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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: April 16th, 2009 – Part 2

Posted in IRC Logs at 3:15 am by Dr. Roy Schestowitz


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oiaohm Lot of people have not got the idea that Linux has won the netbook battle. Apr 16 11:49
oiaohm Linux was not a good enough product to completley win. Apr 16 11:49
oiaohm So the best move is make you competition kill themselves. Apr 16 11:50
zoobab01 Linux is useful to get Windows OEM rebates Apr 16 11:50
zoobab01 for netbook manufacturers Apr 16 11:50
zer0c00l schestowitz, did you read http://linuxlock.blogspot.com/2009/… Apr 16 11:54
oiaohm Will be useful for nettop makers as well zoobab01 Apr 16 11:57
oiaohm Anyone notice that netbooks are creeping up in size. Apr 16 11:57
schestowitz zer0c00l: I do a post about it ATM Apr 16 11:57
oiaohm Remember there is a max size for a netbook/notebook that is easy to carry. Apr 16 11:57
schestowitz oiaohm: eventually they’ll invent… the notebook Apr 16 11:58
oiaohm Its more creeping up on the market. Apr 16 11:58
schestowitz And then say, “Wow!”… well, it’s $900 and it has this thing called optical drive… and 14 inch screen Apr 16 11:58
oiaohm Slow but surely all the lower end of the market is being taken over. Apr 16 11:59
schestowitz oiaohm: it was part of the plan Apr 16 11:59
schestowitz Pricing up Apr 16 11:59
schestowitz Ensuring people can’t buy cheap Intel chips Apr 16 11:59
schestowitz Pay premium only Apr 16 11:59
tacone lol: “Vista ?! this is bullshit. I’m homeless but I’m not retarded” http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbJ… Apr 16 11:59
schestowitz Blkock the lower end Apr 16 11:59
schestowitz But ARM is coming Apr 16 11:59
oiaohm Problem is everything netbook class MS really not making a licence profit from. Apr 16 12:00
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oiaohm MS though it would be sourced earth. Apr 16 12:04
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oiaohm Drop XP dirt cheep in the market so killing off Linux.  Not going to happen. Apr 16 12:04
DaemonFC more people know XP and most companies don’t do a good port, if any, of their Windows stuff Apr 16 12:05
DaemonFC so you kind of get caught with Wine Apr 16 12:05
DaemonFC that’s the biggest problem facing Linux Apr 16 12:05
oiaohm Not really. Apr 16 12:05
oiaohm Biggest problem is people have lost the art of plaining OS migrations. Apr 16 12:05
DaemonFC Well, there are still entire classes of hardware where half or more of the devices have no Linux driver Apr 16 12:06
DaemonFC TV cards are basically the new Winmoden Apr 16 12:06
DaemonFC *Winmodem Apr 16 12:06
oiaohm Done right the change over from Windows to Linux is almost no distruption. Apr 16 12:06
oiaohm Were Winmodems really a problem to well planed migrations. Apr 16 12:07
oiaohm No Apr 16 12:07
oiaohm Its lack of planing. Apr 16 12:07
DaemonFC no, but where Windows is right now, you have to convince people to stop using it on systems that exist Apr 16 12:07
schestowitz oiaohm: they devalue Windows Apr 16 12:07
DaemonFC maybe they didn’t even know what Linux is when they bought their PC? Apr 16 12:07
schestowitz The issue is, if they give it free for sub-notebooks it won’t kill Linux… AND… Apr 16 12:07
schestowitz They also lead to people asking what they pay for anyway Apr 16 12:07
schestowitz Sooner or later people ask for free Windows upgrades Apr 16 12:08
schestowitz You can’t give away lobsters Apr 16 12:08
MinceR i’m asking for microsoft to die Apr 16 12:08
schestowitz People then treat them like Sardines Apr 16 12:08
MinceR but i didn’t get it yet :( Apr 16 12:08
DaemonFC well, the TV tuner card is a really cool device, the primary use of some peoples machines Apr 16 12:08
DaemonFC ironically I caught up with a guy that used to make Linux drivers for the company that made my card Apr 16 12:08
oiaohm There are a lot of TV tuners that do work. Apr 16 12:08
DaemonFC he said they were jsut about to work on one for my card when he got laid off :P Apr 16 12:09
schestowitz DaemonFC: in the US it’s hard Apr 16 12:09
MinceR sadly they don’t make any bt878 cards anymore Apr 16 12:09
schestowitz In Brazil, for example not so much Apr 16 12:09
schestowitz Esp. in schools Apr 16 12:09
schestowitz All Brazilian schools move to Linux Apr 16 12:09
schestowitz Russian too Apr 16 12:09
MinceR it’s all cx88 and saa-whatever crap now Apr 16 12:09
schestowitz They don’t have the same issues of TV cards and bureaucracy Apr 16 12:09
DaemonFC well, every other class of device went from hardly working to almost always working on Linux Apr 16 12:09
DaemonFC so I figure TV tuners are just in that phase where wifi was 5-6 years ago Apr 16 12:10
oiaohm Really the importance will drop when TV tuners in video cards work. Apr 16 12:10
MinceR except if you go for a video card with a tuner you make compromises Apr 16 12:10
oiaohm Since video card can kinda kick the crap of cpu at compression. Apr 16 12:10
DaemonFC oh yeah, as soon as that takes off, Nvidia will have that on Linux with no trouble Apr 16 12:10
DaemonFC they have great drivers Apr 16 12:11
MinceR otoh DVB is coming to hungary and then it will be a lot simpler Apr 16 12:11
tacone actually, Linux is where Mac was some year ago. Apr 16 12:12
MinceR inflexible, stupid, overpriced crap? :> Apr 16 12:12
schestowitz ODF Turkey Launched < http://www.odfalliance.org/blog/ind… > Apr 16 12:12
oiaohm Think driver support MinceR Apr 16 12:12
DaemonFC Mincer, it has a tuner but that’s not important Apr 16 12:12
tacone shipping an hardware piece without a proper linux driver will start to feel uncomfortable and  incomplete Apr 16 12:12
DaemonFC half the channels are encrypted and need the tuner box anyway Apr 16 12:12
MinceR mac supported more architectures and hw than any other os some years ago? Apr 16 12:13
DaemonFC OS X should be as portable as any UNIX system Apr 16 12:13
MinceR should Apr 16 12:13
MinceR it should also be FLOSS Apr 16 12:13
DaemonFC most of it is Apr 16 12:13
MinceR and it should be a gnu/linux distro Apr 16 12:13
oiaohm Third party parts MinceR Apr 16 12:13
MinceR but it isn’t Apr 16 12:13
oiaohm OS X suports more now than then. Apr 16 12:14
MinceR it’s a vile piece of crap hacked together mostly from BSDL-ed code they ripped off. Apr 16 12:14
MinceR with a proprietary gui tacked on that was thrown together with no thoughts for users with more than a single brain cell. Apr 16 12:14
DaemonFC The worst pat is their file system Apr 16 12:14
MinceR well, they can use ZFS now for that Apr 16 12:15
MinceR and claim they invented the wheel Apr 16 12:15
MinceR (the second part is very important) Apr 16 12:15
tacone they can’t even mount xfs.. Apr 16 12:15
tacone not even with 3rd party software. Apr 16 12:15
DaemonFC XFS on FreeBSD is experimental and the port is not done by SGI Apr 16 12:16
DaemonFC so if you want to trust it, that’s on you Apr 16 12:16
DaemonFC there’s no guarantee their driver is as good as the ones in IRIX or Linux Apr 16 12:17
schestowitz Can anyone read this (Spanish)? http://www.informatica.gov.ec/index.ph… Apr 16 12:17
DaemonFC the Linux port is fairly hackish in some places where they had to work around IRIX functionality that Linux doesn’t have Apr 16 12:17
tacone schestowitz: let me see Apr 16 12:18
tacone i can try Apr 16 12:18
schestowitz Google Translate doesn’t shed much light Apr 16 12:18
oiaohm They are getting to remove some of those hacks as Linux gets the funtionality too DaemonFC Apr 16 12:18
tacone Ecuatorian Insitute of Normalization INEN unanimously approved  the following technical rule (law?) about IT, with connotation of volountariety (?!) Apr 16 12:19
MinceR as if apple fanboys ever cared about reliability :> Apr 16 12:19
DaemonFC I actually kind of like XP in some ways, from the viewpoint of a user Apr 16 12:19
DaemonFC but Vista and 7 have done away with anything XP did right Apr 16 12:19
tacone (1) tecnology of information. Service management, part 1: specifications Apr 16 12:19
tacone 2) … part 2: code of good practices Apr 16 12:20
tacone Open Document Format for office applications (Open Document) Apr 16 12:20
tacone Source: INEN, Resolution of the council. Act number 004-2009 Apr 16 12:21
tacone schestowitz:  seems there’s not much in that page Apr 16 12:21
DaemonFC schestowitz: It’s now a crime in Texas for any state agency to buy Vista Apr 16 12:22
DaemonFC unless approved by their state budget office Apr 16 12:22
DaemonFC and you have to tell them WHY you need it :P Apr 16 12:22
schestowitz tacone: thanks. Apr 16 12:22
schestowitz It did seem void of statemenrs Apr 16 12:22
schestowitz Why are India and Texas married to Windows? http://boycottnovell.com/2009/04… Apr 16 12:23
_Hicham_ Texas is George W. Bush, Bush is Microsoft Dependent, by transitivity Texas is married to Windows Apr 16 12:25
DaemonFC Texas is just insane Apr 16 12:26
DaemonFC they always have been Apr 16 12:26
DaemonFC There’s a saying that Texas is too small to be a country and too big to be an insane asylum Apr 16 12:26
DaemonFC :) Apr 16 12:26
DaemonFC hmmmmm Apr 16 12:28
DaemonFC James Bond movie Apr 16 12:28
DaemonFC knew there had to be something on Apr 16 12:28
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DaemonFC heh, the cable TV actually looks worse on LCD hi def displays or computer monitors Apr 16 12:30
DaemonFC cause they’re better than the signal :P Apr 16 12:30
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MinceR indeed Apr 16 12:31
zer0c00l hi ushimitsudoki Apr 16 12:31
ushimitsudoki howdy Apr 16 12:31
DaemonFC http://www.camcorderinfo.com/con… Apr 16 12:32
DaemonFC I had one of those Apr 16 12:32
DaemonFC it was a version 2 but there was actually no difference in the devices, just the bundled software :P Apr 16 12:32
schestowitz Just in: In a Desert, TV-Browser is an EPG Oasis < http://www.freesoftwaremagazine.com/column… > “It is not often that you fail to find half a dozen free software programs to fill a particular niche -browsers, e-mail clients or file managers to name a few; so it was with both surprise and disappointment that I nearly drew a blank in my search for an Electronic Programme Guide (EPG) for GNU/Linux.” Apr 16 12:35
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schestowitz Goblin is playing with the Microsoft Trolls: http://openbytes.wordpress.com/200… Apr 16 12:37
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schestowitz http://www.ibm.com/developer… The rsync family Apr 16 12:42
schestowitz I’ve not used rsync in a year or so (used to be daily) Apr 16 12:42
MinceR http://mobilitics.blogspot.com/20… Apr 16 12:43
schestowitz http://itmanagement.earthweb.com/entdev/a… “Software designers have endeavored to improve on the humble hourglass by adding Time Remaining display boxes. When you copy a large file, start a download, or task your computer with something important that needs to be done now, the computer will try to keep you dutifully informed by displaying Time Remaining. “ Apr 16 12:44
zer0c00l i use rsync atleast  once in  a month  :) its kind of admin thing Apr 16 12:45
zer0c00l MinceR, many apps does that , i use operamini wap browser which also does like that Apr 16 12:48
zer0c00l *do Apr 16 12:48
schestowitz Bankruptcies in the UK on the uprise.. :-( http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_pi… Apr 16 12:50
schestowitz There’s a takeaway right by my house. Shut down like many others Apr 16 12:51
schestowitz The thing is, nobody even takes their estate Apr 16 12:51
schestowitz They are just dead empty shops and owners of those properties can’t sell them because there is no capital to start business. Apr 16 12:51
zer0c00l in gmail you could check your “last account activity” which shows the ip address which you recently used to check gmail..When i use operamini to check  gmail, gmail usually show one of the opera networks ip in last account activity Apr 16 12:51
schestowitz Rise of Free (libre) economics: YouTube orchestra makes its debut  < http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/am… > Apr 16 12:52
schestowitz zer0c00l: that’s also common in hosting (e.g. cpanel) and online banking Apr 16 12:52
schestowitz It keeps a breadcrumb trail. Apr 16 12:52
*zer0c00l wonders http://mobilitics.blogspot.com/200… how did he managed to find out? Apr 16 12:53
zer0c00l wireshark ? Apr 16 12:54
zer0c00l wireshark is for computers :P Apr 16 12:54
zer0c00l hmm thats a GET request Apr 16 12:55
schestowitz Does the UK believe that criminalising is encouraging productivity? http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/bus… Apr 16 12:55
schestowitz The Forester shills attack FOSS with apparent lies now Apr 16 12:59
schestowitz They claim that developers don’t care about FOSS. Apr 16 12:59
schestowitz I very much doubt it. it’s the same Forrester that attacked Linux at Microsoft’s behest (and budget). Some leaked documents show IDC doing the same thing by choosing a population survey that is rigged (tilted towards Microsoft) by design. Apr 16 12:59
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Algyz so opensuse is evil? Apr 16 13:01
schestowitz No Apr 16 13:03
schestowitz Not the community Apr 16 13:04
schestowitz OpenSUSE contains some innocence Apr 16 13:04
schestowitz And some people just thinking about their wages Apr 16 13:04
oiaohm Most of the innocence has been jumping ship. Apr 16 13:05
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trmanco Ubuntu 9.04 RC hasn’t bee released yet :( Apr 16 13:06
schestowitz Progress for ODF in Ecuador and Turkey: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/04/16… Apr 16 13:12
schestowitz Darwin award? Flying laptop kills driver: http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/ne… Apr 16 13:14
schestowitz Logitech has a $500 mouse now… does the panel use embedded Linux like their keyboard? http://www.3dconnexion.com/spp/index.php Apr 16 13:16
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oiaohm schestowitz: Flying laptop not rare enough to get Darwin award. Apr 16 13:17
oiaohm Death by laptop or other large object on back seat is common. Apr 16 13:17
oiaohm Yes really common. Apr 16 13:17
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schestowitz Windows sort of leave Linux vulnerable now, thanks to Microsoft lackeys who run VMware… http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/… ( Windows is the key to hacking another OS ) Apr 16 13:18
schestowitz DHS must ban laptops now. Apr 16 13:19
schestowitz Weapons of Man Destruction… Apr 16 13:20
oiaohm http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/n…  << Yep wonder what he was working on. Apr 16 13:22
oiaohm Not really vmware in that case was flawed you could hack windows from linux contained in vmware too schestowitz Apr 16 13:24
oiaohm Its a little bit like the firewire ports that can read and edit anywhere in memory. Apr 16 13:24
schestowitz http://www.boston.com/news/nation/a… (Anti-tax protesters turn out for tax day) All these years of reducing tax and increasing expenses are well over. There’s debt now. Apr 16 13:25
schestowitz oiaohm: it’s an exploding PC: http://www.tomsguide.com/us/PC-Exploding-… Apr 16 13:27
trmanco haha, gnote has moved to gnome Apr 16 13:27
schestowitz The suggestion that spontaneously combustion can be so severe is fictitious I think Apr 16 13:27
schestowitz But it’s the Inquirer Apr 16 13:27
schestowitz *spontaneous combustion Apr 16 13:27
schestowitz http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sp… “Spontaneous combustion is a type of combustion which occurs without an external ignition source.” Apr 16 13:28
schestowitz The original report says the PC exploded Apr 16 13:28
schestowitz trmanco: aye Apr 16 13:28
schestowitz But it was in GMOME space before, no? Apr 16 13:28
schestowitz It’s just good to see it in opensuse planet Apr 16 13:29
trmanco schestowitz, yeah, what I’m saying is that gnote has been announced in the gnome ftp mailing list Apr 16 13:29
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schestowitz I c…. Apr 16 13:30
trmanco GNOME will be moving to GIT tomorrow Apr 16 13:32
schestowitz Recession? what recession? Nokia’s profits dive 90 per cent < http://www.theregister.co.uk/20… >. They woke up to Linux too late. Apr 16 13:33
schestowitz trmanco: yes, I heard Apr 16 13:33
schestowitz BTW, did I piss off the Munchkins yesterday by posting a lot in COLA? Apr 16 13:33
schestowitz Symbian show struggles for identity < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009… >. Symbian is not really Free software.. DRM… software patents… Apr 16 13:35
DaemonFC hmmmm Apr 16 13:35
DaemonFC the Deskjet 2500 supports XP x64 Apr 16 13:36
DaemonFC that’s odd for a $40 printer Apr 16 13:36
schestowitz Microsoft is still delaying and delaying EU probe to allow itself to carry on cheating. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/04… Apr 16 13:37
DaemonFC lmao Apr 16 13:37
schestowitz trmanco: I see you’re buddied with SJVN Apr 16 13:37
DaemonFC how is a cable half as much as the printer? Apr 16 13:37
schestowitz Printers are scam Apr 16 13:37
schestowitz They should be banned like plasma TVs Apr 16 13:37
trmanco schestowitz, that was his time he replied to me Apr 16 13:37
schestowitz To encourage people to work electronically and save trees Apr 16 13:38
schestowitz Also, printers are a marketing scam Apr 16 13:38
schestowitz The average Joe is too dumb to realise why the printers and sold at a loss Apr 16 13:38
DaemonFC yeah, the printer will be like $30 but then the CORD is $20 and it’s $30-40 every time you need ink :P Apr 16 13:38
schestowitz Sometimes it’s cheaper to buy a printer and throw it away when it runs out of ink Apr 16 13:38
schestowitz Then buy another printer Apr 16 13:38
schestowitz Same with razors Apr 16 13:38
DaemonFC lmao Apr 16 13:39
schestowitz That’s the AmericanWay(C) Apr 16 13:39
schestowitz It’s only $9.99 Apr 16 13:39
DaemonFC throw the printer away cause a new cartridge is the same price Apr 16 13:39
DaemonFC that’s funny Apr 16 13:39
schestowitz it’s true Apr 16 13:39
schestowitz There’s a comparison between the prices of things like ink, blood, oil, mercury… Apr 16 13:40
schestowitz I can’t begin to think where to find this chart right now. Apr 16 13:40
schestowitz The scarcity is preserved by adding complexity and forbid refills. Apr 16 13:40
schestowitz Some companies that try refills of some sort get sued Apr 16 13:40
schestowitz It’s exceptionally hard for the manufacturers to find what to sue them FOR Apr 16 13:41
schestowitz Which is aleways hilarious Apr 16 13:41
schestowitz Like using DMCA to impose censorship Apr 16 13:41
oiaohm I have had the case where its cheeper to buy the printer than new cartridge for it. Apr 16 13:41
schestowitz Some printers come with cartridges half full Apr 16 13:41
schestowitz To prevent this Apr 16 13:41
schestowitz Consumers could probbably sue such companies Apr 16 13:41
oiaohm It was 20 dollars cheeper for the printer. Apr 16 13:41
schestowitz But the companies have lawyers to defend themselves Apr 16 13:42
schestowitz The US juridical system works in such a way that those who can afford more motions win Apr 16 13:42
DaemonFC yeah, they don’t have to win Apr 16 13:42
oiaohm Not in this case. Apr 16 13:42
schestowitz A friend of mine whose a Bay Are lawyers says this Apr 16 13:42
schestowitz *Area Apr 16 13:42
DaemonFC they jsut have to have their lawyers stall you out Apr 16 13:42
DaemonFC til you’re broke Apr 16 13:42
schestowitz “Vista capable” Apr 16 13:42
oiaohm Half full cartridges break fair trading laws here. Apr 16 13:42
schestowitz SCO is similar Apr 16 13:42
schestowitz Over 5 years now? Apr 16 13:42
schestowitz Keep the FUD in fact Apr 16 13:43
schestowitz Doesn’t matter what outcome Apr 16 13:43
oiaohm Fair trading you don’t need lawyers. Apr 16 13:43
schestowitz Microsoft keeps using the Didiot puppet  to use SCO as a risk Apr 16 13:43
oiaohm Australian system handles breaches of fair trading better. Apr 16 13:43
oiaohm Its not a court system. Apr 16 13:44
schestowitz Australia is no model, still Apr 16 13:44
oiaohm Its a regulator. Apr 16 13:44
schestowitz Maybe Germany is Apr 16 13:44
schestowitz They fines Microsoft and SCO Apr 16 13:44
schestowitz For collusion and slander Apr 16 13:44
schestowitz *fined Apr 16 13:44
DaemonFC schestowitz: THat only hurts the customers Apr 16 13:44
DaemonFC and I have a suspicion it’s not even why Microsoft is being fined Apr 16 13:44
DaemonFC I figure they’re a foreign company and the EU wants money Apr 16 13:45
DaemonFC so they take it Apr 16 13:45
schestowitz Nope Apr 16 13:45
schestowitz They compete unfairly Apr 16 13:45
schestowitz They also collude Apr 16 13:45
oiaohm EU courts attack there own as well. Apr 16 13:45
DaemonFC you’d never see the EU go after one of their own companies like this Apr 16 13:45
schestowitz They could pick other cvictims, sure Apr 16 13:45
oiaohm They do. Apr 16 13:45
schestowitz But they choose Microsoft because of scale Apr 16 13:45
DaemonFC if Microsoft was in Europe, the situation would be tthe EU does nothing and the US fines them Apr 16 13:45
oiaohm Most EU companies are not stupid enough to mess with them. Apr 16 13:45
schestowitz And because there is lots more to scrutinise over Apr 16 13:45
oiaohm Last few EU companies that did got completely broken up. Apr 16 13:46
schestowitz Microsoft is like a complex mafia Apr 16 13:46
schestowitz You can’t knock it all down Apr 16 13:46
schestowitz it’s disributed Apr 16 13:46
schestowitz So you find individual people Apr 16 13:46
schestowitz and arrest them Apr 16 13:46
schestowitz Or find specific crimes Apr 16 13:46
schestowitz And then deal with them in turn Apr 16 13:46
oiaohm So EU companies think twice before doing stunts that MS did. Apr 16 13:46
DaemonFC they still fined Microsoft for some ridiculous things that every OS does Apr 16 13:46
schestowitz The mafia stays nonetheless Apr 16 13:46
DaemonFC You’re telling me iTunes and Safari are not “integrated” into a Mac? Apr 16 13:46
oiaohm What do you mean every OS does. Apr 16 13:47
schestowitz DaemonFC: what? MSO price-fixing? Apr 16 13:47
schestowitz Not an OS thing Apr 16 13:47
schestowitz Prevention of competitiopn Apr 16 13:47
DaemonFC no, I’m saying they should fine Apple too Apr 16 13:47
schestowitz Conspiring against consumers Apr 16 13:47
oiaohm iTunes and Safari are avalible for windows. Apr 16 13:47
schestowitz And also against compeition Apr 16 13:47
DaemonFC it’s even been proven that Safari used undocumented APIs Apr 16 13:47
schestowitz using an illegally-obtained monopoly Apr 16 13:47
DaemonFC and Mozilla had to reverse engineer them Apr 16 13:47
oiaohm So where is windows media player on Mac Apr 16 13:47
schestowitz They commited crimes against WordPerfect Apr 16 13:47
schestowitz New document on Microsoft’s crimes: http://www.ecis.eu/documents/Fina… Apr 16 13:48
schestowitz Covers WP too Apr 16 13:48
DaemonFC I still say that Apple got away with using undocumented APIs to cripple other web browsers Apr 16 13:48
DaemonFC if Microsoft did that and other browsers started staggering and crashing, it wouldn’t go unnoticed Apr 16 13:48
zoobab01 Roy, do you know if this is a valid english question: Apr 16 13:49
zoobab01 the first queston of Brimelow Apr 16 13:49
DaemonFC there was a Mozilla dev that was detailing just one way Apple crippled them Apr 16 13:49
DaemonFC by using an undocumented API that let Safari interface with Quartz much more smoothly Apr 16 13:49
DaemonFC and forcing Mozilla to use the documented method which was much slower Apr 16 13:50
schestowitz Zamzar added ODF support. http://www.schoollibraryjournal…. “Get on Zamzar’s Web site and start adding all the YouTube videos you want. With Zamzar in your toolbelt, you can flip your .avi files to flash videos (.flv). Those .odt (Open Document) files can easily be morphed into .doc files too. Still have a dinosaur with their syllabi in WordPerfect? Zamzar can help with that, too.” Apr 16 13:51
schestowitz When will Apple support ODF? Apr 16 13:51
DaemonFC schestowitz: Apple is far worse than Microsoft Apr 16 13:51
DaemonFC they just have better PR Apr 16 13:51
trmanco bbl, I’ll be upgrading Apr 16 13:51
trmanco :-P Apr 16 13:51
oiaohm Apple is not worse than MS. Apr 16 13:52
DaemonFC Apple crippled Mozilla Firefox on OS X Apr 16 13:52
oiaohm Both are trying to do exactly the same things. Apr 16 13:52
oiaohm IE on windows uses undocumented features too. Apr 16 13:52
DaemonFC Microsoft told Mozilla how to make it work better on Windows Apr 16 13:52
schestowitz Both are irrelevant Apr 16 13:52
schestowitz Long term, Apple may have some following Apr 16 13:52
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schestowitz But they are scared of Linux Apr 16 13:52
schestowitz They don’t have enough engineers Apr 16 13:52
DaemonFC Apple would just be another Microsoft Apr 16 13:52
schestowitz And they fire employees already Apr 16 13:52
schestowitz Their fianncial results too are negative Apr 16 13:53
schestowitz And they have no Jobs (mind case) Apr 16 13:53
schestowitz Linux has LOADS more devs than Apple Apr 16 13:53
schestowitz And it shows Apr 16 13:53
DaemonFC well, when the economy goes bad, everyone tries to make things last longer Apr 16 13:53
schestowitz Android challenges jusesPhone/HypePhone on price Apr 16 13:53
DaemonFC that goes from just some guy using XP Apr 16 13:53
schestowitz *jesusphone Apr 16 13:53
DaemonFC to big corporations that skip Vista on thousands of PCs Apr 16 13:53
DaemonFC Microsoft is doing poorly because Windows is far too expensive to jsutify if the one you have works Apr 16 13:54
schestowitz zoobab01: which question? EBoA? Apr 16 13:54
schestowitz zoobab01: the questions were kind of weird Apr 16 13:54
oiaohm http://www.youtube.com/watch?…  This on of IBM I have always loved. Apr 16 13:54
schestowitz Not that I want to say it; they just were Apr 16 13:54
oiaohm on/one Apr 16 13:54
DaemonFC and becauseand even if you could go out and buy the upgrade, it probably won’t run well or at all without new hardware Apr 16 13:55
DaemonFC so they have two problems, I’d say the slow and bloated part is hurting them worse Apr 16 13:55
zer0c00l BJP’s national IT cell convener, Pradyut Bora, said: “This should be asked to the state government. But, policies can always change.”  morons  http://www.expressindia.com/latest-new… Apr 16 13:56
schestowitz zer0c00l: pretenders? Apr 16 13:57
schestowitz Maybe the publicity stunt Apr 16 13:57
zer0c00l schestowitz, yes Apr 16 13:57
DaemonFC schestowitz: Avermedia’s media center is far better than Microsoft’s, heh Apr 16 13:57
DaemonFC it does not respect the “broadcast flag” Apr 16 13:58
zer0c00l schestowitz, the party supported patents in the past Apr 16 13:58
schestowitz Two possibilities: 1) bargaining with Microsoft by playing hard to get; 2) election stunts for voters (like in Brazil) Apr 16 13:58
schestowitz zer0c00l: ha Apr 16 13:58
schestowitz Flip-floppers Apr 16 13:58
schestowitz Keeping pressure of them is important Apr 16 13:58
schestowitz Words are not contract Apr 16 13:59
schestowitz Same with PDF ‘prospectus’ Apr 16 13:59
DaemonFC schestowitz: I think I’ll skip the printer and jsut email anything I need to print to myself and print it out at the library :P Apr 16 13:59
schestowitz It’s nothing you can legally use to say they lied or violated faith when Orlando Ayala and his Dumping Mafia bribes BJP Apr 16 13:59
zer0c00l schestowitz, did you read http://www.hindu.com/2009/04/10/s… that same party Apr 16 13:59
zer0c00l *article on that same party Apr 16 13:59
zer0c00l BJP — a party that promotes hatred and violence in the name of religion in india Apr 16 14:00
zer0c00l Orlando Ayala? Apr 16 14:00
schestowitz zer0c00l: I’ll post it later Apr 16 14:01
zer0c00l schestowitz, ok Apr 16 14:01
schestowitz Orlando Ayala = Microsoft’s anti-Linux dumper Apr 16 14:01
schestowitz He also attacked OLPC with his cheap cigarettes Apr 16 14:02
schestowitz They wanted to kill OLPC, they got it Apr 16 14:02
schestowitz No Sugar, no public support anymore Apr 16 14:02
schestowitz Search BN for his name. We have plenty Apr 16 14:02
schestowitz Hmmmm…. weird new ‘article’… GNU Free Documentation License < http://www.sueddeutsche.de/sonst… > Apr 16 14:04
Algyz But really for average user it seems nearly impossible for m$ to bankrupt :) Apr 16 14:05
schestowitz Becayse of brainwash Apr 16 14:06
schestowitz Microsoft did not buy so many media companies for nothing Apr 16 14:06
schestowitz They have already been publicly accused of spreading illusions of grandeur and vilifying those who contradict Apr 16 14:07
schestowitz Algyz: let me cite, for WIW Apr 16 14:07
*rofrol (n=rofrol@1.pia.airbites.pl) has joined #boycottnovell Apr 16 14:08
schestowitz http://billparish.com/msftfraudfacts.html “8) Managing the financial analyst community.  Another excellent earnings management technique is the management of the analyst community.  This can be done by directing investment banking business associated with acquisitions to a variety of firms based upon their opinion of the stock. “ Apr 16 14:08
schestowitz “Microsoft purchased more than 33 companies in 1998. A good example here might be Rick Sherlund of Goldman Sachs, often noted as the guy who can move tech stocks.  “ Apr 16 14:09
schestowitz “One might ask why Mr. Sherlund refers to Microsoft as a company with no debt when they clearly have a contractual obligation, just as real as today’s stock price, of $60 billion to their employees. “ Apr 16 14:09
schestowitz “5) Controlling the media. After issuing several press releases on PR Newswire, Microsoft told the service to stop issuing my press releases.  Microsoft is PR Newswire’s largest client. PR Newswire is owned by Miller Freeman of the UK,  a large media company..” Apr 16 14:09
Algyz Not so much usable OS’s here, actually Linux is competitor, I’m happy with it, but lots of miseducated (by somehow, guess who) people imagining it like something unknowkn, causing lots of problems, etc.. Apr 16 14:09
schestowitz “that publishes many computer related publications including Information Week in addition to Microsoft focused journals such as the Windows System Developer. Miller Freeman does indeed function as if it were a department of Microsoft itself. “ Apr 16 14:09
schestowitz Algyz: it’s all in perception Apr 16 14:10
schestowitz Same with many things, including “world is flat”, “Iraq caused 9/11″ etc. Apr 16 14:10
Algyz :-D Apr 16 14:10
Algyz red hat ad :-D Apr 16 14:10
Algyz world is flat Apr 16 14:10
Algyz I like it Apr 16 14:11
Algyz For me actually ubuntu is ze best, although lots of people aren’t very happy with this distro Apr 16 14:11
schestowitz Oh, I forgot about the Red Hat ad Apr 16 14:12
schestowitz For servers, GNU/Linux is great Apr 16 14:12
schestowitz CentOS and debian too Apr 16 14:12
Algyz Have you seen it? Apr 16 14:12
schestowitz But Red Hat is the known brand Apr 16 14:12
schestowitz Algyz: yes Apr 16 14:12
Algyz youtube Apr 16 14:13
DaemonFC Red Hat does a lot of good stuff Apr 16 14:13
schestowitz http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2… Apr 16 14:13
DaemonFC they’re behind the native posix threads library too Apr 16 14:13
schestowitz They have a new virt programme Apr 16 14:13
DaemonFC so thank them we’re not using the old broken linuxthreads B-) Apr 16 14:13
schestowitz To replace those that Mcirosoft bought ot corrupted Apr 16 14:13
schestowitz Include vmware and xen Apr 16 14:13
schestowitz *including Apr 16 14:13
DaemonFC Virtual PC sucks Apr 16 14:13
schestowitz Hyped up stuff Apr 16 14:14
*rofrol has quit (“Leaving”) Apr 16 14:14
DaemonFC about the only think it can properly virtualize is Windows Apr 16 14:14
oiaohm ksm is also about helping kvm. Apr 16 14:14
schestowitz “Saving electricity” and other nonsense Apr 16 14:14
schestowitz They hype it up dangerously in the press Apr 16 14:14
Algyz novell also writing lots of kernel :S Apr 16 14:14
Algyz like 10 pc Apr 16 14:14
DaemonFC Virtual Box is better than Virtual PC on their own OS Apr 16 14:14
DaemonFC :P Apr 16 14:14
schestowitz As though you lose if you don’t virtualise Apr 16 14:14
schestowitz Only 9% of servers were virtualise a while ago Apr 16 14:14
schestowitz Microsoft wants to use adoption to lock Linux out Apr 16 14:14
DaemonFC I think Microsoft knows it’s going to have to be in on the Linux revenue Apr 16 14:15
DaemonFC if it wants to stay relevant Apr 16 14:15
oiaohm KVM can run Hyber-V inside. Apr 16 14:15
oiaohm yep hybervisor inside hypervisor support. Apr 16 14:15
schestowitz DaemonFC: that’s why it poisons like via Novell Apr 16 14:18
schestowitz Novell does not mind because Microsoft pumps money into it to do so Apr 16 14:18
schestowitz Wikipedians to vote on Creative Commons license adoption  < http://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/20… >. Why change when something works fine? Apr 16 14:22
oiaohm MS knew Linux would not be ready for years. Apr 16 14:23
oiaohm Never allowed on the fact the Linux would cause them to fight themselves. Apr 16 14:23
oiaohm Netbook market causes a boost in number of developers working on the desktop side. Apr 16 14:24
schestowitz For Linux? Apr 16 14:24
schestowitz That would be true, BUT… Apr 16 14:25
schestowitz There’s a cost to Microsoft Apr 16 14:25
schestowitz Their profits Apr 16 14:25
schestowitz Report due soon. Apr 16 14:25
schestowitz They’ll cook the books, but I’ll look deeper Apr 16 14:25
oiaohm 2014 is when MS prediced Linux would be come a problem. Apr 16 14:26
oiaohm So 2012 change to .net would have been perfect. Apr 16 14:26
oiaohm As with all time tables not everything goes to plan. Apr 16 14:26
schestowitz Linux keeps running on anything from big to small: http://www.linuxdevices.com/ne… Apr 16 14:26
oiaohm http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWJ…  Now that is a good selection of music.   Now that would be warped if the installer played music. Apr 16 14:27
oiaohm Yes redhat 5 installing min in 10 mins. Apr 16 14:27
schestowitz New Glade is released (GTK GUIs): http://ftp.gnome.org/pub/GNOME… Apr 16 14:30
schestowitz oiaohm: can do cluster-install too Apr 16 14:31
schestowitz Seen it happen in our department Apr 16 14:31
*iwmw (n=iwmw@intech.natm.ru) has joined #boycottnovell Apr 16 14:31
oiaohm I have done debain cluster installs as well. Apr 16 14:32
oiaohm its mostly just the right software. Apr 16 14:32
schestowitz http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/20… (YouTube A Breeding Ground For Ponzi Schemes) Apr 16 14:35
schestowitz Mentioned yesterday: Amazon Says No To Phorm Tracking < http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/20… > Phorm was sued, but it’s part of a malicious cabal (in this case) that includes BT and the UK govt. Apr 16 14:36
schestowitz Google/Yahoo could make a fortunate selling people’s profiles Apr 16 14:37
schestowitz Sweden targets strippers for tax < http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wor… > Apr 16 14:39
iwmw google at least is allowed to do that Apr 16 14:39
iwmw as good as i remember google can sell almost anything about you while it makes money for them Apr 16 14:40
schestowitz In the news: http://www.expressindia.com/latest-news… http://ostatic.com/blog/why-isnt-op… Considering all that MOU nonsense (and EDGI) which is arguably against the law, I think one point should mentioned the police/authorities. White-collar crime is part of the problem here and being all nice and cute about it won’t resolve the proble Apr 16 14:43
schestowitz m. Apr 16 14:43
schestowitz iwmw: why is Google allowed? Apr 16 14:43
schestowitz It has the best profiles probably Apr 16 14:44
schestowitz The most intrusive Apr 16 14:44
iwmw yeah… about almost all of your interests and your login/passwords to other sites occasionally Apr 16 14:45
iwmw yeah, chats also and people connected Apr 16 14:46
iwmw yeah, and it’s allowed just because government loves to know such kind of info Apr 16 14:47
iwmw so it can has anyone’s ass immediately as it needs it Apr 16 14:49
schestowitz yes Apr 16 14:49
schestowitz same with phorm Apr 16 14:50
schestowitz Phorm essentially goes BEYOND ISP retention and also parses the info and organises it at the expense of non-public fund. Apr 16 14:50
schestowitz zoobab01: http://blogs.fsfe.org/greve/?p=321 Apr 16 14:53
schestowitz zoobab01: what’s up with Digistan? http://www.digistan.org/about Apr 16 14:55
schestowitz OpenBSD: Check out my Xfce desktop < http://insidesocal.com/click/2009/04/ope… > Apr 16 15:01
schestowitz Sun Said to Be Willing to Talk If IBM Eases on Terms < http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p… > Apr 16 15:02
*DaemonFC has quit (“Leaving”) Apr 16 15:04
schestowitz Ok, I’m heading off Apr 16 15:04
*trmanco (n=trmanco@bl8-234-140.dsl.telepac.pt) has joined #boycottnovell Apr 16 15:35
trmanco :) Apr 16 15:36
*oiaohm has quit (Remote closed the connection) Apr 16 15:48
*DaemonFC (n=Ryan@c-67-173-86-85.hsd1.il.comcast.net) has joined #boycottnovell Apr 16 15:51
*balzac is now known as paulgaskin Apr 16 16:14
*trmanco has quit (“ERROR: crap-talking overflow – Aborting”) Apr 16 16:17
*trmanco (n=trmanco@bl8-234-140.dsl.telepac.pt) has joined #boycottnovell Apr 16 16:21
trmanco upgrade went flawless :D Apr 16 16:31
Balrog hello everyone Apr 16 16:46
*paulgaskin is now known as balzac Apr 16 16:52
*zer0c00l has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) Apr 16 16:59
trmanco hello Balrog Apr 16 17:02
trmanco oops Apr 16 17:02
trmanco oh yeah, I got it right Apr 16 17:02
Balrog yes. Apr 16 17:04
Balrog anything new of importance, other than the general realization the MS is spreading more and more FUD and propaganda?? Apr 16 17:04
trmanco I have no idea for today, I’ve been upgrading my Linux box Apr 16 17:07
Balrog I see. Apr 16 17:09
schestowitz trmanco: 9.04? Apr 16 17:14
trmanco schestowitz, yes Apr 16 17:15
trmanco RC Apr 16 17:15
*schestowitz sets mode -e schestowitz Apr 16 17:15
*You are now known as agent904 Apr 16 17:15
trmanco loool Apr 16 17:15
trmanco I like the notification system Apr 16 17:15
*You are now known as schestowitz Apr 16 17:15
*services. sets mode +e schestowitz Apr 16 17:15
trmanco but still lacks some functionality and configuration Apr 16 17:16
trmanco I has a new shiny usplash and gdm theme Apr 16 17:17
trmanco it nwo includes Epiphany for some reason Apr 16 17:21
trmanco now* Apr 16 17:21
schestowitz How much do you know about MS and DHS (and BSA? Apr 16 17:21
schestowitz I just got this: Apr 16 17:22
schestowitz “You’ve probably already seen this, but reading it almost made me throw up (yes, absolutely a puke/barf/gag moment). Figured I’d better send it along to you, just in case you hadn’t seen it yet. This part made me laugh…between gagging spells (nope, not a pretty sight)…” Apr 16 17:22
schestowitz “To try to help public safety agencies, Microsoft announced Citizen Safety Architecture, an umbrella under which it will market its existing products and those of partners for use by public safety organizations.” http://www.pcworld.com/article/163183… Apr 16 17:22
schestowitz http://boycottnovell.com/2009/03/12… Apr 16 17:22
*iwmw has quit (“Leaving”) Apr 16 17:22
schestowitz http://boycottnovell.com/2009/03/1… http://boycottnovell.com/2009/04/0… This is becoming unnerving. Microsoft is pushing its fist up the wrong places now. Apr 16 17:23
schestowitz $USA_Government.PromoteDemocracy(); Apr 16 17:23
schestowitz ##ERROR: function/method ‘PromoteDemocracy()’ deprecated, try ‘Invade()’ instead Apr 16 17:24
schestowitz Microsoft.PromoteWindows(); Apr 16 17:24
trmanco haha Apr 16 17:24
schestowitz ##ERROR: not  enough cronies Apr 16 17:24
schestowitz Microsoft.InvadeDHS(); Apr 16 17:24
schestowitz Microsoft.PromoteWindows(); Apr 16 17:25
schestowitz PASSWORD: Apr 16 17:25
schestowitz error. try again. Apr 16 17:25
schestowitz PASSWORD: Apr 16 17:25
schestowitz error. try again. Apr 16 17:25
schestowitz PASSWORD: Apr 16 17:25
schestowitz C:\> Apr 16 17:25
schestowitz Wha?!!? Apr 16 17:25
schestowitz Sudo !! Apr 16 17:25
schestowitz http://boycottnovell.com/2009/03… Apr 16 17:27
trmanco Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv: Gecko/2009033100 Ubuntu/9.04 (jaunty) Firefox/3.0.8 Apr 16 17:28
trmanco :D Apr 16 17:28
schestowitz http://boycottnovell.com/2009/03/16/ms-… An Influential Meal at Ubuntu Apr 16 17:32
schestowitz http://www.yumsugar.com/3035406 Apr 16 17:32
trmanco wow, an Ubuntu restaurant Apr 16 17:34
schestowitz http://www.h-online.com/open/Vulne… Apr 16 17:36
schestowitz trmanco: yes, it’s also to do with basketball Apr 16 17:37
schestowitz I syndicate those terms Apr 16 17:37
schestowitz GNU is lots of news in Africa Apr 16 17:37
trmanco udev Apr 16 17:38
trmanco I received a security update yesterday for it (Intrepid) Apr 16 17:38
schestowitz it comes with lots of sw Apr 16 17:41
schestowitz +repos Apr 16 17:41
schestowitz brb Apr 16 17:41
DaemonFC schestowitz: Writing a brief post Apr 16 17:44
DaemonFC about IE 8′s weak crypto if you run it on XP or 2003 Apr 16 17:45
trmanco wha? weak crypto? how do you know that? Apr 16 17:49
DaemonFC cause they decided not to update cipher strength unless you buy Windows 7 or Vista Apr 16 17:51
trmanco haha, another way to make money -> credit: MS Apr 16 17:54
DaemonFC schestowitz: http://izanbardprince.wordpress.com/2… Apr 16 18:01
trmanco http://git.gnome.org/cgit/ <- :D Apr 16 18:02
DaemonFC looks liek Safari 4 has native widgets Apr 16 18:02
DaemonFC for XP and Vista users Apr 16 18:02
schestowitz I think Larry Lessig should really comment on what Obama is doing appointing RIAA lawyers, which may be Biden’s fault. Apr 16 18:06
schestowitz Online-Only Newspapers Face Uphill Battle < http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2… > Translation: they’re dying, unless the public funds them. Apr 16 18:07
schestowitz DaemonFC: consequences of bad security: Conficker likely to cause rise in spam levels  < http://www.itwire.com/con… > Apr 16 18:09
schestowitz BTW I liked to that Vista7 post yesterday Apr 16 18:09
DaemonFC I noticed the pingback Apr 16 18:09
schestowitz Spreading love to family and friends: http://news.softpedia.com/news/Ubuntu… (Ubuntu 9.04 Free CDs: Orders Are Taken Now) Apr 16 18:10
schestowitz http://triangle.bizjournals.com/tri… “Chairman Szulik sells 55,000 Red Hat shares” Apr 16 18:16
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