IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: October 17th, 2008

Dr. Roy Schestowitz

2008-10-18 08:11:53 UTC
Modified: 2008-10-18 14:09:40 UTC

jose	every so often my nvidia does just that.. binary driver.. haven't used that pc recently though.. this one is ati or intel motherboard gpu	Oct 17 00:09
jose	i had a high school phys ed teacher once that graded solely based on improvements. That is the way to do it.	Oct 17 00:40
jose	striving for a definite goal post is great for those that are most motivated, but fundamentally, it all boils down to self improvements step after step	Oct 17 00:41
jose	definite goal post meaning a universal goal post relative to your peers.. vs. a goal post meaningful only to yourself	Oct 17 00:42
jose	anyway, that's what that quote reminded me of... irc.. the time sink	Oct 17 00:42
schestowitz	What does it relate to?	Oct 17 00:42
jose	version 1 sucks but eventually they get better and "rule"	Oct 17 00:42
schestowitz	About NVidia, I think it's a physical flaw. I still sit about 1 meter away from my displays..	Oct 17 00:43
jose	"make small improvements every day" is part of the website url that you posted	Oct 17 00:43
jose	nothing to do with nvidia	Oct 17 00:43
jose	the topic right before that	Oct 17 00:43
jose	bob parson person	Oct 17 00:44
schestowitz	I registered my domain for 10 years. Domains are 'unique'/universal, hosts are not. I hateGoDaddy because of things I hear. {It's a Trap!!!}^TM	Oct 17 00:44
schestowitz	My cousin had Parson spam all the customers to pimp his blog.	Oct 17 00:44
schestowitz	I'll never forget it.	Oct 17 00:44
jose	whose this parson fella?	Oct 17 00:44
schestowitz	The Boss who thinks he's also a pimp.	Oct 17 00:45
schestowitz	Just watch his homepage.	Oct 17 00:45
schestowitz	And the ads.	Oct 17 00:45
jose	i only recently got a domain name.. despite knowing about godaddy's deal i went with them as an informal recommendation.. i don't plan on renewing.. haven't used the stuff i'm paying for	Oct 17 00:46
jose	your cousin got "the boss" to do that.. i guess your cousin isn't john smith nobody.	Oct 17 00:46
schestowitz	No, he lives in Florida though.	Oct 17 00:47
jose	then he must be a great guy/gal	Oct 17 00:48
schestowitz	He bought like 20 domains from GoDaddy.	Oct 17 00:48
jose	:-)	Oct 17 00:48
schestowitz	Waste of money.	Oct 17 00:48
jose	especially if they got parked on windows	Oct 17 00:48
jose	yeah, wonder what got betto so upset. hasn't replied yet.	Oct 17 00:48
schestowitz	Maybe it's like Alex. If I say white, he'll say black. If I say black, he must say white.	Oct 17 00:50
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twitter	schestowitz: I think my GPU is bad. Gone semi dark for a moment.	Oct 17 01:03
twitter	Check cable.	Oct 17 01:03
twitter	if/when that fails, replace card/cards.	Oct 17 01:04
twitter	$ talks, bs walks... http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206...	Oct 17 01:04
twitter	Nice how providing a service actually pays.	Oct 17 01:06
jose	that didn't sound like alex to me.. i have seen other people come on saying "prove it prove it" with arms waving all over. that's what i was reminded of	Oct 17 01:29
jose	i'll be going soon.	Oct 17 01:30
twitter	night night	Oct 17 01:36
twitter	AMD did well .... http://www.reuters.com/article/rb...	Oct 17 01:37
twitter	IBM did well ... http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5idso...	Oct 17 01:38
twitter	http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/ibm-e...	Oct 17 01:38
jose	ibm is high, but amd is poised to rise and rise if things work out.. i though maybe today could be when they break but i got the impression after hour trading went null or something	Oct 17 01:52
twitter	It's just interesting to see the results after all the FUD.	Oct 17 01:55
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MinceR	r4wr	Oct 17 05:58
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schestowitz	http://technocrat.net/d/2008/10/16/51978 : $3 Trillion MIGHT be enough	Oct 17 08:28
schestowitz	http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2008/10/1... : Yahoo Cutting 3,500 Jobs?	Oct 17 08:30
schestowitz	Markets recuperte though: http://finance.yahoo.com/intlindices?e=europe	Oct 17 08:33
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schestowitz	Was software responsible for the financial crisis? : http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2008/oct/16/c...	Oct 17 08:44
schestowitz	http://www.pcworld.com/article/152389/.html?tk=rss_news "The FBI said it had infiltrated online "carder" forums hosted on the DarkMarket.ws Web site, which was widely used by online scammers to buy and sell stolen credit card numbers, other financial information, and even the devices used to make fake banking cards. Before it was shut down earlier this month, the Web site had registered more than 2,500 members."	Oct 17 09:02
schestowitz	Microsoft "Innovates" Again - By Copying GNU/Linux: http://opendotdotdot.blogspot.com/2008/10...	Oct 17 09:36
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schestowitz	The Microsofters flood the press with Mono/.NET hype ('thanks' to Novell): http://reddevnews.com/news/devnews/ar... http://www.builderau.com.au/program/dotnet/soa/Mo...	Oct 17 11:35
schestowitz	LOL Reconstructor: create your own Ubuntu spin off : http://osgeex.blogspot.com/2008/10/reco...	Oct 17 11:42
PetoKraus	nice	Oct 17 11:50
PetoKraus	nomo linux :)	Oct 17 11:54
schestowitz	Novell mantra: Mo' .NET, No Mo' Linux	Oct 17 11:58
schestowitz	"But within an hour of the news, Microsoft (MSFT) spokesman Frank Shaw issued an statement to retract Ballmer’s comments. “Our position hasn’t changed. Microsoft has no interest in acquiring Yahoo!; there are no discussions between the companies,” Microsoft said. "	Oct 17 11:59
schestowitz	From "Microsoft loves Yahoo, Microsoft hates Yahoo" < http://techland.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2008/10/16... >. Still Slogging Yahoo's stock, just as twitter pointed out yesterday.	Oct 17 12:00
schestowitz	Incest: "A visit to the Microsoft booth at the Gartner Symposium and ITxpo is full of subliminal messages urging technology executives to move up to more modern products." http://blogs.zdnet.com/BTL/?p=10439	Oct 17 12:13
schestowitz	This one is like MSBBC all over again (obscure consoles... yes; Linux support... no): http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article... ( Microsoft Considers Silverlight For Android, Says iPhone Not Likely )	Oct 17 12:17
schestowitz	So it's fine for Android (Linux), which nobody uses right now, but for Linux desktop it's not OK... they try to keep Linux desktops aback... same tricks with iPlayer.	Oct 17 12:17
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schestowitz	Deceiving headline there: http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Linux-and-Open-Sour...	Oct 17 12:39
schestowitz	Thoughts came to mind: "OpenLogic Sells Out to Microsoft, Promotes Windows?"	Oct 17 12:39
schestowitz	"Microsoft and OpenLogic both made moves Oct. 15 to further their open-source initiatives, with Microsoft releasing new software for Web developers and OpenLogic announcing new professional services to help companies increase their usage of open-source software."	Oct 17 12:39
schestowitz	Totally separate events though in a single article.	Oct 17 12:39
schestowitz	CyberLink, which made a lot of "Linux" noise recently, is cozying up with Microsoft: http://www.digitimes.com/NewRegister/join.asp?vi... (CyberLink becomes Microsoft's first GISV partner in Taiwan)	Oct 17 12:43
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schestowitz	SDKs and Microsoft P/Ls.... is Slashdot now a Microsoft site? http://tech.slashdot.org/tech...	Oct 17 13:03
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schestowitz	Microsoft under the guise of "helping children" (hurting Linux): http://afp.google.com/article/AL... and Microsoft PR routines to portray the company as "humanitarian" (the thief who gave a donation): http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/breakingnews/info...	Oct 17 13:11
jose	twitter: (offtopic) yesterday amd came up.. i'm not sure about them for the immediate.. it might take something like a good and untimed decision by a judge in their antitrust trial(s) with intel to get them going definitively. they do seem priced now very well historically speaking however. i really don't expect them to fold .. this comment is meant to taper the enthusiasm i expressed yesterday i think within a quick conversation wi	Oct 17 13:12
jose	th you but not sure	Oct 17 13:12
jose	schestowitz, what do you think about that alleged superpowerful attack on internet servers of all types that has not been detailed publically by two researches?	Oct 17 13:14
jose	researchers	Oct 17 13:14
schestowitz	Let me find a ref.	Oct 17 13:15
jose	it seems that open source could be very vulnerable since you need only read the source to consider weaknesses	Oct 17 13:15
jose	robertlee	Oct 17 13:15
schestowitz	Law Professor: Counter Terrorism Czar Told Me There Is Going To Be An i-9/11 And An i-Patriot Act : http://www.infowars.net/articles/august2008/050808i911.htm	Oct 17 13:15
schestowitz	More fluff escapades for PR purposes: Microsoft executive gives PU students a future tech vision < http://www.packetonline.com/articles/2008/10/... >	Oct 17 13:16
jose	i don't think foss will have a problem though. companies like red hat that maintain specific stable versions will thrive	Oct 17 13:19
jose	redmond people will always have laziness (closed source obscurity) and legacy guck to fall back on and keep their systems vulnerable	Oct 17 13:21
schestowitz	More on that fiasco from Portugal: http://www.thejournal.com/articles/23422	Oct 17 13:21
schestowitz	jose: they've just patched 4 "critical" holes.	Oct 17 13:22
jose	a sure way to an internet attack disaster (besides the worms we've had) is to keep spreading windows around	Oct 17 13:22
schestowitz	That's also a way to prevent a ban/embargo on Windows.	Oct 17 13:23
jose	some people want such an attack and would appreciate windows being there	Oct 17 13:23
schestowitz	Some nations have thought about it, but if Microsoft can get enough people addicted to it (not twitching or anything), then a quarantine of a large scale becomes impractical.	Oct 17 13:24
schestowitz	jose: no, that's a reality already.	Oct 17 13:24
schestowitz	Almost every week there's a massive DDOS attack arriving from Windows botnets.	Oct 17 13:24
jose	looking at the lessig link you gave..	Oct 17 13:25
schestowitz	Even DNS came under attack some times in the past. If the cybercriminal want to, they can knock down the whole Internet now (through the backbone).	Oct 17 13:25
schestowitz	jose: grain of salt re: the link; it's from the Alex Jones types.	Oct 17 13:25
jose	"An i-9/11, as described by Lawrence Lessig, would provide the perfect pretext to implement such restrictions in one swift motion, as well as provide the justification for relegating and eliminating specific content and information on the web."	Oct 17 13:25
jose	ok	Oct 17 13:25
schestowitz	Or technology I assume.. not just content.	Oct 17 13:27
schestowitz	N. Dakota Judge rules that "host -l" command constitutes hacking - http://www.downloadsquad.com/2008/01/17/n...	Oct 17 13:27
schestowitz	Animal Rights Activists Forced to Hand Over Encryption Keys - http://www.schneier.com/blog/a...	Oct 17 13:28
schestowitz	UK gov sets rules for hacker tool ban - http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/01/0...	Oct 17 13:28
schestowitz	German Security Professionals in the Mist - http://www.beskerming.com/commentary/2007/08...	Oct 17 13:28
schestowitz	BitTorrent Admin Monitored by US Government, Forced to Dump Linux - http://torrentfreak.com/bittorrent-admin-mon...	Oct 17 13:28
schestowitz	Lots of rumours this week about Microsoft buying (wanting to buy?) RIM.	Oct 17 13:29
schestowitz	Microsoft reveals critical holes in Active Directory, mainframe gateway - http://www.networkworld.com/news/2008/101408-s...	Oct 17 13:31
schestowitz	Wait until some supercomputers are hijacked too because they run Windows.	Oct 17 13:31
schestowitz	Some people actually fall for it... http://www.9wsyr.com/content/news/real_dea...	Oct 17 13:42
jose	ms is giving the internet a bad name	Oct 17 14:14
schestowitz	Protocols are poor too.	Oct 17 14:15
schestowitz	That said, the issue with DNS hacks, for instance, is largely exacerbated by the existence of malware (Windows).	Oct 17 14:15
schestowitz	To visit and render a Web page should not be a danger, unless ActiveX and such stuff comes into play.	Oct 17 14:16
jose	instead of strengthening the internet, they want to weaken legal but strong linux for example	Oct 17 14:18
schestowitz	The issue of liability returned last week (or two weeks ago).	Oct 17 14:20
Tallken	it's all about profit	Oct 17 14:21
schestowitz	The Register returned to this question, which I think was raised in parliament.	Oct 17 14:21
schestowitz	Profit now, products NOW, secrity later.	Oct 17 14:21
Tallken	the usual	Oct 17 14:22
jose	as long as microsoft is the yard stick, linux is going to suffer from being misunderstood	Oct 17 14:22
Tallken	nope, as long as Linux keeps gaining users, sooner or later a company able to compete with MS is going to arise	Oct 17 14:23
Tallken	just make sure that company uses GPL-v3	Oct 17 14:23
Tallken	just in case	Oct 17 14:24
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schestowitz	I'm stuck in a hyperbole with Alex on the issue of Mono: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/10/16/...	Oct 17 14:25
schestowitz	What amazes me is that he defends Silverlight. Who on earth, especially as a Linux user, defend the ruining of the Web with binary vendor-specific 'browsers'?	Oct 17 14:26
jose	alex makes it hard sometimes to trust that he is being genuine	Oct 17 14:27
jose	you get torn between keeping gloves on or taking them off	Oct 17 14:27
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Tallken	well it's simple	Oct 17 14:29
Tallken	there is the road to the success to Linux which 100km long and absolutely safe	Oct 17 14:30
Tallken	the one which is 50km long but has a few bad segments	Oct 17 14:30
Tallken	and the 10 km long which is doomed	Oct 17 14:30
Tallken	most people think the 50km road is safe enough	Oct 17 14:30
Tallken	not hard to understand	Oct 17 14:30
Tallken	ah and some people doubt the 100km long road exists	Oct 17 14:31
jose	are we almost there yet pappa smurf	Oct 17 14:32
jose	swoosh.. right over my head	Oct 17 14:32
jose	:-)	Oct 17 14:32
jose	i guess i'm just not up for that much thinking this morning	Oct 17 14:32
schestowitz	Microsoft or the highway?!?!	Oct 17 14:33
Tallken	didn't understand the pappa smurf thing?	Oct 17 14:33
Tallken	the could be a nice Limp Bizkit song	Oct 17 14:33
Tallken	more or like that	Oct 17 14:33
Tallken	allow binary modules == 10 km	Oct 17 14:33
Tallken	allow 'minor' parts binary == 50 km	Oct 17 14:33
Tallken	FSF in charge == 100 km	Oct 17 14:33
jose	alex seems to know too much on some things yet remains fairly quite on others	Oct 17 14:34
jose	and he persists	Oct 17 14:34
jose	alex are you listening?	Oct 17 14:34
jose	alexh	Oct 17 14:34
Tallken	"Microsoft or the highway?!?!" the could be a nice Limp Bizkit song == that could be a nice Limp Bizkit song	Oct 17 14:35
schestowitz	jose: I think he reads the logs. He refers to them.	Oct 17 14:35
Tallken	then "Hi AlexH" :P	Oct 17 14:35
jose	i don't like talking behind people's back.. that's why i said that	Oct 17 14:35
schestowitz	Microsoft's attitude has for long been: "Either you're with us or against us"	Oct 17 14:35
schestowitz	The funny thing is that they use labels like "anti-Microsoft"	Oct 17 14:36
Tallken	schestowitz: it undoubtedfully works	Oct 17 14:36
Tallken	the attitude	Oct 17 14:36
schestowitz	Moreover, they try to describe others (FOSS, Apple) as 'cults', refusing to see their own behaviour and internal (leaked) memos.	Oct 17 14:36
schestowitz	MS mantra: Microsoft runs the world; everyone else.... _just stands in the way_	Oct 17 14:37
Tallken	well Apple not so much now	Oct 17 14:37
schestowitz	You can compete with Microsoft? You must be cancer	Oct 17 14:37
Tallken	it's getting too popular	Oct 17 14:37
schestowitz	The dept. of Defence chooses FOSS... ti must therefore be "communism"	Oct 17 14:37
Tallken	marketing, so beautiful ^^	Oct 17 14:38
schestowitz	It's very polarised.	Oct 17 14:38
schestowitz	But it's the HYPOCRISY that's stunning.	Oct 17 14:38
schestowitz	Microsoft: wait wait!! You can't let Yahoo collaborate with Google. No!! Waaa!!! [throws toy out the pram]	Oct 17 14:38
schestowitz	Week later: Ballmer, convicted monopolist, wants to buy Yahoo to ruin and destroy Google, i.e. eliminate competition. That's fair!	Oct 17 14:39
Tallken	schestowitz: world is not logic	Oct 17 14:39
Tallken	you should know that	Oct 17 14:39
schestowitz	Logic is controlled by those controlling the government.	Oct 17 14:39
jose	logic is "do what we have to do to win"	Oct 17 14:40
Tallken	logic is nuts	Oct 17 14:40
schestowitz	As long as the 90s cronies of Microsoft stay in DoJ and White House, there's littyle chance for justice.	Oct 17 14:40
Tallken	for example have you noticed the left is very liberal in the social aspect and very strict on economic movement	Oct 17 14:40
Tallken	and the right is the opposite?	Oct 17 14:40
Tallken	just thought of it the other day	Oct 17 14:40
Tallken	it's funny :D	Oct 17 14:40
schestowitz	As Lessig would attest, the parliament and entire system needs to be washed up from the bottom to the top. It's too filled with bribes (campaign contributions, pet charities, etc.) and crooks.	Oct 17 14:41
jose	people don't like to lose their jobs or power.. accept money and you can stay longer	Oct 17 14:42
Tallken	it's man nature	Oct 17 14:42
schestowitz	The issue is that even an economical critis won't impeaches and rid the system of the poison that runs through its blood. It might actually make things worse because politicians beg for more funds (bribes), so they are more corruptible and easily inclines to return favours to megacorps.	Oct 17 14:42
Tallken	just get more power so you can ensure noone else screws up	Oct 17 14:43
Tallken	goint to lunch :D	Oct 17 14:43
schestowitz	With a lobyist?	Oct 17 14:45
jose	roy, giving benefit of some amount of doubt, foss devs in general won't take too kindly to being told there are patents here there and everywhere	Oct 17 14:50
jose	alex, for example	Oct 17 14:50
jose	it's an abridgment of right to create.. even if the patent was legit, which many times you might find it isn't or there could be work arounds	Oct 17 14:51
jose	you are talking about hobby but also about livelihood	Oct 17 14:52
jose	if you happen to need to use something or really have a business built up on it.. wishy washy patent threats aren't going to stop you	Oct 17 14:53
jose	and foss devs need/want others to help out, so maybe you can see that you won't be alex' favorite person by pushing patent FUD defense	Oct 17 14:54
jose	the prob i have is the insistence on ms technologies.. i mean why? that is not a patent thing because even something similar would violate alleged patents	Oct 17 14:55
jose	ok, the more dissimilar the less likely, but the point remains that why stick precisely to ms' guidebars	Oct 17 14:56
MinceR	well, crApple _is_ a cult... but so is m$	Oct 17 14:56
jose	and even if you deviate a little.. why stick overall so close?	Oct 17 14:56
jose	i think this has to do with novell seizing what it believes to be an opportunity	Oct 17 14:56
jose	and alex and others being along for the ride (not accusing him of working for novell but maybe others are or are close enough)	Oct 17 14:57
schestowitz	Yes, that has always been the case.	Oct 17 14:58
schestowitz	Novell sees some money in Microsoft and hopes to gets a share. But it was desperate.	Oct 17 14:58
MinceR	all aboard the fail train	Oct 17 14:59
jose	the problem i would have with alex and others is deception..	Oct 17 14:59
jose	would be deception	Oct 17 15:00
jose	on their part.	Oct 17 15:00
jose	the history of ms is right there	Oct 17 15:01
jose	i would expect some amount of rationalization to explain away why this time things are different	Oct 17 15:01
jose	would be different	Oct 17 15:01
jose	but all i hear is silence on the issue	Oct 17 15:01
jose	i don't care if person x or y decides to do whatever, but he and others persist on attacking you and defending novell etc relatively	Oct 17 15:02
jose	ms must love the idea of being able to listen in on the enemies conversations.. BN must provide quite a show	Oct 17 15:02
schestowitz	Well, they read it.	Oct 17 15:05
*Tallken decides to troll a bit		Oct 17 15:15
Tallken	well if we've that kind of audience	Oct 17 15:15
Tallken	HI MUM! I'M HERE!	Oct 17 15:15
*Tallken ends the trolling		Oct 17 15:15
Tallken	it's normal	Oct 17 15:15
Tallken	maybe RMS is watching us :D	Oct 17 15:15
schestowitz	He doesn't use IRC, I don't think so.	Oct 17 15:16
schestowitz	He doesn't even browser the Web.	Oct 17 15:16
schestowitz	browse	Oct 17 15:16
Tallken	judging by his webpage, I'm not surprised...	Oct 17 15:16
Tallken	Linus doesn't, he probably doesn't care as long as they let him work and don't kill his work	Oct 17 15:16
Tallken	most people don't regard Mono as a threat	Oct 17 15:17
schestowitz	It's being rebuffed.	Oct 17 15:17
Tallken	I honestly doubt MS will use patents on public view	Oct 17 15:17
Tallken	they use it probably on companies	Oct 17 15:18
Tallken	and on OEMs	Oct 17 15:18
Tallken	and that way they get away with it... probably	Oct 17 15:18
schestowitz	Well, the thing is, as soon as someone expresses resentment for Mono (with legitimate reasons), the Mono Patrol(R) shows up in the scene and shoot the messenger/message relentlessly.	Oct 17 15:18
Tallken	lulz	Oct 17 15:18
schestowitz	Just watch how they 'trashed' Glyn's article... or Alan Lord... they have to have the last word.	Oct 17 15:18
schestowitz	Microsoft, 2007: Linux violates out patents.	Oct 17 15:19
schestowitz	Linux: WTF? What patents? LOL	Oct 17 15:19
Tallken	anyway they got sloppy, MS has to revamp Windows before it can turn their attention to Linux	Oct 17 15:19
schestowitz	Microsoft: no comment.	Oct 17 15:19
schestowitz	Linux: hey, what about those threats, you monopolist?	Oct 17 15:19
schestowitz	Microsoft: no comment.	Oct 17 15:19
Tallken	FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD	Oct 17 15:19
Tallken	nothing new	Oct 17 15:19
schestowitz	[Mono makes way into Linux]	Oct 17 15:19
schestowitz	Microsoft 201x: Linux violates our patents.	Oct 17 15:20
Tallken	lulz	Oct 17 15:20
schestowitz	Linux: LOL. Where?	Oct 17 15:20
schestowitz	Microsoft. There.	Oct 17 15:20
schestowitz	Microsoft: There. [points to Mono /]	Oct 17 15:20
schestowitz	Linux: so what?	Oct 17 15:20
schestowitz	Microsoft: pay up or remove it.	Oct 17 15:20
schestowitz	Linux: we can't remove it. it's ALL OVER THE BL00DY desktop.	Oct 17 15:20
Tallken	then pay	Oct 17 15:21
Tallken	lol	Oct 17 15:21
Tallken	the thing is, patents are seen as the equivalent of WMD of software world	Oct 17 15:21
Tallken	everyone has them	Oct 17 15:21
MinceR	at least that's the way m$ marketing imagines it	Oct 17 15:21
MinceR	Tallken: exactly	Oct 17 15:21
Tallken	noone wants to use them	Oct 17 15:21
MinceR	m$ would be immediately threatened by others	Oct 17 15:21
schestowitz	It's expensive to sue.	Oct 17 15:21
schestowitz	Let alone to defend a patent.	Oct 17 15:21
MinceR	but still, i say fuck them and mono.	Oct 17 15:22
schestowitz	Some companies just issue a crease-fire/	Oct 17 15:22
schestowitz	They regret suing using patents.	Oct 17 15:22
schestowitz	Unless...	Oct 17 15:22
schestowitz	They can get peaceful settlements... Microsoft has cross-licensing deals... many of them, including with Novell.	Oct 17 15:22
Tallken	one more reason to get GPL-v3 going around	Oct 17 15:22
schestowitz	Microsoft makes money doing nothing... just pointing blidnly to a pile of paper.	Oct 17 15:22
schestowitz	Same with trolls like Myhrvold and IV.	Oct 17 15:23
schestowitz	Or acacia.	Oct 17 15:23
schestowitz	MinceR: that sounds funny ("i say fuck them and mono.")	Oct 17 15:23
schestowitz	You do realise that mono is a STD, right?	Oct 17 15:24
MinceR	now i do	Oct 17 15:24
schestowitz	Sexually transmitted disease.	Oct 17 15:24
Tallken	lulz	Oct 17 15:25
Tallken	you can't criticise others for using "communism" and "cancer" and then use STD, schestowitz!!!	Oct 17 15:25
Tallken	:D	Oct 17 15:25
schestowitz	Well, it's a different mono, not the monkey.	Oct 17 15:27
MinceR	yes he can	Oct 17 15:27
MinceR	whatever fundies may say, facts are not opinions.	Oct 17 15:28
jose	Tallken, their use of patents on eoms and others serves to marginalize linux.. to keep hardware secrets at bay for example and preloads off and boot secrets closed etc	Oct 17 15:31
jose	the "fud" also puts microsoft in a position ultimately to control commercial linux. this will lead to the free stuff being of marginal utility	Oct 17 15:32
jose	Tallken, ms has to revamp windows. so we let them get that done while we then prepare their table? no, if anything, we can expect things to get more difficult for us if we aren't aggressive.	Oct 17 15:33
Tallken	jose: true	Oct 17 15:33
Tallken	thing is	Oct 17 15:34
Tallken	you can't stop people developing using a "bad" toolkit	Oct 17 15:34
Tallken	either clone it	Oct 17 15:34
Tallken	or clone the apps using that toolkit	Oct 17 15:34
schestowitz	Don't forget the Dell/Microsoft(Novell) Linux deal	Oct 17 15:34
Tallken	link?	Oct 17 15:34
schestowitz	The OEMs might already be pressured by Microsoft to pay for Linux preinstalls	Oct 17 15:34
Tallken	please	Oct 17 15:34
Tallken	nothing surprising	Oct 17 15:35
schestowitz	Hold on.	Oct 17 15:35
Tallken	make money be one less thing that gives advantage to Linux	Oct 17 15:35
schestowitz	Here's a summary (old): http://boycottnovell.com/2007/08/27/novel...	Oct 17 15:36
schestowitz	Here is a recent important observation about timing: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/08/...	Oct 17 15:36
jose	Tallken, I agree. We aren't a police force. this is about dessiminating information.	Oct 17 15:37
jose	disemminating	Oct 17 15:37
schestowitz	But the regulators are still asleep.	Oct 17 15:38
schestowitz	What good is evidence of crime if nobody takes note or listens? Watch the OOXML corruptions.	Oct 17 15:39
Tallken	<sarcasm> lol ya it's much more important to forbid "hacker tools" </sarcasm>	Oct 17 15:40
jose	i'm big on getting linux marketed .. the idea is to have people know and understand in their own way..	Oct 17 15:40
jose	this site is helpful to authorities perhaps but also to people. people ultimately are what matter	Oct 17 15:41
schestowitz	Tallken: hacker tools enable access to evidence of corruption, among other things.	Oct 17 15:41
jose	hacker tools are research	Oct 17 15:41
jose	if you don't do it, they will	Oct 17 15:41
jose	the criminals will	Oct 17 15:41
jose	if you don't discover something first	Oct 17 15:42
schestowitz	I love the explanations about hyporcrisy which say that there are "big criminals" (bit boats) and "small criminals" (pirates), but only the small guys can ever be vilified and jailed.	Oct 17 15:42
schestowitz	That's to do with governments that engage in crimes against humanity, for instance, while jailing those who protest unnecessary wars.	Oct 17 15:42
Tallken	I honestly think people should stop pirating things	Oct 17 15:44
schestowitz	"pirating"?	Oct 17 15:45
schestowitz	Arrrrrrr you using propaganda terms?	Oct 17 15:45
Tallken	hum	Oct 17 15:45
MinceR	lol	Oct 17 15:45
*MinceR likes that term		Oct 17 15:45
MinceR	arrrr!	Oct 17 15:45
Tallken	it's correct isn't it?	Oct 17 15:46
Tallken	I got kinda confused	Oct 17 15:46
Tallken	sometimes I "englishize" portuguese words so I was double checking lol	Oct 17 15:47
MinceR	well, it's meant to have negative connotations	Oct 17 15:47
MinceR	but i think it fails at that, considering that they even had to invent a new logo for hazardous substances because the Jolly Roger is inviting to children :>	Oct 17 15:48
Tallken	?	Oct 17 15:48
MinceR	also, we have Talk Like A Pirate Day	Oct 17 15:48
*Tallken gotta work, will be back in ~30 mins to check the chat		Oct 17 15:48
MinceR	what are you asking about?	Oct 17 15:48
MinceR	the new logo?	Oct 17 15:48
MinceR	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mr...	Oct 17 15:49
jose	i had not seen mr yuk before ..."Mr. Yuk is a trademarked graphic image, created by the Children's Hospital of Pittsburgh, and widely employed in the United States " ??	Oct 17 15:51
schestowitz	Maybe it's patented by Microsoft.	Oct 17 15:54
jose	You have to be a Microsoft Kid to see it	Oct 17 15:55
jose	Microsoft Kid TM	Oct 17 15:55
schestowitz	Patent from Microsoft... on emoticons	Oct 17 15:55
jose	I like Red Hat Kid TM more	Oct 17 15:55
schestowitz	Microsoft frowned at for smiley patent : http://news.zdnet.co.uk/itmanage...	Oct 17 15:56
schestowitz	Maybe because the kid is frowning, then there's no violation.	Oct 17 15:56
schestowitz	Boy, I'm scared. Microsoft owns some keys on my keyboard, it owns my facial impressions ( :-( :-( ).... the court too will hold these 10000 or so Microsoft patents.	Oct 17 15:57
twitter	Owns your keys? I thought some guy at IBM invented ctrl-alt-delete.	Oct 17 16:00
schestowitz	Microsoft made it famous	Oct 17 16:00
twitter	You need a keyboard without those nasty little windows and menu keys.	Oct 17 16:01
schestowitz	http://uk.youtube.com/watch?...	Oct 17 16:01
schestowitz	I was talking about PgDn/Up too... I was being cynical.	Oct 17 16:01
twitter	oh yeah, I forgot about the new page up patent.	Oct 17 16:02
twitter	Thanks USPTO	Oct 17 16:02
twitter	That's a great movie. Gates was so pissed.	Oct 17 16:04
twitter	:) now I know exactly what he thinks of Slashdot.	Oct 17 16:04
schestowitz	I hope to see some jail time: http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/microsoft/...	Oct 17 16:05
schestowitz	From the two mobster CEOs that brought you OLPC charity slog.	Oct 17 16:05
schestowitz	They made a phonecall... arranging a collusion I assume.	Oct 17 16:06
twitter	Thinking of M$ and "super computers" I was told the soft had been making inroads in medical work, specifically cancer treatment.	Oct 17 16:10
schestowitz	http://www.pcworld.com/article/...	Oct 17 16:11
schestowitz	"Hackers have released code that could be used to take control of a server running Microsoft's Host Integration Server 2006, used to connect mainframe applications to Windows PCs."	Oct 17 16:11
schestowitz	I posted to this USENET a minute ago. Microsoft Mainframe Servers Become Zombies	Oct 17 16:11
twitter	Security problems are obvious, it would just be another botnet captured easily.	Oct 17 16:12
twitter	Why medical vendors started using it is not. It seems to have something to do with FDA approval keeping things ten years behind and some early DOS work by one or two vendors.	Oct 17 16:13
twitter	10 years ago people were using non free Unix. That market fell to M$.	Oct 17 16:13
twitter	But it still makes no sense, 10 years ago GNU/Linux was almost as obvious a choice for clustering as it is today.	Oct 17 16:14
twitter	There have been several security incidents with hospitals and M$, you would think they would learn.	Oct 17 16:15
twitter	Propaganda that blames the user seems to be effective.	Oct 17 16:15
Tallken	in 98 I had started to hear about Linux	Oct 17 16:15
Tallken	and net was not as easily accessible as today	Oct 17 16:15
schestowitz	Blaming the user. That's a classic.	Oct 17 16:16
schestowitz	Computers are just not secure.	Oct 17 16:16
twitter	NASA was way out in front with Beowolf clusters by 1998.	Oct 17 16:16
schestowitz	It's all just innate... to do with users.	Oct 17 16:16
schestowitz	And the Internet is "dangerous"	Oct 17 16:16
schestowitz	White is Black and Black is White. Operating system come in 7 flavours...................... of Vista.	Oct 17 16:17
twitter	M$'s usual defense, "no software is better than ours," is patently absurd.	Oct 17 16:17
Tallken	patently	Oct 17 16:19
*Tallken shudders		Oct 17 16:19
Tallken	the P-word	Oct 17 16:19
schestowitz	"Everything else is equally insecure"... "every other large company is equally corrupt"... "all computers just crash"... "SPAM is unavoidable"...	Oct 17 16:22
twitter	" Ballmer tacitly conceded that Google Apps are hurting Microsoft in at least one area. University students, who are "the leading edge of all consumerization phenomena" use Office but "when it comes to sharing stuff they use Google Apps, which is why we're moving to Office Live," he said."	Oct 17 16:22
twitter	http://www.internetnews.com/software/article....	Oct 17 16:23
twitter	ha ha	Oct 17 16:23
twitter	When people use things to share, the other stuff falls off.	Oct 17 16:23
twitter	M$ has been dumping their stuff at Universities, but it's still a pain compared to Google.	Oct 17 16:23
schestowitz	twitter: they do it in Africa now.	Oct 17 16:25
schestowitz	I was going to wite about this later.	Oct 17 16:25
schestowitz	I have so much stuff to cover in BN, but haven't even started yet (none today)	Oct 17 16:25
twitter	:) relax	Oct 17 16:26
schestowitz	Death of Microsoft MSN Groups is Confirmed : http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/c...	Oct 17 16:26
twitter	poof!	Oct 17 16:26
twitter	everything M$ does that eventually.	Oct 17 16:28
twitter	gotta get some stuff done for a while, keep up the good work.	Oct 17 16:28
jose	later	Oct 17 16:29
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PetoKraus	hehe, it's funny how beranger pushes mint right now	Oct 17 17:10
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MinceR	180551 <@schestowitz> Microsoft made it famous	Oct 17 17:12
MinceR	patents aren't granted on fame base though :>	Oct 17 17:12
schestowitz	Yes, but did you see the video?	Oct 17 17:23
schestowitz	http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=1zADyh0JQh8	Oct 17 17:23
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_Doug	Toys 'R' US selling Eee PCs in Stores ..	Oct 17 17:24
_Doug	512MB ram, 8GB solid storage	Oct 17 17:24
_Doug	Windows XP or Linux versions	Oct 17 17:24
_Doug	Over 40 applications	Oct 17 17:24
_Doug	Openoffice	Oct 17 17:24
_Doug	Skype, Webcam & Mic	Oct 17 17:25
_Doug	7 8.9 10 inch display	Oct 17 17:25
_Doug	advert Oct 17, Daily Telegraph	Oct 17 17:25
MinceR	ironic	Oct 17 17:26
MinceR	now you can get a real computer at toys'r'us and a toy computer at apple	Oct 17 17:26
schestowitz	lol	Oct 17 17:27
schestowitz	Well, both ASUXANDROS and WinXP are toys.	Oct 17 17:27
schestowitz	It's possible to replace it though, but I think it requires Windows for 'reflashing' (SSD).	Oct 17 17:28
_Doug	All for €£179 ..	Oct 17 17:28
_Doug	What's the markup for billg on these machines ?	Oct 17 17:29
MinceR	it's a real computer compared to apple stuff though	Oct 17 17:36
_Doug	Apples are good .. don't knock them ..	Oct 17 17:39
_Doug	schestowitz: find out the markup for the software on thse machines ..	Oct 17 17:40
_Doug	what's the price difference between XP and Linux ?	Oct 17 17:41
_Doug	Post on it on BN ...	Oct 17 17:41
_Doug	benJIman, how about an OpenSUSE version ?	Oct 17 17:41
schestowitz	€£179 is ripoff.	Oct 17 17:42
_Doug	how ?	Oct 17 17:42
schestowitz	Although Maplin is equally bad.	Oct 17 17:42
_Doug	It's good for Toys R Us ..	Oct 17 17:42
_Doug	:)	Oct 17 17:42
schestowitz	_Doug: I posted about this before.	Oct 17 17:43
_Doug	gtg ..	Oct 17 17:43
schestowitz	There's possible 'codec' tax	Oct 17 17:43
_Doug	send me the link ..	Oct 17 17:43
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MinceR	what are apples good for?	Oct 17 17:44
MinceR	keeping the wind from slamming the door?	Oct 17 17:45
MinceR	is _Doug a crApple cultist?	Oct 17 17:45
schestowitz	No.	Oct 17 17:48
schestowitz	I saw a Macbook Air at the shop	Oct 17 17:48
schestowitz	Binarised and bastardised BSD with a nice theme... seen them many times before... nothing exciting.	Oct 17 17:49
MinceR	if it was nice	Oct 17 17:49
MinceR	it's a Fisher-Price theme	Oct 17 17:49
MinceR	complete with spinning lollypops	Oct 17 17:49
schestowitz	Can it be changed? Like /radically/?	Oct 17 17:49
schestowitz	Not just to some black shades. All the Macs I see have very consistent looks.	Oct 17 17:49
MinceR	it can be skinned, if you pay for third party utilities that do it	Oct 17 17:49
schestowitz	Must be boring as hell.	Oct 17 17:49
MinceR	at least to some extent	Oct 17 17:50
schestowitz	I like experimenting with new desktops and widgets.	Oct 17 17:50
MinceR	and i presume it can destabilize the system like doing the same on winblows	Oct 17 17:50
MinceR	crApple cultists don't like experimenting	Oct 17 17:50
MinceR	crApple cultists don't like variety -- it confuses the hell out of them	Oct 17 17:50
schestowitz	Like... I installed superkaramba some weeks ago. Then AWN.... some of them I took off for now... then tried some Metisse while on vacation.	Oct 17 17:50
MinceR	they don't recognize the menu if it's in a different color	Oct 17 17:50
schestowitz	XP can be assimilated to Vista... just shows how similar they are. Skin's surface.... +DRM.	Oct 17 17:51
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_Doug	?	Oct 17 19:43
trmanco	?	Oct 17 19:45
schestowitz	Hi again.	Oct 17 19:47
_Doug	hi there ..	Oct 17 19:50
trmanco	hmm	Oct 17 19:50
trmanco	Hi	Oct 17 19:50
jose	OK	Oct 17 19:51
_Doug	Ballmer: wait for Windows 7	Oct 17 19:52
_Doug	http://www.builderau.com.au/news/print.htm...	Oct 17 19:52
_Doug	"Our next release of Windows will be compatible with Vista. The key is let's get on with it. We'll be ready when you want to deploy Windows 7."	Oct 17 19:52
schestowitz	Wait for Linux 3.0	Oct 17 19:55
trmanco	schestowitz, when?	Oct 17 19:55
trmanco	:P	Oct 17 19:55
schestowitz	It'll improve performance three-fold, surpass ZFS by leaps and bounds and cook coffee for you!	Oct 17 19:55
trmanco	Good	Oct 17 19:56
trmanco	I like the coffee part	Oct 17 19:56
schestowitz	trmanco: don't ask when. Don't. Just wait. Just stay with Linux.	Oct 17 19:56
schestowitz	I'm just trying to "freeze the market," as Microsoft put it.	Oct 17 19:56
trmanco	I guess I can also adapt it to make me hot chocolate :P	Oct 17 19:56
schestowitz	No!	Oct 17 19:57
schestowitz	That's not healhy for you.	Oct 17 19:57
trmanco	why?	Oct 17 19:57
schestowitz	They tried debugging chocolate, but it ended up in kernel panics.	Oct 17 19:57
trmanco	the chocolate part :P	Oct 17 19:57
trmanco	doh	Oct 17 19:57
trmanco	hmm	Oct 17 19:57
schestowitz	You can compile it with chocolate if you want and submit kernel oops for future versions.	Oct 17 19:57
trmanco	some tea will do then	Oct 17 19:57
schestowitz	Miguel de Icaza says that Linux 4.0 will be based entirely on Mono.	Oct 17 19:58
trmanco	yeah	Oct 17 19:58
trmanco	but no	Oct 17 19:58
schestowitz	It's "da best," he says.	Oct 17 19:58
schestowitz	Da BEST!	Oct 17 19:58
trmanco	He doesn't control the Linux kernel	Oct 17 19:58
trmanco	no can do	Oct 17 19:58
trmanco	it is up to Linus	Oct 17 19:58
schestowitz	Maybe he can pull a GNOME	Oct 17 19:59
schestowitz	Like with KDE	Oct 17 19:59
schestowitz	He'll start something similar from scratch.	Oct 17 19:59
schestowitz	Call it Migix.	Oct 17 19:59
trmanco	any info of what Linus thinks of MonoPolization	Oct 17 19:59
MinceR	he could call it Xenix 2	Oct 17 19:59
schestowitz	Migix... intending to support ActiveX bootup within 5 years of development.	Oct 17 19:59
schestowitz	No, wait...	Oct 17 19:59
schestowitz	GMigix	Oct 17 19:59
schestowitz	Gotta put the G for GNU to make people feel like it's more libre	Oct 17 20:00
_Doug	gtg .. see ya ..	Oct 17 20:00
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schestowitz	.cya.	Oct 17 20:00
trmanco	ooo	Oct 17 20:01
trmanco	mogix	Oct 17 20:01
trmanco	monix	Oct 17 20:01
trmanco	how about changing Mono to Stereo?	Oct 17 20:01
schestowitz	Does ALSA support it?	Oct 17 20:04
trmanco	hmm	Oct 17 20:05
trmanco	I guess so	Oct 17 20:05
jose	ballmer: guys, if you want to skip our crap, that's ok, we'll repackage it soon so you won't be able to tell as much	Oct 17 20:10
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schestowitz	They hope that hardware manufacturers will write some more drivers for Vista.	Oct 17 20:12
schestowitz	It's the same model... they even admitted this and I could pin down articles.	Oct 17 20:12
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schestowitz	7 is just another Vista without the bad name (yet) and with some more times for h/w and s/w companies to 'catch up'	Oct 17 20:12
jose	i think over the last few months to a year, with yahoo yo-yo-ing and now dropping, that the shareholder deck has been reshuffled a bit (ie, the players have moved their chips around before the next spin of the wheel). It seems these two accept competition as the best course.	Oct 17 20:13
jose	ballmer: "It's clear Yahoo didn't want to sell. They probably still think it's worth more than US$33 a share. I still think it makes sense for their shareholders and ours."	Oct 17 20:13
trmanco	7 will have NT 6.1, I think	Oct 17 20:14
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trmanco	big deal with that *.1	Oct 17 20:14
schestowitz	jose, it's over for now.	Oct 17 20:14
schestowitz	Give me 5 minutes to do a post about it (Yahoo et al.)	Oct 17 20:15
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schestowitz	One thing I know about "7" is that it'll take ages to appear (they'll just talk about it) and have a new shiny wallpaper.	Oct 17 20:15
schestowitz	Lipstick on a Vista.	Oct 17 20:15
jose	oooh, lucky "7"	Oct 17 20:16
jose	that one will wet its bed.. that will be the next trick Microsoft will try.. urinating on command.	Oct 17 20:17
MinceR	so they'll play FATAL? :>	Oct 17 20:18
schestowitz	jose: here is that post I told you I would do: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/10/17/m...	Oct 17 20:46
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trmanco	http://www.phoronix.com/scan.p...	Oct 17 21:56
schestowitz	Yes.	Oct 17 21:57
schestowitz	I have been calling it Linux 2008.10 for a while...	Oct 17 21:57
schestowitz	I assumed it was bound to happen sooner or later.	Oct 17 21:57
schestowitz	2008.7 (2.6.26)	Oct 17 21:57
PetoKraus	if that's the most important thing kernel devs have to do	Oct 17 22:01
schestowitz	It's marketing.	Oct 17 22:03
schestowitz	You know, like that marketing thing called "Linux Foundation" (some technical aspects too)	Oct 17 22:03
trmanco	whaat	Oct 17 22:04
trmanco	http://lists.ximian.com/pipermai...	Oct 17 22:04
PetoKraus	i mean, come on	Oct 17 22:04
PetoKraus	http://ask.slashdot.org/article...	Oct 17 22:04
schestowitz	http://blogs.computerworld.com/bal...	Oct 17 22:04
jose	i may return later or not...	Oct 17 22:05
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schestowitz	trmanco: from "Thomas Wiest twiest at novell.com "	Oct 17 22:06
schestowitz	Mono... a 'community' project.	Oct 17 22:06
trmanco	lol	Oct 17 22:07
schestowitz	I have a stable final release at 0.7.8	Oct 17 22:08
schestowitz	Totally stable... http://othellomaster.com/OM-5.html	Oct 17 22:08
trmanco	what?	Oct 17 22:08
trmanco	that version number looks like compiz	Oct 17 22:08
schestowitz	Coincidence. Mine predates it.	Oct 17 22:10
schestowitz	I think Compiz/Fusion is near 0.8	Oct 17 22:10
trmanco	cool	Oct 17 22:13
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PetoKraus	hmm, the JS benchmark test is cool	Oct 17 22:18
PetoKraus	alright, fuck google and it's fud	Oct 17 22:19
PetoKraus	http://www.download-google-chrome.or...	Oct 17 22:19
schestowitz	Chrome is WIndows.	Oct 17 22:20
PetoKraus	not really	Oct 17 22:21
schestowitz	That's a possible residual of Microsofters landing in Google.	Oct 17 22:21
schestowitz	It's not the only example of Google turning its back on standards and such...	Oct 17 22:21
PetoKraus	chrome is proprietary, it just happens to use chromium's code	Oct 17 22:21
schestowitz	Is it like RHEL?	Oct 17 22:21
PetoKraus	well, did you read the link?	Oct 17 22:22
PetoKraus	rhel at least gives you full sources	Oct 17 22:22
PetoKraus	well, pretends to do so...	Oct 17 22:22
PetoKraus	if you compile chromium you don't get chrome. If you compile RHEL provided sources, you should get RHEL, with different graphics ofc (called Centos)	Oct 17 22:23
schestowitz	It's the same with Android.	Oct 17 22:23
schestowitz	Android doesn't expose all the code.	Oct 17 22:24
PetoKraus	yes.	Oct 17 22:25
PetoKraus	doh	Oct 17 22:25
PetoKraus	anyway, nvidia pisses me off the most	Oct 17 22:25
schestowitz	Blobvidia	Oct 17 22:26
PetoKraus	yes. exactly	Oct 17 22:26
PetoKraus	intel's graphics is not better, though	Oct 17 22:27
schestowitz	Black box in your box.	Oct 17 22:27
PetoKraus	i hear, that X3100 lack some features...	Oct 17 22:27
schestowitz	It does 'pretty things' though	Oct 17 22:27
PetoKraus	like XV doesn't work	Oct 17 22:27
PetoKraus	it's quite funny how AMD ended up being the most-open vendor...	Oct 17 22:27
schestowitz	Yes	Oct 17 22:28
schestowitz	We need to help AMD now.	Oct 17 22:28
schestowitz	Reward them.	Oct 17 22:28
PetoKraus	my open-source driver powered AMD card works a charm. Compositing is ok, direct rendering works quite as well	Oct 17 22:28
PetoKraus	schestowitz: i'd do so, only if someone would a) give me the €£500; b) make actually PUMA-based laptops	Oct 17 22:28
schestowitz	Laptops... don't people buy the small stuff now? Sub-notebooks?	Oct 17 22:30
schestowitz	Smaller, cheaper and for people who unlike you and I do nothing intensive it's fine enough.	Oct 17 22:30
PetoKraus	that's exactly where puma comes in	Oct 17 22:33
PetoKraus	integrated GPU which can handle full HD playback	Oct 17 22:34
PetoKraus	the processors are not as powerful as Core 2 Duo's, but, you don't need number crunching (unless on gentoo:P )	Oct 17 22:35
Tallken	Intel what?	Oct 17 22:35
Tallken	I have a X3100	Oct 17 22:35
Tallken	do you have more info on what you said?	Oct 17 22:36
PetoKraus	afaik, it doesn't support Xv	Oct 17 22:36
PetoKraus	or last time I checked at my friend's machine, it didn't	Oct 17 22:36
schestowitz	Intel ought to have been embargod already.	Oct 17 22:39
schestowitz	*goed	Oct 17 22:39
schestowitz	Over in Europe, it's playing weasel at the moment. Those multi-billion-dollar companies think they are above the law and bribe is acceptable.	Oct 17 22:40
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schestowitz	Duh-of-the-day: http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=1645 : Ballmer: ‘Windows 7 will be Vista...	Oct 17 23:18
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*PetoKraus has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))		Oct 17 23:19
jose	schestowitz, are you familiar with the process of gaining edit access to wikipedia?	Oct 17 23:19
schestowitz	Do you not get them when you register?	Oct 17 23:19
schestowitz	I didn't edit much.	Oct 17 23:20
schestowitz	Depends on the article as well.	Oct 17 23:20
*pombat42 (n=pombat42@ool-182dda9f.dyn.optonline.net) has left #boycottnovell ("Leaving")		Oct 17 23:26
jose	ok, so it's a simple matter.. no blood analysis required... thanx	Oct 17 23:48
jose	i could ask you more, but i just wanted a general idea	Oct 17 23:48
jose	thought it might be more complicated	Oct 17 23:49
schestowitz	I only fix very minor stuff like typos.	Oct 17 23:52
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Comments

AlexH

2008-10-18 10:29:58

I certainly do read the logs when people note they've been talking about me, shame it's more ad hominem rather than actually arguing the content.

Just for the record, I didn't "defend" Silverlight the other day. What I was point out the reasons why people might be interested in using it, and how other systems fall short on free software, particularly if you want to actually *create*.

I guess we're just supposed to be passive consumers of content, so non-free Flash is preferable and if you're on 64-bit then tough.
Roy Schestowitz

2008-10-18 10:39:08

Flash and other binary Web 'plugins' are being successfully marketed mainly due to video (and later comes DRM). We urgently need Ogg in there and Mozilla might help. The Web needs to be reborn (again) without Flash.
AlexH

2008-10-18 12:47:55

While I would agree with you in theory, in practice that's not going to happen. Flash alone has an incredibly high installed base and reaches a level of compatibility that is difficult to match.

Flash and Flash-like content is here to stay.
Dan O'Brian

2008-10-18 13:53:14

<schestowitz> Microsoft’s attitude has for long been: “Either you’re with us or against us”

Wait, isn't that your attitude? That's what you do to Novell and everyone else who ever disagrees with you.

"You're either with us or against us."

That's what most people (minus you and your friends in your irc channel) refer to as hypocrisy - bashing Microsoft for your own faults.
Roy Schestowitz

2008-10-18 14:00:46

The polarised attitude from Microsoft/Novell predates the Free software movement. Antagonism and prejudice needs to be traced down to their source, to the roots.
Roy Schestowitz

2008-10-18 14:03:46

Example:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Letter_to_Hobbyists http://www.digibarn.com/collections/newsletters/homebrew/V2_01/index.html http://www.digibarn.com/collections/newsletters/homebrew/V2_01/gatesletter.html

Bill Gates: "They are the ones who give hobbyists a bad name, and should be kicked out of any club meeting they show up at."
Dan O'Brian

2008-10-18 14:04:27

Alex's point about Linux/FOSS needing the tools to *create* the content is definitely very real. While your "hard-core" FOSS users might be right at home writing XML and javascript in vi, the average web developer on other platforms (like Flash and Silverlight) have much higher-level tools that do a lot of the work for them. This makes it much more practical (and faster/cheaper) to write Flash/Silverlight websites than it would be for someone to write the same website by hand using javascript in vi/emacs/gedit/kate/whatever.

If you want the mass of web developers to switch to an open platform (whatever it might be), then someone or group needs to create some really nice tools to make it easy. Intellisense, debugger, UI designer, etc.

F/LOSS has an excellent track record of making good libraries and good software, but they do not have a track record of making good tools to write software - which has always puzzled me.

IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: October 17th, 2008

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