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09.12.08

IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: September 11th, 2008

Posted in IRC Logs at 4:35 am by Dr. Roy Schestowitz

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Enter the IRC channel now

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schestowitz Novell and Microsoft are kissing again: http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/microsof… Sep 11 06:51
kentma Novell is clearly Microsoft’s route into Linux.  We’ve debated, several times, over the last 5-6 years that Microsoft would have to adopt linux in the end, but that their own culture would prevent them.  Buying Novell in this way probably makes it all possible for them, whilst retaining their wonderful corporate culture. Sep 11 07:07
schestowitz Watch this too: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/con… Sep 11 07:08
schestowitz “Government officials in charge of collecting billions of dollars worth of royalties from oil and gas companies accepted gifts, steered contracts to favored clients and engaged in drug use and illicit sex with employees of the energy firms, federal investigators reported yesterday. “ Sep 11 07:08
kentma yeah, this is pretty much how it works… Sep 11 07:11
schestowitz It’s more serious too because it results in deaths, not just lost of (digital) freedom). Stevens received some BRIBE^H^H^H^HGIFTS and he was involved in the fight to ruin the Web. Sep 11 07:12
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schestowitz Chief Microsoft critic in not-so-top condition: http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2008/09/1… Sep 11 13:45
neighborlee ouch..well I remember the orthodontic part, some of the worst pain I think I ever experienced heh ;) Sep 11 13:56
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schestowitz Here is a dodgy new headline from Paul McDougall , insinuating that Microsoft changed its stance on standards (never mind the self benefit): http://www.informationweek.com/news/software/in… Sep 11 15:09
schestowitz More bribes in congress: http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/20… Sep 11 15:42
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_Doug hi peeps with no girlfriend … Sep 11 16:42
schestowitz Welcome to you too, peep with underscore Sep 11 16:43
Eruaran hello Sep 11 16:46
schestowitz Eruaran: I posted about Acer yesterday. Sep 11 16:48
_Doug hi there it’s a pragma directive, for those of you old enough to know what that is .. :) Sep 11 16:48
Eruaran schestowitz: oh ? I didnt notice Sep 11 16:48
schestowitz http://www.mixx.com/stories/2088062/acer… Sep 11 16:48
schestowitz That’s the radical view on it anyway (I don’t know who this guy is, but he likes the site): http://www.mixx.com/stories/2088062/a… Sep 11 16:49
Eruaran ty Sep 11 16:50
_Doug I just saw a Linux acer in Comet .. Sep 11 16:50
schestowitz I see them many times when I go past Maplin. They have their own Linux gadget-laptop. Sep 11 16:51
schestowitz It won’t be described as “Linux” though, let alone GNU/Linux. It’s an appliance, but that still shows how FOSS hits the mainstream. Sep 11 16:52
_Doug Yea, it’s totally hidden .. even the bootup sequence don’t show anything .. Sep 11 16:53
schestowitz Splash screens, if the boot isn’t instance. Sep 11 16:53
schestowitz *instant Sep 11 16:53
_Doug Boots to a usable screen in seconds, they even have AV on it and a ‘My Documents’ folder .. :) Sep 11 16:53
Eruaran Has anyone seen Asus’ ‘Express Gate’ ? Sep 11 16:56
Eruaran You have to have Windows to install it. Sep 11 16:56
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schestowitz Isn’t is preinstalled in most cases? Sep 11 16:57
Eruaran If you want that ‘instant on’ option, there is only an XP or Vista installer. Nothing else. So, you can’t install this Splashtop, GNU/Linux based environment without Microsoft Windows installed. Sep 11 16:57
schestowitz Eruaran: it’ll come on all ASUS mobos, unless Microsoft continues pressuring ASUS. All laptops will have it as standard. Dell moves in the same direction. Sep 11 16:58
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Eruaran Retail or OEM, there are only XP and Vista installers. Sep 11 16:59
schestowitz I can find you the links BTW, including  Microsoft’s dirty tricks against it. Sep 11 16:59
schestowitz I think both, but I’m not sure. Sep 11 16:59
schestowitz Some mobos will boot into it while other OSes like Windows start up in a ‘sandbox’ Sep 11 17:00
Eruaran Our company has started offering systems with the new Asus mobo’s with Express Gate. Ausus has provided no way of installing it without Windows already installed. Sep 11 17:00
schestowitz Does it not come on the board?? Sep 11 17:02
trmanco http://blogs.technet.com/openchoice/archive/2… Sep 11 17:02
schestowitz Reminds me of something. Let me checkl Sep 11 17:02
Eruaran No. Its on the Asus utilities disk. Sep 11 17:03
_Doug Do I understand right, ‘Express Gate’ only comes with Windows already installed ? Sep 11 17:03
schestowitz http://boycottnovell.com/2008/07/… Sep 11 17:03
_Doug Or maybe it’s hidden, like BeOS and can only be accessed with a floppy .. :) Sep 11 17:03
Eruaran _Doug: You can’t install it without Windows installed first becuase Ausus only provides a Windows installer. Sep 11 17:03
schestowitz The suspicion is that this < http://boycottnovell.com/2008/07/26/asus… > and this <  http://boycottnovell.com/2008/05/15/e… > might be related to it. Sep 11 17:04
_Doug “Ausus only provides a Windows installer” .. purr of evil~1 Sep 11 17:05
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schestowitz It’s definitely something to write about later. Sep 11 17:05
schestowitz This seems to agree with the earlier suspicions about ASUS going into bed and sharing a fridge with Microsoft. Just like HOVSEPI~1 Sep 11 17:06
Eruaran It doesn’t appear to be something that is on the motherboard itself, or it can only be enabled from installed software – but either way, it only has a Windows installer. Sep 11 17:06
schestowitz Have you checked with Phoronix yet? Sep 11 17:07
schestowitz Hold on. I’ll ask there and copy here. Sep 11 17:07
PetoKraus there’s also the thing with ACERs Sep 11 17:08
PetoKraus their laptop’s fans require Acer Crapware ™(r)(c) to work properly Sep 11 17:09
schestowitz What about them…? Sep 11 17:09
PetoKraus after resume from suspend, they refuse to work. Sep 11 17:09
schestowitz That renders it useless. Do they know? Sep 11 17:09
PetoKraus i guess they do Sep 11 17:10
schestowitz http://boycottnovell.com/2008/… Sep 11 17:10
neighborlee Not to be a M$ apologist its obvious I am definitely NOT,,, but I dont think linux is presenting a unfied front quite yet for software installs…maybe its getting there but Im sure on some level it is frustrating for some companies… Sep 11 17:10
schestowitz “From: Bill Gates   Sent: Sunday, January 24, 1999 8:41 AM   To: Jeff Westorinen; Ben Fathi  Cc: Carl Stork (Exchange); Nathan Myhrvold; Eric Rudder  Subject: ACPI extensions” Sep 11 17:10
schestowitz Bill Gates: “One thing I find myself wondering about is whether we shouldn’t try and make the “ACPI” extensions somehow Windows specific. It seems unfortunate if we do this work and get our partners to do the work” Sep 11 17:10
schestowitz “and the results is that Linux works great without having to do the work.” Sep 11 17:11
PetoKraus hehe, it has *just* to support the ACPI properly Sep 11 17:12
PetoKraus *has to Sep 11 17:12
PetoKraus ah darn, this scottish weather Sep 11 17:12
PetoKraus soakin’ wet Sep 11 17:12
Eruaran Perhaps I should complain to the ACCC. Sep 11 17:13
schestowitz Note Nathan Myhrvold there. Sep 11 17:13
schestowitz He’s a patent troll now and Gates invests in him. Sep 11 17:13
Eruaran I’m going to note these distortions here in Australia and put it in writing to the ACCC. Sep 11 17:17
schestowitz Don’t forget the Victoria incident. Sep 11 17:18
schestowitz Contact Brendan Scott for a lawyer’s help. He could use the publicity. Sep 11 17:19
Eruaran The schools ? Yes. Sep 11 17:19
schestowitz I think he’s also personally involved in the policies. Sep 11 17:19
schestowitz http://brendanscott.wordpress.com/2… Sep 11 17:20
Eruaran I will ty Sep 11 17:21
Eruaran I’m basically sick of it Sep 11 17:25
Eruaran I can’t sit back and watch this any more Sep 11 17:25
Eruaran There’s too much blatantly dodgy stuff going on Sep 11 17:26
schestowitz You sound like Stallman. Sep 11 17:26
schestowitz Speaking of dodgy, http://www.fanaticattack.com/2008/… Sep 11 17:27
schestowitz “If you didn’t watch the film that served as an introduction to John McCain’s acceptance speech at the RNC, then you didn’t note the subliminal re-writing of history in that film. McCain’s camp managed to tie Iran to Iraq visually. As Jeffrey Feldman writes, “It was a cynical attempt to claim attacks on Americans–1979 and 2001–were carried out by the same ‘enemy.’” Sep 11 17:27
Eruaran I think getting the ACCC involved in the Victorian Education issue would be a good thing. Sep 11 17:27
schestowitz Haven’t complaints been files /already/? I think I saw something. Sep 11 17:28
Eruaran Hopefully, but I’m going to add my voice. Sep 11 17:28
Eruaran And I’m going to also highlight what I’m experiencing as it relates directly to my job as well. Sep 11 17:29
Eruaran With a bit of help hopefully I can make some sort of submission to the ACCC that will illustrate that this is industry wide, it involves anti-competative distortions in the market and consumers don’t have any choice. Sep 11 17:30
schestowitz There’s tons that Microsoft does in AU Sep 11 17:30
schestowitz I could get you a list of samples. Hold on. Sep 11 17:30
Eruaran thanks Sep 11 17:31
schestowitz Second from last here (plus context): http://groups.google.com/group/comp.o… Sep 11 17:32
schestowitz http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.l… Sep 11 17:34
Eruaran I will probably work on this over the weekend Sep 11 17:35
schestowitz The PM also censors Wikipedia and the Internet, but I can’t find all the right refs. http://groups.google.com/group/comp… Sep 11 17:35
Eruaran I have to get going now (otherwise I know I wont get up in the morning) Sep 11 17:35
schestowitz This one was another eye opener: http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linu… Sep 11 17:36
Eruaran I need to make my complaint as concise as possible. Clear heading with major points clearly outlined. I don’t think the ACCC read longwinded letters. Sep 11 17:37
schestowitz You could add references. Sep 11 17:37
Eruaran Yes indeed. Sep 11 17:37
schestowitz Send a parcel with a latter and a donut. Sep 11 17:37
Eruaran heh Sep 11 17:37
Eruaran bb in about 24 hours Sep 11 17:39
schestowitz Have fun. Sep 11 17:41
_Doug snooze … would you like to cancel the current operation ? | press YES, NO or CANCEL … Sep 11 17:55
schestowitz “No” *and* “cancel” = confusion. Unintuitive MS UI. Sep 11 17:58
schestowitz Also “Apply” Sep 11 17:58
MinceR Yes/No/Cancel/Close/Quit/Discard/OK/Apply/Affirmative Sep 11 17:58
schestowitz GNOME does this the right way: apply immediately. Sep 11 17:58
MinceR at least Yes is first, unlike in retarded gnome and osx. Sep 11 17:59
schestowitz http://weblog.obso1337.org/ Sep 11 18:02
schestowitz It’s called “implicit save”. I didn’t remember the name immediately. Sep 11 18:02
schestowitz Permalink: http://weblog.obso1337.org/2008/implicit-save/ Sep 11 18:02
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_Doug Implicit Save: takes gets used to after spending too much time in Windows Land, don’t have to click ‘are you sure’ boxes are restrart the application .. Sep 11 18:16
schestowitz Been one hour in Phoronix and no activity at all. I asked: “<schestowitz> Hi. I have a query. How come ‘Express Gate’ has only a Windows installer? Can anyone help, please?” Michael Larabel would know, but he’s away. Sep 11 18:17
_Doug How does it work under the hood, sounds like hibernate to me ? Sep 11 18:19
_Doug ot: SanFran hunts for rogue ‘terminal server’ .. :) Sep 11 18:22
_Doug http://it.slashdot.org/it/08/09/11/1355224.shtml Sep 11 18:22
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_Doug Someone donate a copy of NMAP and Wireshark .. Sep 11 18:23
schestowitz trmanco: what is this < http://blogs.technet.com/openchoice/archive… > about? Sep 11 18:23
_Doug ot: “they were greeted with what appears to be a router login prompt and a warning message saying “This system is the personal property of Terry S. Childs,”” Sep 11 18:24
_Doug dunnno, it’s in Spanish .. Sep 11 18:25
trmanco some Microsoft employee that referred to one of my posts about ODF being approved in Sweden Sep 11 18:25
schestowitz Better link than a DDOS attack. ;-) Sep 11 18:27
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schestowitz Microsoft is very scared of ODF (see how far they went with OOXML corruption) because it makes irrelevant one of the only products from Microsoft that are very profitable. Sep 11 18:28
trmanco same’ol Microsoft Sep 11 18:29
trmanco Microsoft is desperate, and then they do things that make no sense… Sep 11 18:32
schestowitz ODF is not Microsoft-hostile (like Microsoft prefers to portray it). It’s pro-fair competition. Competition forces Microsoft to stop overcharging for commodities. Sep 11 18:32
MinceR well, fair competition is hostile to microsoft Sep 11 18:35
MinceR since microsoft can’t compete on fair terms Sep 11 18:36
MinceR they can’t produce anything of value Sep 11 18:36
trmanco http://beranger.org/index.php?page=diary… -> this is funny Sep 11 18:36
schestowitz #40 was funny Sep 11 18:36
schestowitz See Alex responding Sep 11 18:37
schestowitz Linux sites linked to him for  laugh Sep 11 18:37
MinceR what’s with the “no, this is about xp” lines? Sep 11 18:42
schestowitz You need t o see the original. It was some kind of Vista advert. Sep 11 18:45
*MinceR checks Sep 11 18:45
trmanco schestowitz, Ubuntu 8.10: Compuz-Fusion Cube Deformation »» typo error :P Sep 11 18:47
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schestowitz Is that in USENET? Sep 11 18:51
trmanco yes Sep 11 18:56
trmanco you copied the original title from the article, I saw that after a posted my last message Sep 11 18:56
schestowitz Yes, I copy typos too. Sep 11 18:58
schestowitz This one is troubling me: http://opendocument.xml.org/blog/would-… Sep 11 19:00
trmanco hmmm Sep 11 19:31
trmanco I say no Sep 11 19:31
trmanco innovate with microsoft’s technologies — No Sep 11 19:32
schestowitz I’ll post about it in 5 second. Sep 11 19:35
schestowitz *Seconds  http://boycottnovell.com/200… Sep 11 19:35
trmanco good Sep 11 19:41
schestowitz http://www.computerworlduk.com/management… Sep 11 19:54
schestowitz “London Stock Exchange in denial over system outage [...] The LSE absolved its core TradElect platform from blame. The system, designed and built by Accenture, runs on HP ProLiant Servers and Microsoft .Net and SQL Server 2000 systems. Accenture declined to comment on Monday’s events. The LSE said, “we won’t discuss dealings with our individual suppliers”.” Sep 11 19:55
schestowitz Castro just got Ubuntu: http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&… Sep 11 20:13
schestowitz I thought he had already died. :-S Sep 11 20:14
schestowitz Ladislav gets Ubuntu flak: http://idle.slashdot.org/article… Sep 11 20:16
PetoKraus hehe\ Sep 11 20:21
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schestowitz Funny quote I’ve come across twice now: “Linux running in a VM on top of a MS host platform … because everyone wants to put their Corvette on top of a skateboard.” See http://news.cnet.com/8301-… “Novell plans to offer support for Suse running on Windows. Is there meaning here or is Novell just becoming more of a Microsoft puppet?” Sep 11 20:53
trmanco nice quote Sep 11 20:54
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*ChanServ has kicked benJIman from #boycottnovell (Banned: Goodbye Troll) Sep 11 21:03
trmanco what Sep 11 21:04
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MinceR how much more of a microsoft puppet can novell become anyway? Sep 11 21:05
schestowitz I can’t figure out how to remove that. Sep 11 21:05
*schestowitz removes ban on *!*@benjiweber.co.uk Sep 11 21:06
trmanco they can finally let microsoft but the hole novell Sep 11 21:06
MinceR /cs help akick Sep 11 21:06
MinceR oops Sep 11 21:06
MinceR schestowitz: /chanserv akick #boycottnovell del benjiman Sep 11 21:06
MinceR or something like that Sep 11 21:06
-ChanServ-benJIman` is not on the AKICK list for #boycottnovell. Sep 11 21:06
MinceR (i don’t know what the entry is exactly as i can’t do /chanserv akick #boycottnovell list) Sep 11 21:07
-ChanServ-*!*@benjiweber.co.uk has been removed from the AKICK list for #boycottnovell. Sep 11 21:07
schestowitz Okay. Sep 11 21:07
schestowitz XChat only gives a banlist windows, not a kicklist menu Sep 11 21:07
schestowitz It’s only days ago that I found the UI bit of it. Sep 11 21:07
*Tallken is at #opensuse-gnome :D Sep 11 21:08
Tallken I wonder if I’ll get kicked by someone who “whois”es me Sep 11 21:09
Tallken :P Sep 11 21:09
benjamin :o you must be an openSUSE spy ganging up on these good people. Sep 11 21:09
Tallken of course I am Sep 11 21:09
MinceR schestowitz: i doubt you’ll find a gui for chanserv Sep 11 21:09
Tallken :D Sep 11 21:09
MinceR at least not yet Sep 11 21:09
Tallken schestowitz: forget the UI, /chanserv help ; /nickserv help ; /memoserv help ; are your friends Sep 11 21:09
schestowitz I was hoping for non-bot friends. :-) Sep 11 21:10
Tallken it’s not  abot Sep 11 21:12
Tallken it’s a service :D Sep 11 21:12
schestowitz Well, either way, it’s good yo have you help me out here. Sep 11 21:13
schestowitz *to have Sep 11 21:13
Tallken hum Sep 11 21:15
*Tallken wonders Sep 11 21:16
*Tallken is about to do a marketing stunt Sep 11 21:16
Tallken damn Sep 11 21:16
Tallken I was going to invite one of ENOS 2008 to here :P Sep 11 21:17
Tallken #boycottnovell You need to be a channel operator to do that Sep 11 21:17
trmanco lol Sep 11 21:17
schestowitz ENOS? Sep 11 21:18
Tallken that OpenSuse thingie in Portugal Sep 11 21:18
schestowitz Oh yeah… Sep 11 21:18
schestowitz I knew I wrote about it cause it sounded familiar. Sep 11 21:19
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schestowitz mentioned in http://boycottnovell.com/2008/08/16/xa… and http://boycottnovell.com/2008/08… Sep 11 21:19
Tallken I know you wrote about it, that’s why I didn’t explained what was it :D Sep 11 21:19
schestowitz Hi, zak__ Sep 11 21:19
zak__ schestowitz: hi Sep 11 21:20
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Tallken http://lwn.net/Articles/297918/ Sep 11 21:52
Tallken < Microsoft and Novell deliver Joint Virtualization Solution > Sep 11 21:52
schestowitz The comment say it all. Sep 11 21:52
schestowitz Microsoft plays only with Microsoft Linux. Sep 11 21:52
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Tallken Joint? :P Sep 11 21:52
schestowitz Hurray. Sep 11 21:52
schestowitz Yes, joint… an in, pass the joint to buddy Microsoft, Novell. Sep 11 21:53
Tallken :D Sep 11 21:53
schestowitz Pipes uv’ peace. Sep 11 21:53
MinceR that is, peace until microsoft no longer considers novell useful. Sep 11 21:58
schestowitz It’s like the two enemies sipping some port and rejoicing peace. The following day the stronger army attacks the intoxicated fool. Sep 11 22:01
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Tallken http://www.fsf.org/blogs/community/hexen-and-heretic < Heretic and Hexen liberated! > Sep 11 22:14
schestowitz I used to play them. The memories will stay with the GPL Sep 11 22:18
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Tallken well gotta go Sep 11 22:24
Tallken cya later Sep 11 22:24
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trmanco http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/n… Sep 11 22:39
trmanco oops Sep 11 22:39
trmanco wrong channel sorry Sep 11 22:40
schestowitz Wrong channel? Not sure. Sep 11 22:41
trmanco yes it was Sep 11 22:43
trmanco I got it from one of your posts on usenet and it wasn’t on this channel that I was thinking on posting the link Sep 11 22:43
PetoKraus :) Sep 11 22:47
schestowitz It’s an important one nonetheless because it’s about Microsoft disregard for standards. There’s lot of this in the Novell deal (interop versus real standards) Sep 11 22:47
*trmanco has quit (“I just hit the close button :)”) Sep 11 23:17
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