01.18.10

Gemini version available ♊︎

With Mono Clearly on Microsoft’s Side, Another Call for Ubuntu to Move Mono to ‘Restricted’

Posted in GNU/Linux, Microsoft, Mono, Novell, Ubuntu at 8:55 am by Dr. Roy Schestowitz

Summary: Now that Microsoft formally recognises the contribution of Miguel de Icaza to Microsoft, there is no longer any reason to think of Mono as beneficial to GNU/Linux

Microsoft MVP Novell’s de Icaza [1, 2] has put GNU/Linux at risk and this risk is infectious. Here are the responses in Linux Today to the news about the MVP award. It’s overwhelmingly negative and it was probably intentionally posted by the editor right next to an item about Microsoft’s attacks on GNU/Linux, as shown by Comes vs Microsoft exhibits.

Any attempt to promote Microsoft APIs and frameworks (SharpDevelop for example) is a disservice to GNU/Linux, based on Microsoft’s own documents [PDF]. A reader of ours is concerned about the effects Mono has on Ubuntu for example. Yesterday he wrote to us:

Bradley Kuhn had an interesting discussion of desktops.

I like the effort that Canonical has made with raising the popularity of Debian-based distros. I abhor the fact that it and related services, like Ubuntu One, are starting to be used as a vehicle to spread Microsoft products. With the strong integtration of services, like Ubuntu One mentioned there, into the desktop for Lucid Lynx, there are some real conflicts.

No one and no company can be promoting Microsoft products without knowing the one single possible outcome. Ubuntu has spent a lot of time creating a good brand. It is a shame for a bait-and-switch type scam just as things are getting good. Quality suffers as much from Microsoft products as other areas do.

Obviously the Mono problem is at the middle of all that, even though it itself is only the symptom of some staffing problems. If the staffing problems are not cleared up, it has bad repercussions for all of Free Software operating systems, especially upstream in Debian.

Another one of the lower-profile things that Ubuntu hurts with is that it is constantly steering those who don’t know better into proprietary formats, drivers and codecs. There used to be proper warnings about what users were losing if they installed proprietary extras. There used to be a clear distinction between ‘main’ and ‘restricted’ I have to point out that the things Bradley wrote about and the things mentioned above were in place and made Ubuntu as popular as it is today.

As Jeremy Allison suggested some months ago, Mono and Mono-based applications should be put in Ubuntu’s ‘restricted’ repositories [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6].

Share in other sites/networks: These icons link to social bookmarking sites where readers can share and discover new web pages.
  • Reddit
  • email

Decor ᶃ Gemini Space

Below is a Web proxy. We recommend getting a Gemini client/browser.

Black/white/grey bullet button This post is also available in Gemini over at this address (requires a Gemini client/browser to open).

Decor ✐ Cross-references

Black/white/grey bullet button Pages that cross-reference this one, if any exist, are listed below or will be listed below over time.

Decor ▢ Respond and Discuss

Black/white/grey bullet button If you liked this post, consider subscribing to the RSS feed or join us now at the IRC channels.

9 Comments

  1. dyfet said,

    January 18, 2010 at 10:11 am

    Gravatar

    I consider Jeremy a very credible authority on this question. I think some of this effort should focus on Debian, for what happens upstream is another way to correct errors that happen downstream (Ubuntu). The Debian social contract should be respected more clearly than it is in this case.

    Perhaps one problem is that the Ubuntu code of conduct deals with behavior but does not itself reference software freedom. The DFSG clearly does…I note:

    “…#3 Derived Works

    The license must allow modifications and derived works, and must allow them to be distributed under the same terms as the license of the original software.

    ..#5 No Discrimination Against Persons or Groups

    The license must not discriminate against any person or group of persons…”

    The arrangements between Novell and Microsoft with respect to Silverblight clearly violate this as well as at least most of Mono core libraries.

    “…#6 No Discrimination Against Fields of Endeavor

    The license must not restrict anyone from making use of the program in a specific field of endeavor. For example, it may not restrict the program from being used in a business, or from being used for genetic research.”

    This is a reminder that similarly, “Non-commercial use” restrictions are not permitted in Debian either, which even the most “generous” Microsoft patent promise on some parts and uses clearly violates, both in spirit and in letter. Hence, I see the problem as originating in Debian itself violating it’s own social contract and core principles with respect to Mono.

    Needs Sunlight Reply:

    dyfet, someone within debian sponsored the growing mono team.

    Microsoft is going to spend more effort operating ‘behind the lines’ causing trouble. Projects like debian have to face up to the fact that some good people might be dangerously naive and that others, despite a happy smile and a round of beer, are there to fatally derail the project.

    Roy Schestowitz Reply:

    I was going to say that too, but I’m reluctant to open this jar of worms and upset Debian. Fedora eventually did the right thing regarding Mono.

    Needs Sunlight Reply:

    That’s fine, but it’s time to acknowledge that the rules have changed and Microsoft is no longer ignoring projects.

    When they go up against Oracle and Red Hat, it is money they waste: Bill is willing to lose money for an indefinite period of time just to ensure that no one else makes any money in that market either.

    When they go up against, Debian and Apache, it is time: Bil is willing to waste everyone’s time indefinitely just to make sure no one else gets anything done either.

    Roy Schestowitz Reply:

    “They [Microsoft] have the deepest of pockets, unlimited ambition, and they are willing to lose money for years and years just to make sure that you don’t make any money, either. And they are mean, REALLY mean.”

    Robert X. Cringely

  2. The Mad Hatter said,

    January 18, 2010 at 10:35 am

    Gravatar

    Same old thing, all over again. They start off with ‘Free Software’ and then degenerate to ‘Open Source’ when they think they can make a bit more money that way. I’m steering people away from Ubuntu, and Ubuntu based distros.

    Needs Sunlight Reply:

    I disagree that they necessarily plan to make more money, they being Microsofters. From watching them, speaking with them, reading what they do and getting also second hand information, a large motivation for the Microsoft crowd is ‘schadefreud’. That appears, from my experience to be, one of the main selling points for Microsoft tools. It may be painted and polished and have some nice spinmeistering, but at the bottom it appears to be about blocking, hindering or holding back other people.

    They being Ubuntu, it’s just a matter of naively bending with Microsoft influence. The influence pulls in the opposite direction from the original goals of the Ubuntu project, but as ‘compromise’ after compromise is reached with ever increasing numbers of Monomaniacs or other Microsofters, the center is moved further and further away from where it was. It’s a variant of stacking the committee, where they get their voices nearest the ears of the decision makers.

    Venue also plays a role. The last developer summit was in the US and thus excluded many Free and Open Source users and developers, but provided easy access for Monomaniacs and co.

  3. Roy Schestowitz said,

    January 18, 2010 at 12:53 pm

    Gravatar

    How timely an update. Earlier today Groklaw published the following in News Picks, under the headline: “If you are curious about what is going wrong with Ubuntu, read this.”

    It says:

    “[PJ: The article, titled “Giving up the GIMP is a sign of Ubuntu’s mainstream maturity,” paints replacing it with FSpot as a fine thing, and manages to do so without even mentioning mono (Wikipedia: “F-Spot is written in the C# programming language using Mono.”). So for me, it’s good bye to Ubuntu until they clean it out. It’s a question of ethics, but it’s also a question of prudence. If you know about patents, even if you think they are stupid, you are foolish at best to pretend they don’t exist.

    “And if you wondered why Ubuntu is going wrong, in my view, read the following decision-making process, and think about how easy it is to direct anything in a particular direction if all you need is numbers (think Slashdot moderation and Microsoft). A project leader has to decide certain issues, according to the vision, not leaving all decisions, particularly legal ones, to a vote by those who are not even lawyers:]”

  4. rs said,

    January 20, 2010 at 1:56 pm

    Gravatar

    People can help stop this by subscribing this petition, calling on major distributions to not hide such important applications from the live cd’s:

    http://www.petitiononline.com/botgimp/petition.html

DecorWhat Else is New


  1. Links 25/05/2022: ‘V Rising’ on GNU/Linux and Pearl Linux OS 11

    Links for the day



  2. Links 25/05/2022: Librem Tries Another Approach

    Links for the day



  3. IRC Proceedings: Tuesday, May 24, 2022

    IRC logs for Tuesday, May 24, 2022



  4. Links 24/05/2022: nginx-1.22.0 and WordPress 6.0

    Links for the day



  5. [Meme] Divine Protection

    You won’t find Monopoly Tony (António Campinos) wearing a mask at the EPO because the rules of the Office do not apply to him



  6. António Campinos and the Alicante Clique (EPO Management, Appointed Based on Nepotism Despite Lack of Qualifications) Nowadays Exploiting Kids for PR Charades

    The sick old habit of exploiting kids for Public Relations (PR) and marketing purposes is all too common at the EPO (they’re constantly exploiting “the children” to associate criticism of the EPO with demeaning the young and innocent), but the management — which enjoys nepotism and immunity rather than relevant skills — carries on today and it’s being called “inaugural”



  7. [Meme] Snake on a Plane

    The EPO‘s President ‘Monopoly Tony’ (António Campinos), whom you never see wearing a mask (none of the photo ops; he does not even socially distance himself from peers, he wears sneakers instead of masks) during the height of a pandemic, is the "f***ing president"; don’t tell him to wear one…



  8. Microsoft GitHub Exposé — Part XX — Entering Phase II

    We're about to resume the long-running series about the sick clique which ran GitHub until the assault on women became too much of a liability (among other wrongdoings and PR blunders)



  9. Links 24/05/2022: Fedora 37 Test Days and Tor Browser 11.0.13

    Links for the day



  10. Microsoft Vidal, as USPTO Director, Already Plays 'Political Cards' to Disguise and Deflect Away From the Corporate Agenda

    Microsoft Vidal, another corporate pawn in charge of the world’s most dangerous patent system, is using soft-spoken defle



  11. Links 24/05/2022: WAL-G 2.0

    Links for the day



  12. IRC Proceedings: Monday, May 23, 2022

    IRC logs for Monday, May 23, 2022



  13. Unethical Advertising, Published as So-called 'Articles', in CNX Software

    As we noted earlier this year, the CNX team is looking for money in the wrong places



  14. Links 23/05/2022: Broadcom to Buy VMware?

    Links for the day



  15. LibreOffice Conference 2022, As Before, Puts the Keynotes on Sale (the Rich Buy Influence, the Price Doubles)

    Discrimination against the community; talks and mentions are based on money, not merit ($2000 has become $4000 in just one year)



  16. Links 23/05/2022: Kdenlive 22.04.1 and New Alpine Linux Released

    Links for the day



  17. António Campinos Promotes Software Patents Using Buzzwords and Sketchy Loopholes With Dubious Legal Basis

    ‘Monopoly Tony’ (António Campinos) is shamelessly manipulating EPO processes at both ends (sender and receiver) to facilitate the illegal granting of invalid European software patents; we’re meant to think this former EU official and imposter (banker) is some guru in the sciences because he reads a lousy speech crafted for him with lots of meaningless buzzwords peppered all over it (he’s not good at reading it, either)



  18. [Meme] Jorgotta Be Kidding Us, Campinos!

    Monopoly Tony (António Campinos) runs the EPO by attacking the very legal basis of the EPO’s existence



  19. Unified Patent Court (UPC) Relies Too Much on Lies and Mischief Without Any Basis in Law

    Today’s video runs through the typical (weekly) lies from Team UPC — lies that are very easy to debunk; Team UPC not only drafted the thing but also looks to profit from it while misleading politicians and bribing publishers to spread intentionally misleading statements (lies)



  20. IRC Proceedings: Sunday, May 22, 2022

    IRC logs for Sunday, May 22, 2022



  21. Links 23/05/2022: Fedora 36 Reviewed

    Links for the day



  22. [Meme] It's My Working Party... And I'll Cry If I Want to!

    EPO President António Campinos is still not being held accountable for his Code of Conduct violations



  23. Links 22/05/2022: The 5.18 Kernel is Out

    Links for the day



  24. Gemini is Bigger Than Most People Care to Realise

    Geminispace has gotten to the point where it's too computationally expensive (or outright pricey) to study, let alone keep abreast of, Gemini capsules or the domain space as a whole



  25. Links 22/05/2022: Rock64 and Peppermint OS Release

    Links for the day



  26. [Meme] UPC is Always Next Year (and Next Year It'll Surely be the Year After That)

    The UPC will come “next year”, just like every year (since almost a decade ago) just because the lunatic promises so and crushes the law, quite frankly as usual, cusioned and protected by the UPC lobby



  27. UPC: Turning Patent Lawyers Into Liars and the Media Into Their Money-Grabbing Megaphone (Platform for Fake News)

    The above 26 screenshots (with necessary annotation added) hopefully illuminate the degree of deceit, manipulation, bribery and distortion of public discourse (fake news and advocacy of patently unlawful activities)



  28. Number of Working/Online Gemini Capsules, Known to Totally Legit Gemini Search (TLGS) and to Lupa, Exceeds 2,500

    Assuming that Lupa reduced its crawling capacity (this graph seems to confirm this), we’ve decided to aggregate data from 3 sources and assess the size of Geminispace; Lupa says it can see 1,947 active capsules, but there are many more it has not kept track of



  29. [Meme] Monopoly Tony

    The gentlest, kindest president the EPO ever had



  30. It Took Campinos Three or More Years to Undo Illegal Battistelli Actions on Boards of Appeal and Strike Regulations (Only After Losing at ILO-AT!), But He Does Not Mention That

    Let’s all remember that as the EPO‘s so-called ‘President’ António Campinos (Monopoly Tony) vigorously defended completely unlawful actions of Benoît Battistelli until courts compelled him to stop doing that (Strike Regulations); notice how, in the video above — a portion of this full clip from several months ago — he did not bother mentioning that for 3.5 years that he had “led” the Office the Boards of Appeal were in exile, in direct violation of the EPC, yet nobody is being held accountable for it


RSS 64x64RSS Feed: subscribe to the RSS feed for regular updates

Home iconSite Wiki: You can improve this site by helping the extension of the site's content

Home iconSite Home: Background about the site and some key features in the front page

Chat iconIRC Channel: Come and chat with us in real time

Recent Posts