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| balzac | M$ should be getting "red-lined" | Mar 31 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| balzac | Until Bill Gates cries uncle and just admits, RMS is the un-disputed heavyweight of software | Mar 31 00:01 |
| balzac | Bill Gates should admit that GNU rocks, copyleft is more clever than anything he's done, and he's been full of crap all these years. | Mar 31 00:02 |
| balzac | that could save his shareholders a lot of grief if he were to stop clinging to his archaic software licenses and narrow-minded philosophy | Mar 31 00:03 |
| schestowitz | I want to see what Kroes says | Mar 31 00:03 |
| schestowitz | Probably nothing | Mar 31 00:03 |
| schestowitz | The EC commission got schmoozed | Mar 31 00:03 |
| schestowitz | Another thing MS took from the inside | Mar 31 00:03 |
| schestowitz | 'Took' = 'bought' | Mar 31 00:03 |
| schestowitz | Here you have Microsoft abusing a European company with invalid patents | Mar 31 00:04 |
| schestowitz | It's abusing its position also and FAT was shot down in Europe before (in court) | Mar 31 00:04 |
| balzac | politics is about being willfully obtuse in order to represent the ignorance of the masses | Mar 31 00:06 |
| balzac | everyone who is embracing software patents is ignorant or willfully obtuse | Mar 31 00:07 |
| balzac | Hillary Clinton would support software patents with a mind-numbing slogan and a big grin | Mar 31 00:08 |
| MinceR | gn | Mar 31 00:09 |
| schestowitz | balzac: help organise some digital protest against swpats | Mar 31 00:10 |
| balzac | later MinceR | Mar 31 00:10 |
| schestowitz | Make them nervous | Mar 31 00:10 |
| schestowitz | They are very afraid that the big lie will explode... like a bubble | Mar 31 00:10 |
| balzac | schestowitz: I have to focus on my work primarily | Mar 31 00:10 |
| schestowitz | It's a system of lies | Mar 31 00:10 |
| schestowitz | Where monopolies gain | Mar 31 00:10 |
| balzac | but I will oppose software patents by civil disobedience, should it come to that | Mar 31 00:10 |
| schestowitz | Do what Jon Loch did.. | Mar 31 00:10 |
| balzac | Deliberately call attention to a specific "infringement" of their most cherished software patent | Mar 31 00:11 |
| balzac | but I don't have the time to worry about that idiocy | Mar 31 00:12 |
| balzac | no time for "angstivism" | Mar 31 00:12 |
| balzac | must get money for strippers... | Mar 31 00:12 |
| balzac | Roy, I made up that word | Mar 31 00:13 |
| Balrog_ | civil disobedience? | Mar 31 00:13 |
| balzac | angstivism - fruitless activism driven by angst | Mar 31 00:13 |
| balzac | George Soros is the opposite of an "angstivist" | Mar 31 00:14 |
| balzac | PETA is almost purely angstivism | Mar 31 00:14 |
| balzac | Free Software advocacy is quite awesome and powerful activism, but there can be angsty overtones at times | Mar 31 00:15 |
| balzac | Al Gore does angstivism at times | Mar 31 00:16 |
| balzac | anyone who uses Paris Hilton as part of their socially-concerned activist shpiel is probably involved in some kind of angstivism | Mar 31 00:16 |
| balzac | Al Gore couldn't resist | Mar 31 00:16 |
| balzac | The artist, Banksy did it too | Mar 31 00:17 |
| schestowitz | Angst leads to gore | Mar 31 00:17 |
| balzac | Nader has many years of solid activism, but his recent run for president was pretty angsty | Mar 31 00:18 |
| balzac | Kucinich was better | Mar 31 00:18 |
| balzac | If the FSF ponied up enough cash to hire Paris Hilton for a few spots, it would be excellent, but it's counter-intuitive. | Mar 31 00:20 |
| balzac | So many people would object, but they'd all be wrong. | Mar 31 00:20 |
| schestowitz | What does it have to do with celebrity icons? | Mar 31 00:23 |
| balzac | superficiality | Mar 31 00:24 |
| schestowitz | Plastic surgery can't buy the elections, not even in the US | Mar 31 00:24 |
| schestowitz | A country can be reformed through education but not in a single generation | Mar 31 00:24 |
| schestowitz | As RMS called it, "mind-virus" | Mar 31 00:24 |
| balzac | I never heard Paris had any plastic surgery | Mar 31 00:24 |
| schestowitz | That's what I heard | Mar 31 00:24 |
| balzac | well, she looks hot to me, not a trainwreck - yet | Mar 31 00:24 |
| balzac | superficiality, charisma, distraction, uselessness - these can be good | Mar 31 00:26 |
| balzac | levity rather than the drama of a "purpose-driven" approach | Mar 31 00:26 |
| balzac | existentialism rather than progressive-ism | Mar 31 00:26 |
| schestowitz | There's more to life than that. | Mar 31 00:27 |
| schestowitz | It encourages dumbing down of the population as well | Mar 31 00:27 |
| schestowitz | Glorification of ignorance | Mar 31 00:27 |
| balzac | instant gratification rather than incremental "progress" which ultimately never attains the stated goal | Mar 31 00:27 |
| balzac | schestowitz: I would cite Lao Tzu's Tao te Ching in defense of laziness, uselessness, and other things which can be virtues in the right context | Mar 31 00:28 |
| balzac | It's called the "dark virtue" | Mar 31 00:29 |
| schestowitz | Like war? | Mar 31 00:29 |
| balzac | nope, war is angst-driven | Mar 31 00:29 |
| schestowitz | "war is peace" --Orwell | Mar 31 00:29 |
| schestowitz | Why suffer the dperession? | Mar 31 00:29 |
| schestowitz | No money? | Mar 31 00:29 |
| schestowitz | No job? | Mar 31 00:29 |
| schestowitz | Join the army | Mar 31 00:29 |
| schestowitz | Find friends | Mar 31 00:29 |
| schestowitz | Get bed and food | Mar 31 00:29 |
| schestowitz | get a big gun | Mar 31 00:30 |
| schestowitz | Enjoy the battlefield | Mar 31 00:30 |
| schestowitz | Shoot Iraqis | Mar 31 00:30 |
| balzac | wilhelm reich had some good insights on how problems of human psychology lead to wars | Mar 31 00:30 |
| schestowitz | Like in CounterStrike | Mar 31 00:30 |
| balzac | sexual frustration being a key driving-force | Mar 31 00:30 |
| schestowitz | Freud worte about ti too | Mar 31 00:30 |
| schestowitz | Before WW1 | Mar 31 00:30 |
| schestowitz | About animal instincts that can erupt in men | Mar 31 00:30 |
| balzac | schestowitz: the playing-field of sloganeering, propaganda, non-intellectualism cannot be ceded to those who are not sane enough to handle it responsibly | Mar 31 00:31 |
| *tacone has quit (Remote closed the connection) | Mar 31 00:31 | |
| balzac | if repressed, these animal instincts will erupt violently | Mar 31 00:31 |
| balzac | that's why, non-intellectualism (not anti-intellectualism) must be acknowledged and accepted | Mar 31 00:32 |
| schestowitz | Did you see the Hitler Youth shouting deliriously? | Mar 31 00:32 |
| schestowitz | I wonder if there is group-think involved in these things | Mar 31 00:32 |
| schestowitz | Like an infectious trend...peer minitation | Mar 31 00:33 |
| schestowitz | *imitation | Mar 31 00:33 |
| balzac | yep, but that underlying angst combine with the purpose-driven mentality, conviction in self-rightousness, and willingness to use deadly force - those were the main problems | Mar 31 00:33 |
| schestowitz | This works well with celebrities | Mar 31 00:33 |
| balzac | you can see young people shouting deliriously at the superbowl, quite harmlessly | Mar 31 00:33 |
| schestowitz | Once a person (like Hilton) is admired, the likelihood of admiration from another person grows greater | Mar 31 00:33 |
| balzac | because sport is existentialist, while social-agendas are purpose-driven | Mar 31 00:34 |
| schestowitz | That too | Mar 31 00:34 |
| schestowitz | Sports events can be tribal, by design | Mar 31 00:34 |
| schestowitz | nationalism or localism | Mar 31 00:34 |
| balzac | non-utilitarian lifestyle activities are key | Mar 31 00:34 |
| *_Hicham_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) | Mar 31 00:39 | |
| balzac | Joe Lewis beating Max Shmeling was an important victory | Mar 31 00:39 |
| *_Hicham_ (n=hicham@41.249.16.87) has joined #boycottnovell | Mar 31 00:40 | |
| schestowitz | What's what about? | Mar 31 00:44 |
| balzac | what I just mentioned? | Mar 31 00:47 |
| balzac | Lewis beating Schmeling was a victory in a sport which struck a psychological blow to the advocates of eugenics | Mar 31 00:48 |
| balzac | it's a good thing that fight happened | Mar 31 00:48 |
| schestowitz | Any video? | Mar 31 00:50 |
| balzac | they had two fights | Mar 31 00:50 |
| balzac | schmeling beat joe lewis earlier in their careers | Mar 31 00:50 |
| balzac | joe lewis won the next fight | Mar 31 00:50 |
| balzac | check it out on youtube | Mar 31 00:50 |
| *tacone (n=tacone@93-32-187-9.ip34.fastwebnet.it) has joined #boycottnovell | Mar 31 00:52 | |
| schestowitz | wb, tacone | Mar 31 00:53 |
| tacone | pidgin crashed | Mar 31 00:53 |
| schestowitz | balzac: I will do later | Mar 31 00:53 |
| schestowitz | tacone: into a Windows (pigeon) | Mar 31 00:54 |
| tacone | ? | Mar 31 00:54 |
| tacone | windows ? | Mar 31 00:54 |
| Balrog_ | pidgin is linux | Mar 31 00:57 |
| Balrog_ | for linux * | Mar 31 00:57 |
| tacone | lol | Mar 31 00:57 |
| tacone | you read my ctcp, right ? | Mar 31 00:57 |
| tacone | "Microsoft Internet Explorer 5.5 IRC ActiveX" | Mar 31 00:58 |
| schestowitz | I didn't | Mar 31 01:00 |
| schestowitz | I made a joke about a bird flying into a window | Mar 31 01:00 |
| tacone | oh | Mar 31 01:01 |
| Balrog_ | tacone: why is that? are you using windows? | Mar 31 01:01 |
| tacone | no, a pidgin plugin that let you set what you want. | Mar 31 01:01 |
| schestowitz | SLED3.11? | Mar 31 01:01 |
| Balrog_ | ah lol | Mar 31 01:01 |
| Balrog_ | that's cool | Mar 31 01:01 |
| tacone | that's just a joke | Mar 31 01:02 |
| tacone | but i'll have to powerup some windows vm | Mar 31 01:02 |
| tacone | to try ubuntu portable | Mar 31 01:02 |
| tacone | i'm not a fan of colinux, but i think that would be a nice addition to the livecd, if mixing is technically possible. | Mar 31 01:03 |
| schestowitz | re swpats: I saw the page from Phipps and discussed it by E-mail with FFII folks. Update tomorrow. | Mar 31 01:05 |
| schestowitz | balzac: Red Hat is not the bad guy | Mar 31 01:05 |
| schestowitz | There might be disinfo | Mar 31 01:05 |
| balzac | Roy, I know | Mar 31 01:06 |
| schestowitz | Still negotiated | Mar 31 01:07 |
| schestowitz | Some competition there too | Mar 31 01:07 |
| schestowitz | Red Hat competitots | Mar 31 01:07 |
| balzac | But we're not having a slumber-party and playing with a miniature tea set | Mar 31 01:07 |
| balzac | it's fine to verbally rip whats-his-name | Mar 31 01:07 |
| balzac | Redhat CEO | Mar 31 01:07 |
| schestowitz | go to #boycottnovell-social | Mar 31 01:08 |
| schestowitz | I'll post it there | Mar 31 01:08 |
| balzac | CEO's often get to where they are by pounding their fists and yelling | Mar 31 01:08 |
| balzac | so they can handle getting dissed on irc | Mar 31 01:08 |
| balzac | I'm pretty pleased with the NYSE deal | Mar 31 01:08 |
| balzac | I appreciate the executives who did that, including Whitehurst and even Fiorini (to whatever extent she was involved) | Mar 31 01:09 |
| schestowitz | I'm pasting it in #boycottnovell-social to avoid flood here | Mar 31 01:09 |
| balzac | ok, I don't need to carry on about it | Mar 31 01:10 |
| balzac | feel free to excise whatever you think is not relevant from your posted log files | Mar 31 01:11 |
| balzac | I ought to get back to work. | Mar 31 01:12 |
| schestowitz | Did you know OOo download pace doubled in less than a year? Was about 1.3m/week, now about 2.5,/week? | Mar 31 01:12 |
| balzac | great news | Mar 31 01:12 |
| schestowitz | People feel the pinch | Mar 31 01:12 |
| schestowitz | So they get The Dove (or Gull) | Mar 31 01:13 |
| balzac | what's that? | Mar 31 01:14 |
| balzac | you mean the logo of OOo ? | Mar 31 01:16 |
| schestowitz | Yes | Mar 31 01:22 |
| schestowitz | Also blog name | Mar 31 01:22 |
| schestowitz | Main blog anyway | Mar 31 01:22 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft is therefore dumping MSO | Mar 31 01:22 |
| schestowitz | I wrote about it this morning in BN | Mar 31 01:22 |
| balzac | wow | Mar 31 01:23 |
| balzac | Archaic software licenses and exorbitant prices are not sustainable... who could have predicted that? | Mar 31 01:24 |
| balzac | I saw you mention a correspondence from Tienman earlier. | Mar 31 01:25 |
| balzac | hilarious graphics in your postings today | Mar 31 01:27 |
| schestowitz | Which one? | Mar 31 01:29 |
| balzac | The "Guppy" plane carpet-bombing peasants with the Marie Antoinette quote | Mar 31 01:31 |
| balzac | The mono dialog box | Mar 31 01:31 |
| balzac | I like your use of imagechef too, for some nice decorations | Mar 31 01:31 |
| schestowitz | OOo downloads at 2,000,000-3,000,000 < http://blogs.sun.com/j... > vs. "downloaded more than 1.2M times per week" < http://blogs.sun.com/dancer/ent... > | Mar 31 01:31 |
| balzac | I've been wondering if Sun would buy Canonical | Mar 31 01:32 |
| tacone | unlikely. | Mar 31 01:32 |
| balzac | so Sun would have something more current and conventional to offer than solaris | Mar 31 01:33 |
| balzac | I didn't enjoy Solaris much when I used it | Mar 31 01:33 |
| balzac | and I don't like the way Sun is making users fill out too many forms and log in to get downloads of their packages | Mar 31 01:34 |
| balzac | and handling the presentation of mysql in unconventional ways, man-handling it a bit | Mar 31 01:34 |
| balzac | tacone: why not? | Mar 31 01:35 |
| balzac | Shuttleworth is too smart to sell out, probably. | Mar 31 01:36 |
| balzac | he's just finally had a profitable quarter, right? | Mar 31 01:36 |
| tacone | i don't think he wants money so badly. | Mar 31 01:36 |
| balzac | i agree | Mar 31 01:36 |
| tacone | he likes money, but don't need it fast. | Mar 31 01:36 |
| tacone | would be stupid to sell a growing company | Mar 31 01:36 |
| balzac | what will Sun do about enterpise GNU and Linux? | Mar 31 01:37 |
| tacone | you usually sell a growing company if you have no money and no longer want to work for the rest of your life. | Mar 31 01:37 |
| balzac | surely opensolaris is not their answer | Mar 31 01:37 |
| schestowitz | SUN is selling itself | Mar 31 01:37 |
| schestowitz | It ain't buying | Mar 31 01:37 |
| tacone | i have no clue, but they would be better set trying to buy suse or any other smaller distro | Mar 31 01:37 |
| balzac | buy novell you mean? | Mar 31 01:38 |
| tacone | no, buy suse. why novell ? | Mar 31 01:38 |
| balzac | I didn't know it was a company | Mar 31 01:38 |
| tacone | i am fantasizing, of course. | Mar 31 01:38 |
| balzac | how about hire up the best suse devs and pry it away from novell? | Mar 31 01:38 |
| balzac | that would suck for novell | Mar 31 01:38 |
| tacone | that way you don't get the community | Mar 31 01:39 |
| tacone | you get a part. and flames after flames. | Mar 31 01:39 |
| balzac | well, the suse community needs to be rescued from novell or it'll just dissipate | Mar 31 01:39 |
| tacone | shuttleworth posted on their mailing list some year ago, lol | Mar 31 01:39 |
| tacone | schestowitz: remember ? | Mar 31 01:39 |
| schestowitz | Yes | Mar 31 01:40 |
| schestowitz | They should go to them | Mar 31 01:40 |
| tacone | to ubuntu you mean ? | Mar 31 01:40 |
| schestowitz | Well, someone from Red Hat mailed me because I asked them to hire sacked SUSE devs | Mar 31 01:40 |
| schestowitz | Sort of asked | Mar 31 01:40 |
| schestowitz | Because they hired Mandriva devs | Mar 31 01:40 |
| schestowitz | And Red Hat is a growing company, so... | Mar 31 01:40 |
| schestowitz | I'm not sure Canonical is hiring | Mar 31 01:41 |
| tacone | what did he say ? | Mar 31 01:41 |
| tacone | yes, it's hiring. | Mar 31 01:41 |
| schestowitz | "They're working on it" | Mar 31 01:41 |
| tacone | but slowly. | Mar 31 01:41 |
| tacone | well, most hires are the one you don't see | Mar 31 01:41 |
| schestowitz | SUSE has 2 teams | Mar 31 01:41 |
| schestowitz | The Boston(ish) team | Mar 31 01:41 |
| tacone | they put together a design compartment | Mar 31 01:41 |
| schestowitz | And the German team | Mar 31 01:41 |
| schestowitz | German team does Linux | Mar 31 01:41 |
| tacone | but no one knows who they are, or at least, not me. | Mar 31 01:41 |
| schestowitz | US team does Microsoft poisonware | Mar 31 01:42 |
| schestowitz | So the Germans make good Linux, kernel, etc | Mar 31 01:42 |
| tacone | and they hire br | Mar 31 01:42 |
| tacone | but as for the engineers, they're quite slowly paced. | Mar 31 01:42 |
| schestowitz | Then de Icaza and his losers come and put poison on top and sing about how glorious Ballmer is... | Mar 31 01:42 |
| schestowitz | So it's a good thing they are a long distance apart | Mar 31 01:42 |
| balzac | I was rooting for John Schwarz from Sun to pull things together there | Mar 31 01:42 |
| schestowitz | Novell does nothing to SuSE (old S.u.S.E.) by ruin it for MS bribes | Mar 31 01:43 |
| schestowitz | $100m was the last bribe | Mar 31 01:43 |
| schestowitz | "Poison Linux, get cookie" | Mar 31 01:43 |
| balzac | Sun should hire up some of these SuSE devs | Mar 31 01:43 |
| balzac | get more serious about GNU & Linux | Mar 31 01:43 |
| balzac | and have a debian-based enterprise distro | Mar 31 01:43 |
| schestowitz | Won't happen | Mar 31 01:44 |
| schestowitz | SUN gave up | Mar 31 01:44 |
| schestowitz | They put themselves up to be shopped | Mar 31 01:44 |
| schestowitz | So they won't gobble up or develop anything | Mar 31 01:44 |
| balzac | why, because they're too emotionally attached to their proprietary unix legacy? | Mar 31 01:44 |
| _Hicham_ | Solaris is dead | Mar 31 01:45 |
| balzac | hell, they should've released as much of it as legally possible under GPLv3 | Mar 31 01:45 |
| balzac | and called Torvald's bluff | Mar 31 01:45 |
| balzac | The CDDL just isn't sexy | Mar 31 01:45 |
| balzac | the opensolaris community reminds me of an embittered former soviet republic | Mar 31 01:46 |
| balzac | that's how I felt about the solaris bureaucracy in this company I worked at | Mar 31 01:46 |
| balzac | there were even some old grumpy guys unix from russia and eastern europe | Mar 31 01:47 |
| balzac | I told one of my contacts there that their company is suffering "bureaucratic sclerosis" | Mar 31 01:49 |
| balzac | I know how to sweet-talk em. I bet they'll be offering me a big signing bonus any time now... | Mar 31 01:50 |
| schestowitz | Balrog: he gave the Coke spiel | Mar 31 01:50 |
| schestowitz | Asking if it was indeed Pepsi | Mar 31 01:50 |
| schestowitz | balzac: yes, solaris is like some buried nuclear missile from the 60s | Mar 31 01:52 |
| balzac | heheh | Mar 31 01:52 |
| balzac | bunch of crusty guys, still manning their stations in the missile silo | Mar 31 01:52 |
| balzac | The first couple of phone meetings I had, they were talking about their "big iron" and "production environment" and policies | Mar 31 01:54 |
| *Balrog_ has quit (Remote closed the connection) | Mar 31 01:54 | |
| balzac | but Sun doesn't maintain their repositories nearly as well as Canonical | Mar 31 01:55 |
| *Balrog_ (n=Balrog@pool-68-238-235-164.phil.east.verizon.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Mar 31 01:55 | |
| balzac | so it's no picnic trying to get simple things done. I was somewhat more ignorant of sysadmin tasks, but I wasn't there as a sysadmin. | Mar 31 01:55 |
| balzac | I was practically "hazed" by the unix bureaucracy because they found it hard to just get a proper webserver going. | Mar 31 01:56 |
| schestowitz | Balrog: can you do noise cancellation for background sound? | Mar 31 01:56 |
| Balrog_ | asking me? | Mar 31 01:56 |
| Balrog_ | no, unfortunately | Mar 31 01:56 |
| schestowitz | balzac: that's why they call it Big Iron | Mar 31 01:56 |
| Balrog_ | he used a mic, which led to echo | Mar 31 01:56 |
| *oiaohm (n=oiaohm@unaffiliated/oiaohm) has joined #boycottnovell | Mar 31 01:57 | |
| schestowitz | That's OK | Mar 31 01:57 |
| schestowitz | Caused you asked for feedback/suggestion | Mar 31 01:57 |
| Balrog_ | if you know of a good filter (preferably one in mplayer) let me know | Mar 31 01:57 |
| Balrog_ | yeah it's ok | Mar 31 01:57 |
| balzac | I should be running their IT department | Mar 31 01:57 |
| Balrog_ | whose it dep't? | Mar 31 01:58 |
| balzac | some large company in manhattan which will remain nameless | Mar 31 01:58 |
| Balrog_ | heh ok | Mar 31 01:58 |
| balzac | schestowitz: I wish I had contacts inside Redhat | Mar 31 01:59 |
| oiaohm | I wish I had a contact inside Redhat who liked me. | Mar 31 02:00 |
| balzac | honestly, i'm not completely opposed to the idea of RHCE for myself | Mar 31 02:00 |
| oiaohm | Got one that does not like me. | Mar 31 02:00 |
| balzac | but some days I'm more cantankerous than others | Mar 31 02:00 |
| oiaohm | You sound like me balzac | Mar 31 02:01 |
| Balrog_ | RHCE? | Mar 31 02:01 |
| balzac | so I say things bad anti-corporate things which would would make people's eyes tear up for a second | Mar 31 02:01 |
| balzac | Redhat certified engineer, if I got their acronym right | Mar 31 02:02 |
| oiaohm | Yep you got it right balzac I was just trying to type it. | Mar 31 02:02 |
| Balrog_ | ah ok. | Mar 31 02:02 |
| balzac | The McDonalds comparisons were probably regrettable in retrospect | Mar 31 02:02 |
| balzac | I was pushing for Redhat in this company for their transaction servers | Mar 31 02:03 |
| oiaohm | Comparing redhat secuirty defects to windows ones was my regrettable in retrospect | Mar 31 02:03 |
| Balrog_ | explain. | Mar 31 02:03 |
| oiaohm | You are aware that X11 in every before current Fedora runs as root Balrog_ | Mar 31 02:04 |
| Balrog_ | that's not good!!! | Mar 31 02:04 |
| balzac | I just don't know if I'd end up feeling like a got in the wrong lane while Canonical is growing quickly and I started trying to get socially integrated with Redhat people... | Mar 31 02:04 |
| Balrog_ | is that necessary? | Mar 31 02:04 |
| oiaohm | It was necessary due to poor design of X11 | Mar 31 02:05 |
| Balrog_ | ah. | Mar 31 02:05 |
| balzac | for that matter, I'd be forsaking my neutrality as a consultant if I got a particular corporate certification | Mar 31 02:05 |
| oiaohm | I basically told them that they should not be claiming to be providing a secure desktop until they fixed X11 because the secuirty was basically just as stuffed as windows in GUI mode. | Mar 31 02:05 |
| balzac | I should just remain unaffiliated and try to build my consulting business | Mar 31 02:05 |
| oiaohm | Not a wise line to use. | Mar 31 02:06 |
| oiaohm | True but still not a wise line to use. | Mar 31 02:06 |
| balzac | It's good to be diplomatic | Mar 31 02:06 |
| balzac | or else you can end up like the guy in office space who got his stapler confiscated and his cubicle moved to the basement | Mar 31 02:07 |
| oiaohm | One of my friends decriptins of me is. If being diplomatic was using a small jewellers hammer. Normally not diplomatic would be a sledhammer and that I am a building leveling recking ball. | Mar 31 02:08 |
| oiaohm | Its about true. I normally say then think opps. | Mar 31 02:08 |
| balzac | oiaohm: I would offer you an unprofessional prescription of xanax | Mar 31 02:09 |
| oiaohm | In the work I do being diplomatic don't help. | Mar 31 02:09 |
| balzac | jk | Mar 31 02:09 |
| oiaohm | Its more jump now. | Mar 31 02:10 |
| oiaohm | I get pulled out when anyone asks for a 100 percent truthful answer. | Mar 31 02:12 |
| oiaohm | Most of the time they regret it. | Mar 31 02:12 |
| balzac | that's a setup | Mar 31 02:12 |
| oiaohm | Rare cases they get prase for a good job. | Mar 31 02:12 |
| balzac | the guys who summon you to be asked for the sincere response are mitigating their risk by delegating it to you | Mar 31 02:13 |
| balzac | you should ask them why they're asking you | Mar 31 02:13 |
| oiaohm | Funny part custommers normally ask for me as lead next time. | Mar 31 02:14 |
| oiaohm | Most of them are after the 100 percent truth no suger coating. | Mar 31 02:14 |
| balzac | lead dev/engineer or manager | Mar 31 02:14 |
| oiaohm | Secuirty consultant and network designer. | Mar 31 02:14 |
| balzac | do you get to delegate tasks? | Mar 31 02:15 |
| oiaohm | Yep. | Mar 31 02:15 |
| balzac | that's important | Mar 31 02:15 |
| balzac | I got bogged down by not having the percieved stature to delegate much | Mar 31 02:16 |
| oiaohm | Secuirty being diplomatic with really don't help. | Mar 31 02:16 |
| oiaohm | Either it working or it broken. | Mar 31 02:16 |
| balzac | I should learn more security stuff specifically in my sysadmin studies | Mar 31 02:16 |
| balzac | credibility in IT security can't be attained overnight | Mar 31 02:18 |
| schestowitz | I was just thinking, what's the likelihood of some WIndows nutter tossing an egg at RMS at a talk? | Mar 31 02:18 |
| balzac | that would be hilarious | Mar 31 02:18 |
| schestowitz | Would he duck like a sissy Ballmer (behind a table)? | Mar 31 02:19 |
| balzac | if it doesn't happen, it should be staged by an agent provocateur in a suit | Mar 31 02:19 |
| balzac | jk, eggs can actually be pretty bad to get hit by | Mar 31 02:19 |
| balzac | I'd duck "like a sissy" | Mar 31 02:19 |
| oiaohm | Here goes my day off again | Mar 31 02:20 |
| oiaohm | Why do things have to screw up when I have a rostered day off. | Mar 31 02:20 |
| balzac | I thought it was amusing when that M$ guy won the auction for the stuffed GNU | Mar 31 02:20 |
| *oiaohm has quit (Remote closed the connection) | Mar 31 02:21 | |
| balzac | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v... <-- this is what RMS would do to an egg thrower | Mar 31 02:24 |
| balzac | my sense of humor needs to be refined a bit. it's pretty terrible. | Mar 31 02:25 |
| _Hicham_ | u have a great sense of humor balzac, and I like it | Mar 31 02:27 |
| _Hicham_ | usually this room get warm when there is oiaohm and u | Mar 31 02:28 |
| schestowitz | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=... | Mar 31 02:28 |
| balzac | _Hicham_: sounds like you're implying oiaohm and I should get a room together. | Mar 31 02:29 |
| balzac | no thanks man. | Mar 31 02:29 |
| schestowitz | He said warm | Mar 31 02:29 |
| schestowitz | Not "hot and heavy" | Mar 31 02:30 |
| balzac | I laughed out loud ad that egging | Mar 31 02:30 |
| balzac | he popped off like a true irish peugelist | Mar 31 02:30 |
| balzac | nevermind, he's a limey old brit | Mar 31 02:31 |
| _Hicham_ | balzac : u went really far | Mar 31 02:31 |
| _Hicham_ | basically, oiaohm is a radical person | Mar 31 02:32 |
| balzac | it's traditional for people of irish descent to talk trash about british, and traditional for americans as well | Mar 31 02:32 |
| _Hicham_ | and u, u are rather pragmatic | Mar 31 02:32 |
| balzac | and scots hate to be mistaken for brits | Mar 31 02:32 |
| balzac | oiaohm is probably a toothless beer-swilling aussie | Mar 31 02:33 |
| schestowitz | What?!?! | Mar 31 02:33 |
| _Hicham_ | balzac : how do u know? | Mar 31 02:34 |
| balzac | white australians are the least classy | Mar 31 02:34 |
| balzac | new zealanders have more class | Mar 31 02:34 |
| balzac | it's just a joke | Mar 31 02:34 |
| _Hicham_ | balzac : oiaohm will get really mad if he heard that | Mar 31 02:34 |
| _Hicham_ | :D | Mar 31 02:34 |
| balzac | well, suppose I call him crocodile dundee? | Mar 31 02:34 |
| balzac | put another shrimp on the barbie, mate! Outback Steakhouse! Bloomin' Onion! | Mar 31 02:35 |
| balzac | it's the xanax talking | Mar 31 02:35 |
| _Hicham_ | he will lose all of his internal data | Mar 31 02:35 |
| balzac | core dump | Mar 31 02:35 |
| balzac | someone will have to save the log file for him | Mar 31 02:35 |
| _Hicham_ | and there will be no one to recover that data | Mar 31 02:35 |
| balzac | americans are the butt of british humor, and irish as well | Mar 31 02:35 |
| balzac | Aussies are funny, they call women "sheilas" | Mar 31 02:36 |
| _Hicham_ | british people don't have a sense of humor | Mar 31 02:36 |
| schestowitz | Oh, he left... | Mar 31 02:36 |
| _Hicham_ | except Roy maybe | Mar 31 02:36 |
| schestowitz | I thought he was still hee. | Mar 31 02:36 |
| schestowitz | *here | Mar 31 02:36 |
| balzac | Roy, I'm not worried if he sees the logfile | Mar 31 02:37 |
| balzac | he was talking trash about Americans | Mar 31 02:37 |
| schestowitz | balzac: so stop this nonsense | Mar 31 02:37 |
| balzac | well, that's what he gets | Mar 31 02:37 |
| schestowitz | It serves no purpose | Mar 31 02:37 |
| balzac | you know i'm not at all serious | Mar 31 02:37 |
| _Hicham_ | Roy : balzac is just kidding | Mar 31 02:37 |
| balzac | i would apologize if he asked me to | Mar 31 02:37 |
| _Hicham_ | Roy : stop being serious | Mar 31 02:37 |
| _Hicham_ | Roy : i know british people are serious | Mar 31 02:38 |
| balzac | the bloomin onion had to be the most stinging joke | Mar 31 02:38 |
| _Hicham_ | Roy : people like balzac are fundamental in ur campaign | Mar 31 02:38 |
| _Hicham_ | u can't win without balzac | Mar 31 02:38 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: I know | Mar 31 02:38 |
| balzac | australians are cool as hell, but quite a lot of the credit goes to native australian culture affecting those of european descent | Mar 31 02:38 |
| schestowitz | But nonetheless it can be miscomprehended | Mar 31 02:39 |
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| _Hicham_ | well, oiaohm know us all | Mar 31 02:39 |
| balzac | except that Rupert Murdoch sucks and so did John Howard | Mar 31 02:40 |
| balzac | Rudd seems cool | Mar 31 02:40 |
| _Hicham_ | there is nothing to worry about | Mar 31 02:40 |
| _Hicham_ | we are all cool Roy | Mar 31 02:41 |
| _Hicham_ | it is just that sometimes we need to joke | Mar 31 02:41 |
| balzac | When I make class-humor at the expense of Australians, it's white australians I'm making fun of. | Mar 31 02:41 |
| _Hicham_ | Roy is silent | Mar 31 02:43 |
| _Hicham_ | maybe he is mad | Mar 31 02:43 |
| schestowitz | No, just going to bed | Mar 31 02:44 |
| schestowitz | Done posting the links for today | Mar 31 02:44 |
| schestowitz | gn | Mar 31 02:44 |
| balzac | later roy | Mar 31 02:44 |
| balzac | please put in a good word with tienman for me | Mar 31 02:44 |
| _Hicham_ | good night Roy | Mar 31 02:45 |
| _Hicham_ | balzac : did u upset oiaohm? | Mar 31 02:45 |
| balzac | I won't know until someone gives him the log from tonight | Mar 31 02:47 |
| balzac | If he can't laugh about it, I'll apologize, but I'll still be happy tell him he's wrong about this or that. | Mar 31 02:48 |
| balzac | like his criticism of the GCC | Mar 31 02:49 |
| balzac | some of his criticism is useful, but some of it is offered without any follow-up on what to do about it | Mar 31 02:51 |
| _Hicham_ | he criticizes GCC a lot, yes | Mar 31 02:55 |
| _Hicham_ | he want radical changes in GCC | Mar 31 02:55 |
| balzac | yeah, well that one by accomplished by "angstivism" | Mar 31 02:57 |
| balzac | I told him last time that technical competence is not the only key, it's also the degree to which you embrace the philosophy of a given project. | Mar 31 02:57 |
| balzac | He agreed and thought it wasn't good, but I think that's how it should be. | Mar 31 03:00 |
| balzac | If I had an important project under my control and a guy was offering great code, but challenging the founding principles of the project, I would say "thank you for your ideas, but I cannot accept your code". | Mar 31 03:01 |
| _Hicham_ | oiaohm doesn't think like that | Mar 31 03:01 |
| _Hicham_ | he likes whatever works | Mar 31 03:02 |
| balzac | Because then he would begin to leverage his code commits for the purpose of changing the project's direction to what he has in mind | Mar 31 03:02 |
| balzac | well, he isn't very excited about the GNU vision | Mar 31 03:02 |
| balzac | he is predicting the demise of the GNU project, again and again | Mar 31 03:02 |
| balzac | I saw an old smart unix guy on a mailing list heavily criticising the GNU project's documentation | Mar 31 03:03 |
| balzac | he made some valid points, but he was so filled with contempt for the current state of things, I doubt he was embraced | Mar 31 03:04 |
| balzac | You can only ask people to relinquish so much of their dignity to your criticism if you expect them to use it directly | Mar 31 03:05 |
| balzac | ego and social stature are worth something as well | Mar 31 03:05 |
| _Hicham_ | oiaohm just thinks different | Mar 31 03:08 |
| _Hicham_ | he just seen a lot of events I think | Mar 31 03:08 |
| _Hicham_ | that is why | Mar 31 03:08 |
| I found something useful in MiniM$FT's blog after all http://slashdot.org/~twitter... | Mar 31 03:10 | |
| updating the death watch. http://slashdot.org/~twitter/j... | Mar 31 03:13 | |
| gn | Mar 31 03:13 | |
| _Hicham_ | are u still here balzac? | Mar 31 03:33 |
| balzac | yo | Mar 31 03:33 |
| balzac | I'm having a problem getting my ssh keep alive working | Mar 31 03:34 |
| balzac | i'm a little bit pissed abou it | Mar 31 03:34 |
| balzac | about it | Mar 31 03:34 |
| qdev | 06/29/2007 - GPL3 negates the Novell Patent Deal. | Mar 31 03:39 |
| qdev | does gpl3 really negate that deal? | Mar 31 03:39 |
| qdev | 10/23 - Russia moves all schools to GNU/Linux. This is what they said they would do when M$ sued and threatened school teacher with jail for "Piracy". | Mar 31 03:41 |
| qdev | that's actually not true | Mar 31 03:42 |
| qdev | schools still buy windows, 'cause educational plan almost states that you gotta teach windows | Mar 31 03:43 |
| qdev | lol, if everything is like described there in the deathwatch, m$ should be already dead | Mar 31 03:52 |
| balzac | how strange | Mar 31 03:52 |
| balzac | qdev: that's what I love about BN | Mar 31 03:53 |
| qdev | what's bn? | Mar 31 03:53 |
| balzac | There's blood in water! Look's like meat's back on the menu boys! | Mar 31 03:53 |
| balzac | BoycottNovell.com | Mar 31 03:53 |
| qdev | ah | Mar 31 03:53 |
| balzac | I'm just dying to get some of that revenue that Microsoft is enjoying | Mar 31 03:54 |
| balzac | just a little nibble of their market-share | Mar 31 03:54 |
| qdev | i read m$ fired plenty of developers already | Mar 31 03:55 |
| balzac | sorry for the poor slobs | Mar 31 03:55 |
| qdev | wtf is writing win7 then | Mar 31 03:55 |
| balzac | I'm sorry that their educational institutions gave them such limited curriculum | Mar 31 03:55 |
| balzac | sorry their company insists on using such archaic licenses | Mar 31 03:55 |
| qdev | education in russia is effed up nowadays | Mar 31 03:55 |
| balzac | sorry to hear that | Mar 31 03:57 |
| balzac | is that where you are? | Mar 31 03:57 |
| qdev | yeah | Mar 31 03:57 |
| qdev | http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/brows... | Mar 31 03:57 |
| balzac | that's not bad | Mar 31 03:58 |
| balzac | FF was less than 5% not long ago, now they're above 21% internationally | Mar 31 03:59 |
| balzac | it's the tipping point - your first 10% is harder than the next 40% | Mar 31 03:59 |
| qdev | i just don't get which browser people use worldwide | Mar 31 04:00 |
| balzac | once you're beyond %30 market-share, you've probably already gone past half way, because it accelerates after that | Mar 31 04:00 |
| qdev | wtf it can be sane to use ie | Mar 31 04:00 |
| balzac | FF is the one | Mar 31 04:00 |
| balzac | it's the best for developers and the most innovative for users | Mar 31 04:00 |
| balzac | curing the years-old problem of media codecs wars from proprietary software vendors | Mar 31 04:01 |
| qdev | i know, have ie banned at home by firewall | Mar 31 04:01 |
| balzac | FF3.1 - ogg theora video support | Mar 31 04:01 |
| balzac | bookmarks managed by sqlite | Mar 31 04:01 |
| balzac | strong SVG support | Mar 31 04:02 |
| balzac | great plugin-architecture | Mar 31 04:02 |
| balzac | the gold standard GNU GPL license | Mar 31 04:02 |
| balzac | and it's the cavalry, leading the charge, the point of the phalanx which is breaking through the impenetrable wall of Microsoft monopoly | Mar 31 04:03 |
| balzac | GNU-power! | Mar 31 04:04 |
| qdev | i will personally appreciate moment when ie hits 10% to never rise again | Mar 31 04:04 |
| qdev | 'cause it's kinda should-never-existed browser | Mar 31 04:05 |
| balzac | yeah | Mar 31 04:05 |
| _Hicham_ | I just finished rebranding Iceweasel and Icedove | Mar 31 04:06 |
| balzac | well, Marc Andreesen from Netscape said they were going to defeat Microsoft | Mar 31 04:06 |
| _Hicham_ | now I have my Firefox and Thunderbird artwork back | Mar 31 04:06 |
| balzac | so Microsoft stepped on Netscape like a cockroach | Mar 31 04:06 |
| balzac | cool | Mar 31 04:06 |
| balzac | now Microsoft is being eaten alive | Mar 31 04:07 |
| balzac | maybe that metaphor is a little too colorful | Mar 31 04:10 |
| balzac | let's just say their capital and market-share on declining | Mar 31 04:10 |
| qdev | it's better to celebrate when m$ market share is an obvious loss | Mar 31 04:15 |
| balzac | it is obvious | Mar 31 04:16 |
| balzac | IE is being devoured by Mozilla FF | Mar 31 04:16 |
| balzac | that is a crucial component - the interface of the user to the internet | Mar 31 04:16 |
| balzac | FF defeating IE is going to break their control of their users' perceptions | Mar 31 04:17 |
| balzac | thereby causing them to lose everything else | Mar 31 04:17 |
| balzac | by the time Microsoft abandons their archaic licenses and exorbitant prices, it will be far too late | Mar 31 04:17 |
| balzac | plus they have to worry about such a sudden loss of share-holder confidence, that people get paranoid and call it a ponzi-scheme with too much imaginary value derived from creative accounting | Mar 31 04:18 |
| balzac | Microsoft could go down like the soviet union in a relatively short period of time | Mar 31 04:18 |
| qdev | soviet union went to it about 70 years | Mar 31 04:20 |
| qdev | i hope m$ doesn't live that long | Mar 31 04:21 |
| balzac | qdev: the point is, it happened very quickly at the end | Mar 31 04:21 |
| balzac | the berlin wall came down and everything unraveled in a short period of time after that | Mar 31 04:21 |
| balzac | IE losing to FF is like the fall of the Berlin Wall | Mar 31 04:21 |
| balzac | so the 21% international marketshare of Firefox means that the wall has been breached | Mar 31 04:22 |
| balzac | and the pace of growth of FF is only accelerating | Mar 31 04:22 |
| balzac | look at a graph and you'll see | Mar 31 04:22 |
| qdev | i doubt that it's 21, 30-40 most likely | Mar 31 04:22 |
| balzac | some places in Europe, it's over 50% | Mar 31 04:23 |
| balzac | I read somewhere | Mar 31 04:23 |
| qdev | it would be good if china accepted gnu/linux at a government level | Mar 31 04:23 |
| balzac | yeah, I lobbied for it with a chinese entrepreneur when I was there | Mar 31 04:26 |
| balzac | he had high communist party officials he knew | Mar 31 04:26 |
| balzac | Bad software makes me want to blow a gasket | Mar 31 04:27 |
| balzac | bad software really makes the veins in my temples throb | Mar 31 04:27 |
| balzac | I get really pissed at bad software nowadays. I'm sick of having to support IE for my websits. | Mar 31 04:27 |
| balzac | I even get pissed at GPL-licensed software when it doesn't work as expected. | Mar 31 04:29 |
| balzac | I get pissed at bad or incomplete documentation, incompatibilities, etc. | Mar 31 04:30 |
| balzac | But proprietary software is just funny, just a bad joke being played on consumers. | Mar 31 04:30 |
| _Hicham_ | China doesn't use Linux? | Mar 31 04:36 |
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| balzac | I'm annoying my friends, both on-line and off-line | Mar 31 05:03 |
| balzac | it must be the combination of aderrall and xanax | Mar 31 05:05 |
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| Omar87 | Hi all | Mar 31 05:23 |
| Omar87 | schestowitz: I was just enjoying reading your latest posts on BN. | Mar 31 05:23 |
| Omar87 | They're amazing! :D | Mar 31 05:24 |
| Omar87 | “I’m going to f—ing kill Google.” ~ Steve Ballmer --->> "Actually, you're going to f---ing kiss my a--." ~ My response to him. | Mar 31 05:27 |
| Omar87 | “Google’s not a real company. It’s a house of cards.” ~ Steve Ballmer --->> "Yeah, f---ing right." ~ My response to him. | Mar 31 05:29 |
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| balzac | haha | Mar 31 05:45 |
| balzac | gotta love steve ballmer | Mar 31 05:45 |
| balzac | he's one funny guy | Mar 31 05:45 |
| balzac | and nobody can tell him he's wrong or he'll probably scare the crap out of them | Mar 31 05:46 |
| balzac | but those two weasels from google are too much for the bald, bewildered ballmer | Mar 31 05:47 |
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| schestowitz | hey | Mar 31 08:48 |
| MinceR | hay | Mar 31 08:54 |
| schestowitz | I'll do some posts soon. | Mar 31 08:55 |
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| schestowitz | Beranger is back on Linux: http://beranger.org/v3/wordpress/2... | Mar 31 10:45 |
| schestowitz | http://beranger.org/v3/wordpress/20... http://beranger.org/v3/wordpress/2009/03/25... | Mar 31 10:46 |
| schestowitz | His whole blog seems to be just about GNU/Linux. He couldn't help it and he ran back to momma Linux. | Mar 31 10:47 |
| MinceR | lol | Mar 31 10:48 |
| MinceR | let me guess, he won't write a post explaining how windows or whatever he went back crying to just didn't cut it after all | Mar 31 10:49 |
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| schestowitz | MinceR: no, that would make the poster a "loser" | Mar 31 11:02 |
| schestowitz | Maybe he had a chance to see what a turd Windows is for everyday use | Mar 31 11:03 |
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| oiaohm | I kinda annoyed him from the start of his windows cycle. | Mar 31 11:38 |
| oiaohm | Really did not like the point that after a while using windows faults of Linux would not seam that bad. | Mar 31 11:38 |
| oiaohm | Nice we are staring to see MS drop departments they don't think is important. | Mar 31 11:43 |
| oiaohm | Question is how long until they get back to the important stuff. | Mar 31 11:43 |
| MinceR | if he went back to linux, he certainly did see what a turd windows is | Mar 31 11:51 |
| MinceR | the lifecycle of ensemble studios was sad | Mar 31 11:51 |
| MinceR | they went well, then m$ bought them and then m$ killed them | Mar 31 11:51 |
| MinceR | even though they didn't even compete with m$. | Mar 31 11:51 |
| oiaohm | Problem is I have seen the s cycle of getting sick of lInux going to windows with hope. | Mar 31 11:52 |
| oiaohm | I did it once. | Mar 31 11:52 |
| oiaohm | No way doing it twice. | Mar 31 11:52 |
| schestowitz | What about Mac OS? | Mar 31 11:54 |
| schestowitz | Say goodbye to Xen yet? http://boycottnovell.com/2009... | Mar 31 11:54 |
| MinceR | macos isn't even a contender :> | Mar 31 11:55 |
| MinceR | (unless all you need is an appliance, not a computer) | Mar 31 11:55 |
| schestowitz | And who on Earth would touch Mono after the TomTom case? http://boycottnovell.com/2009/03/3... | Mar 31 11:55 |
| oiaohm | I told beranger at one point he would be would be happier off with a Mac. | Mar 31 11:55 |
| oiaohm | I guess you have not been to recent Linux confs schestowitz. | Mar 31 11:56 |
| schestowitz | In Romania, do they even have Apple shops? | Mar 31 11:56 |
| oiaohm | Some days the apple laptops walking around there out number every other kind. | Mar 31 11:56 |
| schestowitz | With bad hardware (and no choice of hardware), the last thing one needs are these running expenses | Mar 31 11:56 |
| MinceR | schestowitz: there are lots of idiots who would, i'm afraid | Mar 31 11:56 |
| oiaohm | Xen is not dead yet. | Mar 31 11:56 |
| MinceR | xen could be forked if anyone cared | Mar 31 11:56 |
| oiaohm | Everyone keeps on pointing to the wrong think to kill Xen. | Mar 31 11:57 |
| MinceR | nenolod said he would if he had to :) | Mar 31 11:57 |
| oiaohm | Its not kvm it is Lguest. | Mar 31 11:57 |
| oiaohm | think/thing | Mar 31 11:57 |
| MinceR | lguest? never heard of it | Mar 31 11:57 |
| *MinceR checks | Mar 31 11:57 | |
| oiaohm | It is in the main Linux kernel MinceR | Mar 31 11:58 |
| MinceR | i don't quite understand what it does | Mar 31 11:58 |
| MinceR | how is it different from KVM? | Mar 31 11:58 |
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| oiaohm | http://beta.linuxfoundation.org/... | Mar 31 11:59 |
| oiaohm | Lguest does not need cpu support MinceR | Mar 31 11:59 |
| oiaohm | Instead is exactly like Xen paravirtualisation mode. | Mar 31 11:59 |
| MinceR | oh, so it runs xen-compatible paravirtualized guests? | Mar 31 11:59 |
| oiaohm | kvm lguest and qemu use the same paravirtualization methods. | Mar 31 12:00 |
| oiaohm | Xen is the odd ball out. | Mar 31 12:00 |
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| oiaohm | lguest supporting kernels can also boot without being contained where xen ones cannot. | Mar 31 12:01 |
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| ToreadorVampire | Oh hai | Mar 31 12:02 |
| MinceR | ic | Mar 31 12:02 |
| MinceR | hay ToreadorVampire :) | Mar 31 12:02 |
| ToreadorVampire | So this is where you hang out MinceR :) | Mar 31 12:02 |
| MinceR | this is one of the 51 channels i hang out in, yes :> | Mar 31 12:02 |
| ToreadorVampire | Heh | Mar 31 12:02 |
| MinceR | this lguest stuff looks interesting, i wonder when libvirt is going to start supporting it | Mar 31 12:03 |
| ToreadorVampire | Yeah, but I didn't have you on freenode yet :) | Mar 31 12:03 |
| schestowitz | Hi, ToreadorVampire | Mar 31 12:05 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: Xen is messy | Mar 31 12:05 |
| schestowitz | Not elegantly combined with Linux | Mar 31 12:05 |
| schestowitz | thw whole dom0 debate | Mar 31 12:05 |
| ToreadorVampire | Yo ... mainly just poking my head in ... semi-interested in the whole "mono patent trap" (since I'm a mono user), although not 100% sure how worried about it really need to be ... | Mar 31 12:07 |
| oiaohm | Lot of the Linux kernel developers think Xen should just come into alignment with the virtio drivers. | Mar 31 12:08 |
| oiaohm | Mono is a patent trap. The patent ensurance on it is only 5 years for patents that could last over 20. | Mar 31 12:09 |
| oiaohm | first patent/protection. | Mar 31 12:10 |
| oiaohm | Its not like following the .net path is required. | Mar 31 12:10 |
| ToreadorVampire | Mmm, well - when it came to "new-school high-level oop language choice" I picked C# | Mar 31 12:12 |
| ToreadorVampire | So mono looked really attractive to me | Mar 31 12:12 |
| schestowitz | It's a bad habit | Mar 31 12:12 |
| schestowitz | Like getting attracted to smoking | Mar 31 12:12 |
| schestowitz | The cost entails | Mar 31 12:12 |
| oiaohm | Vala is also a great high level oop language. | Mar 31 12:13 |
| oiaohm | With faster performance that .net can offer. | Mar 31 12:13 |
| ToreadorVampire | Mmm, well - if the patent trap is scary enough, maybe I will look into moving to python ... | Mar 31 12:13 |
| MinceR | so is c++ :> | Mar 31 12:13 |
| oiaohm | Vala runs running around mono really. | Mar 31 12:13 |
| oiaohm | Darm I Have word drop. | Mar 31 12:13 |
| oiaohm | Vala runs rings around mono really. | Mar 31 12:14 |
| oiaohm | http://www.parrot.org/languages For a engine running languages .net is not even that powerful. | Mar 31 12:14 |
| oiaohm | People refocus look whats around .net is not great. | Mar 31 12:14 |
| MinceR | how's LLVM going? | Mar 31 12:16 |
| oiaohm | Still improving. | Mar 31 12:17 |
| oiaohm | Really needs lot more language front ends. | Mar 31 12:17 |
| oiaohm | Put a parrot front end in llvm would be interesting. | Mar 31 12:17 |
| MinceR | :) | Mar 31 12:19 |
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| MinceR | i wonder how much would CIL over LLVM and .net -> parrot avoid the patent trap | Mar 31 12:22 |
| oiaohm | That is the thing everyone overlooks. | Mar 31 12:22 |
| oiaohm | CIL is simpler to reverse and rebuilt the applications. | Mar 31 12:23 |
| oiaohm | Its a case of developers being tricked into no more secrets. | Mar 31 12:23 |
| MinceR | what does everyone overlook? the possibility of doing so, the fact that it's still vulnerable or the fact that the patents are avoided this way? | Mar 31 12:24 |
| oiaohm | Simple to avoid. | Mar 31 12:24 |
| oiaohm | You can rebuild the applications in patent free country. | Mar 31 12:24 |
| oiaohm | C# and the languages using CIL really don't have any new features. | Mar 31 12:25 |
| MinceR | that still prevents you from selling them in the usa, doesn't it? | Mar 31 12:25 |
| oiaohm | Other than the back end engine. | Mar 31 12:25 |
| oiaohm | Really no MinceR | Mar 31 12:25 |
| MinceR | also, i don't know how much the EU and Hungary is free of sw patents now | Mar 31 12:25 |
| oiaohm | Cloning. | Mar 31 12:25 |
| oiaohm | If you can document how an application works you can build a clone. | Mar 31 12:26 |
| oiaohm | Compared to ASM CIL is a walk in the park to disasm. | Mar 31 12:26 |
| oiaohm | Closed source guys are bacically going to wake up MS has backstab them. | Mar 31 12:27 |
| MinceR | "lguest (pronounced rÃÅs.ti'vai.zÃâ¢r)" :D | Mar 31 12:27 |
| oiaohm | Leaving them in a place open sourcing there code and not open sourcing there code make basically no difference to the protection they have. | Mar 31 12:28 |
| oiaohm | .Net trap is way more than patents. | Mar 31 12:28 |
| oiaohm | Teach students C# so students don't have the skills to build a full OS independant to .net was MS idea. | Mar 31 12:30 |
| oiaohm | Vala proves it possiable to build a C# releated language that builds to native code. | Mar 31 12:31 |
| oiaohm | Sooner or latter MS will have rebelion form inside there .net users. | Mar 31 12:31 |
| benJIman | c# can be built to native code too. See sharpos. | Mar 31 12:32 |
| benJIman | Or singularity. | Mar 31 12:33 |
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| MinceR | anything that doesn't need its own OS? | Mar 31 12:36 |
| oiaohm | sharpos and singularity both are depending on ahead of time building. | Mar 31 12:38 |
| oiaohm | The problem with both is .net is really a limited struct OS. | Mar 31 12:39 |
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| oiaohm | So neither sharpos or singularity are truly independant of it. | Mar 31 12:39 |
| benJIman | Whta do you mean by "limited struct OS"? | Mar 31 12:40 |
| oiaohm | Take C for example. It design can scale to any bit width processor. | Mar 31 12:40 |
| DaemonFC | What sucks is that most any distribution ships with Mono | Mar 31 12:40 |
| oiaohm | .net not so much. | Mar 31 12:40 |
| DaemonFC | so you usually have to remove it by hand | Mar 31 12:40 |
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| oiaohm | You have to remember 16 bit wide processors are still used in some places. | Mar 31 12:41 |
| oiaohm | C advantage for OS coding is it freedoms to be altered to match the platform you are using. Even droping the ideas of any common functions and exception handling if that is more suitable. | Mar 31 12:45 |
| DaemonFC | http://www.foxbusiness.com/story/... | Mar 31 12:46 |
| DaemonFC | Fixed News apparently loves Mono | Mar 31 12:46 |
| schestowitz | Fixed :-) | Mar 31 12:47 |
| schestowitz | Gotta keep people's control of computers out of this public arena... | Mar 31 12:47 |
| schestowitz | Get them addicted to Monio | Mar 31 12:47 |
| schestowitz | Then pass them to .NET | Mar 31 12:47 |
| DaemonFC | if Fox News tells you the sky is blue, you better damned well go out and make sure | Mar 31 12:48 |
| schestowitz | Envelope the resistors. | Mar 31 12:48 |
| DaemonFC | B-) | Mar 31 12:48 |
| DaemonFC | They're the Pravda of the Republican Party | Mar 31 12:48 |
| DaemonFC | masquerading as a news network | Mar 31 12:48 |
| schestowitz | It's called News Corp | Mar 31 12:48 |
| schestowitz | News does not mean "truth" | Mar 31 12:48 |
| schestowitz | It means new something | Mar 31 12:49 |
| schestowitz | Like NEW talking point | Mar 31 12:49 |
| schestowitz | Or NEW pr[opaganda] | Mar 31 12:49 |
| DaemonFC | Pravda was the name of the Soviet state news agency | Mar 31 12:49 |
| DaemonFC | :) | Mar 31 12:49 |
| schestowitz | FOX NEWS = new from FOX | Mar 31 12:49 |
| schestowitz | FOX NEWS = new from Murdoch | Mar 31 12:49 |
| DaemonFC | what's hilarious is that the same company that runs crap kissing the ass of the Republicans also runs things like Family Guy on their other stations | Mar 31 12:50 |
| schestowitz | Anorher university has just sold out: http://www.upiasia.com/Society_Cu... | Mar 31 12:50 |
| DaemonFC | nothing like selling to both sides | Mar 31 12:50 |
| schestowitz | zer0c00l: see this one | Mar 31 12:50 |
| DaemonFC | that's nothing I'm sure | Mar 31 12:50 |
| zer0c00l | yes | Mar 31 12:50 |
| DaemonFC | Microsoft sells Windows and Office for $5 | Mar 31 12:51 |
| zer0c00l | schestowitz, which one | Mar 31 12:51 |
| DaemonFC | in the university stores in Indiana | Mar 31 12:51 |
| zer0c00l | ok | Mar 31 12:51 |
| zer0c00l | http://www.upiasia.com/Society_Cul... | Mar 31 12:51 |
| zer0c00l | schestowitz, looking | Mar 31 12:51 |
| DaemonFC | I bought a copy of Windows and Office in the student store | Mar 31 12:51 |
| DaemonFC | and ebayed them | Mar 31 12:52 |
| zer0c00l | lol | Mar 31 12:52 |
| DaemonFC | Microsoft bought me a few credit hours B-) | Mar 31 12:52 |
| zer0c00l | DaemonFC: you mean those keys are software? | Mar 31 12:52 |
| DaemonFC | they sell you the disc + serial | Mar 31 12:53 |
| DaemonFC | it says Student Edition on it | Mar 31 12:53 |
| DaemonFC | but it was really Windows XP Pro | Mar 31 12:53 |
| zer0c00l | here they give keys for free | Mar 31 12:53 |
| zer0c00l | disk we have to download | Mar 31 12:53 |
| DaemonFC | bah | Mar 31 12:53 |
| zer0c00l | but with ELMS there is no need for download :( | Mar 31 12:53 |
| oiaohm | The disk is 5 dollars. | Mar 31 12:53 |
| DaemonFC | someone asked me to try Windows 7 | Mar 31 12:53 |
| oiaohm | Licence is nothing. | Mar 31 12:54 |
| DaemonFC | I told them I didn't think it was worth a blank DVD | Mar 31 12:54 |
| oiaohm | MS is really trying to hold on. | Mar 31 12:54 |
| oiaohm | As makers of machines start demarding same kinds of deals MS profit streams are at risk. | Mar 31 12:54 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft is just duming | Mar 31 12:54 |
| schestowitz | Where is the business model? | Mar 31 12:55 |
| schestowitz | They have none, I think | Mar 31 12:55 |
| DaemonFC | well, Linux set the price point of the netbook | Mar 31 12:55 |
| schestowitz | They admit to investors that it's killing them.. sub-notebooks in particular | Mar 31 12:55 |
| oiaohm | Idea is kill Linux. | Mar 31 12:55 |
| DaemonFC | and Microsoft must give Windows for free | Mar 31 12:55 |
| oiaohm | Then bring profit up. | Mar 31 12:55 |
| schestowitz | Windows revenue fell sharply. | Mar 31 12:55 |
| DaemonFC | to even have a presence there | Mar 31 12:55 |
| DaemonFC | the netbook will bleed Microsoft | Mar 31 12:55 |
| oiaohm | Death of Linux is not going to happen. | Mar 31 12:55 |
| DaemonFC | and lead them into an unprofitable war of attrition | Mar 31 12:55 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: they can't kill Linux | Mar 31 12:55 |
| schestowitz | Watch PCLinuxOS 2009.1 | Mar 31 12:55 |
| oiaohm | Uni's are not longer the power house of Linux. | Mar 31 12:55 |
| schestowitz | Linux is ahead | Mar 31 12:56 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft knows this | Mar 31 12:56 |
| zer0c00l | but microsoft cannot give windows for free of cost all the time | Mar 31 12:56 |
| schestowitz | Staff exodus is telling | Mar 31 12:56 |
| zer0c00l | because it will affect their business a lot | Mar 31 12:56 |
| zer0c00l | :P | Mar 31 12:56 |
| oiaohm | They need trained suckers. | Mar 31 12:56 |
| schestowitz | It already does, so not "will" | Mar 31 12:56 |
| oiaohm | Ie students. | Mar 31 12:56 |
| schestowitz | They go into debty | Mar 31 12:56 |
| schestowitz | *debt | Mar 31 12:56 |
| DaemonFC | zer0c00l: That's what I mean, if they give it away free on millions of netbooks, and the netbooks are causing sales of normal laptops to decline | Mar 31 12:56 |
| oiaohm | So when boss asks them what software does X they answer Microsoft. | Mar 31 12:56 |
| DaemonFC | :) | Mar 31 12:57 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: not bound to always work | Mar 31 12:57 |
| schestowitz | They try to suffocate compettors | Mar 31 12:57 |
| DaemonFC | then they could lose 10-15% of their Windows income | Mar 31 12:57 |
| schestowitz | But GNU/Linux is not a company | Mar 31 12:57 |
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| DaemonFC | just because they can't sell Windows on netbooks | Mar 31 12:57 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: you give them to much credit | Mar 31 12:57 |
| schestowitz | As though they are winning | Mar 31 12:57 |
| schestowitz | It's very much the opposite | Mar 31 12:57 |
| schestowitz | Had they not dumped Windows, Linux would still dominate sub-notebooks | Mar 31 12:57 |
| oiaohm | There dumping is based on the old ideas that use to work. | Mar 31 12:57 |
| DaemonFC | which means they have to charge more for their other products | Mar 31 12:57 |
| DaemonFC | which turns mroe customers off | Mar 31 12:58 |
| schestowitz | That would ignite a chain reaction | Mar 31 12:58 |
| schestowitz | End game. | Mar 31 12:58 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: yes, like vs Netscape | Mar 31 12:58 |
| schestowitz | Or Borland | Mar 31 12:58 |
| schestowitz | But these were COMPANIES | Mar 31 12:58 |
| DaemonFC | so Ubuntu *must* kill them with Netbook Remix | Mar 31 12:58 |
| oiaohm | Dump hard into education and other markets sell in business. | Mar 31 12:58 |
| oiaohm | Problem is business is starting to grow a free mind. | Mar 31 12:58 |
| DaemonFC | Microsoft has to dump Windows+Office on students | Mar 31 12:58 |
| oiaohm | Yep. | Mar 31 12:59 |