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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: April 16th, 2009 - Part 2



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oiaohmLot of people have not got the idea that Linux has won the netbook battle.Apr 16 11:49
oiaohmLinux was not a good enough product to completley win.Apr 16 11:49
oiaohmSo the best move is make you competition kill themselves.Apr 16 11:50
zoobab01Linux is useful to get Windows OEM rebatesApr 16 11:50
zoobab01for netbook manufacturersApr 16 11:50
zer0c00lschestowitz, did you read http://linuxlock.blogspot.com/2009/...Apr 16 11:54
oiaohmWill be useful for nettop makers as well zoobab01Apr 16 11:57
oiaohmAnyone notice that netbooks are creeping up in size.Apr 16 11:57
schestowitzzer0c00l: I do a post about it ATMApr 16 11:57
oiaohmRemember there is a max size for a netbook/notebook that is easy to carry.Apr 16 11:57
schestowitzoiaohm: eventually they'll invent... the notebookApr 16 11:58
oiaohmIts more creeping up on the market.Apr 16 11:58
schestowitzAnd then say, "Wow!"... well, it's $900 and it has this thing called optical drive... and 14 inch screenApr 16 11:58
oiaohmSlow but surely all the lower end of the market is being taken over.Apr 16 11:59
schestowitzoiaohm: it was part of the planApr 16 11:59
schestowitzPricing upApr 16 11:59
schestowitzEnsuring people can't buy cheap Intel chipsApr 16 11:59
schestowitzPay premium onlyApr 16 11:59
taconelol: "Vista ?! this is bullshit. I'm homeless but I'm not retarded" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbJ...Apr 16 11:59
schestowitzBlkock the lower endApr 16 11:59
schestowitzBut ARM is comingApr 16 11:59
oiaohmProblem is everything netbook class MS really not making a licence profit from.Apr 16 12:00
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oiaohmMS though it would be sourced earth.Apr 16 12:04
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oiaohmDrop XP dirt cheep in the market so killing off Linux.  Not going to happen.Apr 16 12:04
DaemonFCmore people know XP and most companies don't do a good port, if any, of their Windows stuffApr 16 12:05
DaemonFCso you kind of get caught with WineApr 16 12:05
DaemonFCthat's the biggest problem facing LinuxApr 16 12:05
oiaohmNot really.Apr 16 12:05
oiaohmBiggest problem is people have lost the art of plaining OS migrations.Apr 16 12:05
DaemonFCWell, there are still entire classes of hardware where half or more of the devices have no Linux driverApr 16 12:06
DaemonFCTV cards are basically the new WinmodenApr 16 12:06
DaemonFC*WinmodemApr 16 12:06
oiaohmDone right the change over from Windows to Linux is almost no distruption.Apr 16 12:06
oiaohmWere Winmodems really a problem to well planed migrations.Apr 16 12:07
oiaohmNoApr 16 12:07
oiaohmIts lack of planing.Apr 16 12:07
DaemonFCno, but where Windows is right now, you have to convince people to stop using it on systems that existApr 16 12:07
schestowitzoiaohm: they devalue WindowsApr 16 12:07
DaemonFCmaybe they didn't even know what Linux is when they bought their PC?Apr 16 12:07
schestowitzThe issue is, if they give it free for sub-notebooks it won't kill Linux... AND...Apr 16 12:07
schestowitzThey also lead to people asking what they pay for anywayApr 16 12:07
schestowitzSooner or later people ask for free Windows upgradesApr 16 12:08
schestowitzYou can't give away lobstersApr 16 12:08
MinceRi'm asking for microsoft to dieApr 16 12:08
schestowitzPeople then treat them like SardinesApr 16 12:08
MinceRbut i didn't get it yet :(Apr 16 12:08
DaemonFCwell, the TV tuner card is a really cool device, the primary use of some peoples machinesApr 16 12:08
DaemonFCironically I caught up with a guy that used to make Linux drivers for the company that made my cardApr 16 12:08
oiaohmThere are a lot of TV tuners that do work.Apr 16 12:08
DaemonFChe said they were jsut about to work on one for my card when he got laid off :PApr 16 12:09
schestowitzDaemonFC: in the US it's hardApr 16 12:09
MinceRsadly they don't make any bt878 cards anymoreApr 16 12:09
schestowitzIn Brazil, for example not so muchApr 16 12:09
schestowitzEsp. in schoolsApr 16 12:09
schestowitzAll Brazilian schools move to LinuxApr 16 12:09
schestowitzRussian tooApr 16 12:09
MinceRit's all cx88 and saa-whatever crap nowApr 16 12:09
schestowitzThey don't have the same issues of TV cards and bureaucracyApr 16 12:09
DaemonFCwell, every other class of device went from hardly working to almost always working on LinuxApr 16 12:09
DaemonFCso I figure TV tuners are just in that phase where wifi was 5-6 years agoApr 16 12:10
oiaohmReally the importance will drop when TV tuners in video cards work.Apr 16 12:10
MinceRexcept if you go for a video card with a tuner you make compromisesApr 16 12:10
oiaohmSince video card can kinda kick the crap of cpu at compression.Apr 16 12:10
DaemonFCoh yeah, as soon as that takes off, Nvidia will have that on Linux with no troubleApr 16 12:10
DaemonFCthey have great driversApr 16 12:11
MinceRotoh DVB is coming to hungary and then it will be a lot simplerApr 16 12:11
taconeactually, Linux is where Mac was some year ago.Apr 16 12:12
MinceRinflexible, stupid, overpriced crap? :>Apr 16 12:12
schestowitzODF Turkey Launched < http://www.odfalliance.org/blog/ind... >Apr 16 12:12
oiaohmThink driver support MinceRApr 16 12:12
DaemonFCMincer, it has a tuner but that's not importantApr 16 12:12
taconeshipping an hardware piece without a proper linux driver will start to feel uncomfortable and  incompleteApr 16 12:12
DaemonFChalf the channels are encrypted and need the tuner box anywayApr 16 12:12
MinceRmac supported more architectures and hw than any other os some years ago?Apr 16 12:13
DaemonFCOS X should be as portable as any UNIX systemApr 16 12:13
MinceRshouldApr 16 12:13
MinceRit should also be FLOSSApr 16 12:13
DaemonFCmost of it isApr 16 12:13
MinceRand it should be a gnu/linux distroApr 16 12:13
oiaohmThird party parts MinceRApr 16 12:13
MinceRbut it isn'tApr 16 12:13
oiaohmOS X suports more now than then.Apr 16 12:14
MinceRit's a vile piece of crap hacked together mostly from BSDL-ed code they ripped off.Apr 16 12:14
MinceRwith a proprietary gui tacked on that was thrown together with no thoughts for users with more than a single brain cell.Apr 16 12:14
DaemonFCThe worst pat is their file systemApr 16 12:14
MinceRwell, they can use ZFS now for thatApr 16 12:15
MinceRand claim they invented the wheelApr 16 12:15
MinceR(the second part is very important)Apr 16 12:15
taconethey can't even mount xfs..Apr 16 12:15
taconenot even with 3rd party software.Apr 16 12:15
DaemonFCXFS on FreeBSD is experimental and the port is not done by SGIApr 16 12:16
DaemonFCso if you want to trust it, that's on youApr 16 12:16
DaemonFCthere's no guarantee their driver is as good as the ones in IRIX or LinuxApr 16 12:17
schestowitzCan anyone read this (Spanish)? http://www.informatica.gov.ec/index.ph...Apr 16 12:17
DaemonFCthe Linux port is fairly hackish in some places where they had to work around IRIX functionality that Linux doesn't haveApr 16 12:17
taconeschestowitz: let me seeApr 16 12:18
taconei can tryApr 16 12:18
schestowitzGoogle Translate doesn't shed much lightApr 16 12:18
oiaohmThey are getting to remove some of those hacks as Linux gets the funtionality too DaemonFCApr 16 12:18
taconeEcuatorian Insitute of Normalization INEN unanimously approved  the following technical rule (law?) about IT, with connotation of volountariety (?!)Apr 16 12:19
MinceRas if apple fanboys ever cared about reliability :>Apr 16 12:19
DaemonFCI actually kind of like XP in some ways, from the viewpoint of a userApr 16 12:19
DaemonFCbut Vista and 7 have done away with anything XP did rightApr 16 12:19
tacone(1) tecnology of information. Service management, part 1: specificationsApr 16 12:19
tacone2) ... part 2: code of good practicesApr 16 12:20
taconeOpen Document Format for office applications (Open Document)Apr 16 12:20
taconeSource: INEN, Resolution of the council. Act number 004-2009Apr 16 12:21
taconeschestowitz:  seems there's not much in that pageApr 16 12:21
DaemonFCschestowitz: It's now a crime in Texas for any state agency to buy VistaApr 16 12:22
DaemonFCunless approved by their state budget officeApr 16 12:22
DaemonFCand you have to tell them WHY you need it :PApr 16 12:22
schestowitztacone: thanks.Apr 16 12:22
schestowitzIt did seem void of statemenrsApr 16 12:22
schestowitzWhy are India and Texas married to Windows? http://boycottnovell.com/2009/04...Apr 16 12:23
_Hicham_Texas is George W. Bush, Bush is Microsoft Dependent, by transitivity Texas is married to WindowsApr 16 12:25
DaemonFCTexas is just insaneApr 16 12:26
DaemonFCthey always have beenApr 16 12:26
DaemonFCThere's a saying that Texas is too small to be a country and too big to be an insane asylumApr 16 12:26
DaemonFC:)Apr 16 12:26
DaemonFChmmmmmApr 16 12:28
DaemonFCJames Bond movieApr 16 12:28
DaemonFCknew there had to be something onApr 16 12:28
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DaemonFCheh, the cable TV actually looks worse on LCD hi def displays or computer monitorsApr 16 12:30
DaemonFCcause they're better than the signal :PApr 16 12:30
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MinceRindeedApr 16 12:31
zer0c00lhi ushimitsudokiApr 16 12:31
ushimitsudokihowdyApr 16 12:31
DaemonFChttp://www.camcorderinfo.com/con...Apr 16 12:32
DaemonFCI had one of thoseApr 16 12:32
DaemonFCit was a version 2 but there was actually no difference in the devices, just the bundled software :PApr 16 12:32
schestowitzJust in: In a Desert, TV-Browser is an EPG Oasis < http://www.freesoftwaremagazine.com/column... > "It is not often that you fail to find half a dozen free software programs to fill a particular niche -browsers, e-mail clients or file managers to name a few; so it was with both surprise and disappointment that I nearly drew a blank in my search for an Electronic Programme Guide (EPG) for GNU/Linux."Apr 16 12:35
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schestowitzGoblin is playing with the Microsoft Trolls: http://openbytes.wordpress.com/200...Apr 16 12:37
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schestowitzhttp://www.ibm.com/developer... The rsync familyApr 16 12:42
schestowitzI've not used rsync in a year or so (used to be daily)Apr 16 12:42
MinceRhttp://mobilitics.blogspot.com/20...Apr 16 12:43
schestowitzhttp://itmanagement.earthweb.com/entdev/a... "Software designers have endeavored to improve on the humble hourglass by adding Time Remaining display boxes. When you copy a large file, start a download, or task your computer with something important that needs to be done now, the computer will try to keep you dutifully informed by displaying Time Remaining. "Apr 16 12:44
zer0c00li use rsync atleast  once in  a month  :) its kind of admin thingApr 16 12:45
zer0c00lMinceR, many apps does that , i use operamini wap browser which also does like thatApr 16 12:48
zer0c00l*doApr 16 12:48
schestowitzBankruptcies in the UK on the uprise.. :-( http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_pi...Apr 16 12:50
schestowitzThere's a takeaway right by my house. Shut down like many othersApr 16 12:51
schestowitzThe thing is, nobody even takes their estateApr 16 12:51
schestowitzThey are just dead empty shops and owners of those properties can't sell them because there is no capital to start business.Apr 16 12:51
zer0c00lin gmail you could check your "last account activity" which shows the ip address which you recently used to check gmail..When i use operamini to check  gmail, gmail usually show one of the opera networks ip in last account activityApr 16 12:51
schestowitzRise of Free (libre) economics: YouTube orchestra makes its debut  < http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/am... >Apr 16 12:52
schestowitzzer0c00l: that's also common in hosting (e.g. cpanel) and online bankingApr 16 12:52
schestowitzIt keeps a breadcrumb trail.Apr 16 12:52
*zer0c00l wonders http://mobilitics.blogspot.com/200... how did he managed to find out?Apr 16 12:53
zer0c00lwireshark ?Apr 16 12:54
zer0c00lwireshark is for computers :PApr 16 12:54
zer0c00lhmm thats a GET requestApr 16 12:55
schestowitzDoes the UK believe that criminalising is encouraging productivity? http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/bus...Apr 16 12:55
schestowitzThe Forester shills attack FOSS with apparent lies nowApr 16 12:59
schestowitzThey claim that developers don't care about FOSS.Apr 16 12:59
schestowitzI very much doubt it. it's the same Forrester that attacked Linux at Microsoft's behest (and budget). Some leaked documents show IDC doing the same thing by choosing a population survey that is rigged (tilted towards Microsoft) by design.Apr 16 12:59
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Algyzso opensuse is evil?Apr 16 13:01
schestowitzNoApr 16 13:03
schestowitzNot the communityApr 16 13:04
schestowitzOpenSUSE contains some innocenceApr 16 13:04
schestowitzAnd some people just thinking about their wagesApr 16 13:04
oiaohmMost of the innocence has been jumping ship.Apr 16 13:05
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trmancoUbuntu 9.04 RC hasn't bee released yet :(Apr 16 13:06
schestowitzProgress for ODF in Ecuador and Turkey: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/04/16...Apr 16 13:12
schestowitzDarwin award? Flying laptop kills driver: http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/ne...Apr 16 13:14
schestowitzLogitech has a $500 mouse now... does the panel use embedded Linux like their keyboard? http://www.3dconnexion.com/spp/index.phpApr 16 13:16
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oiaohmschestowitz: Flying laptop not rare enough to get Darwin award.Apr 16 13:17
oiaohmDeath by laptop or other large object on back seat is common.Apr 16 13:17
oiaohmYes really common.Apr 16 13:17
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schestowitzWindows sort of leave Linux vulnerable now, thanks to Microsoft lackeys who run VMware... http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/... ( Windows is the key to hacking another OS )Apr 16 13:18
schestowitzDHS must ban laptops now.Apr 16 13:19
schestowitzWeapons of Man Destruction...Apr 16 13:20
oiaohmhttp://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/n...  << Yep wonder what he was working on.Apr 16 13:22
oiaohmNot really vmware in that case was flawed you could hack windows from linux contained in vmware too schestowitzApr 16 13:24
oiaohmIts a little bit like the firewire ports that can read and edit anywhere in memory.Apr 16 13:24
schestowitzhttp://www.boston.com/news/nation/a... (Anti-tax protesters turn out for tax day) All these years of reducing tax and increasing expenses are well over. There's debt now.Apr 16 13:25
schestowitzoiaohm: it's an exploding PC: http://www.tomsguide.com/us/PC-Exploding-...Apr 16 13:27
trmancohaha, gnote has moved to gnomeApr 16 13:27
schestowitzThe suggestion that spontaneously combustion can be so severe is fictitious I thinkApr 16 13:27
schestowitzBut it's the InquirerApr 16 13:27
schestowitz*spontaneous combustionApr 16 13:27
schestowitzhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sp... "Spontaneous combustion is a type of combustion which occurs without an external ignition source."Apr 16 13:28
schestowitzThe original report says the PC explodedApr 16 13:28
schestowitztrmanco: ayeApr 16 13:28
schestowitzBut it was in GMOME space before, no?Apr 16 13:28
schestowitzIt's just good to see it in opensuse planetApr 16 13:29
trmancoschestowitz, yeah, what I'm saying is that gnote has been announced in the gnome ftp mailing listApr 16 13:29
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schestowitzI c....Apr 16 13:30
trmancoGNOME will be moving to GIT tomorrowApr 16 13:32
schestowitzRecession? what recession? Nokia's profits dive 90 per cent < http://www.theregister.co.uk/20... >. They woke up to Linux too late.Apr 16 13:33
schestowitztrmanco: yes, I heardApr 16 13:33
schestowitzBTW, did I piss off the Munchkins yesterday by posting a lot in COLA?Apr 16 13:33
schestowitzSymbian show struggles for identity < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009... >. Symbian is not really Free software.. DRM... software patents...Apr 16 13:35
DaemonFChmmmmApr 16 13:35
DaemonFCthe Deskjet 2500 supports XP x64Apr 16 13:36
DaemonFCthat's odd for a $40 printerApr 16 13:36
schestowitzMicrosoft is still delaying and delaying EU probe to allow itself to carry on cheating. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/04...Apr 16 13:37
DaemonFClmaoApr 16 13:37
schestowitztrmanco: I see you're buddied with SJVNApr 16 13:37
DaemonFChow is a cable half as much as the printer?Apr 16 13:37
schestowitzPrinters are scamApr 16 13:37
schestowitzThey should be banned like plasma TVsApr 16 13:37
trmancoschestowitz, that was his time he replied to meApr 16 13:37
schestowitzTo encourage people to work electronically and save treesApr 16 13:38
schestowitzAlso, printers are a marketing scamApr 16 13:38
schestowitzThe average Joe is too dumb to realise why the printers and sold at a lossApr 16 13:38
DaemonFCyeah, the printer will be like $30 but then the CORD is $20 and it's $30-40 every time you need ink :PApr 16 13:38
schestowitzSometimes it's cheaper to buy a printer and throw it away when it runs out of inkApr 16 13:38
schestowitzThen buy another printerApr 16 13:38
schestowitzSame with razorsApr 16 13:38
DaemonFClmaoApr 16 13:39
schestowitzThat's the AmericanWay(C)Apr 16 13:39
schestowitzIt's only $9.99Apr 16 13:39
DaemonFCthrow the printer away cause a new cartridge is the same priceApr 16 13:39
DaemonFCthat's funnyApr 16 13:39
schestowitzit's trueApr 16 13:39
schestowitzThere's a comparison between the prices of things like ink, blood, oil, mercury...Apr 16 13:40
schestowitzI can't begin to think where to find this chart right now.Apr 16 13:40
schestowitzThe scarcity is preserved by adding complexity and forbid refills.Apr 16 13:40
schestowitzSome companies that try refills of some sort get suedApr 16 13:40
schestowitzIt's exceptionally hard for the manufacturers to find what to sue them FORApr 16 13:41
schestowitzWhich is aleways hilariousApr 16 13:41
schestowitzLike using DMCA to impose censorshipApr 16 13:41
oiaohmI have had the case where its cheeper to buy the printer than new cartridge for it.Apr 16 13:41
schestowitzSome printers come with cartridges half fullApr 16 13:41
schestowitzTo prevent thisApr 16 13:41
schestowitzConsumers could probbably sue such companiesApr 16 13:41
oiaohmIt was 20 dollars cheeper for the printer.Apr 16 13:41
schestowitzBut the companies have lawyers to defend themselvesApr 16 13:42
schestowitzThe US juridical system works in such a way that those who can afford more motions winApr 16 13:42
DaemonFCyeah, they don't have to winApr 16 13:42
oiaohmNot in this case.Apr 16 13:42
schestowitzA friend of mine whose a Bay Are lawyers says thisApr 16 13:42
schestowitz*AreaApr 16 13:42
DaemonFCthey jsut have to have their lawyers stall you outApr 16 13:42
DaemonFCtil you're brokeApr 16 13:42
schestowitz"Vista capable"Apr 16 13:42
oiaohmHalf full cartridges break fair trading laws here.Apr 16 13:42
schestowitzSCO is similarApr 16 13:42
schestowitzOver 5 years now?Apr 16 13:42
schestowitzKeep the FUD in factApr 16 13:43
schestowitzDoesn't matter what outcomeApr 16 13:43
oiaohmFair trading you don't need lawyers.Apr 16 13:43
schestowitzMicrosoft keeps using the Didiot puppet  to use SCO as a riskApr 16 13:43
oiaohmAustralian system handles breaches of fair trading better.Apr 16 13:43
oiaohmIts not a court system.Apr 16 13:44
schestowitzAustralia is no model, stillApr 16 13:44
oiaohmIts a regulator.Apr 16 13:44
schestowitzMaybe Germany isApr 16 13:44
schestowitzThey fines Microsoft and SCOApr 16 13:44
schestowitzFor collusion and slanderApr 16 13:44
schestowitz*finedApr 16 13:44
DaemonFCschestowitz: THat only hurts the customersApr 16 13:44
DaemonFCand I have a suspicion it's not even why Microsoft is being finedApr 16 13:44
DaemonFCI figure they're a foreign company and the EU wants moneyApr 16 13:45
DaemonFCso they take itApr 16 13:45
schestowitzNopeApr 16 13:45
schestowitzThey compete unfairlyApr 16 13:45
schestowitzThey also colludeApr 16 13:45
oiaohmEU courts attack there own as well.Apr 16 13:45
DaemonFCyou'd never see the EU go after one of their own companies like thisApr 16 13:45
schestowitzThey could pick other cvictims, sureApr 16 13:45
oiaohmThey do.Apr 16 13:45
schestowitzBut they choose Microsoft because of scaleApr 16 13:45
DaemonFCif Microsoft was in Europe, the situation would be tthe EU does nothing and the US fines themApr 16 13:45
oiaohmMost EU companies are not stupid enough to mess with them.Apr 16 13:45
schestowitzAnd because there is lots more to scrutinise overApr 16 13:45
oiaohmLast few EU companies that did got completely broken up.Apr 16 13:46
schestowitzMicrosoft is like a complex mafiaApr 16 13:46
schestowitzYou can't knock it all downApr 16 13:46
schestowitzit's disributedApr 16 13:46
schestowitzSo you find individual peopleApr 16 13:46
schestowitzand arrest themApr 16 13:46
schestowitzOr find specific crimesApr 16 13:46
schestowitzAnd then deal with them in turnApr 16 13:46
oiaohmSo EU companies think twice before doing stunts that MS did.Apr 16 13:46
DaemonFCthey still fined Microsoft for some ridiculous things that every OS doesApr 16 13:46
schestowitzThe mafia stays nonethelessApr 16 13:46
DaemonFCYou're telling me iTunes and Safari are not "integrated" into a Mac?Apr 16 13:46
oiaohmWhat do you mean every OS does.Apr 16 13:47
schestowitzDaemonFC: what? MSO price-fixing?Apr 16 13:47
schestowitzNot an OS thingApr 16 13:47
schestowitzPrevention of competitiopnApr 16 13:47
DaemonFCno, I'm saying they should fine Apple tooApr 16 13:47
schestowitzConspiring against consumersApr 16 13:47
oiaohmiTunes and Safari are avalible for windows.Apr 16 13:47
schestowitzAnd also against compeitionApr 16 13:47
DaemonFCit's even been proven that Safari used undocumented APIsApr 16 13:47
schestowitzusing an illegally-obtained monopolyApr 16 13:47
DaemonFCand Mozilla had to reverse engineer themApr 16 13:47
oiaohmSo where is windows media player on MacApr 16 13:47
schestowitzThey commited crimes against WordPerfectApr 16 13:47
schestowitzNew document on Microsoft's crimes: http://www.ecis.eu/documents/Fina...Apr 16 13:48
schestowitzCovers WP tooApr 16 13:48
DaemonFCI still say that Apple got away with using undocumented APIs to cripple other web browsersApr 16 13:48
DaemonFCif Microsoft did that and other browsers started staggering and crashing, it wouldn't go unnoticedApr 16 13:48
zoobab01Roy, do you know if this is a valid english question:Apr 16 13:49
zoobab01the first queston of BrimelowApr 16 13:49
DaemonFCthere was a Mozilla dev that was detailing just one way Apple crippled themApr 16 13:49
DaemonFCby using an undocumented API that let Safari interface with Quartz much more smoothlyApr 16 13:49
DaemonFCand forcing Mozilla to use the documented method which was much slowerApr 16 13:50
schestowitzZamzar added ODF support. http://www.schoollibraryjournal.... "Get on Zamzar’s Web site and start adding all the YouTube videos you want. With Zamzar in your toolbelt, you can flip your .avi files to flash videos (.flv). Those .odt (Open Document) files can easily be morphed into .doc files too. Still have a dinosaur with their syllabi in WordPerfect? Zamzar can help with that, too."Apr 16 13:51
schestowitzWhen will Apple support ODF?Apr 16 13:51
DaemonFCschestowitz: Apple is far worse than MicrosoftApr 16 13:51
DaemonFCthey just have better PRApr 16 13:51
trmancobbl, I'll be upgradingApr 16 13:51
trmanco:-PApr 16 13:51
oiaohmApple is not worse than MS.Apr 16 13:52
DaemonFCApple crippled Mozilla Firefox on OS XApr 16 13:52
oiaohmBoth are trying to do exactly the same things.Apr 16 13:52
oiaohmIE on windows uses undocumented features too.Apr 16 13:52
DaemonFCMicrosoft told Mozilla how to make it work better on WindowsApr 16 13:52
schestowitzBoth are irrelevantApr 16 13:52
schestowitzLong term, Apple may have some followingApr 16 13:52
*trmanco has quit ("ERROR: crap-talking overflow - Aborting")Apr 16 13:52
schestowitzBut they are scared of LinuxApr 16 13:52
schestowitzThey don't have enough engineersApr 16 13:52
DaemonFCApple would just be another MicrosoftApr 16 13:52
schestowitzAnd they fire employees alreadyApr 16 13:52
schestowitzTheir fianncial results too are negativeApr 16 13:53
schestowitzAnd they have no Jobs (mind case)Apr 16 13:53
schestowitzLinux has LOADS more devs than AppleApr 16 13:53
schestowitzAnd it showsApr 16 13:53
DaemonFCwell, when the economy goes bad, everyone tries to make things last longerApr 16 13:53
schestowitzAndroid challenges jusesPhone/HypePhone on priceApr 16 13:53
DaemonFCthat goes from just some guy using XPApr 16 13:53
schestowitz*jesusphoneApr 16 13:53
DaemonFCto big corporations that skip Vista on thousands of PCsApr 16 13:53
DaemonFCMicrosoft is doing poorly because Windows is far too expensive to jsutify if the one you have worksApr 16 13:54
schestowitzzoobab01: which question? EBoA?Apr 16 13:54
schestowitzzoobab01: the questions were kind of weirdApr 16 13:54
oiaohmhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?...  This on of IBM I have always loved.Apr 16 13:54
schestowitzNot that I want to say it; they just wereApr 16 13:54
oiaohmon/oneApr 16 13:54
DaemonFCand becauseand even if you could go out and buy the upgrade, it probably won't run well or at all without new hardwareApr 16 13:55
DaemonFCso they have two problems, I'd say the slow and bloated part is hurting them worseApr 16 13:55
zer0c00lBJP’s national IT cell convener, Pradyut Bora, said: “This should be asked to the state government. But, policies can always change.”  morons  http://www.expressindia.com/latest-new...Apr 16 13:56
schestowitzzer0c00l: pretenders?Apr 16 13:57
schestowitzMaybe the publicity stuntApr 16 13:57
zer0c00lschestowitz, yesApr 16 13:57
DaemonFCschestowitz: Avermedia's media center is far better than Microsoft's, hehApr 16 13:57
DaemonFCit does not respect the "broadcast flag"Apr 16 13:58
zer0c00lschestowitz, the party supported patents in the pastApr 16 13:58
schestowitzTwo possibilities: 1) bargaining with Microsoft by playing hard to get; 2) election stunts for voters (like in Brazil)Apr 16 13:58
schestowitzzer0c00l: haApr 16 13:58
schestowitzFlip-floppersApr 16 13:58
schestowitzKeeping pressure of them is importantApr 16 13:58
schestowitzWords are not contractApr 16 13:59
schestowitzSame with PDF 'prospectus'Apr 16 13:59
DaemonFCschestowitz: I think I'll skip the printer and jsut email anything I need to print to myself and print it out at the library :PApr 16 13:59
schestowitzIt's nothing you can legally use to say they lied or violated faith when Orlando Ayala and his Dumping Mafia bribes BJPApr 16 13:59
zer0c00lschestowitz, did you read http://www.hindu.com/2009/04/10/s... that same partyApr 16 13:59
zer0c00l*article on that same partyApr 16 13:59
zer0c00lBJP -- a party that promotes hatred and violence in the name of religion in indiaApr 16 14:00
zer0c00l Orlando Ayala?Apr 16 14:00
schestowitzzer0c00l: I'll post it laterApr 16 14:01
zer0c00lschestowitz, okApr 16 14:01
schestowitzOrlando Ayala = Microsoft's anti-Linux dumperApr 16 14:01
schestowitzHe also attacked OLPC with his cheap cigarettesApr 16 14:02
schestowitzThey wanted to kill OLPC, they got itApr 16 14:02
schestowitzNo Sugar, no public support anymoreApr 16 14:02
schestowitzSearch BN for his name. We have plentyApr 16 14:02
schestowitzHmmmm.... weird new 'article'... GNU Free Documentation License < http://www.sueddeutsche.de/sonst... >Apr 16 14:04
AlgyzBut really for average user it seems nearly impossible for m$ to bankrupt :)Apr 16 14:05
schestowitzBecayse of brainwashApr 16 14:06
schestowitzMicrosoft did not buy so many media companies for nothingApr 16 14:06
schestowitzThey have already been publicly accused of spreading illusions of grandeur and vilifying those who contradictApr 16 14:07
schestowitzAlgyz: let me cite, for WIWApr 16 14:07
*rofrol (n=rofrol@1.pia.airbites.pl) has joined #boycottnovellApr 16 14:08
schestowitzhttp://billparish.com/msftfraudfacts.html "8) Managing the financial analyst community.  Another excellent earnings management technique is the management of the analyst community.  This can be done by directing investment banking business associated with acquisitions to a variety of firms based upon their opinion of the stock. "Apr 16 14:08
schestowitz"Microsoft purchased more than 33 companies in 1998. A good example here might be Rick Sherlund of Goldman Sachs, often noted as the guy who can move tech stocks.  "Apr 16 14:09
schestowitz"One might ask why Mr. Sherlund refers to Microsoft as a company with no debt when they clearly have a contractual obligation, just as real as today’s stock price, of $60 billion to their employees. "Apr 16 14:09
schestowitz"5) Controlling the media. After issuing several press releases on PR Newswire, Microsoft told the service to stop issuing my press releases.  Microsoft is PR Newswire's largest client. PR Newswire is owned by Miller Freeman of the UK,  a large media company.."Apr 16 14:09
AlgyzNot so much usable OS's here, actually Linux is competitor, I'm happy with it, but lots of miseducated (by somehow, guess who) people imagining it like something unknowkn, causing lots of problems, etc..Apr 16 14:09
schestowitz"that publishes many computer related publications including Information Week in addition to Microsoft focused journals such as the Windows System Developer. Miller Freeman does indeed function as if it were a department of Microsoft itself. "Apr 16 14:09
schestowitzAlgyz: it's all in perceptionApr 16 14:10
schestowitzSame with many things, including "world is flat", "Iraq caused 9/11" etc.Apr 16 14:10
Algyz:-DApr 16 14:10
Algyzred hat ad :-DApr 16 14:10
Algyzworld is flatApr 16 14:10
AlgyzI like itApr 16 14:11
AlgyzFor me actually ubuntu is ze best, although lots of people aren't very happy with this distroApr 16 14:11
schestowitzOh, I forgot about the Red Hat adApr 16 14:12
schestowitzFor servers, GNU/Linux is greatApr 16 14:12
schestowitzCentOS and debian tooApr 16 14:12
AlgyzHave you seen it?Apr 16 14:12
schestowitzBut Red Hat is the known brandApr 16 14:12
schestowitzAlgyz: yesApr 16 14:12
AlgyzyoutubeApr 16 14:13
DaemonFCRed Hat does a lot of good stuffApr 16 14:13
schestowitzhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2...Apr 16 14:13
DaemonFCthey're behind the native posix threads library tooApr 16 14:13
schestowitzThey have a new virt programmeApr 16 14:13
DaemonFCso thank them we're not using the old broken linuxthreads B-)Apr 16 14:13
schestowitzTo replace those that Mcirosoft bought ot corruptedApr 16 14:13
schestowitzInclude vmware and xenApr 16 14:13
schestowitz*includingApr 16 14:13
DaemonFCVirtual PC sucksApr 16 14:13
schestowitzHyped up stuffApr 16 14:14
*rofrol has quit ("Leaving")Apr 16 14:14
DaemonFCabout the only think it can properly virtualize is WindowsApr 16 14:14
oiaohmksm is also about helping kvm.Apr 16 14:14
schestowitz"Saving electricity" and other nonsenseApr 16 14:14
schestowitzThey hype it up dangerously in the pressApr 16 14:14
Algyznovell also writing lots of kernel :SApr 16 14:14
Algyzlike 10 pcApr 16 14:14
DaemonFCVirtual Box is better than Virtual PC on their own OSApr 16 14:14
DaemonFC:PApr 16 14:14
schestowitzAs though you lose if you don't virtualiseApr 16 14:14
schestowitzOnly 9% of servers were virtualise a while agoApr 16 14:14
schestowitzMicrosoft wants to use adoption to lock Linux outApr 16 14:14
DaemonFCI think Microsoft knows it's going to have to be in on the Linux revenueApr 16 14:15
DaemonFCif it wants to stay relevantApr 16 14:15
oiaohmKVM can run Hyber-V inside.Apr 16 14:15
oiaohmyep hybervisor inside hypervisor support.Apr 16 14:15
schestowitzDaemonFC: that's why it poisons like via NovellApr 16 14:18
schestowitzNovell does not mind because Microsoft pumps money into it to do soApr 16 14:18
schestowitzWikipedians to vote on Creative Commons license adoption  < http://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/20... >. Why change when something works fine?Apr 16 14:22
oiaohmMS knew Linux would not be ready for years.Apr 16 14:23
oiaohmNever allowed on the fact the Linux would cause them to fight themselves.Apr 16 14:23
oiaohmNetbook market causes a boost in number of developers working on the desktop side.Apr 16 14:24
schestowitzFor Linux?Apr 16 14:24
schestowitzThat would be true, BUT...Apr 16 14:25
schestowitzThere's a cost to MicrosoftApr 16 14:25
schestowitzTheir profitsApr 16 14:25
schestowitzReport due soon.Apr 16 14:25
schestowitzThey'll cook the books, but I'll look deeperApr 16 14:25
oiaohm2014 is when MS prediced Linux would be come a problem.Apr 16 14:26
oiaohmSo 2012 change to .net would have been perfect.Apr 16 14:26
oiaohmAs with all time tables not everything goes to plan.Apr 16 14:26
schestowitzLinux keeps running on anything from big to small: http://www.linuxdevices.com/ne...Apr 16 14:26
oiaohmhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWJ...  Now that is a good selection of music.   Now that would be warped if the installer played music.Apr 16 14:27
oiaohmYes redhat 5 installing min in 10 mins.Apr 16 14:27
schestowitzNew Glade is released (GTK GUIs): http://ftp.gnome.org/pub/GNOME...Apr 16 14:30
schestowitzoiaohm: can do cluster-install tooApr 16 14:31
schestowitzSeen it happen in our departmentApr 16 14:31
*iwmw (n=iwmw@intech.natm.ru) has joined #boycottnovellApr 16 14:31
oiaohmI have done debain cluster installs as well.Apr 16 14:32
oiaohmits mostly just the right software.Apr 16 14:32
schestowitzhttp://www.webpronews.com/topnews/20... (YouTube A Breeding Ground For Ponzi Schemes)Apr 16 14:35
schestowitzMentioned yesterday: Amazon Says No To Phorm Tracking < http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/20... > Phorm was sued, but it's part of a malicious cabal (in this case) that includes BT and the UK govt.Apr 16 14:36
schestowitzGoogle/Yahoo could make a fortunate selling people's profilesApr 16 14:37
schestowitzSweden targets strippers for tax < http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wor... >Apr 16 14:39
iwmwgoogle at least is allowed to do thatApr 16 14:39
iwmwas good as i remember google can sell almost anything about you while it makes money for themApr 16 14:40
schestowitzIn the news: http://www.expressindia.com/latest-news... http://ostatic.com/blog/why-isnt-op... Considering all that MOU nonsense (and EDGI) which is arguably against the law, I think one point should mentioned the police/authorities. White-collar crime is part of the problem here and being all nice and cute about it won't resolve the probleApr 16 14:43
schestowitzm.Apr 16 14:43
schestowitziwmw: why is Google allowed?Apr 16 14:43
schestowitzIt has the best profiles probablyApr 16 14:44
schestowitzThe most intrusiveApr 16 14:44
iwmwyeah... about almost all of your interests and your login/passwords to other sites occasionallyApr 16 14:45
iwmwyeah, chats also and people connectedApr 16 14:46
iwmwyeah, and it's allowed just because government loves to know such kind of infoApr 16 14:47
iwmwso it can has anyone's ass immediately as it needs itApr 16 14:49
schestowitzyesApr 16 14:49
schestowitzsame with phormApr 16 14:50
schestowitzPhorm essentially goes BEYOND ISP retention and also parses the info and organises it at the expense of non-public fund.Apr 16 14:50
schestowitzzoobab01: http://blogs.fsfe.org/greve/?p=321Apr 16 14:53
schestowitzzoobab01: what's up with Digistan? http://www.digistan.org/aboutApr 16 14:55
schestowitzOpenBSD: Check out my Xfce desktop < http://insidesocal.com/click/2009/04/ope... >Apr 16 15:01
schestowitzSun Said to Be Willing to Talk If IBM Eases on Terms < http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p... >Apr 16 15:02
*DaemonFC has quit ("Leaving")Apr 16 15:04
schestowitzOk, I'm heading offApr 16 15:04
*trmanco (n=trmanco@bl8-234-140.dsl.telepac.pt) has joined #boycottnovellApr 16 15:35
trmanco:)Apr 16 15:36
*oiaohm has quit (Remote closed the connection)Apr 16 15:48
*DaemonFC (n=Ryan@c-67-173-86-85.hsd1.il.comcast.net) has joined #boycottnovellApr 16 15:51
*balzac is now known as paulgaskinApr 16 16:14
*trmanco has quit ("ERROR: crap-talking overflow - Aborting")Apr 16 16:17
*trmanco (n=trmanco@bl8-234-140.dsl.telepac.pt) has joined #boycottnovellApr 16 16:21
trmancoupgrade went flawless :DApr 16 16:31
Balroghello everyoneApr 16 16:46
*paulgaskin is now known as balzacApr 16 16:52
*zer0c00l has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))Apr 16 16:59
trmancohello BalrogApr 16 17:02
trmancooopsApr 16 17:02
trmancooh yeah, I got it rightApr 16 17:02
Balrogyes.Apr 16 17:04
Balroganything new of importance, other than the general realization the MS is spreading more and more FUD and propaganda??Apr 16 17:04
trmancoI have no idea for today, I've been upgrading my Linux boxApr 16 17:07
BalrogI see.Apr 16 17:09
schestowitztrmanco: 9.04?Apr 16 17:14
trmancoschestowitz, yesApr 16 17:15
trmancoRCApr 16 17:15
*schestowitz sets mode -e schestowitzApr 16 17:15
*You are now known as agent904Apr 16 17:15
trmancolooolApr 16 17:15
trmancoI like the notification systemApr 16 17:15
*You are now known as schestowitzApr 16 17:15
*services. sets mode +e schestowitzApr 16 17:15
trmancobut still lacks some functionality and configurationApr 16 17:16
trmancoI has a new shiny usplash and gdm themeApr 16 17:17
trmancoit nwo includes Epiphany for some reasonApr 16 17:21
trmanconow*Apr 16 17:21
schestowitzHow much do you know about MS and DHS (and BSA?Apr 16 17:21
schestowitzI just got this:Apr 16 17:22
schestowitz"You've probably already seen this, but reading it almost made me throw up (yes, absolutely a puke/barf/gag moment). Figured I'd better send it along to you, just in case you hadn't seen it yet. This part made me laugh...between gagging spells (nope, not a pretty sight)..."Apr 16 17:22
schestowitz"To try to help public safety agencies, Microsoft announced Citizen Safety Architecture, an umbrella under which it will market its existing products and those of partners for use by public safety organizations." http://www.pcworld.com/article/163183...Apr 16 17:22
schestowitzhttp://boycottnovell.com/2009/03/12...Apr 16 17:22
*iwmw has quit ("Leaving")Apr 16 17:22
schestowitzhttp://boycottnovell.com/2009/03/1... http://boycottnovell.com/2009/04/0... This is becoming unnerving. Microsoft is pushing its fist up the wrong places now.Apr 16 17:23
schestowitz$USA_Government.PromoteDemocracy();Apr 16 17:23
schestowitz##ERROR: function/method 'PromoteDemocracy()' deprecated, try 'Invade()' insteadApr 16 17:24
schestowitzMicrosoft.PromoteWindows();Apr 16 17:24
trmancohahaApr 16 17:24
schestowitz##ERROR: not  enough croniesApr 16 17:24
schestowitzMicrosoft.InvadeDHS();Apr 16 17:24
schestowitzMicrosoft.PromoteWindows();Apr 16 17:25
schestowitzPASSWORD:Apr 16 17:25
schestowitzerror. try again.Apr 16 17:25
schestowitzPASSWORD:Apr 16 17:25
schestowitzerror. try again.Apr 16 17:25
schestowitzPASSWORD:Apr 16 17:25
schestowitzC:\>Apr 16 17:25
schestowitzWha?!!?Apr 16 17:25
schestowitzSudo !!Apr 16 17:25
schestowitzhttp://boycottnovell.com/2009/03...Apr 16 17:27
trmancoMozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.9.0.8) Gecko/2009033100 Ubuntu/9.04 (jaunty) Firefox/3.0.8Apr 16 17:28
trmanco:DApr 16 17:28
schestowitzhttp://boycottnovell.com/2009/03/16/ms-... An Influential Meal at UbuntuApr 16 17:32
schestowitzhttp://www.yumsugar.com/3035406Apr 16 17:32
trmancowow, an Ubuntu restaurantApr 16 17:34
schestowitzhttp://www.h-online.com/open/Vulne...Apr 16 17:36
schestowitztrmanco: yes, it's also to do with basketballApr 16 17:37
schestowitzI syndicate those termsApr 16 17:37
schestowitzGNU is lots of news in AfricaApr 16 17:37
trmancoudevApr 16 17:38
trmancoI received a security update yesterday for it (Intrepid)Apr 16 17:38
schestowitzit comes with lots of swApr 16 17:41
schestowitz+reposApr 16 17:41
schestowitzbrbApr 16 17:41
DaemonFCschestowitz: Writing a brief postApr 16 17:44
DaemonFCabout IE 8's weak crypto if you run it on XP or 2003Apr 16 17:45
trmancowha? weak crypto? how do you know that?Apr 16 17:49
DaemonFCcause they decided not to update cipher strength unless you buy Windows 7 or VistaApr 16 17:51
trmancohaha, another way to make money -> credit: MSApr 16 17:54
DaemonFCschestowitz: http://izanbardprince.wordpress.com/2...Apr 16 18:01
trmancohttp://git.gnome.org/cgit/ <- :DApr 16 18:02
DaemonFClooks liek Safari 4 has native widgetsApr 16 18:02
DaemonFCfor XP and Vista usersApr 16 18:02
schestowitzI think Larry Lessig should really comment on what Obama is doing appointing RIAA lawyers, which may be Biden's fault.Apr 16 18:06
schestowitzOnline-Only Newspapers Face Uphill Battle < http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2... > Translation: they're dying, unless the public funds them.Apr 16 18:07
schestowitzDaemonFC: consequences of bad security: Conficker likely to cause rise in spam levels  < http://www.itwire.com/con... >Apr 16 18:09
schestowitzBTW I liked to that Vista7 post yesterdayApr 16 18:09
DaemonFCI noticed the pingbackApr 16 18:09
schestowitzSpreading love to family and friends: http://news.softpedia.com/news/Ubuntu... (Ubuntu 9.04 Free CDs: Orders Are Taken Now)Apr 16 18:10
schestowitzhttp://triangle.bizjournals.com/tri... "Chairman Szulik sells 55,000 Red Hat shares"Apr 16 18:16


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