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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: April 13th, 2009 – Part 2

Posted in IRC Logs at 8:26 pm by Dr. Roy Schestowitz


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To use your own IRC client, join channel #boycottnovell in FreeNode.

schestowitz That would not be 50% Apr 13 10:09
DaemonFC “He’s a terrorist” “Kill him” “Off with his head” Apr 13 10:09
schestowitz There are followers… ignorant ones sometimes Apr 13 10:09
DaemonFC then going to Obama rallies and slashing tires Apr 13 10:09
schestowitz It’s not their fault. Apr 13 10:09
DaemonFC there you have the street thugs Apr 13 10:09
schestowitz Well, it’s easy to identify with one who tells war stories Apr 13 10:10
DaemonFC Homeland Security is essentially the S.A. Apr 13 10:10
DaemonFC an entire framework was being set up Apr 13 10:10
DaemonFC well what I saw was the brink of fascism Apr 13 10:11
DaemonFC and an 11th hour near miss Apr 13 10:12
DaemonFC :) Apr 13 10:12
oiaohm Problem we have is dependance. Apr 13 10:12
oiaohm Everyone is raised to depend on popular programs and media. Apr 13 10:12
DaemonFC well, I don’t even know why I have cable Apr 13 10:13
DaemonFC there’s so much damned fake news and religious crap masquerading as science Apr 13 10:13
DaemonFC it’s just sickening Apr 13 10:13
DaemonFC the Christians have basically infiltrated and taken over the Discovery Channel, for example Apr 13 10:14
oiaohm War of the mind. Apr 13 10:14
oiaohm People are being taught not to question. Apr 13 10:14
DaemonFC I’m just waiting for “Walking on water with the dinosaurs: The true story of Jesus” Apr 13 10:15
DaemonFC :P Apr 13 10:15
DaemonFC that’s all it is, instead of being educated, they want to fill your head with mush from an early age, fairy tales, and indoctrinate you Apr 13 10:17
DaemonFC before you’re old enough to reject it as patently false Apr 13 10:17
oiaohm Walking on water is funny. Apr 13 10:20
oiaohm It never happened in the bible its a translation error. Apr 13 10:20
oiaohm Walking besided water some how got translated to walking on water Apr 13 10:20
schestowitz Stop the ACTA: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/04/… Apr 13 10:20
schestowitz oiaohm: don’t ruin their story :) Apr 13 10:22
schestowitz There are already many paintings about it. Don’t depress the artists. Apr 13 10:22
oiaohm Budhist with Christion combination makes up my faith base.  So the correct story is what interest me. Apr 13 10:25
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oiaohm I always like the budhist they know over time the stories they tell have changed.   It is not the story that is import its the moral of the story is important. Apr 13 10:26
DaemonFC Young Earth Creationism combined with anti-science, anti-catholic, anti-Muslim, extremely homophobic, extremely pro-Israel Apr 13 10:27
DaemonFC is the kind you find here Apr 13 10:27
oiaohm Yep them me big problem. Apr 13 10:27
oiaohm Budhist base kinda makes me pro science Apr 13 10:28
DaemonFC there’s 8 of those churches within 2 blocks of my house Apr 13 10:28
DaemonFC :P Apr 13 10:28
DaemonFC well, the thing is that there’s so many factions and they’re all so closed minded and so wrong Apr 13 10:28
oiaohm Who else bar Budhists would spend be prepaird to research funny things like how to make a perfect cup of tea as a life times work. Apr 13 10:28
DaemonFC that they even have cross-hatred of each other Apr 13 10:29
DaemonFC and so no matter which group you fall into, the other 90% of society hates you Apr 13 10:29
DaemonFC to some degree Apr 13 10:29
DaemonFC for one reason or another Apr 13 10:29
oiaohm My christian believe also makes me a night mare Apr 13 10:29
oiaohm I pray in any church. Apr 13 10:29
oiaohm That also kinda upsets them when you will not take sides. Apr 13 10:30
DaemonFC yeah, I don’t want anything that any of them are selling Apr 13 10:31
DaemonFC :) Apr 13 10:31
oiaohm they really hate the question Do you recycle? for some reason Apr 13 10:32
oiaohm When they normally say no answer ok not a true follow of god get lost. Apr 13 10:32
oiaohm Hell correct translation is basically garbage dumb.  And god basically recycles out from there into heven by forgiving out sins. Apr 13 10:33
oiaohm Yes I am warped. Apr 13 10:33
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DaemonFC oiaohm: No, they don’t feel that they should have to sacrifice anything Apr 13 10:40
DaemonFC because right before we’re knee deep in the result of our own pollution and filt Apr 13 10:40
DaemonFC Jesus will ride down on PinK PonieS and save us all Apr 13 10:40
DaemonFC :) Apr 13 10:40
DaemonFC *filth Apr 13 10:41
DaemonFC http://www.statesman.com/news/content/news… Apr 13 10:41
DaemonFC hmmm Apr 13 10:47
DaemonFC schestowitz: Apple is trying to hide Steve Jobs so that the focus is not on what happens to Apple when he suddenly dies Apr 13 10:48
DaemonFC http://blogs.zdnet.com/… Apr 13 10:48
DaemonFC http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.d… Apr 13 10:50
DaemonFC Twitter worm unleashed by 17 year old to promote his copycat site Apr 13 10:50
DaemonFC Dude, you’re going to jail Apr 13 10:50
DaemonFC lol Apr 13 10:50
DaemonFC :P Apr 13 10:50
schestowitz DaemonFC: looks Apr 13 10:53
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schestowitz I was just writing about Apple Apr 13 10:53
schestowitz Critically Apr 13 10:53
schestowitz Also citing your blog, DaemonFC Apr 13 10:53
schestowitz They play badly with patents now Apr 13 10:53
DaemonFC Meh, Apple wishes they were the gangsters that Microsoft is Apr 13 10:54
DaemonFC but at least their OS is much more stable Apr 13 10:54
schestowitz DaemonFC: re “U.S. citizens locked up as illegal immigrants,” my question is: why is he entering it in the first place? Apr 13 10:54
DaemonFC it said he was mentally ill Apr 13 10:55
DaemonFC the Mexicans come here looking for any kind of work Apr 13 10:55
DaemonFC or to commit crimes Apr 13 10:55
DaemonFC because even our jails are better than what they live with in Mexico Apr 13 10:55
DaemonFC most of the time Apr 13 10:55
DaemonFC schestowitz: Technically it’s against the law to hire them Apr 13 10:56
DaemonFC unofficially, those laws are only enforced against businesses that don’t pay their bribe to the authorities Apr 13 10:57
DaemonFC and they get made an example of to the other businesses that don’t pay up Apr 13 10:57
DaemonFC and on the news it looks like ICE is doing something Apr 13 10:57
DaemonFC the only way to solve the problem would be to FINE the employers so much that it’s not worth the risk Apr 13 10:57
DaemonFC or start putting some of the people hiring them in prison Apr 13 10:58
DaemonFC turn off the magnet Apr 13 10:58
DaemonFC when I say bribe I mean, sometimes it’s cash under the table Apr 13 10:58
DaemonFC sometimes it’s a campaign contribution ;) Apr 13 10:59
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trmanco http://www.mattcutts.com/blog/ubuntu-9… Apr 13 10:59
trmanco :) Apr 13 10:59
DaemonFC that’s not all that great Apr 13 11:00
DaemonFC my hard disk boots it in 19.8 seconds Apr 13 11:00
DaemonFC I did boot chart Apr 13 11:00
DaemonFC this little creep is timing it with an iphone Apr 13 11:00
DaemonFC fail Apr 13 11:00
trmanco yeah, bootchart would be better Apr 13 11:01
DaemonFC I left a comment Apr 13 11:03
DaemonFC he’s using ext3 on a SSD? Apr 13 11:03
DaemonFC oh my god Apr 13 11:03
trmanco what is the problem? journaling? Apr 13 11:06
DaemonFC meh, seems tacky Apr 13 11:06
DaemonFC if it’s a decent SSD, the drive should do wear leveling Apr 13 11:07
DaemonFC with no need for a file system to take that into account Apr 13 11:07
DaemonFC I’d still use Ext4 or XFS there Apr 13 11:07
DaemonFC Ext3 has to allocate by creating a file and filling it with 0′s to reserve the space I believe Apr 13 11:08
DaemonFC XFS and Ext4 can use delayed allocation and persistent preallocation to avoid needless write activity Apr 13 11:09
DaemonFC so you would probably get better life expectancy out of the SSD I would image Apr 13 11:09
trmanco it would boot even faster with ext4 Apr 13 11:09
oiaohm Ext3 performance alterations remove that extra write. Apr 13 11:09
DaemonFC I’ve just never been a huge fan of Ext3 Apr 13 11:10
oiaohm Ext3 got somethings right and other things badly wrong. Apr 13 11:10
DaemonFC it’s just all around mediocre for any particular usage pattern Apr 13 11:11
DaemonFC tehre’s only one thing XFS annoys me with, removing thousands of tiny files, and I only come across that when I go to remove a kernel source directory once in a while Apr 13 11:11
DaemonFC Theodore Ts’o just kind of gives me bad vibes in some way :P Apr 13 11:12
DaemonFC I really don’t know why Apr 13 11:12
schestowitz He’s against the GNU ideals Apr 13 11:13
oiaohm He gave Linus bad vibes. Apr 13 11:13
schestowitz Just wants some kind of OS X, I think Apr 13 11:13
schestowitz Like Linus… Apr 13 11:13
oiaohm With the ext4 stuff up. Apr 13 11:13
schestowitz Yes, about entering the tree Apr 13 11:13
schestowitz Bad for Liinux reputation Apr 13 11:13
DaemonFC it wasn’t even really that so much as how he was the one of them leading the torch and pitchfork mob Apr 13 11:13
schestowitz Although it wasn’t in final Apr 13 11:13
DaemonFC against Reiser4 Apr 13 11:13
DaemonFC I know all about Hans Reiser being an asshole and a murderer, but they essentially snubbed a great piece of work because the guy that designed most of it is insane Apr 13 11:14
oiaohm btrfs with lead from orcale is lined up to replace Reiser and Ext line. Apr 13 11:15
oiaohm Reiser4 did have it problems. Apr 13 11:15
oiaohm Reiser4 was not designed to recover data from after a crash. Apr 13 11:15
DaemonFC I’m sure that those were exaggerated and could have been ironed out Apr 13 11:15
DaemonFC with elss effort than it took to make Ext4 Apr 13 11:15
DaemonFC *less Apr 13 11:15
oiaohm Btrfs has taken lot of the ideas from Reiser4 Apr 13 11:16
DaemonFC the way I heard it was the kernel people sabotaged Reiser4 Apr 13 11:16
oiaohm Not exaclty. Apr 13 11:16
DaemonFC by patching it with deliberately bad code Apr 13 11:16
oiaohm No Apr 13 11:16
DaemonFC that made it corrupt itself Apr 13 11:16
oiaohm I will explain what happen. Apr 13 11:16
oiaohm You know the BKL problem. Apr 13 11:16
DaemonFC right, Reiser3 hits that Apr 13 11:17
oiaohm Reiser4 code completely went south when BKL started to be removed. Apr 13 11:17
oiaohm Reiser4 was depending on sections of the linux kernel not to run paralle to each other. Apr 13 11:17
oiaohm Removing the BKL and it did. Apr 13 11:17
oiaohm Nothing really targeted directly at Reiser4 Apr 13 11:17
oiaohm Basically Reiser4 had been built without its only internal locking. Apr 13 11:18
DaemonFC they’re still patching it to build and work on current kernels Apr 13 11:18
oiaohm Putting in a missing locking system is hell. Apr 13 11:18
DaemonFC but it’s not like I want to move all my data to it then have it get abandoned Apr 13 11:18
oiaohm Its really funny. Apr 13 11:19
oiaohm reisser 3 bothered calling BKL directly so it was not effected by the locking changes. Apr 13 11:19
DaemonFC I tried BtrFS Apr 13 11:19
oiaohm Its not the fastest yet. Apr 13 11:19
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DaemonFC slowed every operation down Apr 13 11:20
DaemonFC bad Apr 13 11:20
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DaemonFC meh, I just don’t like how distributions are handing things Apr 13 11:21
oiaohm AIO support   << That missing really hurts DaemonFC Apr 13 11:21
DaemonFC especially with Ext3 to Ext4 conversion Apr 13 11:21
oiaohm async IO support not in Btrfs Apr 13 11:21
oiaohm Its one of the key optimisation. Apr 13 11:22
oiaohm Having it on makes debuging issues hard. Apr 13 11:22
oiaohm Basically btrfs is running single threaded and it performance shows it. Apr 13 11:22
oiaohm Thinking Btrfs is running crippled it not running too bad. Apr 13 11:23
oiaohm Disabling checksumming and enableing data=ordered  also speeds Btrfs up a lot. Apr 13 11:24
oiaohm Yes Btrfs does current have the default option of check suming every block writing and read from disk. Apr 13 11:25
DaemonFC http://www.infoworld.com/d/adventures-in… Apr 13 11:25
DaemonFC At that point, the folks who’ll be running the show are those Guns-Gold-and-God Y2K wackos who invested their life savings in kerosene-powered generators and beef jerky. Think Road Warrior, only instead of gasoline the currency will be alternating current. Apr 13 11:25
DaemonFC heh Apr 13 11:25
oiaohm Basically it running in high data secuirty mode. Apr 13 11:25
zer0c00l DaemonFC, saw that video of  yours :) Apr 13 11:25
DaemonFC :) Apr 13 11:26
zer0c00l DaemonFC, logitech driver problem Apr 13 11:26
zer0c00l DaemonFC, you still getting bad comments from M$ employees ? Apr 13 11:26
trmanco A troll on cola already attacked him Apr 13 11:26
trmanco on youtube Apr 13 11:26
DaemonFC well, ever since I turned moderation on and posted that video why Apr 13 11:26
DaemonFC it went quiet Apr 13 11:27
oiaohm They were not sure how far you had traced them. Apr 13 11:27
oiaohm You had enough really to go after libable with a court request to the ISP. Apr 13 11:27
oiaohm To find out who was on the other end. Apr 13 11:28
oiaohm Its supprising how fast the pull the disappearing act when tranced. Apr 13 11:28
oiaohm traced. Apr 13 11:28
DaemonFC heh Apr 13 11:28
oiaohm comcast holds for 30 days who was allocated what IP. Apr 13 11:29
oiaohm Basically once they were aware they were traced it is in there interest to back off. Apr 13 11:29
schestowitz Microsoft and Apple patents are causing trouble: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/0… Apr 13 11:31
oiaohm Ok libable for deformation DaemonFC Apr 13 11:32
DaemonFC meh, I don’t know why I’m worth the trouble :P Apr 13 11:33
DaemonFC schestowitz: At least I can’t see any reason why only THOSE directshow filter codecs are affected Apr 13 11:34
oiaohm You were attacking Windows 7 if windows 7 fails so will many more sections of MS. Apr 13 11:34
DaemonFC they work on every WMP from 7 to 11 on Windows 98/ME/2000/XP/Vista Apr 13 11:34
DaemonFC and the DivX network uses the same type of codec and it lets that work Apr 13 11:35
oiaohm Its already looking like MS will ahve to live though another 12 months without major income. Apr 13 11:35
schestowitz DaemonFC: your vids started discussions in usenet Apr 13 11:35
oiaohm So that means more departments have to go from MS. Apr 13 11:35
schestowitz zune? Apr 13 11:36
schestowitz surface? Apr 13 11:36
schestowitz surface id dead. Apr 13 11:36
schestowitz *is Apr 13 11:36
schestowitz no devs Apr 13 11:36
schestowitz no 3rd parties Apr 13 11:36
*schestowitz eats btw Apr 13 11:36
oiaohm And MPX from Linux coming soon. Apr 13 11:36
schestowitz surface in dying enonomy? lol Apr 13 11:37
oiaohm Features of surface will be in Linux. Apr 13 11:37
oiaohm + blender with multi touch support. Apr 13 11:37
schestowitz okay, done eating Apr 13 11:37
oiaohm Most of those fancy things survace does will be doable on a full open source stack. Apr 13 11:37
schestowitz So, Surface is, to use an analogy, like a big boat for a guy who loses his villa Apr 13 11:38
schestowitz Microsoft has serious issues with money but it still has this big boat that’s useless and expensive Apr 13 11:38
schestowitz oiaohm: Surface=MS hardware Apr 13 11:38
schestowitz Same with Zune and XBox Apr 13 11:38
schestowitz They don’t license these Apr 13 11:39
oiaohm http://www.blendernation.com/2009/04/11… Apr 13 11:39
schestowitz They don’t OEM it Apr 13 11:39
oiaohm MS is not the only source of Multitouch screens. Apr 13 11:39
schestowitz But they still use companies like Toshiba Apr 13 11:39
schestowitz As does IBM Apr 13 11:39
schestowitz ALmost no component of computers is made in the US Apr 13 11:39
schestowitz The company has no production, mostly consumption Apr 13 11:39
schestowitz Except one thing: military Apr 13 11:39
schestowitz And military is not a business although they can sell weapons and this won’t make them terribly popular Apr 13 11:40
schestowitz oiaohm: multitouch and Surface-like things predate Microsoft Apr 13 11:40
schestowitz Both ran Linux IIRC Apr 13 11:40
schestowitz So Microsoft is a metooer Apr 13 11:40
oiaohm That is the problem. Apr 13 11:41
schestowitz With a higher price tag ($13000+) and advertising Apr 13 11:41
schestowitz Viral advertising Apr 13 11:41
oiaohm MS has not made the proft while they could. Apr 13 11:41
schestowitz Research groups didn’t have the media extravaganza. Apr 13 11:41
schestowitz oiaohm: yes, prior to 1998 Apr 13 11:41
schestowitz Then it was a dought Apr 13 11:41
schestowitz BillG soon stepped down Apr 13 11:41
schestowitz Found another scam.. Apr 13 11:41
schestowitz But MSFT generated many rich people. Apr 13 11:42
oiaohm Once Linux gets multi touch I expect market to get flooded with multi touch items. Apr 13 11:42
schestowitz Apple has patents Apr 13 11:42
schestowitz MSFT too Apr 13 11:42
schestowitz On multitouch Apr 13 11:42
oiaohm Its going to get intresting. Apr 13 11:42
DaemonFC MultiTouch is useless Apr 13 11:43
oiaohm Not really. Apr 13 11:43
DaemonFC unless you have a REALLY expensive touch screen Apr 13 11:43
DaemonFC so it’s useless for most of the Windows demographic ;) Apr 13 11:43
oiaohm Touch screens are buildable for about 1000 dollars. Apr 13 11:44
oiaohm Using off the shelf parts. Apr 13 11:44
DaemonFC yeah, well, I’d wager to say that over half of Windows users are on a bargain basement rig from Walmart Apr 13 11:44
DaemonFC and since MultiTouch is the only really big thing on 7, most of their users shouldn’t care Apr 13 11:45
oiaohm That is to self build one. Apr 13 11:45
oiaohm Mass produced should be way cheeper. Apr 13 11:45
DaemonFC I think it could be the next Voice Recognition :) Apr 13 11:45
schestowitz it’s about patents Apr 13 11:46
schestowitz Artificial price elevation Apr 13 11:46
schestowitz They don’t cost more to make Apr 13 11:46
DaemonFC you know that thing that sounds cool and never works right Apr 13 11:46
schestowitz Same was the case when flat screens came….. Apr 13 11:46
DaemonFC only this time requires a $1,000 piece of hardware :) Apr 13 11:46
DaemonFC yeah, well President Bush bought me my flat screen Apr 13 11:46
DaemonFC with his free money that rained down on us all that stimulated the economy that….day Apr 13 11:47
DaemonFC :) Apr 13 11:47
DaemonFC apparently I owned some stock in a company I used to work for that I didn’t know about Apr 13 11:48
DaemonFC so they cashed it out when I quit Apr 13 11:48
oiaohm Voice Recognition never worked right. Apr 13 11:49
DaemonFC wasn’t a lot but it got me a flat screen TV :) Apr 13 11:49
oiaohm Multi touch on the other hand they have tested interfaces that work. Apr 13 11:49
DaemonFC doesn’t Linux support that already Apr 13 11:49
oiaohm Software to exploit the advantage of Multi touch is missing. Apr 13 11:49
DaemonFC I deselected a dozen or so touchscreen drivers Apr 13 11:49
DaemonFC when I built my kernel Apr 13 11:50
oiaohm MPX is not built into X11 server yet. Apr 13 11:50
oiaohm So applications can process multiable points on screen. Apr 13 11:50
DaemonFC so the kernel has drivers, but the X is unwilling? Apr 13 11:50
DaemonFC hmmm, this seems to be a pattern :) Apr 13 11:50
oiaohm X11 complete input stack has had to be replaced to support it. Apr 13 11:50
oiaohm not nice. Apr 13 11:50
DaemonFC X11 is not nice Apr 13 11:51
oiaohm X11 basically has been guttted and rebuilt. Apr 13 11:51
DaemonFC but it’s what there is Apr 13 11:51
DaemonFC since Y never went anywhere Apr 13 11:51
oiaohm Video side cut out. Apr 13 11:51
oiaohm Input side cut out. Apr 13 11:51
oiaohm Both replaced. Apr 13 11:51
oiaohm Not that much left of it really. Apr 13 11:51
DaemonFC meh, I never really enjoyed dealing with X Apr 13 11:52
oiaohm Lot of Y tech is hiding in the rebuilt X11 Apr 13 11:52
DaemonFC but I’ll admit that Red Hat has managed to spruce it up enough to tolerate Apr 13 11:52
oiaohm Like applciations being able to directly write to screen. Apr 13 11:52
oiaohm With no X11 or other crap in way. Apr 13 11:52
DaemonFC The UNIX Haters Handbook is a great read ;) Apr 13 11:53
DaemonFC Why X Is Not Our Ideal Windowing Manager was a good CHAPTER Apr 13 11:53
oiaohm Most of the Unix hates book is going to become invalid. Apr 13 11:53
DaemonFC lol Apr 13 11:53
oiaohm X11 gutted opens up many paths. Apr 13 11:53
DaemonFC well, X was designed to be modular and replaceable Apr 13 11:54
DaemonFC so that’s my favorite part about it Apr 13 11:54
oiaohm Right memory manager for video card X11 don’t need that. Apr 13 11:54
oiaohm Setting video mode X11 don’t need that. Apr 13 11:54
oiaohm X11 don’t need opengl support either. Apr 13 11:54
DaemonFC Nvidia bypasses DRI and just uses their own interface and they have better performance than anyone else Apr 13 11:54
DaemonFC and more hardware-accelerated OpenGL extensions than anyone else Apr 13 11:55
oiaohm ATI Intel VIA all get that after the Axe man. Apr 13 11:55
oiaohm Nvidia advange there will go by by. Apr 13 11:55
DaemonFC I went and bought another Nvidia card just because of that Apr 13 11:55
DaemonFC everyone else uses DRI/DRM and it really blows Apr 13 11:55
oiaohm DRI 1 will disappear replaced with DRI 2 Apr 13 11:56
DaemonFC do you know of ANYTHING still using XFree86? Apr 13 11:56
DaemonFC they’re still around Apr 13 11:56
oiaohm spashtop. Apr 13 11:56
DaemonFC but I don’t see anyone using them Apr 13 11:56
oiaohm Spashtop that in bios thing. Apr 13 11:57
DaemonFC oh, that EFI-embedded Linux Apr 13 11:57
DaemonFC schestowitz: I mocked the Parental Controls in Vista when it came out Apr 13 11:57
DaemonFC cause of Splashtop Linux Apr 13 11:57
oiaohm Australian kid here hacked something harder than Parental Controls in under 30 mins. Apr 13 11:58
oiaohm The Australian goverment built site filter for windows. Apr 13 11:58
DaemonFC I was like Microsoft: “The Parental Controls in Windows Vista…” Kid: “What does this button do?” “Splashtop?” Apr 13 11:58
DaemonFC the Australian government is ran by a bunch of fascists Apr 13 11:58
oiaohm There are insane Apr 13 11:59
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DaemonFC They join all other great progressive nations like….oh wait Apr 13 11:59
DaemonFC that is, nations like Iran and North Korea and the Peoples Republic of China Apr 13 12:00
DaemonFC in censoring the Internet Apr 13 12:00
DaemonFC :P Apr 13 12:00
oiaohm They are offseting by spending up on a fiber network to the home. Apr 13 12:01
DaemonFC Yeah, I was shocked to see a so called free nation openly censoring freedom of speech Apr 13 12:01
DaemonFC that sounded like something more out of the People’s Republic Playbook :P Apr 13 12:02
oiaohm Australia always seams strange. Apr 13 12:02
oiaohm Its like everything I type here under Australian law I have the copyright to. Apr 13 12:03
trmanco http://www.debian.org/News/2009/20090411 Apr 13 12:03
DaemonFC oiaohm> Australia always seams strange. Apr 13 12:03
DaemonFC <oiaohm> Its like everything I type here under Australian law I have the copyright to. Apr 13 12:03
DaemonFC You can sue me in an Australian court Apr 13 12:03
DaemonFC I don’t mind ;;) Apr 13 12:03
oiaohm I legally could Apr 13 12:03
oiaohm Whissle blowers can also be done for it here. Apr 13 12:04
DaemonFC OK, my reply is officially “Fuck you, fuck the fucking court, have a nice day” Apr 13 12:04
oiaohm Where are you DaemonFC Apr 13 12:04
DaemonFC they can find me in contempt Apr 13 12:04
oiaohm USA ? Apr 13 12:04
DaemonFC then I find that they can sit on it and spin Apr 13 12:04
DaemonFC yeah Apr 13 12:04
oiaohm USA we can techencially prosecute you there. Apr 13 12:05
oiaohm Part of the agreement on copyright laws between the USA and Australia. Apr 13 12:05
oiaohm Like its legal to make mod chips here and if we send them to USA we have to face USA law. Apr 13 12:05
DaemonFC I don’t recognize your government’s authority Apr 13 12:05
DaemonFC I’ve bought mod chips Apr 13 12:06
DaemonFC they’re not illegal Apr 13 12:06
amarsh04 back later, trying new kernel Apr 13 12:06
oiaohm Ones that decode the disks. Apr 13 12:06
DaemonFC unless you’re circumventing copy protection Apr 13 12:06
oiaohm Yep allowed here. Apr 13 12:07
DaemonFC eh, in that case, guilty Apr 13 12:07
oiaohm 100 percent legal here. Apr 13 12:07
oiaohm If you own a copy you are allowed to do anything to use a back up. Apr 13 12:07
oiaohm Send something like that to the USA we are dead. Apr 13 12:07
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DaemonFC Like I said, I do not recognize your government’s authority Apr 13 12:08
oiaohm The rules basically allows USA cits to be extracted to Australia for breaking our rules. Apr 13 12:08
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DaemonFC and would refuse to pay any damages awarded to you in an Australian court Apr 13 12:08
oiaohm You would seave time in a USA jail. Apr 13 12:09
oiaohm Its part of the agreement. Apr 13 12:09
oiaohm Remember at one point Australia was the biggest supplier of mod chips to the USA. Apr 13 12:09
DaemonFC I don’t really care what our laws are Apr 13 12:10
oiaohm USA goverment basically wanted to stop that trade. Apr 13 12:10
DaemonFC why do I care what Australia does? Apr 13 12:10
oiaohm So made a really bad agreement for USA cits. Apr 13 12:10
oiaohm Blame your own goverment DaemonFC Apr 13 12:12
DaemonFC like I said, I ignore our laws Apr 13 12:12
DaemonFC I don’t care what yours are Apr 13 12:12
oiaohm The law to extract you is yours. Apr 13 12:13
DaemonFC I don’t really consider myself a party to any such agreements Apr 13 12:14
DaemonFC and I believe our government is overstepping it’s constitutional mandate to create those laws Apr 13 12:14
schestowitz Of course Apr 13 12:15
*amarsh04 (n=amarsh04@ppp121-45-73-168.lns10.adl6.internode.on.net) has joined #boycottnovell Apr 13 12:16
DaemonFC trmanco: I tried Lenny, there’s a few reasons I gave up on it Apr 13 12:18
trmanco software is too old? Apr 13 12:19
DaemonFC mostly because they tend to use old packages that my hardware doesn’t get along with Apr 13 12:19
DaemonFC yeah Apr 13 12:19
DaemonFC I need Pulseaudio for certain things but their Pulseaudio also breaks other things Apr 13 12:19
DaemonFC Cheese crashes if I try to record anything Apr 13 12:20
DaemonFC those were the two main things Apr 13 12:20
DaemonFC it was a good system other than that, I always make my own kernel anyway Apr 13 12:20
amarsh04 my new pc is doing very little as the built-in graphics (ATI Radeon 3200 HD) do not yet support acceleration with Free drivers Apr 13 12:25
DaemonFC hmmm Apr 13 12:26
DaemonFC Try Fedora? Apr 13 12:26
DaemonFC Most all X development is there first Apr 13 12:26
amarsh04 this is with the current release on X.org of radeonhd 1.2.5 Apr 13 12:27
oiaohm It needs mesa3d before it can do anything. Apr 13 12:27
*zer0c00l has quit (“brb”) Apr 13 12:28
MinceR j0 Apr 13 12:29
DaemonFC FreeBSD 7.2 Beta is out Apr 13 12:33
trmanco I have to try out FreeBSD someday Apr 13 12:33
trmanco DaemonFC, what filesystem is default? Apr 13 12:34
oiaohm OpenBSD and Solarias both have said they are taking the new X11 stack on board. Apr 13 12:34
DaemonFC they didn’t mention Apr 13 12:34
oiaohm ufs2 Apr 13 12:34
DaemonFC I’ve used ZFS on 7.1 Apr 13 12:34
trmanco but you’re a ZFS junkie :-P Apr 13 12:34
DaemonFC meh, UFS2 was decent Apr 13 12:36
DaemonFC soft updates are nice Apr 13 12:36
DaemonFC it gives you a warning that you should have a 64-bit CPU and 2 gigs RAM or more Apr 13 12:38
DaemonFC but I’ve used ZFS with far less than that (my laptop) Apr 13 12:39
DaemonFC I don’t get why they try to warn you off of it Apr 13 12:39
trmanco maximum performance? Apr 13 12:40
trmanco 64-bit CPU and OS? Apr 13 12:40
DaemonFC I guess Apr 13 12:40
DaemonFC I’ve not had any problems Apr 13 12:40
trmanco I don’t have 2 GB of ram, so ZFS is not an option here Apr 13 12:41
DaemonFC oiaohm: “Who cares if it corrupts all your data? It’s Fast!” (UNIX Haters Handbook on BSD’s Fast File System) B-) Apr 13 12:41
trmanco LOL Apr 13 12:41
trmanco UNIX haters? Apr 13 12:42
DaemonFC mmhm Apr 13 12:42
trmanco ah geeze Apr 13 12:42
DaemonFC trmanco: http://www.simson.net/ref/ugh.pdf Apr 13 12:43
DaemonFC knock yourself out Apr 13 12:43
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*trmanco has a look Apr 13 12:43
DaemonFC 13 The File System Sure It Corrupts Your Files, But Look How Fast It Is! Apr 13 12:43
DaemonFC B-) Apr 13 12:43
trmanco published by IDG Apr 13 12:44
trmanco hmm Apr 13 12:44
DaemonFC in 1994 Apr 13 12:45
DaemonFC *shrugs* Apr 13 12:45
DaemonFC most of what it says is no longer applicable but still funny Apr 13 12:45
DaemonFC some of what it says is still applicable and you find yourself groaning Apr 13 12:46
amarsh04 back then I was already using vxfs Apr 13 12:46
DaemonFC oiaohm: If the designers of X Windows built cars, there would be no fewer than five steering wheels hidden about the cockpit, none of which followed the same principles—but you’d be able to shift gears with your car stereo. Useful feature, that.  —Marcus J. Ranum Digital Equipment Corporation Apr 13 12:47
DaemonFC B-) Apr 13 12:47
DaemonFC That’s always been a pest Apr 13 12:50
DaemonFC X has a clipboard Apr 13 12:50
DaemonFC and KDE does Apr 13 12:50
DaemonFC and GNOME does Apr 13 12:51
DaemonFC and XFCE does Apr 13 12:51
DaemonFC and so on……and so you always have 2 clipboards and they never work the same Apr 13 12:51
DaemonFC and X assumes that when you middle click something you want to copy it into the X clipboard Apr 13 12:52
DaemonFC (that’s why autoscroll in Firefox is OFF) Apr 13 12:52
DaemonFC but even if you use it for autoscroll, you still overwrite your X clipboard every time you scroll a web page Apr 13 12:52
DaemonFC :) Apr 13 12:53
DaemonFC their section on X still seems horribly accurate Apr 13 12:54
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DaemonFC http://pastebin.com/m1e43d702 Apr 13 13:02
*DaemonFC is busting a gut Apr 13 13:02
MinceR nope, there are no separate clipboards for each DE Apr 13 13:03
MinceR there’s a SELECTION and a CLIPBOARD Apr 13 13:03
trmanco “Did tar overwrite the tar file with garbage? Apr 13 13:03
trmanco Of course, this is Unix. Apr 13 13:03
trmanco Apr 13 13:03
trmanco haha Apr 13 13:04
DaemonFC where’s you get that one at? Apr 13 13:05
trmanco some email where a guy took 30 minutes to download some file from a europe ftp server, page 72, the email starts at 71 Apr 13 13:06
trmanco oh no, just page 72 Apr 13 13:06
trmanco % make love Apr 13 13:07
trmanco Make: Don’t know how to make love. Stop. Apr 13 13:07
trmanco $ make love Apr 13 13:07
trmanco make: *** No rule to make target `love’.  Stop. Apr 13 13:07
trmanco it’s different here Apr 13 13:08
DaemonFC of course Apr 13 13:09
DaemonFC different shell Apr 13 13:09
DaemonFC That was probably csh that they were using Apr 13 13:09
DaemonFC most Linux distros default to bash Apr 13 13:09
trmanco haven’t thought about that Apr 13 13:10
DaemonFC mmmmhm Apr 13 13:13
oiaohm X11 was not designed. Apr 13 13:13
DaemonFC it MUTATED Apr 13 13:13
DaemonFC lol Apr 13 13:13
oiaohm It was tacked teoghter with chewing gum. Apr 13 13:13
trmanco yeah, it was the C shell Apr 13 13:13
oiaohm That kinda started tried out and failed after 15 yearxs. Apr 13 13:13
oiaohm tried/dried Apr 13 13:14
oiaohm The intel developer who is now basically X11 lead has some very chooce words to say about the old design. Apr 13 13:14
oiaohm Nuts was used a lot. Apr 13 13:15
trmanco “When I try to send mail to someone on a Unix system that is down Apr 13 13:15
trmanco (not an uncommon occurrence), sometimes the mailer gives a totally Apr 13 13:15
trmanco incomprehensible error indication, viz.: Apr 13 13:15
trmanco         Mail Queue (1 request) Apr 13 13:15
trmanco –QID– –Size– —–Q-Time—– ——–Sender/Recipient——– Apr 13 13:15
trmanco AA12729   166 Thu Mar 26 15:43 borning Apr 13 13:15
trmanco          (Deferred: Not a typewriter) Apr 13 13:15
trmanco                     bnfb@csr.uvic.ca Apr 13 13:15
trmanco Apr 13 13:15
trmanco “What on earth does this mean? Of course a Unix system isn’t a type- Apr 13 13:15
trmanco writer! If it were, it would be up more often (with a minor loss in Apr 13 13:15
trmanco functionality). Apr 13 13:15
trmanco Apr 13 13:15
oiaohm Who in there right mind wound design a system with 5 different things trying to control the video card without any regulation between them. Apr 13 13:16
oiaohm Opengl and X11 did not even have to use the same memory manager to control the video card under dri 1. Apr 13 13:17
oiaohm   —Marcus J. Ranum Digital Equipment Corporation  That quote is directly refering to X11 and the design of DRI1 Apr 13 13:18
oiaohm Most of the problem with DRI1 it started off dead simple 2d screen rendering Apr 13 13:18
oiaohm Everyone just kept on tacking on features until the thing was screwed to hell. Apr 13 13:19
trmanco argh, dri1, I still remember the discussion we had the other day ;) Apr 13 13:19
trmanco Luck is still with me Apr 13 13:19
oiaohm Its evil. Apr 13 13:19
oiaohm One of my largest hates. Apr 13 13:19
trmanco DRI1? Apr 13 13:20
DaemonFC I am crying from laughing so hard Apr 13 13:20
oiaohm Direct Rendering Interface v2 Apr 13 13:20
DaemonFC minor loss in functionality Apr 13 13:20
oiaohm is way nicer sainity. Apr 13 13:20
DaemonFC that’s funny Apr 13 13:20
oiaohm You are aware in current kernels that text based terminals have there own video card manager. Apr 13 13:22
trmanco isnt’ dri2 suppose to be great? Apr 13 13:23
oiaohm It gets rid of the evils. Apr 13 13:23
oiaohm 1 video card manager for everything. Apr 13 13:24
oiaohm X11 consoles FB … No more video card fighting. Apr 13 13:24
trmanco “If the designers of X Windows built cars, there would be no fewer Apr 13 13:25
trmanco than five steering wheels hidden about the cockpit, none of which fol- Apr 13 13:25
trmanco lowed the same principles—but you’d be able to shift gears with your Apr 13 13:25
trmanco car stereo. Useful feature, that. Apr 13 13:25
trmanco Apr 13 13:25
oiaohm Lot of that will be gone. Apr 13 13:26
oiaohm To be correct most of the configuration files are gone. Apr 13 13:26
trmanco yep, they are Apr 13 13:27
trmanco I haven’t touched the xorg.conf file long time Apr 13 13:27
trmanco I think I never really touched it, at least here at home Apr 13 13:27
oiaohm On the fly configuration is going to be fun. Apr 13 13:27
oiaohm Particularlly if 1 bug don’t get fixed. Apr 13 13:28
trmanco I did create one once at school, when somebody removed the ati graphics card from the computer I was working on Apr 13 13:28
Eruaran What about GEM ? Apr 13 13:28
trmanco just created a new one and replaced the old xorg.conf file Apr 13 13:28
oiaohm GEM is the kernel level memory manager. Apr 13 13:29
trmanco Eruaran, I also have GEM at school, with the Intel video card i945 I think Apr 13 13:29
oiaohm For video cards. Apr 13 13:29
Eruaran yes Apr 13 13:29
trmanco still not 100%, but performance rose Apr 13 13:29
oiaohm DRI2 gave up it memory manager. Apr 13 13:29
oiaohm All the hand shaking removed made a big difference. Apr 13 13:30
oiaohm The new opengl to take full advantage of DRI2 is not out yet. Apr 13 13:30
trmanco “Programming X Windows is like trying to find the square root of pi Apr 13 13:30
trmanco using roman numerals. Apr 13 13:30
trmanco Apr 13 13:30
trmanco new opengl Apr 13 13:30
trmanco can’t use opengl version higher then 2.0 :| Apr 13 13:31
oiaohm Galuim3d Apr 13 13:31
oiaohm You will be able to. Apr 13 13:31
oiaohm Depends what you are programing X Windows with. Apr 13 13:31
trmanco only if it is somehow backward compatible with 2.0 Apr 13 13:31
oiaohm xcb is not too bad. Apr 13 13:31
oiaohm Galuim3d includes a full software rendering engine. Apr 13 13:32
oiaohm So basically can fill gaps. Apr 13 13:32
oiaohm Ok might need a 8 core process to get decent performance. Apr 13 13:33
trmanco :| Apr 13 13:34
trmanco I only have 1 :-P Apr 13 13:34
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oiaohm Galuim3d can do  lot of strange things. Apr 13 13:38
oiaohm Including translating opengl to direct x Apr 13 13:38
oiaohm And vice verser. Apr 13 13:38
oiaohm In call style. Apr 13 13:38
oiaohm So opengl 3.0 to opengl 2.0 interfaces will only be time. Apr 13 13:38
trmanco great Apr 13 13:39
trmanco funny ”                                                             So when you have Apr 13 13:47
trmanco that disk with 100MB free and the superuser tries to put out 50MB of new Apr 13 13:47
trmanco files on the disk, raising it to 950 MB, the disk will be at “105% capacity. Apr 13 13:47
trmanco Apr 13 13:47
trmanco NFS Apr 13 13:48
trmanco Nightmare File System Apr 13 13:48
oiaohm NFS is no more than a nightmare than SMB Apr 13 13:49
schestowitz Network Nightmare Apr 13 13:49
trmanco uh oh -> “Bet you didn’t know that Xerox holds the patent on Ethernet, did you?_” Apr 13 13:50
oiaohm Long since expired. Apr 13 13:51
oiaohm IBM has the patent on a network switch. Apr 13 13:52
PetoKraus hey guys Apr 13 13:55
PetoKraus hope you’re having good easter Apr 13 13:55
DaemonFC trmanco: Most modern UNIX file systems have dynamic inode allocation Apr 13 13:56
DaemonFC XFS does Apr 13 13:56
DaemonFC so that is no longer a problem Apr 13 13:56
trmanco I betetr start reading some docs about FS’s Apr 13 13:57
DaemonFC but Ext file systems reserve 5% of your disk Apr 13 13:57
DaemonFC XFS doesn’t reserve any Apr 13 13:57
DaemonFC but it has a defragmentation tool Apr 13 13:58
DaemonFC so fragmentation never really has to become a problem Apr 13 13:58
DaemonFC as for something going crazy and filling the disk, I guess that could happen Apr 13 13:58
DaemonFC never had it happen though Apr 13 13:58
DaemonFC could happen on OS X or Windows or FreeBSD though Apr 13 13:59
trmanco EXT reserves disk for the lost+found thingy Apr 13 13:59
trmanco ext3 Apr 13 13:59
schestowitz PetoKraus: I’m just using it to write reports Apr 13 13:59
PetoKraus :) Apr 13 13:59
PetoKraus i cooked. Apr 13 13:59
DaemonFC Does Ext4 still need lost+found? Apr 13 13:59
schestowitz I’d rather take any other day Apr 13 13:59
DaemonFC XFS doesn’t have a lost+found directory Apr 13 14:00
DaemonFC must be an artifact of lesser file systems ;) Apr 13 14:00
trmanco I have no idea, I haven’t tried ext4 yet Apr 13 14:00
schestowitz PetoKraus: what’s next? Tidying up the house? Apr 13 14:00
PetoKraus :) that was before Apr 13 14:00
schestowitz Oh :-( Apr 13 14:00
trmanco argh, why does my new external hard drive come with Windows NTFS?geez Apr 13 14:01
PetoKraus it’s mess again. Had a visit… Apr 13 14:01
trmanco anybody know of a free filesystem that can be read by Windows Apr 13 14:01
schestowitz trmanco: to get you sued maybe Apr 13 14:01
schestowitz COmpanies like Seagate do this Apr 13 14:01
DaemonFC Yeah, they used to format them FAT32 Apr 13 14:01
trmanco schestowitz, simpletech external hard drive Apr 13 14:01
schestowitz Although my latest external HDD came unformatted. Apr 13 14:01
schestowitz Both are ext3 now Apr 13 14:01
DaemonFC why format them with anything? Apr 13 14:02
trmanco but if I put it in ext3, Windows won’t read it natively Apr 13 14:02
DaemonFC you just open yourself up to legal problems Apr 13 14:02
trmanco shitty winodws Apr 13 14:02
schestowitz It’s intentional Apr 13 14:02
schestowitz Microsoft seeds its garbage Apr 13 14:02
schestowitz Refuses to support other FSs Apr 13 14:02
schestowitz Pretends there is no need Apr 13 14:02
trmanco fat32 sucks,non free and has the 4 GB filesize limit Apr 13 14:02
schestowitz Then when the harvest it done and the patent ambush is over, it attacks Apr 13 14:03
DaemonFC FAT32 is just FAT16 with more clusters supported Apr 13 14:03
DaemonFC which is why cluster sizes can be smaller Apr 13 14:03
*PetoKraus has quit (Remote closed the connection) Apr 13 14:03
DaemonFC and FAT16 is an extension of FAT12 which was used on floppy disks and adapted for hard drives in the 80s Apr 13 14:04
iwmw we should expect fat64 Apr 13 14:04
iwmw or at least fat48 Apr 13 14:05
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DaemonFC http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/ja… Apr 13 14:06
DaemonFC really the FAT16 and FAT32 disk space limits were designed to make them obsolete Apr 13 14:07
DaemonFC FAT32 was the only real compelling reason to buy Windows 98 Apr 13 14:07
DaemonFC they turn a piece of crap into a wonderful new “feature” Apr 13 14:07
DaemonFC Microsoft had versions of Windows 95 that used FAT32 Apr 13 14:08
DaemonFC but they were OEM only Apr 13 14:08
DaemonFC B-) Apr 13 14:08
DaemonFC they didn’t dare release that as a free update although it would have been trivial Apr 13 14:09
DaemonFC cause then it wouldn’t be a feature of Windows 98 that you needed Apr 13 14:09
DaemonFC trmanco: Every printed copy of UNIX Haters Handbook came with a “UNIX Barf Bag” Apr 13 14:13
DaemonFC B-) Apr 13 14:13
trmanco :D Apr 13 14:15
*lis` (n=lis@pub212004088191.dh-hfc.datazug.ch) has joined #boycottnovell Apr 13 14:20
oiaohm Its taken all this time for most of the errors in Unix Haters to be bothered about being fixed Apr 13 14:25
oiaohm I follow the Linux kernel a lot trends of patches there have changed. Apr 13 14:26
oiaohm More and more patches are about reducing code. Apr 13 14:26
PetoKraus could anyone highlight me? Apr 13 14:27
DaemonFC oiaohm: More need to be about fixing bugs than “Do we have this new feature that totally shakes up the kernel  that 0.1% of our users might find mildly interesting?” Apr 13 14:29
DaemonFC I’ve noticed a tendency for them to just merge things cause they can Apr 13 14:30
DaemonFC and they need to go through and clean out things that have been deprecated for years Apr 13 14:31
DaemonFC especially if nothing uses them anymore Apr 13 14:31
oiaohm http://patchwork.kernel.org/patch/17749/ Apr 13 14:31
DaemonFC oh well, it’s not that big of a drag and you can always leave them out :P Apr 13 14:31
oiaohm No something different has started in the last 18 months. Apr 13 14:31
oiaohm True cleaning. Apr 13 14:32
DaemonFC but 1,000 options in menuconfig make your brain feel like swiss cheese Apr 13 14:32
DaemonFC when you’re done Apr 13 14:32
oiaohm Instead of just adding features merging them. Apr 13 14:32
iwmw lol 1k options Apr 13 14:32
iwmw do you set em all up? Apr 13 14:32
oiaohm proc dev … They all need to deallocated inodes.  So now generic framework. Apr 13 14:33
DaemonFC iwmw: Ubuntu does, most distros do Apr 13 14:33
oiaohm Before that freese and thaw in filesystems. Apr 13 14:33
oiaohm Lot of these merge duplicate code out. Apr 13 14:33
iwmw i mean do you set them all manually? Apr 13 14:33
DaemonFC a lot of stuff, yeah Apr 13 14:33
oiaohm You can choose to. Apr 13 14:33
DaemonFC I probably mess with 50-60 settings and then call it good Apr 13 14:34
DaemonFC iwmw: Do you want serial port support? Apr 13 14:37
DaemonFC Parallel port? Apr 13 14:37
DaemonFC OSS sound card drivers? Apr 13 14:37
oiaohm Remove the driver options list would get a lot shorter. Apr 13 14:37
DaemonFC game ports from 1994? Apr 13 14:37
iwmw for sure Apr 13 14:37
DaemonFC how about support for non-PC X86 machines from SGI? Apr 13 14:37
DaemonFC How about IBM Calgary? Apr 13 14:37
iwmw definitely needed Apr 13 14:37
DaemonFC you want microcode loading support for AMD & Intel even though you’re using one or the other Apr 13 14:38
iwmw they should write a script that compiles kernel for current machine Apr 13 14:38
DaemonFC I take it? Apr 13 14:38
oiaohm Not that simple iwmw Apr 13 14:39
DaemonFC I suppose you want the dozen touchscreen and dozen tablet drivers? Apr 13 14:39
iwmw wow, yeah Apr 13 14:39
DaemonFC the serial port mouse driver? Apr 13 14:39
iwmw especially if i don’t have to buy them Apr 13 14:39
DaemonFC Support for partitions from every OS there’s ever been? Apr 13 14:39
oiaohm For a portable disk having as many as able is good. Apr 13 14:39
oiaohm I find that partition support really handy for data recoveyr. Apr 13 14:39
DaemonFC two dozen RAID controllers you don’t have built into the kernel image? Apr 13 14:39
oiaohm No matter what strange stuff turns up. Apr 13 14:39
DaemonFC I could go on for an hour :P Apr 13 14:39
iwmw yeah, you could Apr 13 14:40
iwmw there are 1k more options to go Apr 13 14:40
oiaohm Never be stupid and set everything built into kernel. Apr 13 14:40
DaemonFC distributions do it Apr 13 14:40
oiaohm She will not even boot. Apr 13 14:40
iwmw who? Apr 13 14:40
oiaohm I mean no modules Apr 13 14:40
DaemonFC “LOOK! We turned _everything on_ SEE how COMPATIBLE we are?” *crings* Apr 13 14:40
oiaohm Everything linked into one huge bzImage Apr 13 14:40
oiaohm Its a poor gcc stress test I do from time to time. Apr 13 14:41
iwmw yeah, you can also check how your processor heats up at 100% load Apr 13 14:41
oiaohm Gcc is not that effective. Apr 13 14:42
oiaohm It gets no where near 100 percent load. Apr 13 14:42
trmanco 100% load is no problem here Apr 13 15:04
trmanco (heat) Apr 13 15:04
trmanco it’s 13ºC here and it won’t pass 40ºC at 100%, cpu temp has never been a problem of mine, it’s always cool Apr 13 15:05
trmanco I think it heats up more when there is about 60% usage, don’t know why Apr 13 15:06
iwmw because it doesn’t do throttling? Apr 13 15:06
trmanco http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=… Apr 13 15:10
trmanco iwmw, never does Apr 13 15:10
iwmw DaemonFC: how to turn warning messages in kernel to be visible Apr 13 15:11
iwmw like printk (KERN_WARN … Apr 13 15:11
iwmw or where are they logge Apr 13 15:11
iwmw d Apr 13 15:11
DaemonFC it’s under Kernel Hacking Apr 13 15:11
iwmw gonna check Apr 13 15:11
iwmw thanks Apr 13 15:12
iwmw may be now i will find out why it’s hanging on lcd driver Apr 13 15:14
*oiaohm has quit (Remote closed the connection) Apr 13 15:22
iwmw wow… it’s still compiling Apr 13 15:23
trmanco you should go through your config file again and remove the unnecessary configs :-P Apr 13 15:24
trmanco it takes a couple of compiles until it’s perfect :-P Apr 13 15:25
iwmw it’s kernel for dm357 board Apr 13 15:25
iwmw and i sometimes will have to make a default compiling Apr 13 15:25
trmanco I never tried a default compilation Apr 13 15:26
iwmw this one without def options can just hang up Apr 13 15:26
iwmw it’s kinda badly supported and all that stuff Apr 13 15:27
iwmw i just tried to switch video driver to another one Apr 13 15:27
iwmw that worked on dm355 Apr 13 15:27
iwmw and it hang up Apr 13 15:28
iwmw there’re no big differencies in video domain between them though Apr 13 15:28
iwmw where does the KERN_WARN info go? Apr 13 15:29
iwmw if not on screen Apr 13 15:29
iwmw (std output) Apr 13 15:29
DaemonFC schestowitz: Ubuntu is copying Microsoft SmudgeType Apr 13 15:33
DaemonFC and every file dialog is now in Glaucomavision Apr 13 15:33
DaemonFC :P Apr 13 15:33
iwmw what a strange name Apr 13 15:38
schestowitz Microsoft fonts are poor Apr 13 15:39
schestowitz They have text intersecting sometimes Apr 13 15:40
schestowitz Their typography people might be bad labour Apr 13 15:40
iwmw DaemonFC: how to view kern_warn messages after they are switched on in the kernel hacking? Apr 13 15:42
DaemonFC log viewer Apr 13 15:53
DaemonFC or in /var/log/kern Apr 13 15:54
iwmw heh… it doesn’t even come to that Apr 13 15:57
amarsh04 what I found strange was that the linux eata scsi driver (for DPT controllers) was broken from 2.6.23 until someone fixed it for me and it was merged just after 2.6.28 came out. Made me wonder how many other people still used DPT scsi controllers Apr 13 16:09
amarsh04 about 10 hours from reporting the bug on the linux-scsi list until I had a patch emailed back to me Apr 13 16:10
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  1. nobody said,

    April 14, 2009 at 4:34 am


    oiaohm, I agree with most of your technical arguments, however in the case of the Bible you’re wrong. This is the rough translation of John 6, 16-21 from the ancient greek original: In the evening, his students went to the sea, and, after boarding a ship, they were crossing the sea towards Kapernaum. Darkness already befell them and Jesus hadn’t joined them, and the wind was strong at sea. They had moved about 25 to 30 stadiums, when they saw Jesus walking on the water, approaching the ship, and they were frightened. He says to them: it is me, don’t be afraid. They wanted him to board the ship, shortly (εὐθέως) after that the ship reached the destination. Εὐθέως may mean immediately, shortly, without noteworthy events intervening. Your interpretation doesn’t make any sense (Jesus was with the students and walked on his own towards the destination and reached it before the ship, that was crossing the lake?).

    Regarding hell, it’s the translation of these greek words and phrases: γέεννα τοῦ πυρός, κόλαση, πῦρ καταναλίσκον, πῦρ ἄσβεστον, ὅπου ὁ σκώληξ αὐτῶν οὐ τελευτᾷ καὶ τὸ πῦρ οὐ σβέννυται, in the New Testament. Γέεννα (Gehenna, valey of Hinnom) is the place cursed by Josiah (Topheth), and place of punishment for people that have sinned, according to Jeremiah. It’s the place were death penalties were executed, and a garbage dump. Κόλαση means punishment, πῦρ καταναλίσκον means consuming flame, πῦρ ἄσβεστον, ὅπου ὁ σκώληξ αὐτῶν οὐ τελευτᾷ καὶ τὸ πῦρ οὐ σβέννυται is eternal flame, where their worm doesn’t die and the fire is never extinguished. From the last description it’s obvious that hell is a place like… hell, and the ones that live there have specific causes of suffering of their own. The description of hell as a place on fire is obviously a metaphor, as spirits aren’t physical objects (spirits have no flesh and bones, which you can see I have, says Christ after resurrection).

  2. oiaohm said,

    April 14, 2009 at 6:12 am


    Look at the historic garbage dumps they did basically burn day and night. Never extinguished. Only different in description is you don’t die from the fire instead stuck in it living. Modern day Hell description has other items added in. More correct wording would have been a ever burning garbage dump where you cannot die and you cannot leave.

    Of course executions were carried out at garbage dump. Perfect logic back then. The dead were also from time to time placed in the dumps from history. So why carry corpse when you can have person to be corpse walk there. Yes the modern day equal of executing someone to at there grave site.

    Hell should be historic garbage dump. Lot of extra meanings are lost due to the conversion.

    The other one “walking on the water” I really dig those sections out and went different translations of the words. There is also a problem its three accounts virtually the same. That normally never happens. Normally different words are used by different people views of events.

    I had dug into that section in ancient greek and cross referenced it words from the time of writing. Its like the word world. Different words change meanings over time. World in old text only equals as far as you can see if that. Everything has to be read in the timezone it owns to.

    If Jesus was beside water as one possible translation would make the following possible the boat had been driven by the storm back to the shore. Still a great event. Entering a boat and commanding a storm to stop. It is the true problem with savage storms means to steer a course can be lost. Basically punished for leaving without Jesus.

    This is the hard bit translation correct from very old texts has lot of issues. Complete meaning of the item can be flipped. Some sections like the walking on water should only be accepted as a possible translation other translations show a different problem and explain why the followers got treated like they did.

    It would have taken one hell of a storm to drive a boat back 25 to 30 stadiums.

    The problem with historic miss translations in documents they have the bad habit of nuking the means of reading other documents. Due to miss translation becoming believed.

    Now could I and the person I worked on this section with have made a translation error processing yes I am human so was he.

  3. nobody said,

    April 14, 2009 at 10:56 am


    I agree with you then, my understanding of hell is also an “ever burning garbage dump, where you cannot die and cannot leave”; speaking of spirits, this is the interpretation of the first Christians. The one-word translation to greek is κόλαση (kolasi), which means literally “punishment”. In my understanding, it’s like being in a state of constant agony, without any hope of ever being relieved of it.

    Regarding walking on water, one account by John is the one I mentioned earlier; the other one by Matthew includes an incident that John doesn’t describe: Peter asked Jesus to walk with him on the surface of the water. Matthew also includes more details about this miracle, and the weather conditions (John is considered the more spiritual of the Gospel writers).

    The excerpt concerning the miracle is this: θεωροῦσι τόν Ἰησοῦν περιπατοῦντα ἐπί τῆς θαλάσσης (word-for-word: [the students] watch Jesus walking on the sea). ἐπί means on, next to the sea is παρά τήν θάλασσαν, which appears in the text several times on different occasions. Maybe the translation to english lead to loss of context or clarity, however the original is perfectly clear in every description of the miracle.

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