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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: August 9th, 2008

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schestowitzThis one seems like the latest slashvertisement: 09 06:45
schestowitzWhy does Joe keep defending CompTIA, I wonder...? 09 08:08
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twitterWhy do you consider that Slashdot article a Slashvertisement?  Overall it's a story about deceptive marketing, "Microsoft at it's worst," and the continuing Vista failure. Can there be any doubt that spending three or five million bucks on lame advertising is anything but cool?Aug 09 19:36
schestowitzOkay, this one is tough.Aug 09 19:37
schestowitzI saw that article from the Economist (IIRC) the day beforehand and I didn't read it carefully. Any way it goes, it serves as an advertisement because it gave visibility to the marketing stunt, with an active URL.Aug 09 19:38
schestowitzThere were times when a professor gently complained to me that when I criticise Windows products like Silverlight I absolutely must lead reader to the technologies Microsoft tried to eliminate. Complaining about X still gives that X some visibility, which helps it. A better approach would be to show Y.Aug 09 19:39
schestowitz*MS products, I mean.Aug 09 19:40
twitterThat makes sense in a general way but I'm not sure where a Vista failure story should lead other than a belly laugh.Aug 09 19:52
twitterI like that Slashdot is now showing well in Google's news section.  That's a good counter to the Wintel version of reality.Aug 09 19:53
schestowitzI guess I've seen better examples than this. Others did too. For instance, they did a lot of 'air time' when Microsoft sucked up to FOSS devs.Aug 09 19:54
twitterYes, their coverage of the suck up could have been better.Aug 09 19:56
schestowitzThe tags gets changed too.Aug 09 19:58
twitterGiven the gaming Slashdot suffers, I'm amazed the editors do as well as they do.  The firehose and tags are spammed as hard as the comments are.Aug 09 20:02
twitterOf course, I'm here because I've notice that you often do a better job of putting things together.  :)Aug 09 20:02
schestowitzI ought to show you something (if I can find it). Hold on.Aug 09 20:03
schestowitzWatch the experiment here: 09 20:08
twitterOh yes, I saw that at the time.  As the author of the Vista Failure Log, that tagging issue bothered me a lot.  Soon after you wrote that kdawson got a little starch and front paged my log: 09 20:21
schestowitzI remember that one. I think I still read Slashdot at the time.Aug 09 20:24
twitterI attributed tag manipulation to gaming which has only gotten worse.  It is evident in the comments for the default view and it is evident in story selection.  There is only so much Slashdot can do against dedicated attacks.  That is why we need more sites like yours.Aug 09 20:24
schestowitzA friend of mine encourage others to meta-moderate (I hardly ever do/did this). Who would moderate the moderators or the moderators (recursion)?Aug 09 20:25
schestowitz*encourages *or -> ofAug 09 20:26
twitterI gave that up and am generally discouraged.  It was apparent that meta mods was too much effort for most people and it did not work.  Someone with a botnet will always win these games unless Slashdot changes their code randomly and often.Aug 09 20:34
schestowitzDigg was ruined in a similar way. As one man once said, Web 2.0 (participation) is "everything that can be spammed".Aug 09 20:35
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twitterI still read Slashdot and keep a journal.  The firehose is an interesting tool.  They are not dead yet.  Participation by people like Ray Backman, Bruce Perens and others keep the place from falling all the way down.Aug 09 20:40
schestowitzI didn't know they participated, but given the hard crown (vulgar trolls), I'd be worried about personal attacks and libel.Aug 09 20:41
schestowitz*croidAug 09 20:41
schestowitz*crowd (oops)Aug 09 20:41
twitterRay Beckman is the NewYorkCountryLawyer.  Bruce Perens is himself.  You can follow what Bruce has to say by looking at his homepage,  As for the trolls, I wish Slashdot would go after the idiots who run  He's someone they can get their hands on and start to follow the trail back to groups responsible for organized trolling.Aug 09 20:45
schestowitzMyself and others were repelled to links to disgusting images in Slashdot. The worry is that they can destroy Slashdot by driving away the crowd or having it filtered. We need sites and voice like /.Aug 09 20:47
schestowitzThere are also articles targeting Slashdot's reputation. The Groaniad [sic] had Microsoft Jack air one recently. Direct attack on Slashdot. The Microsoft crowd feel similarly. Will get links...Aug 09 20:49
schestowitzWatch the comment about Slashdot here: 09 20:50
schestowitzMicrosoft Jack: (via - "Netbytes: Slashdot remains a ghetto for nerds | Technology ... " Watch the words. Disgusting.Aug 09 20:52
twitterBy the way, I finally got to your last comment on your Slashdot thread.  What you noticed about the ratio of M$ and other non free puff to free software release news is spot on.  It's like the editors are not reading free software mailing lists or something.Aug 09 21:07
twitterA good example of this was their recent links to Bruce Bryfield articles that pissed all over KDE 4.  The issues were well explained on the KDE Quality list, so I don't know why they linked to Bruce's flames.Aug 09 21:09
schestowitzDo you know the editors? Like, you know, /properly/? When I was active in Slashdot they had different folks on the beat. I only know Malda and he has been posting lots of Matt Asay posts (FPs) since they met or did an interview, which leaks me to believing that nepotism plays a role.Aug 09 21:09
twitterNo, I don't know any of the Slashdot editors.Aug 09 21:10
schestowitz*leads  (and that is, BTW, why I suspect we see a lot of Hilf/Ramji-esque stuff at the top spot, trying to scoop FOSS devs).Aug 09 21:10
schestowitzSeveral Slashdot editors were invited to Redmond (e.g. ). And *they took* the offer.Aug 09 21:11
schestowitzMicrosoft 'loves' GNU/Linux... . I watched the games this afternoon, but the thought fo MSNBC still makes me sick. More sick of it than of suppressive regimes...Aug 09 21:14
twitterHa ha.  I'd love to be wined and dined like Chairman Ho by Bill Gates.  He would not like what I'd tell him, but I'm happy to talk to anyone about software freedom.Aug 09 21:14
schestowitzThey also sort of invited Michael (@ phoronix) to meet Gates. Trust me, they leave no stone unturned and uncovered. Even LUGs they attend these days...Aug 09 21:15
schestowitzHere's an oldie: 09 21:16
schestowitz"According to attendee at a recent Sydney Linux User Group meeting - Microsoft Q&A of which Sarah Bond, Platform Strategy Manager Microsoft. Stated that according to their legal people they cannot reveal which patents are infringed upon because if they do and are..."Aug 09 21:17
schestowitz"they are found to be in breach, then they can claim triple the compensation that they otherwise would be entitled to. Show us the Patent breaches MS or is it just more fud."Aug 09 21:17
schestowitz"What a cop out. Microbloat dont care about interoperability only their IP and the money they can make from it. If they really wanted to work with the Open Source community they would embrace existing licenses and not shove the permissable license down every ones throats."Aug 09 21:17
schestowitz"We dont need OOXML or Microsofts unstable platforms and development model. If I were a company I would tell MS to go and jump regarding their IP. Im not infringing upon their copyright so why should I be concerned. "Aug 09 21:17
twitterI once met a retail clerk who claimed to have been dined at the Gates compound.Aug 09 21:17
schestowitzHeh. "Compound." Where's the barracks?Aug 09 21:24
twitterThe level of cooperation between US companies and the PRC is cause for concern.  Richard Stallman put it this way, " Unlike the first Cold War, in which countries that respected human rights most of the time opposed Communist dictatorships, this will be a contest between two groups of brutal tyrants, both of which deserve the opposition of all people of good will."Aug 09 21:25
twitterMr. Gates, from what I've read, rates a lot of Secret Service "guarding".Aug 09 21:25
schestowitzAny URLs for that? It sounds like it's worth a read. I have some stuff queued for posting (probably tomorrow because it's late enough to be tired and impassionate)Aug 09 21:29
twitterThe no video love for Linux users is no surprise.  GNU/Linux will never be part of the "trusted path" big media insists on.  It is too bad the PRC does not do what a real communist state would - film all the sports and publish it public domain.Aug 09 21:29
twitterURL for the guarding?  That was years ago, but I'll see what I can dig up.Aug 09 21:30
schestowitzThey'd say something about IPR or whatever excuse they can funnel past the guards of the law. Just watch what's going on in India ATM.Aug 09 21:30
schestowitzSeveral days ago, Slashdot linked to those Gates Foundation ads (Time Magazine) from the husband of the former manager. These people game the press like it's a high society exchanging medals.Aug 09 21:31
twitterThey own the press.  You have traced some of that out and that got me thinking the other day about the nasty symbiotic relationship between old media and M$.  M$'s advertising budget must go a long way to covering the software costs of media owners.  That's a story that's more fun to think about than research.Aug 09 21:39
schestowitzManufacturing of thought and policing of perception ought to be considered a felony, but who calls the shots when it comes to law? Brainwash comes cheap. Just watch how many people use the word "piracy" inappropriately.Aug 09 21:40
schestowitzWell, here's another thing I've just noticed. As soon as I posted something about OSUSE, some people who lurk attack. I know that folks like benJIman are part of "The Eye". Anyway, there's this new one: (came just minutes after I had posted it). They used to ignore the site and now they laugh. Well...Aug 09 21:41
twitterI just got finished reading that Scobleizer link, ouch for both of you.  I can't believe he pumped up Visual Basic journal experience as evidence he knew how computers worked and I laughed out loud at "  I’ve done more than 500 video interviews that are all in the public eye and mostly unedited and filmed in one take — most of which are an hour long and have a lot of back and forth and I NEVER prepare"Aug 09 21:54
schestowitzYou read all of them?!?! Even *I* never did and it was a long time ago. Other blogs joined this argument. Aug 09 21:55
twitterOh no, I just read 09 21:56
schestowitzHe's still overrated, I think, but it's momentum- and perception-driven. I hope that I can carry on blogging for a while. Readership has grown steadily every month for the past 12 months (at least). The number of comments say very little or nothing at all. It keeps me going.Aug 09 21:56
schestowitzAs I said yesterday, it's the bullying that got me into this. The abuse against me got me curious because they have done it to others, who ran away. This has a long history.Aug 09 21:57
schestowitzYou mentioned old media, which indeed cannot be trusted anymore ('trust' is sort of subjective). Microsoft tries to capture 'new media' too. I previously wrote a lot about what Gates and Microsoft did to (and with) bloggers, having realised the influence swing. It's easy to control and fight against rebellion or disdain by washing the minds... not by 'repairing' them later. It's perception shaping and peer pressure.Aug 09 21:57
schestowitzThose who stray get pressured. It's the same with politics. And now Microsoft is deep in education too... teaching kids, even here in the UK, about imaginary property. It's in Microsoft's SEC filing (from April, IIRC). They also use bloggers like Om Malik for AstroTurfing. It's brutal. You can't trust blogs now. One reader mailed me something about LinuxHater. He's convinced that it's a paid troll and  maybe I'll write about it manAug 09 21:58
schestowitzana.Aug 09 21:58
schestowitz 09 22:01
schestowitzThat's just one example. "The FAQ and Primer for COLA will no longer be published.  I do not want my family endangered, so the document is being withdrawn the project is being canceled and my other pro-Linux projects and efforts are also being canceled. " I know of one OS/2 advocate who received death threats.Aug 09 22:02
twitterLinux Hater.  Slashdot ran a promotion of that  and the comments were mostly sanitized.  That almost made me angry.Aug 09 22:02
schestowitzYes, I will write about it tomorrow, I think. I'm talking about it via E-mail. Linux Today and Allison fed the lad.Aug 09 22:03
schestowitzAlthough I'm told there may be a groiup behind that blog, not one person.Aug 09 22:04
vole2Roy, Do not give up! BN has been my primary info gathering site. Currently working at a company which wants to do away with my CentOS installs this is the gathering place for info that I can count on to fight back.Aug 09 22:04
schestowitzThanks. Well, I just got this interesting mail a few minutes ago: "I haven't read any of these the summaries are interesting though. " Anyone read it? I wonder about the  "Guarding". Anyone got links? Anything about guarding?Aug 09 22:06
twitterNo links turned up for me on Bill Gates body guard, but I have not searched very hard.Aug 09 22:07
schestowitz"body guard"? I thought it was about peer influence and 'backing' (as in offering 'protection'). The pet charities serve as a convenient sepotism route to many.Aug 09 22:08
schestowitz*nepotismAug 09 22:09
schestowitzEarlier today: 09 22:10
twitterFound this which is related and will keep digging.  I remember being angry at tax dollars being spent to protect Bill Gates.Aug 09 22:12
schestowitzThere's worse stuff than this, re: tax 09 22:15
twitter:)Aug 09 22:20
schestowitzBlech. Someone has just posted under my name... Faker. Because of that junk I need to use PGP, but they then fake signatures and reply on people not actually validating with the public key. They also forge headers perfectly and then link to their own 'plants'.Aug 09 22:21
schestowitzThey post junk under my name and then flood many USENET newsgroups with pointers to that junk they planted, e.g. here: 09 22:22
schestowitzOops. This: (libel, of course)Aug 09 22:23
twitternastyAug 09 22:26
schestowitzIt's even worse when my grandpa asks me about it on the phone.Aug 09 22:27
twitterno one in my family ever runs into my stuff.  How does your gradfather do that?Aug 09 22:28
twitterDo they email him?Aug 09 22:28
schestowitzNo, but they flood the Web with it. For example: 09 22:29
schestowitzThey did E-mail lots of people at the University, including the dean. They try to get people fired that way. Old tricks, which is why it's better to keep private life off the record (to the extent possible).Aug 09 22:30
twitterWow, makes me glad I'm twitter!Aug 09 22:30
schestowitzThey could expose you too.Aug 09 22:30
schestowitzUse Tor/SSH. I use SSH to reroute my messages now. Been like this for 2 years.Aug 09 22:31
twitterThey expose me frequently, but it makes them look like the goons they are and that's hard to pass on to a Dean.Aug 09 22:31
schestowitzThe Munchkins expose and depose everyone if they feel threatened. The problem is that my home and work address have been out for many years, so it can't be retracted now.Aug 09 22:33
twitterYou also have an unusual name.  My name is so common that it is next to impossible for them to spam Google or any other search engine with bad stuff about me.Aug 09 22:34
twitterThe downside is that good stuff about me is hard to find too but seeing what they did to you, there's no difference.Aug 09 22:35
schestowitzYes, that's true, but that's why they also post home addresses and phone numbers/employers/role of people they expose.Aug 09 22:35
schestowitzThey send stuff like this via zombies, then threaten: 09 22:37
twitterHow about death threats?  The most blatant I've gotten was a troll telling me it would be cheaper to hire a hit man than it would be to troll me.  This has been followed by several others asking someone to pleas fix the fact that I was alive.  Recently, they have reflected current news stories to suggest that I'm deranged and will murder myself and my family.  Nice, eh?Aug 09 22:49
schestowitzOh yeah... they like using the Reiser story to describe some illness that inflicts all.Aug 09 22:50
schestowitz ""Ideally, use of the competing technology becomes associated with mental deficiency, as in, "he believes in Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, and OS/2." Just keep rubbing it in, via the press, analysts, newsgroups, whatever. Make the complete failure of the competition's technology part of the mythology of the computer industry. We want to place selection pressure on those companies and indivAug 09 22:51
schestowitziduals that show a genetic weakness for competitors' technologies, to make the industry increasingly resistant to such unhealthy strains, over time.""Aug 09 22:51
schestowitzSome guy who threatened me physically got nuked from Digg. Well, another stalker there lost like 3--4 accounts there (can't recall how much) after pretending to be me, libeling, harassing, etc. And that's just Digg. Chaos now... he is back and harassed me there yesterday with libel (comments).Aug 09 22:52
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