Several months ago we wrote about Microsoft's trashing of YouTube with OOXML 'propaganda', among other things. It's probably not something the company would even deny. In fact, being already seen as somewhat of a 'norm', companies no longer feel guilty about it.
“We will start pointing this out in the future, whenever potential marketing people of Novell appear to be littering YouTube a little more.”This post intends to set the record straight on one particular YouTube 'user' which goes under the name "NovellVideo". It's uploading Novell commercials at a rapid pace, the latest example being this one from yesterday.
What to make of it all? It's an open question, but extensive circumstantial evidence is there on YouTube. We will start pointing this out in the future, whenever potential marketing people of Novell appear to be littering YouTube a little more.
A couple of days ago, Bruce Perens had this to say about his experiences with viral marketing at H-P. He cites YouTube as an example:
[J]ust about every PR firm offers to help "manage the perception of your company in online communities" these days. What do you think that means? Astroturfing Slashdot, Youtube, etc. In my various manangement positions it's been offered to me. Indeed, some of the companies offer to create negative publicity for your competition that way - HP had a publicity firm for its Linux activities that told us it would do that when we wanted. I never asked them to do so and hope nobody else did either.
This stuff is just standard these days. You've got to expect it.
I think mostly they'd like to dilute "Open Source" to mean any code with source code. This is important to them because it's the rights connected to Open Source that scare Microsoft (and others). If you can call it Open Source when there isn't even the right to compile the code, or to use the information you get from reading it, customers don't have a reason to ask for it any longer.
Their publicity agencies are here on Slashdot pumping that angle every day.
Domain ID:D117910110-LROR Domain Name:VOICESFORINNOVATION.ORG Created On:06-Mar-2006 23:49:37 UTC Last Updated On:14-Nov-2007 00:21:24 UTC Expiration Date:06-Mar-2009 23:49:37 UTC Sponsoring Registrar:Tucows Inc. (R11-LROR) Status:CLIENT TRANSFER PROHIBITED Status:CLIENT UPDATE PROHIBITED Registrant ID:tukvECSsFENx3T2h Registrant Name:Microsoft Corporation Registrant Organization:Microsoft Corporation
--Microsoft, internal document [PDF]
Comments
AlexH
2008-10-07 12:44:52
Dan O'Brian
2008-10-07 13:07:17
You'll notice that every one of Roy's accusations about Novell "astroturfing" has been Novell employees using their own names on a forum (god forbid they be allowed to voice their opinions).
Funnily enough, when Roy's friends astroturf using their 14+ accounts, they do not use their real names and even try to make out like each account is a different person when in reality they are all the same person.
Roy Schestowitz
2008-10-07 13:24:18
You, Dan O'Brian, are still here to troll (or to AstroTurf) in this Web site for your own gain. Have you no shame? You refused repeatedly to say which company you work for and you also stated/insinuated on several occasions that you are here defend your work.
AlexH, I don't think you understand what AstroTurfing is.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astroturfing
"Astroturfing in American English is a neologism for formal public relations campaigns in politics and advertising which seek to create the impression of being spontaneous "grassroots" behavior, hence the reference to the artificial grass, AstroTurf."
Where does the account in YouTube say that it's Novell? FWIW, I don't even know if it's Novell, so I did not make a certain accusation.
AlexH
2008-10-07 13:28:34
I'm fully aware of what 'astroturf' means: that's why I'm questioning your use of the term. It's not a synonym for "marketing": an astroturf campaign means getting people to pretend that they are regular customers talking good about something in order to boost the product's profile.
The account says "Novell" when you click on the user info. Whether it actually is Novell or not doesn't matter, because the two possibilities are:
a. it's Novell. Given they're not pretending to be anyone else, this is plainly not astroturfing; b. it's not Novell. It doesn't matter who's pretending, it's not Novell doing it therefore again it's not astroturfing.
It would only be astroturfing if Novell were paying/otherwise encouraging people to do things on their behalf while trying to hide the fact.
Roy Schestowitz
2008-10-07 13:33:37
AlexH
2008-10-07 13:36:47
What exactly would people be fooled into believing?! Absolute worst, they're being fooled that it's Novell when it could be some ordinary Joe.
I very much doubt anyone is going to be fooled into thinking this is some kind of independent Novell fan putting their commercials up there...
Roy Schestowitz
2008-10-07 13:45:58
Roy Schestowitz
2008-10-07 13:46:22
Roy Schestowitz
2008-10-07 13:47:32
AlexH
2008-10-07 13:57:41
Being a corporation isn't a crime, and neither is posting videos to YouTube. You claim that people might be confused somehow, but I really don't see how people would think that this isn't Novell.
I'm sure if you were that worried about people being confused, you have left them a note to ask them to put an official statement on their account or something? Yes?
AlexH
2008-10-07 14:01:28
Was that not something you found in your undoubtedly extensive research?
Roy Schestowitz
2008-10-07 14:02:42
Roy Schestowitz
2008-10-07 14:03:31
Xanadu
2008-10-07 14:22:31
Holy guilt by association, hey Dan, you only have a very few fallacies left to use. Is Novell's situation so sorry that they need such a loser to defend them?
Dan O'Brian
2008-10-07 14:27:37
Roy Schestowitz
2008-10-07 14:28:22
Hey, Dan. 'People' on the Web said that I changed sex, that I molest children and that I have an arrest record. Maybe you can use *that* libel and some people will actually believe that it's true. Carry on seeding the Web with lies, just as enemies of Free software want. They can't find the messages (FOSS) with lies, so they manufacture lies against those who advocate it. You're at danger of becoming part of these "enemies".
Dan O'Brian
2008-10-07 14:31:38
Roy: Have I ever repeated those obviously fictitious lies? No, I have not, nor will I ever bother to.
You yourself manufacture lies all the time Roy, so you are already one of the people you hate so much. Just because you repeat them more often than the people who slander you doesn't make what you say any more truthful than what they say (which is, to say, not true at all).
Roy Schestowitz
2008-10-07 14:31:42
There was at the start (months ago). There are many Dan O'Brians out there.
Please stick to the topic (talk about events and ideas, not people). Your first comment here was an unsubstantiated and insulting personal attack. And you wonder why you're accused of trolling...?
Roy Schestowitz
2008-10-07 14:34:57
Like that recent Intel bug in Linux? I updated the title after more details had emerged and the content still stands. I reported fast, that's all. You could find inaccuracies in /any/ Web site (even the 'almighty' BBC has loads), but you choose to attack *this* Web site. Is it because its message is inconvenient to you?
AlexH
2008-10-07 14:40:15
Dan O'Brian
2008-10-07 14:40:34
And that intel bug is not the first, nor the only example. How about that netbooks with any Linux installed (Ubuntu included) have had high return rates?
How about your insistence that Mono is not Free Software, even when, byt he FSF's own definition, it is?
How about the lie that parts of core GNOME are being replaced by Mono components?
How about the slander you spread about the Mono developer who was doing some performance improvements to Mono and did some comparisons to Java? You claimed he falsified his findings, yet anyone who runs the tests he did finds the same results.
Lie, lie, lie, lie, lie. This site is full of them, all coming from you.
Roy Schestowitz
2008-10-07 14:49:31
Dan O'Brian
2008-10-07 14:51:59
Learn to research BEFORE publishing, that is what a responsible person does.
Roy Schestowitz
2008-10-07 14:57:17
AlexH
2008-10-07 14:59:34
Roy Schestowitz
2008-10-07 15:02:26
AlexH
2008-10-07 15:19:43
I'm sure Novell employees do comment on other web sites. That doesn't count as astroturfing either, unless you want to strip their employees of any right of free expression.
Again, astroturfing is an organised attempt at a corporate level to promote a business. Employees saying positive things about their employer is not exactly a shock nor is it astroturfing; employees are a relatively self-selecting bunch after all.
Roy Schestowitz
2008-10-07 15:21:30
twitter
2008-10-07 15:34:45
twitter
2008-10-07 15:38:01
Roy Schestowitz
2008-10-07 15:45:29
AlexH
2008-10-07 15:55:36
First, Roy knows exactly who I am, as does any other reader of this website. It's not secret knowledge.
Second, I haven't accused you of anything, because I don't argue against people, I argue against false positions.
Third, kindly withdraw your accusations that I somehow "smeared" you. I don't think I've even addressed a comment to you before the last one.
Mark Anderson
2008-10-07 16:49:51
AlexH
2008-10-07 17:20:57
Things usually get surprisingly factual and concise at this point.
Roy Schestowitz
2008-10-07 18:31:15
BuckleDown
2008-10-08 02:45:04
Roy Schestowitz
2008-10-08 02:47:00
BuckleDown
2008-10-08 02:57:08
May I remind you of your public record on Novell before they started their association with Microsoft?
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=144488&cid=12107575
BTW, for anyone who's wondering what's up with this 'twitter' guy from Slashdot, this is required (and entertaining) reading:
http://slashdot.org/~willyhill/journal/205317
Roy Schestowitz
2008-10-08 03:03:46
I stand by what I wrote at the time. Novell chose a different route later.
michael
2008-10-08 03:40:30
BuckleDown
2008-10-08 03:53:27
OK. Did I provide enough of an example about the association thing? You didn't actually say anything about that.
Roy Schestowitz
2008-10-08 03:56:47
...among other things like OOXML agreements, privileged hypervisor access, Mono, etc.
BuckleDown
2008-10-08 04:32:43
@twitter: Can you explain how you are "Showing up M$ astroturfing" in these threads, which are alleged to be posted with multiple accounts all controlled by you:
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=616313&cid=24217943 http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=986049&cid=25269343 http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=619653&cid=24257589
Looks to me like something very different is going on there.
Dan O'Brian
2008-10-08 12:05:34
He knows that unless he starts deleting my comments, his position is hurt because I keep proving that he's a hypocrite and I'm one of the people that keep disproving his lies. Next he'll start deleting AlexH's comments.
Roy Schestowitz
2008-10-08 12:25:04
"
Later on, IIRC (maybe last night or the day before), I made it clear and got reaffirmations for refusing to ever delete comments as that would reduce our credibility.
I have no intentions to change this 'policy' and Shane agrees. Not even comments with obscenities are deleted.
Dan O'Brian
2008-10-08 12:30:38
Yes, you also said "I've never deleted comments before" (emphasis mine), but even put in context with the quote I pasted above, suggests that you were going to start and indeed that's exactly what the other comment insinuates on its own. If that is not what you meant, then why did you say it?
Dan O'Brian
2008-10-08 12:32:00
Ian
2008-10-08 12:37:52
That would be pretty lame. I've defended this website's existence in the past even though I don't agree with with much of the message and don't understand how a Novell boycott site has far more to do with ooxml and microsoft than Novell. However, I feel if comments or implications are levied at companies or individuals, whoever they may be, then those comments should and can be scrutinized. There's a difference, in my mind, between someone scrutinizing this website and someone just trolling the website. Dan and AlexH at least bring constructive arguments to the table. To squash posts like that would do nothing to legitimize this site.
Roy Schestowitz
2008-10-08 12:48:41
Dan O'Brian
2008-10-08 13:14:22
Roy Schestowitz
2008-10-08 13:26:19
Dan O'Brian
2008-10-09 14:16:15
So, it is true. Xanadu is aka twitter. Just another sockpuppet as suspected.
I have to commend Roy for being against this sockpuppetry though. Thanks Roy.
Dan O'Brian
2008-10-09 14:16:58
AlexH
2008-10-09 14:22:17
FWIW, I'm a long time slashdot poster (as in, I have a low uid, but I don't visit there much), and I think you have to accept that it's not read just by free software fans. It's a tech blog, and has a large number of Microsoft fans too, which reflects in the moderation. As do the Mac fanboys.
landofbind
2008-10-09 17:34:25
To clarify, so that no one thinks this is true, Roy Schestowitz has deleted several posts of mine!
And if by "abusive messages" he is referring to comments showing his lying, abusive, fearmogering articles. And his inability to provide answers when confronted with difficult questions.
The only proofs that he provides are "comments" by friends and his own articles.
Note: comment has been flagged for arriving from an incarnation of a known (eet), pseudonymous, forever-nymshifting, abusive Internet troll that posts from open proxies and relays around the world.
Roy Schestowitz
2008-10-09 19:35:51
Comments with vile insults were queued to appear later, sometimes week after they were posted. Here you are admitting that you are 'eet', the only person whose messages were flagged (not deleted).
Ross
2008-11-28 15:55:31
For the record, NovellVideo was created and is being populated for one thing, and one thing only: To have a semi-official place where all the fun and interesting videos that have come out of Novell over the years can be found and consumed.
Anyone attempting to find more than that can have fun, but there are no ulterior motives, just good fun and a thank-you nod to all our customers looking for videos they have seen at Brainshare or other Novell events past.
Ross
+++ ATH0