04.27.09
IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: April 25th, 2009 – Part 1
To use your own IRC client, join channel #boycottnovell in FreeNode.
| The_Mad_Hatter | I’m a cynical SOB, don’t trust anyone. | Apr 25 00:01 |
|---|---|---|
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| seller_liar | I was thinking | Apr 25 00:42 |
| seller_liar | we need to port gnome-do to pyhton | Apr 25 00:42 |
| schestowitz | Is ti trivial? | Apr 25 00:43 |
| seller_liar | because ubuntu someday can try to put gnome-do | Apr 25 00:44 |
| schestowitz | There can’t be much code there. | Apr 25 00:44 |
| schestowitz | Why not Katapult? | Apr 25 00:44 |
| seller_liar | We need change this ASAP | Apr 25 00:44 |
| seller_liar | is kde dependent | Apr 25 00:44 |
| seller_liar | wait | Apr 25 00:44 |
| seller_liar | there are gnome lauchbox | Apr 25 00:46 |
| seller_liar | http://developer.imendio.com/… | Apr 25 00:46 |
| seller_liar | but is very old | Apr 25 00:46 |
| seller_liar | but we can continue the development | Apr 25 00:46 |
| seller_liar | seller_liar: but | Apr 25 00:50 |
| seller_liar | If continue this development ,I will use new techniques | Apr 25 00:51 |
| seller_liar | like ctalk and aspect c | Apr 25 00:51 |
| seller_liar | Programming in c is very slow | Apr 25 00:51 |
| schestowitz | hold on | Apr 25 00:51 |
| seller_liar | We can deestroy gnome-do | Apr 25 00:51 |
| schestowitz | OK | Apr 25 00:53 |
| schestowitz | Got distracted | Apr 25 00:53 |
| schestowitz | JFK talk.. | Apr 25 00:53 |
| schestowitz | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWL9mF6E… | Apr 25 00:53 |
| schestowitz | seller_liar: yes, better to override mono projects | Apr 25 00:54 |
| schestowitz | You can’t extinguish patent traps | Apr 25 00:54 |
| schestowitz | But you can help keep them out of packagers of distros like Ubuntu | Apr 25 00:54 |
| schestowitz | More people should lobby for removal too | Apr 25 00:54 |
| schestowitz | Using TomTom as backing, too | Apr 25 00:54 |
| seller_liar | schestowitz: Miguel and other mono people is in fury because he does not hear trtolls ,but they hears developers | Apr 25 00:55 |
| schestowitz | Yes, I know. | Apr 25 00:56 |
| schestowitz | Keep the information coming | Apr 25 00:56 |
| schestowitz | People are not as stupid as Microsoft &turncoats need them be | Apr 25 00:56 |
| seller_liar | why jo shields is fan of mone | Apr 25 00:57 |
| seller_liar | why jo shields is fan of mono | Apr 25 00:57 |
| seller_liar | I never have seen such stupid people like directhex | Apr 25 00:58 |
| schestowitz | I don’t know. | Apr 25 00:59 |
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| schestowitz | I think they are too deep indenial | Apr 25 01:00 |
| schestowitz | So even if the signs are on the wall (e.g. tomtom suit), they’ll perfume as much as necessary their own choices to defend vested interests that developed | Apr 25 01:00 |
| seller_liar_ | the big problem is mono is not default gnome api | Apr 25 01:01 |
| seller_liar_ | only c,c++ and python are | Apr 25 01:01 |
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| seller_liar_ | novell de icaza tries to force mono to be another default api for gnome | Apr 25 01:02 |
| seller_liar_ | there are more mono apps than python apps | Apr 25 01:02 |
| schestowitz | Novell needs it | Apr 25 01:04 |
| schestowitz | More leverage over GNU desktop | Apr 25 01:04 |
| seller_liar_ | hell , this is a great problem in sponsored projects | Apr 25 01:05 |
| seller_liar_ | someday we will need to takedown gnome | Apr 25 01:05 |
| seller_liar_ | seller_liar_: but it’s not a good solution | Apr 25 01:07 |
| schestowitz | I’ve got to go to sleep now | Apr 25 01:07 |
| schestowitz | seller_liar_: it’s not a solutoon at all | Apr 25 01:07 |
| seller_liar_ | schestowitz: ok , bye | Apr 25 01:07 |
| schestowitz | They’ll just poison something else | Apr 25 01:07 |
| schestowitz | Get rid of the cdronie | Apr 25 01:07 |
| schestowitz | Like the Icaza who want to work for Microsoft,. fail, and then start GNOME | Apr 25 01:07 |
| schestowitz | Or Novell, whose board and menegement is filled with MS-sympathetic lackeys | Apr 25 01:07 |
| schestowitz | Novell is poison inside the Linux world | Apr 25 01:08 |
| schestowitz | Orwalce remains tohave it real face shown | Apr 25 01:08 |
| schestowitz | gn | Apr 25 01:08 |
| seller_liar_ | schestowitz: gn | Apr 25 01:08 |
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| _Hicham_ | hi schestowitz | Apr 25 01:17 |
| MinceR | gn | Apr 25 01:18 |
| _Hicham_ | no trolls in here | Apr 25 01:18 |
| _Hicham_ | ? | Apr 25 01:18 |
| tessier_ | Did you check under the bridge? | Apr 25 01:18 |
| _Hicham_ | which bridge? | Apr 25 01:19 |
| tessier_ | The one the trolls live under. | Apr 25 01:20 |
| _Hicham_ | ha ha | Apr 25 01:21 |
| _Hicham_ | trolling is not that after all | Apr 25 01:21 |
| _Hicham_ | it is not that bad | Apr 25 01:22 |
| *tessier_ serves up some nice warm trollhouse cookies | Apr 25 01:26 | |
| seller_liar_ | _Hicham_: What you talking about? | Apr 25 01:29 |
| _Hicham_ | sellar_liar : trolling from time to time | Apr 25 01:29 |
| seller_liar_ | _Hicham_: No, I ‘m not .Only sometimes I have nothing talk maybe | Apr 25 01:30 |
| _Hicham_ | then troll | Apr 25 01:30 |
| _Hicham_ | better than staying silent | Apr 25 01:30 |
| seller_liar_ | Why am I trolling ? | Apr 25 01:31 |
| _Hicham_ | no, ur not | Apr 25 01:32 |
| seller_liar_ | _Hicham_: I’m not a troll ,What was trying to say is use mono alternatives or port mono apps | Apr 25 01:33 |
| _Hicham_ | I never said that ur a troll | Apr 25 01:34 |
| _Hicham_ | there is no mono alternative in Linux | Apr 25 01:34 |
| _Hicham_ | dotgnu is far from being complete | Apr 25 01:35 |
| seller_liar_ | _Hicham_: Mono some years ago was like dotgnu | Apr 25 01:35 |
| seller_liar_ | _Hicham_: We can promote dot gnu | Apr 25 01:35 |
| _Hicham_ | why use .NET from the start? | Apr 25 01:36 |
| seller_liar_ | _Hicham_: Don t try convince me .Try to convince all stupid people of world | Apr 25 01:37 |
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| mib_o7068c | It’s possible to create a distro completely mono-free using py-gtk-,gtkmm and libboost | Apr 25 02:28 |
| mib_o7068c | Pinot is a good alternative to Beagle and uses gtkmm and libboost | Apr 25 02:29 |
| mib_o7068c | http://pinot.berlios.de/index.html | Apr 25 02:30 |
| mib_o7068c | Deluge uses py-gtk and libboost | Apr 25 02:30 |
| mib_o7068c | gnote uses gtkmm and uses libboost/ | Apr 25 02:30 |
| mib_o7068c | I have put a alternative of secondlife called Cobalt | Apr 25 02:33 |
| mib_o7068c | Cobalt is very powerful virtual world engine developed in Smalltalk(!) | Apr 25 02:33 |
| Balrog | is Cobalt compatible with Second Life’s engine? | Apr 25 02:42 |
| Balrog | Smalltalk!?! What compiler are they using? | Apr 25 02:43 |
| mib_o7068c | no, but this is a virtual world | Apr 25 02:43 |
| mib_o7068c | and even better than second life | Apr 25 02:43 |
| Balrog | cool. Now get people to use it  |
Apr 25 02:43 |
| Balrog | what compiler? | Apr 25 02:43 |
| mib_o7068c | squeak small talk is a smalltalk vm ,meta-circular and fast | Apr 25 02:43 |
| mib_o7068c | all free software | Apr 25 02:43 |
| mib_o7068c | cobalt and squeak are weak copyleft free software | Apr 25 02:44 |
| mib_o7068c | www.squeak.org | Apr 25 02:44 |
| mib_o7068c | The last replacemente what we need is…..a media player done in gtk | Apr 25 02:49 |
| mib_o7068c | We need change some mono apps descriptions | Apr 25 02:52 |
| mib_o7068c | We put a licence description and put some criticism | Apr 25 02:52 |
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| mib_o7068c | look ,I have add some descriptions and criticism about banshee | Apr 25 03:02 |
| mib_o7068c | http://boycottnovell.com/wiki/index.php?t… | Apr 25 03:02 |
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| Omar87 | schestowitz: I thought you were going to talk about Oracle’s acquisition of Sun on BN, but you haven’t. Why? | Apr 25 03:18 |
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| So … I wonder who was dumb enough to buy M$FT at $21 per share | Apr 25 03:54 | |
| oiaohm_ | Lots | Apr 25 03:55 |
| so much for so many 401K retirement plans. ho ho, what a way to waste your money. | Apr 25 03:56 | |
| oiaohm_ | Idea is that windows 7 will sell | Apr 25 03:57 |
| oiaohm_ | http://www.osnews.com/comments/21372 Maybe it will. | Apr 25 03:57 |
| oiaohm_ | Odds are against it. | Apr 25 03:59 |
| ushimitsudoki1 | That is quite clever of Microsoft. It addresses backwards-compatibility complaints and (naturally) introduces their virtualization solution to a bunch of home users who probably don’t even know what virtualization is. | Apr 25 04:00 |
| ushimitsudoki1 | It does open up the question that if Win7 comes with a full-fledged version of WinXP, why not just stay with WinXP in the first place? But skipping one MS OS is one thing, but skipping two is a lot to expect from a company. | Apr 25 04:01 |
| I don’t think it will sell even as well as Vista did. There are no channels left to stuff because all the retail partners failed on Vista stuffing. | Apr 25 04:02 | |
| ushimitsudoki1 | I hope you are right. If Win7 is a flop like Vista, it will open the door for Linux (and Apple) that much wider. If, however, it comes off as a “comeback” release, it will slow down the adoption rate. | Apr 25 04:03 |
| LOL, they are trying to sell Vista 7 by selling a VM copy of XP? Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. | Apr 25 04:04 | |
| ushimitsudoki1 | Yup. It’s actually clever of them I think. It accomplishes several things for MS at very little cost. | Apr 25 04:05 |
| oiaohm_ | Make computer maintainer ship in networks worse. | Apr 25 04:05 |
| Very clever… here XP user, you can get XP that’s better than XP in our VM. Worked great for OS/2. | Apr 25 04:06 | |
| oiaohm_ | They also want to stop people using downgrade rights. | Apr 25 04:06 |
| ushimitsudoki1 | At MPAA request, judge kicks public out of RealDVD court: http://government.zdnet.com/?p=4702 (Judge says DVD encryption details are trade secrets and must be protected) | Apr 25 04:06 |
| People who want to use a VM will just use Wine, Virtual Box or any of the other known good solutions. | Apr 25 04:06 | |
| Windows 7 is a terrible host | Apr 25 04:07 | |
| ushimitsudoki1 | twitter: no they won’t. that’s the point. By stuffing MS’s VM solutions, this allows them to introduce virtualization to a whole class of users for the first time. | Apr 25 04:07 |
| oiaohm_ | It also make the idea of running windows 7 in Virtual box seam more normal to window users. | Apr 25 04:08 |
| XP users are not going to want to buy a new computer and new OS just so they can run the same old shit. | Apr 25 04:08 | |
| ushimitsudoki1 | Being a terrible host is not important. It’s bundling, just like like with media players and browsers. | Apr 25 04:08 |
| oiaohm_ | MS is really not thinking about what they are doing. | Apr 25 04:08 |
| or most of the same old shit because you and I both know that it won’t all run. | Apr 25 04:08 | |
| oiaohm_ | Its also prep for next step. | Apr 25 04:09 |
| oiaohm_ | .net core OS. | Apr 25 04:09 |
| They won’t be around long enough for that to happen. | Apr 25 04:10 | |
| ushimitsudoki1 | MS has a *lot* of years in front of them. | Apr 25 04:11 |
| oiaohm_ | Depends what you call a lot. | Apr 25 04:12 |
| ushimitsudoki1 | At least 25 years. | Apr 25 04:12 |
| ushimitsudoki1 | At the absolute least. | Apr 25 04:12 |
| oiaohm_ | I would not say that long. | Apr 25 04:13 |
| Eruaran | I don’t like mouldy sandwiches | Apr 25 04:13 |
| Eruaran | Things can change fast | Apr 25 04:13 |
| oiaohm_ | Secound wave of netbooks will show how strong MS real is. | Apr 25 04:13 |
| Eruaran | Corporations that one day appear unassailable, tomorrow are gone. | Apr 25 04:13 |
| oiaohm_ | Also it will depend if Orcale gets any ideas about the desktop too. | Apr 25 04:14 |
| ushimitsudoki1 | No they don’t. For christ sakes, SCO and Enron are still around and they have done everything except drink koolaid in jonestown to try to kill theirselves off. Assuming MS *intentionally* decided to self-destruct, it would still take a decade for them to be reduced to insignificance. | Apr 25 04:15 |
| Eruaran | SCO is effectively gone. It is a shell. | Apr 25 04:15 |
| oiaohm_ | How much control does SCO have on market. | Apr 25 04:15 |
| oiaohm_ | None. | Apr 25 04:15 |
| oiaohm_ | SCO is basically having the crap pounded out of it to give fear to any other company with the dumb idea of attacking Linux. | Apr 25 04:16 |
| Eruaran | When I say “gone”, it doesn’t matter if the company technically still exists… they’re gone in a very real sense. | Apr 25 04:16 |
| oiaohm_ | If SCO was not been made an example of someone would have aquired them and got rid of them that way. | Apr 25 04:16 |
| ushimitsudoki1 | They are still around and were a thousandth the size of MS and ten-thousand times as stupid. The point is that every small percentage of market share lost by Microsoft is a good victory. I think if people expect Microsoft to be reduced to irrelevancy in 5 years, they will be disappointed. | Apr 25 04:16 |
| Eruaran | The bigger they are, the harder they fall. | Apr 25 04:17 |
| ushimitsudoki1 | It’s about expectation management. If you have unrealistic goals, people will be disappointed. | Apr 25 04:17 |
| oiaohm_ | Apple was pushed from top of heap to irrelevency in 3. | Apr 25 04:17 |
| ushimitsudoki1 | Apple was never on the top of the heap. Ever. | Apr 25 04:17 |
| oiaohm_ | It was in media production ushimitsudoki1 | Apr 25 04:18 |
| ushimitsudoki1 | [citation needed] | Apr 25 04:18 |
| Eruaran | Apple once had 51% desktop market share. | Apr 25 04:18 |
| Apple dominated the early computing market. | Apr 25 04:18 | |
| ushimitsudoki1 | [citation needed] | Apr 25 04:18 |
| See Apple I and II | Apr 25 04:18 | |
| also see Mac | Apr 25 04:18 | |
| I remember them all. | Apr 25 04:19 | |
| oiaohm_ | MS is the secound company dominate on the desktop. | Apr 25 04:19 |
| oiaohm_ | Not the first. | Apr 25 04:19 |
| Actually, M$ is the third. | Apr 25 04:19 | |
| ushimitsudoki1 | Apple I had about 200 units produced. That is hardly massive market share. | Apr 25 04:19 |
| IBM was the second. M$ was a flunky along for the ride | Apr 25 04:19 | |
| ushimitsudoki1 | Please guys, keep the goals realistic. | Apr 25 04:19 |
| oiaohm_ | In desktop publishing Apple was dominate. | Apr 25 04:19 |
| oiaohm_ | 3 years from being dominate in that field to basically nothing. | Apr 25 04:20 |
| oiaohm_ | It world can be savage. | Apr 25 04:20 |
| oiaohm_ | MS is a company at high risk. | Apr 25 04:21 |
| M$ won’t be here 20 years from now. | Apr 25 04:21 | |
| ushimitsudoki1 | Apple I had about 200 machine. Apple II (the entire series from 1977-1993) about 5-6 million. You really want to stick to “Apple dominated the early computing market”? | Apr 25 04:21 |
| oiaohm_ | Almost all its competors theses days are in job production. | Apr 25 04:21 |
| buying M$FT is pure folly if you want something to retire on. | Apr 25 04:21 | |
| oiaohm_ | Yes hardware production. | Apr 25 04:21 |
| oiaohm_ | Apple dominated a particular segment ushimitsudoki1 | Apr 25 04:22 |
| ushimitsudoki1 | In comparison there were about 30 million Commodore64 machines | Apr 25 04:22 |
| ushimitsudoki1 | So, please. | Apr 25 04:22 |
| Commodore64 was a game | Apr 25 04:23 | |
| oiaohm_ | Is commodore any more either. | Apr 25 04:23 |
| Apple II was a computer as we know it. | Apr 25 04:23 | |
| Eruaran | Oh I had it wrong… the Amiga was bigger at one point  |
Apr 25 04:23 |
| Eruaran | But there’s an example.. | Apr 25 04:24 |
| oiaohm_ | Amiga we are only starting to catch up with some of its tech. | Apr 25 04:24 |
| Eruaran | What happened to Commodore… | Apr 25 04:24 |
| Eruaran | yes | Apr 25 04:24 |
| oiaohm_ | Nothing is set in stone. | Apr 25 04:24 |
| oiaohm_ | MS location of dominance is not supported by being hardware producers these days. | Apr 25 04:25 |
| oiaohm_ | MS use to have Intel in there pocket. | Apr 25 04:25 |
| Eruaran | The Amiga is one of my all time favorite computers… such a tragedy it was… | Apr 25 04:25 |
| M$ is not supported by anything. | Apr 25 04:25 | |
| oiaohm_ | Without hardware support no matter how good a OS is it will die. | Apr 25 04:25 |
| Eruaran | <oiaohm_> MS location of dominance is not supported by being hardware producers these days. <– Yes, this is a crucial point. | Apr 25 04:26 |
| ushimitsudoki1 | The point is that in no way at all could the Apple I or II be used as a an example of 51% market share or “dominating the early computer market”. You can’t just spit out random statistics and made-up facts. | Apr 25 04:26 |
| Eruaran | I already said I had that wrong | Apr 25 04:26 |
| oiaohm_ | ushimitsudoki1: tell me how much netbook makers want to pay for a OS and Office suit. | Apr 25 04:26 |
| ushimitsudoki1 | oiaohm_: $0. | Apr 25 04:27 |
| oiaohm_ | Yep. | Apr 25 04:27 |
| oiaohm_ | They are hardware makers. Can MS live on 0. | Apr 25 04:27 |
| ushimitsudoki1 | Nope. | Apr 25 04:27 |
| oiaohm_ | So MS has a problem. | Apr 25 04:27 |
| oiaohm_ | If they cannot solve it they could disappear quicky. | Apr 25 04:28 |
| ushimitsudoki1 | Yup. I’m not arguing that. MS has *lots* of problems. I’m just trying to make the point that it is unrealistic to expect MS to disappear next year or something like that. They have *enourmous* reserves and legacy users to rely on. | Apr 25 04:28 |
| Eruaran | The days of obscene profits for Microsoft are gone. | Apr 25 04:28 |
| oiaohm_ | Problem here is Orcale spends 10 billion a year aquiring companies. | Apr 25 04:29 |
| Eruaran | Never said anything like “the next year” | Apr 25 04:29 |
| oiaohm_ | MS could come a risk of a hostile take over in the next 5 years. | Apr 25 04:29 |
| Eruaran | But the biggest corps can fall and become irrelevant faster than you would expect. | Apr 25 04:29 |
| ushimitsudoki1 | How long would you expect it to take MS to become irrelvant then? | Apr 25 04:29 |
| *ushimitsudoki1 is now known as ushimitsudoki | Apr 25 04:29 | |
| Eruaran | No idea. | Apr 25 04:30 |
| oiaohm_ | MS could be irrelvant in under 2 years. | Apr 25 04:30 |
| ushimitsudoki | No way. | Apr 25 04:30 |
| ushimitsudoki | That is not possible. | Apr 25 04:30 |
| oiaohm_ | Yes way. | Apr 25 04:30 |
| M$ is already irrelevant | Apr 25 04:30 | |
| Vista failed. | Apr 25 04:30 | |
| Windows 7 is failure part 2 | Apr 25 04:30 | |
| oiaohm_ | Market is moving away from x86 processors. | Apr 25 04:31 |
| oiaohm_ | Windows only runs on x86 processors. | Apr 25 04:31 |
| oiaohm_ | So its platform is gone. | Apr 25 04:31 |
| ushimitsudoki | You seriously think MS is *already* irrelevant? Seriously? | Apr 25 04:31 |
| Eruaran | You have an entire market struggling to get out from under Microsoft’s thumb, and what Microsoft is doing to maintain the appearance of domination is not sustainable. | Apr 25 04:31 |
| ushimitsudoki | Right now, Microsoft is *irrelevant* in the computer industry? | Apr 25 04:31 |
| Eruaran | The old tactics aren’t sustainable any more. | Apr 25 04:31 |
| oiaohm_ | OS without hardware becomes completely irrelevant really quickly. | Apr 25 04:31 |
| Like someone else pointed out, by the time M$ makes Windows 7 work on $400 netbooks, Ubuntu will be flooding the market with $200 ARM netbooks. | Apr 25 04:32 | |
| It’s game over. | Apr 25 04:32 | |
| oiaohm_ | ARM is aiming for 100 dollars. | Apr 25 04:32 |
| Eruaran | The only thing that can save Microsoft into the future is a shareholder revolt and a serious changing of the guard at the top. | Apr 25 04:32 |
| oiaohm_ | MIPS and ARM are both going to battle in that market too. | Apr 25 04:32 |
| ushimitsudoki | Eruaran: Yes, I agree completely that if MS continues current or past tactics they will fade ever quicker. | Apr 25 04:32 |
| No one is writing software for Vista. | Apr 25 04:33 | |
| There are actually more commercial GNU/Linux programmers than there are Vista programmers. | Apr 25 04:33 | |
| ushimitsudoki | But at the same time it is foolish to say things like MS will be irrelevant in 2 years or is already irrelevant. That is wishful thinking *at best*, and unrealistic. You can’t defeat an enemy without a *realistic* assessment of them. | Apr 25 04:34 |
| oiaohm_ | MS though they had until 2012 to get a cross processor OS out. | Apr 25 04:34 |
| oiaohm_ | We are 5 years in ushimitsudoki to MS becoming irrelevant. | Apr 25 04:35 |
| Eruaran | The market is changing. The best positioned OS now is the one that runs on the most architectures. | Apr 25 04:35 |
| My assessment of Windows could not be more realistic. It sucks. | Apr 25 04:35 | |
| I don’t need it. | Apr 25 04:35 | |
| No one needs it. | Apr 25 04:35 | |
| ushimitsudoki | Yes they do. Many companies need it. If you do business with the US government you need it. You can’t just wipe away reality like that. | Apr 25 04:35 |
| Bullshit. | Apr 25 04:36 | |
| oiaohm_ | Do you need windows if wine works ushimitsudoki | Apr 25 04:36 |
| oiaohm_ | Simple fact no. | Apr 25 04:36 |
| You don’t need Windows to do business with anyone. | Apr 25 04:36 | |
| All you need is money. | Apr 25 04:36 | |
| goods and services. | Apr 25 04:36 | |
| ushimitsudoki | I am a government contractor. Believe me when I tell you you need Windows. Wine will not do it. I have to keep WinXP in VirtualBox. There is no alternative. | Apr 25 04:36 |
| oiaohm_ | At this time yes ushimitsudoki | Apr 25 04:36 |
| ushimitsudoki | It’s not fair that MS technology is required, but you can’t just dismiss it, either. | Apr 25 04:36 |
| oiaohm_ | What MS tech is required. | Apr 25 04:37 |
| What government agency is so stupid | Apr 25 04:37 | |
| ? | Apr 25 04:37 | |
| ushimitsudoki | Many are, would you like a very specific example? | Apr 25 04:37 |
| That’s the question I asked | Apr 25 04:37 | |
| oiaohm_ | USA is also behind where lots of the rest of world are. | Apr 25 04:37 |
| oiaohm_ | Lot of goverments are untied from MS tech. | Apr 25 04:38 |
| ushimitsudoki | The GSA has an online site where you must submit items to an online catalog. This is a contracting requirement. They provide the software (SIP). It is windows only. It will not run in Wine. | Apr 25 04:38 |
| oiaohm_ | What percentage of the world would this effect. | Apr 25 04:38 |
| ushimitsudoki | There are a ton of little shit applications like this, where the use is *mandated* and the software only runs on Windows. | Apr 25 04:39 |
| oiaohm_ | Solutions like http://www.ulteo.com also provides ways out of that. | Apr 25 04:39 |
| oiaohm_ | So desktops run Linux network virtual machine to interface with crap. | Apr 25 04:39 |
| ushimitsudoki | I just said I use VirtualBox. | Apr 25 04:39 |
| ushimitsudoki | You still have to have Windows somewhere. | Apr 25 04:39 |
| oiaohm_ | Very small ammount. | Apr 25 04:39 |
| oiaohm_ | Reduced to like under 1 percent when apple was call not important. | Apr 25 04:40 |
| oiaohm_ | That 1 percent could also been cleaned up by reactos. | Apr 25 04:40 |
| oiaohm_ | So leaving nothing for MS at all. | Apr 25 04:40 |
| ushimitsudoki | Here is another Goverment example. Many goverment IT jobs require A+, Security+ and/or Network+. As you know these are largely MS-orientated certifications. | Apr 25 04:40 |
| ushimitsudoki | But these are *requirements* by the governement. There isn’t any getting around them. You just shut up and get certified. | Apr 25 04:41 |
| oiaohm_ | Reactos clone of windows ushimitsudoki | Apr 25 04:41 |
| oiaohm_ | FOSS has not been planing a 1 sided attack. | Apr 25 04:42 |
| Eruaran | We deal with government (mainly education) fairly regularly | Apr 25 04:42 |
| Eruaran | No certs required | Apr 25 04:42 |
| Change is coming to the US government. A mac user is in the White House. | Apr 25 04:42 | |
| oiaohm_ | In 2 years MS could be against the wall being shot. | Apr 25 04:43 |
| oiaohm_ | 2010 secound wave downturn is going to force a lot of goverments to re think there MS costs. | Apr 25 04:43 |
| They are already up against what amounts to a boycott | Apr 25 04:43 | |
| no one is buying their crap | Apr 25 04:43 | |
| ushimitsudoki | It is DoD 8570.01-M that lists the cert requirements by the government. | Apr 25 04:44 |
| Eruaran | I think things may soon get tougher for Microsoft in Europe… the EC has some interesting reading material at its desposal right now. | Apr 25 04:44 |
| oiaohm_ | ushimitsudoki: they might now. | Apr 25 04:44 |
| oiaohm_ | 2010 is going to make 2008 downturn look like a walk in the park. | Apr 25 04:44 |
| Eruaran | *disposal | Apr 25 04:44 |
| ushimitsudoki | I’m trying to make a point that MS is *required* for some business and government work. I said it before and someone called “Bullshit” on me. | Apr 25 04:45 |
| oiaohm_ | Companies simple will not be able to aford MS Windows. | Apr 25 04:45 |
| oiaohm_ | MS is not required. | Apr 25 04:45 |
| ushimitsudoki | It is bullshit that it is required, but that is the way it is. | Apr 25 04:45 |
| oiaohm_ | There are solutions to avoid it. | Apr 25 04:45 |
| no, it’s not the way it is. | Apr 25 04:45 | |
| oiaohm_ | Ok not complete at this stage but should complete in the next 2 years. | Apr 25 04:45 |
| it’s the way some idiots think it is. | Apr 25 04:45 | |
| ushimitsudoki | Yes it fucking is. I just pointed the goddamn regulations out to you. You can not do business with the US goverment with out using some MS technology. | Apr 25 04:46 |
| oiaohm_ | So effectively makeing all that MS requirement crap. | Apr 25 04:46 |
| I don’t do that kind of business | Apr 25 04:46 | |
| but I think you could do it with one idiot box in the corner | Apr 25 04:46 | |
| *silentivm has quit (“leaving”) | Apr 25 04:46 | |
| oiaohm_ | ushimitsudoki: if you can run the needed programs would you need MS. | Apr 25 04:46 |
| oiaohm_ | Answer no. | Apr 25 04:47 |
| The rest of your business could be liberated. | Apr 25 04:47 | |
| The sooner you liberate the things you can, the better off you are | Apr 25 04:47 | |
| ushimitsudoki | So, every government contractor will just stop doing business with the government? Again, I’m trying to tell you to take a realistic view on things. It is not realistic just to wave your hands and declare MS “irrelevant”. It is something that needs to be worked towards, and will take a long time and a lot of effort. | Apr 25 04:47 |
| oiaohm_ | No contractors use other tech. | Apr 25 04:47 |
| oiaohm_ | That allows them to do business with USA without needing MS. | Apr 25 04:48 |
| oiaohm_ | That is what is on the time table for 2010. | Apr 25 04:48 |
| oiaohm_ | MS could be 100 percent irrelevant in 2 years. | Apr 25 04:48 |
| oiaohm_ | As long as tech is delived on time table. | Apr 25 04:49 |
| ushimitsudoki | “could be” in the same sense as I “could be” the king of england and just not know it? Or “could be” in the sense of things that could reasonably be expected? | Apr 25 04:49 |
| oiaohm_ | It could be reasonably expected. | Apr 25 04:49 |
| It’s perfectly realistic to limit your use of Windows to one or two required ass pains. | Apr 25 04:50 | |
| oiaohm_ | Untils something happens to cause a delay it will be ready in 2 years. | Apr 25 04:50 |
| the vast majority of your emplyoees don’t need the trouble | Apr 25 04:50 | |
| ushimitsudoki | twitter: very true. that is exactly what I do. | Apr 25 04:50 |
| So, realistically, the vast majority of Windows is unneeded | Apr 25 04:51 | |
| oiaohm_ | Cost cutting will force the unneeded to be removed. | Apr 25 04:51 |
| ushimitsudoki | twitter: yes, but that needs a little discussion too | Apr 25 04:51 |
| That means that M$ is already irrelevant | Apr 25 04:51 | |
| If you don’t need it and it’s expensive, it’s over. | Apr 25 04:52 | |
| oiaohm_ | Problem here is MS need a min proft point to maintain there OS. | Apr 25 04:52 |
| ushimitsudoki | For example, if the majority of IT people (sys admins, CIOs, etc) were dedicated to relegating Windows to only what was absolutely needed, and putting say Linux on everything else, it would be one thing. | Apr 25 04:52 |
| oiaohm_ | If MS drops to less than 1 percent of market they will have trouble. | Apr 25 04:53 |
| M$ already has lost the ability to maintain and improve their OS. | Apr 25 04:53 | |
| oiaohm_ | So just using Windows where is absolutely need is killing MS. | Apr 25 04:53 |
| ushimitsudoki | However, that’s not a realistic picture of how most IT people are. Sadly, most IT people *only* know Windows, and don’t really understand anything at all about computers or networking or whatever. They just know to click a button. These people are not likely to start *reducing* dependence on Microsoft, *unless* Linux offers superior alternatives (superior here can mean many things) | Apr 25 04:54 |
| oiaohm_ | Majority in a world sence are going that way ushimitsudoki | Apr 25 04:54 |
| ushimitsudoki | And, in order to offer “superior” alternatives, we must take realistic stock of what MS currently offers, so that a better alternative can be presented. | Apr 25 04:54 |
| oiaohm_ | USA is on the outer edges. | Apr 25 04:54 |
| oiaohm_ | Its like netbooks. | Apr 25 04:55 |
| ushimitsudoki | I hope I am making a point here that is understandable? | Apr 25 04:55 |
| oiaohm_ | Linux based netbooks barely sell in the usa. | Apr 25 04:55 |
| oiaohm_ | Some other countries linux netbooks are over 80 percent of the market. | Apr 25 04:55 |
| GNU/Linux already offers vastly superior alternatives to most M$ stuff | Apr 25 04:55 | |
| oiaohm_ | USA is behind. | Apr 25 04:55 |
| the only problem are niche applications, but even those are falling away. | Apr 25 04:56 | |
| oiaohm_ | Why does a alternative has to be superior | Apr 25 04:56 |
| oiaohm_ | That is a USA stupidity. | Apr 25 04:56 |
| oiaohm_ | alternative only has to be good enough. | Apr 25 04:56 |
| ushimitsudoki | twitter: I think so – but convincing windows-monkeys of that is difficult. But, no matter how frustrating, it is necessary. You have to convert people by convincing them, not by berating or ridiculing them. | Apr 25 04:56 |
| good enough is not good enough if it costs more. GNU/Linux is both better and cheaper. | Apr 25 04:57 | |
| Who’s ridiculing anyone? | Apr 25 04:57 | |
| ushimitsudoki | It is not a “USA stupidity”. It is simple logic: people will not change for no advantage, because simply changing has costs. Therefore the alternative must offer some advantage worth the costs of the change. | Apr 25 04:57 |
| Smears and insults are what M$ dishes out through paid mouthpieces | Apr 25 04:57 | |
| oiaohm_ | Good enough function wise. | Apr 25 04:58 |
| oiaohm_ | Lower cost over all. | Apr 25 04:58 |
| ushimitsudoki | Hence, Linux must be superior is some way. Be that cost, ideals, technology or whatever issue appeal to the current user. | Apr 25 04:58 |
| oiaohm_ | Usa wants superior function. | Apr 25 04:58 |
| oiaohm_ | So more wasteful. | Apr 25 04:58 |
| oiaohm_ | Its like using a sledge hammer when a tack hammer would do. | Apr 25 04:58 |
| GNU/Linux is superior on all levels. Ease of use, comfort, stability, security and cost. | Apr 25 04:58 | |
| ushimitsudoki | I think so. Why doesn’t everyone else? | Apr 25 04:59 |
| oiaohm_ | It depends where you are. | Apr 25 04:59 |
| People are ignorant, mislead by sell outs like Dell | Apr 25 04:59 | |
| This is not something that will last long. | Apr 25 05:00 | |
| ushimitsudoki | Well, there is some of that, sure. Marketing and propoganda play an important role. | Apr 25 05:00 |
| oiaohm_ | And product dumping. | Apr 25 05:00 |
| In fact, M$ brand is so shit now that people are willing to move | Apr 25 05:00 | |
| ushimitsudoki | Something that MS used to be *very* good at, but has stumbled a lot on lately. | Apr 25 05:00 |
| oiaohm_ | Here schools free copys of MS stuff. | Apr 25 05:00 |
| oiaohm_ | So that is all your students know. | Apr 25 05:00 |
| Plansmodeon noted that none of the dirty tricks work if the product is not solid. | Apr 25 05:00 | |
| oiaohm_ | So they don’t know that word processers bar word exists. | Apr 25 05:01 |
| oiaohm_ | Train them to fear anything different. | Apr 25 05:01 |
| oiaohm_ | Nice market lock in. | Apr 25 05:01 |
| ushimitsudoki | Windows is “solid enough” that they can get by on dirty tricks, I think that’s self-evident. Windows surely has not gotten its market share based on tecnological superiority. | Apr 25 05:01 |
| oiaohm_ | ushimitsudoki: MS is stumbling because it has compeition. | Apr 25 05:01 |
| oiaohm_ | Competition not playing fair. | Apr 25 05:02 |
| ushimitsudoki | MS is stumbling because they are *wrong*. | Apr 25 05:02 |
| oiaohm_ | We are 0 dollars so we force you to fight self. | Apr 25 05:02 |
| oiaohm_ | so stuffing your self up. | Apr 25 05:02 |
| ushimitsudoki | The product is inferior, the tactics illegal and/or offensive, the vision misguided and unwanted by the market. | Apr 25 05:03 |
| There is nothing wrong with sharing free software | Apr 25 05:03 | |
| oiaohm_ | In the past XP would have just been sent to the scrap heap. | Apr 25 05:03 |
| oiaohm_ | and users would have been force to upgrade. | Apr 25 05:03 |
| oiaohm_ | Linux blocked that cycle. | Apr 25 05:03 |
| oiaohm_ | So sending MS into there current dooms day events. | Apr 25 05:03 |
| M$ needed 4 years for XP to gain 50% share | Apr 25 05:03 | |
| oiaohm_ | There is no clean way out for MS. | Apr 25 05:03 |
| ushimitsudoki | MS is not in a dooms day event. They are *vulnerable* and could just as well come out the other end stronger than they came into it. | Apr 25 05:04 |
| Each new version of Windows has been met with more resistance than the last. | Apr 25 05:04 | |
| M$ is in a death spiral. | Apr 25 05:04 | |
| oiaohm_ | No its doom day. | Apr 25 05:04 |
| oiaohm_ | Linux is not moving from 0 dollar price tag. | Apr 25 05:04 |
| They can’t keep up and had to fire people, so they are even less capable of keeping up. | Apr 25 05:05 | |
| oiaohm_ | So MS will be forced closer and closer to that. | Apr 25 05:05 |
| oiaohm_ | Until they impolde. | Apr 25 05:05 |
| ushimitsudoki | I think that is wishful thinking. MS is in a bad spot and vulnerable, but better management could do wonders for them. We are very lucky in that sense that Ballmer and Co are in charge. | Apr 25 05:05 |
| oiaohm_ | No | Apr 25 05:05 |
| oiaohm_ | Netbook makers have been constanally lowing the price they will pay. | Apr 25 05:05 |
| oiaohm_ | With nettop makers enter the game as well. | Apr 25 05:06 |
| oiaohm_ | MS is in real trouble. | Apr 25 05:06 |
| Ballmer, lucky? LOL | Apr 25 05:06 | |
| ushimitsudoki | Yes they are in trouble. No that doesn’t automatically mean a “doomsday” or “death spiral”. | Apr 25 05:06 |
| oiaohm_ | No matter the management MS takes on you can only take from a market what they will pay. | Apr 25 05:06 |
| oiaohm_ | Price netbook markers want is 0. | Apr 25 05:06 |
| oiaohm_ | How is MS going to get there. | Apr 25 05:07 |
| ushimitsudoki | Yes, ballmer is lucky for US. Because he is incompentant | Apr 25 05:07 |
| Explain how they can compete when the best they can come up with is crap like Vista? | Apr 25 05:07 | |
| ushimitsudoki | Imagine MS led by a much better CEO, but with the same goals as Ballmer. That is scary to me. | Apr 25 05:07 |
| oiaohm_ | Linux gets it money out the hardware side. | Apr 25 05:07 |
| oiaohm_ | Not the software side. | Apr 25 05:07 |
| oiaohm_ | So every machine aquired is paying for Linux. | Apr 25 05:07 |
| oiaohm_ | If it has Linux on it or not. | Apr 25 05:08 |
| Their business model tried to include a marriage with Old Media. They betrayed their real customers for industries that are dying. | Apr 25 05:08 | |
| oiaohm_ | Linux copied how MS got dominate in the first place. | Apr 25 05:08 |
| oiaohm_ | MS better CEO will not solve problem. | Apr 25 05:09 |
| oiaohm_ | Hardware companies have turned on MS. | Apr 25 05:09 |
| ushimitsudoki | Do you see what I mean when I say Ballmer is lucky for Linux? Only an idiot like Ballmer would call out Linux users as “cancers” and so forth. A smarter man would just be quiet and play along with Open Source, and try to hurt it from the inside. In fact, I would say that is very much what MS is moving towards. | Apr 25 05:09 |
| oiaohm_ | No ballmer has nothing to do with the problem. | Apr 25 05:10 |
| oiaohm_ | It the eee pc that started it all. | Apr 25 05:10 |
| ushimitsudoki | Oh, Ballmer, the CEO of Microsoft has *nothing* to do with anything? | Apr 25 05:10 |
| oiaohm_ | Proff to hardware markers that a item with a Linux OS could sell in massive numbers. | Apr 25 05:10 |
| oiaohm_ | So causing hardware markers to apply presure to MS. | Apr 25 05:11 |
| M$ would like to coopt and corrupt free software the same way they did older free software but it’s not working out. People have realized the game and are using copyleft for protection. | Apr 25 05:11 | |
| oiaohm_ | MS realy does not have anything to make hardware makers back off. | Apr 25 05:11 |
| Even the best CEO would not be able to reform M$. | Apr 25 05:11 | |
| ushimitsudoki | twitter: To some degree yes, but also look at all the people that support say mono and moonlight. It’s really still up in the air I think | Apr 25 05:11 |
| If by “up in the air” you mean “without support”, I agree | Apr 25 05:12 | |
| oiaohm_ | There is a equally large anti mono and moonlight camp. | Apr 25 05:12 |
| oiaohm_ | Including a group recoding .net applciations back to native. | Apr 25 05:12 |
| oiaohm_ | In importances mono and moonlight is nothing. | Apr 25 05:12 |
| Apple has been better at exploiting free software than M$, this is why Apple is almost as large as M$ is these days. | Apr 25 05:12 | |
| ushimitsudoki | No, I mean some people – for whatever reason – seem to want to welcome MS into Open Source. I guess they think it is a sign of “winning” or something? That is worrying to me, because I expect MS to fail, and when MS fails I expect them to do as much collateral damage as they can on the way down. | Apr 25 05:13 |
| M$ has always been welcome to the free software world. | Apr 25 05:13 | |
| They just never go there. | Apr 25 05:13 | |
| oiaohm_ | Open Source world would glady embrace and extend MS. | Apr 25 05:14 |
| It would be just fine for M$ to GPL windows | Apr 25 05:14 | |
| But M$ would not enjoy it’s monopoly rents that way … | Apr 25 05:14 | |
| oiaohm_ | Open source want to embrace windows is not a nice thing. | Apr 25 05:14 |
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| schestowitz | overt Actions Against American Citizens Living in America < http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zejpx… > | Apr 25 08:20 |
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| schestowitz | Microsoft just PULLED the surface review | Apr 25 09:09 |
| schestowitz | It gives a 404 | Apr 25 09:09 |
| schestowitz | The guy says Microsoft contacted him | Apr 25 09:09 |
| schestowitz | I call it censorship | Apr 25 09:09 |
| schestowitz | They police coverage about their products. | Apr 25 09:10 |
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| trmanco | finally, a non biased review? -> http://www.computerworld.com/act… | Apr 25 09:33 |
| schestowitz | trmanco: yes | Apr 25 09:40 |
| schestowitz | Lots of comments for a CW article | Apr 25 09:40 |
| schestowitz | MS will unleash some Turfers | Apr 25 09:40 |
| schestowitz | Or business partners | Apr 25 09:40 |
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| schestowitz | SJVN told me he’d writer about AstroTurfing, but he hasn’t yet. | Apr 25 09:41 |
| trmanco | good | Apr 25 09:41 |
| trmanco | but will CW permit that? | Apr 25 09:41 |
| Omar87 | So, what exactly is the idea of this post: http://notnews.today.com/2009/04/2… ? | Apr 25 09:47 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft is doing it again. It censors negative reviews of its products: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/0… | Apr 25 09:47 |
| schestowitz | trmanco: he’s probably pressured by CW (IDG) | Apr 25 09:48 |
| schestowitz | Walking on a tight rope | Apr 25 09:48 |
| schestowitz | Omar87: it’s satire | Apr 25 09:48 |
| schestowitz | Very funny. I know the guy who wrote it | Apr 25 09:48 |
| schestowitz | He also borrows some ideas from BN. Like “overshadowing” Ubuntu’s release | Apr 25 09:49 |
| Omar87 | schestowitz: You mean he’s just joking around? | Apr 25 09:49 |
| schestowitz | The future does not look too good for Microsoft and GNU/Linux is a major problem to it: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/04/25… | Apr 25 09:49 |
| schestowitz | Omar87: yes, the whole blog is satire | Apr 25 09:49 |
| schestowitz | It’s called “NotNews” | Apr 25 09:49 |
| Omar87 | schestowitz: Oh, I see. lol!  |
Apr 25 09:50 |
| trmanco | >> Microsoft Corporation (NASDAQ: MNPLY) | Apr 25 09:50 |
| trmanco | hehe | Apr 25 09:50 |
| Omar87 | schestowitz: LOL, but ‘Not’ “NotNews” also means something else (Stands for “New of the”). | Apr 25 09:51 |
| Omar87 | ‘Not’ *in* “NotNews”… | Apr 25 09:52 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft is trying to embrace and ‘extend’ open source and odf: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/04/25… | Apr 25 10:38 |
| ushimitsudoki1 | There’s something I haven’t quite figured out yet. I don’t understand why Microsoft is hyping up PHP so much when it trots out it “open source friendly” propaganda. Maybe I’m seeing things that aren’t there, but it seems to be they *really* love mentioning PHP, and I’m just not quite sure why? | Apr 25 10:55 |
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| schestowitz | ushimitsudoki1: yes, the deal with Zend | Apr 25 11:04 |
| schestowitz | They also pretend it is so more lovelier on Windows | Apr 25 11:04 |
| schestowitz | But Zend says 95% deploy on Linux! |
Apr 25 11:04 |
| schestowitz | Is Ubuntu Bigger than Debian now? < http://blog.internetnews.com/skern… > | Apr 25 11:04 |
| ushimitsudoki1 | Something about it bothers me, but I’m not sure. I mean they aren’t hyping Javascript / Python / Perl and so on. Why the special attention to PHP? Anyway, just something I’ve been noticing lately. | Apr 25 11:06 |
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| schestowitz | Maybe the others are powerful? | Apr 25 11:15 |
| schestowitz | How much of PHP does Google use? | Apr 25 11:15 |
| ushimitsudoki1 | Good question. I think Google is more a python shop, but that’s just what I recall reading. I don’t know specifics. | Apr 25 11:17 |
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| schestowitz | ushimitsudoki1: can you think of examples? | Apr 25 11:18 |
| schestowitz | Other than one’s Google buys? | Apr 25 11:18 |
| schestowitz | (Not homebred) | Apr 25 11:18 |
| schestowitz | new remark from the Microsoft blog in ZDNet: “Sounds like one more way to help migrate from linux to Microsoft Windows. If this is implemented pulling data from a linux server will be that much easier until the server is no longer needed. I’m liking this interoperability.” | Apr 25 11:18 |
| schestowitz | http://talkback.zdnet.com/5208-12558-… | Apr 25 11:18 |
| ushimitsudoki1 | http://panela.blog-city.com/python_… :At Google, python is one of the 3 “official languages” alongside with C++ and Java. Official here means that Googlers are allowed to deploy these languages to production services. (Internally Google people use many technologies including PHP, C#, Ruby and Perl). Python is well suited to the engineering process at Google. | Apr 25 11:19 |
| ushimitsudoki1 | Again, this is just the sort of stuff I recall reading about in the past. | Apr 25 11:19 |
| oiaohm | schestowitz: ubuntu is working on a mirror to rip data out of a windows server. | Apr 25 11:21 |
| oiaohm | Now of orcale works on that MS has some problems. | Apr 25 11:21 |
| schestowitz | Wow. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPJz… | Apr 25 11:23 |
| schestowitz | it’s mixed with BS | Apr 25 11:24 |
| schestowitz | But the opening part about Kuwait is interesting. | Apr 25 11:24 |
| schestowitz | I guess it’s too old for people to remember. | Apr 25 11:24 |
| oiaohm | Its not new. | Apr 25 11:34 |
| schestowitz | It is to me. | Apr 25 11:35 |
| schestowitz | Yikes. <a href=”http://www.tmcnet.co m/usubmit/-toby-richards-f…” title=” | Apr 25 11:37 |
| schestowitz | Oops. | Apr 25 11:37 |
| schestowitz | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mL-… | Apr 25 11:37 |
| oiaohm | Howard here is out of power for attempting the same thing here schestowitz | Apr 25 11:39 |
| oiaohm | Children over board stunt. | Apr 25 11:40 |
| oiaohm | USA media seams not to go asking questions enough. | Apr 25 11:40 |
| schestowitz | Of course not | Apr 25 11:47 |
| schestowitz | They agree (by their own admission) to collaboration with the NSA | Apr 25 11:47 |
| schestowitz | You see publisher and editors saying this | Apr 25 11:47 |
| schestowitz | It’s a form of fascism in the press. The state controls it. At least the parts that matter and reach audience | Apr 25 11:47 |
| oiaohm | Australian media companies get into trouble with the goverment all the time. | Apr 25 11:48 |
| oiaohm | Only way to keep them out of something is basically threaten to kill them. | Apr 25 11:49 |
| oiaohm | http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?p… Yes by by DRI 1 . | Apr 25 11:50 |
| schestowitz | My issue is not with this behaviour | Apr 25 11:51 |
| schestowitz | Not as much as them pretending that it ain’t happening | Apr 25 11:52 |
| schestowitz | Likely, when it comes to sites like BN, it’s important to show how things work | Apr 25 11:52 |
| schestowitz | Like analysts being bribed to say things | Apr 25 11:52 |
| schestowitz | And Microsoft rewarding journalists in all sorts of way | Apr 25 11:52 |
| schestowitz | *ways | Apr 25 11:52 |
| schestowitz | A lot of people are tamed to have blind faith | Apr 25 11:52 |
| oiaohm | Microsoft world is coming apart. | Apr 25 11:52 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: I look beyond it | Apr 25 11:59 |
| schestowitz | Adobe, Google, IBM, now Oracle.. | Apr 25 11:59 |
| schestowitz | it’s an endless battle | Apr 25 11:59 |
| schestowitz | And it can get worse, too | Apr 25 11:59 |
| schestowitz | Apple is abusive for example | Apr 25 11:59 |
| schestowitz | Look at all the struggles for rights over the years being smashed in Bush&Blair years | Apr 25 12:00 |
| schestowitz | You end up with Stasi nations. | Apr 25 12:00 |
| schestowitz | In the name of so-called security, which is poor because of the very same approach that supposedly protects it | Apr 25 12:00 |
| schestowitz | A self-fulfilling prophecy if you like. Attack the (mostly) innocent, then claim that “they hate us” | Apr 25 12:01 |
| oiaohm | IBM and Oracle will kind keep each other in check. | Apr 25 12:02 |
| oiaohm | As they get into a full out competition war with each other. | Apr 25 12:02 |
| oiaohm | Google tries hard to do good. Really I don’t know what is worse. | Apr 25 12:03 |
| oiaohm | A company trying to be good. Or a company trying to be evil. | Apr 25 12:04 |
| oiaohm | The one that is trying to be evil you know more what kind of harm it will hit you with. | Apr 25 12:04 |
| oiaohm | To be correct IBM HP and Oracle will keep each other in check. | Apr 25 12:05 |
| schestowitz | Yes, good points, but.. | Apr 25 12:07 |
| schestowitz | To do good is a subjective thing | Apr 25 12:07 |
| schestowitz | They also do good… for shareholders | Apr 25 12:07 |
| schestowitz | They also do good… for spies (Google gives data) | Apr 25 12:07 |
| schestowitz | They also do good… for America (at the expense of other nation) | Apr 25 12:07 |
| schestowitz | So “Good” means all sorts of things | Apr 25 12:07 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft would say, we make “Good” software | Apr 25 12:07 |
| oiaohm | That is the problem for google. | Apr 25 12:08 |
| oiaohm | There is no solid define of good. | Apr 25 12:08 |
| ushimitsudoki1 | I have some questions on moonlight: http://meandubuntu.wordpress.com/20… | Apr 25 12:09 |
