IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: December 29th, 2008 - Part 2

Dr. Roy Schestowitz

2008-12-30 10:46:50 UTC
Modified: 2008-12-30 10:46:50 UTC

schestowitz	I know sites that offer services	Dec 29 15:16
schestowitz	Like search lookups or Digg API-based tools	Dec 29 15:16
schestowitz	But what are they doing really?	Dec 29 15:16
schestowitz	They sure are self-funded and they offer not much of use, so they get abandoned.	Dec 29 15:16
trmanco	keeping a record of uptimes that's all	Dec 29 15:17
schestowitz	Newsflash...	Dec 29 15:24
schestowitz	PJ might no longer do Groklaw	Dec 29 15:24
trmanco	:O	Dec 29 15:24
trmanco	why is that?	Dec 29 15:24
schestowitz	Long story.	Dec 29 15:24
schestowitz	Want me to bore you with a long story?	Dec 29 15:24
schestowitz	It's annoying. Lots of sites are dying, and not just FOSS sites but also news site (I mentioned ECT the other day).	Dec 29 15:25
schestowitz	UK wants to censor the web now < http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/ne... >	Dec 29 15:27
schestowitz	Looks like even Mr. MS TE has run out of gas at his blog after a strong start; hopefully he'll pick up steam again. We'll find out some more about Microsoft's unethical behaviour.	Dec 29 15:27
schestowitz	Here's something of interest, since I've just had a conversation about it.	Dec 29 15:33
schestowitz	I'll spill my mind out quickly. ;-)	Dec 29 15:33
schestowitz	As you may aware, I was drawn to a world of research that I did not know too well but fulfilled my curiosity nonetheless (no, not my academic field). The things people said about critics... the way people were threatened... you can maybe find it in the archives on the Internet, but I prefer not to give it visibility.	Dec 29 15:34
schestowitz	Hard experiences can change a person and a person's writing style. PJ uses a style that's kind of decent - she didn't mince words, but I think that there was enough of a difference that she was taken more seriously by the media, and therefore was frequently quoted.	Dec 29 15:35
schestowitz	So anyway, maybe it's time for BN to tone it down a bit	Dec 29 15:35
schestowitz	With PJ perhaps permanently giving up active management to Groklaw, we might want to consider where we want to set the tone control at the site, as I expect we should see a big bump of traffic coming your way.	Dec 29 15:36
schestowitz	These links from Wintel press add very little to us because we deliver 22,000+ pages/day. The participation level from readers is low though. Maybe it's because of the language used.. and the trolls who attack readers.	Dec 29 15:36
schestowitz	Many sites die and I don't want to see BN going the way of the dodo. Shane, my co-editor, is in a similar situation (his sarcasm was misunderstood last night). Bruce Perens likewise... and many more sites that I read... they drop like flies. I reckon the economic crisis may be related to it, at least in part.	Dec 29 15:37
schestowitz	So I'll try to sound more formal. I will bear this in mind when I write, but if I slip, drop me a note and tell me off. Another issue is the sneaking of bad language through commenters who are trying to do exactly that and bring me/the site down to their level. Groklaw deleted obscene comments for this reason.	Dec 29 15:38
schestowitz	Then again, re: language, I don't know whether that's a good idea or not, as the style may be very effective, and we're clearly pulling good traffic, so a lot of folks are tuning in to hear what we have to say.	Dec 29 15:39
schestowitz	I've been in contact with PJ for almost 3 years and she too was drawn into being more emotional when she typed (we all need 'cool down' time sometimes, but when you post at a high pace, there is no such time). She did preach to me about writing style and there are still temptations to deviate and to just spell out what you know for a fact sometimes.	Dec 29 15:39
schestowitz	I keep trying to improve by slowing down and taking time to 'cool off' because mood affects language (and vice versa).	Dec 29 15:39
schestowitz	To use a sketchy analogy, there are things we are not allowed to say or do, but it is hard to avoid them, even it costs us our reputation. I still learn to restrain myself and not to read the libel about me as it only distracts. I don't censor anyone and it comes at a cost. It means you're sunk down to troll's level.	Dec 29 15:40
schestowitz	The real reason for all this is that it's important that we use sources with a range of reputations for impartiality, not trolls.	Dec 29 15:41
schestowitz	Watch how Beranger gets ignored by almost everyone	Dec 29 15:41
schestowitz	If we were all as pointed in our styles, then Microsoft, SCO et al could simply say, "Pay no attention to them - they clearly have an axe to grind, and it wouldn't matter what we do, they would still trash us." That would leave only the secret Microsoft supporters for people to listen to.	Dec 29 15:42
schestowitz	That said, BN was cited by Spiegel, Forbes, InformationWeek, IDG (e.g. ComputerWorld), OpenOffice.org front page, etc. People appreciate what they find there and while many are shy to comment and cite they /do/ read it.	Dec 29 15:42
schestowitz	Likewise, I read some literature and watch some videos that I would rather not cite... about government-induced ignorance and propaganda (even explained by distinguished professors). It helps people like us understand how things work, and how they can be generalised, and what we can pick from them.	Dec 29 15:43
schestowitz	Part of what I think people pay a lot of attention to is just style. So I'll try and avoid words like "shill," "puppet," and so on, and let the facts speak for themselves, while at the same time not trying to disguise or hide my opinions.	Dec 29 15:43
schestowitz	zoobab: NoOOXML failed this test too. Sadly for me, Shane chose a bad site name, which I was never happy with but still unable to change. The name leads to prejudice. From a practical point of view, relocation is not possible now. :-( No-OOXML does not sound exactly like an impartial source, does it?	Dec 29 15:44
schestowitz	As PJ said, the k00k status the trolls gave critics using endless libel might make it harder to be treated fairly. The way these things work, the slime tries bringing you down to its levels so that you'll be seen or perceived as slime. The places where I post have intelligent people, but they are not moderated, so they get abused like you wouldn't imagine.	Dec 29 15:45
schestowitz	trmanco: that's why the trolls in COLA fake people like Terry and attack RMS so frequently.	Dec 29 15:46
trmanco	:\|	Dec 29 15:46
schestowitz	They haven't attacked you yet, have they?	Dec 29 15:47
schestowitz	When they do, you'll know you do something right. :-)	Dec 29 15:47
schestowitz	They also stalk me in Digg where they attack me with words and mod points.	Dec 29 15:47
schestowitz	They do the same to twitter in Slashdot	Dec 29 15:47
schestowitz	They attack him, lead him to escaping to new accounts and then attack those too	Dec 29 15:48
schestowitz	Not that I endorse the idiotic idea of multiple accounts	Dec 29 15:48
schestowitz	But I can understand his frustration because silencing the messenger is exactly what they tried to do	Dec 29 15:48
schestowitz	And one former admin of Slashdot has just conffrmred to me that Micrrosoft does do this in Slashdot	Dec 29 15:49
schestowitz	I don't know about Digg, but it''s similar.	Dec 29 15:49
schestowitz	They see IPs and stuff that people can't see.	Dec 29 15:49
schestowitz	So it's only natural to assume that they very well know what they have in their hands and in Slashdot, for example, they put twitter in the front page quite a lot	Dec 29 15:50
schestowitz	They know he's being targetted.	Dec 29 15:50
schestowitz	Anywhoo... that's me getting back to my thing. I need to write a report	Dec 29 15:50
trmanco	LOL ok	Dec 29 15:56
schestowitz	Mostly omission of cruft	Dec 29 15:57
Omar87	Is it true that the FaunOS project has been discontinued?	Dec 29 16:00
schestowitz	Likely	Dec 29 16:02
schestowitz	I haven't heard about it in almost a year	Dec 29 16:02
schestowitz	1970: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=h1A2ZZAfEn8	Dec 29 16:13
Omar87	schestowitz: Okay this is weird.	Dec 29 16:22
Omar87	When I checked it out on DistroWatch, it clearly says: "This distribution is active", and the same thing with Arch Linux.	Dec 29 16:23
trmanco	Arch Linux is active	Dec 29 16:23
Omar87	But how come on Wikipedia, it says: "as of semptember 2008", this project has been discontinued.. ?_?	Dec 29 16:24
Omar87	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FaunOS	Dec 29 16:24
trmanco	I have no idea	Dec 29 16:24
Omar87	This means that either the DistroWatch page is out-dated, or that the WikiPedia page is a made by one of those little brats..	Dec 29 16:27
Omar87	What freaks you out even more is that the FaunOS site, itself doesn't say anything about discontinuation.	Dec 29 16:29
schestowitz	Out of date I reckon	Dec 29 16:29
Omar87	What is out of date?	Dec 29 16:30
schestowitz	http://www.google.com/search?num=50&...	Dec 29 16:30
schestowitz	" FaunOS (discontinued lasdt September 2008)"	Dec 29 16:31
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seller_liar	Damn!	Dec 29 16:35
seller_liar	Novell is attacking OO again!	Dec 29 16:35
seller_liar	http://developers.slashdot.org/article.pl...	Dec 29 16:35
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seller_liar	Hey homer	Dec 29 16:46
seller_liar	Novell is attacking again	Dec 29 16:46
seller_liar	Why we must do?	Dec 29 16:46
seller_liar	What we must do?	Dec 29 16:46
schestowitz	Hey	Dec 29 16:47
seller_liar	hello rot	Dec 29 16:47
seller_liar	roy	Dec 29 16:47
schestowitz	seller_liar: I wrote about it twice	Dec 29 16:47
schestowitz	:-) common typo. I do it too sometimes	Dec 29 16:47
seller_liar	I know	Dec 29 16:47
schestowitz	What else can I do?	Dec 29 16:47
schestowitz	Some sites linked to my rebuttals.	Dec 29 16:47
seller_liar	I was trying to read slashdot arguments	Dec 29 16:48
seller_liar	and I was trying to destroy novell arguments	Dec 29 16:48
schestowitz	Slashdot is airing old new	Dec 29 16:48
schestowitz	*news. Shame on them	Dec 29 16:48
schestowitz	Two companies gain from this	Dec 29 16:48
seller_liar	But I was reading the arguments	Dec 29 16:48
schestowitz	Novell, because it's more pwoer and support contracts	Dec 29 16:48
seller_liar	Some people try to defend	Dec 29 16:48
schestowitz	Microsoft too, as it makes another civil war	Dec 29 16:48
schestowitz	Fragmentation and all...	Dec 29 16:48
seller_liar	I remember , it's similar at rms vs theo	Dec 29 16:49
seller_liar	Hey roy ,try to do some questions in openoffice site	Dec 29 16:49
seller_liar	Try to contact oo devs	Dec 29 16:50
seller_liar	and explains the reasons for Sun don t permit all contribuitiosn	Dec 29 16:50
seller_liar	*and try to ask the reasons for oo does not permit all contribs	Dec 29 16:50
schestowitz	I know the reaons.	Dec 29 16:51
seller_liar	Tell me	Dec 29 16:51
schestowitz	It's accentuated by Novells	Dec 29 16:51
seller_liar	Business?	Dec 29 16:51
schestowitz	*Novell	Dec 29 16:51
schestowitz	Control over code, just like in Linux.	Dec 29 16:51
schestowitz	You can't slip things into Linux, either.	Dec 29 16:52
seller_liar	Control over code is important for Sun.Sun is the major open souce contrbutor and needs thist type of controle	Dec 29 16:52
schestowitz	Meeks daemonises OOo based on character ("they are bad people") and technical stuff ("they lack features, so download Go-OOXML")	Dec 29 16:52
seller_liar	What novell wants?	Dec 29 16:53
schestowitz	seller_liar: businesses would not pick something built by any arbitrary patcher, either. OOo is an important project	Dec 29 16:53
seller_liar	Novell wants to own OO	Dec 29 16:53
schestowitz	it stores national archives and such, billing, etc.	Dec 29 16:53
seller_liar	seller_liar: Of course	Dec 29 16:53
schestowitz	Look how WordPress got poisoned	Dec 29 16:53
schestowitz	Someone sneaked in a back door... I can't recall which version	Dec 29 16:53
schestowitz	To Microsoft it almost happened too	Dec 29 16:53
schestowitz	They caught and arrested the culprit in India	Dec 29 16:54
schestowitz	LOL @ <seller_liar> seller_liar: Of course	Dec 29 16:54
schestowitz	It's like in Lord of the Rings.	Dec 29 16:54
schestowitz	"My preeeeecious	Dec 29 16:54
seller_liar	If all organizations and govts uses go-ooxml ,m$ gains power because	Dec 29 16:54
seller_liar	OOXML	Dec 29 16:54
seller_liar	schestowitz: Oh sorry	Dec 29 16:54
schestowitz	Well, never mind that	Dec 29 16:55
schestowitz	If Novell holds the userbase, then Microsoft has greater temptation to buy Novell	Dec 29 16:55
schestowitz	It would then butter both sides of the toast	Dec 29 16:55
schestowitz	http://www.zuco.org/science-vs-ad...	Dec 29 16:56
seller_liar	we mus put ooxml and moonlgiht as sh*t	Dec 29 16:57
schestowitz	How?	Dec 29 16:58
seller_liar	It's a good thing to put ooxml and moonlight as piece of sht	Dec 29 16:58
seller_liar	Gnu dejects moonlight and OOXML	Dec 29 16:58
schestowitz	You're competing with Novell PR and the press, which can be bought	Dec 29 16:59
schestowitz	So you must put your bets on people's trust	Dec 29 16:59
schestowitz	And the trolls in BN try to erode trust in us.	Dec 29 16:59
seller_liar	I don t know what we must do	Dec 29 17:01
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schestowitz	"With retail, housing and even hi-tech grinding to a bit of a halt in recent months, most commentators would agree that 2009 is going to be a slow year." < http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/... >	Dec 29 17:21
schestowitz	"Slow year..." Understatement of the year [pun]	Dec 29 17:22
schestowitz	http://techdirt.com/articles/20081228/... (Australian Net Censorship Plan Delayed Temporarily)	Dec 29 17:32
*Omar87 has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))		Dec 29 17:36
schestowitz	Available Now: Lunar Linux 1.6.4 < http://news.softpedia.com/news/Avail... > Looks neat.	Dec 29 17:43
schestowitz	:-S Downturn will slow Mozilla's growth < http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi... >	Dec 29 17:50
neighborlee	friend tried lunar once, he gave up.	Dec 29 17:50
neighborlee	and he's a longtime linux'er	Dec 29 17:50
schestowitz	What's it based on?	Dec 29 17:50
neighborlee	dont recall what his issues were atm but I could ask	Dec 29 17:50
neighborlee	why was commenter so angry about moonlight in debian,,its not like its part of the installer or has something changed recently ?	Dec 29 17:53
schestowitz	I think it's in the repos	Dec 29 17:53
schestowitz	The infection is gradual	Dec 29 17:53
schestowitz	Let the finger go, soon it's the fist and the arm	Dec 29 17:53
schestowitz	I don't trust Mono and Go-OOXML	Dec 29 17:53
neighborlee	heh	Dec 29 17:53
schestowitz	brb	Dec 29 17:54
neighborlee	I dont either,,its clear what they are trying to do	Dec 29 17:54
neighborlee	you'd have to had lived under a rock the last few years or so , to not get that m$ does not have linux interest at 'heart' lol	Dec 29 17:55
neighborlee	I wondered about that too..the 'shane' comment had to be fake	Dec 29 17:57
neighborlee	it made no sense , coming from 'ex' editor	Dec 29 17:57
neighborlee	ie: out of character	Dec 29 17:57
neighborlee	as in completely ;)	Dec 29 17:57
schestowitz	watch the go-ooxml web site	Dec 29 17:58
schestowitz	Read the first sentence.	Dec 29 17:58
schestowitz	It comes without saying that.. well, Miguel helped resolving comments on OOXML	Dec 29 17:58
schestowitz	He was helping Microsoft win standards war.	Dec 29 17:58
schestowitz	Like he does with .NET	Dec 29 17:58
neighborlee	pitifullly obvious yup	Dec 29 17:58
schestowitz	Like he sort of 'attacked' the EU commissioner for 'daring' to criticise Microsoft.	Dec 29 17:59
neighborlee	trouble is we find these things because we, as linux users worried about siuch things, take the time TO check these things out	Dec 29 17:59
schestowitz	"Why the EU regulators are wrong" I think was his little piece of mind.	Dec 29 17:59
neighborlee	most users may not have time, they just use their computers	Dec 29 17:59
schestowitz	You can google it.	Dec 29 17:59
neighborlee	yup	Dec 29 17:59
neighborlee	so such things can easily slip under most users radar	Dec 29 18:00
schestowitz	Re: shane. Check later comments.	Dec 29 18:00
neighborlee	kinda like government..some pay attention, some dont	Dec 29 18:00
neighborlee	ok	Dec 29 18:00
neighborlee	I totally agree with twitter,,shane comments made zero sense	Dec 29 18:00
schestowitz	I don't know what he saw.	Dec 29 18:00
schestowitz	But I paste a comment from a reader.	Dec 29 18:01
schestowitz	It made a lot of sense to me.	Dec 29 18:01
schestowitz	*pasted	Dec 29 18:01
neighborlee	well I mean the indida part	Dec 29 18:01
schestowitz	He doesn't know what happened.	Dec 29 18:01
neighborlee	you had notihng to do with that,,that was ALL novel	Dec 29 18:01
neighborlee	I caught that immediately too	Dec 29 18:01
schestowitz	No one was arrested	Dec 29 18:01
schestowitz	They were escorted out.	Dec 29 18:01
neighborlee	yes, but the point was not you guys,it was al novel	Dec 29 18:01
schestowitz	For a /friendly/ non-violent protest where they used posters	Dec 29 18:02
neighborlee	yup I know all about it	Dec 29 18:02
neighborlee	I keep up ;)	Dec 29 18:02
neighborlee	mostly ;)	Dec 29 18:02
neighborlee	honeslty though..if shane was that misinformed about the india incident, I think im glad he's a 'ex' editor.	Dec 29 18:03
neighborlee	still doesn't make sense	Dec 29 18:04
neighborlee	ok I just read 12/129 post..and I think he really does need a vacation	Dec 29 18:05
neighborlee	I've read MANY posts on this site of yours , and while I dont consider myselfr a poster boy for BN on ANY level ( I have a mind of my own, and thx I use it) I never felt BN engaged in attacks compared to the level of disgust I felt coming from types like Jo, alex, yadda...there is zero comparison imho.	Dec 29 18:06
schestowitz	Hm.......	Dec 29 18:11
schestowitz	Messages bounce of my server.	Dec 29 18:11
schestowitz	From one server to another. very odd.	Dec 29 18:11
neighborlee	bounce ? ;)	Dec 29 18:12
schestowitz	A message that you sent could not be delivered to one or more of its	Dec 29 18:12
schestowitz	recipients. This is a permanent error. The following address(es) failed:	Dec 29 18:12
schestowitz	r@schestowitz.com	Dec 29 18:12
schestowitz	SMTP error from remote mail server after RCPT TO:<r schestowitz com>:	Dec 29 18:12
schestowitz	host lin-mx100.hosting.catalyst2.com [194.176.124.192]:	Dec 29 18:12
schestowitz	550 mx for transport sender domain - pass3.dizinc.com - should be a fqdn.	Dec 29 18:12
schestowitz	Like 30 of them since the morning.	Dec 29 18:12
schestowitz	I've had some issues with the filters recently.	Dec 29 18:12
schestowitz	People can't mail me because it rejects them	Dec 29 18:12
neighborlee	ah ok	Dec 29 18:12
neighborlee	nasty	Dec 29 18:13
neighborlee	want me to try?	Dec 29 18:13
schestowitz	I tested it myself.	Dec 29 18:14
schestowitz	I'll tell the bost	Dec 29 18:14
schestowitz	host	Dec 29 18:14
neighborlee	sent	Dec 29 18:15
schestowitz	"Recently I've had mail bouncing back to some people who mailed me. I think it's a filtering thing. Here is a sample..."	Dec 29 18:17
schestowitz	Even close friends had it bounce	Dec 29 18:17
neighborlee	eek	Dec 29 18:17
schestowitz	You know, I missed many meetings cause of this	Dec 29 18:17
schestowitz	In fact, I blame the Windows zombies for all that SPAM chaos	Dec 29 18:18
schestowitz	Windows killed E-mail..	Dec 29 18:18
neighborlee	sorry to hear that	Dec 29 18:19
schestowitz	Oh wait.	Dec 29 18:19
schestowitz	It seems like it's on the other hand	Dec 29 18:19
schestowitz	Subscribers have bounces as well.	Dec 29 18:19
neighborlee	hm	Dec 29 18:20
neighborlee	mine has not come back yet	Dec 29 18:20
schestowitz	I think I know what's happening.	Dec 29 18:20
schestowitz	Some stupid spammers use scatterback	Dec 29 18:21
schestowitz	They create false accounts in BN	Dec 29 18:21
schestowitz	This leads to many E-mails being sent to non-extistnt addresses.	Dec 29 18:21
schestowitz	So maybe the host clogged it up	Dec 29 18:21
schestowitz	That's the best explanation I can find.	Dec 29 18:22
schestowitz	Dana uses bald Britney Spears to talk about patents: http://blogs.zdnet.com/open-s...	Dec 29 18:26
neighborlee	oooook , this outta be rich ;)	Dec 29 18:26
schestowitz	I've just disabled registrations	Dec 29 18:28
schestowitz	OK.... http://boycottnovell.com/wp-login.php	Dec 29 18:28
schestowitz	But the host needs to ensure mail can go through	Dec 29 18:29
schestowitz	Those spammers ruin so much. I've just hd to close comments on old items because of them	Dec 29 18:29
schestowitz	I spend like an hour a week just reading about feet fetish, viagra, casino and other spam.	Dec 29 18:30
schestowitz	So now it's impossible for people to comment on old item.. because of spammers	Dec 29 18:30
schestowitz	Now registrations are closed.	Dec 29 18:30
neighborlee	hm	Dec 29 18:30
neighborlee	I used to have no end of spam issues until I started using gmail	Dec 29 18:30
neighborlee	now I never get any to speak of,unless I check out spam folder.	Dec 29 18:31
schestowitz	You can still lose messages that way	Dec 29 18:32
schestowitz	Unless you check that folder too	Dec 29 18:32
schestowitz	In which case you separate spam but not eliminate it	Dec 29 18:32
schestowitz	Ha!!	Dec 29 18:32
schestowitz	I got an E-mail	Dec 29 18:32
schestowitz	Maybe that sorted things out.	Dec 29 18:32
neighborlee	good ;)	Dec 29 18:33
neighborlee	maybe my email saved you for today <ha-ha>	Dec 29 18:33
neighborlee	yes I try to remember to check somewhat regular to avoid losing things :))heh	Dec 29 18:33
schestowitz	I spent extra time this morning checking comments cause I haven't notification	Dec 29 18:34
schestowitz	I typically have nice animated popups that alert me when comments drop in, so I can reply fast	Dec 29 18:34
schestowitz	Let me see if the host fixed it.	Dec 29 18:34
schestowitz	What did you mail?	Dec 29 18:35
schestowitz	Oh I see now	Dec 29 18:35
schestowitz	Wrong address. :-)	Dec 29 18:35
schestowitz	I redirect to to one of my 22 E-mail accounts on schestowitz.com	Dec 29 18:35
neighborlee	lol	Dec 29 18:35
neighborlee	I just used what you posted in here a moment agoi	Dec 29 18:35
neighborlee	-i	Dec 29 18:36
neighborlee	install fast! lol	Dec 29 18:36
schestowitz	LOL	Dec 29 18:36
schestowitz	That was confuisng... I got too E-mails from "Lees"	Dec 29 18:36
schestowitz	One was from Peter Lee.	Dec 29 18:36
neighborlee	lol	Dec 29 18:36
schestowitz	"Greetings!	Dec 29 18:36
schestowitz		Dec 29 18:36
schestowitz	URGENT BUSINESS PROPOSAL FOR YOU, FROM HONG KONG!!!!	Dec 29 18:36
schestowitz		Dec 29 18:36
schestowitz	It is understandable that you might be a little bit apprehensive because you do	Dec 29 18:36
schestowitz	not know me, Please forgive this unusual manner to contact you, but this	Dec 29 18:36
schestowitz	particular letter/email is of exceptional"	Dec 29 18:36
neighborlee	rofl	Dec 29 18:36
schestowitz	06:00 PM	Dec 29 18:37
schestowitz	Coincidence	Dec 29 18:37
neighborlee	do they really think anyone is fooled by this garbage ;)	Dec 29 18:37
schestowitz	So I was like, "what that other lee thing"?	Dec 29 18:37
schestowitz	*what's	Dec 29 18:37
neighborlee	ha	Dec 29 18:37
neighborlee	had a good xmas I hope ;)	Dec 29 18:38
neighborlee	we certainly did	Dec 29 18:38
schestowitz	I did, yeah..	Dec 29 18:38
schestowitz	I still have some days to rest	Dec 29 18:38
schestowitz	Next year will be a killer	Dec 29 18:39
schestowitz	IMH(assessment)	Dec 29 18:39
schestowitz	http://schestowitz.com/Weblog/archi...	Dec 29 18:39
neighborlee	itw as to be somewhat sad as my father had passed away on 9/4 so I wasn't looking fwd to it, but it was a family feeling to it as we went to friends new house,,and it was grand day ;)	Dec 29 18:39
schestowitz	I'm so sorry to hear it.	Dec 29 18:39
neighborlee	could very well be yes	Dec 29 18:39
neighborlee	np at all	Dec 29 18:39
schestowitz	You told me before.	Dec 29 18:39
neighborlee	he was not happy in rest home, on any level	Dec 29 18:39
neighborlee	np ;)	Dec 29 18:39
schestowitz	This reminded me to ensure I disclose stuff, in case of worst circumstances.	Dec 29 18:40
schestowitz	http://schestowitz.com/Weblog/archives/2008/...	Dec 29 18:40
neighborlee	now he is with our mother, who went on in 1987 brain cancer..he's now totaly happy, where before only marginally	Dec 29 18:40
neighborlee	ok kewl	Dec 29 18:40
schestowitz	Good to hear that.	Dec 29 18:40
neighborlee	it truly is yup	Dec 29 18:41
schestowitz	Forcing people to be down here on Earth is not always fair to them. My grandma knows this.	Dec 29 18:41
neighborlee	yes quite.	Dec 29 18:41
schestowitz	But that's a private story, I think.	Dec 29 18:41
neighborlee	my grandma only lasted one month in nursing home	Dec 29 18:41
neighborlee	she told me before she had no desire to goto one, and she didnt last long	Dec 29 18:42
schestowitz	Actually, I leave too much room for speculation here, so I'd rather say it now,	Dec 29 18:42
neighborlee	gotcha	Dec 29 18:42
schestowitz	She was almost 90 and she overdosed her pills because she didn't like moving into a parents' home	Dec 29 18:42
schestowitz	Which is fair enough, it was her choice	Dec 29 18:42
schestowitz	Trying to save her is not what she wanted, but the doctors were close.	Dec 29 18:43
neighborlee	well you know,,only god can judgte	Dec 29 18:43
neighborlee	judge	Dec 29 18:43
schestowitz	Then there's my dog, Jenny.	Dec 29 18:43
schestowitz	She was like 17.	Dec 29 18:43
schestowitz	Almost blind.	Dec 29 18:43
neighborlee	and somehow I doubt the god I know, judges terribly harshly ..we all have to come to grips with morality on various levels I guess but god I think is above it all	Dec 29 18:43
neighborlee	err you know what I mean ;)	Dec 29 18:43
schestowitz	http://schestowitz.com/Weblog... http://schestowitz.com/Weblog/arch...	Dec 29 18:44
neighborlee	17 is good long life for dog yup	Dec 29 18:46
neighborlee	losing them is rough..I was raised around dogs and cats so I get very close to them	Dec 29 18:46
neighborlee	ist like losing a child when they go...unconditional love is a stinker when its gone o_0	Dec 29 18:47
neighborlee	getting a new poochie from shelter though has been rewarding beyond measure..	Dec 29 18:48
neighborlee	checking	Dec 29 18:48
neighborlee	ah yes they make great companions	Dec 29 18:50
neighborlee	friends we spent xmas with have 2 , very similar	Dec 29 18:50
neighborlee	very w arm dogs	Dec 29 18:50
neighborlee	once I start paying attention to them its all over for anyone else :)hehe	Dec 29 18:51
neighborlee	including humans ,haha	Dec 29 18:51
neighborlee	schestowitz, ohbtw..why does your site cause firefox scrollbar to react so slowly..some sites do it and I have always wondered why	Dec 29 18:52
schestowitz	My sister took it harder anyway	Dec 29 18:52
neighborlee	common	Dec 29 18:52
schestowitz	Maybe translucence?	Dec 29 18:52
schestowitz	*cy?	Dec 29 18:52
neighborlee	men are not told its ok to have emotions afterall ;)	Dec 29 18:52
neighborlee	no idea	Dec 29 18:53
schestowitz	Attachment depends on upbringing.	Dec 29 18:53
schestowitz	Some men are drained out of human emotion so that they join the army and become tools.	Dec 29 18:53
schestowitz	The aspiration is to have people so soulless that they are just detached from emotions and attacked to a machine (not just in the physical sense)	Dec 29 18:54
schestowitz	But that often is the nature of predatory capitalism where success can only be measured in terms of physical gain.	Dec 29 18:54
neighborlee	yes army can do that	Dec 29 18:54
schestowitz	And likewise, a person success is judged from the outside in terms of countable objects or numbers that are analogous to them.	Dec 29 18:55
schestowitz	neighborlee: can? it does.	Dec 29 18:55
neighborlee	I never went in,my f ather was medic in navy though	Dec 29 18:55
neighborlee	wellI mean	Dec 29 18:55
schestowitz	What do you think boot camp is about	Dec 29 18:55
neighborlee	I think some people take it differently than others	Dec 29 18:55
neighborlee	like why one person cant take a given type of stress, while someone else is overall fine	Dec 29 18:55
schestowitz	It's about insulting and demeaning to the point where a person is thankful just to have a bed, a meal and 5 hours of sleep	Dec 29 18:55
schestowitz	neighborlee: I think it's mostly education-driven	Dec 29 18:56
neighborlee	yup I know of this	Dec 29 18:56
schestowitz	You can grow people to be mosters if you try	Dec 29 18:56
neighborlee	thast the whole idea	Dec 29 18:56
neighborlee	thats	Dec 29 18:56
schestowitz	You can make them paranoid and afraid of stangers by introducing c"Creatures" and "witches"	Dec 29 18:56
neighborlee	that way its easier to killl..	Dec 29 18:56
schestowitz	Whether it's productive and intructive is a sepate issue	Dec 29 18:56
neighborlee	travesty	Dec 29 18:56
schestowitz	Poeple did experiements to study the impact of fear on character of children.	Dec 29 18:57
schestowitz	FPSes are about trainin people to kill	Dec 29 18:57
schestowitz	Thing is... Jack Thompson gave a bad name to people who point this out	Dec 29 18:57
neighborlee	sigh	Dec 29 18:57
schestowitz	By accusing Gates of things that Microsoft has not done... violent games that just run but don't make	Dec 29 18:57
schestowitz	The military actually funds some of these games and people demand them because of peer pressure	Dec 29 18:58
neighborlee	too many violent games out there now	Dec 29 18:58
schestowitz	You can trivially manufacture a desire for such games by repeatedly showing them in a "cool" context on TV	Dec 29 18:58
schestowitz	Violent is "Cool"	Dec 29 18:58
neighborlee	I can tell you 100% if such games had been out there in my childhood and I was caught playing them, BYE BYE computer for a VERY long time.	Dec 29 18:58
schestowitz	Ask any kid who watches Rambo films and such	Dec 29 18:58
neighborlee	yup thats the idea	Dec 29 18:59
schestowitz	War is glorified.	Dec 29 18:59
neighborlee	of course	Dec 29 18:59
schestowitz	Fighting the "bad guys" for Uncle Sam is glamorised	Dec 29 18:59
schestowitz	And America has 'heroes' (like the new song) who kill the 'bad guys' in Iraw	Dec 29 18:59
schestowitz	*Iraq	Dec 29 18:59
neighborlee	nasty	Dec 29 18:59
schestowitz	Yeah... 1.3 million 'bad' guys... and gals... and kids... and babies.	Dec 29 18:59
neighborlee	war is easier than actuallly having to made new fr iends..to bush and his cronies anyway	Dec 29 19:00
neighborlee	thakfullly thats all over	Dec 29 19:00
neighborlee	we hope ;)	Dec 29 19:00
schestowitz	Well, they used to have friends.	Dec 29 19:02
neighborlee	but it wont end there..the mentality of love thy neighbor has to extend everywhere for things to truly change globally..thats going to take alot of work but I think obama has alot of the right 'stuff' or at least desire to make them reality	Dec 29 19:02
neighborlee	yup	Dec 29 19:02
schestowitz	The United States was a big friend of Mr. Hussein.	Dec 29 19:02
neighborlee	yes	Dec 29 19:02
schestowitz	But he was no longer willing to be their puppet	Dec 29 19:02
neighborlee	what a mess	Dec 29 19:02
schestowitz	Apart from the atrocities	Dec 29 19:02
schestowitz	[which by the way were assisted by Thatcher and ... was it Ronald?]	Dec 29 19:02
neighborlee	not sure, I wasn't very political back then..not at all	Dec 29 19:03
neighborlee	having enough trouble living life as it was, to be so.	Dec 29 19:03
schestowitz	I'm not sure about Obama anymore	Dec 29 19:03
neighborlee	well	Dec 29 19:03
neighborlee	im not in love with some of his choices ,,	Dec 29 19:03
schestowitz	Biden is pro-war and Rahm Emanuel was appointed too. He might be worse.	Dec 29 19:03
neighborlee	so to that ill just say, w'ell see o_0	Dec 29 19:03
schestowitz	So you could choose between brands	Dec 29 19:03
neighborlee	I think he is so worried about taking middle ground that he mnight be slightly blinded ..but we'll see ;)	Dec 29 19:04
schestowitz	The Obama ("Change") brand or "the other thing" (more of the same). But the people who made the core of it have similar policies.	Dec 29 19:04
schestowitz	They are, after all, funded by the same companies.;-)	Dec 29 19:04
neighborlee	buck stops with obama though	Dec 29 19:04
neighborlee	but we'll see..he is in charge of his own desitny..	Dec 29 19:05
neighborlee	destiny o_0	Dec 29 19:05
schestowitz	"Come everyone, it's been 4 years, come and vote.. behold the 'choice'... feel the democracy... never mind if you live in a one-party state... of corporcracy"	Dec 29 19:05
schestowitz	Sheesh	Dec 29 19:05
schestowitz	Destiny, Unity, Change	Dec 29 19:06
schestowitz	Nice slogan he got there.	Dec 29 19:06
neighborlee	:)	Dec 29 19:06
schestowitz	http://www.hmnl.nl/HMNL/web.nsf/v... I really commend these attempts to push IBM to do the Right Thing. I've already tried without much success.	Dec 29 19:11
schestowitz	There's some response to that word about PJ.. "Wow -- that's news to me. Her site always impressed me and I felt like she got it right in the way she did things. I hope that, if she quits, then she can find someone else to pick up the mantel." I hope she stays	Dec 29 19:13
schestowitz	She's not replying to mails	Dec 29 19:13
neighborlee	Idont worry allot about some things..things I cant control , but things I can I try to make a difference of course...abs. power corrupts yadda..those who think power makes them formiddable forget the eye of needle teaching,,some have power and use it for good though .	Dec 29 19:13
schestowitz	Power for change works	Dec 29 19:14
schestowitz	new example: http://techdirt.com/articles/2008122... (Australian Net Censorship Plan Delayed Temporarily)	Dec 29 19:14
schestowitz	Old examples: feminisms, people against slavery, etc.	Dec 29 19:14
neighborlee	yes	Dec 29 19:14
neighborlee	such things we've always had with us, just given a new name ;)	Dec 29 19:15
schestowitz	Novell chnages because of BN also	Dec 29 19:15
schestowitz	There are confirmed examples	Dec 29 19:15
schestowitz	http://go.theregister.com/feed/www....	Dec 29 19:19
schestowitz	UK.gov to push Obama for tougher rules online "The culture secretary Andy Burnham has suggested the UK should lead an international effort to introduce cinema-style age ratings on websites to prevent children accessing "unacceptable" material online."	Dec 29 19:23
trmanco	anyone know the ascii code for (R)	Dec 29 19:26
trmanco	?	Dec 29 19:26
schestowitz	I just copy and paste it.	Dec 29 19:27
schestowitz	"A trademark or trade mark, identified by the symbols Ã¢âÂ¢ and €®"	Dec 29 19:28
trmanco	I just wanted the R with the circle around it to make fun of something :-P	Dec 29 19:28
trmanco	ha thanks	Dec 29 19:28
schestowitz	From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trademark	Dec 29 19:28
neighborlee	schestowitz, about time pron was put to a early rest..I wasn't raised that way, and im saddened to see it flourish on any level	Dec 29 19:31
neighborlee	to me it taints what love, and love making are meant to be.	Dec 29 19:32
neighborlee	but thats just me, some might call me old fashioned ;)	Dec 29 19:32
neighborlee	lol	Dec 29 19:32
schestowitz	That's The Register	Dec 29 19:34
schestowitz	I was reading tech news and it showed u	Dec 29 19:34
schestowitz	So I thought I'd share it in spirit of the err.. winter	Dec 29 19:34
neighborlee	:)	Dec 29 19:43
schestowitz	These winters are probable fake anyway	Dec 29 19:45
trmanco	lol @ schestowitz's spamchaff page	Dec 29 19:46
trmanco	http://schestowitz.com/spamchaff	Dec 29 19:46
trmanco	interesting	Dec 29 19:46
MinceR	:)	Dec 29 19:47
trmanco	OT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...	Dec 29 19:59
schestowitz	trmanco: I borrows the idea	Dec 29 20:00
schestowitz	With attribution	Dec 29 20:00
schestowitz	[from my boss at the time (around 2003)	Dec 29 20:00
trmanco	LOL	Dec 29 20:00
trmanco	its funny	Dec 29 20:00
schestowitz	He too borrowed it from somewhere	Dec 29 20:00
schestowitz	He was getting about 50 SPAM per day at the time	Dec 29 20:00
schestowitz	The following year, Gates said SPAM would vanish	Dec 29 20:00
schestowitz	In Davos he said that, IIRC	Dec 29 20:01
schestowitz	Found it ""Spam will be a thing of the past in two years’ time." --Bill Gates, 2004	Dec 29 20:01
schestowitz	Botmaster later stepped down, but SPAM did not end.	Dec 29 20:01
schestowitz	http://boycottnovell.com/2008/06/...	Dec 29 20:02
trmanco	it is all a lie	Dec 29 20:03
schestowitz	http://tecnicos.escenf.unam.edu.ar/codigo-a...	Dec 29 20:04
schestowitz	That cartoon I madq very quickly has spread quite far.	Dec 29 20:04
trmanco	LOOL	Dec 29 20:05
trmanco	I'll brb	Dec 29 20:05
schestowitz	Just stumbled upon http://blip.tv/file/1618916	Dec 29 20:05
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trmanco	back	Dec 29 20:11
schestowitz	Perceived Value Is Reality http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2008/1...	Dec 29 20:28
schestowitz	Think about Apple and MS products. "But what kind of incentive is most effective and brings the most return for the retailer? A discount? A gift? Free shipping?"	Dec 29 20:29
schestowitz	'Discounted' Windows (does it cost anything to make a copy?)	Dec 29 20:29
schestowitz	$2000 Macs...\	Dec 29 20:30
schestowitz	OOo responds to Novell: http://blogs.sun.com/GullFOSS/entry/the_...	Dec 29 20:35
schestowitz	I think it's a response, but it's subtle	Dec 29 20:35
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neighborlee	checking	Dec 29 20:45
Tallken	checked	Dec 29 20:46
Tallken	schestowitz, http://www.crunchgear.com/2008/12/29/bri... -- the title says it all ^^	Dec 29 20:47
schestowitz	Thanks, old news :-)	Dec 29 20:47
schestowitz	From last week :-) But thanks!	Dec 29 20:47
schestowitz	I'm doing rebuttal to the Go-OOXML-imposed FUD Novell unleashed	Dec 29 20:48
Tallken	ok :p	Dec 29 20:48
trmanco	I only saw that today too	Dec 29 20:49
neighborlee	yeah I wont use notepad or wordpay anymore..oo all the way baby	Dec 29 20:49
schestowitz	Tallken: let me see...	Dec 29 20:50
schestowitz	You might enjoy what I wrote about it: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12...	Dec 29 20:50
schestowitz	It's mostly a news accumulation from that day	Dec 29 20:50
trmanco	http://fedorasolved.org/	Dec 29 20:54
neighborlee	I was using fedora but I kinda gave up,,I could not get skype to work audio wize no matter what I tried and never got forum help..for me it was under 'must work' item.	Dec 29 20:56
Tallken	schestowitz, thanks	Dec 29 20:56
neighborlee	trmanco, sad but true	Dec 29 20:56
trmanco	neighborlee, good thing that you have choice	Dec 29 20:56
neighborlee	trmanco, I dont see it that way	Dec 29 20:57
trmanco	what dist is working for you at the moment?	Dec 29 20:57
neighborlee	trmanco, but I get the point.	Dec 29 20:57
neighborlee	mandriva	Dec 29 20:57
trmanco	never tried it	Dec 29 20:57
neighborlee	2009 kde lived-installed	Dec 29 20:57
trmanco	cool	Dec 29 20:57
neighborlee	well..at least mandriva has no mono,,at least not in default recommended,,same as fedora	Dec 29 20:57
trmanco	Fedora 9 doesn't work for me very well either (school)	Dec 29 20:58
Tallken	i deleted saturday my second gentoo partial install by accident	Dec 29 20:58
neighborlee	ouch	Dec 29 20:58
neighborlee	sorry to hear that	Dec 29 20:58
trmanco	oops	Dec 29 20:58
Tallken	i want a rolling distro	Dec 29 20:58
neighborlee	arch is I think	Dec 29 20:58
trmanco	what do you mean by rolling?	Dec 29 20:58
neighborlee	so is mint I think	Dec 29 20:58
Tallken	ya arch is gathering much momentum	Dec 29 20:58
neighborlee	yeah	Dec 29 20:58
Tallken	mint as well?	Dec 29 20:58
neighborlee	seems so	Dec 29 20:59
Tallken	but I've asoft spot for Gentoo	Dec 29 20:59
Tallken	trmanco, always updated	Dec 29 20:59
trmanco	ok thanks	Dec 29 20:59
Tallken	trmanco, instead of: relase, stable for 6 months, release, stable for 6 months and so on	Dec 29 20:59
neighborlee	I like gentoo for its ability to customize via USE, but I never could see past hastle of compiling everything I wanted to use..	Dec 29 20:59
Tallken	or for two here if you use to a LTS and don't wish to upgrade	Dec 29 20:59
Tallken	USE="-mono" ^^	Dec 29 20:59
neighborlee	ROFL	Dec 29 21:00
neighborlee	indeed ;)))	Dec 29 21:00
Tallken	well there are three issues with Gentoo	Dec 29 21:00
trmanco	yeah I get it	Dec 29 21:00
Tallken	the community is in bad shape, though now it's on the track to reorganize	Dec 29 21:00
trmanco	I've tried Arch on a VM	Dec 29 21:00
trmanco	I like its package manager	Dec 29 21:00
trmanco	pacman :D	Dec 29 21:00
neighborlee	Tallken, glad to hear that	Dec 29 21:00
neighborlee	trmanco, yup	Dec 29 21:00
Tallken	emerge is kinda wacko -- not a problem for me since I'm used to it but a newbie will get nuts with circular dependencies	Dec 29 21:00
trmanco	I used to do a lot of pacman -Syu	Dec 29 21:01
neighborlee	Tallken, ouch	Dec 29 21:01
trmanco	I haven't tried gentoo, yet	Dec 29 21:01
neighborlee	make sure you have at least 6 hours free ;)	Dec 29 21:01
Tallken	though I think it's actually a fix which is causing it, initially it would install though some depedencies weren't met, but on the building process things would go right :p	Dec 29 21:01
neighborlee	or so depending how fast your system is ;))))	Dec 29 21:01
trmanco	neighborlee, LOL	Dec 29 21:02
Tallken	neighborlee, more. I was installing Gentoo in /gentoo	Dec 29 21:02
neighborlee	:)	Dec 29 21:02
Tallken	and was planning to switch the files' place once I had it all compiled	Dec 29 21:02
Tallken	using a LiveCD	Dec 29 21:02
Tallken	and there is one issue missing	Dec 29 21:02
Tallken	but can't remember which one was :p	Dec 29 21:02
neighborlee	is gentoo livecd finally doable or is stilll in category of only if your a linux enthusiast ;)	Dec 29 21:03
schestowitz	Tallken: check out the arch IRC channel. it's /loaded/	Dec 29 21:05
schestowitz	3 times as many people as #mandriva	Dec 29 21:05
Tallken	neighborlee, I didn't even used it	Dec 29 21:05
Tallken	used old install method	Dec 29 21:05
Tallken	a bunch of tar.gz	Dec 29 21:05
Tallken	and you're on the right track :p	Dec 29 21:05
neighborlee	yup most do	Dec 29 21:06
neighborlee	well arch is for a different community entirely ;)	Dec 29 21:07
neighborlee	one are major geeks and another are regular users who moonlight as geeks ;)	Dec 29 21:07
neighborlee	imho of course :)	Dec 29 21:07
neighborlee	oops damn I said moonlight	Dec 29 21:07
Tallken	lol	Dec 29 21:07
neighborlee	:)	Dec 29 21:07
Tallken	Arch is new Gentoo... Gentoo had a wonderful community back in old days	Dec 29 21:08
Tallken	*Arch is the new...	Dec 29 21:08
neighborlee	yea but can arch compile with use flags,,or some equiv?	Dec 29 21:08
neighborlee	that is a big deal	Dec 29 21:08
neighborlee	I mean for those who are into it per se	Dec 29 21:08
MinceR	gentoo has docs though :>	Dec 29 21:10
Tallken	neighborlee, you can use local use flags, since you can use ABS to build your own custom package	Dec 29 21:11
Tallken	as for global ones, for example, if one wishes to disable mono for the whole system, I'm unaware	Dec 29 21:12
neighborlee	MinceR, heh	Dec 29 21:18
neighborlee	yeah docs rock ;)	Dec 29 21:18
neighborlee	few/bad docs can ruin a project..	Dec 29 21:19
neighborlee	game engine I user, just got a user from another engine where bad docs etc. brought them over..stuff happens ;(	Dec 29 21:19
neighborlee	............use	Dec 29 21:19
schestowitz	http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/29/jimmi-hugh-w...	Dec 29 21:22
schestowitz	I don't get it. They bend backwards to defend mischief.	Dec 29 21:22
schestowitz	Some days ago I saw a denialist changing history on Microsoft's "letters from dead people". Amazing!!	Dec 29 21:23
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schestowitz	Rebuttal: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/29/sun-r...	Dec 29 21:37
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schestowitz	Netsplit	Dec 29 21:38
Tallken	the investigators can create a file with the desired MD5sum	Dec 29 21:38
Tallken	but it's a data filled with garbage	Dec 29 21:38
trmanco	but still, you haven't answered my question	Dec 29 21:38
schestowitz	Just in case:	Dec 29 21:39
schestowitz	<trmanco>which is stronger and more secure? SHA1 or MD5?	Dec 29 21:39
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schestowitz	Dec 29 21:25:39 <trmanco>headshot	Dec 29 21:39
schestowitz	Dec 29 21:26:14 <Tallken>lol	Dec 29 21:39
schestowitz	Dec 29 21:26:33 <Tallken>trmanco, MD5 has seen at least one attack developed against it	Dec 29 21:39
schestowitz	Dec 29 21:26:45 <Tallken>it's useless, for now, but the research has started	Dec 29 21:39
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schestowitz	Dec 29 21:27:08 <Tallken>the investigators can create a file with the desired MD5sum	Dec 29 21:39
schestowitz	Dec 29 21:27:19 <Tallken>but it's a data filled with garbage	Dec 29 21:39
schestowitz	Dec 29 21:27:29 <schestowitz>Netsplit	Dec 29 21:39
schestowitz	Dec 29 21:27:47 <trmanco>but still, you haven't answered my question	Dec 29 21:39
Tallken	trmanco, so, SHA1 :p	Dec 29 21:39
PetoKraus	moin?!	Dec 29 21:40
trmanco	lol	Dec 29 21:40
MinceR	iirc even SHA-1 is vulnerable already	Dec 29 21:40
*MinceR prefers SHA-512		Dec 29 21:40
trmanco	logger_bot didn't get split	Dec 29 21:40
schestowitz	trmanco: I don't know	Dec 29 21:40
schestowitz	I think two machines fell	Dec 29 21:40
schestowitz	lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)	Dec 29 21:40
-tomaw-[Global Notice] Hi all. Our EU to US connectively dropped for a moment there generating a rather messy split. From what we can tell it seems to be resolved so sorry for the noise and thanks for using freenode!		Dec 29 21:40
schestowitz	and brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)	Dec 29 21:40
trmanco	Tallken, ok	Dec 29 21:41
schestowitz	So the split was different in different places	Dec 29 21:41
trmanco	MinceR, LOL SHA-512	Dec 29 21:41
MinceR	?	Dec 29 21:41
trmanco	how about RSA	Dec 29 21:41
MinceR	RSA isn't a hash algorithm	Dec 29 21:41
trmanco	I'm catching up	Dec 29 21:42
trmanco	crap, better do some research	Dec 29 21:42
MinceR	i'm not sure RSA would be useful in building a hash algorithm	Dec 29 21:42
MinceR	you can build one from a symmetric cipher though	Dec 29 21:42
MinceR	(DES is used in that way by the old Unix password hashing method)	Dec 29 21:42
trmanco	hmm	Dec 29 21:44
*Received a CTCP VERSION from freenode-connect		Dec 29 21:44
trmanco	MinceR, SHA-512 = SHA-2? right?	Dec 29 21:45
MinceR	it seems SHA-512 is part of the SHA-2 family	Dec 29 21:47
trmanco	yes its a variant	Dec 29 21:47
schestowitz	"Due to the deteriorating economic conditions caused by the global financial crisis all around us, the decision was made in early October to cancel the 2008 general meeting, scheduled to take place a few weeks later, and to replace it with some alternative virtual meeting that would require no travel." http://blog.irvingwb.com/blog/2008/1...	Dec 29 21:59
schestowitz	Turns out there's a Wiki page on it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glo...	Dec 29 21:59
schestowitz	"Mom Kelli Roman got an unexpected Christmas Eve surprise: Facebook yanked her privileges to use the social networking site not long after she received an e-mail warning for "misusing certain features on the site." Roman has been at the center of a growing controversy on Facebook that's been brewing since last summer (and that we discussed last fall) -- that some photos of breastfeeding are obscene." http://voices.washingtonpost.co	Dec 29 22:01
schestowitz	m/parenting/2008/12/facebook_vs_breastf eeding_phot.html?hpid=news-col-blog	Dec 29 22:01
schestowitz	http://voices.washingtonpost.com/parenting/...	Dec 29 22:02
Tallken	OLD :p	Dec 29 22:02
schestowitz	Really? Oh well..	Dec 29 22:02
schestowitz	Next thing you know they'll label it pedophilia	Dec 29 22:02
schestowitz	Because, you know, there is a baby there..	Dec 29 22:02
schestowitz	Block the WHOLE domain (Facebook), just like Wikipedia (IWF)	Dec 29 22:03
trmanco	Microsoft specs out 'pay as you go' PC scheme: http://www.computerworld.com/action/ar...	Dec 29 22:03
schestowitz	Miserable signs	Dec 29 22:03
schestowitz	They can't profit from Windows	Dec 29 22:03
schestowitz	They want to give it away... on a lease... like renting a bad, insecure car	Dec 29 22:04
trmanco	microfoot won't fix the bugs because of its stupid pyramid scheme	Dec 29 22:04
schestowitz	"On Parenting: Are Breastfeeding Pics 'Obscene'? Only to conservative white men who feel it necessary to control women."	Dec 29 22:05
schestowitz	"The photo you posted is not "obscene" by Facebook's own standards. It would be hard to post a picture of a child eating that also showed a nipple - by definition, unless the mom was showing off the other breast - which is unnecessary. Breastfeeding itself it never obscene."	Dec 29 22:05
schestowitz	trmanco: Yahoo pyramid?? WOTTT? Microsoft bought them already?	Dec 29 22:05
trmanco	no	Dec 29 22:06
trmanco	not that	Dec 29 22:06
trmanco	for example, if they fix there registry where will all the registry fixing software go? and the companies behind them	Dec 29 22:06
trmanco	:-P	Dec 29 22:06
schestowitz	Fox About To Get Paid For A Movie It Had Absolutely Nothing To Do With < http://techdirt.com/articles/2008122... >	Dec 29 22:09
schestowitz	http://princessleia.com/journal/?p=1405	Dec 29 22:15
schestowitz	Pinkux	Dec 29 22:15
*PetoKraus has quit (Remote closed the connection)		Dec 29 22:17
schestowitz	She links to an article about wealth in Linux, but it just about predates the massive FrausStreet crash: http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/c...	Dec 29 22:22
schestowitz	:-\| http://blog.andrewmin.com/2008/12/28...	Dec 29 22:40
schestowitz	No mentioning of Wine, I think	Dec 29 22:40
*PetoKraus (n=pk@host-77-247-224-25.isper.sk) has joined #boycottnovell		Dec 29 22:40
trmanco	schestowitz, nop	Dec 29 22:42
trmanco	but in overall, it is a good post	Dec 29 22:43
trmanco	IMO	Dec 29 22:43
neighborlee	wine is 'ok' but hardly a fix all	Dec 29 22:44
neighborlee	though new wine is impressive .last time I used it wine took forever to load but man its real quick now..that or I just had a badly supported game :)	Dec 29 22:44
trmanco	Wine is pretty fast on some softies	Dec 29 22:45
schestowitz	People who loves gaming often just buy consoles	Dec 29 22:45
schestowitz	The wii ain't expensive	Dec 29 22:45
schestowitz	And if people are used to paying for Windows games anyway, why not Wii games?	Dec 29 22:46
neighborlee	thats quite true now..	Dec 29 22:46
neighborlee	wiifit is also going to be a huge hit..	Dec 29 22:46
neighborlee	pc sales I think will suffer as a result	Dec 29 22:46
neighborlee	though the MOD crowd will always be loyal.	Dec 29 22:46
neighborlee	now there is wiispeak	Dec 29 22:47
neighborlee	guitar hero is real popular :)	Dec 29 22:47
MinceR	i think we need wine for the transition period	Dec 29 22:49
schestowitz	Mention Wii and see neighborlee going ballistic.	Dec 29 22:50
MinceR	:D	Dec 29 22:50
MinceR	wii need an emulator!	Dec 29 22:50
neighborlee	LOL	Dec 29 22:50
trmanco	lol	Dec 29 22:50
neighborlee	cant help it	Dec 29 22:51
schestowitz	It's a good think the substring "wii" is uncommon	Dec 29 22:51
trmanco	WNAE	Dec 29 22:51
schestowitz	*thing	Dec 29 22:51
neighborlee	wiitennis drew me in, grabbed me by my b*** and neer let go	Dec 29 22:51
schestowitz	Like aaaaardvark.	Dec 29 22:51
neighborlee	and now that I have super mairo galaxy its aLL over :)lol	Dec 29 22:51
neighborlee	invite to WoW, bbl	Dec 29 22:52
neighborlee	o_0	Dec 29 22:52
MinceR	that sponsoring idea is interesting, it might work	Dec 29 22:53
schestowitz	Oh LORDAY! Thank goodness for the Gaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!!rtner Group... http://weblog.infoworld.com/openresourc... Time to stop referencing people who sell opinions for money	Dec 29 23:04
schestowitz	These people don't /give/ opinions; they negotiate and sell them; even Joe Wilccox (former analyst) admitted this	Dec 29 23:06

IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: December 29th, 2008 - Part 2

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