IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: April 7th, 2009

Posted in IRC Logs at 12:23 am by Dr. Roy Schestowitz


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schestowitz gn Apr 07 00:37
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_Hicham_ oiaohm is the laziest man on the earth :D Apr 07 02:02
oiaohm I am not exactly lazy. Apr 07 02:04
_Hicham_ how can u describe urself? Apr 07 02:04
oiaohm Lot of my work contains lot of borring bit.s Apr 07 02:05
oiaohm Ie databases backing up at moment. Apr 07 02:05
_Hicham_ what kind of databases? Apr 07 02:06
oiaohm All kinds log database its being scanned and backed up.  web site database internal business databases. Apr 07 02:07
oiaohm Next is the system imaging backup. Apr 07 02:07
oiaohm If there is a issue I am expected to repair it straight away.  Not walk away have coffee and come back. Apr 07 02:08
_Hicham_ this stuff is not automated yet? Apr 07 02:08
oiaohm Automated to a point. Apr 07 02:08
oiaohm The thing spits out anyone who has had a virus and the like. Apr 07 02:09
oiaohm And other strange happenings. Apr 07 02:09
oiaohm Its the responding to strange happings is why I am here. Apr 07 02:10
oiaohm Some days 100 percent nothing. Apr 07 02:10
oiaohm Other days eep. Apr 07 02:10
_Hicham_ strange happenings? Apr 07 02:10
oiaohm Servers not keeping 100 percent uptime and the like. Apr 07 02:10
oiaohm Unexplainable load spikes. Apr 07 02:11
oiaohm Things that can cause me to have to add extra monitoring or replace hardware. Apr 07 02:11
oiaohm So far no smart reports of failing drives. Apr 07 02:11
oiaohm _Hicham_: It equal to security guard a times. Apr 07 02:12
oiaohm Yes the automatic system will record everything. Apr 07 02:13
oiaohm But you still have to be there to be the human to fix the problems it finds. Apr 07 02:13
oiaohm They use to do this on call until 1 day drives reporting smart failure fell over before tech could get there. Apr 07 02:14
oiaohm And back them up. Apr 07 02:14
_Hicham_ what do u think is the most reliable operating system for a big webserver? Apr 07 02:14
oiaohm Solaris or BSD(without cluster) Apr 07 02:15
oiaohm Linux with cluster reliable comes from that 1 part fails so what. Apr 07 02:16
oiaohm Windows 2003 and 2008 can be basically brought down by there filesystem locks under load. Apr 07 02:16
oiaohm BSD with cluster for some reason does not work as great as it should. Apr 07 02:18
oiaohm Something in its tcp/ip stack does not spreed the laod. Apr 07 02:18
_Hicham_ so solaris is the best? Apr 07 02:21
oiaohm It depends on how much hardware you have. Apr 07 02:22
oiaohm The differences between Linux BSD and Solaris is not much in stablity. Apr 07 02:22
_Hicham_ in what? Apr 07 02:22
oiaohm Difference in hardware support is massive. Apr 07 02:22
_Hicham_ Linux supports more hardware? Apr 07 02:23
oiaohm Yep Apr 07 02:23
NeonFloss hey, I though you guys might be interested in this – http://freemusicarchive.org – a CC music project – sorry for interuption Apr 07 02:23
oiaohm out of all the OS options Linux supports the most. Apr 07 02:23
oiaohm In server hardware. Apr 07 02:24
oiaohm Even more than windows. Apr 07 02:24
_Hicham_ and the best solution in Linux? Apr 07 02:24
oiaohm It is also the size servers using. Apr 07 02:24
_Hicham_ RHEL? Apr 07 02:24
oiaohm If you are using like 4096 core systems BSD don’t scale perfeclty on them Solarias can be ok issue linux is happen windows don’t even install. Apr 07 02:25
oiaohm Its again task. Apr 07 02:25
oiaohm RHEL is not perfect for everything. Apr 07 02:25
_Hicham_ there is no universal solution for the moment Apr 07 02:26
oiaohm RHEL Centos are about equal.  Debian and Ubuntu gets used in places. Apr 07 02:26
oiaohm It really comes down to the hardware. Apr 07 02:26
_Hicham_ and what do u say about RHEL vs Debian on servers? Apr 07 02:26
oiaohm And administation preference. Apr 07 02:27
oiaohm I use both. Apr 07 02:27
_Hicham_ I mean which is more complete for server use? Apr 07 02:27
oiaohm Really I don’t have that much of a perfence. Apr 07 02:27
oiaohm RHEL has nice configuration tools. Apr 07 02:27
_Hicham_ I am not talking about preference Apr 07 02:27
oiaohm Both equal in what they can do. Apr 07 02:28
oiaohm Most of the time. Apr 07 02:28
_Hicham_ but the difference is the tools? Apr 07 02:28
oiaohm runnign a orcale database you would put it on RHEL. Apr 07 02:28
oiaohm or unbreakable Linux from orcale Apr 07 02:28
oiaohm Both are basically RHEL Apr 07 02:29
_Hicham_ so RHEL/Centos is better for commercial software? Apr 07 02:29
oiaohm No. Apr 07 02:29
oiaohm There are some commerical software that will give support if you are on debian but not RHEL. Apr 07 02:29
oiaohm It really comes down to what you are using. Apr 07 02:30
oiaohm Reason why I end up running openvz Apr 07 02:30
oiaohm With Debian and Centos running side by side on the same machine. Apr 07 02:30
oiaohm Best of both worlds. Apr 07 02:31
oiaohm I guess that is an answer you were not expect _Hicham_ Apr 07 02:31
_Hicham_ no Apr 07 02:31
_Hicham_ I was expecting it in fact Apr 07 02:31
_Hicham_ it is normal Apr 07 02:31
_Hicham_ it is not a preference issue Apr 07 02:32
_Hicham_ it is a matter of functionality Apr 07 02:32
oiaohm Not exactly functionally. Apr 07 02:32
oiaohm Becuase all that commerical software will work on both. Apr 07 02:32
oiaohm Its more can you get support with the functionallity or are you on your own. Apr 07 02:33
_Hicham_ so it is just commercial support? Apr 07 02:34
_Hicham_ that what matters? Apr 07 02:34
oiaohm That really does matter. Apr 07 02:35
oiaohm Something strange happens being able to call a help desk is really useful. Apr 07 02:35
oiaohm Can make the difference between 5 mins down time Apr 07 02:35
oiaohm And many hours. Apr 07 02:35
_Hicham_ u r right on that Apr 07 02:36
_Hicham_ it makes a lot of difference Apr 07 02:36
oiaohm Its like me I use 1 tool to configure most of settings in any Linux I use. Apr 07 02:37
_Hicham_ 1 tool? Apr 07 02:37
imamilkydrunk vi Apr 07 02:38
_Hicham_ what is this tool? Apr 07 02:39
_Hicham_ oiaohm : r u still here? Apr 07 02:49
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hedgie it’s better to ask “r u still there?” due to portal game Apr 07 02:55
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balzac sudo !! Apr 07 03:49
balzac oops, wrong window Apr 07 03:49
balzac Roy really dropped a serious open letter on the patent pushing angstivists Apr 07 03:51
balzac schestowitz ++ Apr 07 03:51
balzac do while ($software_patents): Apr 07 03:52
balzac resist_software_patents(); Apr 07 03:52
balzac $schestowitz ++ Apr 07 03:53
balzac end; Apr 07 03:53
balzac something like that… Apr 07 03:53
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tessier Yeay, I’m on twitter. So how would anyone find me if they wanted to follow? Apr 07 04:56
NeonFloss hashtags Apr 07 05:01
NeonFloss I don; t know why im helping you use evil social netowrking sites :P Apr 07 05:01
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schestowitz Hey Apr 07 06:22
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schestowitz tessier: I only see https://twitter.com/BCMguy Apr 07 07:15
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tessier http://twitter.com/tracyrreed Apr 07 08:05
schestowitz Isilon cuts staff, recruits NetApper < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2… > Apr 07 08:24
schestowitz Not surprisingly, The Register’s Microsoft’s mole is promoting Microsoft partner at the expense of Java which he ridicules. Zend offers PHP cure for Java bloat < http://www.theregister.co.uk/20… > Apr 07 08:25
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schestowitz Making DE wars again… http://www.itwire.com/conten… Apr 07 09:04
schestowitz BN is unreachable again :-(   Britain’s policing problem < http://www.opendemocracy.net/blog/ourkin… > Apr 07 09:07
schestowitz Economist: US collapse driven by ‘fraud’; Geithner covering up bank insolvency < http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Econo… > Apr 07 09:12
schestowitz IBM is pushing software patents into a debate on Free software: http://www.sutor.com/newsite/… Apr 07 09:21
schestowitz Tech Sector Job Losses Up Five-Fold From A Year Ago http://www.paidcontent.org/entry/419-r… Apr 07 09:30
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MinceR geekings Apr 07 09:57
oiaohm Hi MinceR Apr 07 10:43
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schestowitz bbl Apr 07 11:58
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trmanco suse studio Apr 07 12:35
trmanco wow Apr 07 12:35
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_Hicham_ Hi Roy! Apr 07 13:07
_Hicham_ Hi oiaohm Apr 07 13:07
_Hicham_ oiaohm : what time is it in there? Apr 07 13:07
oiaohm 10 pm Apr 07 13:07
_Hicham_ so u r exhausted now, it is the end of ur day Apr 07 13:08
_Hicham_ did u finish backing up the databases? Apr 07 13:08
oiaohm Yep Apr 07 13:09
oiaohm And disappeared to fix a few things. Apr 07 13:09
oiaohm When I got back you were gone. Apr 07 13:10
oiaohm Ever used webmin _Hicham_ Apr 07 13:11
_Hicham_ no Apr 07 13:12
_Hicham_ is it a web interface to some administration tool? Apr 07 13:12
oiaohm http://webmin.com/ Apr 07 13:13
oiaohm Configures most things about Linux from a web interface not matter the distribution. Apr 07 13:13
_Hicham_ most things about Linux? Apr 07 13:14
_Hicham_ what about root access? Apr 07 13:15
_Hicham_ do u have to give the browser root access to be able to do that? Apr 07 13:16
oiaohm Nop Apr 07 13:18
oiaohm Its for remote administation. Apr 07 13:18
oiaohm So it has a ssl login. Apr 07 13:18
_Hicham_ what is the distro that best supports xen? Apr 07 13:22
oiaohm Define support. Apr 07 13:22
_Hicham_ nice tools to configure+commercial hotline Apr 07 13:23
oiaohm Most distributions with right kernel will run in xen perfectly. Apr 07 13:23
oiaohm Most good counfigation tools are netural. Apr 07 13:23
oiaohm And made by redhat. Apr 07 13:23
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oiaohm http://ovirt.org/  << _Hicham_ just 1. Apr 07 13:24
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_Hicham_ I have a slow wifi connection Apr 07 13:25
_Hicham_ it takes ages to open a page Apr 07 13:25
_Hicham_ what is hardware virtualization support? Apr 07 13:27
_Hicham_ is there some hardware that support directly virtualization? Apr 07 13:27
oiaohm Yes there is. Apr 07 13:27
oiaohm There is even some special network card for virtualization. Apr 07 13:28
_Hicham_ which components exacly? Apr 07 13:28
_Hicham_ apart the network card? Apr 07 13:28
oiaohm I would have to look Apr 07 13:29
oiaohm Lest say having cpu do virtual network cards is ok cpu expensive.  But the virtualization support cases are down right expensive. Apr 07 13:30
oiaohm In cash. Apr 07 13:30
_Hicham_ up to how much? Apr 07 13:31
oiaohm Start around the 400 dollar mark and goes up. Apr 07 13:31
oiaohm Yes for a network card that would otherwise cost 15 dollars. Apr 07 13:32
oiaohm Price of the tech will come down in time. Apr 07 13:32
_Hicham_ it is reasonable price Apr 07 13:36
_Hicham_ very reasonable Apr 07 13:36
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toros hi Apr 07 13:38
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schestowitz Hey Apr 07 14:02
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toros schestowitz: I see, you wrote about this case: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/04/05/… Apr 07 14:06
toros It looks like as if open source would get a huge ammount of money for the first sight Apr 07 14:07
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toros but the truth is, this is just trap Apr 07 14:07
toros this money is _only_ for licenses Apr 07 14:09
toros so it can’t be spent on support, or new hardware, or training Apr 07 14:10
toros and nobody contacted the FSF.hu Foundation (the most important free software foundation in Hungary) Apr 07 14:11
toros we just saw the headlines in the news… Apr 07 14:12
toros so it looks like more some kind of corruption Apr 07 14:12
toros somebody will sell debian “licenses” for huge money Apr 07 14:13
MinceR or just patent licenses Apr 07 14:14
MinceR i mean “covenants not to sue” Apr 07 14:14
schestowitz Yes, something like that Apr 07 14:17
schestowitz They mention  Novell Apr 07 14:17
schestowitz I.e. Linux with the patent tax already paid to Microsoft, no questions asked. Apr 07 14:17
schestowitz Hey, maybe they’ll buy some coupons. Microsoft would love it. Apr 07 14:18
schestowitz Ooh, lucky me. I has just started raining… moments after I came back from a run on a sunny day. The weather is erratic. Apr 07 14:19
toros yes, I think Novell will get a nice sum Apr 07 14:19
toros the funny is, we had this weekend a conference, called “Linux in the Education” Apr 07 14:20
toros and there was nobody, who knew anything about this case Apr 07 14:20
schestowitz http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_… (Why baseball benched Microsoft Silverlight) “The other major issue was that baseball considered Silverlight too unstable. There were some high-profile glitches, including last year’s opening day, which saw many MLB.com subscribers struggling to log in and others who were unable to watch games. The malfunctions lasted several days.” Apr 07 14:22
schestowitz Sun set for silver dark. Apr 07 14:23
schestowitz toros: it should be called “Free software in education, iseally” Apr 07 14:23
schestowitz *ideally. Linux can be propriety and Novell-encumbered too Apr 07 14:24
toros yes, I know :) Apr 07 14:24
toros But this is a pretty old name Apr 07 14:24
toros the first conference was 6 years ago Apr 07 14:25
toros and that time the name wasn’t so important Apr 07 14:26
schestowitz @trmanco: roses look great too, but they are thorny. Apr 07 14:27
trmanco schestowitz, what is the problem? Novell? Apr 07 14:28
schestowitz Yes, we should not make them stronger. SUSE brand recognition too is good for Microsoft Apr 07 14:29
schestowitz Here is Allison explaining why Google et al will threaten FOSS when MSFT is gone. http://www.tuxdeluxe.org/node/293 Apr 07 14:30
trmanco just because it’s from novell, doesn’t mean I can’t try it :-P Apr 07 14:31
trmanco btw, opensuse uses RPM’s, I hate RPM’s Apr 07 14:32
schestowitz Sure you can try it Apr 07 14:32
schestowitz I’m just saying, if we want to end Microsoft’s taxation of GNU/Linux, than there’s no choice but to advance abolishment of Ballnuxes Apr 07 14:33
schestowitz Luckily, not any more companies are selling out Apr 07 14:33
schestowitz GPLv3 prevents this Apr 07 14:33
schestowitz Moreover, Novell is very weak. Red Hat and Ubuntu eat their lunch on the desktop and server, respectively. So one battle is being won as Microsoft is running out of money and options Apr 07 14:34
schestowitz It sells/shuts down parts of itself so they it won’t go bankrupt Apr 07 14:34
schestowitz On another front you have GNU/Linux sub-notebooks forcing the company to give WIndows for free and Google/OOo do something similar to Office. Microsoft is rightly scared and trying to find haven in software patents. Apr 07 14:35
MinceR they can still bribe governments, like in hungary Apr 07 14:35
MinceR i think the abolishment should be accelerated Apr 07 14:35
schestowitz School Administrator Accused Of Child Porn Because He Investigated Sexting At School < http://techdirt.com/articles/20… > Apr 07 14:37
schestowitz It’s like the dude from yesterday who got detained by the police for handing over a phone that he found. Apr 07 14:37
schestowitz Take-home message: don’t investigate abuse, don’t return lost property to people. Apr 07 14:38
schestowitz MinceR: I’ll do a Comes marathon in the summer Apr 07 14:38
schestowitz Fox Fires Columnist For ‘Reviewing’ Leaked Copy Of Wolverine < http://techdirt.com/articles/2… > Apr 07 14:39
schestowitz “ISC-G recommends for approval ODF to be a Malaysian Standard. The only person who can stop it now is the Minister of Science.” http://twitter.com/yoonkit/stat… Apr 07 14:42
trmanco brb, kernel update Apr 07 14:44
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schestowitz Novell’s de Icaza is doing a lot of damage to Free software again: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/04/… Apr 07 14:46
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trmanco how long did I take? :-P Apr 07 14:47
schestowitz Two minutes Apr 07 14:47
schestowitz UK is ideal home for electronic Big Brother  < http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg2… > Apr 07 14:47
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schestowitz The UK economy is declining too,,so harsher enforcement is needed of people’s thoughts, feelings, speech, and action. Shock therapy principles… Apr 07 14:48
trmanco hmm, not bad Apr 07 14:48
schestowitz i ca has 2.6.29? http://img.globalvoicesonline.org/Bad… Apr 07 14:50
schestowitz Novell is infecting devices now, bringing the virus to another company that may have Microsoft knocking on its door. http://tirania.org/blog/archive/2… Apr 07 14:54
trmanco oh crap Apr 07 14:56
schestowitz From Red Hat’s CEO to the US government: http://press.redhat.com/2009/04… Apr 07 14:56
trmanco http://www.linux-foundation.org/we… Apr 07 14:57
schestowitz One mistake that’s made is to assume that !microsoft = bliss and that companies like Red Hat and Novell can solve the nation’s problem. Same in Hungary…. money should be SAVED, not given to companies. It should be given people FS hackers Apr 07 14:58
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trmanco my favorite -> http://video.linuxfoundation… Apr 07 15:03
schestowitz transcoding…. why doesn’t the Linux Foundation actually use open/free FORMATS?!?! Apr 07 15:07
schestowitz trmanco: it’s the most professionally done, I think Apr 07 15:07
schestowitz Linux Pub is good too Apr 07 15:07
trmanco Linux pub has lack of professionalism Apr 07 15:08
trmanco ogg support in Firefox is still not mainstream yet, maybe that’s why Apr 07 15:08
zoobab01 can someone manage to play this stream!: Apr 07 15:17
zoobab01 http://webstream.ec.europa.eu/scic… Apr 07 15:17
zoobab01 it does not play neither with vlc or mplayer Apr 07 15:17
zoobab01 MS patented technologies Apr 07 15:17
trmanco zoobab01, give a minute Apr 07 15:17
trmanco me* Apr 07 15:17
trmanco zoobab01, no I can’t play it Apr 07 15:19
schestowitz LF/IBM always think in terms of proprietary codecs. Even Red Hat is still on the verge. Apr 07 15:20
MinceR RH loves sw patents Apr 07 15:21
schestowitz “contrary to industry reports, the company has no plans to discontinue the Neo FreeRunner, and is manufacturing more units, it claims.” http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS… Apr 07 15:22
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schestowitz MinceR: I don’t think so. Only a couple of people claim that; others refute it, people who were close to it Apr 07 15:22
Omar87 Hello there. Apr 07 15:23
MinceR so what’s up with the “Computer-Implemented Invention” case? Apr 07 15:24
schestowitz http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/I… “A buzzword that is used to describe any mobile phone that has the potential to be a threat to the Apple iPhone consumer market dominance. The Android platform is often referred to as an “iPhone Killer”. “ Apr 07 15:27
schestowitz MinceR: still undecided. Pieter is angry Apr 07 15:27
MinceR who’s Pieter? Apr 07 15:27
schestowitz Former FFII supremer Apr 07 15:27
schestowitz Not it’s zoobab01 Apr 07 15:27
MinceR jesusPhone killers are dependent on hype and marketing, not technological superiority Apr 07 15:28
MinceR (based on the latter, the jesusPhone is a pathetic failure) Apr 07 15:28
schestowitz They capitalise on network effect Apr 07 15:28
schestowitz Start hyping it up Apr 07 15:28
schestowitz Then developers come and build your platform Apr 07 15:28
MinceR they capitalize on human idiocy Apr 07 15:28
schestowitz A bit like Zune… only with actual suckers :-) Apr 07 15:28
schestowitz Listen to me Apr 07 15:29
schestowitz This is important: Apr 07 15:29
MinceR making them celebrate something that’s like the j2me platform that has been around for years (except more closed) as something revolutionary and cool Apr 07 15:29
schestowitz Zune is the future. Apr 07 15:29
schestowitz I’ll run your dog, your kettle, it’ff run you crazy Apr 07 15:29
MinceR :D Apr 07 15:29
schestowitz What Zune built on? WinCE? Apr 07 15:30
MinceR i’d guess so Apr 07 15:30
schestowitz They spent a lot of money on that platform. Apr 07 15:30
schestowitz Lousy Toshiba device nobody wanted Apr 07 15:30
schestowitz They take good features like Wi-Fi (Internet and all) and turn it into ‘squirting’ only* Apr 07 15:30
schestowitz *That’s what they call sending someone DRM-encumbered song over Wi-Fi… s/he can play it 3 times and whoops! Gone. Apr 07 15:31
schestowitz The thing ain’t compatible with any other DRM system, so all Zune users are f*ed Apr 07 15:31
schestowitz Wait until Zune is officially cancelled Apr 07 15:31
schestowitz Not even MICROSOFT”s other DRM devices are compatible with Zune. Apr 07 15:31
schestowitz MSN music shut down Apr 07 15:32
schestowitz So did NotSoSure(TM), aka PlaysForSure… sure sure… !! Apr 07 15:32
MinceR was zune dependent on msn music? Apr 07 15:32
schestowitz No Apr 07 15:32
schestowitz I don’t think so Apr 07 15:32
MinceR FailsForSure was already shut down? and was it separate from m$n music? Apr 07 15:32
schestowitz MSN Music was canceled less than a year ago Apr 07 15:33
schestowitz FailsForSure == betrayal of partners like MTV Apr 07 15:33
schestowitz http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micr… Apr 07 15:34
schestowitz “Recently, Microsoft has decided to rebrand “PlaysForSure” and is using a subset[2][3] of PlaysForSure, namely Certified for Windows Vista.[4] Microsoft’s Zune, works only with its own content service called Zune Marketplace, not PlaysForSure.” Apr 07 15:34
MinceR oh. Apr 07 15:34
schestowitz http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Msn_music “It started out with 1.5 million songs, but decreased to 1.1 million songs due mainly to lagging sales and lack of real support from Microsoft. The MSN Music store was not compatible with Microsoft’s own Zune music player. As of 14 November, 2006, MSN Music ceased music sales and now redirects viewers to either Zune or Real Rhapsody websites.” Apr 07 15:35
MinceR a whole little army of incompatible DRM systems Apr 07 15:35
schestowitz “In April 2008, Microsoft announced that the DRM servers for MSN Music will be deactivated on 2008-08-31. After this date it will no longer be possible to reauthorise purchased songs when changing computers or operating systems.[2] They have suggested that customers back up their music by burning it to CD.[3]“ Apr 07 15:35
MinceR what were they thinking? one of them was bound to survive? :> Apr 07 15:35
schestowitz Yay. Who said DRM is a mess? Just buy some blank CDs (pay MAFIAA tax) and do the dance. Apr 07 15:35
MinceR :) Apr 07 15:35
schestowitz Here /we/ are… Apr 07 15:35
schestowitz With oggs and mp3s.. more ‘features’… like magical universality in playbackl Apr 07 15:36
schestowitz Like in the 1980s Apr 07 15:36
schestowitz Motorola spends $216m on money-saving job cuts < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/0… >. That’s what happens when some fools create bubble economies and families have 7 kids (worry about the 3 mortgages later) Apr 07 15:39
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schestowitz brb Apr 07 15:47
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*Now talking on #boycottnovell Apr 07 15:50
*Topic for #boycottnovell is: “Exploring the reality behind exclusionary deals with Microsoft and their subtle (yet severe) implications” [publicly logged] Apr 07 15:50
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schestowitz Microsoft already knows that many people will dislike Vista 7 (or can’t run it): http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/… Apr 07 16:04
MinceR the greatest feature of future windows versions might be that windows xp is included ;) Apr 07 16:04
schestowitz More crime from a company not foreign to bribes, sabotage and blackmail (Intel): http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/n… Apr 07 16:05
schestowitz MinceR: Vista has this feature too Apr 07 16:05
MinceR there’s only a downgrade option Apr 07 16:06
MinceR but maybe they’ll include it in the default installer in the future Apr 07 16:06
schestowitz Until they come up with an alternative to Windows Apr 07 16:06
schestowitz Right now they just try to sugar-coat something that’s dead end, but it only makes it fat, clumsy and incompatible. Apr 07 16:06
MinceR they already have an alternative, it’s called Microsoft Linux, SuSE Edition. ;) Apr 07 16:07
MinceR they just need to support it. Apr 07 16:07
Eruaran Microsoft is extending XP downgrades Apr 07 16:07
Eruaran Even after Windows 7 appears Apr 07 16:07
MinceR indeed, that’s the topic. :) Apr 07 16:08
Eruaran I’d call that the definition of failure Apr 07 16:08
schestowitz Yes, in advace Apr 07 16:08
MinceR yes, but officially it’s called Microsoft Success. Apr 07 16:08
schestowitz They spent a lot on marketing Apr 07 16:08
Eruaran I have another definition of failure Apr 07 16:08
Eruaran New South Wales DET Apr 07 16:09
schestowitz Now they do anti-marketing, unless offering downgrades counts of good publicity Apr 07 16:09
schestowitz Microsoft has already bribed bloggers and sent it to PC enthusiasts with high-end h/w Apr 07 16:09
schestowitz I can’t wait to see that Vista7 frek ending up on the single-core machines of poor families that make up the majority of the market, esp. in economic gloom Apr 07 16:10
Eruaran They are wasting millions of dollars of taxpayer funds on Netbooks with Windows XP on them… and have already comitted to “upgrading” to Windows 7 later… wasting millions more in taxpayer funds Apr 07 16:10
schestowitz Vista7 is not what the market needs Apr 07 16:10
schestowitz So they’ll stick with XP. Microsoft supplies this Apr 07 16:10
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schestowitz Many go for sub-notebooks. There too there is NO Vista. Apr 07 16:10
Eruaran I have a regular who comes in to chat at work Apr 07 16:11
Eruaran I have enthused a lot to him lately about how impressed I am with Kubuntu 9.04 Apr 07 16:11
schestowitz Eruaran: organised crime is to be expected in English-speaking countries if the syndicate is American Apr 07 16:11
schestowitz Germany or India are less likely to fall for it, not to metion Russia and Brazil. Apr 07 16:11
schestowitz Microsoft loves counting just sales in the US Apr 07 16:12
schestowitz Home of MSFT Apr 07 16:12
Eruaran he brought his PC in today… Windows had locked him out saying it must be activated, basically treating him like a criminal… he’s cracked it and wants to try Kubuntu Apr 07 16:12
schestowitz NPD uses this to pretend the world buys Microsoft… XBox, Vista, Zune, subnotebooks with XP… Apr 07 16:12
schestowitz Eruaran: happened to a mate of mine last week… locked out because he’s wrongly flagged Apr 07 16:12
Eruaran when I say ‘cracked it’ I mean he lost his temper Apr 07 16:12
Eruaran schestowitz: yes, same thing Apr 07 16:13
schestowitz I put him on the KDE page… he stared at it for a long time considering the move Apr 07 16:13
schestowitz Many people don’t know about Linux Apr 07 16:13
schestowitz Sometimes they just hear about it. Once they know and see it, the perspective changes Apr 07 16:14
schestowitz Mac vs PC (Windows)  —> Windows vs Free Apr 07 16:14
Eruaran I’ve enthused so much to this guy he basically said, “SCREW THESE BASTARDS, PUT LINUX ON MY COMPUTER FOR ME!” Apr 07 16:14
Eruaran schestowitz: yes, thats why we have a demo system with a linux distro on it Apr 07 16:14
Eruaran It breaks down a lot of barriers Apr 07 16:15
schestowitz ROTFLMAO. GM is trying to go out of business  a lot faster. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/bu… Apr 07 16:15
schestowitz When ch11 comes in they’ll ask, “what happened??” It was a “seaway accident,” they’ll reply. Apr 07 16:17
MinceR i just hope the Chevrolet Volt doesn’t die :) Apr 07 16:18
schestowitz Why? Apr 07 16:21
schestowitz There’s a joke that I don’t get. Apr 07 16:21
Eruaran GM have lost the plot Apr 07 16:22
MinceR it seems to be a nice car. Apr 07 16:22
MinceR serial hybrid Apr 07 16:22
MinceR plug-in, of course Apr 07 16:22
MinceR they call it an extensible range electric vehicle Apr 07 16:22
MinceR (it isn’t in production yet) Apr 07 16:23
Eruaran The Volt looks nice Apr 07 16:23
Eruaran But in general I think GM have lost it Apr 07 16:24
Eruaran Dumping trucks and big vehicles, good… wierd looking single person 35mph electric vehicles that only run for an hour on one charge for 2012… bad… Apr 07 16:25
Eruaran Why cant they just knuckle down and produce some decent smaller more environmentally friendly economical cars now instead of hair brained stuff probably nobody will ever buy Apr 07 16:26
Eruaran They seem to have gone from one silly extreme to another Apr 07 16:27
Eruaran The Volt maybe being the exception Apr 07 16:27
schestowitz tessier: Vietnam is investing in Free software: http://english.vietnamnet.vn/IT… Apr 07 16:27
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schestowitz Who would buy (or be able to afford) a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C… in 2011? Apr 07 16:29
schestowitz They live on borrowed stimulus time (both GM and the public) Apr 07 16:29
schestowitz Anti-Free software masqueraded as polite advice: http://www.cxotoday.com/India/News/How_O… Apr 07 16:33
MinceR there still are a lot of wealthy people Apr 07 16:33
schestowitz How many? Apr 07 16:33
schestowitz I know how wealthy but also how many (maybe a couple of million in the US) Apr 07 16:33
schestowitz it’s like saying there still are a lot of wealthy countries Apr 07 16:34
MinceR i don’t know Apr 07 16:34
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schestowitz NPD is not only an MS puppet; it also deceived with IS-only figures. Just look what it did with Zune and XBox, even Vista. They use selective statistics, very often to vilify their clients’ competitors. Right now they attack Linux by ignoring high sales outside the US. Gartner and IDC have similar tricks up their sleeves, and luxurious contracts with Microsoft. Apr 07 16:50
schestowitz /s/IS/US/ Apr 07 16:50
schestowitz be careful of NPD whenever you see it coming up. Apr 07 16:52
trmanco hahaha, ms to offer free downgrade no 7 users? omfg Apr 07 17:09
trmanco to* Apr 07 17:09
zer0c00l schestowitz, there? Apr 07 17:09
zer0c00l schestowitz, tom-tom agreed to pay M$ ? Apr 07 17:09
zer0c00l FAT cannot be used? Apr 07 17:10
*zer0c00l reads Apr 07 17:13
*zer0c00l thats an old story :P Apr 07 17:13
zer0c00l *finds Apr 07 17:13
zer0c00l “When it counts, it appears that Microsoft still actively seeks to undermine those technologies or standards that are truly open, especially when those technologies pose a significant threat to their business.” Apr 07 17:14
zer0c00l http://www.linuxdevices.com… Apr 07 17:14
zer0c00l old one Apr 07 17:14
zer0c00l Many popular linux distributions have native support for FAT..why M$ cant sue the distribution vendors? They are afraid? or They cannot? Apr 07 17:18
schestowitz They try Apr 07 17:29
schestowitz Quietly Apr 07 17:29
schestowitz Another post coming. Apr 07 17:29
schestowitz Good news! Big Nokia likely to sell Linux MIDs http://apcmag.com/nokia-to-rel… ( Nokia to release a netbook? ) Apr 07 17:30
schestowitz Good news! NOVL downgraded again. Apr 07 17:30
Balrog hi everyone Apr 07 17:40
schestowitz zer0c00l: don’t mistake the TomTom case for an MS win. They are on their death bed, so they leech other companies at the expense of their image and antitrust status Apr 07 17:40
Balrog http://www.9to5mac.com/Microsoft-m… … that comment is funny …. (not pro-mac BTW) Apr 07 17:41
schestowitz Hard Times May Boost Linux in Financial Services < http://www.hpcwire.com/features/Hard-Times-Ma… > Apr 07 17:41
schestowitz heh. Well, H-P suffered a lot from Vista Apr 07 17:42
schestowitz The ‘capable’ lawsuit showed angry E-mails from the heads at H-P Apr 07 17:42
Balrog yes. Apr 07 17:43
Balrog if microsoft keeps advertising based on price / capability, they will very likely lose a good portion to Linux Apr 07 17:44
schestowitz Price? Apr 07 17:46
schestowitz $4 for XP Apr 07 17:46
Balrog but that’s lacking in capability Apr 07 17:46
Balrog current Linux is much more capable than XP Apr 07 17:46
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Balrog also did you see this? http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?si… Apr 07 17:48
Balrog << XP Reprieve, Downgrade May Continue After Win7 Apr 07 17:48
Balrog <<”Not only will users be able to keep Windows Vista, but they’ll be able to step back in time two generations, all the way to XP. “We will offer downgrade rights from Windows 7 to Windows XP in the same way we did with Windows Vista,” a Microsoft rep said.>> Apr 07 17:49
zer0c00l this shows that they aren’t confident in vista 7 too Apr 07 17:51
Balrog yes. Apr 07 17:52
schestowitz It has the V word Apr 07 17:56
Balrog windows 7 is vista at the core Apr 07 17:58
schestowitz It has expensive marketing campaign, more than Mojave. W-E was paid a lot by Microsoft to bribe bloggers with laptops, for example. Apr 07 18:04
Balrog yeah. :/ Apr 07 18:06
balzac microsoft is really having a core dump Apr 07 18:08
trmanco balzac, I would say multiple core dumps Apr 07 18:09
tessier_ meh Apr 07 18:10
balzac I don’t even want to see the log… Apr 07 18:10
tessier_ I’ve been hearing about MS having issues for years. Haven’t seen any change in their behavior yet. Apr 07 18:10
schestowitz Balrog: encrata isn’t the last in this log Apr 07 18:15
schestowitz tessier: which behaviour? Apr 07 18:15
schestowitz The fact that they sue Linux Apr 07 18:15
schestowitz The fact that Windows is sold for $5? Apr 07 18:15
tessier_ All of the above. Apr 07 18:15
tessier_ Same old dirty tricks for years. Apr 07 18:15
schestowitz The fact that they corrupt ISO and have investigations around the world launched to retaliate for the crimes? Apr 07 18:15
tessier_ I’m hoping netbooks will change things. Apr 07 18:15
tessier_ Especially when the ARM based netbooks come out. Apr 07 18:16
schestowitz Linux is said to be growing in market share there. Apr 07 18:16
tessier_ I’m really looking forward to Intel and MS losing their hegemony. Apr 07 18:16
schestowitz tessier: yes, ARM Apr 07 18:16
schestowitz Will raise the market share vs. $4 XP (or $5) to 33% from 25% Apr 07 18:16
schestowitz According to ABI Apr 07 18:16
trmanco http://danishkanavin.blogspot.com/2009/0… Apr 07 18:16
schestowitz tessier: Intel just got whacked Apr 07 18:16
schestowitz Crime… tax evasion Apr 07 18:16
schestowitz Intel’s profits sank 90$ in the last quarter Apr 07 18:17
schestowitz I think their ‘next’ Q is this month, same with MSFT’s Apr 07 18:17
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balzac The executives will be wearing depends under-garments Apr 07 18:21
balzac at the quarterly meeting Apr 07 18:21
balzac Everyone in the board room is going to have a core-dump Apr 07 18:22
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schestowitz Not many are left Apr 07 18:25
schestowitz A lot of MS Presidents and VPs have left in 2007-9 Apr 07 18:25
balzac they took the money and ran Apr 07 18:27
balzac the top of the pyramid-scheme is leeching the substance out of the company Apr 07 18:28
trmanco https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek/ Apr 07 18:28
schestowitz Balrog: they did take some money Apr 07 18:28
schestowitz *balzac… sorry Apr 07 18:28
balzac soon it will collapse and be derided as a ponzi scheme Apr 07 18:28
schestowitz Not so soon. Apr 07 18:28
schestowitz My friend thinks November is when the glue (stimulus) will come loose Apr 07 18:29
schestowitz Microsoft has some crucial data, so I kid you not — bailout is an option Apr 07 18:29
schestowitz Ballmer urged for it strongly last year and this year Apr 07 18:29
balzac sheesh Apr 07 18:29
schestowitz Microsoft is not immune, he argued openly Apr 07 18:29
schestowitz They issue debt now Apr 07 18:29
balzac Roy, I already figured it could come to that Apr 07 18:30
schestowitz $5 bn the last time this was stated Apr 07 18:30
balzac I figured that M$, being a part of the police-state apparatus, would ultimately be subsidized for it’s freedom-quelling capabilities. Apr 07 18:30
schestowitz Closing down Encarta, MSN Music, Ensemble Studio, Flight Simulator and on (oh, and firing many employees) will save them a bundle Apr 07 18:30
balzac this was before any bail-outs happened Apr 07 18:30
schestowitz The question is, can core product fill the void? Apr 07 18:30
schestowitz $3 Windows.. Apr 07 18:30
schestowitz You need to sell lots of THOSE Apr 07 18:31
balzac it just clicked in my mind – proprietary software, DRM – these methods of controlling people would not be allowed to perish just because Microsoft is not solvent. Apr 07 18:31
schestowitz And you rely on people being able to afford a sub-notebooks per child or whatever. Apr 07 18:31
balzac I might have even predicted that in here Apr 07 18:31
balzac I’m like a “mentat” from Frank Herbert’s Dune… How did I see it coming, even before the first bail-out. Apr 07 18:32
schestowitz Which one? Apr 07 18:33
balzac That Microsoft would be subsidized (bail-out = same) if they become insolvent because control of people has a high market-value to governments. Apr 07 18:34
schestowitz More like medical data Apr 07 18:35
schestowitz That’s why they entered Apr 07 18:35
schestowitz Not my opinion BTW, others’ whose opinion I read years ago when Microsoft began Apr 07 18:35
schestowitz It offered free (gratis) s/w for some key datacentres Apr 07 18:36
schestowitz They’ll also LOVE to put critical data in OOXML Apr 07 18:36
schestowitz Only a fool would put his/her (o citizens’) in a format which depends on one dying company whose value was halved in one year Apr 07 18:36
tessier_ Microsoft bail-out? Not likely. Apr 07 18:37
tessier_ It would kill their stock price if it became known that they were somehow in danger of going under unless they got a bail-out. Apr 07 18:37
schestowitz tessier: that’s why I said “not yet/so fat” Apr 07 18:39
schestowitz tessier: FWIIW, let me give you refs Apr 07 18:39
schestowitz Ballmer: Congress must ‘stabilize’ financial crisis < http://news.cnet.com/8301-10805_3-1005… >; Ballmer says Microsoft not immune from global crisis < http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080930/bs_… >; Microsoft calls on Congress to reconsider bailout < http://news.cnet.com/8301-13860_3-… Apr 07 18:40
schestowitz 0-20 > Apr 07 18:40
schestowitz That last one again: http://news.cnet.com/8301-13860… I have more if you are interested. Ballmer also snuck into the Big Guns recently to lobby for bailout. Apr 07 18:41
schestowitz Nokia is hiring for GNU/Linux: http://www.nokia.com/imaginemaemo Apr 07 18:45
trmanco I’m still waiting for the ARM netbooks Apr 07 18:47
schestowitz More cameras and routers run Linux now… http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/… http://www.h-online.com/open/Foner… Apr 07 18:49
schestowitz trmanco: July IIRC Apr 07 18:49
tessier_ Microsoft wants places bailed out and the economy rescued so big companies can continue paying their license fees. Apr 07 18:49
trmanco grr, can’t wait, I might buy one myself Apr 07 18:50
schestowitz tessier: I thought about that, but look at Microsoft’s finances. Apr 07 18:51
schestowitz http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news… (Microsoft May Sell Debt in First-Ever Bond Offering (Update1)) Apr 07 18:52
schestowitz Microsoft investors ‘hang on to dream’ < http://www.techflash.com/microsof… > Apr 07 18:52
schestowitz Microsoft should issue debt for a buyback–analyst < http://www.reuters.com/article/mark… > Apr 07 18:53
schestowitz Microsoft loses 90 Billion Dollars [in less than a year] < http://slated.org/microsoft_l… > Apr 07 18:53
schestowitz Details about Firefox 3.6: http://mozillalinks.org/wp/2009/04/deskto… http://arstechnica.com/open-source/ne… Apr 07 18:57
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tessier_ Losing $90B in market value is very different from losing $90B in cash. Apr 07 19:11
tessier_ MS isn’t selling any stock and does not need to raise any money. Apr 07 19:11
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Eruaran If I was a shareholder I wouldn’t be happy Apr 07 19:12
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Eruaran I’d bail Apr 07 19:12
tessier_ Right. You’d bail. But what does that mean for MS? Apr 07 19:12
tessier_ Why would MS care if you bailed? Apr 07 19:12
Eruaran I know a lot of their shareholders are not happy Apr 07 19:13
tessier_ They could easily buy back the stock cheaply and gain more control. Apr 07 19:13
Eruaran Sweaty with more control can only be a good thing for fee software Apr 07 19:14
schestowitz tessier: they can’t buy back stock Apr 07 19:15
schestowitz They bought too muc Apr 07 19:15
schestowitz Their latest buybacks takes them into debt Apr 07 19:15
Eruaran Luddites has a way of becoming redundant no matter how much damage they do Apr 07 19:15
schestowitz Read the references carefully. Apr 07 19:15
Eruaran schestowitz: Did you know Miguel de Icaza is no 2 at Novell now ? Apr 07 19:16
tessier_ After the latest stock buyback: That still left Microsoft with $23.6 billion in cash and short-term investments — much less than the $60 billion it had on its balance sheet in 2004 when investors and analysts were clamoring for a better use of the treasury. Apr 07 19:18
balzac Miguel will be the last one there – “when the music’s over”, he’ll “turn out the lights”. Apr 07 19:18
Balrog Eruaran: URL? Apr 07 19:18
tessier_ Miguel is awfully young isn’t he? How can have the experience to be #2 at Novell? Apr 07 19:18
tessier_ Doesn’t he enjoy coding? Apr 07 19:18
schestowitz Eruaran: I doubt it Apr 07 19:19
schestowitz In what sense? Apr 07 19:19
schestowitz Technical? Apr 07 19:19
Eruaran I may have misread, I’ll check Apr 07 19:19
schestowitz Vice president doesn’t mean no.2 Apr 07 19:19
schestowitz There are many VPs Apr 07 19:19
schestowitz Like Simon Phipps, Bob Sutor, even Michael Tiemann IIRC Apr 07 19:19
schestowitz tessier: no, they use up those piles for buybacks Apr 07 19:20
schestowitz About $30bn Apr 07 19:20
schestowitz It was in Associated Press Apr 07 19:20
schestowitz I’ll try to find it Apr 07 19:20
tessier_ They still have tens of billions in cash. Apr 07 19:20
schestowitz How do you know? Apr 07 19:20
schestowitz Ecuador Tax Agency Closes Microsoft Branch Offices For 7 Days Apr 07 19:21
schestowitz ,—-[ Quote ] Apr 07 19:21
schestowitz | “We have twice requested balances, payment reports and complete tax Apr 07 19:21
schestowitz | information, but the company hasn’t given it to us, so in accordance with our Apr 07 19:21
schestowitz | laws we have proceeded with the closure,” the SRI official in charge of the Apr 07 19:21
schestowitz | proceeding said.   Apr 07 19:21
schestowitz `—- Apr 07 19:21
schestowitz http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeed… Apr 07 19:21
schestowitz Microsoft Office raid in Hungary Apr 07 19:21
schestowitz ,—-[ Quote ] Apr 07 19:21
schestowitz | “Such behavior could lead to the exclusion of competitive products from Apr 07 19:21
schestowitz | the market and violate European Union rules, according to the authority Apr 07 19:21
schestowitz | known as the GVH.” Apr 07 19:21
schestowitz `—- Apr 07 19:21
schestowitz http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/200… Apr 07 19:21
schestowitz Microsoft exec dumped stock prior to Red Ring announcement Apr 07 19:21
schestowitz ,—-[ Quote ] Apr 07 19:21
schestowitz | To make matters more murky, the sales were not registered with the Securities Apr 07 19:21
schestowitz | and Exchange Commission within the mandatory two days of the transaction, a Apr 07 19:21
schestowitz | result of an alleged “administrative error.” Microsoft has since remedied the Apr 07 19:21
schestowitz | issue by following the “procedures required of late-filers.”   Apr 07 19:21
schestowitz `—- Apr 07 19:21
schestowitz http://arstechnica.com/journals/thum… Apr 07 19:21
schestowitz   End of signed message Apr 07 19:21
Eruaran must have misread… I’m half asleep Apr 07 19:21
tessier_ The reasons they issue debt are complicated but it makes sense now. Similar to how a lot of people were refinancing cash out of their homes and investing it in other things with higher yields. Debt is not always a bad thing. Apr 07 19:21
schestowitz Oops. Wrong paste Apr 07 19:21
schestowitz Sorry Apr 07 19:21
schestowitz tessier: http://web.archive.org/web/20… Apr 07 19:21
schestowitz Financial fraud is business as usual at Microsoft Apr 07 19:21
schestowitz When asked about it their excuse is that everyone does itr Apr 07 19:22
schestowitz Now that the economy collapses people understand that it’s not OK Apr 07 19:22
schestowitz These are pyramid schemes.. many of them. Apr 07 19:22
schestowitz tessier: your tune has changed, though. Apr 07 19:22
tessier_ Cash, cash equivalents, and short-term investments totaled $20.7 billion as of December 31, 2008, compared with $23.7 billion as of June 30, 2008. http://www.microsoft.com/msft/I… Apr 07 19:23
tessier_ schestowitz: My tune? Apr 07 19:23
tessier_ No doubt they are engaging in shady practices. But it seems perfectly reasonable to me that they really do have all that cash. Tons of people are forced to buy their stuff. Apr 07 19:25
schestowitz tessier: microsoft.com as a source? Apr 07 19:25
schestowitz tessier: the cash belongs to people Apr 07 19:25
schestowitz Less to the company Apr 07 19:26
tessier_ schestowitz: They file that with the SEC. What better source is there? Apr 07 19:26
schestowitz It’s like AIG Apr 07 19:26
tessier_ What people? Apr 07 19:26
schestowitz Let me suggest a reading. Apr 07 19:26
schestowitz SEC is corrupt Apr 07 19:26
schestowitz I don;’t trust it either Apr 07 19:26
schestowitz Neither should you Apr 07 19:26
schestowitz It lost its reputation Apr 07 19:26
schestowitz A year before SCO’s ch11 for example it let them off the book Apr 07 19:26
tessier_ How so? Apr 07 19:26
schestowitz And as the press will tell you, they didn’t do their jobs Apr 07 19:26
schestowitz Read about the SEC fiascos Apr 07 19:26
tessier_ There’s a difference between corruption, incompetence, and hindsight. Apr 07 19:27
schestowitz Groklaw covers some Apr 07 19:27
schestowitz Incompetence mostly Apr 07 19:27
schestowitz But negligence in this role can be accomplice equivalent Apr 07 19:27
schestowitz Like… if the execs pay you to turn a blind eye Apr 07 19:27
tessier_ Having done a lot of travel in truly corrupt countries I am careful when I use that word. Apr 07 19:27
schestowitz Novell too was under fire Apr 07 19:27
schestowitz SEC… Apr 07 19:27
tessier_ I am also careful not to take things for granted. Apr 07 19:27
schestowitz Paid some millions to walk away.. Apr 07 19:27
tessier_ And I try to be even more careful not to delude myself with wishful thinking. Apr 07 19:28
schestowitz tessier: you also live in one Apr 07 19:28
schestowitz So do I Apr 07 19:28
schestowitz The question is one of frequency Apr 07 19:28
tessier_ That’s what I’m talking about. You seem ready to flush it all down the crapper. Apr 07 19:28
tessier_ UK, US, throw it all away and start over right? Apr 07 19:28
trmanco http://libre.fm/ Apr 07 19:31
trmanco :D Apr 07 19:31
schestowitz tessier: there is an index for corruption Apr 07 19:33
tessier_ Yes, I know Apr 07 19:33
tessier_ Compare US UK with Russia Or Vietnam Apr 07 19:33
schestowitz Corruption is a ‘norm’ everywhere. You need to find out where. Apr 07 19:33
schestowitz As in, which companies and _how much_ Apr 07 19:34
schestowitz That Microsoft breaks tax laws is a fact Apr 07 19:34
schestowitz That Microsoft was caught engaging in fraud (fianncial) too it pretty much a fact Apr 07 19:34
schestowitz Has it changed its ways? Apr 07 19:34
schestowitz The ‘New’ Microsoft? Apr 07 19:34
schestowitz The one that sues FOSS? Apr 07 19:34
schestowitz And no longer by proxy? Apr 07 19:34
Eruaran http://www.telstrabusiness.com/business/port… Apr 07 19:37
Eruaran “T-Suite” Apr 07 19:38
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tessier_ Corruption isn’t the norm in the UK or the US. It exists but it isn’t normal. Apr 07 19:48
tessier_ I have never in my life been solicited for a bribe nor have I offered one. In the US or the UK. Apr 07 19:48
tessier_ I just don’t find that sort of “damn it all” cynicism to be conducive to a healthy society. We should be trying to remove corruption when we find it but not just giving up on the whole works even when it is 99% good. Apr 07 19:49
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Omar87 Hi Apr 07 19:50
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tessier_ I have always liked the dictum “Our country right or wrong. When right, to be kept right; when wrong, to be put right.” Apr 07 19:51
tessier_ It works well for Britain and for the US. Apr 07 19:51
tessier_ I found out what corruption is in Mexico and in Vietnam. I was solicited for bribes and saw others paying bribes with my own eyes. Apr 07 19:52
tessier_ They have a saying in Mexico, “Por eso, Mexico esta’ como esta’.” which means “This is why Mexico is the way it is.” Apr 07 19:52
tessier_ You bring a Vietnamese or a Mexican to the US and they’ll marvel at how little corruption there is. I know because I’ve done it. Apr 07 19:52
tessier_ If you know of corruption you should expose it. But be careful not to kid yourself. Apr 07 19:53
tessier_ I agree that there was a lot of corruption in the banking system. Not just in the US but in the whole world. No one person did it in this case. But a lot of people just looked the other way. Apr 07 19:53
tessier_ It took all of those people looking the other way to cause this mess. Apr 07 19:53
*schestowitz watches http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aW9P… Apr 07 19:54
tessier_ I’m not into chauvinistic nationalism but I’m not about to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Apr 07 19:54
schestowitz tessier: thanks, I appreciate this info Apr 07 19:54
schestowitz tessier: I agree that it cannot be defeated, but there’s something to do to counter it. Apr 07 19:55
tessier_ Definitely Apr 07 19:55
schestowitz tessier: if you do it, it’s because you care Apr 07 19:55
schestowitz Not because you hate Apr 07 19:55
schestowitz If people stop making corrective remarks, it’s a bad sign. it means they simply gave up. Apr 07 19:56
tessier_ Right. Apr 07 19:56
tessier_ But to praise is just as important to punish. As anyone who raises kids or even dogs will know. Apr 07 19:56
tessier_ as important as Apr 07 19:56
tessier_ Surely someone has to lead the country, sit in parliament, congress, etc. Apr 07 19:57
schestowitz We all commend some things Apr 07 19:57
schestowitz I don’t commend Microsoft Apr 07 19:57
schestowitz They don’t deserve it. Apr 07 19:57
tessier_ Indeed they don’t. Apr 07 19:58
tessier_ “Some analysts and investors have urged executives to further trim the cash balance and use debt to buy back even more stock.” – http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/ht… Apr 07 20:01
tessier_ Debt has uses beyond just borrowing money when you need it Apr 07 20:01
Eruaran The borrower is servant to the lender Apr 07 20:10
tessier_ Sure. But MS took commercial grade paper at 2% for up to 3 months. That’s not of a servant. Apr 07 20:11
Omar87 Hi Apr 07 20:12
schestowitz Hey, Omar87 Apr 07 20:13
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MinceR crApple is attacking web standards again >> http://yro.slashdot.org/article.p… Apr 07 20:22
tessier_ schestowitz: I saw your twitter about Vietnam funding OSS. That’s another area where corruption is unlikely to result in any movement at all in the OSS area. Apr 07 20:23
tessier_ There is zero transparency in accounting over there. The money is likely to end up in someones pocket and no code will come of it. Apr 07 20:23
tessier_ They are making OSS a political football to toss around. Apr 07 20:23
tessier_ Speaking of corruption, the conviction of Senator Ted Stevens was thrown out. Hrm. Apr 07 20:27
tessier_ Was Stevens corrupt? Was the first court corrupt in convicting him? Was the second court corrupt in throwing out the conviction? Was the first court not corrupt but simply in error? Was the second court? Apr 07 20:29
tessier_ I still agree with the sentiment that it is better to let 10 guilty men go free than to put one innocent man in prison. Apr 07 20:31
tessier_ Besides, he’s 85. So I’m not too bothered by this. Now he will have plenty of time to enjoy his computer and let the big trucks dump information in his tubes. Apr 07 20:32
tessier_ Apparently the prosecutors made serious errors. Apr 07 20:35
schestowitz MinceR: old news Apr 07 20:35
schestowitz tessier: yes, I heard about it Apr 07 20:35
schestowitz Appalling. Apr 07 20:35
schestowitz That’s why I tell you corruption prevails Apr 07 20:35
schestowitz It doesn’t work (the law) against Big Criminals Apr 07 20:35
schestowitz It always ‘works’ (;magically’) against people who are dark-skinned for example Apr 07 20:36
schestowitz That’s what the law is for Apr 07 20:36
schestowitz To keep the ‘responsible’ adults in charge, not to resort order Apr 07 20:36
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schestowitz I advise you to watch that video I posted earlier Apr 07 20:36
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MinceR if only we had responsible adults Apr 07 20:39
tacone hey, heard the tomboy news ? Apr 07 20:39
tacone tomboy ported to c++ ? Apr 07 20:40
schestowitz YAY! Apr 07 20:40
schestowitz GNOME cleansed. Apr 07 20:40
schestowitz Did they give a reason? Apr 07 20:40
tacone http://www.stefanoforenza.com/to… Apr 07 20:40
tacone well Apr 07 20:40
tacone yes Apr 07 20:40
tacone it’s a fork Apr 07 20:40
schestowitz Cool. Apr 07 20:40
tacone the guy says he’s so bored Apr 07 20:40
tacone because unemployed Apr 07 20:40
tacone because novell layed him off. Apr 07 20:41
tacone …. Apr 07 20:41
tacone lol Apr 07 20:41
schestowitz Really… Apr 07 20:41
tacone yes Apr 07 20:41
tacone read my post Apr 07 20:41
schestowitz When? Apr 07 20:41
tacone there’s links Apr 07 20:41
schestowitz No Novell, no mono Apr 07 20:41
tacone well, he supported the proposal of a tomboy port 2 years ago anyway. Apr 07 20:41
schestowitz Now he can use the p/l he really wants, maybe.. Apr 07 20:41
tacone the proposal was made by another guy. who never did the port. Apr 07 20:42
tacone so when he got layed off Apr 07 20:42
tacone he did. Apr 07 20:42
schestowitz Oh, February Apr 07 20:42
schestowitz So maybe it’s the old bundle of layoffs Apr 07 20:42
schestowitz Novell doesn’t announce them Apr 07 20:42
tacone gnome is not cleansed anyways Apr 07 20:42
tacone f-spot. Apr 07 20:42
tacone and there’s a bunch of non-default apps which belongs to the gnome project anyways Apr 07 20:43
schestowitz Hmmmmm… http://www.google.com/search?q=sit… Apr 07 20:43
schestowitz tacone: yes, but non-default Apr 07 20:43
tacone the potentially more dangerous being a generic plugin downloader Apr 07 20:43
tacone that plugin downloader Apr 07 20:43
schestowitz tomboy on mono was problematic for a particular reason s Apr 07 20:43
schestowitz search BN for details Apr 07 20:43
tacone is being adopted already by the deskbar-applet (which is default) Apr 07 20:43
schestowitz Lots of history about it.. 2007 Apr 07 20:44
tacone i don’t support that plugin downloader for other reasons, not only for the language choice. Apr 07 20:44
tacone but that would be potentially adoptable by many other apps. Apr 07 20:44
tacone anyways that’s a great news Apr 07 20:46
tacone and there’s already an ubuntu ppa. Apr 07 20:46
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Omar87 schestowitz: I liked that video from the Linux foundation. :) Apr 07 20:54
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schestowitz Omar87: glad you did. Took a while to post because of the ogg. Apr 07 21:02
MinceR http://img.waffleimages.com/8a17… Apr 07 21:35
PetoKraus good Apr 07 21:38
PetoKraus very good Apr 07 21:38
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schestowitz MinceR: he saw the future. Apr 07 21:47
trmanco Hackers seize on zero-day flaw in Microsoft’s PowerPoint: http://www.infoworld.com/d/security-cent… Apr 07 21:48
schestowitz Yes, old news by now Apr 07 21:51
schestowitz Microsoft sez “heh… not many attacks yet..” Apr 07 21:51
trmanco yeah, I’m sort of catching up Apr 07 21:52
schestowitz Oh, you were away Apr 07 21:57
trmanco :-p Apr 07 21:58
MinceR :) Apr 07 22:03
schestowitz State-owned RBS to axe 9,500 workers < http://www.theregister.co.uk/200… > Apr 07 22:08
trmanco http://www.datacenterknowledge.com/… Apr 07 22:08
schestowitz BN loses touch sometimes Apr 07 22:09
schestowitz I doubt it’s related though Apr 07 22:09
schestowitz Other sites seemed less responsive recently (unavilable at times) Apr 07 22:09
schestowitz Microsoft’s PR department must have been drunk if it allowed this to come out so early: http://www.channelregister.co.uk/… Apr 07 22:10
werehedgehog wow Apr 07 22:10
schestowitz MS: “Here’s your lobster… and here… is the puke bucket. Enjoy your meal” Apr 07 22:11
schestowitz The AP’s Desperate Attempt To Outlaw Search Engine Links < http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2… > Apr 07 22:15
PetoKraus who’s AP? Apr 07 22:21
schestowitz Associated Gangsters Apr 07 22:23
schestowitz Cool, but not energy-efficient: http://blog.wired.com/cars/2009/04… (It’s Not a Flying Car — It’s a Driveable Airplane) Apr 07 22:23
schestowitz http://www.rightpundits.com/?p=3674 (AP Attempts to Shut Bloggers Out ) Apr 07 22:24
schestowitz ‘For a while now, the AP has had been fighting this insane war against bloggers who quote and use snippets of their articles in blog posts. About a year or so ago the AP decided they would try to charge bloggers and other sites $2.50 cents per word and threatened to sue anyone who did not comply with their dumb “copyright” scheme.’ Apr 07 22:24
*trmanco has quit () Apr 07 22:36
schestowitz “is wondering why Microsoft Excel does not accept ODF format files while Open Office does accept xls sheets …. another point for OpenOffice” http://twitter.com/hwiggerm/… Apr 07 22:37
schestowitz I hear from friends that this could harm Firefox for Linux: Google ‘Chromium’ pre-alpha available for Ubuntu users http://www.neowin.net/news/software/09… Apr 07 22:43
Balrog_ schestowitz: FOSS? Apr 07 22:43
schestowitz Nope Apr 07 22:43
schestowitz Not Chrome anyway Apr 07 22:44
MinceR afaik Chromium is FLOSS Apr 07 22:45
MinceR and someone will probably make more privacy-friendly versions Apr 07 22:45
MinceR iirc they’ve done it with windows Chromium already Apr 07 22:45
schestowitz Yes Apr 07 22:48
schestowitz But to make something privacy-aware for Windows is like putting a safe on the front desk of a brothel Apr 07 22:54
schestowitz Windows is spyware, by definition Apr 07 22:54
Balrog_ schestowitz: what to do about games that are only for windows? Apr 07 22:55
MinceR having to keep windows for games is unfortunate Apr 07 22:56
MinceR but the os matters less then Apr 07 22:56
MinceR for example if windows crashes, all you lose is your gaming since the last time you saved Apr 07 22:56
MinceR the failings of the gui are less significant if one app manages the whole screen raw Apr 07 22:57
MinceR and the flaws of the task scheduler are probably less important Apr 07 22:57
schestowitz zoobab01: http://www.google.com/search?hl=… Apr 07 23:00
schestowitz Balrog: people move gradually, not cold turkey Apr 07 23:01
schestowitz They can play some old games and buy new games that run on GNU/Linux Apr 07 23:01
schestowitz Then, later on, their ‘nostalgia stash’ will run under Wine. Apr 07 23:02
schestowitz Windows Is Not on 96% of Netbooks < http://www.microsoft-watch.com/content/… > Apr 07 23:15
schestowitz gn Apr 07 23:15
MinceR o/ Apr 07 23:16
MinceR gn Apr 07 23:17
*_Hicham_ (i=c40cf563@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-a1fa8276b7c2c7c2) has joined #boycottnovell Apr 07 23:36
_Hicham_ Hi Roy! Apr 07 23:37
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Balrog_ what about Cedega? Apr 07 23:57
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A Single Comment

  1. MonkeeSage said,

    April 8, 2009 at 2:35 am


    In a previous IRC log (posted here: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/23/irc-log-22122008/) schestowitz asked if I’m a “mono person”–or something to that effect–and posted my ISP (which shows very bad taste, BTW–what is this, CoS?). I guess anyone with a strong dissenting view is, de facto, just a corporate pawn. In fact, I’m a currently-out-of-work software engineer who has worked, in a professional capacity, with PHP and C# (though–as I’ve stated before–I have no vested interest in Microsoft or Novell, and have never been employeed, directly or indirectly, by either corporation). So, just for your edification, I’m a programmer, with no legal training, with no affiliation with Microsoft or Novell, who disagrees with the position this site takes regarding issues of copyright and patent liability regarding the core .NET technologies. Nothing more or less.

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