetoKraus cheers man Jun 10 20:43
schestowitz nb Jun 10 20:43
PetoKraus now i need to code something, so I won’t have to update the feed manually Jun 10 20:43
schestowitz That’s why I prefer a CMS. Jun 10 20:44
PetoKraus well, it’s a way Jun 10 20:44
PetoKraus but i want to do it myself, so i can learn something Jun 10 20:45
PetoKraus you know, with python, programming is fun again! Jun 10 20:45
schestowitz Yes, go for it then. Jun 10 20:45
PetoKraus is it ethical to link to other pages from your feed? Jun 10 20:49
PetoKraus xD Jun 10 20:49
PetoKraus you know, it’s a news aggregation… Jun 10 20:49
PetoKraus so basically i put in the feed what I consider important. Though, i guess it depends on the description Jun 10 20:50
*moparx has quit (“leaving”) Jun 10 20:53
schestowitz Yes, LXer does this. Jun 10 20:54
schestowitz They use a redirection though. Jun 10 20:54
PetoKraus hmm this is too difficult to think about today Jun 10 20:55
PetoKraus so, thank you roy ;) Jun 10 20:56
PetoKraus great :) Jun 10 20:59
schestowitz I have fallen so far behind my feeds. Jun 10 20:59
PetoKraus well, slashdot 84 Jun 10 20:59
PetoKraus i blame my girlfriend xD Jun 10 20:59
PetoKraus (anyway, if you wanna see what a monster did you help to create, http://pk.gjhak.sk) Jun 10 21:01
schestowitz Thanks. As soon as I post my pile of selected links. Jun 10 21:01
PetoKraus good night. Jun 10 21:04
schestowitz Ta. Jun 10 21:05
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*ZiggyFish (n=brendan@123-243-163-103.static.tpgi.com.au) has joined #boycottnovell Jun 10 23:24
ZiggyFish good morning Jun 10 23:24
ZiggyFish Some nice stories in the daily Links today Jun 10 23:25
*ZiggyFish has quit (Remote closed the connection) Jun 10 23:33
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