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| schestowitz | Rugged Linux Server For Rural, Tropical Environment? < http://ask.slashdot.org/article... > | Apr 21 00:01 |
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| schestowitz | Slashdot has been weird in recent years | Apr 21 00:01 |
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| schestowitz | It's Linux-shy and it has Microsoft marketing people in it | Apr 21 00:01 |
| schestowitz | .In the community that is | Apr 21 00:01 |
| DavidGerard | that IT WOrld article reads like it was computer generated | Apr 21 00:01 |
| DavidGerard | a markov chain or something | Apr 21 00:01 |
| DavidGerard | the microsoft astroturfers on slashdot are marvellous fun | Apr 21 00:02 |
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| DavidGerard | they're getting tired and desperate, wondering how long the marketing funding will hold out or if they're next in the layoffs | Apr 21 00:04 |
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| DavidGerard | brb, kid to bed | Apr 21 00:04 |
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| MinceR | and if that wasn't enough /. has long ago been overrun by drooling crApple fanboys | Apr 21 00:06 |
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| schestowitz | Microsoft makes less than $15 for each netbook Windows XP Home copy http://www.hexus.net/content/ite... | Apr 21 00:07 |
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| MinceR | my only question about the palm webos is: when will i be able to run native linux apps on it that have access to the gui and the phone hw? | Apr 21 00:09 |
| Balrog | MinceR: no AFAIK | Apr 21 00:10 |
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| MinceR | gn | Apr 21 00:11 |
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| schestowitz | Ooo got busy after the Sun/Oracle annnouncement. Hours later: http://blogs.sun.com/GullFO... | Apr 21 00:13 |
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| MinceR | but when are they going to fix the color handling bugs? | Apr 21 00:14 |
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| MinceR | at least the font handling seems to be a little less shitty in ooo now | Apr 21 00:16 |
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| mib_05oei7 mib_45eu6f mib_ermi8h mib_ey0o48 mib_obw0n1 MinceR | Apr 21 00:16 | |
| schestowitz | 3.1 is out soon | Apr 21 00:17 |
| schestowitz | Also, this is supposed to have some nice antialiasing bits | Apr 21 00:17 |
| mib_05oei7 mib_45eu6f mib_ermi8h mib_ey0o48 mib_obw0n1 MinceR | Apr 21 00:17 | |
| balzac | http://www.cracked.com/blog/billy-bo... | Apr 21 00:18 |
| balzac | billy bob's canada interview is hilarious, expecially with the sub-titles | Apr 21 00:18 |
| schestowitz | What If Vista 7 Starter Isn't Meant to Just Stop Linux on Netbooks? < http://ostatic.com/blog/what-if-windows... > | Apr 21 00:18 |
| MinceR | writer seems to handle colors correctly, but calc still ignores background colors | Apr 21 00:18 |
| mib_05oei7 mib_45eu6f mib_ermi8h mib_ey0o48 mib_obw0n1 MinceR | Apr 21 00:19 | |
| schestowitz | MinceR: tell Oracle to fix it | Apr 21 00:19 |
| MinceR | i'm on 2.4 | Apr 21 00:19 |
| MinceR | :) | Apr 21 00:19 |
| schestowitz | /s/tell/beg/ | Apr 21 00:19 |
| MinceR | i'll get the message to them by choosing to use gnome office instead | Apr 21 00:19 |
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| _Hicham_ | Hi Roy! | Apr 21 00:21 |
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| schestowitz | Hey, what's up? | Apr 21 00:23 |
| _Hicham_ | nothing | Apr 21 00:24 |
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| _Hicham_ | a friend asked me last night to fix his webcam driver on Vista | Apr 21 00:24 |
| _Hicham_ | but it is very problematic | Apr 21 00:24 |
| schestowitz | hehe. New: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v... | Apr 21 00:25 |
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| schestowitz | _Hicham_: the friend, the Vista, or the webcam? | Apr 21 00:25 |
| balzac | http://www.fsdaily.com/HighEnd/Intel_w... | Apr 21 00:25 |
| balzac | I wonder what oiahm would say about that ^^^ | Apr 21 00:25 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : Vista and the Webcam | Apr 21 00:26 |
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| schestowitz | _Hicham_: why did the friend use Vista? :-) | Apr 21 00:28 |
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| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : it was preinstalled of course | Apr 21 00:28 |
| schestowitz | So the OEM is a problem too | Apr 21 00:28 |
| schestowitz | A liability if you like | Apr 21 00:28 |
| DavidGerard | what's the value proposition for ICC? why do intel not free it up and therefore sell more intel CPUs? | Apr 21 00:28 |
| schestowitz | Part of the racketeering loophole | Apr 21 00:28 |
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| DavidGerard | sun hasn't freed up forte either, but they have expressly declared that gcc compatiblility is needed | Apr 21 00:29 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : Vista locks people into it | Apr 21 00:29 |
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| DavidGerard | i.e. you can link forte modules to gcc modules for C in Solaris 10, and they aim for you to be able to link C++ in Solaris 11 | Apr 21 00:30 |
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| DavidGerard | thus ending one of the great pains in a solaris admin's life: stuff compiled with one compiler that won't work properly with stuff compiled with the other one, e.g. the operating system | Apr 21 00:30 |
| DavidGerard | i suppose that's driven by minimising sysadmin pain, which is how sun makes friends | Apr 21 00:30 |
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| DavidGerard | on a different topic, the ad on this mibbit window is: "Win Primark - Win a thousand pound Primark voucher! Free competition." | Apr 21 00:33 |
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| DavidGerard | i'm trying and failing to picture anyone buying €£1000 of primark in one go. | Apr 21 00:33 |
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| schestowitz | LOL | Apr 21 00:34 |
| schestowitz | Primark | Apr 21 00:34 |
| schestowitz | More like €£1 | Apr 21 00:35 |
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| schestowitz | So you can buy 1000 tshirts | Apr 21 00:35 |
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| schestowitz | by Dave Rosenberg forgot to include Novell in this list? http://news.cnet.com/8301-138... | Apr 21 00:40 |
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| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : congratulations for the new wiki style | Apr 21 00:44 |
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| ushimitsudoki1 | schestowitz: the original article referenced by Rosenberg is more interesting, but not much about software. AIG isn't going anywhere, it just intends to change names ala Gator -> Claria. I heard an intersting tidbit about it on a NPR radio show, which it why it caught my eye here | Apr 21 00:47 |
| schestowitz | Haliburton changed names too | Apr 21 00:48 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: thanks. The Wiki needs your help | Apr 21 00:48 |
| ushimitsudoki1 | Sadly, changing names is usually quite effective | Apr 21 00:48 |
| schestowitz | Open an account, swat typos, add pages, anything you see suitable | Apr 21 00:48 |
| schestowitz | ushimitsudoki1: it is | Apr 21 00:48 |
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| schestowitz | gn | Apr 21 00:57 |
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| balzac | Who thinks Sun would be doing better now if they'd released the Solaris kernel under GPLv3? | Apr 21 01:00 |
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| ushimitsudoki1 | balzac: we as a society would be doing better. it looks like it doesn't really matter for Sun anymore now, though, I'd say. | Apr 21 01:01 |
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| balzac | well, that's what can happen to companies which don't see the opportunity in embracing the gold standard of free software and open source software licenses | Apr 21 01:06 |
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| balzac | Sun made Solaris irrelevant with the CDDL | Apr 21 01:06 |
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| oiaohm | Ok any particular reason why boycott novell now goes to wiki schestowitz | Apr 21 01:07 |
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| balzac | We'll see if Larry Ellison and his giant yacht will be smarter | Apr 21 01:07 |
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| balzac | http://www.fsdaily.com/HighEnd/Intel... | Apr 21 01:07 |
| DavidGerard | i wonder if oracle will continue with btrfs, will make zfs suitable for linux or both | Apr 21 01:08 |
| oiaohm | Oracle coder working on btrfs does not particularly like zfs | Apr 21 01:08 |
| DavidGerard | schestowitz: you may want to take an archival copy of that tomboy blog post. it's getting quite a lot of flame comments. | Apr 21 01:08 |
| balzac | oiaohm: what do you think of the intel GCC news? | Apr 21 01:08 |
| oiaohm | Intel going into gcc is a clean up crew. | Apr 21 01:08 |
| balzac | schestowitz went offline | Apr 21 01:08 |
| oiaohm | Bit like intel going into X.org | Apr 21 01:09 |
| balzac | oiaohm: do not doubt the power of GNU | Apr 21 01:09 |
| balzac | I told you didn't I? | Apr 21 01:09 |
| oiaohm | Results are going to be intresting. The personal going in have years of complier development skills. | Apr 21 01:09 |
| oiaohm | Gcc is crap. | Apr 21 01:09 |
| oiaohm | It needs all the help it can get. | Apr 21 01:10 |
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| balzac | Open Sourcers will bow to the hairy-side of the force | Apr 21 01:10 |
| oiaohm | Intel will respect gcc licence. | Apr 21 01:10 |
| oiaohm | Intel has many good reasons to go in there. | Apr 21 01:10 |
| balzac | You cannot imagine the POWAH of GAH-NOO | Apr 21 01:11 |
| oiaohm | gcc produced binarys are slow performing things. So when atom processors and the like are benched marked on Linux they don't look as good as they could. | Apr 21 01:11 |
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| balzac | respect is due | Apr 21 01:11 |
| oiaohm | Intell Icc complier also barely sells. | Apr 21 01:11 |
| oiaohm | pgroup out sells intel in the complier world. | Apr 21 01:12 |
| balzac | GNU means Biznass | Apr 21 01:12 |
| oiaohm | We might see intel give up making there own complier. | Apr 21 01:12 |
| oiaohm | Do you know the faults of gcc balzac | Apr 21 01:12 |
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| oiaohm | Its founded on a stack of flawed ideas. | Apr 21 01:13 |
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| oiaohm | Lack of link time optimisation makes gcc bloated and slow. | Apr 21 01:13 |
| oiaohm | Lack of formal internal design followed makes gcc source code messy. | Apr 21 01:14 |
| oiaohm | Basically gcc has the same problems X.org has. | Apr 21 01:14 |
| oiaohm | There is nothing wrong with being open source but that is still no justification to poor project management. | Apr 21 01:14 |
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| balzac | oiaohm: looks like GCC has some juice | Apr 21 01:16 |
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| balzac | oiaohm: you're aware that almost every free software project starts technologically inferior to proprietary alternatives, right? | Apr 21 01:17 |
| mib_cdqu1o | organic growth | Apr 21 01:18 |
| balzac | not all, but quite a lot - they start small, but by the strength of that GNU license, they rise up to the challenge of their rival | Apr 21 01:18 |
| balzac | winning the fight for survival | Apr 21 01:18 |
| mib_cdqu1o | natural - evolutionary cs. design | Apr 21 01:18 |
| mib_cdqu1o | vs. | Apr 21 01:18 |
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| balzac | The strength of the Linux Kernel project was and remains the GNU license | Apr 21 01:19 |
| mib_cdqu1o | More a snow ball effect | Apr 21 01:19 |
| mib_cdqu1o | or a black hole | Apr 21 01:19 |
| mib_cdqu1o | software gravitation. | Apr 21 01:19 |
| balzac | mib_cdqu1o: you've got it | Apr 21 01:19 |
| balzac | it's the center of gravity which develops with a strong license which protects the code contributors from getting taken for a ride | Apr 21 01:20 |
| mib_cdqu1o | using, administration and development. no clear divide | Apr 21 01:20 |
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| balzac | As one tech writer puts it, the "disruptive technology" of GNU/Linux is GNU | Apr 21 01:20 |
| mib_cdqu1o | You want the pictures from your camera, so you hack an existing driver and publish your research ecc. | Apr 21 01:21 |
| mib_cdqu1o | No incentive in disclosure | Apr 21 01:21 |
| mib_cdqu1o | in non-disclosure | Apr 21 01:21 |
| oiaohm | Linux is evolution. | Apr 21 01:21 |
| oiaohm | Linux kernel is not as big as mess as gcc has got in places. | Apr 21 01:21 |
| mib_cdqu1o | you cannot kill development except with patents. | Apr 21 01:22 |
| oiaohm | evolution without some form of natural seletion is not good. | Apr 21 01:22 |
| mib_cdqu1o | invisible hand | Apr 21 01:22 |
| oiaohm | Gcc for years was ok you want to port do what you want to it. | Apr 21 01:22 |
| oiaohm | Don't care that it breaks the cross complier support | Apr 21 01:23 |
| mib_cdqu1o | good core and vital community. | Apr 21 01:23 |
| _boo_ | it's not documented properly, oiaohm | Apr 21 01:23 |
| balzac | oiaohm: why don't you just take a moment to feel the disturbance in the force | Apr 21 01:23 |
| oiaohm | Don't care that you are only surface is wrong. | Apr 21 01:23 |
| balzac | feel the gnu power, the hairy side of the force | Apr 21 01:23 |
| oiaohm | Difference between Linux and Gcc is a good maintainer. | Apr 21 01:23 |
| oiaohm | Lot of open source projects forgot the importance of the maintainer. | Apr 21 01:24 |
| oiaohm | The door keeper of quality. | Apr 21 01:24 |
| balzac | are you throwing your name in the hat? | Apr 21 01:24 |
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| oiaohm | Maintainer is a very specialised skill set. | Apr 21 01:25 |
| oiaohm | I am too blut to be a good Maintainer. | Apr 21 01:25 |
| balzac | blut you are | Apr 21 01:25 |
| mib_0b4emb | the maintainer is also responsible for all code & bug-fixes to said app | Apr 21 01:25 |
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| oiaohm | Main job of a good maintainer is not really doing the coding. | Apr 21 01:26 |
| oiaohm | For the large projects. | Apr 21 01:26 |
| oiaohm | Its more management. | Apr 21 01:26 |
| mib_0b4emb | yes, the maintainer should get more recognition | Apr 21 01:26 |
| oiaohm | Making sure patch quality is there. | Apr 21 01:26 |
| oiaohm | Making sure bugs are allocated to developers. | Apr 21 01:27 |
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| oiaohm | Making sure documentation gets made. | Apr 21 01:27 |
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| mib_0b4emb | i would still like to see roy put up a BN forum | Apr 21 01:28 |
| oiaohm | For good mainatiners most of the time one the project gets big they don't have time to write code. | Apr 21 01:28 |
| mib_cdqu1o | Microsoft reinvents the "Commons": http://seattletimes.nwsource.co... | Apr 21 01:28 |
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| balzac | good night | Apr 21 01:29 |
| mib_y46t88 | OpenSuse is best avoid then? | Apr 21 01:29 |
| mib_cdqu1o | http://www.englishbreakfastnetwo... | Apr 21 01:29 |
| balzac | yes, avoid it | Apr 21 01:29 |
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| mib_cdqu1o | come on | Apr 21 01:29 |
| mib_cdqu1o | Open Suse is fine because it will survive Novell. | Apr 21 01:30 |
| oiaohm | The other thing is the importances of those maintainers being paid full time to do it. | Apr 21 01:30 |
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| mib_y46t88 | Like this quote"Many SUSE developers have already left the building." :) | Apr 21 01:32 |
| oiaohm | I have watched projects over the years. The projects with good quality maintainers payed full time have developed faster than ones without it. | Apr 21 01:32 |
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| mib_cdqu1o | Novell systematically destroyed Suse which was by far the most consumer ready distribution | Apr 21 01:39 |
| oiaohm | Myth | Apr 21 01:40 |
| mib_cdqu1o | I still believe that Gnome is a conspiracy. | Apr 21 01:40 |
| oiaohm | Mandriva/Mandrake was always equal to Suse | Apr 21 01:40 |
| mib_cdqu1o | Ok, but Mandriva and Suse are in the same boat | Apr 21 01:40 |
| oiaohm | Suse was dieing before Novell took over. | Apr 21 01:41 |
| mib_cdqu1o | no | Apr 21 01:41 |
| oiaohm | It was. | Apr 21 01:41 |
| oiaohm | More people were using mandrake than it. | Apr 21 01:41 |
| mib_cdqu1o | :-) | Apr 21 01:41 |
| mib_cdqu1o | Listen son... | Apr 21 01:41 |
| oiaohm | Novell just speed it up. | Apr 21 01:41 |
| mib_cdqu1o | The consumer market doesn't commercially matter --yet | Apr 21 01:42 |
| mib_cdqu1o | What counts is servers. | Apr 21 01:42 |
| oiaohm | Then that is redhat. | Apr 21 01:42 |
| mib_cdqu1o | RedHat totally disengaged from the consumer market | Apr 21 01:42 |
| oiaohm | Again redhat was also kicking suse tail before Novell took over. | Apr 21 01:42 |
| mib_cdqu1o | Suse was THE kde distribution | Apr 21 01:42 |
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| oiaohm | I know the history of Suse well. | Apr 21 01:43 |
| mib_cdqu1o | and the Desktop leader at Novell became | Apr 21 01:43 |
| oiaohm | Not really. | Apr 21 01:43 |
| mib_cdqu1o | the anti-KDE technology troll | Apr 21 01:43 |
| mib_cdqu1o | everything worked fine | Apr 21 01:43 |
| oiaohm | mandrake always had a KDE isntall mode. | Apr 21 01:44 |
| oiaohm | Problem is I have been a KDE user for a Long time. | Apr 21 01:44 |
| mib_cdqu1o | Novell added red carpet | Apr 21 01:44 |
| oiaohm | I barely have used Suse. | Apr 21 01:44 |
| mib_g4ogvz | i'm not keen on mandrake | Apr 21 01:44 |
| mib_cdqu1o | Why? | Apr 21 01:44 |
| mib_cdqu1o | Because red carpet was developed by ximian. | Apr 21 01:44 |
| oiaohm | Novell aquired red carpet. | Apr 21 01:44 |
| mib_cdqu1o | Suse, the KDE distribution, with a loyal customer base. | Apr 21 01:45 |
| mib_cdqu1o | Nat and Icaza don't give a shit and standardise on Gnome. | Apr 21 01:45 |
| mib_cdqu1o | Because it is their technology | Apr 21 01:45 |
| mib_g4ogvz | Whats red carpet? | Apr 21 01:45 |
| mib_cdqu1o | This was not a customer demand | Apr 21 01:45 |
| oiaohm | gnome installer mib_g4ogvz | Apr 21 01:45 |
| mib_g4ogvz | OK thanks | Apr 21 01:46 |
| mib_cdqu1o | A half-baked ximian technology that broke your install | Apr 21 01:46 |
| mib_g4ogvz | sounds like a Windows in-place upgrade! | Apr 21 01:46 |
| mib_g4ogvz | that always messes up... | Apr 21 01:46 |
| mib_cdqu1o | Ximian = we write and own a technology preview, spread it, and then let the infected pay | Apr 21 01:46 |
| oiaohm | mib_g4ogvz: worse. | Apr 21 01:46 |
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| mib_cdqu1o | Or: next example | Apr 21 01:47 |
| oiaohm | I agree the idea to change from KDE to Gnome was stupid. | Apr 21 01:47 |
| mib_cdqu1o | It was not stupid per se. | Apr 21 01:48 |
| oiaohm | Suse was not the only distribution to make that mistake. | Apr 21 01:48 |
| mib_cdqu1o | Novell made the mistake for Suse | Apr 21 01:48 |
| oiaohm | It was stupid you users expect one thing change to something they don't expect and think you will keep market. | Apr 21 01:48 |
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| mib_cdqu1o | The whole gnome project is a divide et impera project. | Apr 21 01:49 |
| oiaohm | I really wish Icaza would not have a following. | Apr 21 01:49 |
| oiaohm | He as causes lots and lots of problems. | Apr 21 01:49 |
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| mib_cdqu1o | The problem is that he does not abide to european quality standards | Apr 21 01:50 |
| mib_g4ogvz | I was reading about Linspire here. That whole Linspire thing sounds so outdated now. | Apr 21 01:50 |
| mib_cdqu1o | Lindows | Apr 21 01:50 |
| mib_cdqu1o | It was announced as Lindows, then changed to Linspire. | Apr 21 01:50 |
| mib_cdqu1o | Question: Where is the Linspire source code gone? | Apr 21 01:50 |
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| oiaohm | After getting a big block of cash from MS to do that. | Apr 21 01:50 |
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| mib_g4ogvz | Yeah I mean things have matured now, there are many stable easy to use Linux OS now. | Apr 21 01:51 |
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| mib_cdqu1o | Same with United Linux = Turbo, Connectiva, Suse etc standardise their platform | Apr 21 01:51 |
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| mib_cdqu1o | Yes, and the problem of all the old distributions is rpm lock-in. | Apr 21 01:52 |
| mib_cdqu1o | Do you know MoonOs? | Apr 21 01:53 |
| oiaohm | LOL | Apr 21 01:53 |
| oiaohm | I don't call Linux desktop stable. | Apr 21 01:53 |
| mib_cdqu1o | It is just another Ubuntu derivate | Apr 21 01:53 |
| oiaohm | They are many key things that have to happen first. | Apr 21 01:53 |
| mib_g4ogvz | I'm listening....... | Apr 21 01:53 |
| oiaohm | Linux imported X11 internally its was crap. | Apr 21 01:53 |
| mib_cdqu1o | More tests? | Apr 21 01:54 |
| oiaohm | X.org driver subsystem rewrite has to complete. | Apr 21 01:54 |
| oiaohm | Linux kernel is slowly getting on top of its locking issues. | Apr 21 01:54 |
| oiaohm | and at some point the mess of the audio stack has to be taken on. | Apr 21 01:55 |
| mib_g4ogvz | What are locking issues? | Apr 21 01:55 |
| oiaohm | Causes system to pause when it should not mib_g4ogvz | Apr 21 01:55 |
| mib_cdqu1o | But I find no problems with audio anymore. | Apr 21 01:55 |
| mib_g4ogvz | OK | Apr 21 01:55 |
| mib_cdqu1o | Audio works out of the box | Apr 21 01:55 |
| oiaohm | Stick you nose in the source code of the audio driver stack. | Apr 21 01:55 |
| mib_cdqu1o | except when they try somethign new. | Apr 21 01:55 |
| oiaohm | It needs work. | Apr 21 01:55 |
| oiaohm | pulseaudio also need to go. | Apr 21 01:56 |
| oiaohm | Its a extra layor with features that should be in the main driver level. | Apr 21 01:56 |
| mib_cdqu1o | You mean a CUPS for audio | Apr 21 01:56 |
| oiaohm | CUPS being userspace makes perfect sence. | Apr 21 01:56 |
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| oiaohm | Most operations from cups is to userspace items. | Apr 21 01:57 |
| mib_cdqu1o | What I wonder is why there is no hub for one issue that deals with it completely | Apr 21 01:57 |
| oiaohm | X11 need to be fixed first. | Apr 21 01:57 |
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| mib_g4ogvz | I agree if you mean there needs to be 1 co-ordinating body for development. | Apr 21 01:58 |
| oiaohm | X11 like had a really major defect. Single thread emulating multing threat a core. | Apr 21 01:58 |
| mib_cdqu1o | Say one well funded project that is tasked to care about support for "all webcams" | Apr 21 01:58 |
| oiaohm | So tool kits like GTK were protecting X11 from it. | Apr 21 01:58 |
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| oiaohm | Instead of fixing X11. | Apr 21 01:58 |
| oiaohm | This is the problem. | Apr 21 01:58 |
| oiaohm | People have the dumb idea put another layer on top that will fix it. | Apr 21 01:58 |
| oiaohm | Don't fix the core. | Apr 21 01:59 |
| mib_cdqu1o | X.org | Apr 21 01:59 |
| oiaohm | X.org alterations move sections into kernel space where they should have been. | Apr 21 01:59 |
| oiaohm | So fixing up threading issues. Application accessing video card issues.... | Apr 21 01:59 |
| mib_cdqu1o | The problem is when you have the hackish hardware support bazar with x projects | Apr 21 02:00 |
| oiaohm | Running a service means that you have to get cpu time to the service so you can process application requests. | Apr 21 02:00 |
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| oiaohm | Running the same feature in kernel. | Apr 21 02:00 |
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| oiaohm | Processing the request comes out of the applications time. | Apr 21 02:00 |
| mib_g4ogvz | I think one body should take the role of co-ordinating what needs to be done, maybe FSF?? | Apr 21 02:00 |
| oiaohm | One body is not required. | Apr 21 02:00 |
| oiaohm | Simplely people stoping being stupid. | Apr 21 02:01 |
| oiaohm | You don't hack the tool kit level to fix a X11 problem. Instead you should fix the soruce. | Apr 21 02:01 |
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| mib_g4ogvz | Thats being optimistic:) | Apr 21 02:01 |
| oiaohm | You don't fix X11 confliting with other applications by staying userspace. | Apr 21 02:02 |
| oiaohm | That has happend. | Apr 21 02:02 |
| mib_g4ogvz | Interesting.... | Apr 21 02:02 |
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| oiaohm | We need equal to happen in the audio section of Linux. | Apr 21 02:02 |
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| oiaohm | they have had years of making sound servers and they have not learnt yet it is not the solution. | Apr 21 02:02 |
| oiaohm | X11 under the rebuild is more secure too. | Apr 21 02:03 |
| oiaohm | It no longer need to run as root. | Apr 21 02:03 |
| oiaohm | Secuirty is another thing users are overlooking. | Apr 21 02:04 |
| mib_cdqu1o | gurcoo syncronises some players but violates the coding sytels of bloo, Bla syncronises just your ipod, blbla is based on Funsung donated code but works with 50% of all fudzi players, blafoo is part of the KDE project, so Gnome develops its own solution, blopy makes python available | Apr 21 02:04 |
| oiaohm | Linux Desktop has never been secure. | Apr 21 02:04 |
| mib_cdqu1o | You see what I mean | Apr 21 02:04 |
| mib_cdqu1o | Hardware from the grounds up is bad. | Apr 21 02:04 |
| oiaohm | KDE and Gnome are working more with each other these days. | Apr 21 02:04 |
| mib_cdqu1o | You would need one hacker group that works just on say MP3 players | Apr 21 02:05 |
| mib_g4ogvz | Yeah it's a sorry mess really. Now that you explain it. Just seems to work for me though... | Apr 21 02:05 |
| mib_cdqu1o | does all the bindings | Apr 21 02:05 |
| oiaohm | Not really. How many MP3 players are the for windows. | Apr 21 02:05 |
| mib_cdqu1o | bottom-up doesn't work | Apr 21 02:05 |
| oiaohm | Low level API's must work correctly. | Apr 21 02:05 |
| mib_cdqu1o | CUPS is an example how the printer mess was solved | Apr 21 02:05 |
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| oiaohm | CUPS is a lower level thing. | Apr 21 02:06 |
| oiaohm | CUPS also does not really need kernel space. | Apr 21 02:06 |
| mib_cdqu1o | It was a project, there were 300 ways to print with 20 different drivers depending on the moon phase | Apr 21 02:06 |
| oiaohm | Network connected printers you really would not run drivers in kernel space. | Apr 21 02:06 |
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| mib_g4ogvz | Lol | Apr 21 02:06 |
| mib_cdqu1o | I am speaking of pre 2001 | Apr 21 02:06 |
| oiaohm | I started using Linux in 1995 | Apr 21 02:07 |
| oiaohm | cups was dominate back then. | Apr 21 02:07 |
| mib_cdqu1o | CUPS just solved it | Apr 21 02:07 |
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| oiaohm | Problem is audio guys use cups as an expample. | Apr 21 02:07 |
| oiaohm | audio is not printers. | Apr 21 02:07 |
| oiaohm | Minor delays don't effect printers. | Apr 21 02:08 |
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| mib_cdqu1o | Ah! | Apr 21 02:08 |
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| mib_cdqu1o | I see | Apr 21 02:08 |
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| mib_cdqu1o | From a consumer perspective: | Apr 21 02:08 |
| mib_cdqu1o | do I get sound at all | Apr 21 02:09 |
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| mib_cdqu1o | If I cannot play the ogg file, what is the reason | Apr 21 02:09 |
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| oiaohm | And why did the sound just click. | Apr 21 02:09 |
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| mib_cdqu1o | cable? | Apr 21 02:09 |
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| oiaohm | Just because I changed to a console. | Apr 21 02:09 |
| mib_cdqu1o | my software player? | Apr 21 02:09 |
| mib_cdqu1o | my kernel? | Apr 21 02:09 |
| mib_cdqu1o | my settings? | Apr 21 02:09 |
| mib_cdqu1o | do I have to install additional drivers? | Apr 21 02:10 |
| oiaohm | having pulseaudio + alsa gives confusion. | Apr 21 02:10 |
| oiaohm | Could be alsa it could be pulse | Apr 21 02:10 |
| mib_cdqu1o | Users believe in running code = sound | Apr 21 02:10 |
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| oiaohm | could be that pulse was not geting cpu time. | Apr 21 02:10 |
| oiaohm | So sound is badly laged. | Apr 21 02:11 |
| mib_cdqu1o | they like a certain music player when it does play the mp3 file | Apr 21 02:11 |
| oiaohm | Basically kernel is needed. So sound processing comes of the application sending it processing time. | Apr 21 02:11 |
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| mib_cdqu1o | and they think a player garbage if it does not play per default | Apr 21 02:11 |
| oiaohm | Sound server is just trouble. | Apr 21 02:11 |
| mib_cdqu1o | With the risk of overengineering | Apr 21 02:11 |
| oiaohm | Exactly the same way X11 is. | Apr 21 02:12 |
| mib_cdqu1o | of course | Apr 21 02:12 |
| mib_g4ogvz | Thanks 4 the info, heading 4 bed, goodnight. | Apr 21 02:12 |
| oiaohm | Future form of X11 will not have this problem. | Apr 21 02:12 |
| oiaohm | Applications will be able to directly write to screen by passing the X11 server. | Apr 21 02:12 |
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| mib_cdqu1o | Oh, I did this with my VGA card | Apr 21 02:13 |
| oiaohm | X11 server basically becomes 3 things remote sending, resource placement and configuration. | Apr 21 02:13 |
| mib_cdqu1o | assembler | Apr 21 02:13 |
| mib_cdqu1o | while the Unix freaks had their X-Server | Apr 21 02:13 |
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| oiaohm | All Unix's are taking on the New X11 design. | Apr 21 02:14 |
| oiaohm | Unix was not interested in desktop usage so X-server suxed. | Apr 21 02:14 |
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| mib_cdqu1o | How it it solved by Mac OS ? | Apr 21 02:15 |
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| mib_cdqu1o | What you forget is that X servers provide for features today hardly anyone uses. | Apr 21 02:17 |
| oiaohm | Mac OS droped X11 completely. | Apr 21 02:17 |
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| oiaohm | X server code resource management design is great. | Apr 21 02:17 |
| oiaohm | Embeded people have tried to design better for years. | Apr 21 02:18 |
| oiaohm | Every time they have returned to the X server design. | Apr 21 02:18 |
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| oiaohm | Sections of X server is good. | Apr 21 02:18 |
| oiaohm | Ok there is a lot of crap in there too mib_cdqu1o | Apr 21 02:18 |
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| oiaohm | wayland project is way smaller than current X11. It contains most of the good design bits of X11. | Apr 21 02:19 |
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| Ziggyfish | schestowitz, I do like the new home page, but just an idea, you should change the collors to suit the site better | Apr 21 03:44 |
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