12.09.08

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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: December 8th, 2008 – Part 1

Posted in IRC Logs at 6:35 am by Dr. Roy Schestowitz

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Enter the IRC channel now

PetoKraus umm Dec 08 00:02
PetoKraus so i submitted iwf.org.uk to iwf.org.uk for offending content Dec 08 00:02
PetoKraus that huge red button is CLEARLY ripoff goatse! Dec 08 00:03
schestowitz British Government Violates Copyright < http://slated.org/british_governme… > Dec 08 00:04
schestowitz Yes, I know you can’t read it… Dec 08 00:04
PetoKraus was that the one with the wordpress theme? Dec 08 00:04
schestowitz Yes. There’s also this: US presidential candidate is a pirate < http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer… > Dec 08 00:04
schestowitz End of the Blog < http://williampatry.blogspot.com/2008/… > Dec 08 00:05
schestowitz BT and Phorm is not all… BT to cut off file-sharing customers < http://www.linuxworld.com.au/index.php?id=14341… > Dec 08 00:05
schestowitz /WHAT/ files? Dec 08 00:05
schestowitz That’s what Web servers do… they share files Dec 08 00:06
MinceR gn Dec 08 00:07
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PetoKraus it’s like the priceless question i was asked once by VM tech support: Dec 08 00:08
PetoKraus “do you use software to download data from the internet?” Dec 08 00:08
PetoKraus no, i fucking type down ones and zeroes! Dec 08 00:08
PetoKraus Great day today Dec 08 00:11
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PetoKraus duh, wrong button Dec 08 00:13
schestowitz Downloading the Internet Dec 08 00:13
schestowitz teh internets Dec 08 00:13
PetoKraus yeah, the tubes Dec 08 00:14
schestowitz interwebs. Dec 08 00:31
PetoKraus right, i’ve added ping monitor to my gkrellm now Dec 08 00:33
GoblinRFD Im off to bed…up early in the morning…take care all… Dec 08 00:58
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twitter I’ve decided that copyright should be abolished. Dec 08 01:29
schestowitz For everything? Dec 08 01:30
twitter everything Dec 08 01:30
twitter I’ve used copyleft software for the better part of a decade. Dec 08 01:30
twitter Wikipedia and other free information sources now take care of everything I need. Dec 08 01:30
twitter I don’t see a real use for copyright anymore. Dec 08 01:31
twitter People want to share and they will. Dec 08 01:31
twitter Copyright only makes barriers to that sharing. Dec 08 01:32
twitter If it were not for those barriers, P2P would create the world’s best public library at next to no cost to society. Dec 08 01:33
twitter Every piece of information and entertainment would be available for everyone. Dec 08 01:33
twitter This is too great a prize to sacrifice for the very few people who will be discouraged from creating works. Dec 08 01:35
twitter The only thing that gives me pause is news, but even there people will find a way to produce things, like The Guardian does. Dec 08 01:36
schestowitz What about books that people want to stay unique? Dec 08 01:38
schestowitz Copyright will probably topple itself anyway. Dec 08 01:39
twitter I don’t understand what you mean by a book that stays unique. Dec 08 01:39
schestowitz People prefer PDFs/ODFs they can download quickly. Some people still love the smell of books and few will go through a debit card page. Dec 08 01:39
schestowitz COpyright is seen as needed by the unwashed messes, so to speak Dec 08 01:40
schestowitz People are taught not to share Dec 08 01:40
twitter brainwash Dec 08 01:40
schestowitz They are told that they will make money this way Dec 08 01:40
twitter people share all the time. Dec 08 01:40
schestowitz No, I didn’t mean brainwash in this case Dec 08 01:40
schestowitz But there’s no scarcity anymore Dec 08 01:41
twitter people need to be shown that prize Dec 08 01:41
schestowitz No share, no business. Dec 08 01:41
twitter who’s business? Dec 08 01:41
schestowitz Proprietary software companies learn this the hard way now. Dec 08 01:41
twitter they are the worst offenders Dec 08 01:41
schestowitz People would rather download Drupal in 5 minutes than buy a licence from some blob and be locked in to one vendor Dec 08 01:41
twitter everyone would rather have everything Dec 08 01:42
twitter Napster proved it. Dec 08 01:42
twitter and the music industry flourished while Napster was alive Dec 08 01:43
twitter Other things, like scientific journals, should be easier to come by than Prince songs. Dec 08 01:43
schestowitz They are funded by tax Dec 08 01:46
schestowitz This is an absurdity Dec 08 01:46
schestowitz Those who fund the research have no access to the outcome Dec 08 01:46
schestowitz The Land of “Nothing for free” < http://samba.org/samba/news/artic… > Dec 08 01:48
schestowitz Push for open access to research < http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/techno… > Dec 08 01:48
twitter A few things will have to be forbidden still, but they are not so much a matter of copyright as matter of privacy. Dec 08 01:48
twitter For instance, it would be wrong for people to claim you endorse something you don’t.  Your works should not be used for the advertising if you don’t want because it’s fraud. Dec 08 01:49
twitter Your image, is much the same, but that’s more privacy. Dec 08 01:49
twitter bbl, babies and the wife are crying. Dec 08 01:50
twitter ooooohhhhhh, no peace. Dec 08 01:54
schestowitz What’s wrong? Dec 08 01:55
twitter just screaming babies. Dec 08 01:55
schestowitz It sounds like you have more important duties there. Dec 08 01:55
twitter things were taken care of  as best as they could be :) Dec 08 01:56
schestowitz Why is the wife crying? Dec 08 02:02
twitter The wife was not really crying, just frustrated. Dec 08 02:03
schestowitz Oh, *that* kind of crying. Dec 08 02:03
twitter all is calm now. Dec 08 02:03
schestowitz For “Crying  out loud” Dec 08 02:03
twitter We’ll do the other kind if I don’t find good work in the next month or two. Dec 08 02:04
twitter from “low point” ” “These guys say they’re going to cure  cancer, what are you going to do for us ?” is the request that anti-software  patent lobbyists have to learn to counter” Dec 08 02:04
twitter They are not curing cancer, they are inhibiting knowledge which puts harms treatment today and puts cures off further. Dec 08 02:05
schestowitz Yes, for self gain. Dec 08 02:06
twitter He’s talking about patents, which I still have some grudging, theoretical respect for. Dec 08 02:06
twitter Not business method or software patents though, those make me see red. Dec 08 02:06
twitter Others have seen red over more legitimate patents and shown they are harming medicine and healthcare. Dec 08 02:07
schestowitz Research funds can come from tax Dec 08 02:09
schestowitz Then, knowledge can be pushed into a pool. Dec 08 02:09
schestowitz When professors make inventions while on tax money, the patents are assigned to the academic institute, AFAIK. Dec 08 02:09
schestowitz Maybe it’s partial ownership Dec 08 02:09
schestowitz Industrial knowledge should work in the same way Dec 08 02:09
twitter It depends on the institution. Dec 08 02:09
schestowitz BillG and Co are snapping university patents to troll with right now (extortion) Dec 08 02:10
schestowitz In India for example. Dec 08 02:10
twitter Rogallo had his nifty wing ideas when working at NASA, he assigned them public domain because he wanted to but NASA considered the ideas his. Dec 08 02:11
twitter IV is going everywhere, bribing a few big U to screw the rest.  Very evil. Dec 08 02:11
schestowitz They should be arrested Dec 08 02:12
twitter Stallman is right to worry about patents being used to defeat freely available knowledge. Dec 08 02:12
schestowitz Not in land of the fee though. Dec 08 02:12
schestowitz It loves corrupt people that loot other nations. Dec 08 02:13
twitter Yeah but BillG’s loot of China is not going very well.  People in Washington might realize they’ve been taken for a ride. Dec 08 02:15
schestowitz Mr. Bean makes a move: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/07/embra… Dec 08 02:20
schestowitz I was just about to write about Microsoft’s latest WA corruption. Dec 08 02:20
schestowitz DC that is, not state Dec 08 02:21
schestowitz But I’m getting tired. Dec 08 02:21
schestowitz 2:30AM Dec 08 02:21
twitter night night Dec 08 02:42
schestowitz Cya tomorrow. I’m doing one last post Dec 08 02:42
twitter cool Dec 08 02:42
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kentma mornin’ Dec 08 08:20
MinceR j0 Dec 08 08:45
schestowitz Hey Dec 08 09:16
kapipi morning Dec 08 09:24
schestowitz What’s new today? Dec 08 09:27
kentma dunno… I was reflecting on the German Gov electing ODF… that’s a massive step. Dec 08 09:44
schestowitz They join many more. Dec 08 09:45
schestowitz OOXML was called “death format walking”. They have nothing but marketing going. Dec 08 09:45
kentma yes, but German Gov is 4th or 5th largest economy in the world, UK is just behind…  this is a *huge* decision… Dec 08 09:48
kentma oh – and the announcement of ARM and Ubuntu collaborating for a desktop computer is the first sign of the “death of the IBM PC”… killed by the mobility world. Dec 08 09:49
kentma It’ll be a huge blow for AMD and Intel. Dec 08 09:49
kentma Very interesting news is that eBay have finally realised that skype is worthless, so they’re going to float it (ie., stop funding it). Dec 08 09:50
kentma calls from skype to PSTN are very expensive anyway – it’s cheaper to use your land line. Dec 08 09:50
schestowitz How much will ARM devices cost? Dec 08 09:52
schestowitz Weirdly, I think Maplin already has them. Dec 08 09:52
kentma They’re not all that expensive now – otherwise they wouldn’t be in all those phones… Dec 08 09:53
kentma and satnavs Dec 08 09:53
kentma and pdas Dec 08 09:53
kentma the netbook is the clear next step. Dec 08 09:53
schestowitz re: Skype, you must be biased Dec 08 09:53
schestowitz The Telcos would love to see Skype going away Dec 08 09:53
kentma eh?  no, it’s just the costs.  skype off-net is extremely expensive. Dec 08 09:53
kentma Just look at the numbers. Dec 08 09:53
schestowitz But people will always find some voice P2P service… it’s inevitable. Dec 08 09:53
kentma Of course, but there’s no money in it… Dec 08 09:54
schestowitz People are connected a lot of the time. Dec 08 09:54
schestowitz So landlines can become irrelevant. Dec 08 09:55
kentma how will people connect without a landline?  they can connect wirelessly, of course, but how do you know where they are? Dec 08 09:55
kentma Mobile networks use the imsei number to track people. Dec 08 09:55
schestowitz Yes, I know. Dec 08 09:57
schestowitz That’s one of the reasons I don’t use them. Dec 08 09:57
schestowitz The main ones being other considerations. Dec 08 09:57
kentma okay, but the infrastructure cost of being able to track people is very high indeed, and if you don’t do it, people cannot be contacted. Dec 08 09:58
schestowitz For authorities, there’s lots to like about cellphones. Dec 08 09:58
kentma imagine a position where everyone can only make outbound calls – the whole thing breaks down at that point. Dec 08 09:58
schestowitz Human kind survived for hundreds of thousands of years without being contacted remotely. Dec 08 09:58
kentma yeah, legal intercept laws are so thorough, though, that tracking mobiles is just one tiny bit.  all your paper mail can be opened, all your phone calls listened to. Dec 08 09:58
schestowitz Paper mail? Dec 08 09:59
kentma yes Dec 08 09:59
kentma all your paper mail. Dec 08 09:59
schestowitz I’m joking. Well, people can search garbage too Dec 08 09:59
schestowitz They do Dec 08 09:59
schestowitz Who uses paper mail? Dec 08 09:59
schestowitz All I get there is junk. Dec 08 09:59
kentma bills, bank account details, etc. Dec 08 09:59
schestowitz I’d say “open my mail.. and keep it” :-D Dec 08 10:00
kentma my point is that HMG can track every aspect of your life if they choose to. Dec 08 10:00
kentma hehe :-) Dec 08 10:00
schestowitz I stopped bank statements like 6 years ago. Dec 08 10:00
schestowitz Which was hard because they were used to people requiring it. Dec 08 10:00
kentma anyway, back to the story, eBay have realised that skype is worthless, so they’re floating it off.  They got stung for a few £billion, though. Dec 08 10:00
schestowitz Waste of paper and extra labour for Mr Postman. Dec 08 10:00
schestowitz You could argue that by not giving redundant work you actually harm postmen  (and women) Dec 08 10:01
kentma I’m about 50% electronic at the moment, but preferring to get more so. Dec 08 10:01
schestowitz kentma: I heard about people who were in the MI5 Dec 08 10:01
kentma ah, no, post has never been in better shape – all that online purchasing :-) Dec 08 10:01
schestowitz But you can limit what they get Dec 08 10:01
schestowitz I was under surveillance in 2006 Dec 08 10:01
schestowitz By the network admin. Dec 08 10:01
kentma ah, yes, you said. Dec 08 10:02
schestowitz They only told me afterwards. Dec 08 10:02
kentma has that all stopped now? Dec 08 10:02
schestowitz I don’t know. Dec 08 10:02
kentma did you ever find the real driver? Dec 08 10:02
schestowitz Post!=Fedex Dec 08 10:02
kentma parcel force == royal mail, though. Dec 08 10:03
schestowitz kentma: reason was the Munchkins Dec 08 10:03
kentma Ah, nasty people, aren’t they?  Still, the new arrangement seems to work. Dec 08 10:03
schestowitz That too will suffer Dec 08 10:03
schestowitz With the Depression and all…… Dec 08 10:03
schestowitz Yes Dec 08 10:03
schestowitz No signs of harassment of this kind since. Dec 08 10:04
kentma Sorry – what will suffer? Dec 08 10:04
schestowitz The post Dec 08 10:05
schestowitz Eveyrthing will Dec 08 10:05
schestowitz I could think of only one exception: public transportation. Dec 08 10:05
kentma ah, I think we’ll see that post will increase, as people buy more things online, because it’s less expensive. Dec 08 10:05
kentma skype story here from earlier in the year:  http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/04… Dec 08 10:06
schestowitz A friend’s parents work at the rail station, so they see rise in business, so to speak. They are understaffed. Dec 08 10:06
schestowitz You’re assuming that people will still buy Dec 08 10:06
schestowitz This was also an odd purchase… eBay and VoIP Dec 08 10:07
kentma skype was a brilliant con… there never was any money in it. Dec 08 10:07
schestowitz http://schestowitz.com/Weblog/archive… Dec 08 10:07
kentma My school is doing well out of the recession, as people take their kids out of public schools. Dec 08 10:07
schestowitz To private? Dec 08 10:08
kentma no, my school is a state school. Dec 08 10:09
kentma http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/10/15/as-ebays-c… Dec 08 10:09
kentma public school == fee paying school (anyone can go) Dec 08 10:09
kentma state school == british/EU citizens only Dec 08 10:09
kentma grammar school == british/EU citizens who’ve passed the 11+ Dec 08 10:10
kentma catholic school == british/EU who pass the religiousness test Dec 08 10:10
kentma etc. Dec 08 10:10
schestowitz It impacts college too. Dec 08 10:11
schestowitz I can’t imagine student loans going on the cheap Dec 08 10:11
kentma I’m sure the universities are getting worried. Dec 08 10:11
schestowitz .It can’t be good for research funds. Dec 08 10:11
kentma They might have to focus on getting british/eu students rather than oseas ones. Dec 08 10:11
schestowitz I have some prof friends who are furious Dec 08 10:11
kentma I’m not surprised… things are tough.  HMG should look at pushing more money into universities – better to have people studying than unemployed. Dec 08 10:12
schestowitz Good point Dec 08 10:13
schestowitz I thought the opposite though. Dec 08 10:13
schestowitz Research is luxury. Dec 08 10:13
schestowitz I can’t imagine many funds being available. Dec 08 10:14
kentma Agreed, but consider that social security/unemployment benefits are also luxury… Dec 08 10:14
kentma If you’re going to pay people to do nothing, better to pay them to study, I think. Dec 08 10:15
schestowitz Yes, I see your point Dec 08 10:16
schestowitz Based on history, other options are making war Dec 08 10:16
kentma war is a really expensive play, though, and the public in general don’t have the apetite they used to for it. Dec 08 10:16
schestowitz Well, it’s a bad time to be a student like my brother. Dec 08 10:18
kentma oh – where is he and what’s his principle? Dec 08 10:19
schestowitz The “war” thing is a worst case scenario Dec 08 10:19
schestowitz WW2 came about like 5+ years after the depression began, I think. Dec 08 10:19
schestowitz His principal is computer science. Dec 08 10:19
kentma yeah, but wwII was also about the final collapse of the old european power structures, including the British Empire, plus the Japanese empire and the US empire.  The rise of the “common man”, the collapse of aristocracies, a move to social justice, state healthcare and education, in fact, loads of massive change. Dec 08 10:22
kentma I think that was one of the best positive outcomes of wwii, although one cannot neglect the intense misery for millions upon millions of people, of course. Dec 08 10:24
schestowitz I hear it’s rough in the US though. Dec 08 10:25
kentma Yes, it’s very bad, I hear, too. Dec 08 10:25
schestowitz People I know (friends and family) lose a huge proportion of what they have). Dec 08 10:25
kentma If they had money in shares or in banks, then there are problems, and that’s about 95% of people… Dec 08 10:26
schestowitz Yes, even housewives had shared Dec 08 10:26
schestowitz Everyone saw the casino making good returns Dec 08 10:27
kentma yeah… a saying from my Yorkshire youth “poor people should invest in gold and land”. Dec 08 10:27
schestowitz Bonds too…. lots of things tied to one-trick ponies like Citigroup Dec 08 10:27
kentma yes… risky stufff… Dec 08 10:50
schestowitz Everyone pays for it (Citigroup) now. Dec 08 10:52
schestowitz Bailout.. Dec 08 10:52
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kentma It’s very annoying that a few people have lined their pockets with £millions, are now lounging around in hotels in the caribean, whilst the rest of us bail out the banking system so that they can return in 3 or 4 years and to it again. Dec 08 11:04
kentma Further, we should never have permitted de-mutualisation of bld socs, and never have allowed banks to offer mortgages, and never allowed retail banks to get into commercial banking, and so on. Dec 08 11:05
schestowitz Is this not a swing or power shift? Won’t the east rise soon? Dec 08 11:07
trmanco http://icculus.org/prey/ Prey Linux Retail Client Released “An so it starts. Games are now being ported to Linux and MS loses it’s strangle hold on the gaming market” Dec 08 11:20
schestowitz Where is the quote from? Dec 08 11:21
trmanco digg Dec 08 11:21
trmanco http://digg.com/linux_unix/Prey_Lin… Dec 08 11:22
schestowitz I thought it would be odd for Icculus to say that. Dec 08 11:24
trmanco Where will Linux be in ten years time?: http://it.toolbox.com/blogs/locutus/wh… Dec 08 11:25
schestowitz Proposal for More Waste to Energy Plants in the UK  < http://technocrat.net/d/2008/12/7/55287 > Dec 08 11:26
schestowitz 10 years is too much for predications Dec 08 11:26
schestowitz And there will be greater issues than Free software. Dec 08 11:26
schestowitz Freedom of information for example. What good is a free tool if it can’t pass information freely? Dec 08 11:27
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trmanco dang Dec 08 11:43
trmanco why can’t SQL statements be all the same in all the RDBMS’s Dec 08 11:44
trmanco :| Dec 08 11:44
schestowitz You can use abstraction layers. Dec 08 11:53
trmanco I’m still a newbie :| Dec 08 11:57
trmanco and I don’t know what abstraction layers are :| Dec 08 11:58
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schestowitz ..Can’t believe some people /still/ defend lobbying, aka legalised bribery: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/08/ms-lob… Dec 08 12:43
schestowitz Omissions of disclosures are only the tip of the iceberg. How quickly people forget that Novell to is paid handsomely by Microsoft, so it’s only expected to advance Microsoft’s agenda. Dec 08 12:46
schestowitz ” Many Americans were misled into signing mortgages which they now cannot pay. This isn’t the first time. The wave of farm foreclosures under Reagan, which wiped out the US institution of the family farm, victimized farmers who had followed government and institutional advice to take out loans.” < http://www.stallman.org/archives/2008-sep-d… > Dec 08 12:55
schestowitz CPJ’s 2008 prison census: Online and in jail < http://www.cpj.org/imprisoned/cpjs-2008-… > Dec 08 12:57
schestowitz Petition for free Net in Aussie: http://www.getup.org.au/campaign/… Dec 08 12:59
schestowitz “Sad to say, this means that Bush’s cronies have more or less won their war to privatize and loot Iraq, oil and all. They are likely to control the economy as long as the government in Baghdad is a puppet that “needs” the Bush forces to stay in power.” < http://www.stallman.org/archives/2008-sep-de… > Are Key Obama Advisors in Tune with Neocon Hawks Who Want to Attack Iran? Dec 08 13:01
schestowitz < http://www.alternet.org/story/109572/ > Dec 08 13:01
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PetoKraus i’ve got reply from Be sales team Dec 08 13:18
PetoKraus they swear there’s “no traffic throttling nor capping, nevertheless there is content filtering employed.” Dec 08 13:18
schestowitz What content? Dec 08 13:20
PetoKraus no idea Dec 08 13:20
schestowitz Content is a bad word Dec 08 13:20
schestowitz It turns information into something that’s just bits and bytes to underplay it. We didn’t censor information, we just ‘managed’ content. Dec 08 13:21
schestowitz Our friend Obama seems to be making friends with ‘friends’…. http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/08/ms-l… … Microsoft is no friend of net neutrality. Dec 08 13:21
schestowitz Intellectual monopolies, censorship, DRM… Microsoft sees that type of stuff as the future, but it’s not alone. Nokia is looking for journalists’ luv this week. Based on experience, they blend it with DRM and software patents. Choose Linux, not Symbian. Dec 08 13:23
schestowitz And problems other than culture and information show no signs of abatement, either. Brazil announces plan to slash rainforest destruction < http://www.guardian.co.uk/environmen… > Dec 08 13:23
Eruaran hello Dec 08 13:25
schestowitz Hey Dec 08 13:25
schestowitz http://www.getup.org.au/campaig… Dec 08 13:25
Eruaran I joined GetUp’s campaign Dec 08 13:35
schestowitz http://www.computerworld.com.au/article/269615/ant… “Opponents to the government’s Internet content filtering scheme will take to the streets in a series of protests planned in Australia’s capital cities.” Dec 08 13:36
Eruaran Already characterizing protesters as “rebels” ? Dec 08 13:37
schestowitz Where? Dec 08 13:39
schestowitz Rebels is code word for people who resist iron fist abuse. It’s right next to “terrorist” and worse than “activists” Dec 08 13:40
Eruaran “Anti Internet filtering rebels hit the streets” Dec 08 13:41
schestowitz Idiotic writer than. Wait until they call these rebels terror sympathisers or pedophiles. That always works. Dec 08 13:41
Eruaran I always notice the subtle use of words Dec 08 13:41
schestowitz “Pirates” Dec 08 13:42
Eruaran Not protesters, “rebels” Dec 08 13:42
Eruaran Notice its not called internet censorship its called “internet filtering” Dec 08 13:42
schestowitz Does the dictionary already have an entry for “pirate” that says “copyrights infringer”? http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/08… Dec 08 13:42
schestowitz Same thing. Dec 08 13:43
schestowitz Sharing -> stealing Dec 08 13:43
schestowitz Opposition -> Rebellion Dec 08 13:43
schestowitz “Value your freedom or you will lose it, teaches history. “Don’t bother us with politics,” respond those who don’t want to learn.”  –Richard Stallman Dec 08 13:44
Eruaran China’s censorship has resulted in a generation not knowing about the Tiananmen Square protests and massacare. Dec 08 13:44
schestowitz Or arrested for finding out. Dec 08 13:45
Eruaran I saw a documentary on tv that highlighted the tragedy Dec 08 13:45
schestowitz Stealing is when someone loses something. If I pass my book to a sibling, I don’t steal from the author. I just share what’s already in existence. In digital terms, there’s free duplication. Dec 08 13:45
schestowitz Words matter Dec 08 13:46
schestowitz “If thought can corrupt language, then language can also corrupt thought.” –George Orwell Dec 08 13:46
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Eruaran A journalist showed the famous picture of the “tank man” standing in front of a Chinese tank… they had no idea what it was. They asked if it was part of a parade. Dec 08 13:46
schestowitz That’s why people call the Iraq situation and invasion and practice repetition of it. Another word is occupation. Dec 08 13:46
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Eruaran Chinese students today have no idea what that picture represents… Students from the very same university that was at the center of the protests. Dec 08 13:47
Eruaran If you can control the information, you can control history… Dec 08 13:48
schestowitz Yes, of course. Dec 08 13:48
schestowitz But it’s not just in China. Dec 08 13:48
schestowitz There are records everywhere going missing or omitted from literature. Dec 08 13:48
Eruaran Just an example which highlights the tragedy Dec 08 13:48
schestowitz Some day in the future the Iraq invasion can be described like the “war” in Vietnam though control of pedagogues. Dec 08 13:49
schestowitz Then you make some nice films like Good Morning VIetnam Dec 08 13:49
schestowitz Or Pocahontas. People love film and remember them… kids especially  (early experiences) Dec 08 13:49
Eruaran When you have a moment in your country’s history that was less than 20 years ago, and you’re growing up in an environment where you’ll never know anything about it… that is disturbing. Dec 08 13:49
schestowitz That’s normal Dec 08 13:50
schestowitz But what level of access does one get to info? Dec 08 13:50
schestowitz The issue arises when Internet censorship, for instance, is being introduced. Dec 08 13:50
Eruaran yes Dec 08 13:50
schestowitz The big media doesn’t threaten voices. Dec 08 13:51
schestowitz It just ignored them… as in “first they ignore you” (not giving attention if not giving ‘bad advertising’, which is an oxymoron) Dec 08 13:51
schestowitz /if/is/ Dec 08 13:52
schestowitz *LOL* David taketh the pith… http://notnews.today.com/2008/12/07/uk-ci… (watch picture) Dec 08 13:52
schestowitz The picture also appears here: http://notnews.today.com/2008/12/05/i… Dec 08 13:55
schestowitz More US army brainwash in video games (this time it’s not glamorisation of war for a change): http://www.pcworld.com/article/155097/a… Dec 08 13:58
schestowitz “Microsoft Corp. will deliver eight security updates next week, six of them marked “critical,”” Not to worry… just total hijack of the PCs is possible for a while longer.. pray while waiting… http://www.pcworld.com/article/155083/m… Dec 08 14:00
Eruaran more work for us… Dec 08 14:01
Eruaran Maybe I should start a movement for a court case against Microsoft Dec 08 14:02
Eruaran On the basis of criminal negligence Dec 08 14:02
schestowitz That gets pricy. Microsoft is a marketing/law firm. Dec 08 14:02
schestowitz pricey Dec 08 14:02
schestowitz Since the early days Microsoft has stolen people’s technology. Then it got busy erasing the past Dec 08 14:02
Eruaran They’ve had many years to turn Windows into a resonably secure operating system… to do the things we all know must be done in order to have an operating system that is resonably secure. Dec 08 14:03
*mib_d3pc41 (i=76039f9d@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-20c93c51b585ef55) has joined #boycottnovell Dec 08 14:03
Eruaran So, we should all sue. Dec 08 14:03
schestowitz Obama Outlines Plan to Put Every Child Online < http://www.pcworld.com/article/15510… > Easy PEASY. Get all those machines the US dumps on Africa to keep away pollution… put DSL on it and dismantle the telecom’s shared monopoly Dec 08 14:03
mib_d3pc41 anyone notice that the ibm/canonical announcement has been changed to include novell (and red hat)? Dec 08 14:04
schestowitz Lots of companies want NOT to have children connected. Dec 08 14:04
schestowitz mib_d3pc41: when did that happen? Dec 08 14:04
mib_d3pc41 i just checked it Dec 08 14:04
mib_d3pc41 check google cache here: Dec 08 14:04
schestowitz I saw one IDG article (CompututerWorld) where NOVL and RHAT/RHT are mentioned Dec 08 14:04
mib_d3pc41 http://72.14.235.132/search?q=cache:k6GXIobp… Dec 08 14:04
mib_d3pc41 yes Dec 08 14:04
mib_d3pc41 but before it was only ibm and canonical Dec 08 14:05
schestowitz Hmmm… wait a moment Dec 08 14:05
mib_d3pc41 now novell and red hat is added Dec 08 14:05
Eruaran Can you imagine a giant mesh network with its own search engine capable of recognizing both content and your friends online… It would be Google with web presence. Dec 08 14:05
schestowitz http://www-03.ibm.com/press/us/en/pressr… Dec 08 14:06
schestowitz Can’t find SUSE or Novell Dec 08 14:06
schestowitz Eruaran: meshes scare them. Dec 08 14:06
Eruaran A ubiquitous mesh network would be revolutionary. Dec 08 14:06
mib_d3pc41 http://www-03.ibm.com/press/us/en/pre… Dec 08 14:06
schestowitz No centralised control (censorship) Dec 08 14:06
mib_d3pc41 there it is with novell and redhat Dec 08 14:06
schestowitz Oh wait… Dec 08 14:06
Eruaran schestowitz: I would call mesh the REAL web 2.0 Dec 08 14:06
schestowitz IThat;s the following day Dec 08 14:06
schestowitz 5/12 Dec 08 14:07
mib_d3pc41 ah Dec 08 14:07
schestowitz Maybe they revised it. Let’s see the diffs Dec 08 14:07
schestowitz Sometimes they have two press releases with similar pitch Dec 08 14:07
schestowitz Novell did that with PlateSpin last week Dec 08 14:07
schestowitz Two PRs, small differences Dec 08 14:07
schestowitz But it’s interesting nonetheless Dec 08 14:07
schestowitz Maybe they announced a Canonical-oriented desktop Dec 08 14:08
schestowitz Then Red Hat and Novell phoned in.. Dec 08 14:08
mib_d3pc41 yeah i only noticed it because of that same itwire story and didn’t remember  other s being involved Dec 08 14:08
schestowitz It was amusing to see Novell seemingly rebutting an article with me using some press release with an eerily similar headline. Dec 08 14:08
schestowitz Which itwire story? The troll? Dec 08 14:09
mib_d3pc41 the “why it will fail” article Dec 08 14:09
schestowitz mib_d3pc41: the first PR is about virtual desktop Dec 08 14:09
schestowitz The second seems to be a different product, but I’m not sure yet Dec 08 14:10
schestowitz mib_d3pc41: Ha. yes, the troll. Dec 08 14:10
Eruaran One day people will have a network that is perhaps something that mesh is a forerunner of… and they will look at our day and call this the dark ages. Dec 08 14:10
schestowitz He aggravates a lot. Dec 08 14:10
schestowitz IBM is stupid for marketing it as “Microsoft-free”. They should market “free” Dec 08 14:11
mib_d3pc41 Yeah it seems bold for IBM to come straight out like that Dec 08 14:11
schestowitz I want the IBM-free *and* Microsoft-free PC. They sell Lotus… stinkin’ lock-in. Dec 08 14:12
mib_d3pc41 maybe they are pissed about MS backing SCO and it’s a little slap in the face Dec 08 14:12
schestowitz And MOOX Dec 08 14:12
schestowitz They corrupted ISO Dec 08 14:12
schestowitz ISO if tainted for some time to come Dec 08 14:12
Eruaran I think its just that they see an opportunity in the market Dec 08 14:12
mib_d3pc41 no doubt, a least some nations had the decency to raise a stink about the ISO thing Dec 08 14:12
mib_d3pc41 USA noticeably NOT one of them Dec 08 14:13
schestowitz The cronies keep their chairs. There’s also people like Alex Brown and Lunds Stocholm. The ISO got poined. Dec 08 14:13
schestowitz *poinoned Dec 08 14:13
schestowitz Eruaran: So does Apple (MS bashing) Dec 08 14:13
schestowitz They are hypocrites, Apple especially. Dec 08 14:14
schestowitz This < http://www-03.ibm.com/press/us/en/pre… > and this < http://72.14.235.132/search?q=cach… seem identical > (first two paras). No Mandriva for IBM? Dec 08 14:16
mib_d3pc41 yeah sorry for the false alarm. I was going off memory of Novell not being in the original release Dec 08 14:18
schestowitz IBM helps the kernel and Linux helps IBM sell hardware Dec 08 14:18
schestowitz This is no charity to them. They owe a lot to F/OSS. Dec 08 14:19
schestowitz Does anyone sponsor the FSF? http://www.fsf.org/associate/ Dec 08 14:20
PetoKraus umm? Dec 08 14:20
schestowitz Heh. https://www.fsf.org/associate/car/ Dec 08 14:21
schestowitz It would be bad though if the FSF accepted money from companies. Dec 08 14:21
mib_d3pc41 FSF takes money from companies: http://www.fsf.org/donate/patron Dec 08 14:22
schestowitz https://www.fsf.org/about/leadership.html Dec 08 14:22
PetoKraus i’m member #6128 Dec 08 14:23
schestowitz IBM is there. Dec 08 14:23
schestowitz Col, PetoKraus Dec 08 14:23
schestowitz Novell was caught lying about supporting FSF Dec 08 14:23
PetoKraus over a year now, i think Dec 08 14:23
schestowitz Justin Steinman was the fool.. Dec 08 14:23
mib_d3pc41 It’s funny too, because Microsoft has an internal program where they match employee contributions Dec 08 14:24
mib_d3pc41 so there is a sizeable donation from that to the FSF Dec 08 14:24
schestowitz This is listed under FSF?? http://endsoftpatents.org/ Dec 08 14:25
schestowitz Weird… it’s the FFII guys Dec 08 14:25
schestowitz ping zoobab Dec 08 14:25
PetoKraus hmm HP’s there Dec 08 14:25
PetoKraus evil is becoming less? Dec 08 14:26
schestowitz Oh, wait.. I seee… Dec 08 14:26
MinceR the HP logo is funny there Dec 08 14:26
PetoKraus yeah Dec 08 14:26
schestowitz End Software Patents is FSF-related… that only links to /Stop/ Software Patents, which is more FFII-oriented Dec 08 14:26
PetoKraus MinceR: much better HP logo http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikip… Dec 08 14:26
schestowitz H-P… turncoats Dec 08 14:26
schestowitz Perens left the buggers Dec 08 14:27
MinceR :D Dec 08 14:27
schestowitz But they now have influence in GNOME… Stormy Peters Dec 08 14:27
PetoKraus schestowitz: i dunno man Dec 08 14:27
PetoKraus i am afraid my next box will be HP Dec 08 14:27
PetoKraus i don’t see dell or lenovo approaching AMD Dec 08 14:27
schestowitz The FSF site is small. Dec 08 14:28
schestowitz http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=mo… Dec 08 14:28
schestowitz PetoKraus: Acer does AMD Dec 08 14:29
schestowitz Also Novatech Dec 08 14:29
PetoKraus acer, come on Dec 08 14:29
schestowitz In the UK, go here: Dec 08 14:29
schestowitz http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/ Dec 08 14:29
schestowitz AMD, no Windows tax Dec 08 14:29
PetoKraus http://images.novatech.co.uk/titles/rang… Dec 08 14:30
PetoKraus i wish they sold the chick as well Dec 08 14:30
PetoKraus *were selling Dec 08 14:30
schestowitz They can’t . You can get the sofa though. Dec 08 14:32
schestowitz They are  a shop, not a pimp. Dec 08 14:32
PetoKraus it depends how much you pay Dec 08 14:32
PetoKraus :) Dec 08 14:32
trmanco http://colatrolls.blogspot.com/20… Dec 08 14:33
*mib_d3pc41 has quit (“http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client”) Dec 08 14:33
trmanco new entry, and there is already an anonymous comment stalking schestowitz Dec 08 14:33
schestowitz *LOL* “Roy Schestowitz is paid by Microsoft. He won’t deny it if you ask.” Dec 08 14:36
MinceR lol Dec 08 14:37
MinceR schestowitz: are you? Dec 08 14:37
schestowitz Yes. :-S Dec 08 14:39
kentma paid by MS – wow – how would that assertion be justified? Dec 08 14:39
schestowitz I help them document their crimes Dec 08 14:39
schestowitz It turns SweatyB on. Dec 08 14:39
MinceR lol Dec 08 14:43
PetoKraus lol Dec 08 14:51
PetoKraus the PC i’d like to get costs $840 now Dec 08 14:51
PetoKraus it’s the only thing that matches my requirements, though Dec 08 14:52
schestowitz Mine cost under GBP400, excluding the monitors Dec 08 14:52
PetoKraus this is laptop Dec 08 14:53
PetoKraus i hope the price will drop by the end of the summer Dec 08 14:53
schestowitz Get a desktop+sub-notebook then. Dec 08 14:56
PetoKraus nah Dec 08 14:57
PetoKraus i don’t need a desktop Dec 08 14:57
PetoKraus this thing is basically exactly what i need – 14.1 White LED display with AMD Turion Ultra processor and Radeon HD 3200 IGP, huge HDD, wireless N and 12 cell battery Dec 08 14:58
PetoKraus what i “need” Dec 08 14:58
PetoKraus i specifically need celeron 2400… Dec 08 14:58
PetoKraus though this would be “nice to have” Dec 08 14:58
schestowitz Intel??! Dec 08 14:58
PetoKraus intel? Dec 08 14:58
PetoKraus ah, celeron you mean Dec 08 14:58
PetoKraus no, i meant, that’s the machine we use as our media server Dec 08 14:58
schestowitz http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celeron “The Celeron brand is a range of x86 CPUs from Intel targeted at budget/value personal computers—with the motto, “delivering great quality at an exceptional value”.” Dec 08 14:59
schestowitz I have a Celeron right here (about 2.2GHz), but I haven’t used it since July. Dec 08 14:59
PetoKraus i’ve got one this summer Dec 08 15:00
PetoKraus it’s this thing… 2.4, 512 MB ram, 500 GB HDD, wireless card Dec 08 15:00
PetoKraus £100 Dec 08 15:00
schestowitz http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2… “Windows is the most common OS on the planet, and its usability as well as price falls somewhere in between OSX and Linux.” No proof, no citations… more mythology Dec 08 15:02
schestowitz First hand? Dec 08 15:02
PetoKraus no Dec 08 15:03
PetoKraus ebay Dec 08 15:03
schestowitz Oh. Dec 08 15:03
schestowitz I got mine for GBP165 in 2005 Dec 08 15:03
PetoKraus yeah, but i doubt that with 500GB HDD Dec 08 15:03
schestowitz It has no graphics card for multi-head Dec 08 15:03
schestowitz No, just 40GB Dec 08 15:03
schestowitz I have two large external HDDs Dec 08 15:04
kevin__ speaking of microsoft, i am now a victim of what i was talking about the other day :( Dec 08 15:10
kevin__ i have a laptop here which i have lost the recovery disks for Dec 08 15:10
kevin__ of course replacements cost over %100. my mother has an old pc that runs xp that she recently replaced. in a sane world, i would be able to remove the XP from that machine and put it on this one Dec 08 15:11
kevin__ 100$* Dec 08 15:11
kevin__ the government should be standing up for our rights to do such things Dec 08 15:12
schestowitz The government is them. Dec 08 15:12
schestowitz (corporations that can afford lobbies) Dec 08 15:12
kevin__ the worst part is, i have software that i need to run which only runs on windows. i do not want to support a company that does this to people though Dec 08 15:13
kevin__ if i buy a new pc, i am just contributing to the problem. perhaps i’ll look for an old laptop just to avoid paying ,icrosoft again Dec 08 15:14
kentma I think you need to vote with your feet here… Dec 08 15:14
schestowitz Richard Stallman: “I’m always happy when I’m protesting.” Dec 08 15:15
kentma perhaps because he’s not sitting back and letting the world happen to him?  He’s standing up to it? Dec 08 15:16
schestowitz *GASP* “The lack of Linux support is also going to be an impediment, especially since Adobe is making such a vigorous effort to please Linux users now.” Hands-on: building rich Internet apps with JavaFX 1.0 <  http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20081207-h… > Dec 08 15:17
schestowitz So it’s GPLv2-ed but no Linux support? What is Sun smokin’? Dec 08 15:17
MinceR they’re smoking printouts of slowlaris source code Dec 08 15:19
kentma If it’s GPLed, then it can be ported.  There’s nothing in the GPL to say that GPLed code must run on linux… Dec 08 15:33
*kapipi has quit (No route to host) Dec 08 15:36
*kapipi (n=tor@130.226.169.143) has joined #boycottnovell Dec 08 15:37
schestowitz Yes, but look at Chrome Dec 08 15:37
schestowitz Open source means all sorts of things. Dec 08 15:38
schestowitz What da…? “He explained the components of their system. HydroPoint has seven software patents for a system that calculates eighteen variables for any irrigation or outdoor water use system. Things like weather, soil type, grade or slope, amount of shade, crop or plant varieties.” < http://blogs.zdnet.com/green/?p=1513 >. This is like BM patents. Dec 08 16:08
schestowitz “The co-founder of Carphone Warehouse, David Ross, has resigned, after failing to notify the board that he used his shares in the company to underwrite personal loans.” http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/12/08/cpw_co… Dec 08 16:22
twitter Funny, http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/241488/vista-trigge… Dec 08 16:29
schestowitz LOL Dec 08 16:32
schestowitz “Within minutes he’d submitted another, more heated update. “I have nine macs!!!!!! I don’t need another f***ing mac. I just want ONE ARSING PC that isn’t complete SH*T.”” Dec 08 16:32
schestowitz “The pressure then really started to take its toll. “Listemn [sic] I have parallels, I have fusion, I have 2 distros of Linux. I need jsut [sic] one, just 1 of c***ing Vista so that I can review things.” Dec 08 16:33
schestowitz Dec 08 16:33
schestowitz Nice to see his typos. Even Sir Fry lets them be… :-) Dec 08 16:34
schestowitz Haha. Look at the right side of the Web site (IT Pro) Dec 08 16:37
kevin__ a class b subnet Dec 08 16:38
kevin__ i enjoyed that story about thumbdrives being banned btw :) Dec 08 16:38
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