Mono 'Guard' Found in Ubuntu Forums

Dr. Roy Schestowitz

2008-08-22 00:12:04 UTC
Modified: 2008-08-22 00:12:32 UTC

Moneyville

We have been warned about this several times and covered it a long time ago. We mentioned people's ability to tweak polls and request more Mono. They may do so for personal reasons, for their own benefit (money). We have just found one person, who at one point confessed: "I do C# programming on Linux for a living using Mono, so there are definitely jobs out there - and more companies seem to be moving to Mono every week if you pay attention to the Mono mailing lists."

This person has only participated in 4 threads in Ubuntu Forums, despite joining 8 months ago. All of them, unsurprisingly, are about Mono. He shoots down opposition to it. Here are the posts, enabling readers to judge for themselves:

1st Example

Post 1

2nd Example

3rd Example

4th Example

Next time you ponder Mono inside Ubuntu and then wonder why it's not being removed, in spite of the associated problems, see the examples above again. There are clearly some people out there who fight for Mono.

Over at ZDNet, Jason Perlow has some tough words for Mono and Novell.

Well there’s… Mono? Sure, Novell has access to Microsoft’s developers and documentation for re-implementing .NET on Linux, but Microsoft has hardly made a college try to help Novell actually FINISH Mono or commit programmers to the effort. Hell, if Microsoft took one million dollars of that hundred million, and earmarked a few of its .NET developers as consulting staff to Novell for 3 years, you can bet they would get to parity with the one on Windows, at least so it isn’t always broken with the latest implementation of whatever API. Now, I’m not blaming Microsoft for not being open with Novell — it’s not their implicit responsibility to build Open Source projects — Mono is a Novell sponsored, community effort. But if Microsoft really wants to see .NET running on literally every OS, then Mono is going to need more than just “here’s our docs and call our guys and come on campus whenever you want when you need help, Miguel. Oh and by the way, have some free Diet Cokes and go use our Starbucks in the lounge.”

Surely enough, Microsoft wants it to be broken and crippled, always incompatible with the 'standard ' (de facto). It's yet another reason among many more to steer away from Mono. But will Mono 'guards' be kind enough to let people do the right thing? ⬆

Mono is Novell

Comments

NoSoftwarePatents

2008-08-22 07:30:25

Another reason is that the mono Guards hit bug reports and feature requests hard and fast, removing them from public visibility within minutes. The issues remain in the database, of course, but are not visible in the default searches due to the new classification that they get from the mono Guards.

Ubuntu could save many hundreds of megabytes out of the install CD by dropping mono. Since there are only about 650 MB in a CD, that's a lot of real estate for anything. It's a large chunk of the install CD.

For a large chunk of the install CD to be used for anything, it should be darn good. Mono is by all regards (except MS' own de Icaza) garbage and not up to speed on what it is imitating, especially Java. It's a travesty for a large gob of the install CD to be used up for something as diametrically opposed to Free Software principles as Mono. That space can be used for something technically sound instead that also meets the goals of the combined Ubuntu/Debian/GNU/Linux projects.

Ha! Chairman Bill and his 'Guards.
Dan O'Brian

2008-08-22 12:21:34

How are people removing bugs from public visibility from the Ubuntu bug database unless they are the original submitter or an Ubuntu employee?

Hint: they aren't.
Dan O'Brian

2008-08-23 13:25:55

Just got around to reading the threads, and it turns out that the most recent thread was started by a guy asking for help with MonoDevelop and then along comes your friend, Neighborlee, who starts trolling.

So, who's the troll again?
Roy Schestowitz

2008-08-23 13:33:57

"Neighborlee" is my friend? Oops. I must have lost count or track of my friends then.
Dan O'Brian

2008-08-23 20:24:12

Well, he seems to be based on your hanging out together on irc (see your own irc logs for example)
Roy Schestowitz

2008-08-23 20:28:38

This started /after/ the conversations in Ubuntu Forums, AKAIK.
Dan O'Brian

2008-08-23 21:11:41

Considering he was asking for your help DURING the Ubuntu conversation, you'd be wrong ;-)

You've been chatting with him on irc for weeks or more.
Dan O'Brian

2008-08-23 21:12:35

Btw, I take it from your lack of denying that Neighborlee is a troll, that you agree he is one.
Roy Schestowitz

2008-08-23 21:35:16

You’ve been chatting with him on irc for weeks or more.

He showed up in IRC about 4 days ago.
Dan O'Brian

2008-08-23 22:33:24

He showed up more than 4 days ago. Recheck your logs ;-)

Here's an example of one from a week ago:

http://boycottnovell.com/2008/08/16/irc-log-15082008-2/

And you guys seemed pretty chummy there.

Btw, you're still avoiding the question of whether Neighborlee is in fact a troll.

I'll remind you that the thread Neighborlee started bashing Mono on was a thread started by a guy asking for help with Mono/Develop on Ubuntu. A few posts later, Neighborlee starts attacking Mono without any provocation.
Roy Schestowitz

2008-08-23 22:52:47

Here’s an example of one from a week ago:

http://boycottnovell.com/2008/08/16/irc-log-15082008-2/

Interesting. I didn't remember this. it felt like 4 days or so.

I’ll remind you that the thread Neighborlee started bashing Mono on was a thread started by a guy asking for help with Mono/Develop on Ubuntu. A few posts later, Neighborlee starts attacking Mono without any provocation.

I didn't track these threads. I was shown some isolated posts there. I think it came from Neighborlee after he had done this. He wanted advice, IIRC.
Chris Lees

2008-08-24 09:41:00

Mono doesn't take up "many hundreds of megabytes" on the Ubuntu CD. A quick look through Synaptic for Mono libraries and runtime reveals that, in their compressed form (as they are on the CD), that Mono stuff takes up 16 megabytes.

Tomboy and F-Spot, which seem to be the only Mono-dependent packages shipping with Ubuntu, together take up about 4 megabytes in their compressed form.

Twenty megabytes in total. Google Earth takes up the same amount of space. Remember that Ubuntu would ship some other photo management program instead of F-Spot, as well.
Dan O'Brian

2008-08-24 11:09:31

Damn, Chris, don't you know you're not supposed to let little things like "facts" get in the way of a Mono-smear?
Greg Kasyanov

2008-08-24 18:34:50

This isn't the first time that 'Neighborlee' has been caught trolling:

http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=4478432&postcount=251

@neighborlee

there are different ways to support the anti-mono advocacy,

the productive ways are,

1. to encourage people to use the non-mono equivalent apps. 2. write software to compete with those mono apps.

sadly, there are unproductive ways too.

like resurrecting a very old thread that dates back from 2006, while recycling the past points that has already been raised in this thread.
Chris Lees

2008-08-27 13:00:05

@Dan: I'm trying to get on BoycottNovell's "McCarthy Index"... oops, I mean "Credibility Index". Once there, I'd like to get a lower score than Steve Ballmer, if that's possible. In fact, I'm such a Microsoft-loving Linux-hater that I'm posting this message using Xenix running on my 286!