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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: August 4th, 2008

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schestowitzGreat news to mobile Linux: http://www.forbes.com/technol...Aug 04 06:25
kentmaI think that having several competing groups here is a good thing.  the mobile markets are so huge (many times larger than the PC market) that it's important to have multiple players.Aug 04 06:57
schestowitzAre both working in connection with the PF?Aug 04 06:58
schestowitz*LF?Aug 04 06:58
kentmaOSDL used to have the Mobile Linux Initiative, which is where I met Bill Weinberger.  MLI was merged into LiMo when LF was formed.Aug 04 06:59
schestowitzSame with Weinberg's newer group, which got swallowed by LiMo.Aug 04 07:00
kentmaIndeed.Aug 04 07:01
kentmaThat was Lips, I think.Aug 04 07:01
schestowitzNever call a business LiPS.Aug 04 07:01
schestowitzYes, that's the name.Aug 04 07:01
kentmaFT started it.Aug 04 07:02
schestowitzWho's/what's that? (FT)Aug 04 07:02
schestowitzFinancial Times. :-) -)Aug 04 07:02
kentmaFrance TelecomAug 04 07:02
kentmaDT  = deutsche telekomAug 04 07:02
kentmaTI = telecom ItaliaAug 04 07:02
kentmaAT&T = american telephone & telegraphAug 04 07:03
schestowitzMicrosoft's Windows mobile business missed targets recently.Aug 04 07:03
kentmaNTT = nippon telephone telegraph...Aug 04 07:03
kentma:-)Aug 04 07:03
schestowitzAs on the desktop, Linux' challenge is beating iPhone.Aug 04 07:03
kentmaI don't think microsoft have a cat's whisker of a chance of ever building up another monopoly - they've been so abusive that nobody trusts them at all.Aug 04 07:04
schestowitzThat's what I think too because I recently read about the motivation of Symbian.Aug 04 07:05
schestowitzIt came to me as a history lesson, but the phone makers just didn't want to live on razor-thin margins, being dependent on Ballmer and Chums. See this new one: http://www.linuxworld.com.au/in...Aug 04 07:06
schestowitzIt's infectious. Last week it was NSW's entire educational system.Aug 04 07:06
kentmaIt's domino time, isn't it?Aug 04 07:11
kentmaWe're so far past the "tipping point", it's amazing.Aug 04 07:11
schestowitzIt's proprietary, so they merely swap masters and have no platform barriers. Let's hope that Google keeps humble, which honestly I doubt.Aug 04 07:11
schestowitzBTW, that's just why Microsoft is so afraid of Googe. Watch what IBM is doing now: http://www.itwire.com/index.php?opti...Aug 04 07:12
kentmaYou're right, there's still plenty of risk with google.  The key would be for ODF to be adopted everywhere, then lock-in disappears as a problem.  oo.org is key to this, of course.Aug 04 07:13
schestowitzGoogle supports ODF. It could enhance its software though. Also, terms of use can be changed 'on the fly' and you have no source code or an ability to relocate to other servers.Aug 04 07:15
kentmaWell, if everything is stored in ODF, then there's no lock-in point at the file format, which is a critical point.Aug 04 07:16
schestowitzThe rest of 'the cloud' is still not inter-operable. It's never part of the plan. Business thrives in making things not work with others once you pocket the user.Aug 04 07:17
schestowitzDirectX, ActiveX, OOXML... Novell too has some lock-ins.Aug 04 07:18
schestowitzI'm still truly disgusted by how a Microsoft partner attacked FOSS < http://osourcemobile.com/2008/07/open... > and the press parroted this without critical assessment. "Hey, Fortify, show that world that Java and open source are evil and will destroy enterprises. We might then promote your alliance status..."Aug 04 07:19
kentmaI agree that keeping the eyeballs is essential to web-based businesses, and that they'll try to do this any way that they can.Aug 04 07:32
kentmaThe AGPL is very much a necessary next step here, but I remain very concerned that even the linux kernel is struggling to get onto GPLv3.Aug 04 07:32
schestowitzzoho could snatch their users.Aug 04 07:32
kentmatrueAug 04 07:33
schestowitzAGPLv3='GPLv4'Aug 04 07:33
kentmaindeed.Aug 04 07:34
schestowitzGPLv3 compromised because of whiners who wants as biz model, not freedom. TiVo didn't get its way though.Aug 04 07:35
schestowitz*want aAug 04 07:35
schestowitzI think I've just caught another Microsoft 'mole'Aug 04 07:48
kentmaPeter K and spike were arguing very much against GPLv3.Aug 04 07:49
kentmaIndeed - who?Aug 04 07:49
schestowitzI wrote this one before: http://boycottnovell.com/200...Aug 04 07:50
schestowitzNow there's this from the same guy: "Microsoft gains ground as school dumps Linux OS" ( http://www.mb.com.ph/INFO2008... , same author)Aug 04 07:50
kentmaWow - that article reads exactly, 100%, like all the FUD we've seen in cola for years.  What a load of bollox.Aug 04 07:53
kentmaLInux is difficult, has compatibility and technical issues, reports must be in "powerpoint", programmes and apps were not available in linux, user interface was confusing since they used windows at ahome, the school offers training on Microsoft technologies (but, presumably, not Linux ones), teachers weren't trained on Linux so couldn't use it.Aug 04 07:55
kentmaI think I can sum that up as "we didn't train everyone, so they had problems".Aug 04 07:55
kentmaWow.Aug 04 07:55
schestowitzI won't bring it up in COLA because it can be used by anti-Linux folks. I will, however, write something about Melvin.Aug 04 07:55
kentmaIt rather proves the point.Aug 04 07:56
schestowitzWell, trust me when I say that I've seen heaps of articles about successful school migrations to GNU/Linux. That's why I don't buy it.Aug 04 07:56
schestowitzAnother writer, Oliva IIRC, covered this too (again, IIRC). What it basically said was that a Microsoft partner stepped in to 'save' the school. That's why I believe Microsoft just played whack-a-mole with these schools. That's what it did in Nigeria for example.Aug 04 07:57
kentmaIt reaks of manipulation and dishonesty.  It would be good to contact someone at the school for an independent reaction.Aug 04 07:57
schestowitzThere was actually a much larger migration to Linux in the country. I suppose Microsoft wants it stopped and people stuck in the OOXML/Vista bandwagon ASAP.Aug 04 07:58
schestowitzhttp://www.openmalaysiablog.com/2... "And the most hilarious letter of support comes from a Singaporean secondary girl's school, Crescent Girl's School. That's right folks, that's how desperate they were to get their "Approve" vote, they actually got a school to submit a letter of support..."Aug 04 08:01
schestowitzOh wait!!Aug 04 08:03
schestowitz"Well well well, Barney Lau is leaving Microsoft Singapore. Wonder if this had anything to do with it. Good riddance I say!".... "Posted by:ex-MS | Wednesday, 09 July 2008 at 02:25 PM"!!!Aug 04 08:03
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schestowitzIt's just like in India. They leave in embarrassment perhaps. The MD of Microsoft India was reportedly (corroborated by at least 2 sources I've seen) leaving amid the OOXML disaster... after that possible bribery of charities and all... later came the letters from professors who exposed Microsoft.Aug 04 08:05
kentmaSupport from a singaporean girl's school.  Hmm, wonder if that's the one my niece was attending...Aug 04 08:10
schestowitzRelated to this (same games in Denmark): http://lodahl.blogspot.com/200...Aug 04 08:11
kentmaThe web is very very good for exposing all this stuff.  It's also why we need some competition for google.  If the US Gov starts to manipulate google, then they control the world's information.Aug 04 08:12
kentmaWe need a google equiv in the eu and in asia/pac too.  perhaps in africa and russia.Aug 04 08:13
schestowitzSimon Phipps has just shared this in his blog: http://www.salon.com/opinion...Aug 04 08:13
schestowitz"The idea that the U.S. can exert meaningful leverage on China's surveillance behavior is laughable for reasons wholly independent of what the U.S. Government itself does with regard to spying on its own citizens. Nonetheless, to watch U.S. Senators like Sam Brownback actually maintain a straight face while protesting China's warrantless spying..."Aug 04 08:14
schestowitzI'm very much against daemonisation of China. It's not just the US which does this so hypocrticcally. I think that, for the economy at the least, they need to poison people against China (torch example).Aug 04 08:15
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kentma1I'm trying to restart my blog with aeonity, but finding the interface to be awful - anysuggestions?Aug 04 08:55
schestowitzIs it not just a raw text thing?Aug 04 08:56
kentma1no, it's not... it does some slightly clever things which are quite annoying...Aug 04 08:56
schestowitzIf you don't have much to migrate (posts), consider moving it to WordPress. You can install it on your domain very quickly.Aug 04 08:57
schestowitz[News] GNU/Linux Desktops and Laptops in the Big PressAug 04 08:57
schestowitzOoops. This one: http://themes.wordpress.net/Aug 04 08:57
kentma1I might look at a move...Aug 04 08:58
kentma1can I push html onto it?Aug 04 08:58
schestowitzYes, either that or GUI. There's choice.Aug 04 08:58
kentma1okay - maybe I'll try to move.  I'll have to find the details for my domain, now!Aug 04 08:59
schestowitzChoose bigger fonts this time.Aug 04 09:01
kentma1aeonity is a little frustrating, because the text entry method is awful, and although it can accept html, it also observes line-lengths, which is very very irritating.Aug 04 09:01
kentma1I've had enough of it!Aug 04 09:01
kentma1:-)Aug 04 09:01
kentma1wasn't much to remove, anyway.Aug 04 09:07
kentma1ah progress, I have it from pipex :-)Aug 04 09:08
schestowitzJust grab the posts and comments. You can restore them quickly.Aug 04 09:08
kentma1I've just been doing that.Aug 04 09:10
kentma1okay, well, I've managed to find my domain, anyway...Aug 04 09:19
schestowitzGot the files to upload yet?Aug 04 09:23
kentma1almost all,  yesAug 04 09:23
kentma1Have you tried gnome-blog or kblogger-kde?Aug 04 09:23
kentma1or drivel for that matter (name puts me off, though!)Aug 04 09:24
schestowitzNo, I haven't. I work with Kate (kate) and with many tabs in Firefox.Aug 04 09:24
kentma1I'm wondering if one of them will make my life easier... perhaps.  How usable is the wordpress interface just on a browser?Aug 04 09:29
schestowitzVery, IMHO. I've used it for 4 years though. It's simple enough for my 78-year-old relative in FL to manage extremely well, even master.Aug 04 09:31
kentma1okay, ta.Aug 04 09:37
kentma1Presumably the wordpress.org free version is adequate for most uses, or should I host my own?Aug 04 09:38
schestowitzHost your own. wp.com is the "hosted by third party (WordPress)" option and wp.org is the GPLed version for you to deploy.Aug 04 09:40
kentma1ah, okay.Aug 04 09:40
schestowitzI think I have 6 installations of WordPress at the moment. Some were done for testing purposes back in the days when I contributed more.Aug 04 09:40
kentma1on my apache it'll have to go, then!Aug 04 09:40
schestowitzI lobbied for Postgres support.Aug 04 09:41
schestowitzThen, Simon Phipps and Mickos mailed me off list.Aug 04 09:41
kentma1to keep it mysql?Aug 04 09:41
schestowitzWell, yeah... I proposed supporting more DBs after Sun not only bought MySQL but MySQL began taking about closing further.Aug 04 09:42
schestowitzI'm not sure why I relented. Anyway, it's there in the archive, as well as a long discussion I started about moving it to GPLv3.Aug 04 09:43
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kentma1schestowitz: I'm needing to do a server upgrade... we might hit the ssh issue...Aug 04 10:16
schestowitzOld SQL? Old PHP? Only PHP4 is supported BTW.Aug 04 10:18
schestowitzI feel much better after posting this: http://boycottnovell.com/200...Aug 04 10:18
kentma1Ihave posted a follow-up...;Aug 04 10:22
schestowitzmany recent links about Adam Farquhar here: http://boycottnovell.com/20...Aug 04 10:25
kentma1I don't trust him an inch.Aug 04 10:26
schestowitzHe looks harmless, you have to admit it (visually)Aug 04 10:27
schestowitzThere is also something about libraries that makes them hard to associate with corruption. Same in the Library of Congress in the US by the way (Silverlight... they took a 'bribe' of $3 million to do it).Aug 04 10:28
kentma1I agree, they're an apparently unlikely spot for corruption, just like universities, but how many comp-sci departments are "windows only"?Aug 04 10:33
schestowitzThey try to lock down public info (critical stuff) to ensure serious dependency.Aug 04 10:34
schestowitzIt's sad because they now try to grab medical data too (tried this two years ago), so as to get bankruptcy protection just like SGI in case things go awry in the future (worst-case scenario).Aug 04 10:35
schestowitzThey see what's coming (other platforms take over), so grabbing public information and making it available only to Microsoft customers (with the Enablement of the world's Farquhars) is a strategy.Aug 04 10:36
kentma1There are plenty of them around.  did I show you the Mark Seery article on BT recently?Aug 04 10:38
kentma1upgrade begun now...Aug 04 10:38
kentma1http://www.ovum.com/news/e...Aug 04 10:39
schestowitzYou haven't no.Aug 04 10:39
schestowitzOh, you just have.Aug 04 10:39
kentma1read that - it's only about 4 paras!Aug 04 10:39
schestowitzI think I saw this before.Aug 04 10:41
kentma1perhaps, yes.  It's been well-read!Aug 04 10:41
schestowitzI always love a good smoking gun... http://boycottnovell.com/20...Aug 04 11:06
kentma1excellent!Aug 04 11:11
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schestowitzkentma: I'm falling off the server: "                                                            channel 3: open failed: connect failed: Connection refused channel 3: open failed: connect failed: Connection refused"Aug 04 11:42
kentmathis on my server?Aug 04 11:43
schestowitzYes.Aug 04 11:43
schestowitzEach time a request is made it spews out: "channel 3: open failed: connect failed: Connection refused"Aug 04 11:44
kentmahmm, yes, not sure what's happened here - hang on.Aug 04 11:44
kentmatry now?Aug 04 11:46
schestowitzWorks now, I think. Ta.Aug 04 11:51
kentmaokay - upgrade still going on - let me know if anything else fails.Aug 04 11:56
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_Dougping ...Aug 04 12:06
kentma_Doug: ackAug 04 12:08
schestowitzI've just posted the MOG thing in COLA. LinuxWorld starts today, so Microsoft might already be prepared for spin, albeit behind the scenes.Aug 04 12:10
_Dougnack ..Aug 04 12:24
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_Douggoodday mate ..Aug 04 12:46
ZiggyFishhow's it goingAug 04 12:46
_DougIt goes cool .. :)Aug 04 12:47
schestowitzLinuxWorld... scary. Lots of stuff to keep track of.Aug 04 12:47
ZiggyFishI was looking at this new site today (forgotten the URL though)Aug 04 12:48
ZiggyFishLinuxWorld, is not that hard to keep track of, however ComputerWorld isAug 04 12:49
schestowitzThe expo though will have many announcements made (I know about a few), including Novell ones.Aug 04 12:55
ZiggyFish(just realised what he was talking about)Aug 04 12:56
schestowitzI've worked hard over the weekend to finish some work. So now I should be able to focus attention on LinuxWorld.Aug 04 12:56
schestowitzI'm still quite amazed by this one ( http://www.groklaw.net/art... ), which I've just gone through more slowly. Where's the media, which shies away from such corruption?Aug 04 12:57
ZiggyFishon that note, was just reading this, LinuxWorld: Showcasing the OS in data centers, mobile devices, e-voting <http://www.computerworld.com/action/articl...Aug 04 12:57
schestowitzYes, I saw that too. What's your take on the author?Aug 04 12:58
ZiggyFishfrom that article, he looks to know something about Linux, and is more bias to Linux then windowsAug 04 13:00
ZiggyFishs/windows/MicrosoftAug 04 13:00
schestowitzYes, he never seemed to have an agenda. There's a colleague of his, Keizer, who covers a lot of Windows security flukes. Then again, I thought I caught them trolling sometimes.They are not public figures though. I personally hope that the 'mainstream' press will continue its decline in terms of influence because this power corrupts and Microsoft puts money on the table (see Groklaw URL above).Aug 04 13:02
ZiggyFishalthough lately there has been some press criticising MicrosoftAug 04 13:04
ZiggyFishespecially on the apache issueAug 04 13:05
schestowitz_Doug: any embarrassments in the Novell newsletter? I can't find any based on the top part.Aug 04 13:05
schestowitzNo.Aug 04 13:06
schestowitzOpposite, I think.Aug 04 13:06
schestowitzThe press was spoonfed the Microsoft embraces OSS with ApacheAug 04 13:06
schestowitzI saw this in over 10 publications, maybe 20. Bruce's piece was an isolated Op-ed that made Slashdot.Aug 04 13:06
schestowitz“As discussed in our PR meeting this morning. David & I have spoken with Maureen O’Gara (based on go ahead from BrianV) and planted the story. She has agreed to not attribute the story to us…." ---->>>> "“As discussed in our PR meeting this morning. Ballmer, Ramji & I have spoken with Maureen O’Gara (based on go ahead from BrianV) and planted the Apache story. She has agreed to not attribute the story to us…."Aug 04 13:07
schestowitzJust a slant on the way Microsoft operates. http://www.groklaw.net/articleb...Aug 04 13:08
_DougNovell: No,  I haven't read it just passed it on ..Aug 04 13:10
schestowitzI found something in it though.Aug 04 13:11
schestowitz"Now you can confidently run Windows Server 2008 as a virtualised guest on top of the Xen hypervisor in SUSE Linux Enterprise 10 and receive co-operative support from either company. As part of its extensive interoperability agreement with Microsoft, Novell holds a unique position as SUSE Linux Enterprise is currently the only..."Aug 04 13:11
_DougCan other OSs run on top of hypervisor, without violating M$s patents ? :)Aug 04 13:12
_DougEmbrace and pollute ..Aug 04 13:13
schestowitzNope.Aug 04 13:14
schestowitzThat's the point, which I will raise later. This was discussed before but Novell shoots itself in the foot by bragging about it.Aug 04 13:15
schestowitz"I signed a deal with the devil and I can now ask it to bully you for lunch money, which he will then share with me"Aug 04 13:16
ZiggyFishdidn't even know that their were patents on hypervisor technology, considering it has been around before Microsoft implemented it.Aug 04 13:16
ZiggyFishfrom the wikipediaAug 04 13:16
ZiggyFishThe first hypervisor providing full virtualization was IBM's CP-40, a one-off research system that began production use in January 1967, and which became the first version of IBM's CP/CMS operating system. CP-40 ran on a one-off S/360-40 that was customized to support virtualization. Prior to this time, computer hardware had only been virtualized enough to allow multiple user applications to be run (see CTSS and IBM M44/44X)Aug 04 13:17
schestowitzIt's more of a licensing thing. Microsoft add secret addons and you must pay for access to them.Aug 04 13:18
ZiggyFishMicrosoft version Hyper-V: The supported/tested list of guest operating systems includes x86 and x64 editions of Windows Server 2008, Windows Server 2003, Windows 2000 Server SP4 and Advanced Server SP4,[4] Windows HPC Server 2008, |_SUSE Linux Enterprise Server 10 SP1/SP2_|, Windows Vista SP1 (except Home editions) and Windows XP Professional SP2/SP3/x64.[5] Windows Server 2008 guests and Windows HPC Server 2008 can be confAug 04 13:22
schestowitzYes, SUSE is now listed like a Microsoft products. Buffered among names of Windows releases...Aug 04 13:23
schestowitzMicrosoft's chief chill in the UK (Richard Steele) calls it  Microsoft's SUSE: http://www.cio.co.uk/blogs/inde...Aug 04 13:24
ZiggyFishwhere's the url to that above quoteAug 04 13:26
ZiggyFish(want to see the rest of the paragraph)Aug 04 13:26
ZiggyFishie. .....is currently the only ????Aug 04 13:27
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Aug 4 13:27:01 2008
**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Aug 4 13:27:14 2008
*Now talking on #boycottnovellAug 04 13:27
*Topic for #boycottnovell is: Exploring the reality behind exclusionary deals with Microsoft and their subtle (yet severe) implications (publicly logged)Aug 04 13:27
*Topic for #boycottnovell set by schestowitz at Wed Jun 4 08:34:16 2008Aug 04 13:27
-ChanServ-[#boycottnovell] Welcome to the #boycottnovell channelAug 04 13:27
*ChanServ gives channel operator status to schestowitzAug 04 13:27
schestowitzOops.Aug 04 13:27
schestowitzDid I miss anything?Aug 04 13:27
ZiggyFishnope, what happenedAug 04 13:27
schestowitzI pressed CTRL+W instead of Shift+W. happened before...Aug 04 13:28
ZiggyFishlolAug 04 13:28
ZiggyFishanyway found the answer to my questionAug 04 13:29
schestowitzIt happens when I type and having soup at the same time.Aug 04 13:29
ZiggyFishto finished that quote,Aug 04 13:29
ZiggyFish.... Novell holds a unique position as SUSE Linux Enterprise is currently the only Xen hypervisor on which Microsoft will provide full support today for Windows Server 2008 and Windows Server 2003 running as a virtual guest. Microsoft's Server Virtualization Validation Program is designed to provide customers with additional peace of mind.Aug 04 13:30
schestowitzLOL @ http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/08... . That's the same company that allows government snoops.Aug 04 13:31
kentmaso we can now read "additional peace of mind" as "vendor lock-in"Aug 04 13:31
ZiggyFishkentma: yepAug 04 13:31
kentma:-)Aug 04 13:31
schestowitzPeavce of mind. Like security... financial security.Aug 04 13:31
schestowitzLinux in MBR is blocked... due to fiancial security and securities filing.Aug 04 13:32
ZiggyFishlolAug 04 13:32
ZiggyFishthe quote is from this pageAug 04 13:32
ZiggyFishhttp://www.novell.com/communit...Aug 04 13:32
schestowitzHushmail: no, there's no back door. Just come knocking on our door (if you have a warrant) and we'll let you in.Aug 04 13:33
kentmathe encrypted mail thing very much suggests that if one really wants privacy, using  one's own encoding, and ideally, a code-book too, is probably essential.  I'd be tempted to combine it with anonymous remailing in order to reduce the impact of traffic analysis, and preferably, have multiple ISP accounts for the same reason.Aug 04 13:34
schestowitzI use PGP with various people. We encrypt everythingAug 04 13:35
schestowitzKeeps the ISP busy and irritated.Aug 04 13:35
_Doug"additional peace of mind", don't you just love the phrasiology. Do business with us, or my friend Fat Tony will beat you up .. :)Aug 04 13:35
schestowitzHah.Aug 04 13:35
schestowitzWell, they have I - P - R.Aug 04 13:35
schestowitzI caught Ron Hovsepian sort of lying about that "it's not about IP" deal.Aug 04 13:36
*ZiggyFish thinks _Doug watches to many simpsons episodesAug 04 13:36
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schestowitzI'd have to find that post sometimes. It was a quote from him, I think. And I also think he nodded when B allmer announced the deal as an IP thing (in the press conference).Aug 04 13:37
schestowitzSCO too offered peace of mind (indemnification. And Tony can also be Soprano.Aug 04 13:38
bendieHave you read this already: http://derstandard.at/?id=1216918402134? Headline: Miguel de Icaza: "We could refresh the look and feel of the entire desktop with Moonlight"Aug 04 13:38
bendiehttp://derstandard.at/?ur...Aug 04 13:39
schestowitzNo, I missed it. good find.Aug 04 13:39
schestowitz"Es ist leider ein Fehler aufgetreten. Bitte versuchen Sie es später noch einmal." Aug 04 13:39
ZiggyFishtranslationAug 04 13:40
schestowitzOK, second one works.Aug 04 13:40
bendieSorry, I posed the first as a question and therefore added a question mark. Silly...Aug 04 13:40
schestowitzDer Standard interviews Microsoft people now? It sounds like Novell will indeed please Microsoft with WPF.Aug 04 13:41
kentmaIch werde es spater lesen...Aug 04 13:41
schestowitz"WCF (Windows Communication Foundation) is happening, although it is happening very slowly because it is very large. We have the basics in place but itAug 04 13:41
schestowitzis not complete. Also WCF is not really high performance so we are just pointing people to use ICE from ZeroC instead (or Google Protocol Buffers), if you wantAug 04 13:41
schestowitzsomething fast - use that."Aug 04 13:41
ZiggyFishwell at least the Novel website is powered by php, and apacheAug 04 13:42
kentmaah, I've found an äAug 04 13:42
kentmaspäterAug 04 13:42
kentma:-)Aug 04 13:42
kentmaplus tard.Aug 04 13:42
schestowitzWilcommen Microsoft Code inside your Linux: ""Also one thing that is very unique: Microsoft is going to be distributing an add-on to Moonlight called the "media pack". And that add-on contains all the media codecs that Silverlight uses""Aug 04 13:43
ZiggyFishlolAug 04 13:43
ZiggyFishanyway, it's getting late, so got to goAug 04 13:44
kentmacomplete with phone home... um... nach hause anrufen? :-)Aug 04 13:44
ZiggyFishc ya allAug 04 13:44
kentmacheers ZiggyFishAug 04 13:44
bendie"I am also trying to convince people that we need to redo certain desktop components using Moonlight because we could get a flashier, nicer user interface with the designers actually prototyping this interface in Inkscape or blender."Aug 04 13:44
bendieIcaza seems to have had a look at Kde 4.1 ;-)Aug 04 13:45
schestowitzCya, ZiggyFish Aug 04 13:45
schestowitzYes, that's Miguel.Aug 04 13:45
schestowitzBut "No"... he insists that he isn't replacing what's in Linux with Microsoft junk... not at all... Aug 04 13:45
schestowitz"This is a new group inside of Novell. Basically my team grew from about 30 to 40 people over the last year and a half. Most of the hires went to Moonlight, so now with 15 people working on Moonlight, the biggest part are new hires."Aug 04 13:46
schestowitzYup, this confims what he said last year. It materialised. Novell is acking loads of people and hired .NET people. Willkommen, Microsoft. I giveth thou Novell.Aug 04 13:47
schestowitzde Icaza: That's what some people want you to believe. But I don't think that's the case. Linux on the desktop is still a very small amount of people. If you believe that getting the Linux desktop people happy is what you need to validate a technology, you have lost a sense of proportion.Aug 04 13:48
schestowitzderStandard.at: But isn't their message more like "moving in that direction"? For instance stuff like HTML5 video support is just coming up.Aug 04 13:48
schestowitzMiguel's response: Linux is minuscule. To hell with standards (he loves OOXML). Some p-eople say he should just leap over to Microsoft, but it seems like Novell too is becoming a mini-Microsoft, at least a portion of it.Aug 04 13:49
kentmaIf he's daft enough to believe that propaganda, then I've no problem with him sinking with the Microsoft ship.Aug 04 13:54
schestowitzIt would be so much easier if Microsoft just bought Novell. At that stage, people would not longer question the site's motives and realise that it's inevitable.Aug 04 13:56
schestowitzI'll do a couple of posts now.Aug 04 13:56
schestowitzbendie: thanks a million for the pointer by the way.Aug 04 13:57
bendieYou're welcome. I was reading it and thought it really has to be mentioned on www.boycottnovell.com :-)Aug 04 13:59
schestowitzI assume it was published today (didn't see a date). I couldn't find him talking about KDE.Aug 04 13:59
bendieIt was published yesterday (date is at the end of the interview)Aug 04 14:00
bendieHe doesn't mention Kde, but this idea about being able to design desktop elements directly with svg sounds very much Plasma-inspiredAug 04 14:02
schestowitzOh, yes. I noticed that. About Apple-like Web/desktop widgets.Aug 04 14:05
schestowitzThat's Aaron Seigo's work (he has just gone back to blogging publicly, with moderation on comments.)Aug 04 14:06
*_Doug has quit ()Aug 04 14:31
schestowitzMicrosoft Jack uses Novell to attack Microsoft "biggest competitor": http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/techno...Aug 04 16:30
kentmago-oo is a meaks project, presumably funded by novell, it's opening claim is that it has OOXML support, so presumably, it's about paying dues to Microsfot.Aug 04 16:36
kentmaIn fact, I'm appalled that schofield could even get away with publish such clearly biassed tosh.Aug 04 16:39
schestowitzHe does this all the time in his blog. He attacked Slashdot in the front page recently, throughAug 04 16:42
schestowitzhttp://www.guardian.co.uk/technol... "Slashdot's standard nerd hypocrisy is another running gag. Everyone knows that anything related to Apple/Linux/open source is innovative and cool, whereas if Microsoft had done exactly the same thing, it would be evil and monopolistic. Double standards rule."Aug 04 16:43
schestowitz"Unfortunately, one of the downsides of nerdy sites is that they attract loads of nerds. These are the people who don't have girlfriends or proper jobs; who live on pizza in their parents' basement, and rarely see the sun; who have an encyclopedic knowledge of Star Wars but no common sense."Aug 04 16:43
kentmaShouldn't he be writing for The Sun?Aug 04 16:44
kentmaThe Sun is where "common sense" is valued above education.  Common sense means, of course, what I know and what you should know...Aug 04 16:45
schestowitzWell, as long as they don't put him on page 3, the Sun would suit him.Aug 04 16:48
kentmaOn page 3, he'd find out what "common sense" really means.Aug 04 16:48
kentmabtw - click-online (bbc programme) covered scribus this week. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi...Aug 04 16:52
schestowitzThey describe it as a freebie. You see, they don't want to talk about the philosophy. They also call it "open source", so the message of the software is gone. Better than none, I guess.Aug 04 17:08
schestowitzMore Microsoft Jack garbage: http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/tech... (is he just another MOG?)Aug 04 17:21
SeveredCrossYou think he's wrong? He's absolutely right across the board.Aug 04 17:23
schestowitzSeveredCross: the point is that he's fixated on attacking Microsoft's competition. It's the pattern.Aug 04 17:26
schestowitzSeveredCross: the more serious cases are ones of rewriting history: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/06/22...Aug 04 17:33
*MethodOne (i=4583242a@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-b373a7f44be972e8) has joined #boycottnovellAug 04 17:43
*MethodOne (i=4583242a@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-b373a7f44be972e8) has left #boycottnovellAug 04 17:44
schestowitzDana embarrasses self in public: "I sort of expected a vendor representative to write and offer a unit, but that did not happen. This may tell more about the state of this market than anything else." http://blogs.zdnet.com/open-source/?p=2741 (so he was begging for someone to pull a Microsoft/Edelman bribe). BTW, Groklaw got its AMD server for free, which I still find iffy.Aug 04 18:12
schestowitzLook at this: http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story... (THEY SEEM TO HAVE JUST PULLED THE ARTICLE)Aug 04 18:22
schestowitzCovered here too: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/08... . Given the responses in Linux Today, one might wonder what happened.Aug 04 18:23
*Tallken (n=Tallken@62.169.99.118.rev.optimus.pt) has joined #boycottnovellAug 04 19:54
*moparx (n=moparx@pdpc/supporter/base/moparx) has joined #boycottnovellAug 04 19:57
schestowitz"That is false. Moonlight is usable for anyone on any distribution of Linux (redhat, ubuntu, etc.) -- it is not limited just to Novell as Mono is." -Brian Goldfarb [Microsoft] Aug 04 20:55
schestowitzFrom http://boycottnovell.com/2008/0... : "There you have it from Silverlight's lead dev. So clearly MS believes that only Novell via the 'patent covenant' can use Mono. So this clearly tells us that since Moonlight depends on Mono libs, it is a potential patent trap."Aug 04 20:55
*Tallken has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))Aug 04 21:56
*bendie has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))Aug 04 23:07

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