07.19.08

Gemini version available ♊︎

IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: July 12th-18th, 2008

Posted in IRC Logs at 6:38 am by Dr. Roy Schestowitz

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schestowitz Hi, anivar Jul 12 05:25
schestowitz I was just going through an old conversation we had because of a new development. Jul 12 05:26
anivar schestowitz: Jul 12 05:28
anivar what is that Jul 12 05:28
schestowitz http://boycottnovell.com/2008/06/0… Jul 12 05:29
schestowitz They started dumping Microsoft software on SA kids. Jul 12 05:30
schestowitz Brazil hopefully isn’t next: http://aseigo.blogspot.com/2008/… Jul 12 05:30
anivar schestowitz: i will check. I need to leave now. Jul 12 05:35
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schestowitz Funny comment here: “Interesting that SARS uses linux, yet only provide e-filing software for windoze ! ” http://www.tectonic.co.za/?p=2570 Jul 12 12:46
schestowitz There seems to be this complaint against people burying our posts. :-( http://www.fsdaily.com/v… Jul 12 16:19
schestowitz It all started when the OpenSUSE people started their attack on the site. Jul 12 16:19
schestowitz Oh, and some Novell employees too (on the payroll) among them. Not fair. Jul 12 16:20
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RogerBacon hey Jul 12 19:33
schestowitz hey there. Jul 12 20:07
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*Topic for #boycottnovell is: Exploring the reality behind exclusionary deals with Microsoft and their subtle (yet severe) implications (publicly logged) Jul 12 21:24
*Topic for #boycottnovell set by schestowitz at Wed Jun 4 08:34:16 2008 Jul 12 21:24
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*Topic for #boycottnovell is: Exploring the reality behind exclusionary deals with Microsoft and their subtle (yet severe) implications (publicly logged) Jul 13 00:51
*Topic for #boycottnovell set by schestowitz at Wed Jun 4 08:34:16 2008 Jul 13 00:51
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schestowitz tessier: I was away (out of FreeNode) from 10PM-2AM. Did anyone post anything at that time? Or is RogerBacon’s message the last one to come? Thanks. Jul 13 08:12
tessier Nobody posted anything Jul 13 08:12
tessier RogerBacon’s “hey” was the last before your message just now Jul 13 08:13
schestowitz Ta! Jul 13 08:13
schestowitz Rex had you mentioned in COLA yesterday. Microsoft and ActiveX. Jul 13 08:14
tessier Oh really? Jul 13 08:14
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schestowitz I’ve just filed a report about abuse in USNET Jul 13 08:30
schestowitz I don’t think you watch COLA anymore, but there’s been a torrent of highly-cross-posted message that have my name and headers as the sender. Needless to say, it contains all sort of libelous claims. Someone says that the forged messages arrive from altopia.com Jul 13 08:32
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schestowitz anivar: got any news about software patents in India? The Indian press reported on this 2 weeks ago, but OSIndia doesn’t seem to have mentioned it since April. Jul 13 17:47
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anivar schestowitz:  The discussion is still on Jul 13 17:52
anivar schestowitz: but I also not followed it closely recently. and because of other political situations no updates are happening on it Jul 13 17:56
schestowitz It’s very active in Europe at the moment, so I wondered about India. Another important place where this could be pressure for is China. Japan has already given up. Jul 13 17:58
anivar schestowitz: also there is a split in opinion about software patents in NASSCOM the The IT industry association. so their pressure on govt is also not high Jul 13 17:59
anivar Anyway I still feel  condition is not dangerous in india as of now compared to the situation of paent amendment in 2004. Jul 13 18:00
anivar patent amendment Jul 13 18:01
schestowitz I wasn’t following it at the time. It failed in Europe too, but they figures that some years down the line, along with a US economical recession, science has changed Jul 13 18:01
schestowitz Some of Microsoft India’s partners are filing for software patents in the US (USPTO). I caught a couple of examples a few months ago. 3D stuff… Jul 13 18:03
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RogerBacon schestowitz : did you know what is Singularity ? Jul 14 05:21
schestowitz Yes, it’s abandonware. :-) Jul 14 05:22
schestowitz From memory, they release it under a very limited (bogus) shared/open source licence because it’s useless. Jul 14 05:22
schestowitz The rumours used to say it would be a replacement for Windows, but Microsoft now insists it’s just a research project that it wants to make available to academia (free labour) Jul 14 05:23
schestowitz There’s now a new codename. Singularity used to show just what a resource hog Windows had becomes, esp. compared to Linux and BSD. Jul 14 05:23
RogerBacon indeed the source are open but didn’t cheked what is the license Jul 14 05:54
RogerBacon i dont get it, what’s the point of making a managed-code kernel Jul 14 05:55
schestowitz I reckon Microsoft will try to exploit other FOSS projects somehow, if not harm them even more or wrap them up with Mono. Jul 14 05:56
RogerBacon http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/ht… Jul 14 05:58
RogerBacon warning : this site is powered by asp.net ;) Jul 14 05:59
schestowitz The danger comes from the client side, not the server side. Anyway, it’s quite a Microsoft shop… http://toolbar.netcraft.com/si… Jul 14 06:34
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*Topic for #boycottnovell is: Exploring the reality behind exclusionary deals with Microsoft and their subtle (yet severe) implications (publicly logged) Jul 14 10:09
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schestowitz Watch http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2008… I’m not sure if they are bluffing or Linux is too popular. Microsoft already managed to mess with ASUS t the point of making GNU/Linux more expensive than Windows. Jul 14 16:45
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schestowitz There’s another potentially FUDdy at APC Mag (Australia). It’s about ASUS and Linux. Having looked at other sites’ comments, the writers are being accused of sensationalism. Jul 14 17:23
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RogerBacon interresting read about microsoft vs FOSS Jul 14 21:20
RogerBacon http://blogs.zdnet.com/open-so… Jul 14 21:20
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schestowitz http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/3560 C# inching closer to KDE? Jul 15 06:47
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tessier So, not only am I having fun with my Openmoko Freerunner but I just found out that my fiance’s brand new Motorola Z9 runs Linux/Java. Jul 15 08:30
tessier Nothing about the GPL or anything in any of the docs that came with it as far as I can see though. Jul 15 08:31
schestowitz It’s probably quite the exception if it doesn’t run Symbian or a form of Linux these days (mostly secretly, esp. in Asia where there’s the GPL violation problem). Jul 15 09:29
tessier Symbian, Linux, iPhone. Those are the choices these days. Jul 15 10:03
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schestowitz http://www.dividend.com/blog/?p=719 — The financial figures come soon. Since Microsoft has bought so many companies (at the expense of its savings that run dry), revenue will say too little. It’s the sales of Windows and Office that will be interesting and Microsoft will try very hard to divert attention away from this. Jul 15 12:39
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schestowitz That’s why I love Firefox: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-… . Had a flood of SPAM ruining my site last week (example: http://schestowitz.com/Gallery… ). If only there were no zombies, but hope is low… http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/07/… Jul 15 14:51
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schestowitz Béranger writes: “Now, I don’t think Red Hat was paid by those patent trolls. Going forward to invalidate the patents would still have entitled Red Hat to ask for damages, and the public image of Red Hat would have been even better: hey, software patents can be invalidated, and here’s Red Hat doing it! Jul 15 19:42
schestowitz “But, IF Red Hat was indeed paid to shut up, THEN this is even criminal! It’s like making profits on the expenses of other operating systems (the BSDs, Solaris, whatever) not covered by this settlement!” Jul 15 19:42
schestowitz Which brings back shades of Novell. SCO too had Microsoft and Sun license from them after the suit against Linux (IBM et al). All for legitimacy. Same with Trend Micro, which did this recently with IBM and ironically Barracuda then had to buy patents from IBM!!! Jul 15 19:44
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saul__ schestowitz, I thought you might be interested (if you weren’t already aware): http://en.oreilly.com/osco… Jul 16 23:03
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tessier SCO breached its fiduciary duty to Novell, converted funds, and so it has to pay. That is ironic, in that this case started with SCO accusing Novell of slander of title, and asking for millions in damages. Instead it has to *pay* Novell millions. Jul 17 02:01
tessier Woohoo! Jul 17 02:01
tessier Another nail in the coffin! Jul 17 02:02
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ZiggyFish schestowitz: are you there Jul 17 02:43
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brendan__ hey schestowitz Jul 17 04:56
schestowitz Hi there. Jul 17 04:56
schestowitz [I forgot to set myself to 'away' earlier when I was asleep (oops).] Jul 17 04:57
brendan__ today, by HP I was told to install a virus or I wouldn’t get any tech support Jul 17 04:57
brendan__ (i.e vista) Jul 17 04:58
schestowitz Really!?!? Jul 17 04:58
schestowitz Oh. Jul 17 04:58
brendan__ yeah Jul 17 04:58
schestowitz That’s terrible. They said they would support it for a while. Jul 17 04:59
brendan__ nope Jul 17 04:59
schestowitz Once again it’s H-P to Microsoft’s rescue. Jul 17 04:59
schestowitz Do you have the E-mail or some other record of this? Jul 17 04:59
brendan__ only phone Jul 17 05:00
brendan__ (I did have a few unplesent words the the lady on the other side of the phone though) Jul 17 05:01
schestowitz Is that really their policy? What’s the nature of the support? Jul 17 05:01
brendan__ windows or we not support Jul 17 05:01
brendan__ they said it was because linux didn’t have the right drivers (but the problem still persisted even in vista) Jul 17 05:02
schestowitz Oh, but did they reject supporting XP even if you already have it installed? Jul 17 05:04
brendan__ don’t know (didn’t ask) Jul 17 05:04
brendan__ I was using ubuntu Jul 17 05:04
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schestowitz That would be the interesting part (if they push people away from XP and into Vista). H-P is too close to Microsoft to support Linux. They do Novell Linux, i.e. Microsoft-taxed rubbish. Jul 17 05:05
ziggyfish lol Jul 17 05:05
schestowitz ziggyfish:  sorry I didn’t respond earlier. I was asleep. Jul 17 05:06
ziggyfish sharn powers(from LinuxJornal) had a simular problem a couple of days ago with HP’s mini note book Jul 17 05:06
schestowitz Yes, I saw the video. Jul 17 05:06
ziggyfish schestowitz, I forgive you Jul 17 05:06
ziggyfish ;) Jul 17 05:07
schestowitz I wouldn’t but from H-P. They are part of the Vista collusion fiasco (still in court) and they lobbied for OOXML in France. Jul 17 05:07
ziggyfish yeah, I aslo heard,while I was on hold, that they are having a vista promotion as well Jul 17 05:08
ziggyfish so now I’m stuck with vista untill tuesday Jul 17 05:09
schestowitz The likes of H-P and Dell are competing over who sucks up to Microsoft better. Same with Intel and AMD. Microsoft controls them using its monopoly (and margins). Acer quit this dependency with Linux. Jul 17 05:10
*schestowitz hasn’t used Windows in years, not even for minuted. Jul 17 05:10
*ziggyfish forced to use it in years Jul 17 05:12
schestowitz With Apple becoming more prevalent on ‘the desktop’, policies evolve to allow the use of more than one O/S. Jul 17 05:13
ziggyfish anyway got to go, c ya Jul 17 05:20
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schestowitz Interesting chart right here: http://www.microsoft-watch.com/content… (GNU/Linux > Mac OS X) Jul 17 14:33
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RGoCZ ? Jul 18 03:56
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schestowitz Good news, everybody. Microsoft’s financial results were poor and the stock fell another 6%. Jul 18 05:17
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tessier schestowitz: Poor? How do you figure? Jul 18 07:01
tessier http://www.microsoft-watch.com/content… Jul 18 07:01
tessier This makes them look pretty good Jul 18 07:01
schestowitz I saw Joe’s analysis earlier. He’s biased. Jul 18 07:01
tessier But the numbers are the numbers. How could he be biased? Jul 18 07:02
tessier Are the numbers they reported to the SEC bigger or smaller than before? Jul 18 07:03
schestowitz He only shows what Microsoft wants you to see. It does not tell you, for example, that Microsoft spent tens of billions buying companies for their revenue, which left Microsoft with a lot less in the bank. It also does not tell you what Microsoft fans like Ina Fried admitted to. This was a disappointment. Jul 18 07:03
*dsmith_ (n=dsmith@c-76-114-142-224.hsd1.md.comcast.net) has joined #boycottnovell Jul 18 07:53
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schestowitz Microsoft plans to continue to invest (read: lose money) in online services. ( http://news.cnet.com/8301-10805_3-… ) Jul 18 07:58
schestowitz tessier: Microsoft hit after earnings and forecast miss [...] “Shares of Microsoft Corp. dropped more than 6% in after-hours trading after the software giant posted a fiscal fourth-quarter profit that fell short of Wall Street’s estimates as it forecast lower-than-expected revenue for the following quarter.” Jul 18 07:59
schestowitz http://money.cnn.com/2008/07/17/t… Jul 18 07:59
dsmith_ haha Jul 18 08:03
dsmith_ hello roy Jul 18 08:03
dsmith_ I know MS is building some huge data centers Jul 18 08:04
tessier schestowitz: So earnings are up just not quite as up as the street expected. That’s hadly bad news for MS. Jul 18 08:07
tessier hardly Jul 18 08:08
schestowitz Profits declined in the last quarter, but I don’t know yet about this one. Microsoft’s profits won’t turn totally sour overnight, but it’s the trend that matters. Bear in mind that Microsoft had /already/ lowered its estimates in the last quarter, so it missed them again. See what Wilcox says (in quite a similar vein) about delivering Hyper-V “ahead of schedule” _after a delay_. Jul 18 08:11
schestowitz There are always some reporters who just read Microsoft PR about its quarterly results. The truth comes later after independent interpretation from the non ‘Billy press’ (literally funded by him, so it spreads misinformation). Jul 18 08:11
schestowitz dsmith_: those datacentres don’t pay off (yet, or ever). Microsoft continues to lose market share online Jul 18 08:12
dsmith_ I dobt they will ever pay off Jul 18 08:13
dsmith_ *doubt Jul 18 08:13
schestowitz http://news.cnet.com/8301-102… ” Microsoft dropped from 5.89 percent to 5.46 percent.” Jul 18 08:13
dsmith_ they will collapse in disaaray and be bought up by Google Jul 18 08:13
dsmith_ or some other better managed firm Jul 18 08:14
schestowitz Don’t say that. :-) You don’t want those ‘hot heads’ ruining other companies. On the bright side, Google can demote Ballmer to janitor. Now, that’s hubris at its best. They can appoint Jerry Yang to be his boss. Jul 18 08:15
dsmith_ lmfao Jul 18 08:16
dsmith_ why do linux users get referred to as MS haters? Jul 18 08:16
dsmith_ I mean I have no quarrell against BIlly or in anyway hate MS in general Jul 18 08:16
tessier Yes, MS is definitely losing in the online ventures. Not just not making as much profit as expected but actually losing. Jul 18 08:25
tessier dsmith_: I get tons of spam and viruses. Sent from MS machines. That alone makes me dislike them. Jul 18 08:25
tessier dsmith_: Constant probe attempts from compromised computers, malware, my friends and coworkers upset because they lost their data or their computer got taken over. Jul 18 08:25
dsmith_ I hear ya Jul 18 08:26
tessier My fiancee actually had her webcam hijacked (they could see her bedroom) and she lost access to the yahoo email account she had been using for years and all of her contacts in it. Jul 18 08:26
tessier Suffice it to say, she happily runs Linux now. Jul 18 08:26
tessier Speaking of the fiancee, I have some manly duties to attend to now. ttyl Jul 18 08:26
dsmith_ I get complaints now and then and tell ppl, thats what you get for using MS. But when I offer the linux, oh thats too hard or its free, how can it be better. I even offer them a temp. laptop to take home to try to no avail. PPL are just clueless.. Jul 18 08:27
schestowitz tessier: make sure she doesn’t marry you just for the Lunix skillz. ;-) Jul 18 08:28
schestowitz dsmith_: /s/clueless/lazy/ in my humble opinion. I too needed to learn a new operating system. I even used some OS 9 several years back (only at work). Jul 18 08:29
dsmith_ I switched right when vista came out.. Jul 18 08:29
dsmith_ going on two years now Jul 18 08:29
dsmith_ but I have used RH 7-9 years ago Jul 18 08:30
dsmith_ RH VEr. 7-9 Jul 18 08:30
schestowitz when I first used Linux (aged 18) it was a more primitive KDE 2. Jul 18 08:31
schestowitz I kept a Windows partition around for years. It was only in 2005 that I said goodbye to even a Windows partition. Things got easier at that stage (mixed environments are a mess). Jul 18 08:32
dsmith_ when I was off to college 96′ we used NT, with netscape email/browser.. Jul 18 08:33
dsmith_ i have a xp partition on this laptop Jul 18 08:33
dsmith_ though i do boot into it once a  week perhaps Jul 18 08:33
schestowitz If I needed to Windows today, I’d probably toss it under Qemu or something. It’s amazing how far Linux has come along. Mandriva 2008.1 has been fantastic so far. I can’t imagine running something different on this box. It’s currently more impressive than even OS X. Jul 18 08:54
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schestowitz MSFT is down over 8% so far today. That’s nothing to sneeze at. Jul 18 15:29
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