| schestowitz | Try to find out if he's a Noveller maybe. | Aug 22 19:11 |
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| schestowitz | Or if he uses Ubuntu on his main PC, if at all. | Aug 22 19:12 |
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| neighborlee | maybe later, atm im a tad behind on a few chores haha | Aug 22 19:12 |
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| neighborlee | hav e fun take care, lee out and out o_0 | Aug 22 19:12 |
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| schestowitz | Novell employees leave comments without disclosure: http://talkback.zdnet.com/5208-10... | Aug 22 19:26 |
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| schestowitz | That's the guy: http://www.novell.com/offices/ameri... | Aug 22 19:27 |
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| schestowitz | Dana criticises Novell (he also uses my image) and the Novell comes to knock him down. | Aug 22 19:27 |
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| *PeterKraus has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) | Aug 22 19:28 |
| schestowitz | 'When Sabre began to move from proprietary systems, the company evaluated other open source operating systems including Novell's SUSE Linux Enterprise but concluded that Novell was not as "mature" or respected as it is today and decided Red Hat was a more "proven" option, he said.' | Aug 22 19:41 |
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| schestowitz | http://searchenterpriselinux.techtarget.com/new... | Aug 22 19:41 |
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| *benJIman lols at http://www.itwire.com/content/view/20193/53/ | Aug 22 20:03 |
| trmanco | schestowitz: did you get my trackback? | Aug 22 20:10 |
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| schestowitz | Latest one I got from: http://ovigia.wordpress.com/ | Aug 22 20:12 |
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| trmanco | :| | Aug 22 20:12 |
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| schestowitz | BN doesn't display trackbacks, so I use Technorati | Aug 22 20:12 |
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| schestowitz | What's the URL? | Aug 22 20:12 |
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| trmanco | o know that blog too | Aug 22 20:12 |
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| trmanco | 1sec | Aug 22 20:12 |
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| trmanco | I have technorati too | Aug 22 20:12 |
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| trmanco | http://open-mania.com/2008/08/22/gu... | Aug 22 20:13 |
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| schestowitz | :-) | Aug 22 20:14 |
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| schestowitz | Good image! | Aug 22 20:14 |
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| trmanco | what do you mean? | Aug 22 20:14 |
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| schestowitz | http://translate.google.com/transla... | Aug 22 20:14 |
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| schestowitz | Later on I have at least 5 posts to do. Still catching up with some details about this ugly deal. Novell is a bad company. Bad, bad, bad. It just manipulates the news. | Aug 22 20:15 |
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| trmanco | if you are referring to the images, I just borrowed them from you :P | Aug 22 20:15 |
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| schestowitz | Yes, I know. | Aug 22 20:16 |
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| schestowitz | That's OK. | Aug 22 20:16 |
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| *mib_noh8t9 has quit (Client Quit) | Aug 22 20:16 |
| schestowitz | All GPLed anyway | Aug 22 20:16 |
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| trmanco | yes, I might start posting some more articles on my blog based on they articles you publish :P | Aug 22 20:16 |
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| trmanco | gimped? | Aug 22 20:16 |
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| schestowitz | Please do. | Aug 22 20:16 |
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| schestowitz | If they are translation, that's excellent. | Aug 22 20:16 |
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| trmanco | almost translation | Aug 22 20:17 |
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| schestowitz | BoycottNovell will have served about 25,000 pages today. | Aug 22 20:17 |
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| trmanco | cool | Aug 22 20:17 |
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| schestowitz | It's just weird that very people leave comments. | Aug 22 20:17 |
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| trmanco | maybe my near 200 feed readers will visit BN :P | Aug 22 20:17 |
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| schestowitz | Thanks. | Aug 22 20:18 |
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| trmanco | no problem, good content is suppose to stand out :) | Aug 22 20:19 |
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| neighborlee | schestowitz, do you remember,,did we discover that mono isn't in the 'installed version of livecd, not just the running livecd environement ?? | Aug 22 20:19 |
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| schestowitz | That's not necessarily how it goes. | Aug 22 20:19 |
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| neighborlee | yes, im back momentarily LOL | Aug 22 20:19 |
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| schestowitz | We're lucky to have loyal readers. At the start we had just hundreds. | Aug 22 20:20 |
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| Johnny_Utah | I just wanted to say thanks for the site. | Aug 22 20:20 |
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| Johnny_Utah | It's great to see somebody exposing this crap. I hit your site religiously | Aug 22 20:20 |
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| schestowitz | Hey, Johnny_Utah, thanks! | Aug 22 20:20 |
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| Johnny_Utah | and promote it whenever I can | Aug 22 20:20 |
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| schestowitz | I'll post much more tonight. | Aug 22 20:20 |
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| neighborlee | schestowitz, seems to me a user commented on one of your articles, that installed version also has mono gone..cause I know for sure when looking through packagekit in 10, that no mono is checked anywhere so I see no reason installed version would contain itr | Aug 22 20:20 |
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| schestowitz | I found out some dirt about Novell+Microsoft. more evidence of the anti-Red Hat gangup. | Aug 22 20:21 |
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| neighborlee | Johnny_Utah, well..most of us with common sense, understand that deals made with M$ rarely come out 'clean' LOL | Aug 22 20:21 |
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| neighborlee | Johnny_Utah, its not like they love linux,,they see it as a cancer. | Aug 22 20:21 |
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| schestowitz | neighborlee: there's heaps of lies in the press. | Aug 22 20:21 |
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| schestowitz | When I say lies I mean PR. | Aug 22 20:21 |
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| schestowitz | Watch this new one: | Aug 22 20:21 |
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| neighborlee | hm | Aug 22 20:21 |
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| schestowitz | http://talkback.zdnet.com/5208-... | Aug 22 20:22 |
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| schestowitz | "Paula Rooney, you really don't believe these MS talking points, do you?" | Aug 22 20:22 |
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| Johnny_Utah | Agreed. I can't believe what I see Novell and Miguel De Icanza doing. | Aug 22 20:22 |
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| schestowitz | "I say, good job at parroting Microsoft's email, sugar-coating this alliance that is going nowhere with either Linux or Windows users. Businesses are not looking to buy into Novell's Microsoft licensing backdoors either." | Aug 22 20:22 |
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| schestowitz | Etc etc. | Aug 22 20:22 |
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| neighborlee | makes sense | Aug 22 20:22 |
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| neighborlee | I doubt many would.. | Aug 22 20:22 |
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| schestowitz | Novell and Microsoft (PR) shower journos and devs with E-mail to manufacture consent. | Aug 22 20:23 |
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| neighborlee | vista didn't work, nor has their precious xbox360..so whats left for them LOL | Aug 22 20:23 |
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| neighborlee | wii wules | Aug 22 20:23 |
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| neighborlee | ha-ha | Aug 22 20:23 |
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| schestowitz | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manuf... | Aug 22 20:23 |
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| schestowitz | Read it. | Aug 22 20:23 |
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| schestowitz | http://www.groklaw.net/pdf... | Aug 22 20:23 |
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| schestowitz | ">Diversionary tactics, holding action, and retreats may each seem contrary to the achievement of the overall objective when considered solely in their own terms, but taken in light of the overall conflict, may contribute to overall success." | Aug 22 20:24 |
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| schestowitz | Says Microsoft: ""A computer on every desk and in every home, running Microsoft software." This is the mission statement of Microsoft itself; it is the definition of the conditions under which Microsoft itself can declare overall victory." | Aug 22 20:24 |
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| neighborlee | ah yes lol | Aug 22 20:25 |
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| schestowitz | I was going to ask more journos if Novell spammed them too. | Aug 22 20:26 |
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| schestowitz | They showed them with brainwash before they make the announcement. In the case of iTWire, they also make article requests (Microsoft anyway) | Aug 22 20:26 |
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| jose | roy, just read the manufacturing consent article.. I think things will be fine as long as the Internet stays fairly free... | Aug 22 20:27 |
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| jose | hi, btw | Aug 22 20:27 |
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| schestowitz | Here's is another company that Microsoft has killed atter a Novell-like deal: http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news... (from Corel Linux to .NET) | Aug 22 20:27 |
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| schestowitz | Hi, jose | Aug 22 20:28 |
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| neighborlee | http://www.albion.com/micros... < lol | Aug 22 20:29 |
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| Johnny_Utah | I have a question | Aug 22 20:29 |
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| neighborlee | as if .net was any accident,,and mono just attempts to further its cause :) | Aug 22 20:30 |
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| Johnny_Utah | Since Miguel de Icaza has turned out to be a complete traitor... | Aug 22 20:30 |
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| Johnny_Utah | and Gnome is infected by mono.... | Aug 22 20:30 |
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| Johnny_Utah | do you guys think that KDE will start being the default DE on more distros? | Aug 22 20:30 |
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| neighborlee | not until qt license changes | Aug 22 20:30 |
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| neighborlee | faik anyway | Aug 22 20:31 |
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| schestowitz | Johnny_Utah: not quite. | Aug 22 20:31 |
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| schestowitz | I think KDE's problem is to do with a revolutionary step, which is fine long-term, but they still need that 4.2 and 4.3 | Aug 22 20:31 |
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| schestowitz | neighborlee: no, the licences are not an issue anymore. You're kicking a dead horse. | Aug 22 20:32 |
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| Johnny_Utah | Right, i was think a little ways down the line when 4.2 comes out. | Aug 22 20:32 |
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| schestowitz | KDE has its own problems also because Novell hired more KDE developers and Richard Dale is adding Mono hooks at the moment. | Aug 22 20:32 |
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| jose | i'd like to think that the lesser known distros will keep growing and become good enough for most | Aug 22 20:32 |
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| schestowitz | He hasn't done so recently, but I'm not sure why. I can't find any relationship between him and Novell. | Aug 22 20:33 |
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| neighborlee | schestowitz, but I thought that was why gtk was created in the first place. | Aug 22 20:33 |
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| jose | sorry, correction .. the lesser known wm (not distros) | Aug 22 20:33 |
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| neighborlee | schestowitz, its still not lgpl, like gtk | Aug 22 20:33 |
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| neighborlee | or has something changed im not aware of | Aug 22 20:33 |
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| schestowitz | There was only this sarcastic thing I found: http://dot.kde.org/1080785038/ | Aug 22 20:33 |
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| schestowitz | neighborlee: that has changed since. | Aug 22 20:33 |
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| neighborlee | so your saying, qt license is as free now as gtk ?..lgpl ? | Aug 22 20:34 |
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| schestowitz | They are on equal footing now, pretty much. | Aug 22 20:34 |
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| neighborlee | I thought qt still wasn't free for comercial use | Aug 22 20:34 |
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| schestowitz | IANAL, but they could fork Qt if Nokia makes them unhappy. | Aug 22 20:34 |
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| neighborlee | hm | Aug 22 20:35 |
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| jose | i'd think there would be support in many projects to make sure there are branches that are (eg) free of mono. a movement towards distributed version control would ensure many such branches existed. at that point, there is no one central authority but rather you follow the (eg) git branches of developers you trust. | Aug 22 20:36 |
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| neighborlee | sounds good to me | Aug 22 20:37 |
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| Johnny_Utah | Take care guys. Also, check out our new forum if you're a Kubuntu user.... | Aug 22 20:37 |
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| Johnny_Utah | http://kubuntuway.net | Aug 22 20:38 |
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| schestowitz | See you, Johnny_Utah | Aug 22 20:39 |
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| schestowitz | I told a friend about Mono booster in Ubuntu Forums. He writes: ""Interesting. Wikipedia's another place where MSFTers grind away at knowledge and substitute the party line in its place. Looking at the problems MSFTers cause even after leaving the nest, I have to raise my question again about what place there is for them in society."" | Aug 22 20:43 |
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| benJIman | neighborlee: Qt is still GPLed, GTK is lgpled. | Aug 22 20:47 |
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| neighborlee | yup I know ;) | Aug 22 20:48 |
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| neighborlee | I checkefd only a few days ago :)heh | Aug 22 20:48 |
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| schestowitz | Back to Motif :-) | Aug 22 20:48 |
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| neighborlee | and trust me when I say, I dont flame on this issue..to me its a matter of foss, nothng more or less. | Aug 22 20:48 |
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| benJIman | And GPL is not free? | Aug 22 20:48 |
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| neighborlee | nopew | Aug 22 20:49 |
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| neighborlee | not as much as lgpl is | Aug 22 20:49 |
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| benJIman | That depends on your definition of free. | Aug 22 20:49 |
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| schestowitz | benJIman: which DE are you on if not several? | Aug 22 20:49 |
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| neighborlee | or as much as bsd is | Aug 22 20:49 |
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| benJIman | schestowitz: KDE 3.5.x | Aug 22 20:49 |
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| schestowitz | Same here | Aug 22 20:49 |
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| neighborlee | benJIman, yes it does, and mine equates to preferring gtk | Aug 22 20:49 |
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| schestowitz | Qt has perception issues. | Aug 22 20:49 |
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| neighborlee | not that I dont admire kde alot | Aug 22 20:49 |
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| neighborlee | cause I do. | Aug 22 20:50 |
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| jose | neighborlee: i'm free to kill you but should that be encouraged.. pure freedom is not the best. gpl has great feedback mechanism. | Aug 22 20:52 |
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| schestowitz | Shuttleowrth pondered Qt-based GNOME. Or so people claim... | Aug 22 20:52 |
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| neighborlee | see, according yet again, to this url: http://www.internetnews.com/dev-news/ar... < we see it m entins that under novel-M$ deal, that mono is covered for patent protection...so how can anyone claim its a safe technlogy is beyond me | Aug 22 20:52 |
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| schestowitz | Has Shuttleworth even programmed much? | Aug 22 20:52 |
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| neighborlee | jose, your logic escapes me sorry ;) | Aug 22 20:53 |
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| jose | bsd is inferior to gpl.. | Aug 22 20:53 |
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| neighborlee | jose, to me , freedom is that just.freedom to use xyz no matter what your income level is | Aug 22 20:53 |
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| jose | you seemed to be implying that bsd is more free.. hence better | Aug 22 20:53 |
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| neighborlee | its more liberal, if that is what you mean | Aug 22 20:53 |
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| benJIman | neighborlee: Safe for most of the world. | Aug 22 20:53 |
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| neighborlee | jose, never said better | Aug 22 20:54 |
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| jose | whatever, gpl and bsd are both $0 but gpl has protections against abuse against the community.. to ensure $0 for the most people going into the future | Aug 22 20:54 |
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| neighborlee | I dont think I did,,if Idid I never meant to imply it | Aug 22 20:54 |
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| benJIman | jose: GPL does not do anything of the kind. | Aug 22 20:54 |
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| benJIman | jose: You can charge as much as you like for GPLed software. | Aug 22 20:54 |
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| jose | sorry, i misread. | Aug 22 20:54 |
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| jose | yes you can.. including $0 | Aug 22 20:55 |
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| benJIman | It doesn't guarantee that the software will be available to you for zero cost. | Aug 22 20:55 |
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| schestowitz | GPL says nothing about cost. | Aug 22 20:56 |
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| schestowitz | Watch the licence. | Aug 22 20:56 |
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| neighborlee | gplv3 is the ace , to safeguard against anymore novel/M$ pacts ;) | Aug 22 20:56 |
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| neighborlee | from what I read anyway | Aug 22 20:57 |
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| jose | benJIman: I don't follow. GPL is guaranteed to be $0 as long as a single person with the source is willing to put it online. In any case, I was being approximate since the bsd has no further affinity for $0 than gpl | Aug 22 20:57 |
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| benJIman | jose: Someone with the source being willing to publish it may not be as likely as you think. Especially if it requires effort to remove trademark and other encumberments. | Aug 22 20:59 |
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| jose | sorry for the fireworks. We probably all mostly agree. I don't know you guys and misread neighborlee's "bsd is more free" comment. | Aug 22 20:59 |
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| schestowitz | jose: you could sell GPLed software as binary, but you must make the source available, so the buyer (or anyone) can pull a CentOS and make many copies. | Aug 22 20:59 |
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| neighborlee | jose, dont worry be happy heheh | Aug 22 20:59 |
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| neighborlee | jose, debate is np, its when we hurl attacks that it degrades into flames ...no harm no fault here you've been just fine ;) | Aug 22 21:00 |
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| jose | I agree, really, and I wasn't interested in debating if we mostly agreed. My fault. Forgiven.. thanx :-P | Aug 22 21:01 |
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| jose | I agree with all of you. | Aug 22 21:01 |
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| schestowitz | Watch 5 Microsoft partners ganging up: http://www.varindia.com/searchdetails_titl... | Aug 22 21:02 |
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| schestowitz | Intel, SAP, Novell, Wipro, Microsoft. | Aug 22 21:02 |
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| schestowitz | (make that 4, a group of 5) | Aug 22 21:02 |
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| schestowitz | Novell is like their bast*rd baby that was born with Linux. | Aug 22 21:03 |
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| schestowitz | They use it to ensure the likes of Red Hat cannot gain and therefore perish. That's their hope anyway. Ellison should fight this. | Aug 22 21:03 |
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| neighborlee | woah | Aug 22 21:06 |
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| benJIman | jose: It sounds like you misunderstand the word free. | Aug 22 21:06 |
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| jose | $0 or freedom? | Aug 22 21:06 |
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| jose | seriously, I think i do understand and so do you | Aug 22 21:06 |
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| jose | i was being imprecise.. | Aug 22 21:07 |
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| jose | also the assumption was that gpl code was $0 at time T | Aug 22 21:07 |
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| jose | that was implied when one says "remain free" | Aug 22 21:07 |
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| jose | as in $0 | Aug 22 21:07 |
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| benJIman | Most definitions of free are related to freedom http://www.answers.com/free&r=67 | Aug 22 21:07 |
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| jose | if you guys meant freedom at any point in time, i didn't pick that up. | Aug 22 21:07 |
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| jose | except initially .. | Aug 22 21:08 |
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| jose | this is getting confusing | Aug 22 21:08 |
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| jose | ask me a question if you want to test ..so we can end this | Aug 22 21:08 |
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| jose | libervisco.. i am getting the 3rd degree on free/freedom/$0 because i was sloppy on this irc thingy | Aug 22 21:09 |
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| jose | (jose from freedomware gamefest) | Aug 22 21:09 |
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| libervisco | Hi jose, what do you mean? | Aug 22 21:09 |
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| *schestowitz remembers the gamefest | Aug 22 21:09 |
| jose | benJIman: ask me a question if you want.. else accept that I am koshur | Aug 22 21:09 |
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| jose | I think i have confused people here over whether i have a basic grasp of the gpl because of sloppiness in a brief discussion on freedom/price.. i joined not long ago so maybe i jumped in the conversation when I shouldn't have.. anyway benJIman might ask me something | Aug 22 21:11 |
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| libervisco | oh | Aug 22 21:11 |
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| libervisco | hehe | Aug 22 21:11 |
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| jose | ..as i think he(?) believes i'm mixing $0 with freedom wrt the gpl | Aug 22 21:11 |
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| schestowitz | The term "Free software" is problematic in English. | Aug 22 21:15 |
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| schestowitz | Nobody highlighted this problem more than libervisco , at least recently. Even if you know Free (libre) software, it's hard not to think of cost, esp. since most libre software is also gratis these days. | Aug 22 21:16 |
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| jose | "freedomware" (you've heard this from libervisco or maybe others I imagine) has struck a cord with some, but i haven't heard it used in any other blogs or articles besides a very limited number of them. | Aug 22 21:18 |
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| trmanco | http://news.cnet.com/8301-13505_3-1002... | Aug 22 21:20 |
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| jose | Ultimately "free" may work out in English but the education happens in bits so it seems neverending.. if we started putting in $1 million in The Enquierer ads.. we'd progress faster. | Aug 22 21:20 |
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| libervisco | well there hasn't been any real campaign behind "freedomware" yet... GLM is yet to build a getfreedomware.org site.. | Aug 22 21:21 |
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| jose | roy posted this http://www.varindia.com/searchdetails_title.a... .. | Aug 22 21:22 |
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| libervisco | which is gonna be similar to what it redirects to now, only changing terms to "freedomware" from "free software" :) | Aug 22 21:22 |
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| jose | recently... (schestowitz .. not "roy") | Aug 22 21:23 |
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| trmanco | http://lwn.net/Articles/294542/ | Aug 22 21:23 |
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| seller_liar | The great problem is bsd's focus | Aug 22 21:32 |
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| seller_liar | Look ,netbsd have only one distro | Aug 22 21:32 |
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| seller_liar | jibbed | Aug 22 21:32 |
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| seller_liar | jibbed only works in live | Aug 22 21:33 |
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| seller_liar | why netbsd does not change the focus? | Aug 22 21:33 |
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| seller_liar | the world have more problems than interoperability | Aug 22 21:33 |
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| schestowitz | Red Hat Fedora servers compromised: http://blog.internetnews.com/skerner/200... | Aug 22 21:33 |
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| schestowitz | After the Debian/openssl thing, it's a real shame. | Aug 22 21:34 |
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| schestowitz | It's not as though Microsoft wasn't hacked recently. It does as well. | Aug 22 21:34 |
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| seller_liar | I was thinking.... | Aug 22 21:41 |
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| seller_liar | why people believe in good will .................. | Aug 22 21:42 |
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| seller_liar | like novell "helping" LF | Aug 22 21:42 |
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| schestowitz | Novell invests in LF | Aug 22 21:42 |
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| seller_liar | yes | Aug 22 21:42 |
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| seller_liar | INVESTS | Aug 22 21:42 |
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| schestowitz | Then come self-glorifying articles like this one: http://www.internetnews.com/dev-ne... | Aug 22 21:43 |
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| schestowitz | But LF is business-oriented. It's not the FSF. | Aug 22 21:43 |
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| seller_liar | people use the "good will" argument for defend companies like novell | Aug 22 21:43 |
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| seller_liar | "Dont speak badly about novell "! | Aug 22 21:44 |
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| seller_liar | stupid! | Aug 22 21:44 |
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| seller_liar | There are a way to these occurrences not happen anymore? | Aug 22 21:45 |
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| schestowitz | Novell is a bad company, but just like Microsoft, it can buy its way to fooling the masses. | Aug 22 21:45 |
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| seller_liar | yes | Aug 22 21:46 |
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| schestowitz | They also play punish and apologise. Or flowers and violence. There are many examples of this, even OLPC. | Aug 22 21:46 |
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| seller_liar | black or white? | Aug 22 21:46 |
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| seller_liar | for example | Aug 22 21:46 |
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| seller_liar | let imagine the LF does not support any company | Aug 22 21:47 |
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| seller_liar | What imagine LF without companies support | Aug 22 21:47 |
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| seller_liar | what way LF can go? | Aug 22 21:48 |
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| seller_liar | Yes ! | Aug 22 21:48 |
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| seller_liar | LF does not need companies | Aug 22 21:48 |
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| schestowitz | LF id an umbrella. | Aug 22 21:48 |
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| schestowitz | It's like a front for vendors and users of GNU/Linux, but it only funds the kernel really. | Aug 22 21:49 |
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| jose | the arti on the compromises is short on detail because analysis is still ongoing. | Aug 22 21:50 |
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| schestowitz | jose: yes, I first saw this like 3 days ago. Still no conclusions. Could be _an inside job_ too, so it's too early to blame the system. | Aug 22 21:51 |
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| seller_liar | desktop users uses a little part of linux | Aug 22 21:54 |
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| jose | wrt the ubuntu/canonical link posted by trmanco, i think/guess part of the prob might be the feeling that canonical came in and bought off devs, essentially replacing work that was being done towards the greater community to be kept to a larger degree in the hands on a small group. | Aug 22 21:55 |
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| schestowitz | Debian. | Aug 22 21:55 |
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| jose | that's my perception but i know little more than what makes headlines. | Aug 22 21:55 |
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| jose | debian? | Aug 22 21:56 |
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| schestowitz | Well, Shuttleworth grabbed some Debian developers and paid them. | Aug 22 21:56 |
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| jose | yes | Aug 22 21:56 |
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| schestowitz | He said he would have gone with RPM-based and the choice was almost arbitrary. | Aug 22 21:56 |
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| schestowitz | I don't attack Ubuntu personally. | Aug 22 21:57 |
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| schestowitz | What sometimes bothers me is the blindness the "Ubuntu" brand led to. It makes people afraid of trying anything but Ubuntu. | Aug 22 21:57 |
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| seller_liar | little people uses infrared, realtime clock and superb hardware | Aug 22 21:57 |
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| seller_liar | some day i will do a fork from minix | Aug 22 21:58 |
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| seller_liar | only for desktop , x86 and x64 | Aug 22 21:58 |
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| schestowitz | Can you? Is it BSD? | Aug 22 21:58 |
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| seller_liar | yes | Aug 22 21:58 |
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| schestowitz | -licensed. | Aug 22 21:58 |
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| seller_liar | yes! bsd license | Aug 22 21:58 |
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| jose | the article mentioned the dev side a bit but yes the "ubuntu this ubuntu that".. replacing "Linux" with "Ubuntu" before many. | Aug 22 21:58 |
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| seller_liar | haha ,someday , in late 2009 or 2010 | Aug 22 21:58 |
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| jose | anyone with money can do that as long as devs are willing to accept the money. if you spend the money, you likely want something. | Aug 22 21:59 |
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| seller_liar | or time | Aug 22 21:59 |
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| seller_liar | times = money | Aug 22 21:59 |
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| schestowitz | Journalists often judge GNU/Linux by Ubuntu and also assume it's just a desktop O/S with that brow GNOME UI | Aug 22 21:59 |
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| schestowitz | *brown | Aug 22 21:59 |
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| seller_liar | I know ,but is better than judge GNU Linux by Opensuse | Aug 22 21:59 |
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| jose | what bothers me is people wanting to standardize.. eg. on ubuntu | Aug 22 22:00 |
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| seller_liar | we are killing our enemies one -by one | Aug 22 22:00 |
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| jose | across the community | Aug 22 22:00 |
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| seller_liar | novell comes first | Aug 22 22:00 |
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| jose | diversity is insurance against microsoft and others dealmaking | Aug 22 22:01 |
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| schestowitz | Yup. | Aug 22 22:01 |
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| seller_liar | you know , homegeneous population, one virus kill everything | Aug 22 22:01 |
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| schestowitz | OpenSUSE developers should take their code already and run out of Novell. | Aug 22 22:01 |
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| jose | all eggs in one basket works against us.. for this reason and some other little bits i sometimes wonder about shuttleworth's goals | Aug 22 22:01 |
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| seller_liar | schestowitz: yes roy , but money is very good for them | Aug 22 22:02 |
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| seller_liar | schestowitz: sad,but true | Aug 22 22:02 |
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| jose | yes, as insurance against malware and against any family of defect we also should encourage a healthy amount of accesory wheels to go with the main wheel | Aug 22 22:02 |
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| seller_liar | jose: look at gentoo | Aug 22 22:02 |
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| jose | i can't support opensuse at all if the copyrights are going to novell. i imagine that is the case or atleast that there are deals in place to assure access. | Aug 22 22:03 |
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| seller_liar | jose: gentoo is very random enviroment | Aug 22 22:03 |
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| *moparx (n=moparx@pdpc/supporter/base/moparx) has joined #boycottnovell | Aug 22 22:03 |
| schestowitz | Hi, MinceR | Aug 22 22:03 |
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| schestowitz | Oops. | Aug 22 22:03 |
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| schestowitz | moparx (autocomplete). | Aug 22 22:03 |
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| MinceR | :) | Aug 22 22:04 |
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| moparx | :o | Aug 22 22:05 |
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| moparx | hey | Aug 22 22:05 |
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| jose | from what little i know, i can't help but to be somewhat suspicious of the gentoo founder (forgot name) after his return from msft employment. he might be cleaner than a whistle, but doubt lingers. in any case, there is a lot of diversity today.. many eggs in many baskets. | Aug 22 22:05 |
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| jose | seller_liar: last comment and 2 earlier were to you... sorry about that. | Aug 22 22:06 |
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| seller_liar | jose: np | Aug 22 22:06 |
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| seller_liar | jose: but daniel never work for ms . | Aug 22 22:06 |
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| jose | someone did right.. i don't know name | Aug 22 22:06 |
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| jose | the stint lasted only a few months i think | Aug 22 22:07 |
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| seller_liar | jose: ah ,ok , but m$ does not make a brainwashing in daniel | Aug 22 22:07 |
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| jose | i know not too much about gentoo but portage is a worthwhile goal that I think they want to generalize to allow other distros to use.. i believe that would be the heart of gentoo and a good move. | Aug 22 22:07 |
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| jose | i don't worry too much for now because there are so many distro and project options.. | Aug 22 22:08 |
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| seller_liar | www.funtoo.org | Aug 22 22:09 |
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| jose | .. what i worried about would be that daniel taking over code ownership and control would make it easy for microsoft to get a free ride off the backs of volunteers while perhaps daniel gets beaucoup $$$ | Aug 22 22:09 |
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| jose | i do know he gave up significant amount of code ownership at some point i think.. to the gentoo foundation. | Aug 22 22:10 |
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| jose | daniel is working at etrade... | Aug 22 22:10 |
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| seller_liar | etrade , emerge , emake or die | Aug 22 22:11 |
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| seller_liar | jose: interesting..... | Aug 22 22:11 |
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| jose | i wonder what etrade trading sw he has helped build if any. | Aug 22 22:11 |
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| jose | :) | Aug 22 22:11 |
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| seller_liar | jose: well ,i'm using sabayon now | Aug 22 22:13 |
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| schestowitz | Mono, no no? | Aug 22 22:13 |
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| seller_liar | jose: gentoo already installer, but is my seconde choice | Aug 22 22:13 |
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| seller_liar | schestowitz: I need people to create a monono topico in sabayon forums | Aug 22 22:13 |
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| jose | i've never done gentoo .. tasted sabayon for a few minutes though | Aug 22 22:13 |
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| jose | monono :D | Aug 22 22:14 |
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| schestowitz | At a restaurant or a PC? | Aug 22 22:14 |
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| seller_liar | schestowitz: what? | Aug 22 22:14 |
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| seller_liar | schestowitz: I send a email for monono autor, | Aug 22 22:15 |
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| seller_liar | schestowitz: feature requests | Aug 22 22:15 |
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| seller_liar | schestowitz: auto -detect distros and at same time installs zim,pinot and rhythymbox | Aug 22 22:15 |
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| seller_liar | schestowitz: but the autor does not accept | Aug 22 22:16 |
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| seller_liar | schestowitz: "it' s only a hack", the author said me | Aug 22 22:16 |
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| schestowitz | seller_liar: I was referring to "Sabayon". | Aug 22 22:16 |
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| seller_liar | schestowitz: hehe, ok, | Aug 22 22:16 |
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| schestowitz | seller_liar: I think it was "only a joke". I believe this originated in Groklaw. | Aug 22 22:16 |
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| seller_liar | schestowitz: I know , but can be good monono workd in other operating systems | Aug 22 22:17 |
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| seller_liar | schestowitz: sabayon linux needs to know about mono | Aug 22 22:17 |
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| schestowitz | GL should start covering Mono more properly. PJ shies away from it, but we get linked there in the discussion. | Aug 22 22:18 |
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| schestowitz | The longer a distro is glued to Mono, the harder it gets to get rid of it for technical reasons (development ) and habitual ones (users) | Aug 22 22:19 |
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| schestowitz | Then, even if you remove Mono by default, the users run out in the dark looking for it like a drug addict without a doze and with withdrawal symptoms. | Aug 22 22:19 |
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| seller_liar | schestowitz: but it's easy to remove mono, "it's not dependant from gnome" | Aug 22 22:19 |
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| schestowitz | "Must. Get. A. Fix. Of Banshee." [zombie limping astray /] | Aug 22 22:20 |
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| schestowitz | seller_liar: what about people who get hooked on the apps and have data in them? | Aug 22 22:20 |
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| seller_liar | schestowitz: I know ,only tomboy offer problems | Aug 22 22:21 |
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| seller_liar | schestowitz: rthymbox and banshee is not hard to convert | Aug 22 22:21 |
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| jose | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banshee .."usually seen as an omen of death" | Aug 22 22:21 |
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| seller_liar | schestowitz: pinot is more fast than Beagle | Aug 22 22:21 |
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| seller_liar | schestowitz: tracker is more fast than beagle | Aug 22 22:22 |
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| seller_liar | schestowitz: even gtk perl included because zim and libboost because pinot , it' not surpass the big fat mono size | Aug 22 22:23 |
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| schestowitz | jose: prophetic. | Aug 22 22:23 |
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| jose | there's more: "This comb detail is also related to the centuries-old traditional romantic Irish story that, if you ever see a comb lying on the ground in Ireland, you must never pick it up, or the banshees (or mermaids - stories vary), having placed it there to lure unsuspecting humans, will spirit such gullible humans away." | Aug 22 22:23 |
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| schestowitz | seller_liar: still, people don't switch apps without compelling reasons that they cannot refuse to accept. | Aug 22 22:24 |
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| jose | attackers (eg, micrososft) like doing this sort of thing to mark their conquests in anticipation. | Aug 22 22:24 |
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| *schestowitz *LOL* | Aug 22 22:24 |
| seller_liar | schestowitz: x years to addict , y years to remove a addiction | Aug 22 22:24 |
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| schestowitz | http://boycottnovell.com/wp-conten... | Aug 22 22:26 |
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| schestowitz | Don't look directly at the eyes. And the tongue. Yes, the tongue. Beware the tongue. There's s fetish there. | Aug 22 22:26 |
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| seller_liar | judas and demon | Aug 22 22:26 |
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| seller_liar | schestowitz: oh my god , protect me! | Aug 22 22:26 |
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| moparx | run away! | Aug 22 22:26 |
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| moparx | :p | Aug 22 22:26 |
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| jose | schestowitz: i noticed neither of them is casting a shadow.... | Aug 22 22:27 |
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| schestowitz | http://hk.youtube.com/wa... | Aug 22 22:27 |
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| seller_liar | schestowitz: hey roy ,have you get some information about throw egg in demon? | Aug 22 22:28 |
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| schestowitz | Np, it's vinegar you need, I think. | Aug 22 22:28 |
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| seller_liar | schestowitz: hehe | Aug 22 22:28 |
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| schestowitz | And two cups of lizard tall. Rinse in hot water, and serve hat. | Aug 22 22:29 |
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| seller_liar | schestowitz: why ms gives a cake for mozilla foundation? | Aug 22 22:29 |
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| jose | that's their kiss | Aug 22 22:31 |
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| jose | i'm guessing. | Aug 22 22:31 |
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| schestowitz | seller_liar: two letters for you:PR | Aug 22 22:31 |
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| seller_liar | schestowitz: PR? | Aug 22 22:32 |
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| schestowitz | Cake: $100; delivery: $30; PR gain: priceless (maybe -$10,000,000) | Aug 22 22:32 |
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| jose | ms kroes? | Aug 22 22:32 |
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| seller_liar | schestowitz: like mastercard ad? | Aug 22 22:32 |
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| schestowitz | Bear in mind that the IE team broke standards deliberately and Microsoft engaged in criminal activity to derail Netscape (Gecko) | Aug 22 22:32 |
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| schestowitz | I have heaps of E-mails to show this. | Aug 22 22:32 |
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| seller_liar | schestowitz: I know about this | Aug 22 22:33 |
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| schestowitz | Just recently (mind quotes): http://boycottnovell.com/2008/08/21/vma... | Aug 22 22:33 |
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| seller_liar | schestowitz: i'm using virtualbox , no more vmware | Aug 22 22:33 |
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| jose | concerning patent trolls.. the gpl3 can be skirted with the aid of third party patent trolls | Aug 22 22:36 |
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| jose | in mafia land there is not need for the main antagonist to own the patents to get the results of owing. | Aug 22 22:36 |
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| jose | i saw scox as a shot from msft towards ibm to get their attention that they better cooperate | Aug 22 22:37 |
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| schestowitz | Yes, jose, I was about to write about this later. | Aug 22 22:37 |
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| jose | which? | Aug 22 22:37 |
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| schestowitz | I have a bunch of stuff to be used as reference. | Aug 22 22:37 |
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| schestowitz | One portion is about the troll that Gates invests in. | Aug 22 22:38 |
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| schestowitz | I got an E-mail from Glyn Moody this morning. | Aug 22 22:38 |
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| jose | oh, yes, i looked at your title and was reminded of that loophole | Aug 22 22:38 |
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| seller_liar | schestowitz: the m$ guy? | Aug 22 22:38 |
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| schestowitz | There's also a need to mention their lobbying effort on this (from LWN) and some stuff about the PageDown/PageUp patent | Aug 22 22:38 |
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| schestowitz | seller_liar: which MS guy? | Aug 22 22:39 |
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| seller_liar | schestowitz: oh sorry , a mistake | Aug 22 22:39 |
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| schestowitz | seller_liar: Myhrvold? | Aug 22 22:39 |
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| jose | moody is no ms guy unless he studied at the top double agent school | Aug 22 22:39 |
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| seller_liar | schestowitz: forget about it, | Aug 22 22:39 |
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| schestowitz | I never get E-mail from Miccrosofters. I hear they talk about me though. | Aug 22 22:40 |
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| jose | you think? | Aug 22 22:40 |
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| jose | :) | Aug 22 22:40 |
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| schestowitz | I was told this. | Aug 22 22:40 |
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| schestowitz | But only because I expose their corruptions. | Aug 22 22:40 |
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| schestowitz | The Microsoft manager in the east (can't recall what it's called) was worried about the coverage of the OOXML corruptions he was involved in. | Aug 22 22:41 |
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| jose | anyone can be a msfter but I know what you mean... at least officially you've gotten none. | Aug 22 22:41 |
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| schestowitz | I also became aware that they try to take out to lunch and collaborate with their critics. How typical. | Aug 22 22:42 |
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| seller_liar | schestowitz: I was thinking... | Aug 22 22:42 |
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| seller_liar | Adobe reader 9 works in firefox | Aug 22 22:42 |
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| seller_liar | BUT | Aug 22 22:42 |
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| schestowitz | It's a war time technique. Sit down with your enemy, declare his win, pour out some liquor and the next day attack from the mountains. | Aug 22 22:42 |
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| schestowitz | I hope Apache is sober enough. | Aug 22 22:42 |
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| seller_liar | requirements , Internet Exploder | Aug 22 22:43 |
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| schestowitz | You should see this ... (looks for ref) | Aug 22 22:43 |
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| jose | msft won't be a top open source company until 2015 an rep said (i think i got this from boycottnovell but can't remember) | Aug 22 22:43 |
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| schestowitz | http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/bre... | Aug 22 22:44 |
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| jose | what this means is ... rest little boys and girls cause we will strike hard before you know what has happened | Aug 22 22:44 |
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| seller_liar | Someday i did a test ,removing IE using nlite techonologies and then i will install adobe 9 for firefox and booom , it' does not install | Aug 22 22:44 |
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| schestowitz | My message is there too, but there are trolls in this newsgroups, probably those Munchkins Microsoft keeps talking about. | Aug 22 22:44 |
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| schestowitz | Oops! | Aug 22 22:45 |
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| schestowitz | Wait. | Aug 22 22:45 |
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| schestowitz | http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os... | Aug 22 22:45 |
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| schestowitz | Ignore the previous one. Wrong clipboard slot. | Aug 22 22:45 |
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| seller_liar | ok | Aug 22 22:45 |
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| seller_liar | schestowitz:interesting ..... Iwill read | Aug 22 22:46 |
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| seller_liar | I need to go | Aug 22 22:46 |
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| jose | why ignore.. it was interesting. | Aug 22 22:46 |
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| seller_liar | bye guys | Aug 22 22:46 |
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| *seller_liar (n=seller@201-92-132-58.dsl.telesp.net.br) has left #boycottnovell ("Konversation terminated!") | Aug 22 22:47 |
| schestowitz | jose: that site I can't quite trust. | Aug 22 22:47 |
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| schestowitz | I hard that this Oliva guy is just putting there whatever pays the bill. Lots of pro-Microsoft and "Microsoft 'open source'" rubbish there. IBM needed to rebut them... | Aug 22 22:48 |
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| schestowitz | http://techdirt.com/articles/20080821/033453.shtml | Aug 22 23:06 |
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| jose | aristotle got the patent for pg up/down.. it expired. | Aug 22 23:12 |
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| jose | the first commenter says that not all patents have to be earthshattering.. for 17 yr monopoly over the whole of the human race it better be a little more than earthshattering | Aug 22 23:13 |
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| schestowitz | GULP! Just spotted: :Now even though Adobe AIR and Mono version of Microsoft Silverlight is still in Beta stage and are very buggy, still gOS team might consider including them in future release" http://linuxondesktop.blogspot.com/2008/... | Aug 22 23:13 |
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| schestowitz | Moonlight is a Trojan. SFLC confirmed this pretty much. | Aug 22 23:13 |
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| jose | i think all of these companies want like mad to make linux the proprietary alternative to windows/vista | Aug 22 23:15 |
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| jose | keep key items closed/patented/etc and let the foss kids play around improving the code for us | Aug 22 23:16 |
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| jose | ..so let's own all the code so we can close it off. | Aug 22 23:16 |
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| jose | .. hopefully, i am exaggerating | Aug 22 23:16 |
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| schestowitz | http://amarok.kde.org/en/releases/2.0/beta/1 | Aug 22 23:16 |
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| schestowitz | OOps. | Aug 22 23:16 |
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| schestowitz | http://boycottnovell.com/2007/09/10/ker... | Aug 22 23:16 |
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| jose | i worry that even the "good guys" want proprietary system. | Aug 22 23:19 |
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| schestowitz | Some of them | Aug 22 23:19 |
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| schestowitz | I dont; trust Linus all that much to tell you the truth, but he seems to have wisened up since whe whole GPLv3 storm. | Aug 22 23:19 |
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| jose | my worry is that it is more than just some.. hopefully it's misplaced (but healthy) fear/caution | Aug 22 23:19 |
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| schestowitz | To be more specific, he now openly expresses his fears of swpatents and I imagine he begins to understand why Novell is harmful. He should have listened to old Stallman, but he didn't. | Aug 22 23:20 |
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| schestowitz | Fedora update: https://www.redhat.com/archives/f... | Aug 22 23:20 |
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| jose | when you know what you are doing, you can afford this level of caution. | Aug 22 23:23 |
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| schestowitz | Yes, that's why the pres isn't jumping the gun. | Aug 22 23:23 |
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| jose | .. many many would be totally powned yet would say nothing until every effort to suppress the message failed and word got out. | Aug 22 23:23 |
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| schestowitz | A few years ago, our CD Department had someone sneak an AWstats script into /tmp to execute it. | Aug 22 23:24 |
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| jose | many many companies that don't know what they are doing | Aug 22 23:24 |
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| jose | i was just clarifying | Aug 22 23:24 |
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| schestowitz | Damage was unknown but everyone in that domain was alerted that passwords should be reset immediately. | Aug 22 23:24 |
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| schestowitz | There are also lots of weak passwords that may lead to greater success in those brute-force SSH attacks (I had to disable my firewall's warning due to that snooping nuisance). It could make clusters zombies. | Aug 22 23:25 |
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| schestowitz | jose: a recent study showed that tons of intrusion are being hidden, not reported. | Aug 22 23:26 |
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| schestowitz | In that case where 50 million credit card details got stolen, the man who leaked out the news _GOT FIRED_ | Aug 22 23:26 |
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| schestowitz | There's security through obscurity and security through bullying. | Aug 22 23:26 |
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| schestowitz | Another recent example was a military action (almost) against one who hacked some smart cards of which there are like billions or many millions. | Aug 22 23:27 |
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| jose | the guy blaming msware got ridiculed a bit by matt asay and many comments.. he can't excuse self, but all software just aren't created equal. | Aug 22 23:27 |
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| schestowitz | And... of course there are those MIT students. Couldn't have missed the news, could you? Seucirty by gagging. | Aug 22 23:27 |
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| jose | turned out ok... gagger claimed that they misunderstood "hacker" and purpose of defcon, etc.. probably true. Anyway, seems courts made right decision | Aug 22 23:29 |
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| schestowitz | On the bright side, those gagged students got publicitgy. | Aug 22 23:29 |
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| jose | i don't blame people for not being security experts. but it is surprising just how much ignorance there is in places you wouldn't expect | Aug 22 23:29 |
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| schestowitz | Like Dan Kaminsky (?? spelling??) | Aug 22 23:29 |
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| jose | yup | Aug 22 23:30 |
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| schestowitz | Aaron is back to work: http://aseigo.blogspot.com/2008/08/fo... | Aug 22 23:30 |
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| schestowitz | I hope KDE 4.2 is a hit. The distros are phasing out 3.5.x | Aug 22 23:30 |
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| schestowitz | 3.5.10 out within a week or so I imagine.. | Aug 22 23:31 |
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| trmanco | http://practical-tech.com/operating-... | Aug 22 23:40 |
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| schestowitz | Ta. | Aug 22 23:42 |
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| jose | that mere fact that novell and msft need to work together (first paragraph of article) should sound an alarm. | Aug 22 23:42 |
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| jose | why is that so? where does that leave us? you mean the published protocols aren't enough? of course they aren't. | Aug 22 23:43 |
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| jose | in case i am not making sense: i am one of those upset by novell and msft working closely together. that is the key. interop is the key. if you app doesn't interop what's the point.. unless you don't enter that fake "interop" market in the first place and focus on open source/ linux/etc | Aug 22 23:45 |
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| schestowitz | This is an important post for 2 reasons: | Aug 22 23:47 |
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| schestowitz | 1) They also used insiding to impact a journlist's writing by contacting him, which worked initially. They did this with others. | Aug 22 23:47 |
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| schestowitz | 2) Novell kept insisting that it was about interop. Microsoft pitched FUD. | Aug 22 23:48 |
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| schestowitz | Now the new PR guy at Novell (the previous one, Bruce Lowry, quit) is pitching FUD /ALONG/ with Microsoft. | Aug 22 23:48 |
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| schestowitz | Software patents and all. | Aug 22 23:48 |
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| trmanco | schestowitz: http://groups.google.com/group/com... | Aug 22 23:49 |
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| schestowitz | Shame on Novell and I think it's an oopsie that it's new PR director pitched it. They are sneaky and dishonest. They pitched it like this all along, just not in public. | Aug 22 23:49 |
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| schestowitz | Moreover, it's worth adding that I know how they approach businesses because people told me. | Aug 22 23:49 |
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| schestowitz | They are just about as bad as Microsoft. | Aug 22 23:50 |
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| schestowitz | Another thing that happened before is that Microsoft began calling coupons "patent royalties" and Microsoft tried to embellish the name. No more, I guess. | Aug 22 23:50 |
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| schestowitz | trmanco: yes, the Microsoft Munchkins. Paid shills Scott Douglas and Gary Stewart have done smear campaigns for like a decade, using hundreds of fake names. | Aug 22 23:51 |
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| trmanco | wow | Aug 22 23:52 |
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| trmanco | so this means that microsofties are everywhere :| | Aug 22 23:52 |
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| *mib_cpmq31 (i=41251762@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-1a7c8a405e64a8f2) has joined #boycottnovell | Aug 22 23:53 |
| trmanco | even on the *Linux* newsgroups spamming and trolling | Aug 22 23:53 |
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| schestowitz | Same in Digg and Slashdot. It's even the same people in different nym | Aug 22 23:53 |
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| schestowitz | *nymshifts | Aug 22 23:53 |
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| schestowitz | trmanco: it has been like this for over a decade. I'm not a target of theirs. Slime, slime and libel. Lots of slander and lies about me. | Aug 22 23:53 |
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| trmanco | :| | Aug 22 23:54 |
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| jose | so you *are* a target, right? | Aug 22 23:54 |
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| schestowitz | They have even posted messages under my name in some forums, claiming I'm trans gendered. They posted these under my name in many places. | Aug 22 23:54 |
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