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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: July 30th, 2008

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schestowitzChina censors the Olympics, Microsoft puts DRM in it... Internet censorship plagues journalists at OlympicsJul 30 08:31
schestowitz Lovely!Jul 30 08:31
PetoKrausehm, fucktards.Jul 30 08:36
schestowitzIt's getting to be the same elsewhere in pseudo-democratic (corpocratic) nations.Jul 30 08:37
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kentma1schestowitz: just sent you an email - it's an obituary to Joe Barr I wrote in cola, but it was quite good, so I thought you might be able to find space for it on your site.Jul 30 10:05
schestowitzJust responded seconds ago.Jul 30 10:15
schestowitz"That's an excellent piece. And yes, I'd love to share it. I assume the subject line makes a good title? Do you want attribution? Jul 30 10:16
kentma1replied to the email with a yes on both counts :-)Jul 30 10:34
schestowitzYou know..? I now remember that sort of polite confrontation from Digg...Jul 30 10:42
kentma1you mean about debating points?Jul 30 10:43
schestowitzI accused of running the anti-Linux ads (back then it was very aggressive... "Linux is a RISK!"... you know the gig). Anyway, Joe came to Digg and replied to the comment. He was obviously uncomfortable with the ads and he explained to me that it was the publisher's fault.Jul 30 10:43
kentma1ah, yes, I see what you mean now.Jul 30 10:44
schestowitzAs you may or may now know, Microsoft gave some dough to SourceForge and those sister sites. That's why I no longer trust Slashdot, either. The editor were also invited for a Redmond visit. They accepted the invitations.Jul 30 10:44
kentma1The bias at slash has changed very significantly over the years.  It used to be staunchly centered on "new" stuff, now, we'll, I don't really bother with it any more.Jul 30 10:45
kentma1This will not end, at least, until MS have run out of cash!Jul 30 10:45
schestowitzWell, yeah... Groklaw hardly trusts many news sites, either. There's a Microsoft money trail (or partners).Jul 30 10:46
schestowitzI wrote about it just 2 hours ago: 30 10:46
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schestowitz 30 10:55
schestowitzBad news for Microsoft: 30 11:04
kentma1ah - that was quick publishign :-)Jul 30 11:06
schestowitzYes, probably will get some attention.I just wasn't sure if Joe wants to be remembered only as a FUD fighter. Jul 30 11:06
kentma1There are plenty of other obits around for him...Jul 30 11:07
schestowitzI've seen just one.Jul 30 11:08
kentma1ah, maybe there's only one other...Jul 30 11:08
PetoKrausnice.Jul 30 11:08
schestowitzWell, visible ones anywayJul 30 11:08
PetoKrausthat australia, i meanJul 30 11:09
schestowitzIt's Roblimo who cried as he wrote the first one. It made me very sad.Jul 30 11:09
kentma1PetoKraus: just for a minute, I though you liked my piece :-)Jul 30 11:10
PetoKraushehe i didn't read it yetJul 30 11:10
schestowitzPetoKraus: this things are not linear, either. Expect watchers to follow suit (NSW).Jul 30 11:10
PetoKrauswatchers?Jul 30 11:11
schestowitzThe Telegraph did it some days ago (bye Outlook, Office and Exchange)Jul 30 11:11
PetoKrausanyway, the price difference - 30M compared to 9.5M....Jul 30 11:11
schestowitzWatchers as in, say... CIOs that rely on the judgment and experience of peers. Wait-and-/watchers/... that's why Microsoft keeps that Big Lie about Munich going.Jul 30 11:12
PetoKrausi guess i completely missed THAT big lie.Jul 30 11:13
PetoKraus(not reading much lately)Jul 30 11:13
kentma1One of the most compelling and seductive logical fallacies is the "if someone else has done it, it must be right".  It's these people that Roy is thinking of, I think - they see that someone else has done it, so feel confident in moving in the same direction with low risk.Jul 30 11:13
kentma1The best solution would be to expose the fallacy, but it's so compelling and seductive that most people cannot even recognise that it /is/ a fallacy.Jul 30 11:14
PetoKrausit's more of a psychology, or, deep human nature (to repeat stuff after others) than... fallacyJul 30 11:15
kentma1ah, you see what I mean.  It's a logical fallacy, and yet, so seductive, that you want to find any excuse to accept it as not being a fallacy...Jul 30 11:16
schestowitzPetoKraus: there are seevral exceptionally-successfuly multi-thousand-workstation migrations to GNU/Linux (usually SUSE) in Germany, but Microsoft et al try to tell a story about disasters.Jul 30 11:17
PetoKrausSuse though.Jul 30 11:17
kentma1I'm not sure that Munich is even a disaster - it was just a big job.Jul 30 11:17
schestowitzTwo black sheep make one black sheep feel comfort. There's also less liability ("he did it too")Jul 30 11:17
schestowitzMunich has a Debian derivative.Jul 30 11:18
schestowitzIt's the porting of software they use (hundreds of things) to GNU/Linux that took time.Jul 30 11:18
PetoKrausehm, have a link what happened?Jul 30 11:19
PetoKrausgoogle returned only 2 years old articleJul 30 11:19
kentma1If you look at more extreme cases, the fallacy becomes clear.  If my neighbour buys a cello and a range rover, does that mean I should buy the same?Jul 30 11:19
PetoKrausit depends what you want to doJul 30 11:19
schestowitz*LOL*Jul 30 11:20
kentma1It's essential to consider your own needs in every decision, the fact that my neighbour is a talented cellist and I'm not clearly weighs heavily.  When people come to complex technical decisions, though, they find it harder to weigh the facts and are more inclined to see what someone else did.  It's seductive.Jul 30 11:20
PetoKrausif you wanna get a jeep, get a rover :DJul 30 11:21
kentma1PetoKraus: ah, I already happen to have a landrover 110 :-)Jul 30 11:21
PetoKrausd'ohJul 30 11:21
schestowitzIn this economy (gas price)? Get a mortgage for gas, too.Jul 30 11:21
PetoKrausi am gonna get me Lada NivaJul 30 11:21
kentma1I recently traded in a discovery - I'm wondering if it were the right decision, though - I could run the disco on 50:50 diesel & sainsbury cooking oil.Jul 30 11:22
PetoKrausand change it from gasoline to gas.Jul 30 11:22
PetoKraus:DJul 30 11:22
kentma1didn't affect the performance much :-)Jul 30 11:22
kentma1the defender 110 engine needs modifications to burn oil, though.  If the price keeps rising, I might see if I can get them done, though.Jul 30 11:23
PetoKrausheheJul 30 11:23
PetoKrausi use public transport and not even consider getting license soon.Jul 30 11:23
kentma1cooking oil, I mean.  Diesel is oil, of course :-)Jul 30 11:23
PetoKrausyes, i know ;)Jul 30 11:23
PetoKraussainsbury can't sell diesel as cooking oil. i hope.Jul 30 11:24
*schestowitz trying to find an article from The RegisterJul 30 11:24
kentma1I mostly travel for work by public transport, but there are some things which just don't work that way.Jul 30 11:24
kentma1PetoKraus: hehe - some of it tastes so bad, I wonder :-)Jul 30 11:24
PetoKrausyou know, i shop at sommerfield mostly (when in the UK)Jul 30 11:24
schestowitzHaha. 30 11:24
schestowitz "Stop giving the Terrrrrrrissssttsssss more ideas!"Jul 30 11:25
kentma1:-DJul 30 11:25
schestowitzXtreeeme recycling.Jul 30 11:26
kentma1This is why I was using the oil /before/ i'd cooked with it - just mixing it with the diesel was okay 8-)Jul 30 11:26
PetoKraushmmJul 30 11:26
schestowitzIf the price of oil goes back on the upside, people might start thinking of 'sacrificing' their children (and maybe not in the orphanage sense).Jul 30 11:26
PetoKraushahaJul 30 11:27
kentma1schestowitz: uk!Jul 30 11:27
schestowitzWhat about it?Jul 30 11:27
kentma1sacrificing my kids?Jul 30 11:27
PetoKrausOnce the boys in blue realise that chip fat can be a weapon of terr'r, they'll pounce on anyone with a dodgy accent found loitering near deep fat friers. ie the scotch.Jul 30 11:27
PetoKraushaah! this is good :DJul 30 11:27
schestowitzBTW, I've just taken a look at Webalizer (first time in a month). The traffic in has increased consistency every single month over the past 12 months. It's at an average of 15,500 pageviews per day now. Scary.Jul 30 11:27
kentma1I don't have an altar with channels in for such activities :-)Jul 30 11:28
schestowitzThe other thing about poor economies is corporate misery, which leads to bad stuff.Jul 30 11:28
kentma1wow - that's some hit rate.Jul 30 11:29
schestowitzWatch Microsoft vs Yahoo's board, Novell selling out, Apache... well, taking some dough. If the economy is bad, people will 'prostitute' themselves and the rich ones can capitalise some more. (RIAA included)Jul 30 11:29
schestowitzGL probably has about 10 times that number, but mathfox turned logging off so that the AMD server can cope.Jul 30 11:30
PetoKrausha, they're hacking splashtopJul 30 11:31
PetoKrausgreatJul 30 11:31
schestowitzYes.Jul 30 11:31
schestowitzI kept quiet about it.Jul 30 11:31
schestowitzScript boyz will be script boyzJul 30 11:32
PetoKrausi just don't get why did they make it proprietaryJul 30 11:32
PetoKrausit's like.... pointless.Jul 30 11:32
schestowitzParts of it were open.Jul 30 11:32
schestowitzIt was on ZDNet... David, IIRC.Jul 30 11:32
schestowitzFound it: 30 11:32
kentma1interesting... one wonders why Asus didn't go for something 100% open.Jul 30 11:34
PetoKrauswell, who knows. Asus is weird. They are having great ideas but they mess up the nuancesJul 30 11:35
PetoKraus(Xandros. Splashtop)Jul 30 11:35
schestowitzXandros won't last for longJul 30 11:36
schestowitzCanonical take a p00per on a lot of the desktop players, Mandriva included. It has hype going for it given that's it's a decent product with quality _on par_ with many.Jul 30 11:36
PetoKrauswellJul 30 11:41
PetoKrausi installed ubuntu few days agoJul 30 11:41
PetoKrausthere's only one thing missing...Jul 30 11:41
PetoKrauscinelerra. Other than that, i'd recommend it to everyone, except hard-core guys (gentoo ftw there)Jul 30 11:41
schestowitzI've had Ubuntu running on some boxes over the years, but SUSE and Mandriva give it a run for the money.Jul 30 11:42
schestowitzBTW: 30 11:43
PetoKraushehe. anyway, the thing i don't like is mono-infection in ubuntu.Jul 30 11:43
schestowitzThey named it after Uwe Thiem, which is nice. 30 11:44
schestowitz Mark: "At this stage we see no significant issues with patents and Mono."Jul 30 11:45
PetoKrauswell yes, i know.Jul 30 11:52
PetoKrausanyway, there's been nice long discussion on E's mailinglist about license for whole EFLJul 30 11:53
schestowitz" E's mailinglist"?Jul 30 11:54
PetoKrausenlightenmentJul 30 11:54
schestowitzOh, *that* E. :-) E17Jul 30 11:56
schestowitzIsn't it maintained by just one Belgian guy who publishes ELive?Jul 30 11:56
PetoKraushaha, no, not reallyJul 30 11:56
PetoKrauselive is a distribution of debian + enlightenmentJul 30 11:56
PetoKrausthat belgian guy has not much to do with E developmentJul 30 11:57
PetoKraushttp://exchange.enlightenment.orgJul 30 11:57
PetoKrausthey did a new page lately, cool api... though the release date is still in far futureJul 30 11:58
schestowitzWasn't there a page? Which reminds me of how appalling it is that Slashdot is now by association sponsored by Microsoft. There's a reader exodus and no developer exodus, yet.Jul 30 11:58
PetoKrausi doubt it'll ever be releasedJul 30 11:59
schestowitzIsn't it always "in development"?Jul 30 12:00
PetoKrauswell, almost looks like.Jul 30 12:01
schestowitzRe, it's good to have Google hosting around cause it'll never accept Microsoft money. I have a project on, but Microsoft will ruins things. it serves them well if they ruin these site and dissipate participants with junk posts, Microsoft ads, anti-Linux trolling, etc. They did this with when they picked anti-FOSS awards (likely to get used, get users sued).Jul 30 12:01
PetoKrausbut it's perfectly stable.Jul 30 12:01
schestowitzYes, so I hear.Jul 30 12:02
schestowitzWhen I say I refer to 'child' sites too, i.e. IT Manager Journal, Newsforge,, Slashdot...Jul 30 12:02
schestowitzAnd now they ruin Datamation (Jupitermedia) too, which had me lose interest in publishing there ever aqain. Brian Profffitt left them recently to do LDN and he hated the Microsoft ads too. They suddnly came in massive numbers as soon as he left LT and Carla took over.Jul 30 12:04
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kentma1 30 13:31
kentma1mccreevy is determined to create himself a long-term job here.Jul 30 13:32
*schestowitz looksJul 30 13:33
schestowitzUh oh!!Jul 30 13:33
schestowitzThat's the 'Community' patent back door, I think. I'll read on.Jul 30 13:33
schestowitzIt's the Microsoft-funded scum (ACT, among others) which pushes for this. They try to poison and pollute the system with monopolies and choke anything that's peer-produced or shared.Jul 30 13:35
kentma1the garbage about "subsidised" patent claims is particularly revolting.Jul 30 13:35
kentma1It's just trying to drag everyone into the system so that they can be squeezed.  Mccreevy deserves investigation - he really does seem to be on someone's payroll in some way, or he's just exceptionally gullible.Jul 30 13:36
kentma1 30 13:36
kentma1ps3 is doing well, although sony as a whole are not.Jul 30 13:37
kentma1One suspects a combination of chinese competition and a recession.Jul 30 13:37
schestowitzYes, McCreevy is like Santa Clauf to the IP monopolies.Jul 30 13:38
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schestowitz 30 15:44
schestowitz 30 15:44
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schestowitzMicrosoft appears to be moving off Windows (though Mary Jo Foley begs to dffer). 30 16:09
shyam_kmicrokernel-based OS? so next is 236 patent cases against hurd?Jul 30 16:11
shyam_k;-) they should do it that way..Jul 30 16:12
schestowitzHow is Hurd coming along anyway? I occasionally read about it. Microsoft has Xenis.Jul 30 16:13
schestowitz*Xenix.Jul 30 16:13
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SeveredCrossQuiet here.Jul 30 18:04
schestowitzYes. Feel free to bring up a topic or idea.Jul 30 18:05
SeveredCrossNah, just wanna listen in.Jul 30 18:06
schestowitzThe chats are bursty (fashion-wise). it's idle most of the time, but sometimes there's a more engaging conversation.Jul 30 18:07
SeveredCrossI happened upon the website, and while I can't say I agree with your points, I figured I'd listen in on the conversation some.Jul 30 18:11
schestowitzOne thing worth writing about tomorrow is probably the marketing (almost half a billion spent on brainwash at the moment). It's a turning point. The compatibility argument changes a wee bit if you consider the recession and the fact that not many people will buy compatible hardware for that 'new' OS (not Mojave).Jul 30 18:12
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schestowitzI'm trying to get sorted out a Web-based access to the IRc channel.Jul 30 21:08
schestowitzDoes anyone know mibbit?Jul 30 21:08
SeveredCrossYes, but not very well.Jul 30 21:10
schestowitzIt works fine with mibbit servers, but now with Freenode.Jul 30 21:10
schestowitzOkay, I've just cracked the first barrier...Jul 30 21:14
schestowitzI think I know what's blocking it.Jul 30 21:32
>chanserv<unban *!*@gateway/web/ajax/*Jul 30 21:37
-ChanServ-Channel *!*@gateway/web/ajax/* is not registered.Jul 30 21:37
*#boycottnovell Banlist: Sat Jun 21 06:14:11 *!*@gateway/web/ajax/* ChanServ!ChanServ@services.Jul 30 21:40
*#boycottnovell :End of Channel Ban ListJul 30 21:40
*#boycottnovell Banlist: Sat Jun 21 06:14:11 *!*@gateway/web/ajax/* ChanServ!ChanServ@services.Jul 30 21:41
*#boycottnovell :End of Channel Ban ListJul 30 21:41
*#boycottnovell Banlist: Sat Jun 21 06:14:11 *!*@gateway/web/ajax/* ChanServ!ChanServ@services.Jul 30 21:42
*#boycottnovell :End of Channel Ban ListJul 30 21:42
*schestowitz removes ban on *!*@gateway/web/ajax/*Jul 30 21:44
*#boycottnovell :End of Channel Ban ListJul 30 21:44
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*ChanServ sets ban on *!*@gateway/web/ajax/*Jul 30 21:45
*ChanServ has kicked mib_1vkv0v from #boycottnovell (Banned: Get a real IRC client)Jul 30 21:45
schestowitzHmmm... that didn't work.Jul 30 21:46
*#boycottnovell Banlist: Wed Jul 30 20:46:46 *!*@gateway/web/ajax/* ChanServ!ChanServ@services.Jul 30 21:46
*#boycottnovell :End of Channel Ban ListJul 30 21:46
SeveredCrossUhm the reason it's getting banned is not the channel, it's freenode.Jul 30 21:46
*schestowitz removes ban on *!*@gateway/web/ajax/*Jul 30 21:46
schestowitzOh.Jul 30 21:46
*#boycottnovell :End of Channel Ban ListJul 30 21:46
SeveredCrossFreenode has some strange strict rules about banning clients like Mibbit, etc.Jul 30 21:46
SeveredCrossTry to use CGI::IRC, it might not be banned.Jul 30 21:47
schestowitzBut it worked before [H]omer set up this rule.Jul 30 21:47
schestowitzHe banned it cause trolls came from there.Jul 30 21:47
schestowitzI'm sure it worked fine before. See 30 21:48
schestowitzWhat's more, I saw other sites linking to freenode from mibbit. I'll try again.Jul 30 21:49
SeveredCrossHmm.Jul 30 21:50
*mib_q19bm4 (i=8258be5d@gateway/web/ajax/ has joined #boycottnovellJul 30 21:50
*ChanServ sets ban on *!*@gateway/web/ajax/*Jul 30 21:50
*ChanServ has kicked mib_q19bm4 from #boycottnovell (Banned: Get a real IRC client)Jul 30 21:50
moparxcheck your channel settings. it is set for auto kick/ban for that hostJul 30 21:50
schestowitzNo luck.Jul 30 21:51
schestowitzOh.Jul 30 21:51
schestowitzDo  banning and kicking work separately?Jul 30 21:51
schestowitzI was simply blocked when it was on ban.Jul 30 21:51
*#boycottnovell Banlist: Wed Jul 30 20:52:06 *!*@gateway/web/ajax/* ChanServ!ChanServ@services.Jul 30 21:51
*#boycottnovell :End of Channel Ban ListJul 30 21:51
schestowitzIt's strange. I remove the rule (ban) [H]omer set up, but it comes back when mibbit connects.Jul 30 21:52
*schestowitz removes ban on *!*@gateway/web/ajax/*Jul 30 21:53
*#boycottnovell :End of Channel Ban ListJul 30 21:53
moparxit shouldn't come back if you remove the akick. removing just from the channel ban list wont do anythingJul 30 21:53
schestowitzakick?Jul 30 21:53
*tmeyer has quit (Remote closed the connection)Jul 30 21:53
moparxtype this: /msg chanserv akick #boycottnovell listJul 30 21:54
>chanserv<akick #boycottnovell listJul 30 21:54
-ChanServ-AKICK list for #boycottnovell:Jul 30 21:54
-ChanServ-1: *!*@gateway/web/ajax/* Get a real IRC client [modified: 5 weeks, 4 days, 14:51:52 ago]Jul 30 21:54
-ChanServ-Total of 1 entry in #boycottnovell's AKICK list.Jul 30 21:54
schestowitzOh, I see.Jul 30 21:54
*#boycottnovell :End of Channel Ban ListJul 30 21:54
schestowitzHow do I clear the kick?Jul 30 21:54
moparxuse delJul 30 21:55
>chanserv<akick #boycottnovell del *!*@gateway/web/ajax/*Jul 30 21:55
-ChanServ-*!*@gateway/web/ajax/* has been removed from the AKICK list for #boycottnovell.Jul 30 21:55
moparx '/msg chanserv akick #boycottnovell del blahblahblah'Jul 30 21:55
*#boycottnovell :End of Channel Ban ListJul 30 21:55
schestowitzOK. I'll test it now.Jul 30 21:55
*mib_m8odp7 (i=8258be5d@gateway/web/ajax/ has joined #boycottnovellJul 30 21:56
mib_m8odp7Hello world.Jul 30 21:58
schestowitzWow, that's quite some lag. Like 10 seconds.Jul 30 21:58
mib_m8odp7Hello world.Jul 30 21:58
schestowitzbetter than nothing, I guess.Jul 30 21:58
schestowitzI'll modify the site now. Thanks a milion, moparx  and SeveredCross.Jul 30 21:59
schestowitz*millionJul 30 21:59
*mib_m8odp7 has quit (Client Quit)Jul 30 21:59
moparxNo ProblemJul 30 22:00
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