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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: September 16-17th, 2008

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schestowitzUpgrade intercepted by lawyers.Sep 15 22:41
AVRS2For those who don't go looking at the paragraphs, they are about privacy policy (with a link, which makes user suffer from the bug) and phishing protection.Sep 15 22:45
AVRS2https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=432798 - thorough (sp?) description of the bugSep 15 22:46
AVRS2But since nobody looks at EULAs, nobody tests them, and it's been accidentally only fixed on non-Linux platforms.Sep 15 22:48
schestowitzMozilla gives a low priority to GNU/Linux. I once saw their list.Sep 15 22:56
AVRS2schestowitz: seen https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=422959 ?Sep 15 22:57
AVRS2https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=422959#c8 point 15 ;)Sep 15 22:59
AVRS2“This is incredibly Linux-centric and shows a basic disrespect for the desires of Mac users in general.”Sep 15 22:59
MinceRthe desires of typical mac users deserve nothing but disrespect anyway.Sep 15 23:01
AVRS2That makes it look like it (is|was at that point) not all that bad… or that which MinceR just saidSep 15 23:01
schestowitz Asa Dotzler  at #19. I don't like him.Sep 15 23:03
schestowitzhttp://boycottnovell.com/2007/10/25/...Sep 15 23:04
AVRS2the last msg in his blog: http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/asa/archives/20...Sep 15 23:04
MinceR(rationale: afaict the desires of typical mac users revolve around themes of 'must be shiny', 'must have shiny apple logo on it', 'must be announced by steve jobs', 'must work exactly like a certain apple product', disregarding any functionality or reason -- not something that's worth working with)Sep 15 23:04
AVRS2In that case, it was "must work like a certain apple product without checking a box".Sep 15 23:06
MinceRyes, that's more accurateSep 15 23:06
MinceRalso, it shouldn't have any checkboxes whatsoeverSep 15 23:06
AVRS2I won't comment on the buttons being good or bad though; never used them (at least don't remember from the day I might have).Sep 15 23:07
AVRS2[in those sizes]Sep 15 23:08
AVRS2AFAIK, Asa Dotzler is more marketing (SpreadFirefox? not sure) than Mozilla.Sep 15 23:11
AVRS2Some said they were using Mac OS X because MoCo bought MacBooks en masse (sp?)…Sep 15 23:13
AVRS2And then there is some expensive proprietary testing suite for Mac…Sep 15 23:14
schestowitzAVRS2: yes, he's marketing, sort of.Sep 15 23:14
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AVRS2Unfortunately I tend to forget to reply to e-mails in threads about licensing I start sometimes… which may be why http://www.tiraecol.net/modules/comic/ is still under an invalid license :( although it would be almost certainly non-free anyway.Sep 15 23:17
MinceRi wonder why would mozilla want to pander to apple fanboysSep 15 23:20
MinceRthey won't use anything but safariSep 15 23:21
AVRS2(cc) and then there are "the Creative Commons license" mentions like in http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=arti...Sep 15 23:25
AVRS2And apparently I haven't fixed the Ecol mention in a Wikipedia list… done nowSep 15 23:25
AVRS2gnSep 15 23:28
MinceRo/Sep 15 23:28
twitterPander?  I'd think the Apple branch of Mozilla is community maintained by Mac users.Sep 16 01:19
schestowitzMozilla developers are Mac users.Sep 16 01:20
twitterSo, how many of those bug reports are M$ Munchkins looking to stink the place up?Sep 16 01:20
twitterDo the Mozilla developers really run OSX?  I've seen people using GCC and friends on OSX.  It was not nearly as easy as apt-getting source.Sep 16 01:22
schestowitzA Microsoft Munchkin sort of got kicked by the ISP/gateway for libeling me today.Sep 16 01:23
schestowitzYes, Mozilla devs use OS X. Many of them do. Some might multi-boot and they use CentOS on the servers.Sep 16 01:24
twitterThe ISP news is good and bad.  It's nice they want to help but bad they would terminate someone's service like that.Sep 16 01:25
schestowitzWell, it wasn't the ISP really. Not yet anyway.Sep 16 01:26
schestowitzSome people sent complaints to the news service from which the Munchkin had posted. Failing that, ISPs can probably be reached. If you saw the nature of the posts, you'd understand.Sep 16 01:27
twitterIt would be nicer if they helped you trace the comments back, so you can sue the person who made them.Sep 16 01:28
schestowitzYes, that too.Sep 16 01:28
schestowitzI think I know the address already. If I pursued it, I could probably put him in jail. He attacked other people in the past under hundreds of nym. It's like a Barkto incident.Sep 16 01:29
twitterYou should pursue it, but you will probably find a zombie at the other end of the line.Sep 16 01:30
schestowitzYes, they use zombies.Sep 16 01:30
schestowitzhttp://groups.google.com/group/com...Sep 16 01:31
twitterIt is a shame that only the bad guys can really keep their anonymity.Sep 16 01:31
schestowitzhttp://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.os2...Sep 16 01:32
schestowitzPJ keeps evidence on MOG, I think.Sep 16 01:33
schestowitzSince we have court evidence showing MOG planting stories for Microsoft, the spying and intimidation could have not just her sued by Microsoft too.Sep 16 01:33
schestowitzI'd love to see PJ taking a break from GL and doing a massive lawsuits against Microsoft and the Shill Mill. It could expose the whole operation, have it blast in the media, and lead to many more lawsuits from those who got injured.Sep 16 01:37
twitterThat would be a great service.  I hope she's got lawyers working on it.Sep 16 01:38
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schestowitzThey're hiring < http://tirania.org/blog/archive/2008/Sep-15.html >. But wait. Get your _Microsoft_ skills ready. What is this, a joke?Sep 16 08:05
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schestowitzFormer Microsoft employee FUDs Apple under a 'Mozilla' hat: Mono team, http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/09/15/...Sep 16 08:18
schestowitz"She held out Microsoft, her former employer, as an example."Sep 16 08:19
schestowitz""We get to hear from Microsoft about the work they put into it and all the people they engaged to do consulting work and their secure development lifecycle." So Mozilla nets Microsoft employees for Microsoft love?Sep 16 08:20
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schestowitzFunny that. SJVN links to us under the statement  "I feel the same way about Novell. While I don't see Novell, as some do, as being Microsoft's lapdog..." ( here: http://blogs.computerworld.com/is... )Sep 16 08:46
schestowitzHa!! This one was predictable. 'EnterpriseBuntu': http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?co...   (and Shuttleworth denied that such a thing would exist, IIRC).Sep 16 08:55
schestowitzI brought it up here < http://boycottnovell.com/2008/06/07/ubuntu... > and then Shuttleworth replied. So he's paying Microsoft indirectly.Sep 16 08:57
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MinceR093258 <@schestowitz> Former Microsoft employee FUDs Apple under a 'Mozilla' hat: Mono team, http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/09/15...Sep 16 09:14
MinceRPot. Kettle. Black. ;)Sep 16 09:14
MinceRhe says apple is closed about securitySep 16 09:14
MinceRas if m$ wasn't :>Sep 16 09:14
MinceRs/he/she/Sep 16 09:14
schestowitzIt's a sheSep 16 09:14
MinceRs/she/it/ ;)Sep 16 09:15
schestowitzpronounced how?Sep 16 09:15
MinceRit was just a correctionSep 16 09:15
schestowitzYeah, I thought about s/h/it.Sep 16 09:16
schestowitzOld joke from USENETSep 16 09:16
schestowitzSo they now have Microsoft 'admirers' or connections inside Mozilla. That said, she criticised Microsoft before, but _ONLY BECAUSE MICROSOFT FUDDED MOZILLA_.Sep 16 09:17
schestowitzHere: http://blog.mozilla.com/security/2007/11/30/cri...Sep 16 09:17
schestowitzThis one id a holy moly: http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5i3... ( HP to cut 24,600 jobs worldwide with EDS acquisition )Sep 16 09:30
MinceRoh.Sep 16 09:52
schestowitzhttp://www.macworld.com/article/135541/2008/09/...Sep 16 09:53
MinceRi didn't get to use usenet for a long while (didn't know any news servers)Sep 16 09:53
MinceRand by the time i could find some, it was already drowned in spamSep 16 09:53
schestowitzThey try to kill USENETSep 16 09:53
MinceRi know, but i think it was mostly spam before they started killing itSep 16 09:54
schestowitzNot everywhere.Sep 16 09:54
schestowitzInteresting: http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?lt...Sep 16 10:14
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EruaranhelloSep 16 13:01
schestowitzHi there. Got any news from Australia?Sep 16 13:01
EruaranNot todaySep 16 13:01
schestowitz:-(Sep 16 13:01
schestowitzJust kidding.Sep 16 13:01
EruaranI heard Adobe is realeasing new stuffSep 16 13:02
schestowitzYour previous stories reached many people's attention (thousands)Sep 16 13:02
Eruaranreally ?Sep 16 13:02
schestowitzYes, the posts are being read.Sep 16 13:02
EruaranWell I hope people are listeningSep 16 13:03
AVRS2That micronation which joined the anti-OOXML petition… is a forumSep 16 13:03
AVRS2Not sure how many people that is, enWikipedia says 20.Sep 16 13:04
schestowitzWhat's the URL?Sep 16 13:05
schestowitzMicrosoft did some AstroTurf (fake grassroots) for OOXML back in 2007.Sep 16 13:06
AVRS2http://boycottnovell.com/2008/09/14/c...Sep 16 13:06
AVRS2The Dominion of British West FloridaSep 16 13:06
AVRS2Its site says to become a citizen (or something) you have to e-mail them or something, or just register at the forum.Sep 16 13:07
schestowitzA forum?Sep 16 13:13
schestowitzIs there a Wikipedia entry about it?Sep 16 13:13
AVRS2https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Do...Sep 16 13:13
EruaranbblSep 16 13:13
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AVRS2It is a nation, but so small that it is currently a website.Sep 16 13:13
schestowitzIf it takes just 20 people, then we could probably create a "BN IRC channel" nation and protest as a nation. :-)Sep 16 13:13
AVRS2Its FAQ has a question "Is it a role-playing game?"Sep 16 13:14
schestowitzIs the site has downtime, what does it mean for the nation?Sep 16 13:14
AVRS2hmmSep 16 13:15
schestowitzThis is bizarre. http://www.dbwf.net/Sep 16 13:15
AVRS2Request Citizenship:Sep 16 13:15
schestowitzSo if they take a bus ride somewhere, they abandon a nation. And shall there be a terrible accident, a country can cease to exist.Sep 16 13:16
AVRS2mailto:baronvonservers@yahoo.com?cc=bo.register @comcast.net&amp;Subject=Application for Citizenship (online) &amp;body=I would like to be a Citizen of British West Florida.  Please add me to your distribution list, and consider me for Appointment to Office.Sep 16 13:16
AVRS2Nah, the nation uses West Florida territory.Sep 16 13:16
schestowitzI bet it would be easy for Microsoft to 'stuff' their ballot on OOXML.Sep 16 13:16
AVRS2It wants to take the territory as independant by doing good to its citizens.Sep 16 13:17
AVRS2Crap, once having learnt to misspell "independent", I cannot unlearn back…Sep 16 13:18
schestowitzWell, that means that Bush can't force them to be recruited for Iraq. Sounds like a deal.Sep 16 13:18
schestowitzIt's a common typo.Sep 16 13:18
AVRS2IIRC, there is some other word which has "-ant", so I thought "independent" was an error.Sep 16 13:18
kentmadependent and dependant have different meanings, hence the confusion.Sep 16 13:19
AVRS2Actually either I've read the site poorly, or it is unclear whether they want complete independency or be a part of UK.Sep 16 13:19
kentmaDependent is frequently spelt as dependant, particularly by yanks...Sep 16 13:20
AVRS2Note: The forms dependant, dependance, dependancy are from the French; the forms dependent, etc., are from the Latin. Some authorities give preference to the form dependant when the word is a noun, thus distinguishing it from the adjective, usually written dependent.”Sep 16 13:21
AVRS2(gcide)Sep 16 13:21
kentmastandard english spelling is to respect the and and ent;  just like respecting ice and ise for noun & verb.  Both of these are frequently mispelt by yanks.Sep 16 13:22
kentmaand non-yanks, but most often yanks.Sep 16 13:22
kentmapractice, for example, is almost always spelt as practise by yanks.Sep 16 13:22
kentmaand licence is almost always spelt as license.Sep 16 13:23
kentmaalso noun & verb.Sep 16 13:23
schestowitzI find myself disoriented by this.Sep 16 13:23
schestowitzIt's better to eliminate the mistake.Sep 16 13:23
kentmafrench, is of course, all derived from latin...Sep 16 13:23
schestowitzNot to accept both.Sep 16 13:23
kentmaspanish will usually break dependent(e) into dependiente, adding an 'i' before the 'e'.Sep 16 13:24
kentmaItalian just does ente.Sep 16 13:24
kentmaschestowitz: I agree.  Incorrect spellings cause all kinds of havoc with short sentences and phrases...Sep 16 13:25
kentmaDriving license = verb - permission to driveSep 16 13:25
schestowitzBut names of places change this.Sep 16 13:25
kentmaDriving licence = noun - a bit of paper :-)Sep 16 13:25
schestowitzNames of places set rock-solid precedence. Bal Harbor for example.Sep 16 13:26
kentmaPlace names are even more confusing, because they often have ancient forms, however, they can typically be recognised by capitalisation, which helps them stand out from the crowd.Sep 16 13:26
AVRS2In Russian, Chinese and Korean names transliterated or transcribed (not sure which) as Huy are almost always euphemized.Sep 16 13:28
AVRS2I've found 6 variants for Cho Seung-HuiSep 16 13:29
MinceRlolSep 16 13:29
kentmaAVRS2: I've seen many of these transliterated, and then the sound of languages changes over time, and a re-transliteration is requiredSep 16 13:29
kentmaThe best known is peking and beijing :-)Sep 16 13:29
MinceRwhy can't they just call them Dick? :>Sep 16 13:29
kentmaTonal languages are hard to do anyway... Mandarin has 4 sounds (not too bad...), Cantonese has *7* sounds :-(Sep 16 13:30
kentmaMinceR: :-)Sep 16 13:30
AVRS2Cho Chun Hoy, Cho Sen Hu, Cho Syn Hi, Cho Syn-hi, Chho Syn Hyy, Cho Chen-Hui (ne Huy)Sep 16 13:30
kentmaAVRS2: arggh!Sep 16 13:30
AVRS2*not Huy; Hy-eeSep 16 13:30
AVRS2cannot transcribe w/o IPA which I don't remember anywaySep 16 13:30
kentmayou need to be a linguist to have IPA on tap, I suspect...Sep 16 13:31
kentmaIs Korean tonal?  I suppose it might beSep 16 13:31
AVRS2Well, it's more useful to use the IPA characters you know and others might know, than Cyrillics if the others don't.Sep 16 13:32
AVRS2*don't know themSep 16 13:32
AVRS2But vowels in IPA are difficult, and they say IPA vowels doesn't work well for Russian.Sep 16 13:32
AVRS2*don'tSep 16 13:32
MinceRi know cyrillics but little IPASep 16 13:33
kentmaThe only cyrillics I know are the ones which are essentially like latin or greek... which isn't many :-)Sep 16 13:33
AVRS2Cho Seung-Hui; Чо Чун Хой; Чо Сен Ху; Чо Сын Хи; Чо Сын-хи; Чхо Сын Хый; Чо Чен-ХуиSep 16 13:33
AVRS2kentma: Бб is b, Вв is v in RussianSep 16 13:34
kentmaAVRS2: yes, I recall.  Also, 'v' is a 'b' in Spanish, by an interesting coincidence.Sep 16 13:34
*AVRS2 goes to seek Spanish pronunciation stuffSep 16 13:35
AVRS2; Anki's short tutorial is not good to use w/o knowing that :]Sep 16 13:35
AVRS2KVirc wtfSep 16 13:36
kentmaAVRS2: it's quite interesting.  There are two flavours, too - one where 'c' is a 'th' and the other where 'c' is a 'ss'Sep 16 13:36
AVRS2not enough to switch back to XChat, but those script-related features in KVirc are annoying. I hope they are actually bugsSep 16 13:36
kentmaI dunno... sorry.  I'm using pidgin hereSep 16 13:36
AVRS2My problems with KVirc: 1. multi-line input is problematic; if I paste something into the single line, the multiline input opens and gets everything but the first line, which stays in the single-line input.Sep 16 13:37
kentmatalking about input - pidgin won't let me re-size the text input window, which is annoying.Sep 16 13:38
AVRS22. it seems impossible to start a message with "/". "//" gives "//".Sep 16 13:38
kentma\/Sep 16 13:38
kentma///Sep 16 13:38
kentma//Sep 16 13:38
AVRS2/ testSep 16 13:38
kentma//testingSep 16 13:38
AVRS2cool, thanks :)Sep 16 13:38
AVRS2Escaping with "\" works.Sep 16 13:38
kentmaaah :-)Sep 16 13:38
kentmasee you chaps later.Sep 16 13:41
AVRS2see youSep 16 13:41
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MinceRAVRS2: i'm sure (1) is a bug, but you may want to check if it's known/reported.Sep 16 13:51
MinceR(or if it's fixed in the developer version already)Sep 16 13:51
MinceRas for the starting message with / thing: /say /... works in multiple clients, in case you don't know how the current client does it.Sep 16 13:52
MinceR(though in kvirc /say probably has the sideeffect of parsing things like ; in the message)Sep 16 13:53
AVRS2testSep 16 13:53
AVRS2/testSep 16 13:54
AVRS2yepSep 16 13:54
AVRS2In XChat, I used "//"Sep 16 13:54
MinceRirssi has "/ "Sep 16 13:54
schestowitz/ testSep 16 13:54
AVRS2IIRC, KVirc's bugs were in KDE?Sep 16 13:55
AVRS2https://bugs.kde.org/ that isSep 16 13:55
schestowitzI wish Kate had a built in in-line spellchecker  KNode has that.Sep 16 13:56
AVRS2hm, no, I'm confusing it with somethingSep 16 13:56
MinceRafaik kvirc is separate from kdeSep 16 13:57
MinceRit can be compiled without kdelibs if you want toSep 16 13:57
AVRS2yes; it also seems kinda poorly integratedSep 16 13:57
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MinceReven then i prefer it to other GUI clientsSep 16 13:57
AVRS2Though Amarok also is, a little.Sep 16 13:57
MinceRespecially to konversation, which includes an option for public awaySep 16 13:58
MinceRpublic away must be killed with fire.Sep 16 13:58
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AVRS2Is that enabling "away" because of inactivity?Sep 16 13:59
*schestowitz looks for fire blanket.Sep 16 13:59
MinceRit's announcing changes in away status on every channel as a messageSep 16 14:04
schestowitzYes, that's the issue.Sep 16 14:05
schestowitzI tried it for one minute. You then shouted :-) (so did someone in #mandriva, but more politely)Sep 16 14:05
MinceR[H]omer still does it from time to time :(Sep 16 14:06
MinceRthe worst is when i share multiple channels with the one using public awaySep 16 14:06
MinceRso i get false activity on multiple channelsSep 16 14:06
AVRS2ohSep 16 14:07
schestowitz[H]omer: please take note.Sep 16 14:07
AVRS2hmm looks like I've forgotten the multiline problem essence: it is not exactly the act of pasting that causes it, but that I switch to the multiline mode while having something in the first line.Sep 16 14:12
AVRS2Then the content of the singleline editor doesn't get moved or posted…Sep 16 14:13
schestowitzOther than Xchat I've only ever used mirc, but that was 12 years ago.Sep 16 14:14
AVRS2XChat has at least one major issue: long messages are split at 512 or so bytes, so Cyrillic text can be split in a middle of character, and become totally unreadable.Sep 16 14:15
AVRS2Not sure what KVirc does; someone told me they had one of my long messages just cut off.Sep 16 14:16
AVRS2But https://svn.kvirc.de/kvirc/ticket/147 says there is such bug in KVirc! going to be fixed by 4.0Sep 16 14:17
AVRS2Anyway, I've had other issues with XChat, like copying working really bad.Sep 16 14:18
AVRS2And when I upgraded to 2.8.2, it had channel and user lists in one column and not side by side.Sep 16 14:19
schestowitzI get some chopped-off message on rare occasions. I have no real basis for comparison though.Sep 16 14:19
AVRS2With 2.8.4, the Debian build had been highlighting almost every message, apparently because the highlighted nickname list format has changed (how?).Sep 16 14:20
AVRS2or it was 2.8.6Sep 16 14:20
schestowitzI'm probably locked in to this app now. :-|Sep 16 14:22
AVRS2I feel locked in to Firefox since I've upgraded to 3.0* trunk.Sep 16 14:25
AVRS2And not just to Firefox, but to the version I am using.Sep 16 14:25
schestowitzPlugins are a pain. Some go deprecated.Sep 16 14:27
AVRS2No extension here has gone deprecated… but they have memory leaks and take a lot of RAM all the time.Sep 16 14:28
AVRS2Though some become incompatible.Sep 16 14:28
schestowitzThe leaks have not been a pain since I upgraded to a stronger dual-core box.Sep 16 14:28
schestowitzThunderbird can be a pig too if you strap lots of stuff onto it.Sep 16 14:29
AVRS2I've tried using Iceweasel recently, and its xulrunner-core or something was hanging often…Sep 16 14:29
AVRS2Unfortunately, Html Validator (Tidy-based) has become incompatible here.Sep 16 14:32
AVRS2Two things possible: edit it, or disable compatibility check.Sep 16 14:32
AVRS2But there are newer compatible versions… windows-onlySep 16 14:33
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AVRS2gnSep 16 23:50
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mahadeva_somebody can helpme i have a novell 3.12 and the partition tables was broken and use test disk for recover the dos particion after that the netware partition desapear and i cant recuper and up my server please helpmeSep 17 03:22
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kentmamornin'Sep 17 07:46
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ZiggyFishDid anyone actually listen to the Linux Action Show this week?Sep 17 10:10
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macabeBN has ad for ms office home & student 2k7 on top of page. Is there any way to at least filter ms ads?Sep 17 12:59
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schestowitzHey, friends. I'm back. Have I missed anything?Sep 17 17:27
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schestowitzhttp://beranger.org/index.php?page=diary&2008/09/1...Sep 17 18:25
schestowitzI know it's off topic < http://beranger.org/index.php?page=diary&200... >, but I've been talking about this for hours at the gym this week. It affects a lot of people and will affect the way people perceive Free software. No more $2999 Apple Macs..Sep 17 18:28
schestowitzmacabe: Shane is creating a new E-mail account (he has none at the moment) and I'll convince him to just take the ads off (I've been wanting to do this for almost 2 years, but it's him who pays the hosting bills). The ads comes from all sorts of directions, so if you block microsoft.com, then the ads still come pointing to some Microsoft partner (another domain).Sep 17 18:30
*ReverseGTR (n=Ruth@ool-44c46c4b.dyn.optonline.net) has joined #boycottnovellSep 17 18:50
ReverseGTRso any new news on Microsoft, because I found out something on Google: http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquire...Sep 17 18:51
schestowitzhttp://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2... : "MS won't be a Linux friend until Windows is dead. " It's interesting what M[icrosoft]aritch said eariler:  http://www.linuxworld.com.au/index.php... ( VMware chief says the OS is history ). Midori or SUSE?Sep 17 18:51
schestowitzReverseGTR: Charlie is not very reliable, but he recently dug up dirt on NVidia.Sep 17 18:52
ReverseGTRproblem with virtual machines like VMware is they still need to virtualize all aspects of the API, which in tern hinders 3D and other hardware performanceSep 17 18:53
ReverseGTRso whats the dirt on Nvidiot?Sep 17 18:54
schestowitzLet me dig.Sep 17 18:54
schestowitzhttp://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2... (part of a series... scroll down to links)Sep 17 18:55
ReverseGTRwhich one. how they got Intel to include NV200 PCIe accelerator into X58 motherboards so they all work with SLI?Sep 17 18:57
ReverseGTRoh, I see they want Intel to do that while the vendors don'tSep 17 18:58
schestowitzI have NVidia+AMD on this box. I worry that I'm affected by the defects.Sep 17 18:59
schestowitzThe folks at Phoronix don't trust Charlie though. I tend to trust them on that one because I inquired.Sep 17 19:00
ReverseGTRwhich graphics card are you using?Sep 17 19:00
ReverseGTRFrom what I recall it affects notebooks more since they already run at a high thermal envelopeSep 17 19:03
ReverseGTRit also seems to be affecting the Geforce 7 series and 8 more so then 9Sep 17 19:04
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schestowitzReverseGTR: I think they are being sued by shareholder now for downplaying the severity (range of products affected).Sep 17 19:05
schestowitz*shareholder (typo).   Speaking of which, the funny thing is that my dad used to be a Novell investor when I was younger. He also did _a lot_ of business with Samsung, which BN boycotts as well.Sep 17 19:05
ReverseGTRschestowitz: yes, they are since before they were stating it only affected the 7 series and mobile 8 series GPU. But it is now discovered that 8 as well as some mobile 9s are also affectedSep 17 19:06
schestowitzThey played safe art first , placing blame on what they already know for sure. I wonder how much inside-trading was to be spotted there. Reminds me of Microsoft and that criminal Robbie bach.Sep 17 19:08
ReverseGTRthe fact is the problem is with there being not enough thermal paste as well as chips that are not speced to withstand fluctuating temperatures over time. So we will not know if even the latest Nvidia graphics cards and GPUs are affected until a few years down the lineSep 17 19:08
schestowitzThat's what stress testing is for. Watch what happened with XBox 360. I wrote about it the other day.Sep 17 19:09
schestowitzcyberphoenix liked it: http://www.mixx.com/stories/_...Sep 17 19:10
ReverseGTRBut it also has to be in part that they have allot of parts on those graphics cards to test out. And since they don't own any fabrication plants they feel they can save capital and rely on their vendors to. I knew that motto they use to have for "fitting the most semiconductors on one chip" would come back to haunt them. :PSep 17 19:10
ReverseGTRATi/AMD are in a better position to do quality testing since they own quite a few fab factories. They also don't try to make the most sophisticated graphics cards and rather take an approach to integrating features and even making them driver base if possible.Sep 17 19:12
schestowitzThe integrated GPU-CPU will come from the big two soon. NVIdia knows this and worries.Sep 17 19:15
schestowitzI hope to get around to Intel's abuses prior to 2000 some time in the future. The folks at Groklaw had some discussion about Intel's past some time when we all ranted about their OLPC sabotage.Sep 17 19:16
schestowitzhttp://www.olpcnews.com/countries/per... "My feeling is also that each time there is a confusion there is a risk to lose an OLPC volunteer because each announcement on Windows hurt Sugar volunteers. And each volunteer is very important to give support and help to the coming new XO users."Sep 17 19:16
ReverseGTRschestowitz: True but there will always be a place for discrete graphics among folks who desire more performance then the norm. Now don't get me wrong, high and mid-end Nvidia cards rule performance wise. But having a fabless company that designs graphic chipsets that rely mainly on hardware implemented features may cause reliability issues without them interrogating vendors.Sep 17 19:16
schestowitzNASA and Hollywood love NVIDIA. They just need lots of polygons. Reliability is less of an issue. It's like a flea market.Sep 17 19:18
ReverseGTRschestowitz: Sugar is a very nice GUI with nice apps and features but it is unlike any other GUI which will probably made it hard for them to gain developers regardless of Windows. OLPC could have opted for the user to be able to select between Sugar and KDE/XFCE rather then bending over for M$.Sep 17 19:20
schestowitzYes, but Nick was a friend of Bill.Sep 17 19:20
schestowitzBack in 2007 (early, IIRC) he gave credit to Bill and he lost my trust.Sep 17 19:21
schestowitzMS slogs it to discourages volunteers... for about 2 years now. All sort of vapourware announcement for over a year.Sep 17 19:21
ReverseGTRschestowitz: have they even re-implemented the coloress screen feature on OLPC in Sugar on Windows?Sep 17 19:22
schestowitzNoSep 17 19:22
schestowitzIt's not about making it a success.Sep 17 19:23
ReverseGTRschestowitz: I admit though I did read up on how most governments in countries wanted a cheap PC with a Windows looking interface.Sep 17 19:23
ReverseGTRbut those were the advisors of the governmentsSep 17 19:23
schestowitzMission is to: 1) tell the world that Linux on laptops suxxx [sic]; 2) avoid children getting exposed to 'something else' (Fedora in Peru is one of the largest desktop GNU/Linux deployments)Sep 17 19:24
ReverseGTRwell then, I am sure Nick and Bill already had a toast to their sucessSep 17 19:25
schestowitzI published an article about it: http://www.olpcnews.com/countries/peru...Sep 17 19:25
schestowitzoops. http://itmanagement.earthweb.com/os...Sep 17 19:25
ReverseGTRschestowitz: sometimes I feel that the only real way to throw a wrench into M$'s domination globally is if a certain country such as Iran made a computer and an OS specialized for the Islamic worldSep 17 19:26
schestowitzSee my article. People recommend what they know. Better is worse if it's different (Linus)Sep 17 19:27
ReverseGTRno joke, since Arabic, Farsi and Malaysian syntax is still lacking on Windows or on any OS in the API level :PSep 17 19:27
schestowitzThat already happens in many countries: Brazil (Debian), Uzbekistan, Kerala...Sep 17 19:27
ReverseGTRschstowitz: its needs to happen in moreSep 17 19:30
schestowitzReverseGTR: let me find something new.Sep 17 19:31
schestowitzGot it. it's Glyn Moody who drew my attention to it: http://commonspace.wordpress.com/2008/09/16...Sep 17 19:31
schestowitz"Noy’s built up a team inside NiDA to localize open source desktop apps into Khmer (a language too small to be interesting to Microsoft), build up open source development skills amongst young people (still early days on this one) and train end users on Linux, Open Office and Firefox (20,000 people and counting). He’s also the major champion behind Khmer OS, a localized OpenSuse distribution."Sep 17 19:31
ReverseGTRschestowitz: thats one great way of doing another is to appeal to people politically. If a distro of Linux was created not only to read Arabic fonts but to use it on the terminal level I am sure most of the Middle East and North Africa would switchSep 17 19:33
schestowitzWFT: watch this: http://blogs.computerworld.com/i_want_a_real_linux_a...Sep 17 19:33
schestowitzDoes Google expect volunteers to do its own work??? I can't figure out the association/affiliation of the commenter. At least Google is doing mirrors' repos now. Can't complain *too* much.Sep 17 19:34
schestowitzI quite like Parsix: http://www.parsix.org/html/index.php (there are some nice stories around it, once you get past the US daemonisation of Iranians).Sep 17 19:35
ReverseGTRschestowitz: well like someone else told me, Google only uses open source where they see fit as well as using it to divert attention from their marketshare. Like how they refuse to accept the Affero GPL because it doesn't suite their business needs.Sep 17 19:36
schestowitzYes, I know. Source = PR.Sep 17 19:36
ReverseGTRschestowitz: does Parsix enable users to utilize the terminal in Persian?Sep 17 19:38
schestowitzSergey and Larry didn't give any source code until /when/? The hiring of DiBona? Even /he/ is embarrassed by it. See the comments here: http://radar.oreilly.com/archives/2008/05/go...Sep 17 19:38
schestowitzI told Moody about it. He also wrote http://www.computerworlduk.com/community/blogs/in...Sep 17 19:38
schestowitzReverseGTR: yes, it's Ubuntu-based and very similar (dark theme). I like the fact that they emphasise GNU and I have some photos from their schools. They really want to help the kids.Sep 17 19:39
ReverseGTRschestowitz: thats awesome, hopefully the Iranian government will put their money where their mouth is instead of in nuclear arms to look for more peaceful ways to increase their independence from foreign and become a nation to be reckoned withSep 17 19:41
ReverseGTRforeign interests I meantSep 17 19:42
ReverseGTRThey already outlawed stoning as punishment so they are progressingSep 17 19:42
ReverseGTRhttp://humanrightlaw.blogspot.com/2008/08/iran...Sep 17 19:44
schestowitzReverseGTR: let me look up my refs about Iran. They had fundings withawn.Sep 17 19:44
schestowitz*withdrawnSep 17 19:44
schestowitzThe following is a decent accumulation but I have more. Read in sequence: Mobile Linux company, Azingo (News - Alert), has announced that it’s all set to demonstrate its new Web 2.0 applications running on Azingo Mobile, its open mobile Linux platform.Sep 17 19:45
schestowitzOops. Wrong paste again.The following is a decent accumulation: http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.advoc...Sep 17 19:45
ReverseGTRschestowitz: I have not read anything in that link about funding being cut, thank g0dSep 17 19:46
schestowitzReverseGTR: "if you treat them like criminals, criminals they will become." I am very concerned about the US attitude towards some nations, to whom they give no opportunity.Sep 17 19:47
schestowitzReverseGTR: wait then. I didn't check the linksSep 17 19:47
schestowitzIt's likely that I read it but didn't document it because it's negative advocacy. Let me use teh Google [Dubya accent /]Sep 17 19:48
schestowitzI give up. It hard to find old new based on statements you vaguely recall. It wasn't a big headliner at the time.Sep 17 19:50
ReverseGTRschestowitz: nothing Iranian if its not about weapons and Islamic fanaticism isSep 17 19:51
schestowitzThat's all I find by search teH GooglarSep 17 19:51
schestowitzUnless one searches in Arabic, I suppose. I studies Arabic for 2 or 3 years. :-)Sep 17 19:52
schestowitz*studiedSep 17 19:52
ReverseGTRschestowitz: terrorist!Sep 17 19:53
*ReverseGTR calls Homeland SecuritySep 17 19:53
schestowitz*LOL* No, no. I was pretty good. I got like 85% or 90%Sep 17 19:53
ReverseGTRThen you must be the leader of a terror cell or mastermind of some sort of terrorist plot that has, or will happenSep 17 19:54
schestowitzI notice that Dellubuntu have already decided that everyone 'wants' to buy MSFTware: http://blog.canonical.com/?p=37Sep 17 19:54
ReverseGTRlol jkSep 17 19:54
ReverseGTRyou sure thats the right link? The article is about codecs and DVD playback on UbuntuSep 17 19:55
schestowitzArabic is the most spoken language, IIRC (most people, not countries). We would be is terrible trouble if about 2 billion people on this planet were malicious-minded zealots. Apparently, that's not the case.Sep 17 19:55
ReverseGTRschestowitz: and imagine only 12 million people aka the Jews controll it. It as in the worldSep 17 19:56
schestowitzReverseGTR: yes, but they bundle it with all Dell boxes, so you pay for rubbish you can get for free and cannot ope out.Sep 17 19:56
schestowitzIt's easy to blame groups, not individuals.Sep 17 19:56
schestowitzThe "Them" used to be the Soviets.Sep 17 19:56
ReverseGTRschestowitz: and before that zee GermansSep 17 19:57
schestowitzYes. Watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFx... (it talks about the Soviets too)Sep 17 19:58
ReverseGTRschestowitz: anyway about Dell bundling M$ tarballs into their Ubuntu based PCs. They already have an agreement that covers them purchasing M$ software so in actuality it should not be costing them much more.Sep 17 19:59
schestowitzWell, they also joined the MS/Novell deal just days before 'patent terrorism.Sep 17 20:00
schestowitzPlease read this very short and recent item: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/08/2...Sep 17 20:01
ReverseGTRschestowitz: yea, I am definitely never buying a Dell PC for some timeSep 17 20:07
schestowitzSomeone told me about Shuttlewortth in advance, but I had to keep it private. He spoke to them (I think directly) about codecs. So did Red Hat, but they backed off.Sep 17 20:08
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ReverseGTRschestowitz: alright I g2g now, but before I do I want to send you your condolences for your recent accident and hope you get well soon ;) http://www.winvistaclub.com/forum/windows-vista-...Sep 17 20:23
schestowitz*LOL* the libel.Sep 17 20:24
ReverseGTRbtw, I think whoever posted that needs to call or logon to a self-help forumSep 17 20:24
*ReverseGTR has quit ()Sep 17 20:25
mib_dnipn3as well as askhimself why he draws attention to it .. :)Sep 17 20:28
schestowitzIt's Gary M Stewart who did this. It has the opposite effect though. Although my family notices these posts sometimes, it's too ridiculous to be believable. They are some more believable sorts of libels, such as claims that I launch DDOS attacks. Groklaw was accused of the same thing.Sep 17 20:30
mib_dnipn3I wouldn't even give it the dignity of a response ..Sep 17 20:33
schestowitzSome say it's better to respond and eliminate the big lie, otherwise, if repeated frequently enough, it becomes a perceived truth.Sep 17 20:35
mib_dnipn3plain e-Mail hacked ..Sep 17 20:37
mib_dnipn3http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2008/...Sep 17 20:37
mib_dnipn3Palin ....Sep 17 20:38
schestowitzhttp://antitrust.slated.org/media-...Sep 17 20:39
mib_dnipn3Anonymous, that's the Scientology grievers .. must be some kind of false flag operation ?Sep 17 20:40
mib_dnipn3antitrust ?Sep 17 20:42
schestowitzMicrosoft seems to be hooking up with a shop that sells junk to the masses. Good marriage there: http://news.cnet.com/8301-13526_3-10041087-27.html?tag...Sep 17 20:43
MinceRanonymous isn't just a scientology grieverSep 17 20:43
MinceRlurk moar ;)Sep 17 20:43
schestowitzmib_dnipn3: antitrust is the subdomain of the Iowa exhibits.Sep 17 20:44
mib_dnipn3Is there any proof 'anonymous' hacked the Palin account ?Sep 17 20:44
schestowitzI used it a lot: http://antitrust.slated.org/Sep 17 20:44
mib_dnipn3mib_dnipn3: = Doug .. forgot the name :]Sep 17 20:48
schestowitzThe open source brand is being heavily overused, abused and misused by the spooks. Here is the latest: http://blog.wired.com/defense/2008/09/download-hayden.html (transparency? CIA? ./melaughs)Sep 17 21:05
mib_dnipn3What has source code got to do with intelligence ?Sep 17 21:09
schestowitzNothing. They share some info and call it 'open source;Sep 17 21:10
mib_dnipn3Like using words like synergy .. makes it sound kool :)Sep 17 21:11
schestowitzThere are worse examples like "Open Source sex" and "Open Source energy"Sep 17 21:12
cjschestowitz: have you run nmap on cia.gov?Sep 17 21:12
cjthey've got cvs port open last time I didSep 17 21:13
schestowitzFor text?Sep 17 21:13
cjI don't know what's on the repository, I was just surprised to find the port openSep 17 21:13
schestowitzI had a friend who wrote his thesis with CVS (TeX)Sep 17 21:14
cjCVS as in Concurrent Version System... like svn - 1Sep 17 21:15
cjLaTeX is pretty common for theses, I hear.  my friend emily wroter hers in LaTeX using emacs.Sep 17 21:16
schestowitzhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XpnKHJAok8Sep 17 21:16
schestowitznmap is now illegal in the UK, IIRC> Gordie and B1llieSep 17 21:17
dentlatex is a must if you deal with eqationsSep 17 21:19
dentwriting my thesis in any GUIish editor would have made ma crawl the wallSep 17 21:19
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dent(pardon me for chipping in :)Sep 17 21:20
cjsounds like you're on topic :)Sep 17 21:20
schestowitzCIA-like incompetence: http://www.schneier.com/blog/archive...Sep 17 21:34
trmancohttp://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/09/17/...Sep 17 21:35
trmancowhat -> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/09/16/...Sep 17 21:36
schestowitztrmanco: I have a big post about it coming. I harvest some sources right now.Sep 17 21:37
trmancookSep 17 21:38
schestowitzThe BECTA thing. I don't want to draw attention to ActiveX+CTRL+ALT+DEL security illusion. Dan Goodin just wrote it to provoke, IMHO.Sep 17 21:39
MinceRdunno if this has been here, but  http://www.theinquirer.net/en/inquirer/news/2007/06/...Sep 17 21:39
schestowitzIna Friedshill wrote about it too, IIRC, so you know where it's coming from.Sep 17 21:39
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schestowitzhttp://groups.google.com/group/comp.os...Sep 17 21:41
schestowitzMore recent here: http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.a...Sep 17 21:41
schestowitzThis one if strong: http://www.linux.com/feature/147359Sep 17 21:44
trmancohttp://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/ostatic/~3/3954356...Sep 17 21:45
schestowitzOops. This one: http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linu...Sep 17 21:45
schestowitztrmanco: VMWare is somewhat of a puppet now, IMHO. Not as much as Xentrix.Sep 17 21:46
MinceRwhat did vmware do?Sep 17 21:48
schestowitzhttp://boycottnovell.com/2008/09...Sep 17 21:49
*libervisco_ is now known as liberviscoSep 17 21:51
schestowitzpeaking on Schneier on USBs: http://news.zdnet.com/2424-9595_22-221589.htmlSep 17 21:55
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