IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: February 23rd, 2009 - Part 1

Dr. Roy Schestowitz

2009-02-24 03:57:01 UTC
Modified: 2009-02-24 03:57:01 UTC

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Balrog	schestowitz:	Feb 23 00:04
Balrog	http://news.slashdot.org/article.p...	Feb 23 00:04
Balrog	Microsoft is asking laid-off employees to return some money from their severance packages because they were 'overpaid'	Feb 23 00:05
schestowitz	Yes, I got 3 articles about it	Feb 23 00:06
schestowitz	Microsoft is cheap and it running low on cash, IMHO	Feb 23 00:06
schestowitz	Many articles about MS and bailout in recent days too	Feb 23 00:06
Balrog	I see.	Feb 23 00:22
schestowitz	Finnix 92.1 Review - http://ryanorser.com/?p=777 Not much of a review, is it?	Feb 23 00:26
schestowitz	http://www.johannes-eva.net/inde... "In this article I explain why I think that the rulers should be hidden by default in Openoffice.org Writer." I only recently found the need for rulers/grid in GIMP, which are there...	Feb 23 00:30
schestowitz	Songbird, music player that wants to do everything, loses CEO < http://venturebeat.com/2009/02/21/songbird-mu... >	Feb 23 00:33
MinceR	the OS that only needs a good music player? :>	Feb 23 00:36
MinceR	gn	Feb 23 00:36
schestowitz	Apple Hype Mill: http://blogs.zdnet.com/Apple/?p=3130	Feb 23 00:51
schestowitz	http://blog.flameeyes.eu/2009/02/20/wh... "For everyone who cares about users, let’s try to work all together to make PulseAudio better rather than attacking Lennart for trying to do the right thing, okay?"	Feb 23 00:55
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schestowitz	Weird comments here: http://www.tuxradar.com/linuxstarterpack	Feb 23 01:09
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balzac	00:11 < Balrog> Microsoft is asking laid-off employees to return some money from their severance	Feb 23 02:20
balzac	00:11 < Balrog> Microsoft is asking laid-off employees to return some money from their severance	Feb 23 02:20
balzac	oops	Feb 23 02:20
balzac	that is quite an embarrassment for Microsoft to be stooping to shake-down laid-off employees in the hopes of saving a few coins	Feb 23 02:22
balzac	don't be "white-man givers"	Feb 23 02:22
balzac	jk	Feb 23 02:22
schestowitz	Poor Microsoft	Feb 23 02:22
schestowitz	They need $$ (nickels maybe)	Feb 23 02:22
balzac	"we're sorry, but we had an accounting error regarding the size of your severance package. We're going to need some of that back.	Feb 23 02:23
balzac	If the money had already been transferred, I'd offer Microsoft's account a two-word answer.	Feb 23 02:23
schestowitz	I can't wait till the day when, just like SCO, they'll make some surprise chapter-you-know-what. A lot of companies and CEOs look at each other like in a poker game waiting to see who goes down next and who stays off the sharks at the end. Judging by the terrain, Microsoft will be in for a very rough time.	Feb 23 02:24
balzac	that would be heavenly	Feb 23 02:24
balzac	It reminds me of the US government asking soldiers to pay back some of their wages because of an accounting error	Feb 23 02:25
balzac	iraq war veterans, asked to pay back the government under Bush	Feb 23 02:25
balzac	Bush is worse than Microsoft	Feb 23 02:25
balzac	Bush would ask the soldiers for a bit more sacrifice - would you do Uncle Sam a favor and sell your mechanical leg, replace it with a wooden peg-leg so we could save a few thousand dollars?	Feb 23 02:26
balzac	Bush loved to say "sacrifice".	Feb 23 02:29
schestowitz	Heh.	Feb 23 02:29
schestowitz	Bush is religious	Feb 23 02:30
schestowitz	I'm sure he believes in sacrifice	Feb 23 02:30
schestowitz	He sends kids to die abroad... to return to Wichita in coffins.	Feb 23 02:30
balzac	anyone excempt himself	Feb 23 02:30
schestowitz	Like Bill O'Reilly.	Feb 23 02:30
balzac	he believes himself connected to god through fate, so his whims and comfort are sacrosanct, while everyone can die like a character in a movie.	Feb 23 02:31
schestowitz	Heroes promoting democracy{tm}	Feb 23 02:31
schestowitz	From the armchair.	Feb 23 02:31
balzac	I can't believe the New York Times compared Bernie Madoff to Ted Bundy and never compared Bush to a serial killer	Feb 23 02:31
schestowitz	"God Mess America"	Feb 23 02:32
schestowitz	Ted Bundy?	Feb 23 02:32
schestowitz	What was his other name?	Feb 23 02:32
schestowitz	I forgot..	Feb 23 02:32
balzac	Bush had 162 people executed as governor of Texas	Feb 23 02:32
schestowitz	He strangled many women	Feb 23 02:32
balzac	Bush loved having people killed	Feb 23 02:32
schestowitz	Bush -- if the Nuremberg trial rules were applied...	Feb 23 02:33
balzac	would hang	Feb 23 02:33
schestowitz	At best	Feb 23 02:33
balzac	Well, Muntadar al Zaidi hurled a shoe at Bush	Feb 23 02:34
balzac	I think it's a signal that Bush is in for a restless future	Feb 23 02:34
balzac	things are going very sour with the Republicans despite Obama's best efforts to extend his hand diplomatically	Feb 23 02:35
balzac	First the NY Post cartoon which compares a crazed chimpanzee which had just been shot dead for biting a woman's face to President Obama	Feb 23 02:36
balzac	the NAACP is calling for the firing of the cartoonist and the editor. I agree emphatically that both should be fired.	Feb 23 02:36
balzac	Then, John Gibson from Fox compared Eric Holder, Attourney General to another primate - an esacaped monkey in a zoo	Feb 23 02:37
schestowitz	Was there a cause for the cartoon (as in something deeper)?	Feb 23 02:37
balzac	Rupert Murdoch owns New York Post and Fox Noise	Feb 23 02:37
schestowitz	Maybe it was accidental... better to check... ask question before shooting.	Feb 23 02:37
schestowitz	LOL "Fox Noise"... new to me...	Feb 23 02:38
balzac	there's no possible excuse or plausible deniability	Feb 23 02:38
balzac	the cartoon leaves no room for misinterpretation	Feb 23 02:38
schestowitz	OBAMAA will get a hard time for sure	Feb 23 02:38
schestowitz	It's a racist nation in some parts	Feb 23 02:38
schestowitz	Being half black he'll get a lot of the blame even harder for being 'different' to them.	Feb 23 02:39
balzac	If Bush is to be prosecuted, Eric Holder is the man at the helm at the Department of Justice	Feb 23 02:39
balzac	he's also the guy who will either apply the law to microsoft, or let them slide.	Feb 23 02:40
schestowitz	They'll cover each others' back	Feb 23 02:40
schestowitz	RMS wrote about it the other day	Feb 23 02:40
schestowitz	he stated, linking to some article, that OBAMAA won't prosecute Bush	Feb 23 02:40
balzac	well, these guys like Rupert Murdoch are sicking their attack-pigs on Obama	Feb 23 02:40
schestowitz	Maybe	Feb 23 02:41
schestowitz	Can he prosecure Rupert instead	Feb 23 02:41
balzac	if it gets bad enough, how can the Repuglicans be protected from themselves?	Feb 23 02:41
schestowitz	they can put him in a parents' home	Feb 23 02:41
balzac	they're treating Obama like they still can't believe he's really president	Feb 23 02:41
schestowitz	Remember 2000 elections?	Feb 23 02:41
schestowitz	Friends of Gerorge announced prematutely a win	Feb 23 02:42
balzac	I bet Rupert Murdoch's trophy wife and son are both praying daily for his heart to give out.	Feb 23 02:42
schestowitz	But he did not win	Feb 23 02:42
schestowitz	So then the theme changed to "can Gore somehow reverse it?"	Feb 23 02:42
schestowitz	It would make Gore seem like he's the cheater this way	Feb 23 02:42
schestowitz	All of this was intentional	Feb 23 02:42
balzac	Yeah, you reminded me of something which sits at the back of my mind, a nearly forgotten crime of epic proportions.	Feb 23 02:42
balzac	The theft of the election	Feb 23 02:42
schestowitz	And the ballot-counting cancellation too	Feb 23 02:42
schestowitz	Perople in the US forgot and ignored how the elections got hijacked	Feb 23 02:43
balzac	Bush is a traitor to America	Feb 23 02:43
schestowitz	It's not "theft" if they /almost got the required votes :-)	Feb 23 02:43
schestowitz	Nice guys finish last	Feb 23 02:43
balzac	Bush worked hard to destroy the United States of America, in the tradition of Jefferson Davis.	Feb 23 02:44
balzac	Obama is working hard to keep it together, like President Lincoln.	Feb 23 02:44
schestowitz	Not destory	Feb 23 02:45
schestowitz	He didn't destory it	Feb 23 02:45
balzac	well, once in a rare while, we see someone come along who appears to have only good intentions.	Feb 23 02:45
schestowitz	Not to those "who count"	Feb 23 02:45
schestowitz	The issue is, who did he represent??	Feb 23 02:45
schestowitz	The voters? The faction of the United States part?	Feb 23 02:45
schestowitz	*party	Feb 23 02:45
balzac	well, Republicans are pretty explicit in their goals of ending the USA.	Feb 23 02:45
schestowitz	Not ending	Feb 23 02:45
schestowitz	Mooching	Feb 23 02:45
balzac	Bush methodically broke down the US military	Feb 23 02:45
schestowitz	Reputation ruined too	Feb 23 02:46
schestowitz	The US military is perceived in Europe as dangerous and trigger happy	Feb 23 02:46
balzac	no, ending the oldest democracy is most definitely on the agenda of some of these restless elite	Feb 23 02:46
schestowitz	That doesn't help	Feb 23 02:46
schestowitz	It endorses 'terrorism' in some people's minds	Feb 23 02:46
schestowitz	When the white knights start raping women, they cease to be white knights	Feb 23 02:46
balzac	Our military is a lot better than Bush's friends killer mercenaries	Feb 23 02:47
balzac	at least our military has the UCMJ for some semblance of accountability	Feb 23 02:48
balzac	the mercenaries answer to no one	Feb 23 02:48
schestowitz	Militaries too can be hijacked	Feb 23 02:48
schestowitz	The UK suffered a similar fate	Feb 23 02:48
schestowitz	So has Israel	Feb 23 02:48
balzac	Bush was literally trying to subjugate and break the effectiveness of our military in order to replace them with private forces	Feb 23 02:48
schestowitz	When fascists run countries, they give a bad name to those who are part of 'The Machine'	Feb 23 02:48
balzac	private forces who were not even Americans	Feb 23 02:49
balzac	As a symbol of the treatment of the US military by Bush and his Repuglican supporters, Pat Tillman is quite relevant	Feb 23 02:50
balzac	Pat Tillman volunteers for military duty after 9/11, leaving behind a great sports career at his prime	Feb 23 02:50
balzac	millions of income - he walked away from it to find himself in afghanistan	Feb 23 02:50
balzac	what does he get for it? a three round burst from an m16 in the forhead at close range	Feb 23 02:51
balzac	his body armor is burned	Feb 23 02:51
balzac	the investigation is surpressed	Feb 23 02:51
balzac	the shooter had to be quite close because a three-round burst from an m16 spreads over distance	Feb 23 02:51
schestowitz	m16?	Feb 23 02:52
balzac	and then we find that Pat Tillman was about to come out against Bush's phony "war on terror"	Feb 23 02:52
schestowitz	Was he shot with an American Colt rifle?	Feb 23 02:52
balzac	wait, lemme search - I was telling the story from memory	Feb 23 02:52
balzac	I beleive it's the m16 because it's standard and the three round burst is a setting on it	Feb 23 02:53
schestowitz	'Friendly' fire (Orwellian term)?	Feb 23 02:53
balzac	Pat Tillman was planning to meet Noam Chomsky when he got home	Feb 23 02:53
balzac	he made it home in a coffin	Feb 23 02:53
schestowitz	Where did the Taliban get weapons for in the first place?	Feb 23 02:53
schestowitz	US or Russia?	Feb 23 02:53
schestowitz	Kalashnikov would seem more likely for them after the war with USSR	Feb 23 02:54
schestowitz	America (well, USA) gave a lot of weapons to Iraq too	Feb 23 02:54
balzac	I think the US armed the militant islamic radicals in order to hurt the Soviet occupation of afghanistan	Feb 23 02:54
schestowitz	So when they are shot by Iraqis, US soldiers must remember where armament comes from	Feb 23 02:55
balzac	Well, Pat Tillman wasn't shot by any Mujahideen	Feb 23 02:55
schestowitz	balzac: That's how I remember it. They fueled that war to weaken Russia	Feb 23 02:55
schestowitz	They also try to bang China against Russia now (or vice versa)	Feb 23 02:56
schestowitz	Keeping the nuke in the east	Feb 23 02:56
balzac	I think Pat Tillman's journal may have been lost or destroyed as well.	Feb 23 02:57
balzac	The San Francisco Chronicle reports:	Feb 23 02:58
balzac	He was an avid reader whose interests ranged from history books … to works of leftist Noam Chomsky, a favorite author."	Feb 23 02:58
balzac	Apparently a meeting between Tillman and Chomsky was planned for after Pat's return to the U.S., but he never returned. Instead, he was killed – under circumstances that Pat's mother, Mary, has always characterized as "murky," at best, and that seem, to my eye, at least, suspicious at worst.	Feb 23 02:58
schestowitz	Like Dr. Kelly..?	Feb 23 02:59
balzac	I really want to see that investigation carried forth without obstruction	Feb 23 02:59
balzac	that name sounds familiar	Feb 23 02:59
balzac	the weapons inspector?	Feb 23 02:59
schestowitz	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Kelly...	Feb 23 02:59
balzac	indeed	Feb 23 02:59
balzac	or the enron witness	Feb 23 02:59
schestowitz	Cut his wrists to death...?	Feb 23 02:59
schestowitz	I don't know...	Feb 23 02:59
balzac	many pivotal figures died quite conveniently during Bush's years	Feb 23 02:59
schestowitz	Who else?	Feb 23 03:01
balzac	there are more than 1,000,000 ghosts houling for Bush	Feb 23 03:02
balzac	well, a guy involved in interrogations was having an internal moral struggle, and changing his mind against Bush policy on torture	Feb 23 03:03
balzac	he was found conveniently dead, allegedly a suicide	Feb 23 03:03
balzac	there was a young woman who had told relatives she was fearful for her life one time back from Iraq on leave	Feb 23 03:03
balzac	she was quite afraid, later found dead, murdered within a US military base in Iraq	Feb 23 03:04
balzac	she had information on the corrupt accounting of US funds in Iraq	Feb 23 03:04
balzac	Ken Lay also died, along with a pivotal witness in the Enron case who was scheduled to testify	Feb 23 03:05
balzac	it's just such a long list, it wouldn't be a short piece of work to compile it and add footnotes and references	Feb 23 03:06
schestowitz	It's wothwhile	Feb 23 03:06
schestowitz	I bet someone has it already	Feb 23 03:06
schestowitz	So if you google all those named together you might find one/it	Feb 23 03:06
balzac	The same guy who successfully prosecuted Charles Manson makes the case for the trial of George Bush for murder	Feb 23 03:07
balzac	we'll see	Feb 23 03:07
balzac	often when I would make a thorough list of relevant facts based on memory, I would find it was the most exhaustive list on the subject available online.	Feb 23 03:08
balzac	I'll show you an example	Feb 23 03:08
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schestowitz	balzac: why wait until he finished his presidency?	Feb 23 03:09
balzac	http://ia300217.us.archive.org/0/item...	Feb 23 03:09
schestowitz	That's why I don't get	Feb 23 03:09
balzac	I never waited	Feb 23 03:09
schestowitz	I wrote BN sometimes in order to organise thoughts and notes, mostly refs	Feb 23 03:10
balzac	I supported Kucinich and wrote so many times in favor of impeachment over the years	Feb 23 03:10
balzac	especially from 2005 on	Feb 23 03:10
schestowitz	If others find them handy too, the great	Feb 23 03:10
balzac	Check out that link I pasted please	Feb 23 03:10
schestowitz	I can search for them using Google now	Feb 23 03:10
schestowitz	So I find my old thoughts quickly	Feb 23 03:10
balzac	I wrote about the Zarqawi psyops campaign a day before the story officially broke on Washington Post.com	Feb 23 03:11
schestowitz	balzac: I'm not familiar enough with these connections	Feb 23 03:11
balzac	well, it's missing the first diagram which included all the dubious links	Feb 23 03:12
balzac	archive.org thought these two diagrams were the same and deleted the first version	Feb 23 03:12
balzac	I used rational criteria for color-coding the intelligence events according to the criteria	Feb 23 03:12
balzac	remember all those alleged Bin Laden audio tapes	Feb 23 03:13
balzac	?	Feb 23 03:13
balzac	Bin Laden endorses John Kerry	Feb 23 03:14
balzac	yeah, right.	Feb 23 03:14
balzac	That audio came out of the Bush-lead psyops team	Feb 23 03:14
balzac	Those audio tapes were quite silly and obviously fake	Feb 23 03:15
balzac	a long series of them	Feb 23 03:15
schestowitz	Hmmmm...	Feb 23 03:15
schestowitz	I don't know these stories too well at all.	Feb 23 03:15
balzac	they'd just show a picture of Bin Laden and the recorded audio would be played, presented as authentic by CNN and others	Feb 23 03:15
schestowitz	Talking points :-)	Feb 23 03:15
schestowitz	Does he say he likes Budweiser?	Feb 23 03:16
schestowitz	That would be worth a bundle $$	Feb 23 03:16
balzac	I just can't believe how outlandish and silly these "al qaeda" audio releases became	Feb 23 03:16
schestowitz	Osama lip-synching...	Feb 23 03:16
balzac	zarqawi was supposed to have been the leader of "al qaeda in iraq"	Feb 23 03:17
balzac	a non-existent entity, for the the most part	Feb 23 03:17
balzac	I said, he's probably frozen in a meat locker	Feb 23 03:18
balzac	they wouldn't be feeding zarqawi all these fake lines if he were alive, investing so much in building up his ridiculous reputation	Feb 23 03:18
balzac	they picked real terrorists such as Bin Laden and Zarqawi and then embellished quite a bit to feed the media a gripping narrative to keep Bush in control.	Feb 23 03:19
schestowitz	Maybe. I don't know this stuff.	Feb 23 03:20
balzac	Well, these investigations have lost their direction because they were hijacked by conspiracy theorists who were not responsible.	Feb 23 03:22
balzac	"bombs in the towers" conspiracy theories, anti-semitic conspiracy theories derailed the whole grassroots effort to know what happened on 9/11	Feb 23 03:22
schestowitz	Some people give it a bad name	Feb 23 03:23
balzac	meanwhile, Bush and Cheney refused to go under oath and 28 pages of the 9/11 Commission Report were redacted on behalf of Saudi Arabia	Feb 23 03:23
schestowitz	Redacted?	Feb 23 03:23
balzac	well, not redacted, but never allowed to be published	Feb 23 03:24
schestowitz	Well, people like Alex Jones and David Ike cause trouble for analyses	Feb 23 03:24
balzac	I have to look up redacted	Feb 23 03:24
schestowitz	Bad to make them speakers for skeptics of the government	Feb 23 03:24
balzac	they're just jokers who make a career off of sensationalizing it	Feb 23 03:24
schestowitz	Wait, I'll show you something..	Feb 23 03:24
schestowitz	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0APTn...	Feb 23 03:25
schestowitz	He went bonkers	Feb 23 03:25
balzac	It's tough to choose the right words on 9/11	Feb 23 03:26
balzac	'inside job' is a fair description in some ways, but some people's minds shut down when that phrase is spoken	Feb 23 03:27
balzac	it was an "inside job" when JFK, RFK and MLK were shot	Feb 23 03:28
balzac	it was an inside job when President Carter was politically humiliated by a hostage crisis in which Republicans cooperated with Iranian hostage takers	Feb 23 03:28
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schestowitz	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_F...	Feb 23 03:29
schestowitz	I didn't know he too was shot	Feb 23 03:29
balzac	The Repugs have established a track record of taking American National security very lightly, in fact subverting it	Feb 23 03:29
balzac	The 9/11 attacks were perpetrated by islamic radicals from saudi arabia	Feb 23 03:32
balzac	that's why 28 pages were not published on behalf of saudi arabia	Feb 23 03:32
balzac	mostly saudi arabia	Feb 23 03:32
balzac	but Bush's people surpressed our national security just prior to the attacks	Feb 23 03:33
balzac	they really didn't give a fig	Feb 23 03:33
balzac	Clinton shot 60 cruise missiles into Pakistan to kill Osama Bin Laden	Feb 23 03:33
balzac	Bush didn't even care enough to be bothered by the concerns of domestic terror attacks	Feb 23 03:34
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balzac	either that, or like others of his ideology, he thought his party could benefit from the aftermath of such an attack	Feb 23 03:34
schestowitz	60 missile?	Feb 23 03:34
balzac	so they left our guard down	Feb 23 03:34
schestowitz	*lies	Feb 23 03:34
schestowitz	Just clustering them around in random to assassinate one person who used to work with the CIA?	Feb 23 03:35
balzac	there was one particular attack in which lots of missiles were fired from a ship	Feb 23 03:35
balzac	well, this was reported when it was done, not after	Feb 23 03:36
balzac	the USS cole had been hit, and OBL was taking credit	Feb 23 03:37
balzac	also the bombing of the US embassy in Tanzania	Feb 23 03:37
balzac	not to mention WTC attack I in 1993, which has slipped the minds of many	Feb 23 03:38
balzac	Osama had let his beard down long before 9/11	Feb 23 03:39
balzac	Bush just waited for Osama to do what he promised to do.	Feb 23 03:39
balzac	roy, did you know Osama Bin Laden's father, Mohammad Bin Laden was in the Carlylse Group, a personal contact of George Bush Sr.?	Feb 23 03:39
balzac	or that Neil Bush was a personal friend of John Hinkley's brother, the assassin who tried to kill Ronald Reagan?	Feb 23 03:40
schestowitz	Wait..	Feb 23 03:41
balzac	I just can't be convinced that Bush ever cared about national security	Feb 23 03:41
schestowitz	Carlyle Group?	Feb 23 03:41
balzac	yes	Feb 23 03:41
schestowitz	You know we wrote about them in BN..	Feb 23 03:41
schestowitz	For other reasons	Feb 23 03:41
schestowitz	So I did some sniffing around them too	Feb 23 03:41
schestowitz	SCO connections	Feb 23 03:41
balzac	hmm	Feb 23 03:42
schestowitz	There's also the Arab investors in Norris	Feb 23 03:42
schestowitz	Friends of Gates	Feb 23 03:42
schestowitz	Norris is right in there.	Feb 23 03:42
balzac	interesting	Feb 23 03:43
balzac	The financial elite take care of each other	Feb 23 03:44
balzac	well, I'll wrap it up succintly	Feb 23 03:44
balzac	Bush is "White Al Qaeda"	Feb 23 03:44
schestowitz	Whatever.	Feb 23 03:45
schestowitz	I don't want to make such statements	Feb 23 03:45
schestowitz	But it's OK for others to say such stuff	Feb 23 03:45
balzac	no pressure	Feb 23 03:45
schestowitz	Likewise in BN	Feb 23 03:45
schestowitz	I could go on and do with Justice Jackson Penfield did.... and like many just call Microsoft "Criminals"... but then you lose voice legitimacy.	Feb 23 03:46
schestowitz	For saying truths	Feb 23 03:46
balzac	I'm really glad you're emphasizing teh law-breaking by Microsoft	Feb 23 03:46
schestowitz	Like you can get smeared for saying things about the bible, religions, leaders, or the ALL MIGHTY GATES FOUNDATION	Feb 23 03:46
balzac	it's easy to forget	Feb 23 03:46
schestowitz	Who DARE say that the GATES FOUNDATION (oh! Mighty goodness!) is more than some charity	Feb 23 03:47
schestowitz	BTW, google BN for 'carlyle' to find interesting things.	Feb 23 03:47
schestowitz	I don't remember exactly the things that I found but I wrote them down	Feb 23 03:47
schestowitz	Somertimes, like in Groklaw, you need to just pass facts without judgment	Feb 23 03:48
balzac	well, it's classical philanthropy - done more in the service of the ego and social stature than for the stated purpose	Feb 23 03:48
schestowitz	Then you see people linking to it with phrases like "those criminals" or "mafia"	Feb 23 03:48
schestowitz	So it doesn't matter what words you use... just what you present	Feb 23 03:48
schestowitz	Intellectual can provoke rage without any strong words	Feb 23 03:48
schestowitz	Just annoying phrases like "you 'little people'"	Feb 23 03:49
balzac	It's not right to denigrate the mafia too much	Feb 23 03:49
schestowitz	Or "them the 'big brains'"	Feb 23 03:49
balzac	well, factual support is very important	Feb 23 03:50
balzac	but I like Michael Moore's style because he's not afraid to lend his own editorial take on the facts as well.	Feb 23 03:51
balzac	But, it's equally important to emphatically challenge the identity which the opposition is project as a strategic matter	Feb 23 03:51
balzac	Bill Gates is really not the Santa Clause of the world	Feb 23 03:52
balzac	Microsoft is a mind-prison, the bars are made of proprietary software.	Feb 23 03:52
balzac	He's not Dr. Evil, he's not the second coming	Feb 23 03:52
balzac	but he may well be a man who has deliberately broken the law on behalf of his company a number of times	Feb 23 03:53
balzac	but these are "soft crimes"	Feb 23 03:53
balzac	I'm not convinced the M$ crimes justify any jail sentence, or will result in such	Feb 23 03:54
balzac	I've been defending "soft crime" perpetrators such as Madoff, Blagejevich and others because their crime pale in comparison to the Bush Administrations assault on America and the world.	Feb 23 03:55
balzac	How can Bill Gates possibly be held to the letter of the law, while Bush still walks free?	Feb 23 03:56
balzac	how can anyone?	Feb 23 03:56
balzac	Most people think it's a remote possibility for Bush to go to jail.	Feb 23 03:56
balzac	I think it could happen some years down the road.	Feb 23 03:56
balzac	I doubt any of the three top executives of Microsoft have any likelyhood at all of being convicted of crimes resulting in jail sentences.	Feb 23 03:57
balzac	But I commend you for making the case.	Feb 23 03:57
balzac	Someone ought to do it, just to remind people that we have laws for a reason.	Feb 23 03:57
balzac	and to call attention to the fact that microsoft has been running rough-shod over the laws of our country for years	Feb 23 03:58
schestowitz	balzac: jusdge jackson disgaree	Feb 23 03:58
schestowitz	he promposed criminal prosecution against Microsoft ececs	Feb 23 03:58
schestowitz	They could face prison	Feb 23 03:58
schestowitz	white-collar crime costs the public a lot more than shoplifting or smoking of pot	Feb 23 03:58
balzac	he's the guy whose sentence was to break up ms?	Feb 23 03:59
schestowitz	But those people are good at coirrupting (paying off) justice figures	Feb 23 03:59
balzac	yeah	Feb 23 03:59
schestowitz	Corruptible officials make all the differencee	Feb 23 03:59
balzac	well, society is a social network which spans both law-breakers and law-enforcement	Feb 23 03:59
balzac	there are intermediaries who prevent justice from being applied uniformly	Feb 23 04:00
schestowitz	balzac: yes, then Bush came	Feb 23 04:00
schestowitz	Bush changed the rule for Microsoft	Feb 23 04:00
schestowitz	Maybe they paid a lot for his running campaign	Feb 23 04:00
schestowitz	There's the McCain-MS link too	Feb 23 04:00
balzac	I'm not a critic of corruption in general in society, it's not going to change.	Feb 23 04:00
schestowitz	It can be reduced	Feb 23 04:01
schestowitz	With the internet, criminals can be exposed more easily	Feb 23 04:01
balzac	yes	Feb 23 04:01
schestowitz	I still need to proceed more Comes materia	Feb 23 04:01
schestowitz	*ial	Feb 23 04:01
balzac	good point	Feb 23 04:01
balzac	the wheels of justice turn slowly...	Feb 23 04:02
balzac	but they grind exceedingly fine	Feb 23 04:02
balzac	I just have a feeling that Bill Gates has invested so much in his reputation in society, that he will never be held to account	Feb 23 04:02
balzac	and why should he be, when we have bigger fish to fry	Feb 23 04:03
balzac	justice can never be applied as uniformly or as intended when laws were originally drafted	Feb 23 04:03
schestowitz	Yes, you put it rightly.	Feb 23 04:03
schestowitz	Gates is an example of prior /bigger' criminals who rewrote their bios	Feb 23 04:04
schestowitz	he also rewrites MS history in the MSBBC, e.g. when he retired	Feb 23 04:04
schestowitz	This pissed his victums off.. they blogged about it	Feb 23 04:04
balzac	but I don't criticize you for making the case for how Gates may have run afoul of the law	Feb 23 04:04
schestowitz	They noticed BN	Feb 23 04:04
balzac	what if MS collapsed like a ponzi scheme?	Feb 23 04:04
schestowitz	Convicted to prison or not, people should know the truth	Feb 23 04:04
balzac	what if the psychology of Microsoft inverted itself	Feb 23 04:05
schestowitz	If people at least recognise Gates for the crimes he comitted, then he will at least be prosecuted in the minds of people.	Feb 23 04:05
schestowitz	*committed	Feb 23 04:05
balzac	Madoff was the hero, then the goat	Feb 23 04:05
balzac	it happened very quickly	Feb 23 04:05
schestowitz	balzac: hold ob	Feb 23 04:05
schestowitz	Microsoft may be a Ponzi scheme	Feb 23 04:05
balzac	yes	Feb 23 04:05
schestowitz	I heard from MSFT investors yeterday and they compare ballmer and gates to madoff	Feb 23 04:06
balzac	i'm starting to realize that based on the links you've shared	Feb 23 04:06
schestowitz	They will unveil details in an interview soon.	Feb 23 04:06
schestowitz	balzac: look at archives under "finance"	Feb 23 04:06
balzac	Roy, if enough people get burned by a collapse in the value of MS stock, they	Feb 23 04:06
schestowitz	I have journalists who agree with me	Feb 23 04:06
oiaohm	How MS formed is nothing new.	Feb 23 04:06
balzac	they'll cry out for heads to roll	Feb 23 04:06
schestowitz	But they talk privately.. they are afraid to publish this	Feb 23 04:06
schestowitz	Parish tried and got smeared for it	Feb 23 04:06
oiaohm	History has done the same things many times over.	Feb 23 04:06
balzac	Roy, this is some of the juiciest stuff published on your site	Feb 23 04:07
balzac	the financial troubles of MS	Feb 23 04:07
balzac	and shady accounting	Feb 23 04:07
oiaohm	Financial troubles are cased.	Feb 23 04:08
balzac	a half-legitimate business can quickly turn into a full on fraud	Feb 23 04:08
oiaohm	Simple point MS under predicted how much force Linux could apply to the market.	Feb 23 04:08
oiaohm	Force being applied is not even to its max yet.	Feb 23 04:08
balzac	MS may be a half-way legitimate business now, but if they don't recognize their downward trajectory, and begin to settle accounts...	Feb 23 04:09
balzac	oiaohm: yes	Feb 23 04:09
oiaohm	Nothing to do with legitmate	Feb 23 04:09
balzac	but it's coming to a head with Firefox taking IE market-share at such a brisk pace	Feb 23 04:09
oiaohm	Sun selling solarias in the super computer was legitimate	Feb 23 04:09
balzac	how long until the tipping point is reached?	Feb 23 04:09
oiaohm	yet they lost the market.	Feb 23 04:10
oiaohm	Cost vs Quality. When someone can provide something good enough you are basically dead in the water.	Feb 23 04:10
balzac	well, these MS executives and share-holders should be thinking very defensively now	Feb 23 04:10
balzac	there's building paranoia and dwindling capital	Feb 23 04:10
oiaohm	Microsoft basically has to restructure or die.	Feb 23 04:10
balzac	yep	Feb 23 04:11
oiaohm	Its like scribes vs printing presses	Feb 23 04:11
oiaohm	And I could pull out many historic examples.	Feb 23 04:11
oiaohm	These events have happened so many times over its not funny.	Feb 23 04:11
balzac	If MS is too late to admit their financial ruin and settle accounts, it will be said that they covered up their problems, tricked share holders, benefitted from inside knowledge, and committed fraud.	Feb 23 04:12
balzac	they could be on the hook like Bernie Madoff, if the discrepency between expected value and actual value is too great.	Feb 23 04:13
oiaohm	Bill gates set up everything to stop this day coming.	Feb 23 04:13
oiaohm	Now that is here stoping it could be impossable.	Feb 23 04:13
balzac	roy, so the MS investors who contacted you compared Gates to Madoff?	Feb 23 04:15
balzac	oiaohm: their accounting discrepancies could be very bad and getting worse quickly	Feb 23 04:15
balzac	but they may be hiding it in hopes of a recovery	Feb 23 04:15
balzac	I'm hoping for a cataclysmic collapse of value of MS stock, so that I may profit from the F&OSS boom	Feb 23 04:16
balzac	(and for the sake of freedom, obviously)	Feb 23 04:17
balzac	Microsoft has failed to adapt to the internet	Feb 23 04:24
balzac	the price of failure will be more than they realize	Feb 23 04:24
balzac	The government of Iceland was recently caught flat-footed by financial ruin	Feb 23 04:25
balzac	and revealed to be quite corrupt	Feb 23 04:26
schestowitz	balzac: "Roy, this is some of the juiciest stuff published on your site"	Feb 23 04:30
schestowitz	Thanks, I'll keep an eye on it	Feb 23 04:30
schestowitz	I heard another theory from a friend today	Feb 23 04:30
schestowitz	He talked about how they changed the accounting methods over time	Feb 23 04:31
schestowitz	They inflated the economy based on illusions	Feb 23 04:31
schestowitz	So all that "Microsoft revenue rises every quarter" is likely to be utter BS	Feb 23 04:31
schestowitz	As Parish showed	Feb 23 04:31
schestowitz	They can fake it with the support of it being "the norm"	Feb 23 04:31
schestowitz	So they are a pyramid part of a much bigger one	Feb 23 04:31
schestowitz	Which is a global collapse that's unprecedented	Feb 23 04:32
balzac	sounds quite plausible	Feb 23 04:32
schestowitz	They got busted before	Feb 23 04:32
schestowitz	Whistleblower, then SEC investigation	Feb 23 04:33
schestowitz	Novell's a similar story	Feb 23 04:33
balzac	Madoff's interactions with the SEC, Greenspan's years of watering down accountability and delaying the inevitable accounting...	Feb 23 04:33
schestowitz	I reckon Novell's frauds that I wrote about are still very real	Feb 23 04:33
schestowitz	So Novell was nearly bankrupt before the deal with MS	Feb 23 04:33
balzac	wow	Feb 23 04:33
schestowitz	They sold their soul, almost literally.	Feb 23 04:33
schestowitz	Commercial life or death	Feb 23 04:33
balzac	and George Soros has said that the financial collapse could be "bottomless".	Feb 23 04:34
schestowitz	<balzac> roy, so the MS investors who contacted you compared Gates to Madoff?	Feb 23 04:34
schestowitz	balzac: they conteacted me	Feb 23 04:34
schestowitz	One of them did	Feb 23 04:34
balzac	awesome	Feb 23 04:34
schestowitz	I reckon they lost over half their money on Ballmer's gang	Feb 23 04:34
balzac	probably on behalf of a like-minded group of them	Feb 23 04:35
schestowitz	And some people got rich at their expense over the years	Feb 23 04:35
schestowitz	Microsoft has Motley Fool	Feb 23 04:35
schestowitz	And all sorts of other 'bought' publications to kite their stock	Feb 23 04:35
balzac	yeah	Feb 23 04:35
schestowitz	But they could be like SCO	Feb 23 04:35
balzac	right	Feb 23 04:35
balzac	these are unseemly relationships	Feb 23 04:35
schestowitz	They also have attack dogs against turth speakers	Feb 23 04:35
schestowitz	I used to get that in USENET	Feb 23 04:35
schestowitz	Also when exposing Gate Foundary[sic]	Feb 23 04:36
schestowitz	When I produced evidencer they stopped complaining	Feb 23 04:36
balzac	they may have thought this was just friendly press back when they started throwing treats to the pundits for favorable press - after a collapse of stock value, this could be described as conspiracy	Feb 23 04:36
schestowitz	it's hard to rebut when all I do is state verifiable fact and I build a case with many refrences, over time. Then I get feedback in BN/mail/USENET/fellow bloggers	Feb 23 04:37
schestowitz	So it's like teamwork	Feb 23 04:37
balzac	payola for favorable press...	Feb 23 04:37
balzac	yeah	Feb 23 04:37
schestowitz	Microsoft is said to have lost $18bn in 2998	Feb 23 04:37
schestowitz	1998	Feb 23 04:37
schestowitz	In one year	Feb 23 04:37
schestowitz	But they played accounting tricks, says Smithers	Feb 23 04:37
schestowitz	People ignored it at the time	Feb 23 04:37
schestowitz	Gates had stepped down	Feb 23 04:38
schestowitz	Ballmer put in charge while Gates prepares to reshape image.. hand-washing./	Feb 23 04:38
balzac	wow, things may actually change in a big way	Feb 23 04:38
schestowitz	His dad is a HUGE part of Microsoft	Feb 23 04:38
schestowitz	But his dad you will hardly ever see in the media	Feb 23 04:38
schestowitz	He's like that relative of Freud	Feb 23 04:38
oiaohm	MS depended on the fact it could force upgrades.	Feb 23 04:38
balzac	after all these years of wondering, when could GNU and Linux get a chance	Feb 23 04:38
schestowitz	Working behind the scenes in obscurity	Feb 23 04:39
oiaohm	That has kinda shattered.	Feb 23 04:39
balzac	hmm	Feb 23 04:39
schestowitz	oiaohm: not only that	Feb 23 04:39
schestowitz	They depend on margins	Feb 23 04:39
oiaohm	Now with Linux putting pressure on cutting proffeit percent.	Feb 23 04:39
balzac	yeah, well people aren't even upgrading their hardware very much	Feb 23 04:39
schestowitz	They have just two reallyt profitable products	Feb 23 04:39
schestowitz	1) Office 2) Windows	Feb 23 04:39
balzac	computing power got so far ahead of the office applications and operating system	Feb 23 04:39
oiaohm	Basically Open source has 1 2 punched MS.	Feb 23 04:39
schestowitz	This is confirmed by MS watch (a guy who worked for MS pretty much)	Feb 23 04:39
balzac	now only games and ultra-rich media can sell new computers	Feb 23 04:39
schestowitz	Windows includes server	Feb 23 04:39
schestowitz	That's where margins are better	Feb 23 04:40
schestowitz	But Linux is killing those too	Feb 23 04:40
schestowitz	Now on sub-notebooks	Feb 23 04:40
schestowitz	And education contracts... EDGI and all	Feb 23 04:40
oiaohm	If sub-notebooks turn into notebooks then MS is really in trouble.	Feb 23 04:40
oiaohm	Desktop market is reducing anyhow.	Feb 23 04:40
schestowitz	Why do you think Mirosoft become top patent aplicant?	Feb 23 04:40
balzac	The Linux Kernel's most important aspect is the hardware-compatibility.	Feb 23 04:40
schestowitz	In the past they hardly talked about it	Feb 23 04:41
schestowitz	Now it's just IP this , IP that	Feb 23 04:41
oiaohm	Ms is trying to restruct like sun did.	Feb 23 04:41
schestowitz	Because they failed to kill Google	Feb 23 04:41
oiaohm	Most of sun income these days comes from patents.	Feb 23 04:41
schestowitz	Their on-line office suite is well behind	Feb 23 04:41
oiaohm	Not from they selling stuff.	Feb 23 04:41
schestowitz	Feature-wise even..	Feb 23 04:41
schestowitz	And they couldn't sell hardware either	Feb 23 04:41
schestowitz	They tried	Feb 23 04:41
schestowitz	After losing billion in late 90s	Feb 23 04:41
schestowitz	They tried XBox	Feb 23 04:41
schestowitz	Failed badly	Feb 23 04:41
balzac	I don't carry my full-sized notebook around	Feb 23 04:41
oiaohm	Google has a track record of selling hardware	Feb 23 04:41
schestowitz	Lost more billiobs	Feb 23 04:42
schestowitz	They tried Zune. Haha.	Feb 23 04:42
oiaohm	And making a profit.	Feb 23 04:42
schestowitz	Liceinsing fees for WM are low due to Linux	Feb 23 04:42
schestowitz	WincE.. $3 apiece, due to Linux	Feb 23 04:42
balzac	I saw this poor guy who had a Zune logo as a tattoo	Feb 23 04:42
schestowitz	Since around 2004 (not sure, don't trust me on this)	Feb 23 04:42
schestowitz	Patents is like mortgages	Feb 23 04:42
schestowitz	Imaginary stuff	Feb 23 04:43
oiaohm	Patents have limited live spans as well.	Feb 23 04:43
schestowitz	balzac> The Linux Kernel's most important aspect is the hardware-compatibility.	Feb 23 04:43
schestowitz	Linux has the best hardware support anywhere.	Feb 23 04:43
schestowitz	But not necessarily when it comes to MS-centric h/w	Feb 23 04:43
balzac	yeah, but they need to get the blobs out	Feb 23 04:43
oiaohm	Linux Kernel hardware compatiblity too a look of work.	Feb 23 04:43
oiaohm	took	Feb 23 04:43
balzac	oiaohm: sure	Feb 23 04:43
schestowitz	Microsoft is drolling for something like Linux	Feb 23 04:43
schestowitz	Sun especiually	Feb 23 04:43
balzac	but it's the drivers	Feb 23 04:43
oiaohm	to get hardware companies on side.	Feb 23 04:44
schestowitz	Sun craves Linux-like h/w support	Feb 23 04:44
oiaohm	So drivers could be built.	Feb 23 04:44
schestowitz	Then they could use KDE/GNOME to make a solid substitute	Feb 23 04:44
balzac	the corporate support for the linux kernel project was what really made it fly. It's good that it has a GPL-license.	Feb 23 04:44
oiaohm	blobs are the price to get some on side.	Feb 23 04:44
balzac	But they really need to keep the blobs out	Feb 23 04:44
schestowitz	> oiaohm> Google has a track record of selling hardware	Feb 23 04:44
schestowitz	Coirrect, search appliances	Feb 23 04:44
oiaohm	Remember BSD is older.	Feb 23 04:44
schestowitz	Big money right there.	Feb 23 04:44
oiaohm	And BSD has never really got anywhere.	Feb 23 04:45
oiaohm	It shows the importance of licence.	Feb 23 04:45
balzac	Well, BSD doesn't have a "copyleft"	Feb 23 04:45
schestowitz	Yes, developer attraction	Feb 23 04:45
balzac	it didn't have the right kind of "social contract" for a strong community	Feb 23 04:45
oiaohm	GPL is about making developer work with each other.	Feb 23 04:45
schestowitz	BSD lawsuits also bought Linux time	Feb 23 04:45
oiaohm	BSD lets people take stuff.	Feb 23 04:45
balzac	The Linux Kernel project had the GPL - the gold standard among software licenses	Feb 23 04:45
schestowitz	Reversing copyright law	Feb 23 04:46
schestowitz	Seems to work well after all	Feb 23 04:46
schestowitz	Copywrong	Feb 23 04:46
oiaohm	The Licence is the secrect to linux.	Feb 23 04:46
schestowitz	oiaohm: yes, some people miss it	Feb 23 04:46
balzac	schestowitz: beating AT&&^\\\\\\\\	Feb 23 04:46
schestowitz	They think it's cost	Feb 23 04:46
balzac	oops	Feb 23 04:46
schestowitz	It's MS talking point	Feb 23 04:46
balzac	tiny little eee pc keyboard	Feb 23 04:46
oiaohm	Without the licence Linux would have never got so many hardware companies on board.	Feb 23 04:46
oiaohm	Forced sharing also creates trust	Feb 23 04:46
oiaohm	Between companies using it.	Feb 23 04:47
balzac	oiaohm, true	Feb 23 04:47
balzac	oiaohm: you're right, not just between individuals, but also companies	Feb 23 04:47
oiaohm	Hardware companies have to trust they will not be betrayed.	Feb 23 04:47
balzac	I haven't thought much about how the GPL facilitates strategic cooperation between companies	Feb 23 04:47
oiaohm	And have there devices cloned.	Feb 23 04:47
oiaohm	GPL has changed the open source world in more ways than a lot of people dream.	Feb 23 04:48
balzac	I've put more attention on individuals, because during the early stages, individuals make or break a free software project	Feb 23 04:48
balzac	so the choice of license is important	Feb 23 04:48
oiaohm	Wine was almost destroyed by the incorrect selection of licence.	Feb 23 04:48
oiaohm	They started life with MIT licence.	Feb 23 04:48
oiaohm	One company took there source base and went closed. Lucky there were not good at it.	Feb 23 04:49
balzac	oiaohm: hardware companies have to know that their devices will be cloned, but they have to keep innovating and trust that loyalty to their brand will be their reward for playing nice with their customers	Feb 23 04:49
oiaohm	Wine had to change to lgpl to protect themselves from future attacks.	Feb 23 04:49
balzac	oiaohm: there was a good article on a Linux website	Feb 23 04:50
oiaohm	balzac if you spent a few million design a chips.	Feb 23 04:50
oiaohm	You don't want someone just copy cating you chip.	Feb 23 04:50
oiaohm	Withotu putting in the work.	Feb 23 04:50
balzac	the writer says the "GPL is the disruptive technology of GNU/Linux, not the software"	Feb 23 04:50
oiaohm	GPL means no secrets.	Feb 23 04:51
balzac	that's what really separates GNU/Linux from other software	Feb 23 04:51
oiaohm	If you are a non approved clone maker and everyone knows.	Feb 23 04:52
oiaohm	How long before your means to sell stuff reduces.	Feb 23 04:52
oiaohm	Really closed source driver idea gives hardware makers less protection.	Feb 23 04:52
balzac	well, now it's time that these hardware manufacturers think about their relationship with the F&OSS community	Feb 23 04:53
oiaohm	They are	Feb 23 04:54
balzac	while MS loses it's iron grip on their necks	Feb 23 04:54
balzac	and game companies need to get real	Feb 23 04:54
balzac	the president of Valve asks on Digg whether games are over-priced	Feb 23 04:54
oiaohm	AMD VIA and Intel in joint packet over video card drivers.	Feb 23 04:54
balzac	yes they are, but your games are based on a license which is ridiculous and archaic	Feb 23 04:54
balzac	forget about the cost of these silly games	Feb 23 04:55
oiaohm	Nvidia has formally agreed never to apply patents against open source.	Feb 23 04:55
oiaohm	Ok not help open source just never sue open source.	Feb 23 04:55
oiaohm	Most hardware makers we have the basic these days.	Feb 23 04:55
balzac	the licenses are just paranoia-inducing, anti-social, archaic, relics of the past	Feb 23 04:55
oiaohm	licenses have there place.	Feb 23 04:55
oiaohm	Licences provide the rules.	Feb 23 04:56
balzac	well, i'm talking about the licenses which start with "never share this or the FBI will get you"	Feb 23 04:56
balzac	like the beginning of a rented movie	Feb 23 04:56
oiaohm	You agree to that.	Feb 23 04:56
balzac	that's just anti-social and ridiculously alienated from your customers	Feb 23 04:56
balzac	it induces paranoia and bad customer relations	Feb 23 04:57
balzac	nothing good can come of it when they want to prosecute college kids for sharing music online	Feb 23 04:57
balzac	or make businesses paranoid because they can't afford the proprietary software	Feb 23 04:57
oiaohm	Was it illegal to hand copies of tapes around.	Feb 23 04:57
oiaohm	Yes it was.	Feb 23 04:58
oiaohm	People have forgot the law.	Feb 23 04:58
balzac	the law has forgotten the people	Feb 23 04:58
oiaohm	Not really.	Feb 23 04:58
oiaohm	Remember most money exists electronicly.	Feb 23 04:59
balzac	when the law does not keep pace with changing circumstances, people break the law in droves	Feb 23 04:59
oiaohm	so would you have problems with people coping and forgin money.	Feb 23 04:59
oiaohm	Remember anything can be used as money.	Feb 23 04:59
*tessier_1 (n=treed@mail.copilotconsulting.com) has joined #boycottnovell		Feb 23 05:00
balzac	game currencies how have exchange rates against real currencies	Feb 23 05:00
balzac	the google click could be described as a currency	Feb 23 05:00
oiaohm	The basic laws that cover illegally coping of data also apply to faking money.	Feb 23 05:00
balzac	not in any traditional sense, but it sure does enable a lot of transactions	Feb 23 05:00
balzac	a lot of value flows as google cliks	Feb 23 05:00
*tessier_1 is now known as tessier___		Feb 23 05:01
balzac	oiaohm: good point	Feb 23 05:01
oiaohm	The law is a interlinked beast.	Feb 23 05:01
balzac	one I hadn't considered in the context of copyright	Feb 23 05:01
oiaohm	Remove the wrong bit you will bring it all down.	Feb 23 05:01
balzac	but this is different	Feb 23 05:01
oiaohm	Bank notes are protected by copyright.	Feb 23 05:01
balzac	I can see the connection	Feb 23 05:01
oiaohm	Just like a lot of other important things.	Feb 23 05:02
balzac	but copying movies, songs, games, can be good for artists	Feb 23 05:02
balzac	copying money can only undermine the system	Feb 23 05:02
oiaohm	Allowing people freely to break copyright could bring the system complete downing.	Feb 23 05:02
oiaohm	So can copying movies.	Feb 23 05:02
balzac	there must be integrity in the accounting of the financial infrastructure	Feb 23 05:02
oiaohm	Large ammount of money gets invested in making movies.	Feb 23 05:02
oiaohm	In hope of a return.	Feb 23 05:03
balzac	they need to rely on people's enthusiasm for their product	Feb 23 05:03
oiaohm	So each one sold is like a share.	Feb 23 05:03
balzac	make me want to see it in the theater instead of on my computer	Feb 23 05:03
balzac	put it on imax	Feb 23 05:03
balzac	sent some cast members to my city	Feb 23 05:03
oiaohm	Same thing	Feb 23 05:03
oiaohm	Withotu money they cannot do imax productions.	Feb 23 05:03
oiaohm	without money they cannot send cast to many locations.	Feb 23 05:04
balzac	if I want to download it because i don't think it's worth seeing in the theater, i will	Feb 23 05:04
balzac	well, you can't get the imax experience from your computer	Feb 23 05:04
oiaohm	Now lot are coming around to providing legal downloads.	Feb 23 05:04
oiaohm	So people still pay part of the share of the costs and make some profits.	Feb 23 05:04
balzac	when you can't enforce the law without invading everybody's privacy, that law is not law anymore	Feb 23 05:05
oiaohm	Basically copyright breaching can bring down a lot of industries just like fake money can bring down the lot.	Feb 23 05:05
balzac	well, those industries can strangle society if they're not defeated	Feb 23 05:06
oiaohm	That is where you are wrong.	Feb 23 05:06
balzac	they have caused the USA to fall behind many countries in broadband deployment	Feb 23 05:06
oiaohm	What is the most damaging thing to Open Source balzac	Feb 23 05:06
balzac	open source?	Feb 23 05:06
balzac	i'm not sure	Feb 23 05:06
oiaohm	Illegal copies of software.	Feb 23 05:07
oiaohm	Why should someone use Open Source and help develop it when they can get Illegal copies of software for nothing.	Feb 23 05:07
oiaohm	Same applied to the music and videos.	Feb 23 05:08
balzac	well, I agree with RMS that people ought not to encourage proprietary software developers to make more software under bad licenses by purachasing software under those paranoia-inducing licenses.	Feb 23 05:08
balzac	oiaohm: open source isn't really my thing	Feb 23 05:08
balzac	I'm enjoying the GPL-licensed software mostly	Feb 23 05:09
oiaohm	Why should people help develop good free content of they flood themselves with Illegally aquired.	Feb 23 05:09
oiaohm	This is the problem. If you truly want to have freedom you have to create a system that works.	Feb 23 05:09
oiaohm	Not just by pass the rules.	Feb 23 05:09
balzac	well, I'll have no part of the system which depends on invading everyone's privacy in order to account for expected profits	Feb 23 05:10
oiaohm	Really blocking illegal content	Feb 23 05:10
oiaohm	Will force people to think about creating there own.	Feb 23 05:10
oiaohm	Think before radios and so on we had to create our own music.	Feb 23 05:10
oiaohm	The world has got lazy.	Feb 23 05:10
balzac	yeah, but really blocking illegal content would mean we just found our way into the plot of a science fiction horror movie	Feb 23 05:10
balzac	but it's real	Feb 23 05:11
oiaohm	Simple fact they don't have to do it for ever.	Feb 23 05:11
oiaohm	Its like over 80 percent of bittorrent traffic is legal content.	Feb 23 05:11
balzac	well, control, once acquired, is not relinquished	Feb 23 05:12
balzac	let the world be lazy	Feb 23 05:12
oiaohm	Its not as big of deal as most people think.	Feb 23 05:12
balzac	I want to see encrypted streams of copyrighted material going into every home via fiberoptics	Feb 23 05:13
balzac	then people will wake up, and stop asserting copyrights against their fans, and acknowledge that the attention of their audience is worth having	Feb 23 05:13
balzac	attention has value and is currency	Feb 23 05:13
balzac	if people are trading your media on the file-sharing networks, be happy about that	Feb 23 05:14
oiaohm	How do you plan to get the costs back.	Feb 23 05:14
balzac	there's value in merely being known	Feb 23 05:14
oiaohm	producing movies don't happen for nothing.	Feb 23 05:14
balzac	how do you not get the costs back when you've reached a wide audience - just don't make a 50,000,000 dollar movie that file-traders won't even bother to download, because then you're really screwed.	Feb 23 05:15
oiaohm	Have you not noticed that blueray needs internet so you can play disks.	Feb 23 05:15
balzac	i don't have any dvds	Feb 23 05:15
balzac	I don't care for all the plastic - the data-density is too low	Feb 23 05:16
oiaohm	Its a bit like saying MS can live selling XP for 0 dollars.	Feb 23 05:16
oiaohm	opps windows for 0 dollars.	Feb 23 05:16
oiaohm	Unless they make income somewhere else they will die.	Feb 23 05:16
balzac	no, I'm not saying MS can live by selling operating systems	Feb 23 05:16
balzac	they have been attacking their users for so long	Feb 23 05:16
oiaohm	Movie producting companies are the same.	Feb 23 05:16
balzac	they're due to be downsized	Feb 23 05:16
oiaohm	If they don't get income they have to downsize or die.	Feb 23 05:17
balzac	so, they're due to be downsized as an industry if they don't acknowledge the value of people's attention	Feb 23 05:17
balzac	if I'm watching your movie at all, listening to your song at all, be glad	Feb 23 05:17
oiaohm	How to turn attention into dollars balzac	Feb 23 05:17
balzac	because I can acquire it if I want	Feb 23 05:17
oiaohm	That is the problem no one is answering.	Feb 23 05:17
oiaohm	Answer that and media companines may stop caring.	Feb 23 05:18
balzac	oiaohm: check out the marketing blogger who has a site called attentiontrust.org	Feb 23 05:18
schestowitz	Christopher Hitchens' take on politics is so terrible still (not news to me but... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwDk8LOD5... )	Feb 23 05:18
balzac	steve rubel	Feb 23 05:18
oiaohm	Have you seen what those movies look like that follows those rules.	Feb 23 05:18
balzac	attention is a form of currency. if you can say that your movie was downloaded 10,000,000 times, that's going to be helping, not hurting your revenue from that movie.	Feb 23 05:19
schestowitz	wb, tessier___	Feb 23 05:19
balzac	oiaohm: give me enough attention, I will show you how I convert it dollars	Feb 23 05:20
balzac	there are myriad ways	Feb 23 05:20
oiaohm	At how much cost to the movie it self.	Feb 23 05:20
oiaohm	Remember dick tracy movie. No single ad placement in it.	Feb 23 05:21
balzac	oiaohm: as I said, if they company miscalculates, that's too bad	Feb 23 05:21
balzac	it happened with Waterworld - can you blame the file-traders for that? I doubt it has been downloaded by many.	Feb 23 05:21
balzac	I think we're seeing a lot of complainers who are taking out their failure on file-traders	Feb 23 05:22
oiaohm	Now basically if movies are going to work on attantion you basically are going to make movies without embed advertisement impossable.	Feb 23 05:22
balzac	they should be worried that file-traders aren't interested in their media	Feb 23 05:22
oiaohm	Do you really want coka cola controling design of movies.	Feb 23 05:22
balzac	maybe that's what upsets them the most, because these media conglomerates are losing their grip as the gate-keepers of success and famme	Feb 23 05:23
oiaohm	There are negitives	Feb 23 05:23
schestowitz	movies are already controlled by Colca Cola	Feb 23 05:23
oiaohm	That will hapen.	Feb 23 05:23
schestowitz	A lot of the context is ad-driven	Feb 23 05:23
schestowitz	Or producer agenda-driven	Feb 23 05:23
oiaohm	Not to the point of controlling the script.	Feb 23 05:23
balzac	oiaohm: maybe you should be thinking about the way things are going instead of the way they were	Feb 23 05:23
balzac	you can't get the file-traders to stop, ever	Feb 23 05:24
oiaohm	Sorry they are stoppable.	Feb 23 05:24
oiaohm	If done no one will like it.	Feb 23 05:24
balzac	they can be harassed	Feb 23 05:24
balzac	not stopped	Feb 23 05:24
oiaohm	Only way they can be stopped is fullly controlled internet conntections	Feb 23 05:24
oiaohm	by by freedom.	Feb 23 05:24
balzac	if we ever had the infrastructure to enforce the DMCA, we would be living a science ficion horror movie	Feb 23 05:24
oiaohm	Already lots of sites supporting illegal software and illegal music ideas are filtered.	Feb 23 05:25
balzac	oiaohm: fully-controlled internet connections will never be the only connections	Feb 23 05:25
balzac	that is the nightmare	Feb 23 05:25
oiaohm	Australia where I am	Feb 23 05:25
oiaohm	Goverment can control all ways in.	Feb 23 05:25
balzac	not indefinitely	Feb 23 05:25
oiaohm	Indefinitely	Feb 23 05:26
balzac	and not 200%	Feb 23 05:26
balzac	100	Feb 23 05:26
oiaohm	Reason the law allows them to.	Feb 23 05:26
balzac	well, you can download from torrents	Feb 23 05:26
oiaohm	torrents are blockable.	Feb 23 05:26
oiaohm	Quite simple really.	Feb 23 05:27
balzac	what does your ISP do if you download a movie?	Feb 23 05:27
balzac	so, another ISP	Feb 23 05:27
oiaohm	ISPs are at the risk of legally inforced filters.	Feb 23 05:27
balzac	well, politicians are a the risk of being smacked down	Feb 23 05:27
oiaohm	Not really.	Feb 23 05:27
oiaohm	They were smart.	Feb 23 05:28
oiaohm	Who wants to sit in jail without charge.	Feb 23 05:28
oiaohm	For a unlimited amount of time.	Feb 23 05:28
balzac	I'll break copyright proactively and publicly	Feb 23 05:28
oiaohm	And get no media coverage.	Feb 23 05:29
oiaohm	It will be like you did nothing.	Feb 23 05:29
balzac	I'll make a record of movies and albums I download, and then I'll send the list to the RIAA myself	Feb 23 05:29
oiaohm	Illegal software trials here get 0 media coverage.	Feb 23 05:29
balzac	I don't use proprietary software because it sucks	Feb 23 05:30
oiaohm	Or music or movies.	Feb 23 05:30
balzac	nor do I play proprietary games	Feb 23 05:30
oiaohm	Basically you would not exist to everyone else.	Feb 23 05:30
balzac	but I do like to download songs and occasionally movies	Feb 23 05:30
balzac	my taste in music can be pretty obscure	Feb 23 05:30
oiaohm	Funny enough here. Downloading is not illegal.	Feb 23 05:31
oiaohm	Its uploading is.	Feb 23 05:31
balzac	I'm the kind of file-trader who is ignored because my tastes are eclectic	Feb 23 05:31
balzac	why don't you upload something?	Feb 23 05:31
balzac	upload something as a protest	Feb 23 05:31
balzac	a small file	Feb 23 05:32
oiaohm	Ie law applys to passing illegal content on.	Feb 23 05:32
oiaohm	Not having it.	Feb 23 05:32
balzac	right, so pass some along	Feb 23 05:32
oiaohm	If caught risk next 15 years in jail.	Feb 23 05:32
oiaohm	Police want internet filters so they can catch a lot more.	Feb 23 05:32
balzac	remember when it was a big deal when DVD encryption was cracked and a code was pasted on Slashdot and Digg?	Feb 23 05:33
oiaohm	Bittorrent breaches our law.	Feb 23 05:33
oiaohm	Cracking DVD encryption is prefectly legal here.	Feb 23 05:33
balzac	well, Bush tried to repeal our constitution	Feb 23 05:33
balzac	John Howard was a scumbag	Feb 23 05:33
oiaohm	Since you are allows to recode any media you have legally aquired into any format you like.	Feb 23 05:33
balzac	you ought to make a name for yourself by pissing in the face of your government	Feb 23 05:33
oiaohm	Just not allow to legally give it to another person.	Feb 23 05:33
balzac	piss in their faces and you will enjoy great fortune	Feb 23 05:34
oiaohm	Our laws are some of the most open.	Feb 23 05:34
oiaohm	Also why our goverment is annoyed by people not following them.	Feb 23 05:34
balzac	I don't want an ISP which filters traffic	Feb 23 05:35
balzac	they're supposed to be neutral, neither for nor against bit torrent or any other type of content	Feb 23 05:35
balzac	their jobs is to make data flow at specific rates, not to filter	Feb 23 05:35
oiaohm	Basically if law passes you will not have any other selection here.	Feb 23 05:35
balzac	if they think their job is also filtering, I will look for other data-services	Feb 23 05:35
oiaohm	Also filtering provides a way to speed up internet traffic.	Feb 23 05:35
oiaohm	Big problem with encrypted bit torrent is that it cannot be cached.	Feb 23 05:36
balzac	well, we're not lacking in technology for network capacity	Feb 23 05:36
oiaohm	By ISP.	Feb 23 05:36
oiaohm	We are lacking technology for network capacity.	Feb 23 05:36
balzac	there's so much dark fiber, yet to be brought online, because the media companies are clinging to the past	Feb 23 05:36
oiaohm	Traffic growth on internet is faster than means to transport that traffic.	Feb 23 05:36
balzac	that's by design	Feb 23 05:37
oiaohm	Here almost most of the fiber links are fully in use.	Feb 23 05:37
balzac	you're not lacking in technology, nor budget, you're lacking in access because access is being blocked	Feb 23 05:37
oiaohm	Reason why there is a never ending battle to get more in the groud..	Feb 23 05:37
balzac	so - destroy those entities which are blocking the deployment of more fiber and satellites	Feb 23 05:37
oiaohm	No balzac	Feb 23 05:37
oiaohm	Australia is a huge place with low population.	Feb 23 05:38
oiaohm	So distances are also huge.	Feb 23 05:38
oiaohm	Deploying fiber is not a simple job.	Feb 23 05:38
balzac	oiaohm: the costs of networking infrastructure are very low compared to other kinds of infrastructure	Feb 23 05:39
balzac	the whole world could have free cell phones very easily	Feb 23 05:39
balzac	eventually we will all have free international long-distance telephony	Feb 23 05:39
oiaohm	Same applies to large ocean	Feb 23 05:39
oiaohm	data cable lays.	Feb 23 05:39
balzac	but it could be done in a few years if the telcos weren't slowing us down by subverting community networking projects and price-fixing	Feb 23 05:40
oiaohm	Annoying some paths we cannot lay fiber sharks in the area attack it.	Feb 23 05:40
oiaohm	Nop	Feb 23 05:40
balzac	yep	Feb 23 05:40
oiaohm	community networking here has not blockages in what they are allowed to do.	Feb 23 05:40
oiaohm	Distance defeats them.	Feb 23 05:41
balzac	oiaohm: so you need wireless	Feb 23 05:41
oiaohm	wireless does not have enough range to get between cities and towns here.	Feb 23 05:41
balzac	but your government won't allot the funds, even though the cost of covering AU would be trivial	Feb 23 05:41
oiaohm	LOL	Feb 23 05:42
oiaohm	Distance.	Feb 23 05:42
balzac	LOL yourself, you could make free wireless out in the middle of the pacific at a trivial cost	Feb 23 05:42
oiaohm	Please look at a map of Australia	Feb 23 05:42
oiaohm	We do have free wireless networks.	Feb 23 05:42
oiaohm	Issue is they only work while the poplutation is in range of each other.	Feb 23 05:43
balzac	look man - the point is not that it isn't feasible to cover the whole world with free voice and data services	Feb 23 05:43
balzac	that would not cost much	Feb 23 05:43
balzac	it woul be good	Feb 23 05:43
balzac	they have virtually halted the growth of network capacity in order to preserve the privilege of access	Feb 23 05:44
balzac	if access is not for the privileged, nobody would buy it	Feb 23 05:44
oiaohm	moblie phone network costs about 100 billion here in raw hardware.	Feb 23 05:44
oiaohm	Because most of it has to be solar powered.	Feb 23 05:44
balzac	so these networking companies are in the business of restricting access by lobbying your government	Feb 23 05:44
oiaohm	Distance so far in fact you must design everything to get power where it is.	Feb 23 05:45
balzac	oiaohm: so if you had a decent government, they wouldn't allow once citizen to lack free wireless broadband	Feb 23 05:45
oiaohm	Goverment provides sat broadband.	Feb 23 05:45
oiaohm	Because for the simple fact its the only thing that can cover Australia at a effective cost.	Feb 23 05:46
oiaohm	Now problem how does a community network afford to put a sat up there.	Feb 23 05:46
balzac	that's not for AU	Feb 23 05:46
balzac	that's for a municipal-scale project	Feb 23 05:46
oiaohm	To cover Australia it takes 2 sat.	Feb 23 05:47
oiaohm	We already have municipal scale	Feb 23 05:47
oiaohm	That does not cover half our poplutation.	Feb 23 05:47
oiaohm	Yes over half don't live in towns or cities.	Feb 23 05:47
balzac	Australia can afford networking technology to cover its whole territory for less than 1% of GDP, I bet.	Feb 23 05:47
balzac	if your whole national infrastructure can be afforded for less than 1% of GDP, that means it isn't done because it isn't feasible, it isn't done because people want to be your gate-keepers and keep you trapped like a bunch of sheep in a fence.	Feb 23 05:49
oiaohm	1 person per 2.833/km2 on adverage.	Feb 23 05:49
balzac	what's your GDP?	Feb 23 05:49
balzac	I'll tell u in a sec	Feb 23 05:49
oiaohm	$762.887 billion	Feb 23 05:49
balzac	ok, if you give me a 7 billion dollar budget	Feb 23 05:51
balzac	that's less than 1%	Feb 23 05:51
oiaohm	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of... Australia is one of the lead population per land area in the world.	Feb 23 05:52
balzac	and I'll give you national broadband coverage over every inch of the outback and tasmania and any islands as well	Feb 23 05:52
balzac	and I'll keep most of the money for myself	Feb 23 05:52
oiaohm	You would have to go sat	Feb 23 05:52
balzac	no prob	Feb 23 05:52
oiaohm	Simple fact land based	Feb 23 05:52
oiaohm	No way.	Feb 23 05:53
oiaohm	Then next problem. Sat and weather here drops out.	Feb 23 05:53
balzac	7 billion is my budget	Feb 23 05:53
oiaohm	In the lower half.	Feb 23 05:53
oiaohm	Taz would give you a big problem.	Feb 23 05:53
balzac	well, I'd put up some towers as well, and run some fiber across the continent	Feb 23 05:53
balzac	well, I've got 7B	Feb 23 05:53
balzac	no problem	Feb 23 05:53
oiaohm	Southren lights.	Feb 23 05:53
balzac	I'd use fiber there	Feb 23 05:54
balzac	point to point direction antennas	Feb 23 05:54
oiaohm	7 B would go just putting fiber in taz	Feb 23 05:54
balzac	I'd have all kinds of innovative ideas	Feb 23 05:54
oiaohm	To be correct just to lay the link between mainland and taz	Feb 23 05:54
balzac	well, not if it were my 7B to spend	Feb 23 05:54
oiaohm	Bass straight	Feb 23 05:54
balzac	I'd use point-to-point directional antenna instead	Feb 23 05:54
oiaohm	Again not there.	Feb 23 05:55
balzac	high-power signal	Feb 23 05:55
balzac	I	Feb 23 05:55
balzac	I'd put them up	Feb 23 05:55
oiaohm	They have been put there.	Feb 23 05:55
oiaohm	And they have been lost.	Feb 23 05:55
oiaohm	Bass straight.	Feb 23 05:55
balzac	anyway, you'd have full national coverage for less than 1% of GDP	Feb 23 05:55
oiaohm	Nasty storm generating location.	Feb 23 05:55
balzac	lost?	Feb 23 05:55
balzac	ok, put up a bigger one	Feb 23 05:55
oiaohm	this is the problem	Feb 23 05:56
balzac	fool engineers didn't measure wind-strength?	Feb 23 05:56
oiaohm	Australia huge.	Feb 23 05:56
oiaohm	They did but who allows on a boat being sent into the tower.	Feb 23 05:56
balzac	well, I said before the most important thing is to give every citizen access, not to cover empty zones where no people live	Feb 23 05:56
balzac	anyway, your country can afford it	Feb 23 05:56
oiaohm	Basically that section is fiber only.	Feb 23 05:56
balzac	the cost of networking equipment is trivial	Feb 23 05:57
oiaohm	We have other sections like that as well.	Feb 23 05:57
oiaohm	Large place many nasty problems.	Feb 23 05:57
balzac	yeah, well your gov is the problem	Feb 23 05:57
balzac	as is ours	Feb 23 05:57
oiaohm	Total worked out cost is half our our GDP to do it.	Feb 23 05:57
oiaohm	yes ouch.	Feb 23 05:58
balzac	I think you should have the kind of broadband they have in tokyo over every inch of the outback, and 100 miles out to sea from the coast	Feb 23 05:58
balzac	just in case you should go yachting	Feb 23 05:58
balzac	oiaohm: where did you get that figure	Feb 23 05:59
balzac	06:04 < oiaohm> Total worked out cost is half our our GDP to do it.	Feb 23 05:59
balzac	that can't be right	Feb 23 05:59
balzac	if you wanted to cover your whole continent in pleather, it might be half your GDP	Feb 23 05:59
oiaohm	That was when that were valuing the telstra network.	Feb 23 05:59
oiaohm	to replace it.	Feb 23 05:59
balzac	well, they happen to be lying sacks of shit	Feb 23 05:59
balzac	lying sacks of shit	Feb 23 05:59
oiaohm	There is a nasty little problem.	Feb 23 06:00
balzac	yeah, lobbyists	Feb 23 06:00
oiaohm	Some areas to put cable in the ground take about 200 kg of c4 a km.	Feb 23 06:00
balzac	so don't put it in the ground, put it on a cable above ground	Feb 23 06:00
oiaohm	Very hard rock.	Feb 23 06:00
balzac	so what, why make this so difficult?	Feb 23 06:01
oiaohm	Fiber cable above ground in those areas get lighting struck.	Feb 23 06:01
balzac	insulation	Feb 23 06:01
balzac	this is for engineers to figure out	Feb 23 06:01
oiaohm	that is the problem.	Feb 23 06:01
balzac	it would obviously be less costly to have thick insulation rather than dynamite through rock	Feb 23 06:01
oiaohm	so far none of the current tech works cheaply.	Feb 23 06:01
balzac	no, it's not a big deal	Feb 23 06:02
oiaohm	1 metre into rock gives you insulation that will hold against a lighting strike.	Feb 23 06:02
balzac	not cheap enough for the cheap-bastards who run your government	Feb 23 06:02
oiaohm	Putting 1 meter of insultation around cable will give you the same thing.	Feb 23 06:02
balzac	which ever is cheaper	Feb 23 06:03
oiaohm	Really you don't want to be trying to move cable with 1 meter think insulation.	Feb 23 06:03
balzac	no, put the cable down, build casing over it made from local materials	Feb 23 06:03
oiaohm	Or putting any other rock sub that thick on.	Feb 23 06:03
oiaohm	Blasting is still cheaper than doing that balzac	Feb 23 06:03
balzac	who says your insulation has to be a meter thick	Feb 23 06:03
balzac	we have lightning in the US to	Feb 23 06:03
balzac	it's not another planet you live on	Feb 23 06:04
oiaohm	Its just some areas. Nice plasma balls.	Feb 23 06:04
oiaohm	Ok goverment could always try to move people out of those areas.	Feb 23 06:04
balzac	yeah, well i'm just saying - give me the 7B and you'd have everything - so don't take excuses of your government, their lobbyists from the networking companies seriously - they don't take you seriously.	Feb 23 06:05
oiaohm	7B would work on something the size of Taz	Feb 23 06:05
oiaohm	Its population is tightly confined.	Feb 23 06:06
balzac	how many people live in tasmania?	Feb 23 06:06
balzac	how many natives are left	Feb 23 06:06
oiaohm	500,000	Feb 23 06:07
oiaohm	No natives Tasmania had them all nuked.	Feb 23 06:07
oiaohm	Issue down there is more getting links out.	Feb 23 06:08
balzac	500,000 is not many users	Feb 23 06:08
oiaohm	68,401 km€² in that land area	Feb 23 06:09
oiaohm	Low dencity is what makes it hard here.	Feb 23 06:10
balzac	Linking North America and France, the 3,148-mile cable is capable of handling 40,000 telephone calls simultaneously using 1.3-micrometer wavelength lasers and single-mode fiber. The total cost of $361 million	Feb 23 06:10
balzac	this was 1988 First transatlantic fiber-optic cable	Feb 23 06:10
balzac	http://www.greatachievements.org/?id=3706	Feb 23 06:11
oiaohm	Australia	Feb 23 06:11
balzac	don't tell me 7B for tasmania	Feb 23 06:11
oiaohm	Only country with sharks that like eating cables.	Feb 23 06:11
balzac	this was shark-proof cable	Feb 23 06:11
oiaohm	No it was not.	Feb 23 06:11
balzac	The shark-proof TAT-8 is dedicated by science fiction writer Isaac Asimov, who praises "this maiden voyage across the sea on a beam of light." Linking North America and France	Feb 23 06:12
oiaohm	Same type of cable was layed across our coral sea.	Feb 23 06:12
oiaohm	Lasted 3 months.	Feb 23 06:12
balzac	well, I'd put down a companion cable which gave a signal annoying to sharks	Feb 23 06:12
balzac	or put some chemical in the casing they couldn't stand to bite	Feb 23 06:13
oiaohm	Its return to copper cable.	Feb 23 06:13
balzac	or just a little something which their teeth couldn't penetrate	Feb 23 06:13
oiaohm	Sharks don't mind that.	Feb 23 06:13

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