EditorsAbout the SiteComes vs. MicrosoftUsing This Web SiteSite ArchivesCredibility IndexOOXMLOpenDocumentPatentsNovellNews DigestSite NewsRSS

12.16.08

Gentle Warning About OSBC 2009 and OSCON 2009

Posted in Free/Libre Software, Microsoft, Novell, SUN at 9:02 pm by Dr. Roy Schestowitz

“May contain Microsoft agenda”

IN my correspondence with Richard Stallman, it came up that if Microsoft steals the show at Free/open source events, as it did in OSBC 2008 for example [1, 2, 3, 4, 5], then we must respond.

It is therefore important to point out that OSBC 2009 has just been formally announced and Microsoft will be there. Actually, it’s more than just Microsoft because IDG, which has relationships with Microsoft, is organising this event.

“…IDG, which has relationships with Microsoft, is organising this event.”Another potential issue is OSCON 2009, which was announced earlier today in the form of a call for contributions/participation. OSCON’s long-maintained ties with Microsoft were noted here before, using lots and lots of evidence [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9]. Another O’Reilly-Microsoft connection (not just the funding) actually shows up in this very new blog post from Brady Forrest, who says that he used to work for Microsoft.

Last but not least, FOSDEM has got among its “Cornerstone Sponsors” Sun, Novell, and O’Reilly. We wrote about FOSDEM earlier this month. Voice-jacking can be very dangerous and we saw Novell doing this very recently in India [1, 2].

Name tag

Share this post: These icons link to social bookmarking sites where readers can share and discover new web pages.
  • Digg
  • del.icio.us
  • Reddit
  • co.mments
  • DZone
  • email
  • Google Bookmarks
  • LinkedIn
  • NewsVine
  • Print
  • Technorati
  • TwitThis
  • Facebook

If you liked this post, consider subscribing to the RSS feed or join us now at the IRC channels.

Pages that cross-reference this one

24 Comments

  1. Matt Asay said,

    December 17, 2008 at 9:25 am

    Gravatar

    Microsoft has apparently been hugely unsuccessful in buying out the minds and hearts of open source, given that it started sponsoring open-source events in 2001 and…most have gone out of business. Perhaps it needs to up its investment in “bribery”? :-)

    Point well taken, Roy, but I think you’re a bit off-base on this one. Microsoft has the right to participate in these events, same as Red Hat, Novell, etc. If you look at where OSBC’s sponsorship money comes from, Microsoft is a small drop in a big bucket.

  2. Roy Schestowitz said,

    December 17, 2008 at 9:40 am

    Gravatar

    Microsoft has apparently been hugely unsuccessful in buying out the minds and hearts of open source, given that it started sponsoring open-source events in 2001 and…most have gone out of business. Perhaps it needs to up its investment in “bribery”? :-)

    It’s not about the events. It’s about generated coverage that leads to deception.

    Microsoft has the right to participate in these events, same as Red Hat, Novell, etc.

    See the links above (about OSBC). I was not the only one who saw what was happening in OSBC 2008, where Microsoft’s presence was counter-productive (it was all just patent this and license that whilst Red Hat’s fantastic results got ignored).

    So Matt… when will Microsoft stop attacking GNU/Linux? Should we also invite Osama to Obama’s inauguration?

  3. Tim O'Reilly said,

    December 17, 2008 at 4:13 pm

    Gravatar

    Talk about fighting the last war! Microsoft is no longer the big kahuna. Do you also object to the participation of companies like IBM, Sun, HP, etc? How about Google, Yahoo! or Amazon? All of these companies are a mix of proprietary and open source. (Even Red Hat is a mixture.)

    The world has moved on. You obviously have not.

    The kinds of issues that matter to open source today are no longer defined by the Linux-Windows axis. (In fact, they have never mattered all that much to OSCON, which has always been much more about the intersection of open source and the internet, and the way that open source was enabling the next generation of applications.)

    We continue to pursue that vision of open source at OSCON, as it remains clear to us that it’s the one that matters. Back when we started OSCON, it might not have been clear to you that the future of open source was on the internet, but it was clear to us.

    Ask yourself: who matters more to the future of open source today? Google, or Microsoft? If you answer Microsoft, you’re out of touch. If you answer Google, and think hard about it, you must realize just how much of an irrelevance your backward-facing alarmism represents.

    Microsoft needs open source. I confidently predict that as the years go by, it will become clearer and clearer that there is little or no advantage in proprietary software as Microsoft used to practice it. The frontier of proprietary advantage has moved on to proprietary algorithms running against proprietary databases.

  4. jo Shields said,

    December 17, 2008 at 4:19 pm

    Gravatar

    It’s a Tim!

    I wouldn’t waste too much of your time. For your critical post,
    you’ve probably been pre-branded as a “shill” or someone with “vested interests” already, who fits into the big conspiracy somwehere. If you’re lucky, you’ll see links to the old Halloween documents and frerences to the infamous “slog”. At best you can be a “heckler”, and expect demands of why you’re here if you don’t love the site long time.

  5. Roy Schestowitz said,

    December 17, 2008 at 4:49 pm

    Gravatar

    @Tim:

    Talk about fighting the last war! Microsoft is no longer the big kahuna. Do you also object to the participation of companies like IBM, Sun, HP, etc? How about Google, Yahoo! or Amazon? All of these companies are a mix of proprietary and open source. (Even Red Hat is a mixture.)

    They hardly attack GNU/Linux and Free software.

    The world has moved on. You obviously have not.

    Microsoft attacks GNU/Linux and Free software every other week. Can you not see it? What sources do you follow?

  6. Tim O'Reilly said,

    December 17, 2008 at 4:51 pm

    Gravatar

    The point is: does it matter?

    Microsoft will eventually be your ally. History tells us that those losing in the technology wars embrace open source to undermine their opponent. I’d expect, for example, numerous Microsoft open source announcements in the area of search and other web 2.0 cash cows to be a big part of the future.

  7. Roy Schestowitz said,

    December 17, 2008 at 4:58 pm

    Gravatar

    Microsoft licences are not Free software. They want to modify the meaning of F/OSS. Then, and only then, will they be willing to ‘embrace’ it.

    To use an analogy, I can take my dog out on a leash, but the dog wants to be off the leash. What Microsoft proposes is the equivalent of cutting off the dog’s feet before letting the leash be loose. The dog is not free. It suffers from new disabilities… like software patents.

  8. jo Shields said,

    December 17, 2008 at 5:31 pm

    Gravatar

    Microsoft licences are not Free software.

    Roy Schestowitz. Because the FSF are all shills with vested interests.(tm)

  9. Roy Schestowitz said,

    December 17, 2008 at 5:36 pm

    Gravatar

    Microsoft steers developers the way it wants (and needs) them to go.

  10. jo Shields said,

    December 17, 2008 at 5:47 pm

    Gravatar

    Cute. Slanted & wrong, but certainly cute.

    Why not just say, in clear terms, that you think the FSF are shilling in their listing of two Microsoft Shared Source licenses as Free, rather than simultaneously pretending both that those licenses don’t exist and that you can “never be sure” (your words) whether a product is under a Free license.

    You know, because obviously nobody is capable of looking at the license and saying “oh fiddlesticks, this is non-free rubbish” or “hey, this is GPLv3 compatible, great”

  11. Roy Schestowitz said,

    December 17, 2008 at 5:53 pm

    Gravatar

    The FSF does not recommend Microsoft licences, so you can stop using the FSF to make up endorsements for the company whose technology you love so much.

  12. jo Shields said,

    December 17, 2008 at 5:59 pm

    Gravatar

    The FSF does not recommend Microsoft licences, so you can stop using the FSF to make up endorsements for the company whose technology you love so much.

    WHOOP WHOOP, DISTORTION ALARM

    I never said they “recommend” them, I said they were listed as Free licenses. Here’s the reality, for anyone who wants to verify:
    http://www.fsf.org/licensing/licenses/#ms-pl – “This is a free software license, compatible with version 3 of the GNU GPL”
    http://www.fsf.org/licensing/licenses/#ms-rl – “This is a free software license; it has a copyleft that is not strong, but incompatible with the GNU GPL.”

    They disrecommend use of Ms-RL not because of Freedom issues, but because it is not GPL-compatible. The same applies for widely used Free licenses like CDDL or MPL.

    They disrecommend use of Ms-PL not because of Freedom issues, but because it duplicates the functionality of the more widely used Apache License 2.0

    Painting either license as non-free IS FLAT-OUT LYING, AND YOU KNOW IT

  13. Roy Schestowitz said,

    December 17, 2008 at 6:03 pm

    Gravatar

    Microsoft hasn’t just two licences.

    You can stop SHOUTING. It’s bad enough that you heckle this Web site 24/7 and spout out vulgar words.

  14. jo Shields said,

    December 17, 2008 at 6:12 pm

    Gravatar

    Microsoft hasn’t just two licences.

    WHOOP WHOOP, DISTORTION ALARM

    At which point did I say they only had two licenses? I said two of them were FSF-approved as Free, counter to your “all MS software is non-free” lie. Even the FSF have a nice non-free license on the books, does that mean all their licenses are non-free?

    You can stop SHOUTING. It’s bad enough that you heckle this Web site 24/7 and spout out vulgar words.

    I didn’t realise someone with such truth issues could also be such a sensitive flower. However, vulgarity is in the eye of the beholder. I find lies much more vulgar than Norse.

    I’m employing bold to help casual readers spot your distortions, since you have never taken an interest in correcting yourself when engaged in self-referential lying.

  15. Roy Schestowitz said,

    December 17, 2008 at 6:23 pm

    Gravatar

    No, you’re disagreeing with perspective, so you start tossing feces all over the place and hope that others will walk out.

  16. jo Shields said,

    December 17, 2008 at 6:32 pm

    Gravatar

    Perspective on what?

    Hm, I’d be wasting my time asking you not to change the subject, wouldn’t I?

    As for tossing faeces, Google shows five instances of me using a terribly mean and horrible word meaning poopie on your site. The same Google shows 120 total instances, including a number from you. But we wouldn’t want evidence to get in the way of a good martyrdom complex would we?

  17. G. Michaels said,

    December 17, 2008 at 6:38 pm

    Gravatar

    Maybe people need some context here. The issue at hand is that Roy Schestowitz (and his friends are essentially an anachronism, the bottom of the barrel as far as FOSS advocacy is concerned.

    They are, for lack of a better word, extremists. This is a loaded term, obviously, but I think it fits the shoe quite well. All one has to do is read his IRC logs to get the “feeling” for the mindset that eventually filters up to make up the content of this blog.

    Did you defend Microsoft? Or even just challenged some outrageous, misleading claim he made? Well then, you’re obviously on their payroll. Did you not say the correct things about FOSS? Well then, you’re an idiot. Do you or have you ever lived within 10,000 nautical miles of Redmond, WA? Hah! Surely you are Bill Gates’ minion. Did you accuse him of something? You’re guilty of shooting the messenger. But don’t complain when he does it and calls you a “heckler” or a “shill”, or worse. Look in awe as he points to opinion on the internet that seems to click with his (never mind his nymshifter collaborators from Slashdot who probably post all of that), and cower in fear as he dismisses any you bring forth as propaganda. Pity him as he claims he’s being “stalked” and then sends out his friends to do the same to you (Bruce Byfield anyone?).

    You see, Roy is fighting for “good”. His concept of it, which a great deal many people find objectionable at best. But because of that, he considers himself to be above any criticism whatsoever. To question what he says – no matter how wrong or insulting it is – is to side with evil. To dare utter something along the lines of dude, that’s ridiculous about his constant harping on about the Novell stock price, three edits made four years ago to the MSN article on Wikipedia by some PR firm or the journalists who were “bribed” with laptops or any other of his pet topics is to invite instant attack by him and his cadre of fearless advocates.

    If no one disputes something he said, then he must be right. If someone does, then they’re doing it because he’s right. That’s how he thinks. That’s how they think. Blame everything on vague conspiracies, bring up decades-old quotes and move on. Their job is complete as far as they’re concerned. Every time I see him defending the indefensible I’m reminded of the typical fanboy (pick your technology here) claiming the abuse they get for being so narrow-minded and insulting is just proof that he’s right. And of course, all the incorrect, misleading and plain out false claims and fabrications eventually make it into tomorrow’s posts as “proof”. He’s caught in a vicious circle of self-delusion and he can’t even see it. Or maybe he does, but he just doesn’t care.

    Roy’s ultimate problem is that he doesn’t understand his flawed and abrasive approach to ‘evangelism’ gets him nothing more than the undying adoration of a few and the disdain of the many. As a self-professed representative of the FOSS community, he does more harm than good. But he doesn’t see this. Maybe he just can’t.

    I’m glad that respected figures like Tim O’Reilly, Matt Asay and Bruce Byfield are pushing back on all this. Eventually people will come to understand that caricatures like Roy Schestowitz with an axe to grind and an article quota to fill are not worth listening to. I hope so. Microsoft needs real competition and oversight, not little nuisances yapping at its feet with cute GIMP’ed images and fabrications that are transparent to most honest FOSS advocates. All the silly red text in the world appended to comments he finds discomforting is not going to prevent that.

    Note: writer of this comment adds absolutely nothing but stalking and personal attacks against readers, as documented here.

  18. Roy Schestowitz said,

    December 17, 2008 at 6:39 pm

    Gravatar

    “Martyrdom”?

    You sure have a way of putting a twist of people’s rights and freedom.

  19. jo Shields said,

    December 17, 2008 at 6:42 pm

    Gravatar

    That was pretty insightful, with a bare minimum of twitter-related rambling. G. Michaels, you do us proud

  20. Roy Schestowitz said,

    December 17, 2008 at 6:44 pm

    Gravatar

    I’m sure you loud hecklers are very proud of each other.

  21. jo Shields said,

    December 17, 2008 at 6:53 pm

    Gravatar

    Oh, absolutely. We giggle about it in the lunch room in the secret Slog lair underneath Redmond. :rolleyes:

    I’m getting an early night. Now’s the time to post any baby-eating stories you don’t want dissected for a few hours.

  22. G. Michaels said,

    December 17, 2008 at 6:58 pm

    Gravatar

    @jo: Thanks :) Actually Roy thinks I’m some sort of inanimate puppet sent from the depths of Hades to make him exercise his mastery of WordPress, but aside from enjoying giving his nymshifter friend some well-deserved payback for the crapstorm he subjected all of us on Slashdot the past few years, I am honestly interested in how advocacy works, and I find myself fascinated by the extremes I see. On both sides of the fence.

    @Roy:

    You sure have a way of putting a twist of people’s rights and freedom.

    I don’t claim to speak for jo, and I’m sure your friend ‘twitter’ can come down here and accuse me of being him (or me being everyone else, etc) and you can correct him as usual, but I believe that jo is referring to the way you claim you are “taking one for the team” when people who are obviously tired of you (and posses lots of free time it would seem) post childish and crude things about you on the internet, when, again, the reason you attract so much antagonism is simply because of your approach to advocacy. I’ve seen you claim time after time after time that Microsoft is somehow responsible for all the abuse you see yourself subjected to, but to date I’ve yet to lay my eyes on a single piece of evidence that supports that claim. Ditto for most of your collaborators who claim they are “watched” and “targeted”. Perhaps I haven’t been paying enough attention? I’d love to see that properly documented (and I mean properly, not just with rambling prose and vague accusations). That would certainly change my perception of your activities.

    Note: writer of this comment adds absolutely nothing but stalking and personal attacks against readers, as documented here.

  23. Roy Schestowitz said,

    December 17, 2008 at 7:02 pm

    Gravatar

    @jo Shields:

    Trying to exaggerate things wildly achieves nothing but showing your contempt.

    Why do you leave hundreds of comments in this Web site? Just to protest?

  24. Jo Shields said,

    December 18, 2008 at 5:15 am

    Gravatar

    Why do you leave hundreds of comments in this Web site? Just to protest?

    Partly for my own amusement. Partly for the amusement of my peers. Partly in an effort to educate people who might be fooled by your special brand of lies.

    Certainly not for YOUR benefit. There’s no point. I don’t think you could tell the truth on some topics anymore even if you wanted to.

What Else is New


  1. The Linux Foundation is Not About Linux

    Linux Foundation (LF) objectives/missions do not resemble what the Open Source Development Labs, Inc. (OSDL) was founded to accomplish; this puts at grave threat the very raison d'être of both GNU and Linux



  2. Guest Post: The Linux Foundation Needs to Define “Support”

    Part of an ongoing series of articles we do about the Linux Foundation



  3. Dimitris Xenos on Unconstitutional Supranational Arrangements for Patent Law: Leaving Out the Elected Legislators and the People’s Participatory Rights

    A new paper from a British scholar proves to be timely because of the EPO's violations of the European Patent Convention (EPC) and failed push to force-feed Europe with the unconstitutional Unified Patent Court (UPC)



  4. The Campinos-Battistelli Strategy is Working: Patent Trolls Are Coming to Europe!

    It cannot be any less obvious that today's European Patent Organisation (and Office) works for patent offices and for those who pay these patent offices (law firms) rather than for science, technology and the public (including the European public)



  5. Links 25/3/2019: Linux 5.1 RC2, Nano 4.0, PyPy 7.1

    Links for the day



  6. Links 24/3/2019: Microsoft Does Not Change; Lots of FOSS Leftovers

    Links for the day



  7. Just Published: Irrational Ignorance at the Patent Office

    Iancu and his fellow Trump-appointed "swamp" at the USPTO are urged to consult academics rather than law firms in order to improve patent quality in the United States



  8. Microsoft Paid the Open Source Initiative. Now (a Year Later) Microsoft is in the Board of the Open Source Initiative.

    The progression of Microsoft entryism in FOSS-centric institutions (while buying key "assets" such as GitHub) isn't indicative of FOSS "winning" but of FOSS being infiltrated (to be undermined)



  9. Jim Zemlin's Linux Foundation Still Does Not Care About Linux Desktops

    We are saddened to see that the largest body associated with Linux (the kernel and more) is not really eager to see GNU/Linux success; it's mostly concerned about its bottom line (about $100,000,000 per annum)



  10. Links 23/3/2019: Falkon 3.1.0 and Tails 3.13.1

    Links for the day



  11. The Unified Patent Court is Dead, But Doubts Remain Over the EPO's Appeal Boards' Ability to Rule Independently Against Patents on Nature and Code

    Patents used to cover physical inventions (such as engines); nowadays this just isn't the case anymore and judges who can clarify these questions lack the freedom to think outside the box (and disobey patent maximalists' dogma)



  12. Patent Law Firms Still Desperate to Find New Ways to Resurrect Dead Software Patents in the United States

    There's no rebound and no profound changes that favour software patents; in fact, judging by caselaw, there's nothing even remotely like that



  13. Links 22/3/2019: Libinput 1.13 RC2 and Facebook's Latest Security Scandal

    Links for the day



  14. Why the UK Intellectual Property Office (UK-IPO) Cannot Ignore Judges, Whereas the EPO Can (and Does)

    The European Patent Convention (EPC) ceased to matter, judges' interpretation of it no longer matters either; the EPO exploits this to grant hundreds of thousands of dodgy software patents, then trumpet "growth"



  15. The European Patent Office Needs to Put Lives Before Profits

    Patents that pertain to health have always posed an ethical dilemma; the EPO apparently tackled this dilemma by altogether ignoring the rights and needs of patients (in favour of large corporations that benefit financially from poor people's mortality)



  16. “Criminal Organisation”

    Brazil's ex-President, Temer, is arrested (like other former presidents of Brazil); will the EPO's ex-President Battistelli ever be arrested (now that he lacks diplomatic immunity and hides at CEIPI)?



  17. Links 21/3/2019: Wayland 1.17.0, Samba 4.10.0, OpenShot 2.4.4 and Zorin Beta

    Links for the day



  18. Team UPC (Unitary Patent) is a Headless Chicken

    Team UPC's propaganda about the Unified Patent Court (UPC) has become so ridiculous that the pertinent firms do not wish to be identified



  19. António Campinos Makes Up Claims About Patent Quality, Only to be Rebutted by Examiners, Union (Anyone But the 'Puff Pieces' Industry)

    Battistelli's propagandistic style and self-serving 'studies' carry on; the notion of patent quality has been totally discarded and is nowadays lied about as facts get 'manufactured', then disseminated internally and externally



  20. Links 20/3/2019: Google Announces ‘Stadia’, Tails 3.13

    Links for the day



  21. CEN and CENELEC Agreement With the EPO Shows That It's Definitely the European Commission's 'Department'

    With headlines such as “EPO to collaborate on raising SEP awareness” it is clear to see that the Office lacks impartiality and the European Commission cannot pretend that the EPO is “dafür bin ich nicht zuständig” or “da kenne ich mich nicht aus”



  22. Decisions Made Inside the European Patent Organisation (EPO) Lack Credibility Because Examiners and Judges Lack Independence

    The lawless, merciless, Mafia-like culture left by Battistelli continues to haunt judges and examiners; how can one ever trust the Office (or the Organisation at large) to deliver true justice in adherence or compliance with the EPC?



  23. Team UPC Buries Its Credibility Deeper in the Grave

    The three Frenchmen at the top do not mention the UPC anymore; but those who promote it for a living (because they gambled on leveraging it for litigation galore) aren't giving up and in the process they perpetuate falsehoods



  24. The EPO Has Sadly Taken a Side and It's the Patent Trolls' Side

    Abandoning the whole rationale behind patents, the Office now led for almost a year by António Campinos prioritises neither science nor technology; it's all about granting as many patents (European monopolies) as possible for legal activity (applications, litigation and so on)



  25. Where the USPTO Stands on the Subject of Abstract Software Patents

    Not much is changing as we approach Easter and software patents are still fool's gold in the United States, no matter if they get granted or not



  26. Links 19/3/2019: Jetson/JetBot, Linux 5.0.3, Kodi Foundation Joins The Linux Foundation, and Firefox 66

    Links for the day



  27. Links 18/3/2019: Solus 4, Linux 5.1 RC1, Mesa 18.3.5, OSI Individual Member Election Won by Microsoft

    Links for the day



  28. Microsoft and Its Patent Trolls Continue Their Patent War, Including the War on Linux

    Microsoft is still preying on GNU/Linux using patents, notably software patents; it wants billions of dollars served on a silver platter in spite of claims that it reached a “truce” by joining the Open Invention Network and joining the LOT Network



  29. Director Iancu Generally Viewed as a Lapdog of Patent Trolls

    As Director of the Office, Mr. Iancu, a Trump appointee, not only fails to curb patent trolls; he actively defends them and he lowers barriers in order to better equip them with bogus patents that courts would reject (if the targets of extortion could afford a day in court)



  30. Links 17/3/2019: Google Console and IBM-Red Hat Merger Delay?

    Links for the day


CoPilotCo

RSS 64x64RSS Feed: subscribe to the RSS feed for regular updates

Home iconSite Wiki: You can improve this site by helping the extension of the site's content

Home iconSite Home: Background about the site and some key features in the front page

Chat iconIRC Channel: Come and chat with us in real time

CoPilotCo

Recent Posts