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| cj | hmm? | Oct 12 00:46 |
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| cj | that sounds pretty bad. have you made a point of telling someone who can do something about it? are you asking me to put you in contact with someone closer to the issue than me? | Oct 12 00:48 |
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| schestowitz | No, they know about it | Oct 12 00:49 |
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| schestowitz | .FOSS people were shown the evidence too. | Oct 12 00:49 |
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| cj | thanks for bringing it to my attention. | Oct 12 00:49 |
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| schestowitz | There are worse stories about what Microsoft did in India. The MD was sacked/ran away, reportedly due to all those fiascos. It's still a mess in Microsoft India, according to mini-microsoft. | Oct 12 00:54 |
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| cj | MD? | Oct 12 01:20 |
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| MinceR | gn | Oct 12 01:38 |
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| twitter | Hello all, I'm back from a nice little trip. | Oct 12 03:02 |
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| twitter | On my trip I learned that a friend had been modbombed for giving modpoints to my comments on Slashdot. | Oct 12 03:03 |
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| twitter | He had never mentioned this on Slashdot and described it as "twitter is poison" | Oct 12 03:04 |
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| twitter | Either my communications with him had been intercepted, someone at Slashdot does not like twitter, or Slashdot is compromised again. | Oct 12 03:05 |
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| twitter | Thought I'd share that before going to bed. See you all in the morning. | Oct 12 03:06 |
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| schestowitz | OT: http://technocrat.net/d/2008/10/1... "According to some preliminary studies, the loss of forest cover and other environmental degradations are costing the world economy between two and five trillion dollars annually." | Oct 12 07:25 |
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| pombat42 | Do you feel global warming is a real, man made situation, a natural cycle or a combination of the two? | Oct 12 07:58 |
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| schestowitz | http://www.heise.de/english/newstic... "More worrying are the problems currently reported from Palm Beach County, where voting machines supplied by Sequoia Voting Systems acted strangely during various ballot counts." | Oct 12 08:22 |
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| schestowitz | pombat42: for a scientific fact, emission /do/ help the warming. | Oct 12 08:23 |
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| pombat42 | sure. but what about things like the little ice age circa 1700 or so. No Co2 back then | Oct 12 08:29 |
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| schestowitz | That's separate from contribution by men | Oct 12 08:31 |
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| pombat42 | of course, but it gives credence to the cyclic theory IOW that these things happen | Oct 12 08:31 |
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| schestowitz | Think along the lines of blaming /not/ smoking for the death of a victim of lung cancer, who was also a smoker.. saying something like "it could have happened even without smoking." | Oct 12 08:33 |
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| pombat42 | smoking is a choice. a poor one. the laws of nature are still mostly unexplained by science | Oct 12 08:34 |
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| schestowitz | I since there will be another 2000-like scandal in this election because of voting machines. | Oct 12 08:34 |
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| pombat42 | re:voting. all the crooked voting machines can not make up for the morons pulling the levers | Oct 12 08:34 |
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| schestowitz | I'm no expert in climatic changes, but I know that oil companies paid many millions to throw disinformation into the pool and 'add balance.' | Oct 12 08:35 |
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| schestowitz | See this video: http://lessig.org/blog/2008/07/netroots_... | Oct 12 08:35 |
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| pombat42 | of course. they make money selling oil. they make far more selling foreign oil | Oct 12 08:35 |
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| pombat42 | how come when a US oil rig goes south due to a hurricane the price of oil skyrockets but yet when a foreign oil producing country, like Iraq, is invaded | Oct 12 08:36 |
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| pombat42 | oil prices remain more or less stable? | Oct 12 08:36 |
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| pombat42 | seems like USA is better off depending on foreign oil (i don't believe that but a point can be made) | Oct 12 08:37 |
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| schestowitz | Puts it in debt.. | Oct 12 08:38 |
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| pombat42 | IMHO the whole system is completely corrupt | Oct 12 08:40 |
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| schestowitz | Yes, you must assume this coming in | Oct 12 08:41 |
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| pombat42 | seriously. who am I going to vote for? McCain, who is a career pol and part of the problem or Obama who doesn't seem to have a clue? | Oct 12 08:42 |
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| pombat42 | Palin and Biden say more than the those two. I like both of them, but for different reasons | Oct 12 08:43 |
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| pombat42 | Palin is rough around the edges, not connected with Washington. Biden is a family guy, not rich and seems to have some good things to say. still, no real choice here | Oct 12 08:44 |
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| pombat42 | So where do I go? | Oct 12 08:44 |
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| schestowitz | Biden is the MPAA's henchman. | Oct 12 08:45 |
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| schestowitz | On the Republicans' side they control McCain. They hold both sides by the balls. | Oct 12 08:46 |
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| schestowitz | You still have choice. | Oct 12 08:46 |
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| schestowitz | Choose vanilla and lemon or lemon and vanilla. | Oct 12 08:46 |
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| pombat42 | Of course. Bush is a puppet, and a moron to boot. I doubt McCain even knows what MPAA is...his sidemen tell him this stuff | Oct 12 08:47 |
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| pombat42 | Vanilla...very funny !!!! | Oct 12 08:47 |
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| schestowitz | The illusion of choice... the corporate giants fund both parties (at the same time) and will therefore control them the same way afterwards. | Oct 12 08:47 |
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| pombat42 | yep. And what is lobbying? legalized whores IMHO | Oct 12 08:47 |
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| schestowitz | McBush knows the $$ from the MPAA. He doesn't need to understand what they do. He has 'advisors' to tell him what to say about them. | Oct 12 08:48 |
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| schestowitz | Guess how those 'advisors' are a$$igned? | Oct 12 08:48 |
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| trmanco | does anybody remember this? -> http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/1073/... | Oct 12 08:48 |
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| pombat42 | Bush is an oil man. Him and Cheny are tighlty connected with Haliburton. Guess who is making tons of money even in these tough times. | Oct 12 08:49 |
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| schestowitz | I saw that last year, trmanco | Oct 12 08:49 |
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| schestowitz | Very good. I still link to it sometimes. | Oct 12 08:49 |
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| pombat42 | Example: why does the USA have to IMPORT Oil/Gasoline/fuel to run it's military vehicles in Iraq, a country overflowing with oil... | Oct 12 08:50 |
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| trmanco | yes its old, but looks nice... just to bring up that M$ said that opengl was dead | Oct 12 08:50 |
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| schestowitz | It's over a year old. No example of OGL3 | Oct 12 08:50 |
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| schestowitz | Microsoft has a Slog against OpenGL. | Oct 12 08:51 |
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| schestowitz | They call it "War". | Oct 12 08:51 |
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| pombat42 | opengl is of interest to camers, few others even know what it is. | Oct 12 08:51 |
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| schestowitz | "Ideally, use of the competing technology becomes associated with mental deficiency, as in, "he believes in Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, and OS/2." Just keep rubbing it in, via the press, analysts, newsgroups, whatever. Make the complete failure of the competition's technology part of the mythology of the computer industry. We want to place selection pressure on those companies and individuals that show a genetic weakness for com | Oct 12 08:51 |
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| schestowitz | petitors' technologies, to make the industry increasingly resistant to such unhealthy strains, over time." | Oct 12 08:51 |
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| schestowitz | From Microsoft, internal document < http://boycottnovell.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/0...> | Oct 12 08:51 |
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| pombat42 | the press are morons | Oct 12 08:51 |
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| pombat42 | example? take a look at Ben Stein who admitted today on FoxNews that he lost a fortune the past few weeks | Oct 12 08:52 |
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| pombat42 | and I like him | Oct 12 08:52 |
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| schestowitz | Why was that? | Oct 12 08:52 |
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| schestowitz | Well, why is this relevant? Many losta fortune. | Oct 12 08:52 |
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| pombat42 | he invested poorly and didn't anticipate the market | Oct 12 08:53 |
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| pombat42 | yea, but he is an icon of the financial industry | Oct 12 08:53 |
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| schestowitz | I don't watch Fox 'News', so I don't know that Ben. | Oct 12 08:53 |
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| trmanco | lol | Oct 12 08:53 |
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| trmanco | Windows: innovative VTP technology (Virus Transfer | Oct 12 08:53 |
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| trmanco | Protocol) | Oct 12 08:53 |
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| trmanco | where did you get this from? | Oct 12 08:53 |
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| schestowitz | Made it up. | Oct 12 08:53 |
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| pombat42 | huh? | Oct 12 08:54 |
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| trmanco | lol | Oct 12 08:55 |
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| trmanco | funny | Oct 12 08:55 |
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| pombat42 | Huh? | Oct 12 08:56 |
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| trmanco | you better license that under the GPL before M$ steals your idea | Oct 12 08:57 |
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| schestowitz | Ideas can be stolen? | Oct 12 08:58 |
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| schestowitz | That's like saying that spirit can be robbed. | Oct 12 08:58 |
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| pombat42 | Why bother? Copyright it, patent it and make some real money. GPL? No way... if I have an idea I want to make money not deal with some nebulous script. | Oct 12 08:58 |
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| trmanco | well from M$ who knows | Oct 12 08:58 |
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| schestowitz | Myhrvold attitude: I AM a thinker! Yes! I am your God. You shall pay me for my thinking, $150 per word I utter. | Oct 12 08:59 |
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| trmanco | lol | Oct 12 08:59 |
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| schestowitz | Time at Microsoft messed with the man's brain. | Oct 12 08:59 |
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| pombat42 | and yet if they offered you 100 dollars per word you would take it. anyone would. | Oct 12 09:00 |
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| schestowitz | Time for the shock treatment. Must undo ego... | Oct 12 09:00 |
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| pombat42 | I would | Oct 12 09:00 |
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| schestowitz | He doesn't /take/ the money | Oct 12 09:01 |
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| schestowitz | he's hunting for it. | Oct 12 09:01 |
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| schestowitz | He threatens companies like Cisco and Verizon, IIRC. | Oct 12 09:01 |
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| schestowitz | Doe daring to have thought about the same ide.... errr... portfolio. | Oct 12 09:01 |
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| schestowitz | There can be a word for it: "knowledge terrorist" | Oct 12 09:02 |
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| pombat42 | a more accurate word is nuts | Oct 12 09:02 |
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| schestowitz | Knowledge terrorist: a man or woman who terrified poor victims who dare think the same things. | Oct 12 09:02 |
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| pombat42 | nut: a person who believes everyone is out to get him/her | Oct 12 09:03 |
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| schestowitz | So that's the opposite role. | Oct 12 09:05 |
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| schestowitz | http://it.toolbox.com/blogs/infosphere/2009-show-down-... "If the company tries to file for everything they invent they spend a fortune on patent attorney fees and filing costs. If they don’t file then another company will “invent” the same thing and file and the original company can end up being threatened for patent infringement." | Oct 12 09:05 |
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| schestowitz | That would make the 'troll victim' the 'nut'... for a person who's a software developer it must be no joy. COmpanies like facebook and Digg get sued by trolls for their success. | Oct 12 09:06 |
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| PetoKraus | schestowitz: no, no, that's not terrorist | Oct 12 09:19 |
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| PetoKraus | terrorist would be the one who terrifies people with different thoughts. | Oct 12 09:19 |
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| PetoKraus | do'h, the crapbuntu wallpaper will still look like diarrhoea shit. literally | Oct 12 09:21 |
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| PetoKraus | http://www.linuxloop.com/news/2008/10/11/ahh-mu... | Oct 12 09:21 |
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| Eruaran | hello | Oct 12 09:35 |
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| PetoKraus | hello | Oct 12 09:36 |
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| Eruaran | Im thinking it might be time to try a new distro | Oct 12 09:36 |
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| Eruaran | Been looking at Sidux | Oct 12 09:37 |
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| schestowitz | PetoKraus: the wallpaper is OK | Oct 12 09:37 |
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| schestowitz | Some people really like these ton es. | Oct 12 09:37 |
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| PetoKraus | yes, but it was promised that the theme would be changed, wasn't it. | Oct 12 09:37 |
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| Eruaran | Canonical doesn't care about Kubuntu | Oct 12 09:38 |
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| schestowitz | Hey, Eruaran. PetoKraus the problem I see if the misuse and generalisation of the word "terrorism". Schneier says they even call protesters "terrorism" now. | Oct 12 09:38 |
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| Eruaran | I think they should treat it the same as Xubuntu and cease all official support. I feel they're just jerking KDE users around. | Oct 12 09:39 |
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| PetoKraus | schestowitz: yes, ofc. You can track it down to that "police accident" in london subway after the "terrorist" attacks.... | Oct 12 09:39 |
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| Eruaran | We should all go support the Debian KDE team | Oct 12 09:39 |
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| PetoKraus | Eruaran: well, yes... | Oct 12 09:39 |
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| PetoKraus | i had hard time explaining the difference between copyrights and patents yesterday | Oct 12 09:40 |
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| schestowitz | Eruaran: try Mandriva 2009. | Oct 12 09:40 |
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| Eruaran | The attitudes from 'gnomies' has been bugging me lately | Oct 12 09:40 |
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| PetoKraus | mainly - the purpose of patents at all. It seems so useless now. | Oct 12 09:40 |
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| schestowitz | I hear it's good. Best KDE4 implementation. | Oct 12 09:40 |
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| Eruaran | k | Oct 12 09:40 |
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| schestowitz | Don't reward Canonical for neglecting KDE. | Oct 12 09:40 |
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| Eruaran | I hate RPM distro's though | Oct 12 09:40 |
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| Eruaran | Thats why I've been looking at Sidux | Oct 12 09:41 |
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| schestowitz | PetoKraus: patent = idea; copyright = expression. | Oct 12 09:41 |
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| PetoKraus | schestowitz: that's oversimplifying | Oct 12 09:41 |
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| schestowitz | You can paraphrase. | Oct 12 09:41 |
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| Eruaran | Sidux is pretty much just Debian already set up for folks who want KDE | Oct 12 09:41 |
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| schestowitz | For each idea, there are almost-infinitely many implementations. You can't work past them. | Oct 12 09:42 |
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| schestowitz | Eruaran: it works (the RPM) | Oct 12 09:42 |
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| PetoKraus | Eruaran: i don't like to use "derivatives", because they tend to have lower degree of support than the "mother" distro | Oct 12 09:42 |
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| PetoKraus | schestowitz: i don't believe you (on the RPM) | Oct 12 09:43 |
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| Eruaran | Sidux is just Debian unstable | Oct 12 09:43 |
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| schestowitz | GUI just like Synaptic | Oct 12 09:43 |
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| Eruaran | Same repositories | Oct 12 09:43 |
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| MinceR | hay | Oct 12 09:43 |
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| PetoKraus | schestowitz: i don't use gui, neither on my debian box, nor on my gentoo box | Oct 12 09:44 |
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| PetoKraus | apt-cache search && apt-get install.... | Oct 12 09:44 |
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| schestowitz | I was going to install Debian. | Oct 12 09:44 |
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| PetoKraus | the only problem with debian is, you can't do much without enabling the debian.multimedia.org repositories | Oct 12 09:44 |
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| Eruaran | Debian KDE maintainers invited Jonathan Riddel to join them saying they need the help | Oct 12 09:44 |
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| PetoKraus | eg - there's no DeCSS in debian's repos (even in non-free) | Oct 12 09:44 |
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| Eruaran | thats no biggie | Oct 12 09:45 |
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| PetoKraus | i know | Oct 12 09:45 |
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| PetoKraus | and i'd rather like to enable custom repositories and keep my system quiet | Oct 12 09:45 |
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| PetoKraus | like having them enabled by default, and the system asking me about "what binary blob would you like to install today?" | Oct 12 09:46 |
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| Eruaran | I saw the dumbest thing | Oct 12 09:47 |
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| Eruaran | People complaining that Gnome doesn't give you any way to configure screensavers that have config options | Oct 12 09:47 |
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| schestowitz | That might confuse the user. | Oct 12 09:48 |
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| Eruaran | And the maintainers opinion was that any screensaver that has configuration options is "inherently broken" | Oct 12 09:48 |
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| PetoKraus | well, gnome is weird. See epiphany? | Oct 12 09:48 |
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| PetoKraus | it WAS a good browser, light, fast | Oct 12 09:48 |
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| schestowitz | https://lists.linux-foundation.org/pipermai... | Oct 12 09:49 |
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| PetoKraus | then they removed almost every useful feature from it. I think, in next version it'll be links*gtk | Oct 12 09:49 |
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| schestowitz | How tactless of Linus | Oct 12 09:49 |
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| Eruaran | So Ubuntu, for example, has slideshow screensavers that cannot be configured... like the Carosel, no pictures, so it just displays the default x image... | Oct 12 09:49 |
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| MinceR | lol | Oct 12 09:50 |
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| trmanco | http://forum.deluge-torrent.org/... | Oct 12 09:50 |
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| Eruaran | Linus was right | Oct 12 09:50 |
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| Eruaran | And things havent improved | Oct 12 09:50 |
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| PetoKraus | tactless, but correct | Oct 12 09:50 |
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| Eruaran | If you want to be able to choose some nice pictures that you like for your slideshow screensaver... use KDE | Oct 12 09:51 |
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| Eruaran | the kind of attitude displayed by some gnome developers is just plain retarded | Oct 12 09:52 |
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| schestowitz | I happened to read this 5 minutes ago (it's new): http://tech.shantanugoel.com/2008/07/08/the-big... | Oct 12 09:54 |
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| schestowitz | 'twas in FSDaily | Oct 12 09:55 |
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| Eruaran | Linus was absolutely correct. I don't think this kind of stupidity needs to be treated tactfully. | Oct 12 09:56 |
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| Eruaran | You can't talk about usability when there isn't a usable dialogue to use that does what the user wants to do at all. | Oct 12 09:57 |
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| schestowitz | Well, he wrote a patch | Oct 12 09:58 |
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| Eruaran | "" | Oct 12 09:59 |
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| Eruaran | But hey, just continue to remove all that confusing functionality from | Oct 12 09:59 |
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| Eruaran | Gnome. I don't care. I voted with my feet. | Oct 12 09:59 |
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| Eruaran | that quote didnt quite work right | Oct 12 09:59 |
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| Eruaran | :p | Oct 12 09:59 |
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| schestowitz | Well, gnome logo | Oct 12 10:00 |
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| MinceR | lol | Oct 12 10:01 |
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| PetoKraus | oh man, that HAVOC guy is terrible troll | Oct 12 10:28 |
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| schestowitz | URL? | Oct 12 10:28 |
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| schestowitz | The Inquirer has had a very distracting menu picture since yesterday: http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/... | Oct 12 10:29 |
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| PetoKraus | schestowitz: the linus rant follow up | Oct 12 10:32 |
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| schestowitz | Well, and Linus *isn't* a troll? "And the technical term for somebody who claims to do user interface design and not understand this fact is a "FUCKING IDIOT"." | Oct 12 10:35 |
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| PetoKraus | well, that point is true as well | Oct 12 10:36 |
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| schestowitz | He could say "fool" or "idiot" | Oct 12 10:37 |
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| PetoKraus | could, but didn't | Oct 12 10:37 |
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| PetoKraus | that's what language is for | Oct 12 10:37 |
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| PetoKraus | you express what you want to express. | Oct 12 10:37 |
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| schestowitz | He could get kicked had he not been Linus | Oct 12 10:37 |
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| schestowitz | *would | Oct 12 10:37 |
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| PetoKraus | https://lists.linux-foundation.org/piper... | Oct 12 10:40 |
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| PetoKraus | MONOron | Oct 12 10:40 |
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| schestowitz | I knew it was him... from the use of the word "muck" | Oct 12 10:44 |
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| PetoKraus | i mean, maybe gnome is still independent of mono | Oct 12 10:44 |
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| PetoKraus | upstream sources, that is. | Oct 12 10:44 |
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| schestowitz | It's not dependent in partical terms. | Oct 12 10:45 |
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| schestowitz | But when distributed, there's encouragement through availability to put Mono in there. | Oct 12 10:45 |
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| PetoKraus | but all those distributions packaging mono stuff with GNOME create the very evident illusion, that apps from GNOME depend on mono | Oct 12 10:45 |
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| schestowitz | There are many Mono Myths^TM | Oct 12 10:46 |
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| schestowitz | Mono Myth: Mono is fast, Java is slow (it's not) | Oct 12 10:46 |
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| schestowitz | Weak spot: If patent violations are found in Mono, the project will remove the code | Oct 12 10:46 |
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| schestowitz | Excuse: Mono's .DLL and .EXE are just normal binaries (yeah, why ev en have /usr/bin... let's just use c:/progra~1 too) | Oct 12 10:47 |
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| schestowitz | Excuse #2: It's possible to 'just' remove Mono (dependency issue) | Oct 12 10:47 |
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| schestowitz | Lie: GNOME isn't becoming dependent on Mono (good luck finding a GNOME distro without Mono) | Oct 12 10:48 |
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| schestowitz | "He's evil too" FUD pattern: "Mono is like Samba" (not: http://www.computerworlduk.com/community/blogs/i... ) | Oct 12 10:48 |
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| schestowitz | Disinformation: Microsoft and .NET are 'inevitable' anyway (Novell propaganda) | Oct 12 10:48 |
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| schestowitz | Mono marketing: Mono allows programs to run also in other platforms (hey, we don't need Linux anymore). | Oct 12 10:49 |
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| schestowitz | Selling point: It brings Windows developers in (woohoo! More boosters for MOOX, people who don't care about freedom, urge us to love Microsoft despite its well-documented crimes) | Oct 12 10:50 |
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| schestowitz | Gymanastic in logic: It's an ECMA standard (they have misconceptions about RAND and WinForms) | Oct 12 10:50 |
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| schestowitz | And so on... | Oct 12 10:50 |
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| schestowitz | Linux.com pimping proprietary software with DirectX: http://www.linux.com/feature/149902 | Oct 12 10:52 |
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| trmanco | "We know Google submits many bug fixes for Wine, and it is evident | Oct 12 11:04 |
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| trmanco | by the new Picasa V 3.0 beta which is lightning fast and puts Mono | Oct 12 11:04 |
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| trmanco | based application F-spot to shame." | Oct 12 11:04 |
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| trmanco | haha | Oct 12 11:04 |
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| PetoKraus | why the hell does it have to be ran on wine | Oct 12 11:05 |
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| trmanco | http://digg.com/linux_unix/Wine_1_1_6_Re... | Oct 12 11:05 |
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| PetoKraus | mirage <3<3 | Oct 12 11:06 |
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| trmanco | I really don't know why | Oct 12 11:06 |
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| trmanco | here is another good one | Oct 12 11:06 |
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| schestowitz | It's not good if it replaces FOSS projects, even Mono. | Oct 12 11:06 |
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| trmanco | http://digg.com/linux_unix/Wine_1_1_6_Rele... | Oct 12 11:06 |
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| schestowitz | It's proprietary, it's DirectX, it's Windows. | Oct 12 11:06 |
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| trmanco | picassa directx? | Oct 12 11:07 |
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| schestowitz | They should move it to OpenGL and port it properly. | Oct 12 11:07 |
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| trmanco | have to look into that than | Oct 12 11:07 |
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| schestowitz | But I hear that former Microsoft employees in Google might help make silly acquisitions and dev decisions. | Oct 12 11:07 |
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| PetoKraus | ^^ | Oct 12 11:08 |
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| PetoKraus | he's fucking' killing google, i tell ya. | Oct 12 11:08 |
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| PetoKraus | i'm quite surprised Steve didn't throw a chair at the eggthrower in Hungary. | Oct 12 11:08 |
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| PetoKraus | i guess he was just a bit perplex | Oct 12 11:09 |
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| schestowitz | This one is pretty funny: http://vivapinkfloyd.blogspot.com/2008/10/so... | Oct 12 11:09 |
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| trmanco | don't agree with this one -> don't install linux on a system with one sata and one ide drive (adding a hard disk will confuse it even more) | Oct 12 11:10 |
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| trmanco | my system has one sata and one ide drive | Oct 12 11:10 |
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| trmanco | works flawlessly | Oct 12 11:11 |
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| schestowitz | PetoKraus: Balmer is a Chihuahua:. It just barks. | Oct 12 11:11 |
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| PetoKraus | heh, i can't imagine Paris carrying Ballmer in a dog-bag | Oct 12 11:11 |
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| PetoKraus | :D | Oct 12 11:11 |
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| schestowitz | "It was only a short matter of time after making that announcement before KDE 4.1 was released. And with that release have come new releases of distributions that use it. An excellent example of a KDE 4.1 DE/distribution release is, in my opinion, Mandriva 2009. The more I work with the latest version of Mandriva and KDE 4.1.2 the more comfortable I am with the entire distribution. I honestly haven't felt this good about a Linux di | Oct 12 11:13 |
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| schestowitz | stribution using KDE since openSUSE 10.2 and KDE 3." | Oct 12 11:13 |
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| schestowitz | http://blogbeebe.blogspot.com/2008/10/le... | Oct 12 11:13 |
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| PetoKraus | hmm, let's fire the virtualisation engine,then | Oct 12 11:15 |
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| schestowitz | [H]omer seems to have removed this image: http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:Yqciy1HgQBFQnM:http... | Oct 12 11:15 |
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| PetoKraus | schestowitz: so you use mandriva? | Oct 12 11:16 |
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| schestowitz | *LOL* http://farm2.static.flickr.com/... | Oct 12 11:17 |
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| schestowitz | Found it while looking at some BN links. | Oct 12 11:18 |
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| schestowitz | PetoKraus: yes. | Oct 12 11:18 |
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| PetoKraus | :) i like the concept of kde4.1 | Oct 12 11:18 |
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| schestowitz | THis one too: http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=t... | Oct 12 11:18 |
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| PetoKraus | though most of it was taken from E, and from MacOS | Oct 12 11:18 |
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| schestowitz | Eruaran: KDE 4 is catching on. | Oct 12 11:18 |
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| schestowitz | Yes, some of it is like E | Oct 12 11:19 |
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| schestowitz | Speaking of which, in the City of Ember, or whatever that new firm was called, the "E" seems to have been 'stolen' from Enlightenment. | Oct 12 11:19 |
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| schestowitz | *silm | Oct 12 11:19 |
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| schestowitz | *film | Oct 12 11:19 |
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| PetoKraus | yes | Oct 12 11:20 |
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| PetoKraus | let's file copyright infringement | Oct 12 11:20 |
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| PetoKraus | right, i need to start operation barbarossa | Oct 12 11:21 |
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| schestowitz | Yes, no? ttp://www.cinematical.com/media/2008/05/coe_800x1185.jpg | Oct 12 11:21 |
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| PetoKraus | (ie, quest for history books...) | Oct 12 11:21 |
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| schestowitz | Yes? No? http://www.cinematical.com/media/2008/... | Oct 12 11:21 |
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| PetoKraus | it's not really | Oct 12 11:22 |
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| PetoKraus | but i guess i could file a patent for "stylized typing of E in circular way" | Oct 12 11:22 |
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| PetoKraus | in the US, that's it. | Oct 12 11:22 |
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| schestowitz | http://debianadmin.com/copper/albums/e17/n.../a> | Oct 12 11:22 |
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| schestowitz | http://linuxowns.files.wordpr... | Oct 12 11:23 |
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| schestowitz | PetoKraus: yes, e circles. | Oct 12 11:23 |
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| PetoKraus | schestowitz: the last one is my background ;) | Oct 12 11:24 |
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| schestowitz | Sue any publication mathematical with exponentials, too. | Oct 12 11:24 |
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| PetoKraus | :P | Oct 12 11:24 |
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| schestowitz | Made by you or used? | Oct 12 11:24 |
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| PetoKraus | used | Oct 12 11:24 |
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| PetoKraus | not made... it's made by Thomas Haste. It's amazing dark theme | Oct 12 11:25 |
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| trmanco | Debian is sexy -> http://debiansid.files.wordpress.com/2008/... | Oct 12 11:25 |
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| PetoKraus | doh | Oct 12 11:25 |
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| PetoKraus | make the eyes brown | Oct 12 11:25 |
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| PetoKraus | and i'll love it. | Oct 12 11:26 |
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| PetoKraus | though, since we are talking debian, the girl is probably in her 80ties by now | Oct 12 11:26 |
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| trmanco | http://www.dwheeler.com/oss_fs_why.html | Oct 12 11:26 |
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| schestowitz | http://jaysonrowe.wordpress.com/2008/10/... "That’s pretty much all I’ve done. So far, nothing has crashed, Plasma has behaved itself and everything has “just worked”. Mandriva has made me forget that I’m using KDE 4, which is actually a good thing! " | Oct 12 11:28 |
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| trmanco | http://www.dwheeler.com/fuzz-failure-rate.png | Oct 12 11:28 |
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| schestowitz | http://jaysonrowe.files.wordpress.... | Oct 12 11:29 |
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| trmanco | cool | Oct 12 11:29 |
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| trmanco | new mandriva | Oct 12 11:30 |
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| schestowitz | PetoKraus: 80s? Why? She's good looking. | Oct 12 11:30 |
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| schestowitz | trmanco: KDE4 is calming down. The whole noise will vanish, just as Seigo predicated. it was the same with 3.0. | Oct 12 11:30 |
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| schestowitz | *predicted. | Oct 12 11:30 |
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| schestowitz | They have a very strong foundation now. Eruaran would be thrilled. | Oct 12 11:31 |
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| trmanco | looks better than any gnome based distro imo | Oct 12 11:31 |
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| trmanco | even tho gnome is my favorite | Oct 12 11:32 |
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| schestowitz | Ubuntu should aim for a niche and make that Debian wallpaper its default | Oct 12 11:34 |
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| schestowitz | At least that way, people would start saying that Ubuntu is not ugly. | Oct 12 11:34 |
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| schestowitz | IP Innovation v Red Hat and Novell - 1 Year Later http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=... | Oct 12 11:40 |
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| schestowitz | Mandriva 2009: Is It Better Than Mac Or Windows! http://www.efytimes.com/efytimes/29437/news.htm | Oct 12 11:43 |
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| trmanco | http://tech.shantanugoel.com/2008/07/... | Oct 12 11:44 |
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| trmanco | the author of the article has a good point there | Oct 12 11:44 |
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| schestowitz | Implicit save | Oct 12 11:45 |
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| schestowitz | http://weblog.obso1337.org/2008/implicit-save/ | Oct 12 11:46 |
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| trmanco | lol | Oct 12 11:49 |
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| trmanco | well the way that kde does the save is a better way | Oct 12 11:49 |
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| trmanco | gnome should have some settings with implicit save and some others without | Oct 12 11:50 |
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| schestowitz | New: "There are some distros that even go too far in trying to make a distro "newbie" friendly and in the interest of making a few things super easy to find or do, actually remove some of the capability or productiveness overall. That isn't productive either." http://linuxgeeksunited.blogspot.com/200... | Oct 12 12:08 |
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| schestowitz | Another reasons to avoid Monovell: "I really do not understand why Net is not backwards compatible but I suppose at least I should be happy that the libraries can co-exist instead of the old DLL hell. Microsofts attempt to replace Java could have been implemented in a better way." http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?si... | Oct 12 12:14 |
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| schestowitz | http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2008/10/12... http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2008/... | Oct 12 12:38 |
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| benJIman | .net 3.5 is fairly backwards compatible with 2. 2 wasn't with 1 because of how they implemented generics. Java compromised on the generics implementation making them more difficult for developers to understand and losing some of the performance benefits to maintain backwards compatibility. | Oct 12 12:42 |
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| benJIman | Java is not entirely backwards/forwards compatible either. | Oct 12 12:43 |
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| *Eruaran is thrilled | Oct 12 12:59 |
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| twitter | good morning, all. | Oct 12 14:29 |
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| schestowitz | Moin. | Oct 12 14:30 |
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| twitter | schestowitz: patent = invention. Ideas, as you know, are a dime a dozen. Inventions are specific, practical and non obvious combinations of ideas. A patent that covers an idea would be broad enough to be a method patent. | Oct 12 14:32 |
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| twitter | Hey, this is good news, "the rules in patent cases force the parties early on to place their cards on the table" | Oct 12 14:35 |
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| twitter | That will make it a lot harder for M$ to use patents to shake down free software. | Oct 12 14:36 |
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| twitter | Unless they Tojan most distributions with mono. | Oct 12 14:36 |
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| schestowitz | I'm writing about this right now. | Oct 12 14:39 |
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| twitter | cool | Oct 12 14:45 |
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| twitter | what was funny about that vivapinkfloyd page? | Oct 12 14:45 |
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| twitter | the guy is either a moron or a FUDster. | Oct 12 14:45 |
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| twitter | three firefox tabs under five seconds does what? I just opened five in under three and it did nothing. | Oct 12 14:47 |
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| PetoKraus | doh | Oct 12 14:47 |
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| PetoKraus | belkin is shite | Oct 12 14:47 |
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| twitter | it goes downhill from there. | Oct 12 14:47 |
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| twitter | RMS has been blogging the cost of global warming for a while. | Oct 12 14:50 |
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| twitter | the extermination of fisheries and cropland has almost incalculable costs. | Oct 12 14:51 |
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| twitter | One of the worst predictions is the halting of the gulf stream and other deep ocean currents. This could make the oceans look like the Black Sea. | Oct 12 14:52 |
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| twitter | Weakened currents and warmer temperatures in northern California waters has already done a lot of damage. | Oct 12 14:54 |
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| twitter | A cycle of doubt and flood is another thing predicted by global warming models. That's what "extreme" weather ends up doing to crops. | Oct 12 14:55 |
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| twitter | It's not something you can make crops resistant to, so "climate change ready" seeds are a lie. A drought resistant corn, for example, won't be flood resistant and the crop will fail one way or the other. | Oct 12 14:57 |
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| twitter | Then there is the northward migration of tropical disease and pests. Pine beetles have already taken a bite out of forestry. | Oct 12 14:58 |
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| twitter | Positive feedback mechanisms, like methane released from melting permafrost and warmer oceans, is also being documented. It may already be too late to halt. | Oct 12 15:00 |
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| schestowitz | I'll need your help. | Oct 12 15:01 |
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| schestowitz | We need to petition distros. Let me just post it first | Oct 12 15:01 |
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| PetoKraus | umm, interesting | Oct 12 15:01 |
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| twitter | Petition what, KDE support? | Oct 12 15:03 |
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| schestowitz | .This is urgent as OOo3 is out tomorrow and Novell may try publicity stunts: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/10/12/mic... Please pass on to people who can help. | Oct 12 15:07 |
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| PetoKraus | alright, it's starting to get annoying | Oct 12 15:10 |
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| schestowitz | It's starting to get Microsoft. | Oct 12 15:16 |
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| benJIman | O_o | Oct 12 15:25 |
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| benJIman | You do realise go-ooo is about sun using a non-free licence for their version of openoffice and not accepting free software patches from the community unless copyright is assigned to them> | Oct 12 15:26 |
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| schestowitz | I realise that go-ooo is about polluting OOo. | Oct 12 15:31 |
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| benJIman | What makes you think Novell are even involved? | Oct 12 15:32 |
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| benJIman | Just because Michael Meeks is involved? | Oct 12 15:32 |
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| benJIman | Today's articles surpass your usual standard for unsubstantiated misinformation and FUD. | Oct 12 15:34 |
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| benJIman | " we won’t link to actual examples as that would feed Novell’s insidious messages." rofl | Oct 12 15:34 |
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| schestowitz | They use a so-called 'community' to hide involvement. | Oct 12 15:34 |
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| schestowitz | "I'm just a hacker" | Oct 12 15:34 |
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| schestowitz | Same BS as Mono. | Oct 12 15:35 |
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| schestowitz | benJIman: are you here to police on behalf of Novell or just on behalf of your beloved SUSE? | Oct 12 15:35 |
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| benJIman | schestowitz: Have you actually got a problem with a single thing go-ooo has done? I only see a lot of complaining that Novell is contributing to free software. | Oct 12 15:36 |
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| schestowitz | You haven't read carefully enough, methinks. :-D | Oct 12 15:40 |
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| benJIman | I did read the whole "article". | Oct 12 15:43 |
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| twitter | Here's a specific complaint, they use LGPL http://www.gnu.org/licenses/why-not-lgpl.html | Oct 12 16:52 |
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| twitter | If they were friends of software freedom and had something special, they should use GPL instead. | Oct 12 16:53 |
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| twitter | Roy's other complaints were specific as well, Benjie, and you have not really unseated them by mentioning a Novell paid contributor to the project. | Oct 12 17:00 |
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| benJIman | twitter: I don't see any complaints. | Oct 12 17:00 |
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| benJIman | Unless you count the rambling about mono. | Oct 12 17:01 |
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| twitter | His most specific complaint is that go-oo.org is offering something that only Novell customers will be able to use. | Oct 12 17:01 |
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| benJIman | Why's that? | Oct 12 17:01 |
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| twitter | Patents | Oct 12 17:01 |
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| benJIman | Upstream oo has ooxml support too, go-oo oo doesn't have a hard dependency on mono. | Oct 12 17:01 |
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| benJIman | So what's the difference again? | Oct 12 17:02 |
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| twitter | You tell me why go-oo exists. | Oct 12 17:02 |
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| benJIman | Because sun would not accept significant community contributions without copyright assignment. | Oct 12 17:02 |
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| mib_prbh5a | er twitter, you might want to read http://www.openoffice.org/license.html - OpenOffice itself is released under the LGPL ;) | Oct 12 17:03 |
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| twitter | that's a shame. | Oct 12 17:03 |
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| mib_prbh5a | but the decision of the people who created it. | Oct 12 17:03 |
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| benJIman | You could fork it as a GPLed version too, the lgpl is gpl compatible. | Oct 12 17:03 |
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| twitter | brb | Oct 12 17:04 |
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| twitter | Go-oo claimed the upstream sources were under more restrictive licenses. Was that a lie? | Oct 12 17:16 |
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| twitter | Now that they are under the same license, why have a go-oo.org? | Oct 12 17:16 |
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| twitter | When you release source under a copyleft license, why worry about copyright assignment? Isn't it better to assign your copyright to a larger organization that can defend copyleft terms? | Oct 12 17:17 |
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| twitter | The problem of patents is unanswered by a fork, especially a fork loaded with Novell supplied OOXML code. | Oct 12 17:18 |
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| twitter | This fork does not look honest and I don't think sensible distributions are going to embrace it. | Oct 12 17:19 |
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| twitter | Isn't OOXML itself patent encumbered Benjie? | Oct 12 17:23 |
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| twitter | If it is, go-ooxml.org does not need mono for M$ to squash it, wasting all of the developer time spent there. | Oct 12 17:24 |
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| twitter | It's easier for M$ to cry about patent infringement on their formats and language than it is for them to use them against Linux itself. Would this be why Novell is stuffing Gnome with mono and OO with OOXML? | Oct 12 17:27 |
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| trmanco | http://dot.kde.org/1223822418/ | Oct 12 17:51 |
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| trmanco | "The KDE Community today launches the new KDE Forum. The new forum uses the bulletin board software MyBB offering users, developers and people interested in KDE a place to help each other, discuss KDE-related topics and exchange ideas." | Oct 12 17:51 |
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| trmanco | http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/linux... | Oct 12 17:52 |
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| schestowitz | twitter: fair points. It's worth including in a followup | Oct 12 19:35 |
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| schestowitz | trmanco: "MyBB Released as GPL" | Oct 12 19:35 |
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| schestowitz | Someone mail me a translation of: http://www.riksdagen.se/webbnav/?n... | Oct 12 19:36 |
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| schestowitz | ...A parliamentary representative from the far right is proposing to require use of open source in the public sector... | Oct 12 19:36 |
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| schestowitz | ...FOSS allows for better oversight of government work and are of good economic value even outside government. (Note: Sweden is one giant corporate welfare state with many government services now provided by private companies which do an expensive, limited, poor job.) | Oct 12 19:36 |
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| schestowitz | zoobab: http://news.cnet.com/8301-13505_3-10063464-16.html http://www.heise.de/english/new... | Oct 12 19:37 |
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| schestowitz | <schestowitz> IP Innovation v Red Hat and Novell - 1 Year Later http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=200... | Oct 12 19:37 |
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| schestowitz | http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7662565.stm "The global economy is losing more money from the disappearance of forests than through the current banking crisis, according to an EU-commissioned study. It puts the annual cost of forest loss at between $2 trillion and $5 trillion." | Oct 12 20:08 |
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| schestowitz | The post about OOo seems to be well received in Digg... http://digg.com/linux_unix/Microsoft_Novell_Fork_Op... | Oct 12 20:36 |
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| brunomiguel | hello :) | Oct 12 20:44 |
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| schestowitz | Hey, brunomiguel | Oct 12 20:47 |
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| brunomiguel | hello schestowitz | Oct 12 20:48 |
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| trmanco | http://blog.softwarelivre.sapo.pt/2008/10/12/fc... | Oct 12 20:50 |
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| trmanco | Hi | Oct 12 20:50 |
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| brunomiguel | trmanco: viva | Oct 12 20:50 |
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| trmanco | :-) | Oct 12 20:50 |
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| brunomiguel | trmanco: obscene expenses with mostly with dictatorware | Oct 12 20:50 |
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| trmanco | ... | Oct 12 20:51 |
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| trmanco | that is our tax money that pays for a bloated system | Oct 12 20:51 |
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| brunomiguel | sad and true :\ | Oct 12 20:52 |
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| brunomiguel | here in Coimbra, 5 million euros to a microsoft thing. damn lot of money, at least from my standpoint | Oct 12 20:57 |
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| trmanco | 5 million euros just from coimbra is a lot of money, considering the country we are living in | Oct 12 20:58 |
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| trmanco | http://translate.google.com/translate?u=h... | Oct 12 20:59 |
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| trmanco | tranlated version | Oct 12 20:59 |
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| trmanco | translated * | Oct 12 20:59 |
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| brunomiguel | for me it's a fortune that i would glady receive, if they care to give it to me :) | Oct 12 20:59 |
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| trmanco | 1/2 of it would do for me | Oct 12 21:00 |
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| brunomiguel | the full thing or nothing ;) | Oct 12 21:01 |
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| trmanco | lol | Oct 12 21:01 |
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| trmanco | don't get to greedy | Oct 12 21:02 |
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| brunomiguel | who? me?? no | Oct 12 21:02 |
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| brunomiguel | :P | Oct 12 21:02 |
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| schestowitz | What does Rui say? | Oct 12 21:03 |
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| brunomiguel | schestowitz: read this to get an idea http://translate.google.com/translate?u=htt... | Oct 12 21:07 |
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| schestowitz | Microsoft almost bought SAP | Oct 12 21:11 |
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| schestowitz | They are very close. They also use Novell because it's Microsoft-'approved' | Oct 12 21:11 |
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| schestowitz | Same with other industry allies of Microsoft. | Oct 12 21:12 |
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| brunomiguel | the army of evil xD | Oct 12 21:12 |
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| schestowitz | http://fowa.phreadz.com/v/3RUDOQM3UOCH/ | Oct 12 21:15 |
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| brunomiguel | can't watch it. i don't have gnash or any other free flah implementation installed. :\ | Oct 12 21:16 |
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| brunomiguel | *flash | Oct 12 21:16 |
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| schestowitz | Yes, I know. | Oct 12 21:16 |
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| schestowitz | Sorry. | Oct 12 21:17 |
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| brunomiguel | maybe clive can download it | Oct 12 21:17 |
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| schestowitz | It's about the economy. | Oct 12 21:18 |
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| schestowitz | Context/background: http://www.tbray.org/ongoing/When/200x/... | Oct 12 21:18 |
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| zoobab | http://www.epo.org/topics/news/2008/20081009.html | Oct 12 21:20 |
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| zoobab | EPO lobbies the EU | Oct 12 21:20 |
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| schestowitz | Interesting, thanks. | Oct 12 21:22 |
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| trmanco | schestowitz, how is that M$-Mono email thing going? | Oct 12 21:23 |
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| schestowitz | No answer yes. | Oct 12 21:25 |
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| schestowitz | Tick tick. | Oct 12 21:25 |
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| trmanco | lol | Oct 12 21:25 |
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| schestowitz | Someone volunteered to do a well-researched post on Mono problems and solutions to it (replacement) | Oct 12 21:29 |
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| *trmanco has quit ("I just hit the close button :)") | Oct 12 21:33 |
| *dsmith_ (n=dsmith@c-76-114-142-224.hsd1.md.comcast.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Oct 12 21:41 |
| seller_liar | hey roy | Oct 12 22:03 |
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| seller_liar | m$ releases M , a new programming language based in.......XAML! | Oct 12 22:03 |
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| schestowitz | Meh. | Oct 12 22:05 |
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| schestowitz | Linux has just been renamed "L" ;-0 | Oct 12 22:05 |
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| schestowitz | And Microsoft renamed embedded Windows... because changing a name will /REALLY/ makes Linux nervous where it already dominates. ;-) | Oct 12 22:06 |
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| schestowitz | Nowadays in Digg people vote just for Linux fanboism and MS bashing. Eve the site's founder is concerned about it. It's no hub for news. | Oct 12 22:10 |
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| seller_liar | patents and proprietary software have a lot of coincidences | Oct 12 22:30 |
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| seller_liar | the two EXPECT to make millions | Oct 12 22:30 |
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| MinceR | you forgot the crApple bias. | Oct 12 22:30 |
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| seller_liar | is different to gain million with work | Oct 12 22:31 |
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| schestowitz | It's perceived value | Oct 12 22:31 |
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| seller_liar | for example | Oct 12 22:31 |
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| schestowitz | Watch the talk from Tim Bray. It's very good. | Oct 12 22:31 |
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| schestowitz | very timely. | Oct 12 22:31 |
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| *brunomiguel has quit ("asta la mañana :)") | Oct 12 22:31 |
| MinceR | gn | Oct 12 22:31 |
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| seller_liar | i make a very good software no matter I pay for this ,but later I will price my software 1000000x of cost | Oct 12 22:32 |
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| schestowitz | gn. A lot of things are valued by belief, e.g. certificates versus something hard like food of fuel. | Oct 12 22:32 |
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| seller_liar | patents and proprietary software gives the price control for owners ,not for users | Oct 12 22:33 |
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| *schestowitz thinks of those 1960s-like shows where Little Johnny "made a patent" and "made a million". Ahhh.. the daze [sic] of Hollywood dreamin' | Oct 12 22:33 |
| benJIman | twitter: Well debian and ubuntu already did. And as I already said, upstream has ooxml support too, it wasn't introduced in the fork. | Oct 12 22:36 |
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| seller_liar | hey roy did you understand my ideas about charles and bertrand? | Oct 12 22:36 |
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| schestowitz | Yes, thanks. | Oct 12 22:42 |
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| schestowitz | You could state this in public. | Oct 12 22:42 |
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| seller_liar | you can copy my dialog for the public ,but delete some names from there | Oct 12 22:48 |
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| seller_liar | or change the names for seller_liar | Oct 12 22:50 |
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| seller_liar | for example seller_liar is stupid! | Oct 12 22:50 |
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| seller_liar | "I will teach some tips for destroy seller_liar | Oct 12 22:51 |
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| **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Oct 12 22:59:11 2008 |
| **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Oct 12 22:59:11 2008 |
| twitter | ick, benjie, you are right. http://packages.debian.org/testing/editor... | Oct 12 23:30 |
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| twitter | I don't often use OO much less keep up with it's development. | Oct 12 23:31 |
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| *BillyCrook_ (n=BillyCro@unaffiliated/billycrook) has joined #boycottnovell | Oct 12 23:31 |
| benJIman | twitter: And go-oo didn't introduce ooxml, it is in upstream. | Oct 12 23:31 |
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| benJIman | twitter: And mono is not required by go-oo. | Oct 12 23:31 |
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| benJIman | So in summary, the entire article is incorrect. | Oct 12 23:31 |
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| twitter | No, OO.org is still a trap. I imagine the strategy is to take what it gives and tell M$ FU when they come knocking. | Oct 12 23:31 |
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| twitter | ha ha. | Oct 12 23:32 |
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| twitter | They won't be around much longer anyway. | Oct 12 23:32 |
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| *BillyCrook_ (n=BillyCro@unaffiliated/billycrook) has left #boycottnovell | Oct 12 23:44 |
