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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: October 9th, 2008 – Part 2

Posted in IRC Logs at 2:30 am by Dr. Roy Schestowitz


Enter the IRC channel now

schestowitz Well going digital made a thirst for surveillance that’s affordable. Is it of much use? RoI? Very doubtful. No answers, no proof. Oct 09 03:00
jose__ valuable marketing info Oct 09 03:00
schestowitz Some people at Microsoft are morbid in their minds — wanting to now log using cameras and stuff people’s every movement, thought, moods, etc. Oct 09 03:00
twitter It’s purpose is to identify, track and neutralize political and economic competition Oct 09 03:01
schestowitz Almlost as though they do reaearch on Bush contracts. Oct 09 03:01
jose__ ms on every electronic device would put the government spying out of business Oct 09 03:01
schestowitz Phone serve as credit cards now. Oct 09 03:02
twitter At least one cable TV box has a camera capable of IDing those who watch. Oct 09 03:02
schestowitz OpenMoko should take the loads her.e Oct 09 03:02
schestowitz *lead here Oct 09 03:02
jose__ this is why i don’t want microvell Oct 09 03:02
schestowitz Microsoft patent that.. “TV watches user” Oct 09 03:03
twitter free software should be demanded for all electronic devices or they will all be spys.  RMS does not even use a cell phone because of abuse of the system Oct 09 03:03
schestowitz it’s easier to eavesdrop on mobiles. Oct 09 03:03
schestowitz So I’ve heard. Oct 09 03:03
schestowitz Private calls are better done on landline. Oct 09 03:03
jose__ guys you are breathing too hard.. are you ok.. should i call the authorities to get a better diagnosis… Oct 09 03:04
jose__ what was that movie with Oct 09 03:04
jose__ jim carey about growing up under the watchful eye of the whole town? Oct 09 03:04
twitter All of them can be tapped.  Cell phones have have the ability to record and transcribe before transmitting. Oct 09 03:04
jose__ living in a fish bowl Oct 09 03:05
jose__ well, gates won’t be inside it.. that’s the fringe benefit of cooperating Oct 09 03:05
twitter Cell phones can and have been used to record more than phone conversations Oct 09 03:05
twitter Gates has got to be one of the most watched people on Earth Oct 09 03:05
jose__ don’t scientists love prodding animals in cages and such (the scientists inside each of us) Oct 09 03:05
jose__ well, government figures would be in the drivers seat more.. Oct 09 03:06
jose__ but i’m sure private sector titans get freebies Oct 09 03:06
schestowitz I’m told by a professor in biology that human nature is to /control/ others. Oct 09 03:06
jose__ a break from the watchful eyes for good behavior or something Oct 09 03:07
schestowitz A man’s primary satisfaction is to make other do things for him/her Oct 09 03:07
jose__ it’s interesting Oct 09 03:07
schestowitz It’s something innate, apparently. Also among animals. Oct 09 03:07
jose__ and you get an empowerment rush Oct 09 03:07
schestowitz That’s just why there’s litttle hope for ending corruption. People always want more power. Oct 09 03:07
jose__ money gives you that power …allegedly Oct 09 03:07
twitter Ick.  Finger the sky Oct 09 03:07
jose__ oodles of money I mean Oct 09 03:07
twitter http://www.inteldaily.com/?c=126&a=8374 Oct 09 03:07
schestowitz Even if that means breach of law (see Gates deposition best hits) Oct 09 03:08
twitter the biology professor’s culture lead him to think that, sad Oct 09 03:08
jose__ i really need to force myself to go to sleep Oct 09 03:09
twitter sleep Oct 09 03:09
jose__ no one here is helping Oct 09 03:09
jose__ except you twitter Oct 09 03:09
jose__ thanx Oct 09 03:09
jose__ i shall obey Oct 09 03:09
jose__ why didn’t you say so sooner Oct 09 03:09
twitter sleep Oct 09 03:09
jose__ zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzxcv hstfhb Oct 09 03:09
schestowitz gn guys. Thanks for the talk. I’m out Oct 09 03:09
jose__ out here too Oct 09 03:09
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twitter I have a lot to do tomorrow and need to sleep too.  Later. Oct 09 03:11
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schestowitz I sent a request for a Mono licence to Microsoft. The E-mail bounced. :-p Oct 09 08:45
schestowitz /Some/ industry… companies forced to pay their abusive monopolistic, bribing competitors: http://www.linuxworld.com.au/inde… Oct 09 08:46
MinceR r4wr Oct 09 08:47
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schestowitz IBM  seems optimistic < http://news.cnet.com/8301-1001_3-10062066-92.html >, confirming Jose’s claim that “fat” commerce survives while small ones die. Oct 09 09:02
schestowitz Facebooks sells out to manipulated, poor search: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/10/08… Oct 09 09:06
schestowitz http://www.itwire.com/content/view/21067/1063/ “ASUS confirmed it has experienced strong sales of both the Windows XP and Linux Eee PC versions.” Oct 09 09:13
schestowitz Turns out the LinuxToday issue was a CMS issue: http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=20… Oct 09 09:18
schestowitz http://www.linuxinsider.com/rsstory/64742.html Oct 09 09:23
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schestowitz Microsoft shill, funded by no small business, is lying to the public: http://blog.actonline.org/2008/10/yeah… (these people should be investigated by the FTC for AstroTurfing). Oct 09 10:02
schestowitz EFF site is down. Oct 09 10:12
schestowitz People should really use Netcraft, not Alexa (Alexa=win+ie+spyware+manipulative webmasters). Some guy thinks that Slashdot’s decline (it’s a Microsoft zoo) is bad news for Linux. The other thing is, more Linux sites are created, growing at the expense of ‘big ones’. Oct 09 10:21
schestowitz Mr. OpenSUSE steps down from the board: http://lizards.opensuse.org/2008/10/0… Oct 09 10:31
schestowitz debian.org was temporarily doqn Oct 09 10:43
schestowitz “amazing that corruption is excepted by the entire developed world. stunning that it has met with resistance only with some developing nations and maybe the european union. what should have been an overwhelming anger by all nations . the notion that developed nation are immune to corruption is bogus. microsoft did it in full view, without any hesitation. microsoft should be nailed for this.” Oct 09 10:49
schestowitz http://www.computerworlduk.com/community… Oct 09 10:49
schestowitz Glyn Moody said on Wednesday, 08 October 2008 : “Indeed: it will be interesting to see if developing nations can now take the initiative in terms of reframing the standards debate.” Oct 09 10:49
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trmanco lol Oct 09 14:07
trmanco I’m laughing with this -> “Poetry, copyright violation, and OOXML” Oct 09 14:11
schestowitz Where? Alex? Oct 09 14:24
schestowitz OOXML: the poetry of corruption and intellectual property traps. Oct 09 14:25
trmanco yes Oct 09 14:26
schestowitz Well, he made the point and the files are down. Oct 09 14:30
schestowitz I never bothered to even read them. They just circulated, so I threw copies on the server, not even bothering to try and open a 6,000-page beast. Oct 09 14:31
schestowitz I didn’t even realise that it was copyrighted (a standard?? Copyright?). Anyway. I realised this when the HTML version was produced (it showed up in each page). Oct 09 14:32
kentma1 standards usually are copyrighted, but that doesn’t mean that they cannot be circulated of necessity.  the ITU used to sell my ones, but they give them away now… Oct 09 14:37
schestowitz http://www.linuxpromagazine.com/online/news/oo… Oct 09 14:40
schestowitz The article does not mention that the files were removed after Brown’s reaction and it also isn’t aware of the fact that I didn’t open a 5,000+ page file to see the copyrights remarks. I was under the impression that it was private because it was not final and as it was already being passed around I decided to upload it. Oct 09 14:42
schestowitz What caused a lot of trouble is one of the readers deciding to put it on Slashdot. Oct 09 14:43
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trmanco http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=5930536 Oct 09 15:07
_Doug Microsoft suffering from Google-envy .. Oct 09 15:08
_Doug http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/10/08/da… Oct 09 15:08
schestowitz trmanco: I was just looking at that ACPI complaint an hour ago. Oct 09 15:09
schestowitz Put a quote at the bottom of: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/1… Oct 09 15:10
-_Doug-DCC Chat ( Oct 09 15:19
*Received a DCC CHAT offer from _Doug Oct 09 15:19
_Doug ASUS releases high-end S101 netbook .. Oct 09 15:23
_Doug http://www.electronista.com/articles… Oct 09 15:23
_Doug Top US lawyer hired to prepare Google-Yahoo anti-cartel case .. Oct 09 15:25
_Doug http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2008/s… Oct 09 15:25
_Doug But sees no problem with Microsoft-Yahoo ? Oct 09 15:26
_Doug “Novell invites you to THE DATA CENTER DISCOVERY TOUR 2008″ Oct 09 15:29
_Doug “Reduce TCO by 50-70% by migrating SAP workloads from UNIX to SAP-optimised SUSE Linux Enterprise” Oct 09 15:29
_Doug ? Oct 09 15:29
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schestowitz Microsoft is still pulling strings vs Google: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/1… Oct 09 15:29
_Doug “Simplify your data center with the flexibility to seamlessly move virtual machines between Microsoft Windows and SUSE Linux Enterprise” Oct 09 15:29
schestowitz Funny thing is, you can show Microsoft hiring AstroTurfers here and even breaking laws, but call Microsoft a “criminal” and some AstroTurfers will shoe up mocking you. Oct 09 15:30
schestowitz They prepare the site _Doug Oct 09 15:30
schestowitz First they need to get around to changing all the pages. Oct 09 15:30
schestowitz In case Microsoft buys Novell for slash funds (market cap: $1.6B), then novell.com > novell.microsoft.com   Quicker transition Oct 09 15:31
_Doug Program Compatibility Assist Oct 09 15:34
_Doug This program has known compatibility issues Oct 09 15:34
_Doug Check online to see if solutions are available from the Microsoft website .. Oct 09 15:34
_Doug Program: Adobe Acrobat 5 Oct 09 15:34
_Doug Good GRIEF~1 .. can’t even view an old PDF .. without a nag screen :) Oct 09 15:34
_Doug Definition of Evangelism at Microsoft Oct 09 15:36
_Doug “Evangelism is the art and science of gettig developers to ship products that support Microsoft’s platform.” Oct 09 15:36
_Doug We are here to help MICROSOFT Oct 09 15:37
_Doug Enemies: other platform vendors .. Oct 09 15:37
_Doug I should have stuck at selling refrigeration solutions .. :) Oct 09 15:39
schestowitz Do they slog one another? Oct 09 15:40
schestowitz Do they hire proxy lawyer to attack … errr… fridges? Oct 09 15:40
_Doug No, but we don’t keep awake trying to think up ways of BOGUing each other :) Oct 09 15:41
_Doug “STRATEGY: Or, How to Kick Ass Witthout Breaking a Sweat” Oct 09 15:42
schestowitz Is that in this document?  http://boycottnovell.com/wp-conte… Oct 09 15:44
schestowitz Which page? Oct 09 15:44
_Doug ‘STRATEGY: “To win one hundred battles is not perfection; to subdue the enemy without fighting is perfection.” Sun-Tzu: The Art of War, written in China by Sun Wu in roughly 490 B.B.’ Oct 09 15:44
schestowitz That I remember… Oct 09 15:44
_Doug Anyone watch ‘HEROS’ on television recently ? Oct 09 15:44
schestowitz “>Diversionary tactics, holding action, and retreats may each seem contrary to the achievement of the overall objective when considered solely in their own terms, but taken in light of the overall conflict, may contribute to overall success. In the Chinese Civil War that followed World War II, Mao Tse Tung’s Army ran away from every battle, until they won the war. They knew that overall victory, not local victory, was the objective” Oct 09 15:44
_Doug Like, the paranoia the obsessiveness, the malevelance  .. it’s all there … Oct 09 15:45
_Doug Yea: Mao was playing a giantic game of GO .. Oct 09 15:46
schestowitz Microsoft: inspired by war. Oct 09 15:46
_Doug gigantic game of GO, the one where you absorbe terrority .. Oct 09 15:46
schestowitz Can we name people in govt. who are Microsoft puppet? Oct 09 15:47
schestowitz Or those paid by Microsoft? This corruption must end. It’s killing the economy at the moment , but it really ought to kill the criminals who caused this, not the taxpayers. Oct 09 15:47
_Doug Not GO, a different game, you take turns placing pieces and surround terrority and deny it to the enemy .. Oct 09 15:48
schestowitz The suffering is still being passed to those who were abused so criminal /companies/ need to at least be embargoed in more placs. Oct 09 15:48
schestowitz Risk? Oct 09 15:48
_Doug MS is only doing what they did in the rail/oil/electricity/television/transport industry since for ever … Oct 09 15:49
schestowitz It has a patent, y’know: http://games.slashdot.org/article.p… Oct 09 15:49
schestowitz “Hasbro owns the copyrights for the game of Risk, as the guy who wrote the google maps based Risk found out. This was featured on slashdot earlier. However, he does not seem too discouraged and asks people to submit ideas for other games using google maps that will not have such legal wrangles.” Oct 09 15:49
_Doug Remember when the car industry bought up the electric trolly cars, and then closed them down … Oct 09 15:49
schestowitz _Doug: it’s no excuse. So it’s time to respond. Microsoft is now crumbling because of its own stupidity (e.g. Vista) and because of a lot of free labour (FOSS), which is tries to fight by corruption politicians now. Oct 09 15:51
schestowitz Give me 5 minutes and I’ll post about what they do in India now. Oct 09 15:51
_Doug If memory serves Risk sounds like a variation of a much older Chinese game .. Oct 09 15:51
_Doug I recall in relation to Mao, it was suggested as an insight into his sucessfull strategy Oct 09 15:52
_Doug Denying the enemy terrority and room to manouver Oct 09 15:53
ld50_ _Doug, i used to watch “heroes” Oct 09 15:55
_Doug Risk: it’s a variation of Go, in’it :) Oct 09 15:55
_Doug Heros: a cross between the Matrix, the X-MEN, the Terminator and the FLY .. yea ? Oct 09 15:56
ld50_ only the first season was cool :P Oct 09 15:56
_Doug how many episodes ? .. too many .. the Americans never know when to end it … Oct 09 15:58
_Doug What’s your Lethal Dose :) Oct 09 15:59
_Doug mines a pint .. Oct 09 15:59
ld50_ of what, tv series? Oct 09 15:59
ld50_ lol Oct 09 16:00
_Doug LD50 == Lethal Dose 50%# Oct 09 16:00
_Doug not a lot of people know that :O Oct 09 16:00
ld50_ yes, but its applied to something, like ld50 of caffein Oct 09 16:00
_Doug 50% of the dose that will kill you .. is used to determine the safe dosage of drugs .. Oct 09 16:01
_Doug http://www.rsc.org/ScienceAndTechnology/Policy/EH… Oct 09 16:02
ld50_ not exactly, i think its the dose that will kill 50% of a population Oct 09 16:02
_Doug Heros: what’s with the two Chinese dudes and time travel ? Oct 09 16:02
_Doug ld50: negative, they up the dose to an expermental population until half are dead .. that’s the LD50 test … Oct 09 16:03
_Doug a population yes, only they don’t ask the rabbits first :( Oct 09 16:04
_Doug Heros: I only saw two episodes, I feel as if I saw them all .. Oct 09 16:04
ld50_ yes, thats what i said, 50% is “50% of the population”, not “50% of the dose” :P Oct 09 16:05
ld50_ ah, dont waste your time with heroes Oct 09 16:05
ld50_ watch “Twin Peaks” or something :D Oct 09 16:05
_Doug cryptic comments by some government agent, in a bunker, then a slo-mo kunk-fu fight with super-power-type zapping, then |||| cut to somewhereelse and repeat ….. Oct 09 16:06
_Doug no scent lasting more then two minutes, the attention span of the average tv viewer .. Oct 09 16:07
_Doug try and make it look like a cross between a music video and a RPP game .. Oct 09 16:07
_Doug Real Person something .. you know like HL or CounterStrike .. Oct 09 16:08
_Doug Whizzzz .. Wooshhhhhh .. Wammmmmmmm … and cut | Oct 09 16:08
_Doug I watched her ‘twin peaks’, it was believable until the log-lady, and the talking-backwards sinister midget turned up … Oct 09 16:09
_Doug The thing is, no-one under the age of 18 is watching television … Oct 09 16:10
ld50_ http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f130/la… Oct 09 16:10
ld50_ great woman Oct 09 16:11
_Doug heros: what’s with the two Chinese dudes and the time travel ???? Oct 09 16:11
ld50_ one of the guy time travels Oct 09 16:11
ld50_ thats it Oct 09 16:11
_Doug how and why, and why don’t he stop the destruction or what ever ? Oct 09 16:12
ld50_ his friend doesnt have any powers Oct 09 16:12
_Doug They even have a ‘Jessica Alba’ lookalike .. Oct 09 16:14
_Doug http://www.2flashgames.com/2fgkjn134kjlh1cfn8… Oct 09 16:15
_Doug “multi-episode story arcs that build upon a larger, more encompassing arc.” Oct 09 16:15
_Doug shouldn’t that be logs :) Oct 09 16:16
_Doug She pouts, but not as well as Jessica .. :) Oct 09 16:17
_Doug http://www.imdb.com/media/rm860263424/tt0813715 Oct 09 16:17
_Doug What is it about chicks in catsuits that do kungfu ? Oct 09 16:17
_Doug ;) Oct 09 16:17
_Doug Daphne ??? what’s a superhero doing with a name like Daphne ???? Oct 09 16:18
ld50_ are you watching it on tv or downloaded the eps? Oct 09 16:20
_Doug I saw it on tv .. Oct 09 16:20
_Doug “Daphne has the ability to move at superhuman speed,” Oct 09 16:20
_Doug question: what happens to the objects Daphne carries, why isn’t there an athmospheric disturbance when she moves ? Oct 09 16:21
ld50_ i wonder if she uses an helmet to protect her hairdo Oct 09 16:22
_Doug like, she’s displacing a lot of air, you’d think ther would be a thunder clap ? Oct 09 16:22
_Doug helmet: haaaaa Oct 09 16:22
_Doug Hiro has Hiro, ? Oct 09 16:23
ld50_ han? Oct 09 16:23
_Doug I thought the original X-Men movie was crap, the ideas worked in a Comic, but for some reason they were a little underwelming onscreen ? Oct 09 16:23
_Doug Hiro does ‘time-stops’ Oct 09 16:24
_Doug What’s “THE FORMULA” ? Oct 09 16:26
_Doug Is there the touch of the MANGAs about this series as well ? Oct 09 16:27
_Doug later … Oct 09 16:32
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_Doug ? Oct 09 16:46
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_Doug gtg: keep an eye on Schestowitz .. while I’m away …. Oct 09 16:47
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trmanco two new kernel versions were released today Oct 09 17:22
trmanco http://lwn.net/Articles/302393/ Oct 09 17:22
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schestowitz Cool, thanks, trmanco. Oct 09 19:23
schestowitz Oh, maintenance releases. Oct 09 19:24
trmanco yes Oct 09 19:24
trmanco little thing worth mentioning :P Oct 09 19:24
trmanco things* Oct 09 19:24
schestowitz Dow Jones at 88xx points. :-S Oct 09 19:28
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cj schestowitz: thoughts about gnome? Oct 09 20:04
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schestowitz cj: I like GNOME. Oct 09 20:18
cj schestowitz: do you know who wrote GNOME? Oct 09 20:19
schestowitz Yes. I like KDE better and I hope Miguel changes his mind about things he said. Oct 09 20:19
cj hmm?  what did he say that you wish he changes his mind on?  url? Oct 09 20:23
schestowitz Ick. http://beranger.org/index.php?page=dia… Oct 09 20:25
schestowitz cj: let me find it. Oct 09 20:25
cj thanks Oct 09 20:25
schestowitz Gnome to be based on .NET – de Icaza : http://www.theregister.co.uk/2002/02/0… Oct 09 20:25
schestowitz That’s a recipe for disaster. Oct 09 20:25
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MinceR gnome should stop copying osx if it is to be made into a usable DE again. Oct 09 20:39
MinceR (going back to copying kde would be a way to do that) Oct 09 20:39
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schestowitz KDE changes a lot. Either way, GNOME is very important to us all. It’s popular on mobile devices and many desktops. We need to protect it from becoming something Microsoft can claim ownership of, especially now that MSFT is going down, despite massive buybacks and impending debt (seen the stack markets today?). Oct 09 20:44
MinceR i’m afraid they already have. Oct 09 20:46
MinceR m$ controls novell, novell owns gnome Oct 09 20:46
MinceR the worst part being that these bastards control gtk now. Oct 09 20:46
schestowitz ‘Control’ or control? Oct 09 20:58
MinceR well, afaik gtk is part of the gnome project now Oct 09 20:59
schestowitz Novell has more power over Mono than over GNOME. This includes copyrights. That’s one of the reasons Novell wants to poison GNOME with more Mono. It sponsors Mono j*nk like Banshee. Oct 09 20:59
MinceR wasn’t gnome a ximian thing before ximian was bought by novell? Oct 09 20:59
schestowitz I’d have to check to give a definite answer. The copyrights might not be Ximian’s. Oct 09 21:00
MinceR i thought the reason to poison gnome with mono was that m$ told them to since it would turn gnome into a patent trap. Oct 09 21:00
MinceR ic Oct 09 21:00
schestowitz Novell is Novell is Novell and Microsoft is Novell is Microsoft. Oct 09 21:00
schestowitz They have no choice. Novell w as dying. This means that whatever Novell does now can be assumed to be Microsoft’s desire too. Oct 09 21:01
schestowitz Companies like Canonical need to sponsor Mono-free programs to compete with evolving (using $$) stuff like Banshee before users shout for Mono Oct 09 21:01
MinceR isn’t dying better than becoming a zombie/mindless slave? Oct 09 21:02
schestowitz If you can’t make them “addicted” to Windows, make them “Addicted” to .NET (both users and devs). That’s the thinking anyway. Oct 09 21:02
schestowitz I was sent a warning earlier about the Silverlight Clouds of MS. Oct 09 21:02
schestowitz <anon> “Learn about the Mesh Application architecture and lifecycle as well as how to build Silverlight 2 and JavaScript Mesh Applications from ground up.” Oct 09 21:03
schestowitz <anon> http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=1626 Oct 09 21:03
schestowitz <anon> Silverlight everywhere Oct 09 21:03
schestowitz <schestowitz> ms is obsolete anyway Oct 09 21:03
schestowitz <anon> is it the same AlexH: Oct 09 21:03
schestowitz <anon> http://ipkitten.blogspot.com/2008/10/symbian-ap… Oct 09 21:03
schestowitz <anon> well, not really, they will just try to “capture” the cloud movement and make it dependent on M$ technologies Oct 09 21:03
schestowitz <schestowitz> Yes Oct 09 21:03
schestowitz <anon> Silverlight is just about that Oct 09 21:03
schestowitz <anon> if you really want to annoy Miguel, get a patent licence also for Moonlight Oct 09 21:03
schestowitz <anon> and all the codecs that goes with it Oct 09 21:03
schestowitz <schestowitz> Wil do Oct 09 21:03
schestowitz <schestowitz> did EC drop the MOOX probe? Oct 09 21:03
schestowitz <anon> there is no probe Oct 09 21:03
schestowitz <anon> if they really want to probe, they have to travel to Lebanon and Ivory Coast :-) Oct 09 21:03
schestowitz <anon> let’s prepare some fireworks for the day the standard is out Oct 09 21:03
schestowitz <anon> I don’t have time and energy to launch some complains in front of courts Oct 09 21:03
schestowitz <anon> and IBM seems to be interested only in chasing Microsoft at the Commission Oct 09 21:03
schestowitz <anon> which is not very exiting Oct 09 21:03
MinceR btw, i wasn’t aware that novell was dying before they were zombified Oct 09 21:04
MinceR why did it happen? Oct 09 21:04
MinceR i can see why netware would be dying Oct 09 21:05
MinceR i guess suse wasn’t good enough :> Oct 09 21:05
schestowitz Let me gett the backing before Novell enthusiasts attack me Oct 09 21:06
schestowitz In no particular order: Oct 09 21:07
schestowitz http://boycottnovell.com/2008/09/0… Oct 09 21:07
schestowitz http://boycottnovell.com/2008/08/30/… Oct 09 21:07
schestowitz I spotted this last year when a reader sent me some information about their approach towards the bank: http://boycottnovell.com/2007/11/2… Oct 09 21:08
trmanco http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/RoyalPi… Oct 09 21:09
schestowitz Opera is still losing its chance and being naive < http://community.zdnet.co.uk/blog/0,1000000567,1… >. It’s a free( gratis) Web browser and they would gain against Firefox if they open-source it. Right now it’s a no-go even for some repositories. Oct 09 21:10
schestowitz trmanco: that shot is from last month. Oct 09 21:11
trmanco meh Oct 09 21:11
trmanco something must be wrong with my feed reader Oct 09 21:11
trmanco http://www.linuxjournal.com/content/venezuela-gets-it Oct 09 21:11
trmanco this is fresh Oct 09 21:11
schestowitz That’s a poor article for a good site like Pingdom. Oct 09 21:11
trmanco why can’t Portugal be like Venezuela Oct 09 21:11
trmanco “Although the notebooks are similar in both countries, the OS will be different as the Portuguese use a modified version of Microsoft Windows, while the government of Venezuela has opted for a version of Linux. “ Oct 09 21:12
schestowitz Don’t they deliver to them? Oct 09 21:12
schestowitz The company under fraud investigation? Oct 09 21:12
trmanco yes Oct 09 21:12
schestowitz New: http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/152072/… Oct 09 21:12
trmanco but venezuela adopted Linux for those netbooks Oct 09 21:12
schestowitz At least it says “Linux”, not “SUSE” Oct 09 21:12
schestowitz trmanco: let’s wait and see. OLPC used to just run Linux too. Microsoft also bribed some official in Nigeria to change a signed deal with Mandriva. Oct 09 21:13
trmanco lol Oct 09 21:13
trmanco yes Oct 09 21:13
trmanco lets wait and see Oct 09 21:13
schestowitz http://blog.mandriva.com/2007/10/31… Oct 09 21:13
trmanco yes Oct 09 21:13
trmanco read that a year ago Oct 09 21:13
schestowitz Almost 600 comments. Oct 09 21:14
schestowitz “The dirty bast*rds. they were probably paid to install windows, thats how these things usually go” Oct 09 21:14
schestowitz “Bast*rds! Always do the same with their fucking money…no use for ethics, ah ?” Oct 09 21:14
schestowitz “I am a Nigerian Linux advocate who is as disappointed as the next person that our school children will not have Linux on the Classmate PCS. However, I am disgusted with all the mudslinging and slanderous innuendo. If Francois or anybody has any proof of any wrongdoing then they should please notify the EFCC (www.efccnigeria.org) who will be happy to look into the matter.” Oct 09 21:15
schestowitz “Golpe baixo Steve!” Anyway… enough for now. :-) Oct 09 21:15
trmanco http://www.linux-watch.com/n… Oct 09 21:15
schestowitz So they use Debian. ;-) Oct 09 21:16
trmanco yes it was a really disappointing thing, even I felt angry against M$ and a little sorry for the nigerian kids Oct 09 21:16
schestowitz Does this Debian version come with Mono? :-O Mono? NoNo. Oct 09 21:17
schestowitz Here’s a problem: GNU/Linux becomes more popular, so all the binary salespeople come over and entice people with non-Free s/w: http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer… Oct 09 21:18
trmanco http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/10/09… Oct 09 21:18
trmanco yes Oct 09 21:19
schestowitz Blue-GNU is back to posting ( :- ) ): http://blue-gnu.biz/ Oct 09 21:19
trmanco but for people who really wan’t to be free they can keep on using free software Oct 09 21:20
trmanco those non-free apps can probably attract more users, “normal users” if you know what a mean Oct 09 21:20
MinceR i wonder who will m$ sell out to when it’s their turn to die Oct 09 21:21
MinceR crApple? :> Oct 09 21:21
schestowitz It’s disheartening that they think of “Linux”, Linus (1991) and some binary O/S (ISO) that has Wine. Oct 09 21:21
trmanco here are some openoffice.org stats from Portugal Oct 09 21:25
trmanco http://blog.softwarelivre.sapo.pt/2008/… Oct 09 21:25
trmanco English version: http://translate.google.com/translate… Oct 09 21:26
*trmanco has quit (“I just hit the close button :)”) Oct 09 21:31
cj what?  OLPC comes with a kernel other than Linux? Oct 09 21:34
cj that’s pretty disgusting Oct 09 21:35
schestowitz It’s nothing to do with Linux It’s education, freedom and independence from vendors. Oct 09 21:38
cj schestowitz: well… wasn’t there a vendor selling the hardware and the software that came on it? Oct 09 21:45
cj which vendors are you suggesting freedom from? Oct 09 21:45
cj I still think it’s pretty aweful that a last-minute change happened to the kernel installed on the system.  the folks who wrote that kernel were deeply involved in the manufacture of the product from the beginning. Oct 09 21:47
cj jumping on the bandwagon at the last moment without contributing to the development of the product seems like a crappy thing to do. Oct 09 21:47
cj but that’s capitalism, though, right? Oct 09 21:48
schestowitz The BIOS is open and easily replaceable. The software is open (GPL) and swappable. Oct 09 21:48
cj if it’s coreboot, that’s GPL, too, IIRC Oct 09 21:49
schestowitz Hardware too is a flexible thing. Suppliers can be changed and it’s made in China. Oct 09 21:49
cj if what the coreboot devs tell me is correct, there is no open embedded motherboard. Oct 09 21:49
cj the OLPC setup may be an exception to this Oct 09 21:50
cj it sounds to me like they didn’t use commodity hardware, instead they had to design their own Oct 09 21:50
cj but I’m just telling you what I remember; don’t consider it fact Oct 09 21:50
schestowitz RMS chose OLPC for such reasons. Anyway, any country can customise the software to its own needs and own it. Oct 09 21:50
schestowitz “The US government’s debts have ballooned so badly the National Debt Clock in New York has run out of digits to record the spiralling figure.” http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7660409.stm Oct 09 21:55
cj thanks, Mr. Bush.  Good idea there with the deregulation thing. Oct 09 21:56
schestowitz Alex Brown’s site is down now. He moved to ASP .NET, so.. Oct 09 21:56
cj schestowitz: thank you for your response to Jeff.  it may not mean a lot to you coming from me, but I think he’s good people.  I’ve been working with him for quite a while now, and he’s always proved himself knowledgable and ready to help fix and improve the software he maintains. Oct 09 21:57
schestowitz Heh. Steve Furber in the BBC < http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7660928.stm >. I know him… humble man. Oct 09 21:58
schestowitz Same with Miguel. But he takes advice from people who want to ruin Linux or ‘share’ its success, i.e. embed Microsoft+tax with the Free Desktop. It’ll never change. He was put in a bad neighbourhood. Oct 09 21:59
cj I don’t always agree with Miguel, but I think he’s doing what he’s doing for a good reason. Oct 09 22:00
schestowitz He means well, but he’s deceived. Until that changes, he can’t be trusted and many people already distrust him — and rightly so. Oct 09 22:02
*dsmith_ (n=dsmith@c-76-114-142-224.hsd1.md.comcast.net) has joined #boycottnovell Oct 09 22:05
cj I don’t think he’s deceived.  He’s corrected my behavior when I did not realize that I was going to take MS property and integrate it into Mono.  He knows where the line is drawn and he won’t have it crossed. Oct 09 22:05
schestowitz “BT will outsource 500 staff from its Design and Operate units to Alcatel-Lucent in a seven-year global deal.” http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/1… Oct 09 22:07
schestowitz “It’s hilarious to see the push on “Linux” named sites to push Mono lately. But if you are like me and want to avoid Mono, the list will help you. If you use Mandriva, avoidance includes noticing the automatic updates offered and unchecking the ones that relate to Mono, if you have update set to offer everything there is, not just updates to what you have installed.]” http://www.groklaw.net/newsitems.php Oct 09 22:11
schestowitz Microsoft funds abuse-tolerant govt. (Republicans): http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/-comme… Oct 09 22:21
schestowitz “While Democrats kept mum about the Microsoft case, Republicans were quick to blame Microsoft’s woes on their political rivals. When he visited Microsoft’s home state during the Republican primaries, George W. Bush pointedly declared that he supported ‘innovation, not litigation.?’ Oct 09 22:22
*mib_c4fo3s (i=8258be83@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-d364068a39627563) has joined #boycottnovell Oct 09 22:29
*mib_c4fo3s has quit (Client Quit) Oct 09 22:30
MinceR gn Oct 09 22:33
schestowitz Good comment: http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story…. Oct 09 22:33
*twitter (i=willhill@ has joined #boycottnovell Oct 09 22:42
*johnny___ (n=x@dns.suspicious.org) has joined #boycottnovell Oct 09 22:49
johnny___ holla Oct 09 22:49
*johnny___ is now known as johnny- Oct 09 22:50
*johnny- is now known as johnny157 Oct 09 22:50
schestowitz Hey there. Oct 09 22:50
johnny157 someone must lynch deicaza Oct 09 22:50
schestowitz No. Oct 09 22:50
johnny157 i cant take it anymore Oct 09 22:50
johnny157 no seriously Oct 09 22:50
schestowitz Explain the problem to people. Oct 09 22:50
schestowitz z> “It’s hilarious to see the push on “Linux” named sites to push Mono lately. But if you are like me and want to avoid Mono, the list will help you. If you use Mandriva, avoidance includes noticing the automatic updates offered and unchecking the ones that relate to Mono, if you have update set to offer everything there is, not just updates to what you have installed.]” http://www.groklaw.net/newsitems.php Oct 09 22:50
johnny157 dude i dont need to void mono Oct 09 22:51
johnny157 deicaza has been on my shitlist for more than 10 years Oct 09 22:51
johnny157 from the moment he destroyed gnustep Oct 09 22:51
schestowitz Linux sites should learn to stop treating Mono like it’s part of the desktop. It’s as much Linux as Wine is… only LESS necessary Oct 09 22:51
johnny157 tried to hijack windowmaker Oct 09 22:51
johnny157 and the rest of the crap he pulled way before he came up with mono Oct 09 22:51
schestowitz He came in as a Windows man. Oct 09 22:52
johnny157 he failed interview at microsoft Oct 09 22:52
schestowitz You can see it in a 2003/4 interview with him. Oct 09 22:52
johnny157 and he decided to fuck up linux instead Oct 09 22:52
schestowitz GCC was a cheap compiler to him, but he also caught the idealogy. Oct 09 22:52
schestowitz No, he decided to use Linux to grow closer to Microsoft. Oct 09 22:53
schestowitz IMHO. Oct 09 22:53
schestowitz From day one he spoke of the plan to make it COM-compatible and all… Oct 09 22:53
schestowitz GNU Windows. Oct 09 22:53
johnny157 he saw dollars and free labor in the form of stupid kids Oct 09 22:53
schestowitz Gwindows Oct 09 22:53
johnny157 i cant believe he has any credibility left Oct 09 22:54
johnny157 after all these years Oct 09 22:54
johnny157 after bonobo Oct 09 22:54
johnny157 and the crap he spits out at his conventions Oct 09 22:54
johnny157 he is like a rabid dog Oct 09 22:54
schestowitz Oh, that. Oct 09 22:54
schestowitz Well, OOXML being an example Oct 09 22:54
schestowitz I can’t forget how he defends Mirosoft from the EU Oct 09 22:54
schestowitz Like ACT, the Bush Admin and other Microsoft shills. Oct 09 22:54
johnny157 well he got paid pretty good Oct 09 22:55
schestowitz He must have at least been brainwashed a bit, speaking of his professional tendencies. Oct 09 22:55
johnny157 i seem to remember microsoft throwing him out of their conferences Oct 09 22:55
schestowitz VP… probably good 6 digits +big bonuses. Oct 09 22:55
johnny157 they wouldnt acknowledge him in the beginning Oct 09 22:55
johnny157 but once the deal came down with novell Oct 09 22:55
johnny157 they’re buddies Oct 09 22:55
schestowitz He hands out at Microsoft. Oct 09 22:56
schestowitz This duality you also find in Justin Steinman. Oct 09 22:56
schestowitz He has just been promoted. Oct 09 22:56
schestowitz The problem is that many Linux people  ditched Novell. Oct 09 22:56
schestowitz The Windows people are promoted or hired, which changes Novell. Oct 09 22:56
johnny157 i dont give a fuck about novell Oct 09 22:57
johnny157 i jusÃt cant stand it watching these muppets undermine linux Oct 09 22:57
johnny157 little by little Oct 09 22:57
schestowitz They are in the Linux Foundation Oct 09 22:58
johnny157 you should see whats going on in the forums Oct 09 22:58
schestowitz To get Novell ‘off’ Linux is too much work. Oct 09 22:58
johnny157 everytime someone posts something negative about novell./mono Oct 09 22:58
johnny157 the shill army arrives Oct 09 22:58
johnny157 and they downvote/mod everything to hell Oct 09 22:58
johnny157 twofaced rats Oct 09 22:58
schestowitz One option is to try to change Novell’s bahaviour, but as the stock (NOVL) falls, they remain licking the Microsoft Boot for cash. Oct 09 22:58
schestowitz I have no hopes for them. Oct 09 22:58
schestowitz …or for them to change, which is why, as some people said in Linux Today, we need to just see Novell going away like Linspite. Oct 09 22:59
johnny157 well they ll sink sooner or later Oct 09 22:59
schestowitz johnny157:  yes, the shill army. Oct 09 22:59
johnny157 mono aint going anywhere Oct 09 22:59
schestowitz See Glyn Moody’s latest Oct 09 22:59
johnny157 java has so much momentum Oct 09 22:59
schestowitz Or Alan Lord’s recent post on Mono. Oct 09 22:59
schestowitz The Mono shills (some Novell employees too) are everywhere. Oct 09 22:59
schestowitz Is Novell Patrolling Open Source Blogs?  — http://boycottnovell.com/2007/09/30/… Oct 09 23:00
schestowitz I should add: Novell has ‘gagged’ journalists and bloggers before its latest big Microsoft announcement. it polices coverage that way. I bet it’s also responsible for that flood of Mono 2.0 coverage. Novell is the Microsoft of Novell. Oct 09 23:02
johnny157 they must be desperate for developrs and new blood Oct 09 23:02
johnny157 yeh Oct 09 23:02
johnny157 they pimp mono news everywhere Oct 09 23:02
johnny157 flood reddit Oct 09 23:02
schestowitz I at least caught how they manipulated coverage. Oct 09 23:02
johnny157 with crappy shit Oct 09 23:02
schestowitz It’s more sickening to me than what they do. Oct 09 23:02
schestowitz Revisionist likewise. Oct 09 23:03
schestowitz *sm Oct 09 23:03
johnny157 what i dont understand is why ppl fall for their propaganda Oct 09 23:03
johnny157 their arguments for mono are laughable Oct 09 23:03
johnny157 0 weight to all of them Oct 09 23:04
johnny157 mono has 0 added value compared to everything else out there Oct 09 23:04
schestowitz http://boycottnovell.com/2008/04/04/zo…   http://boycottnovell.com/2008/06/06/op… Oct 09 23:04
schestowitz I’ve seen myself ‘punished’ in Digg for criticising Novell or Mono. That’s how it goes. Social networking is gamed by corps Oct 09 23:04
schestowitz The dangr is that on the route to promoting Mono they bash GPL and friendly stuff like Java. Oct 09 23:05
schestowitz Sun really wants to see more Java on GNU/Linux… same with OOo, which Novell/Microsoft ‘hijacked’ with Go-oo Oct 09 23:06
johnny157 you should read this thread here Oct 09 23:06
johnny157 http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comme… Oct 09 23:06
johnny157 but i agree Oct 09 23:06
johnny157 its obvious they adopt microsoft techniques Oct 09 23:06
johnny157 to silence and intimidate Oct 09 23:06
schestowitz It’s rebutted here: http://www.computerworlduk.com/commun… (Then the Monovell army arrived) Oct 09 23:07
schestowitz Another ‘open-source’ scam from Microsoft: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy… (“The SDK only works on Windows (what did you expect?”). Oct 09 23:13
*twitter has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) Oct 09 23:18
*DCC CHAT connect attempt to _Doug failed (err=No route to host). Oct 09 23:42
schestowitz Micron to cut workforce by 15 percent, slash flash output : http://news.cnet.com/8301-13924_3-1… Oct 09 23:43
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