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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: April 7th, 2009

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*Balrog_ (n=Balrog@pool-68-238-235-164.phil.east.verizon.net) has joined #boycottnovellApr 07 00:13
schestowitzgnApr 07 00:37
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_Hicham_oiaohm is the laziest man on the earth :DApr 07 02:02
oiaohmI am not exactly lazy.Apr 07 02:04
_Hicham_how can u describe urself?Apr 07 02:04
oiaohmLot of my work contains lot of borring bit.sApr 07 02:05
oiaohmIe databases backing up at moment.Apr 07 02:05
_Hicham_what kind of databases?Apr 07 02:06
oiaohmAll kinds log database its being scanned and backed up.  web site database internal business databases.Apr 07 02:07
oiaohmNext is the system imaging backup.Apr 07 02:07
oiaohmIf there is a issue I am expected to repair it straight away.  Not walk away have coffee and come back.Apr 07 02:08
_Hicham_this stuff is not automated yet?Apr 07 02:08
oiaohmAutomated to a point.Apr 07 02:08
oiaohmThe thing spits out anyone who has had a virus and the like.Apr 07 02:09
oiaohmAnd other strange happenings.Apr 07 02:09
oiaohmIts the responding to strange happings is why I am here.Apr 07 02:10
oiaohmSome days 100 percent nothing.Apr 07 02:10
oiaohmOther days eep.Apr 07 02:10
_Hicham_strange happenings?Apr 07 02:10
oiaohmServers not keeping 100 percent uptime and the like.Apr 07 02:10
oiaohmUnexplainable load spikes.Apr 07 02:11
oiaohmThings that can cause me to have to add extra monitoring or replace hardware.Apr 07 02:11
oiaohmSo far no smart reports of failing drives.Apr 07 02:11
oiaohm_Hicham_: It equal to security guard a times.Apr 07 02:12
oiaohmYes the automatic system will record everything.Apr 07 02:13
oiaohmBut you still have to be there to be the human to fix the problems it finds.Apr 07 02:13
oiaohmThey use to do this on call until 1 day drives reporting smart failure fell over before tech could get there.Apr 07 02:14
oiaohmAnd back them up.Apr 07 02:14
_Hicham_what do u think is the most reliable operating system for a big webserver?Apr 07 02:14
oiaohmSolaris or BSD(without cluster)Apr 07 02:15
oiaohmLinux with cluster reliable comes from that 1 part fails so what.Apr 07 02:16
oiaohmWindows 2003 and 2008 can be basically brought down by there filesystem locks under load.Apr 07 02:16
oiaohmBSD with cluster for some reason does not work as great as it should.Apr 07 02:18
oiaohmSomething in its tcp/ip stack does not spreed the laod.Apr 07 02:18
_Hicham_so solaris is the best?Apr 07 02:21
oiaohmIt depends on how much hardware you have.Apr 07 02:22
oiaohmThe differences between Linux BSD and Solaris is not much in stablity.Apr 07 02:22
_Hicham_in what?Apr 07 02:22
oiaohmDifference in hardware support is massive.Apr 07 02:22
_Hicham_Linux supports more hardware?Apr 07 02:23
oiaohmYepApr 07 02:23
NeonFlosshey, I though you guys might be interested in this - http://freemusicarchive.org - a CC music project - sorry for interuptionApr 07 02:23
oiaohmout of all the OS options Linux supports the most.Apr 07 02:23
oiaohmIn server hardware.Apr 07 02:24
oiaohmEven more than windows.Apr 07 02:24
_Hicham_and the best solution in Linux?Apr 07 02:24
oiaohmIt is also the size servers using.Apr 07 02:24
_Hicham_RHEL?Apr 07 02:24
oiaohmIf you are using like 4096 core systems BSD don't scale perfeclty on them Solarias can be ok issue linux is happen windows don't even install.Apr 07 02:25
oiaohmIts again task.Apr 07 02:25
oiaohmRHEL is not perfect for everything.Apr 07 02:25
_Hicham_there is no universal solution for the momentApr 07 02:26
oiaohmRHEL Centos are about equal.  Debian and Ubuntu gets used in places.Apr 07 02:26
oiaohmIt really comes down to the hardware.Apr 07 02:26
_Hicham_and what do u say about RHEL vs Debian on servers?Apr 07 02:26
oiaohmAnd administation preference.Apr 07 02:27
oiaohmI use both.Apr 07 02:27
_Hicham_I mean which is more complete for server use?Apr 07 02:27
oiaohmReally I don't have that much of a perfence.Apr 07 02:27
oiaohmRHEL has nice configuration tools.Apr 07 02:27
_Hicham_I am not talking about preferenceApr 07 02:27
oiaohmBoth equal in what they can do.Apr 07 02:28
oiaohmMost of the time.Apr 07 02:28
_Hicham_but the difference is the tools?Apr 07 02:28
oiaohmrunnign a orcale database you would put it on RHEL.Apr 07 02:28
oiaohmor unbreakable Linux from orcaleApr 07 02:28
oiaohmBoth are basically RHELApr 07 02:29
_Hicham_so RHEL/Centos is better for commercial software?Apr 07 02:29
oiaohmNo.Apr 07 02:29
oiaohmThere are some commerical software that will give support if you are on debian but not RHEL.Apr 07 02:29
oiaohmIt really comes down to what you are using.Apr 07 02:30
oiaohmReason why I end up running openvzApr 07 02:30
oiaohmWith Debian and Centos running side by side on the same machine.Apr 07 02:30
oiaohmBest of both worlds.Apr 07 02:31
oiaohmI guess that is an answer you were not expect _Hicham_Apr 07 02:31
_Hicham_noApr 07 02:31
_Hicham_I was expecting it in factApr 07 02:31
_Hicham_it is normalApr 07 02:31
_Hicham_it is not a preference issueApr 07 02:32
_Hicham_it is a matter of functionalityApr 07 02:32
oiaohmNot exactly functionally.Apr 07 02:32
oiaohmBecuase all that commerical software will work on both.Apr 07 02:32
oiaohmIts more can you get support with the functionallity or are you on your own.Apr 07 02:33
_Hicham_so it is just commercial support?Apr 07 02:34
_Hicham_that what matters?Apr 07 02:34
oiaohmThat really does matter.Apr 07 02:35
oiaohmSomething strange happens being able to call a help desk is really useful.Apr 07 02:35
oiaohmCan make the difference between 5 mins down timeApr 07 02:35
oiaohmAnd many hours.Apr 07 02:35
_Hicham_u r right on thatApr 07 02:36
_Hicham_it makes a lot of differenceApr 07 02:36
oiaohmIts like me I use 1 tool to configure most of settings in any Linux I use.Apr 07 02:37
_Hicham_1 tool?Apr 07 02:37
imamilkydrunkviApr 07 02:38
_Hicham_what is this tool?Apr 07 02:39
_Hicham_oiaohm : r u still here?Apr 07 02:49
*imamilkydrunk is now known as hedgieApr 07 02:51
hedgieit's better to ask "r u still there?" due to portal gameApr 07 02:55
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balzacsudo !!Apr 07 03:49
balzacoops, wrong windowApr 07 03:49
balzacRoy really dropped a serious open letter on the patent pushing angstivistsApr 07 03:51
balzacschestowitz ++Apr 07 03:51
balzacdo while ($software_patents):Apr 07 03:52
balzacresist_software_patents();Apr 07 03:52
balzac$schestowitz ++Apr 07 03:53
balzacend;Apr 07 03:53
balzacsomething like that...Apr 07 03:53
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tessierYeay, I'm on twitter. So how would anyone find me if they wanted to follow?Apr 07 04:56
NeonFlosshashtagsApr 07 05:01
NeonFlossI don; t know why im helping you use evil social netowrking sites :PApr 07 05:01
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schestowitzHeyApr 07 06:22
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schestowitztessier: I only see https://twitter.com/BCMguyApr 07 07:15
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tessierhttp://twitter.com/tracyrreedApr 07 08:05
schestowitzIsilon cuts staff, recruits NetApper < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2... >Apr 07 08:24
schestowitzNot surprisingly, The Register's Microsoft's mole is promoting Microsoft partner at the expense of Java which he ridicules. Zend offers PHP cure for Java bloat < http://www.theregister.co.uk/20... >Apr 07 08:25
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schestowitzMaking DE wars again... http://www.itwire.com/conten...Apr 07 09:04
schestowitzBN is unreachable again :-(   Britain's policing problem < http://www.opendemocracy.net/blog/ourkin... >Apr 07 09:07
schestowitzEconomist: US collapse driven by 'fraud'; Geithner covering up bank insolvency < http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Econo... >Apr 07 09:12
schestowitzIBM is pushing software patents into a debate on Free software: http://www.sutor.com/newsite/...Apr 07 09:21
schestowitzTech Sector Job Losses Up Five-Fold From A Year Ago http://www.paidcontent.org/entry/419-r...Apr 07 09:30
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MinceRgeekingsApr 07 09:57
oiaohmHi MinceRApr 07 10:43
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schestowitzbblApr 07 11:58
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trmancosuse studioApr 07 12:35
trmancowowApr 07 12:35
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_Hicham_Hi Roy!Apr 07 13:07
_Hicham_Hi oiaohmApr 07 13:07
_Hicham_oiaohm : what time is it in there?Apr 07 13:07
oiaohm10 pmApr 07 13:07
_Hicham_so u r exhausted now, it is the end of ur dayApr 07 13:08
_Hicham_did u finish backing up the databases?Apr 07 13:08
oiaohmYepApr 07 13:09
oiaohmAnd disappeared to fix a few things.Apr 07 13:09
oiaohmWhen I got back you were gone.Apr 07 13:10
oiaohmEver used webmin _Hicham_Apr 07 13:11
_Hicham_noApr 07 13:12
_Hicham_is it a web interface to some administration tool?Apr 07 13:12
oiaohmhttp://webmin.com/Apr 07 13:13
oiaohmConfigures most things about Linux from a web interface not matter the distribution.Apr 07 13:13
_Hicham_most things about Linux?Apr 07 13:14
_Hicham_what about root access?Apr 07 13:15
_Hicham_do u have to give the browser root access to be able to do that?Apr 07 13:16
oiaohmNopApr 07 13:18
oiaohmIts for remote administation.Apr 07 13:18
oiaohmSo it has a ssl login.Apr 07 13:18
_Hicham_what is the distro that best supports xen?Apr 07 13:22
oiaohmDefine support.Apr 07 13:22
_Hicham_nice tools to configure+commercial hotlineApr 07 13:23
oiaohmMost distributions with right kernel will run in xen perfectly.Apr 07 13:23
oiaohmMost good counfigation tools are netural.Apr 07 13:23
oiaohmAnd made by redhat.Apr 07 13:23
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oiaohmhttp://ovirt.org/  << _Hicham_ just 1.Apr 07 13:24
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_Hicham_I have a slow wifi connectionApr 07 13:25
_Hicham_it takes ages to open a pageApr 07 13:25
_Hicham_what is hardware virtualization support?Apr 07 13:27
_Hicham_is there some hardware that support directly virtualization?Apr 07 13:27
oiaohmYes there is.Apr 07 13:27
oiaohmThere is even some special network card for virtualization.Apr 07 13:28
_Hicham_which components exacly?Apr 07 13:28
_Hicham_apart the network card?Apr 07 13:28
oiaohmI would have to lookApr 07 13:29
oiaohmLest say having cpu do virtual network cards is ok cpu expensive.  But the virtualization support cases are down right expensive.Apr 07 13:30
oiaohmIn cash.Apr 07 13:30
_Hicham_up to how much?Apr 07 13:31
oiaohmStart around the 400 dollar mark and goes up.Apr 07 13:31
oiaohmYes for a network card that would otherwise cost 15 dollars.Apr 07 13:32
oiaohmPrice of the tech will come down in time.Apr 07 13:32
_Hicham_it is reasonable priceApr 07 13:36
_Hicham_very reasonableApr 07 13:36
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toroshiApr 07 13:38
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schestowitzHeyApr 07 14:02
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torosschestowitz: I see, you wrote about this case: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/04/05/...Apr 07 14:06
torosIt looks like as if open source would get a huge ammount of money for the first sightApr 07 14:07
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torosbut the truth is, this is just trapApr 07 14:07
torosthis money is _only_ for licensesApr 07 14:09
torosso it can't be spent on support, or new hardware, or trainingApr 07 14:10
torosand nobody contacted the FSF.hu Foundation (the most important free software foundation in Hungary)Apr 07 14:11
toroswe just saw the headlines in the news...Apr 07 14:12
torosso it looks like more some kind of corruptionApr 07 14:12
torossomebody will sell debian "licenses" for huge moneyApr 07 14:13
MinceRor just patent licensesApr 07 14:14
MinceRi mean "covenants not to sue"Apr 07 14:14
schestowitzYes, something like thatApr 07 14:17
schestowitzThey mention  NovellApr 07 14:17
schestowitzI.e. Linux with the patent tax already paid to Microsoft, no questions asked.Apr 07 14:17
schestowitzHey, maybe they'll buy some coupons. Microsoft would love it.Apr 07 14:18
schestowitzOoh, lucky me. I has just started raining... moments after I came back from a run on a sunny day. The weather is erratic.Apr 07 14:19
torosyes, I think Novell will get a nice sumApr 07 14:19
torosthe funny is, we had this weekend a conference, called "Linux in the Education"Apr 07 14:20
torosand there was nobody, who knew anything about this caseApr 07 14:20
schestowitzhttp://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_... (Why baseball benched Microsoft Silverlight) "The other major issue was that baseball considered Silverlight too unstable. There were some high-profile glitches, including last year’s opening day, which saw many MLB.com subscribers struggling to log in and others who were unable to watch games. The malfunctions lasted several days." Apr 07 14:22
schestowitzSun set for silver dark.Apr 07 14:23
schestowitztoros: it should be called "Free software in education, iseally"Apr 07 14:23
schestowitz*ideally. Linux can be propriety and Novell-encumbered tooApr 07 14:24
torosyes, I know :)Apr 07 14:24
torosBut this is a pretty old nameApr 07 14:24
torosthe first conference was 6 years agoApr 07 14:25
torosand that time the name wasn't so importantApr 07 14:26
schestowitz@trmanco: roses look great too, but they are thorny.Apr 07 14:27
trmancoschestowitz, what is the problem? Novell?Apr 07 14:28
schestowitzYes, we should not make them stronger. SUSE brand recognition too is good for MicrosoftApr 07 14:29
schestowitzHere is Allison explaining why Google et al will threaten FOSS when MSFT is gone. http://www.tuxdeluxe.org/node/293Apr 07 14:30
trmancojust because it's from novell, doesn't mean I can't try it :-PApr 07 14:31
trmancobtw, opensuse uses RPM's, I hate RPM'sApr 07 14:32
schestowitzSure you can try itApr 07 14:32
schestowitzI'm just saying, if we want to end Microsoft's taxation of GNU/Linux, than there's no choice but to advance abolishment of BallnuxesApr 07 14:33
schestowitzLuckily, not any more companies are selling outApr 07 14:33
schestowitzGPLv3 prevents thisApr 07 14:33
schestowitzMoreover, Novell is very weak. Red Hat and Ubuntu eat their lunch on the desktop and server, respectively. So one battle is being won as Microsoft is running out of money and optionsApr 07 14:34
schestowitzIt sells/shuts down parts of itself so they it won't go bankruptApr 07 14:34
schestowitzOn another front you have GNU/Linux sub-notebooks forcing the company to give WIndows for free and Google/OOo do something similar to Office. Microsoft is rightly scared and trying to find haven in software patents.Apr 07 14:35
MinceRthey can still bribe governments, like in hungaryApr 07 14:35
MinceRi think the abolishment should be acceleratedApr 07 14:35
schestowitzSchool Administrator Accused Of Child Porn Because He Investigated Sexting At School < http://techdirt.com/articles/20... >Apr 07 14:37
schestowitzIt's like the dude from yesterday who got detained by the police for handing over a phone that he found.Apr 07 14:37
schestowitzTake-home message: don't investigate abuse, don't return lost property to people.Apr 07 14:38
schestowitzMinceR: I'll do a Comes marathon in the summerApr 07 14:38
schestowitzFox Fires Columnist For 'Reviewing' Leaked Copy Of Wolverine < http://techdirt.com/articles/2... >Apr 07 14:39
schestowitz"ISC-G recommends for approval ODF to be a Malaysian Standard. The only person who can stop it now is the Minister of Science." http://twitter.com/yoonkit/stat...Apr 07 14:42
trmancobrb, kernel updateApr 07 14:44
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schestowitzNovell's de Icaza is doing a lot of damage to Free software again: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/04/...Apr 07 14:46
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trmancohow long did I take? :-PApr 07 14:47
schestowitzTwo minutesApr 07 14:47
schestowitzUK is ideal home for electronic Big Brother  < http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg2... >Apr 07 14:47
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schestowitzThe UK economy is declining too,,so harsher enforcement is needed of people's thoughts, feelings, speech, and action. Shock therapy principles...Apr 07 14:48
trmancohmm, not badApr 07 14:48
schestowitzi ca has 2.6.29? http://img.globalvoicesonline.org/Bad... Apr 07 14:50
schestowitzNovell is infecting devices now, bringing the virus to another company that may have Microsoft knocking on its door. http://tirania.org/blog/archive/2...Apr 07 14:54
trmancooh crapApr 07 14:56
schestowitzFrom Red Hat's CEO to the US government: http://press.redhat.com/2009/04...Apr 07 14:56
trmancohttp://www.linux-foundation.org/we...Apr 07 14:57
schestowitzOne mistake that's made is to assume that !microsoft = bliss and that companies like Red Hat and Novell can solve the nation's problem. Same in Hungary.... money should be SAVED, not given to companies. It should be given people FS hackersApr 07 14:58
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trmancomy favorite -> http://video.linuxfoundation...Apr 07 15:03
schestowitztranscoding.... why doesn't the Linux Foundation actually use open/free FORMATS?!?!Apr 07 15:07
schestowitztrmanco: it's the most professionally done, I thinkApr 07 15:07
schestowitzLinux Pub is good tooApr 07 15:07
trmancoLinux pub has lack of professionalismApr 07 15:08
trmancoogg support in Firefox is still not mainstream yet, maybe that's whyApr 07 15:08
zoobab01can someone manage to play this stream!:Apr 07 15:17
zoobab01http://webstream.ec.europa.eu/scic...Apr 07 15:17
zoobab01it does not play neither with vlc or mplayerApr 07 15:17
zoobab01MS patented technologiesApr 07 15:17
trmancozoobab01, give a minuteApr 07 15:17
trmancome*Apr 07 15:17
trmancozoobab01, no I can't play itApr 07 15:19
schestowitzLF/IBM always think in terms of proprietary codecs. Even Red Hat is still on the verge.Apr 07 15:20
MinceRRH loves sw patentsApr 07 15:21
schestowitz"contrary to industry reports, the company has no plans to discontinue the Neo FreeRunner, and is manufacturing more units, it claims." http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS...Apr 07 15:22
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schestowitzMinceR: I don't think so. Only a couple of people claim that; others refute it, people who were close to itApr 07 15:22
Omar87Hello there.Apr 07 15:23
MinceRso what's up with the "Computer-Implemented Invention" case?Apr 07 15:24
schestowitzhttp://www.webopedia.com/TERM/I... "A buzzword that is used to describe any mobile phone that has the potential to be a threat to the Apple iPhone consumer market dominance. The Android platform is often referred to as an "iPhone Killer". "Apr 07 15:27
schestowitzMinceR: still undecided. Pieter is angryApr 07 15:27
MinceRwho's Pieter?Apr 07 15:27
schestowitzFormer FFII supremerApr 07 15:27
schestowitzNot it's zoobab01 Apr 07 15:27
MinceRjesusPhone killers are dependent on hype and marketing, not technological superiorityApr 07 15:28
MinceR(based on the latter, the jesusPhone is a pathetic failure)Apr 07 15:28
schestowitzThey capitalise on network effectApr 07 15:28
schestowitzStart hyping it upApr 07 15:28
schestowitzThen developers come and build your platformApr 07 15:28
MinceRthey capitalize on human idiocyApr 07 15:28
schestowitzA bit like Zune... only with actual suckers :-)Apr 07 15:28
schestowitzListen to meApr 07 15:29
schestowitzThis is important:Apr 07 15:29
MinceRmaking them celebrate something that's like the j2me platform that has been around for years (except more closed) as something revolutionary and coolApr 07 15:29
schestowitzZune is the future.Apr 07 15:29
schestowitzI'll run your dog, your kettle, it'ff run you crazyApr 07 15:29
MinceR:DApr 07 15:29
schestowitzWhat Zune built on? WinCE?Apr 07 15:30
MinceRi'd guess soApr 07 15:30
schestowitzThey spent a lot of money on that platform.Apr 07 15:30
schestowitzLousy Toshiba device nobody wantedApr 07 15:30
schestowitzThey take good features like Wi-Fi (Internet and all) and turn it into 'squirting' only*Apr 07 15:30
schestowitz*That's what they call sending someone DRM-encumbered song over Wi-Fi... s/he can play it 3 times and whoops! Gone.Apr 07 15:31
schestowitzThe thing ain't compatible with any other DRM system, so all Zune users are f*edApr 07 15:31
schestowitzWait until Zune is officially cancelledApr 07 15:31
schestowitzNot even MICROSOFT"s other DRM devices are compatible with Zune.Apr 07 15:31
schestowitzMSN music shut downApr 07 15:32
schestowitzSo did NotSoSure(TM), aka PlaysForSure... sure sure... !!Apr 07 15:32
MinceRwas zune dependent on msn music?Apr 07 15:32
schestowitzNoApr 07 15:32
schestowitzI don't think soApr 07 15:32
MinceRFailsForSure was already shut down? and was it separate from m$n music?Apr 07 15:32
schestowitzMSN Music was canceled less than a year agoApr 07 15:33
schestowitzFailsForSure == betrayal of partners like MTVApr 07 15:33
schestowitzhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micr...Apr 07 15:34
schestowitz"Recently, Microsoft has decided to rebrand "PlaysForSure" and is using a subset[2][3] of PlaysForSure, namely Certified for Windows Vista.[4] Microsoft's Zune, works only with its own content service called Zune Marketplace, not PlaysForSure."Apr 07 15:34
MinceRoh.Apr 07 15:34
schestowitzhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Msn_music "It started out with 1.5 million songs, but decreased to 1.1 million songs due mainly to lagging sales and lack of real support from Microsoft. The MSN Music store was not compatible with Microsoft's own Zune music player. As of 14 November, 2006, MSN Music ceased music sales and now redirects viewers to either Zune or Real Rhapsody websites."Apr 07 15:35
MinceRa whole little army of incompatible DRM systemsApr 07 15:35
schestowitz"In April 2008, Microsoft announced that the DRM servers for MSN Music will be deactivated on 2008-08-31. After this date it will no longer be possible to reauthorise purchased songs when changing computers or operating systems.[2] They have suggested that customers back up their music by burning it to CD.[3]"Apr 07 15:35
MinceRwhat were they thinking? one of them was bound to survive? :>Apr 07 15:35
schestowitzYay. Who said DRM is a mess? Just buy some blank CDs (pay MAFIAA tax) and do the dance.Apr 07 15:35
MinceR:)Apr 07 15:35
schestowitzHere /we/ are...Apr 07 15:35
schestowitzWith oggs and mp3s.. more 'features'... like magical universality in playbacklApr 07 15:36
schestowitzLike in the 1980sApr 07 15:36
schestowitzMotorola spends $216m on money-saving job cuts < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/0... >. That's what happens when some fools create bubble economies and families have 7 kids (worry about the 3 mortgages later)Apr 07 15:39
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schestowitzbrbApr 07 15:47
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**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Apr 7 15:50:43 2009
*Now talking on #boycottnovellApr 07 15:50
*Topic for #boycottnovell is: "Exploring the reality behind exclusionary deals with Microsoft and their subtle (yet severe) implications" [publicly logged]Apr 07 15:50
*Topic for #boycottnovell set by schestowitz at Sun Oct 5 19:20:28 2008Apr 07 15:50
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*ChanServ gives channel operator status to schestowitzApr 07 15:51
schestowitzMicrosoft already knows that many people will dislike Vista 7 (or can't run it): http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/...Apr 07 16:04
MinceRthe greatest feature of future windows versions might be that windows xp is included ;)Apr 07 16:04
schestowitzMore crime from a company not foreign to bribes, sabotage and blackmail (Intel): http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/n...Apr 07 16:05
schestowitzMinceR: Vista has this feature tooApr 07 16:05
MinceRthere's only a downgrade optionApr 07 16:06
MinceRbut maybe they'll include it in the default installer in the futureApr 07 16:06
schestowitzUntil they come up with an alternative to WindowsApr 07 16:06
schestowitzRight now they just try to sugar-coat something that's dead end, but it only makes it fat, clumsy and incompatible.Apr 07 16:06
MinceRthey already have an alternative, it's called Microsoft Linux, SuSE Edition. ;)Apr 07 16:07
MinceRthey just need to support it.Apr 07 16:07
EruaranMicrosoft is extending XP downgradesApr 07 16:07
EruaranEven after Windows 7 appearsApr 07 16:07
MinceRindeed, that's the topic. :)Apr 07 16:08
EruaranI'd call that the definition of failureApr 07 16:08
schestowitzYes, in advaceApr 07 16:08
MinceRyes, but officially it's called Microsoft Success.Apr 07 16:08
schestowitzThey spent a lot on marketingApr 07 16:08
EruaranI have another definition of failureApr 07 16:08
EruaranNew South Wales DETApr 07 16:09
schestowitzNow they do anti-marketing, unless offering downgrades counts of good publicityApr 07 16:09
schestowitzMicrosoft has already bribed bloggers and sent it to PC enthusiasts with high-end h/wApr 07 16:09
schestowitzI can't wait to see that Vista7 frek ending up on the single-core machines of poor families that make up the majority of the market, esp. in economic gloomApr 07 16:10
EruaranThey are wasting millions of dollars of taxpayer funds on Netbooks with Windows XP on them... and have already comitted to "upgrading" to Windows 7 later... wasting millions more in taxpayer fundsApr 07 16:10
schestowitzVista7 is not what the market needsApr 07 16:10
schestowitzSo they'll stick with XP. Microsoft supplies thisApr 07 16:10
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schestowitzMany go for sub-notebooks. There too there is NO Vista.Apr 07 16:10
EruaranI have a regular who comes in to chat at workApr 07 16:11
EruaranI have enthused a lot to him lately about how impressed I am with Kubuntu 9.04Apr 07 16:11
schestowitzEruaran: organised crime is to be expected in English-speaking countries if the syndicate is AmericanApr 07 16:11
schestowitzGermany or India are less likely to fall for it, not to metion Russia and Brazil.Apr 07 16:11
schestowitzMicrosoft loves counting just sales in the USApr 07 16:12
schestowitzHome of MSFTApr 07 16:12
Eruaranhe brought his PC in today... Windows had locked him out saying it must be activated, basically treating him like a criminal... he's cracked it and wants to try KubuntuApr 07 16:12
schestowitzNPD uses this to pretend the world buys Microsoft... XBox, Vista, Zune, subnotebooks with XP...Apr 07 16:12
schestowitzEruaran: happened to a mate of mine last week... locked out because he's wrongly flaggedApr 07 16:12
Eruaranwhen I say 'cracked it' I mean he lost his temperApr 07 16:12
Eruaranschestowitz: yes, same thingApr 07 16:13
schestowitzI put him on the KDE page... he stared at it for a long time considering the moveApr 07 16:13
schestowitzMany people don't know about LinuxApr 07 16:13
schestowitzSometimes they just hear about it. Once they know and see it, the perspective changesApr 07 16:14
schestowitzMac vs PC (Windows)  ---> Windows vs FreeApr 07 16:14
EruaranI've enthused so much to this guy he basically said, "SCREW THESE BASTARDS, PUT LINUX ON MY COMPUTER FOR ME!"Apr 07 16:14
Eruaranschestowitz: yes, thats why we have a demo system with a linux distro on itApr 07 16:14
EruaranIt breaks down a lot of barriersApr 07 16:15
schestowitzROTFLMAO. GM is trying to go out of business  a lot faster. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/bu...Apr 07 16:15
schestowitzWhen ch11 comes in they'll ask, "what happened??" It was a "seaway accident," they'll reply.Apr 07 16:17
MinceRi just hope the Chevrolet Volt doesn't die :)Apr 07 16:18
schestowitzWhy?Apr 07 16:21
schestowitzThere's a joke that I don't get.Apr 07 16:21
EruaranGM have lost the plotApr 07 16:22
MinceRit seems to be a nice car.Apr 07 16:22
MinceRserial hybridApr 07 16:22
MinceRplug-in, of courseApr 07 16:22
MinceRthey call it an extensible range electric vehicleApr 07 16:22
MinceR(it isn't in production yet)Apr 07 16:23
EruaranThe Volt looks niceApr 07 16:23
EruaranBut in general I think GM have lost itApr 07 16:24
EruaranDumping trucks and big vehicles, good... wierd looking single person 35mph electric vehicles that only run for an hour on one charge for 2012... bad...Apr 07 16:25
EruaranWhy cant they just knuckle down and produce some decent smaller more environmentally friendly economical cars now instead of hair brained stuff probably nobody will ever buyApr 07 16:26
EruaranThey seem to have gone from one silly extreme to anotherApr 07 16:27
EruaranThe Volt maybe being the exceptionApr 07 16:27
schestowitztessier: Vietnam is investing in Free software: http://english.vietnamnet.vn/IT...Apr 07 16:27
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schestowitzWho would buy (or be able to afford) a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C... in 2011?Apr 07 16:29
schestowitzThey live on borrowed stimulus time (both GM and the public)Apr 07 16:29
schestowitzAnti-Free software masqueraded as polite advice: http://www.cxotoday.com/India/News/How_O...Apr 07 16:33
MinceRthere still are a lot of wealthy peopleApr 07 16:33
schestowitzHow many?Apr 07 16:33
schestowitzI know how wealthy but also how many (maybe a couple of million in the US)Apr 07 16:33
schestowitzit's like saying there still are a lot of wealthy countriesApr 07 16:34
MinceRi don't knowApr 07 16:34
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schestowitzNPD is not only an MS puppet; it also deceived with IS-only figures. Just look what it did with Zune and XBox, even Vista. They use selective statistics, very often to vilify their clients' competitors. Right now they attack Linux by ignoring high sales outside the US. Gartner and IDC have similar tricks up their sleeves, and luxurious contracts with Microsoft.Apr 07 16:50
schestowitz /s/IS/US/Apr 07 16:50
schestowitzbe careful of NPD whenever you see it coming up.Apr 07 16:52
trmancohahaha, ms to offer free downgrade no 7 users? omfgApr 07 17:09
trmancoto*Apr 07 17:09
zer0c00lschestowitz, there?Apr 07 17:09
zer0c00lschestowitz, tom-tom agreed to pay M$ ?Apr 07 17:09
zer0c00lFAT cannot be used?Apr 07 17:10
*zer0c00l readsApr 07 17:13
*zer0c00l thats an old story :PApr 07 17:13
zer0c00l*findsApr 07 17:13
zer0c00l"When it counts, it appears that Microsoft still actively seeks to undermine those technologies or standards that are truly open, especially when those technologies pose a significant threat to their business."Apr 07 17:14
zer0c00lhttp://www.linuxdevices.com...Apr 07 17:14
zer0c00lold oneApr 07 17:14
zer0c00lMany popular linux distributions have native support for FAT..why M$ cant sue the distribution vendors? They are afraid? or They cannot?Apr 07 17:18
schestowitzThey tryApr 07 17:29
schestowitzQuietlyApr 07 17:29
schestowitzAnother post coming.Apr 07 17:29
schestowitzGood news! Big Nokia likely to sell Linux MIDs http://apcmag.com/nokia-to-rel... ( Nokia to release a netbook? )Apr 07 17:30
schestowitzGood news! NOVL downgraded again.Apr 07 17:30
Balroghi everyoneApr 07 17:40
schestowitzzer0c00l: don't mistake the TomTom case for an MS win. They are on their death bed, so they leech other companies at the expense of their image and antitrust statusApr 07 17:40
Balroghttp://www.9to5mac.com/Microsoft-m... ... that comment is funny .... (not pro-mac BTW)Apr 07 17:41
schestowitzHard Times May Boost Linux in Financial Services < http://www.hpcwire.com/features/Hard-Times-Ma... >Apr 07 17:41
schestowitzheh. Well, H-P suffered a lot from VistaApr 07 17:42
schestowitzThe 'capable' lawsuit showed angry E-mails from the heads at H-PApr 07 17:42
Balrogyes.Apr 07 17:43
Balrogif microsoft keeps advertising based on price / capability, they will very likely lose a good portion to LinuxApr 07 17:44
schestowitzPrice?Apr 07 17:46
schestowitz$4 for XPApr 07 17:46
Balrogbut that's lacking in capabilityApr 07 17:46
Balrogcurrent Linux is much more capable than XPApr 07 17:46
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Balrogalso did you see this? http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?si...Apr 07 17:48
Balrog<< XP Reprieve, Downgrade May Continue After Win7Apr 07 17:48
Balrog<<"Not only will users be able to keep Windows Vista, but they'll be able to step back in time two generations, all the way to XP. "We will offer downgrade rights from Windows 7 to Windows XP in the same way we did with Windows Vista," a Microsoft rep said.>>Apr 07 17:49
zer0c00lthis shows that they aren't confident in vista 7 tooApr 07 17:51
Balrogyes.Apr 07 17:52
schestowitzIt has the V wordApr 07 17:56
Balrogwindows 7 is vista at the coreApr 07 17:58
schestowitzIt has expensive marketing campaign, more than Mojave. W-E was paid a lot by Microsoft to bribe bloggers with laptops, for example.Apr 07 18:04
Balrogyeah. :/Apr 07 18:06
balzacmicrosoft is really having a core dumpApr 07 18:08
trmancobalzac, I would say multiple core dumpsApr 07 18:09
tessier_mehApr 07 18:10
balzacI don't even want to see the log...Apr 07 18:10
tessier_I've been hearing about MS having issues for years. Haven't seen any change in their behavior yet.Apr 07 18:10
schestowitzBalrog: encrata isn't the last in this logApr 07 18:15
schestowitztessier: which behaviour?Apr 07 18:15
schestowitzThe fact that they sue LinuxApr 07 18:15
schestowitzThe fact that Windows is sold for $5?Apr 07 18:15
tessier_All of the above.Apr 07 18:15
tessier_Same old dirty tricks for years.Apr 07 18:15
schestowitzThe fact that they corrupt ISO and have investigations around the world launched to retaliate for the crimes?Apr 07 18:15
tessier_I'm hoping netbooks will change things.Apr 07 18:15
tessier_Especially when the ARM based netbooks come out.Apr 07 18:16
schestowitzLinux is said to be growing in market share there.Apr 07 18:16
tessier_I'm really looking forward to Intel and MS losing their hegemony.Apr 07 18:16
schestowitztessier: yes, ARMApr 07 18:16
schestowitzWill raise the market share vs. $4 XP (or $5) to 33% from 25%Apr 07 18:16
schestowitzAccording to ABIApr 07 18:16
trmancohttp://danishkanavin.blogspot.com/2009/0...Apr 07 18:16
schestowitztessier: Intel just got whackedApr 07 18:16
schestowitzCrime... tax evasionApr 07 18:16
schestowitzIntel's profits sank 90$ in the last quarterApr 07 18:17
schestowitzI think their 'next' Q is this month, same with MSFT'sApr 07 18:17
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balzacThe executives will be wearing depends under-garmentsApr 07 18:21
balzacat the quarterly meetingApr 07 18:21
balzacEveryone in the board room is going to have a core-dumpApr 07 18:22
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schestowitzNot many are leftApr 07 18:25
schestowitzA lot of MS Presidents and VPs have left in 2007-9Apr 07 18:25
balzacthey took the money and ranApr 07 18:27
balzacthe top of the pyramid-scheme is leeching the substance out of the companyApr 07 18:28
trmancohttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek/Apr 07 18:28
schestowitzBalrog: they did take some moneyApr 07 18:28
schestowitz*balzac... sorryApr 07 18:28
balzacsoon it will collapse and be derided as a ponzi schemeApr 07 18:28
schestowitzNot so soon.Apr 07 18:28
schestowitzMy friend thinks November is when the glue (stimulus) will come looseApr 07 18:29
schestowitzMicrosoft has some crucial data, so I kid you not -- bailout is an optionApr 07 18:29
schestowitzBallmer urged for it strongly last year and this yearApr 07 18:29
balzacsheeshApr 07 18:29
schestowitzMicrosoft is not immune, he argued openlyApr 07 18:29
schestowitzThey issue debt nowApr 07 18:29
balzacRoy, I already figured it could come to thatApr 07 18:30
schestowitz$5 bn the last time this was statedApr 07 18:30
balzacI figured that M$, being a part of the police-state apparatus, would ultimately be subsidized for it's freedom-quelling capabilities.Apr 07 18:30
schestowitzClosing down Encarta, MSN Music, Ensemble Studio, Flight Simulator and on (oh, and firing many employees) will save them a bundleApr 07 18:30
balzacthis was before any bail-outs happenedApr 07 18:30
schestowitzThe question is, can core product fill the void?Apr 07 18:30
schestowitz$3 Windows..Apr 07 18:30
schestowitzYou need to sell lots of THOSEApr 07 18:31
balzacit just clicked in my mind - proprietary software, DRM - these methods of controlling people would not be allowed to perish just because Microsoft is not solvent.Apr 07 18:31
schestowitzAnd you rely on people being able to afford a sub-notebooks per child or whatever.Apr 07 18:31
balzacI might have even predicted that in hereApr 07 18:31
balzacI'm like a "mentat" from Frank Herbert's Dune... How did I see it coming, even before the first bail-out.Apr 07 18:32
schestowitzWhich one?Apr 07 18:33
balzacThat Microsoft would be subsidized (bail-out = same) if they become insolvent because control of people has a high market-value to governments.Apr 07 18:34
schestowitzMore like medical dataApr 07 18:35
schestowitzThat's why they enteredApr 07 18:35
schestowitzNot my opinion BTW, others' whose opinion I read years ago when Microsoft beganApr 07 18:35
schestowitzIt offered free (gratis) s/w for some key datacentresApr 07 18:36
schestowitzThey'll also LOVE to put critical data in OOXMLApr 07 18:36
schestowitzOnly a fool would put his/her (o citizens') in a format which depends on one dying company whose value was halved in one yearApr 07 18:36
tessier_Microsoft bail-out? Not likely.Apr 07 18:37
tessier_It would kill their stock price if it became known that they were somehow in danger of going under unless they got a bail-out.Apr 07 18:37
schestowitztessier: that's why I said "not yet/so fat"Apr 07 18:39
schestowitztessier: FWIIW, let me give you refsApr 07 18:39
schestowitzBallmer: Congress must 'stabilize' financial crisis < http://news.cnet.com/8301-10805_3-1005... >; Ballmer says Microsoft not immune from global crisis < http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080930/bs_... >; Microsoft calls on Congress to reconsider bailout < http://news.cnet.com/8301-13860_3-...Apr 07 18:40
schestowitz0-20 >Apr 07 18:40
schestowitzThat last one again: http://news.cnet.com/8301-13860... I have more if you are interested. Ballmer also snuck into the Big Guns recently to lobby for bailout.Apr 07 18:41
schestowitzNokia is hiring for GNU/Linux: http://www.nokia.com/imaginemaemoApr 07 18:45
trmancoI'm still waiting for the ARM netbooksApr 07 18:47
schestowitzMore cameras and routers run Linux now... http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/... http://www.h-online.com/open/Foner...Apr 07 18:49
schestowitztrmanco: July IIRCApr 07 18:49
tessier_Microsoft wants places bailed out and the economy rescued so big companies can continue paying their license fees.Apr 07 18:49
trmancogrr, can't wait, I might buy one myselfApr 07 18:50
schestowitztessier: I thought about that, but look at Microsoft's finances.Apr 07 18:51
schestowitzhttp://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news... (Microsoft May Sell Debt in First-Ever Bond Offering (Update1))Apr 07 18:52
schestowitzMicrosoft investors 'hang on to dream' < http://www.techflash.com/microsof... >Apr 07 18:52
schestowitzMicrosoft should issue debt for a buyback--analyst < http://www.reuters.com/article/mark... >Apr 07 18:53
schestowitzMicrosoft loses 90 Billion Dollars [in less than a year] < http://slated.org/microsoft_l... >Apr 07 18:53
schestowitzDetails about Firefox 3.6: http://mozillalinks.org/wp/2009/04/deskto... http://arstechnica.com/open-source/ne...Apr 07 18:57
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tessier_Losing $90B in market value is very different from losing $90B in cash.Apr 07 19:11
tessier_MS isn't selling any stock and does not need to raise any money.Apr 07 19:11
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EruaranIf I was a shareholder I wouldn't be happyApr 07 19:12
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EruaranI'd bailApr 07 19:12
tessier_Right. You'd bail. But what does that mean for MS?Apr 07 19:12
tessier_Why would MS care if you bailed?Apr 07 19:12
EruaranI know a lot of their shareholders are not happyApr 07 19:13
tessier_They could easily buy back the stock cheaply and gain more control.Apr 07 19:13
EruaranSweaty with more control can only be a good thing for fee softwareApr 07 19:14
schestowitztessier: they can't buy back stockApr 07 19:15
schestowitzThey bought too mucApr 07 19:15
schestowitzTheir latest buybacks takes them into debtApr 07 19:15
EruaranLuddites has a way of becoming redundant no matter how much damage they doApr 07 19:15
schestowitzRead the references carefully.Apr 07 19:15
Eruaranschestowitz: Did you know Miguel de Icaza is no 2 at Novell now ?Apr 07 19:16
tessier_After the latest stock buyback: That still left Microsoft with $23.6 billion in cash and short-term investments — much less than the $60 billion it had on its balance sheet in 2004 when investors and analysts were clamoring for a better use of the treasury.Apr 07 19:18
balzacMiguel will be the last one there - "when the music's over", he'll "turn out the lights".Apr 07 19:18
BalrogEruaran: URL?Apr 07 19:18
tessier_Miguel is awfully young isn't he? How can have the experience to be #2 at Novell?Apr 07 19:18
tessier_Doesn't he enjoy coding?Apr 07 19:18
schestowitzEruaran: I doubt itApr 07 19:19
schestowitzIn what sense?Apr 07 19:19
schestowitzTechnical?Apr 07 19:19
EruaranI may have misread, I'll checkApr 07 19:19
schestowitzVice president doesn't mean no.2Apr 07 19:19
schestowitzThere are many VPsApr 07 19:19
schestowitzLike Simon Phipps, Bob Sutor, even Michael Tiemann IIRCApr 07 19:19
schestowitztessier: no, they use up those piles for buybacksApr 07 19:20
schestowitzAbout $30bnApr 07 19:20
schestowitzIt was in Associated PressApr 07 19:20
schestowitzI'll try to find itApr 07 19:20
tessier_They still have tens of billions in cash.Apr 07 19:20
schestowitzHow do you know?Apr 07 19:20
schestowitzEcuador Tax Agency Closes Microsoft Branch Offices For 7 DaysApr 07 19:21
schestowitz,----[ Quote ]Apr 07 19:21
schestowitz| "We have twice requested balances, payment reports and complete taxApr 07 19:21
schestowitz| information, but the company hasn't given it to us, so in accordance with ourApr 07 19:21
schestowitz| laws we have proceeded with the closure," the SRI official in charge of theApr 07 19:21
schestowitz| proceeding said. € Apr 07 19:21
schestowitz`----Apr 07 19:21
schestowitzhttp://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeed...Apr 07 19:21
schestowitzMicrosoft Office raid in HungaryApr 07 19:21
schestowitz,----[ Quote ]Apr 07 19:21
schestowitz| "Such behavior could lead to the exclusion of competitive products fromApr 07 19:21
schestowitz| the market and violate European Union rules, according to the authorityApr 07 19:21
schestowitz| known as the GVH."Apr 07 19:21
schestowitz`----Apr 07 19:21
schestowitzhttp://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/200...Apr 07 19:21
schestowitzMicrosoft exec dumped stock prior to Red Ring announcementApr 07 19:21
schestowitz,----[ Quote ]Apr 07 19:21
schestowitz| To make matters more murky, the sales were not registered with the SecuritiesApr 07 19:21
schestowitz| and Exchange Commission within the mandatory two days of the transaction, aApr 07 19:21
schestowitz| result of an alleged "administrative error." Microsoft has since remedied theApr 07 19:21
schestowitz| issue by following the "procedures required of late-filers." € Apr 07 19:21
schestowitz`----Apr 07 19:21
schestowitzhttp://arstechnica.com/journals/thum...Apr 07 19:21
schestowitz  End of signed messageApr 07 19:21
Eruaranmust have misread... I'm half asleepApr 07 19:21
tessier_The reasons they issue debt are complicated but it makes sense now. Similar to how a lot of people were refinancing cash out of their homes and investing it in other things with higher yields. Debt is not always a bad thing.Apr 07 19:21
schestowitzOops. Wrong pasteApr 07 19:21
schestowitzSorryApr 07 19:21
schestowitztessier: http://web.archive.org/web/20...Apr 07 19:21
schestowitzFinancial fraud is business as usual at MicrosoftApr 07 19:21
schestowitzWhen asked about it their excuse is that everyone does itrApr 07 19:22
schestowitzNow that the economy collapses people understand that it's not OKApr 07 19:22
schestowitzThese are pyramid schemes.. many of them.Apr 07 19:22
schestowitztessier: your tune has changed, though.Apr 07 19:22
tessier_Cash, cash equivalents, and short-term investments totaled $20.7 billion as of December 31, 2008, compared with $23.7 billion as of June 30, 2008. http://www.microsoft.com/msft/I...Apr 07 19:23
tessier_schestowitz: My tune?Apr 07 19:23
tessier_No doubt they are engaging in shady practices. But it seems perfectly reasonable to me that they really do have all that cash. Tons of people are forced to buy their stuff.Apr 07 19:25
schestowitztessier: microsoft.com as a source?Apr 07 19:25
schestowitztessier: the cash belongs to peopleApr 07 19:25
schestowitzLess to the companyApr 07 19:26
tessier_schestowitz: They file that with the SEC. What better source is there?Apr 07 19:26
schestowitzIt's like AIGApr 07 19:26
tessier_What people?Apr 07 19:26
schestowitzLet me suggest a reading.Apr 07 19:26
schestowitzSEC is corruptApr 07 19:26
schestowitzI don;'t trust it eitherApr 07 19:26
schestowitzNeither should youApr 07 19:26
schestowitzIt lost its reputationApr 07 19:26
schestowitzA year before SCO's ch11 for example it let them off the bookApr 07 19:26
tessier_How so?Apr 07 19:26
schestowitzAnd as the press will tell you, they didn't do their jobsApr 07 19:26
schestowitzRead about the SEC fiascosApr 07 19:26
tessier_There's a difference between corruption, incompetence, and hindsight.Apr 07 19:27
schestowitzGroklaw covers someApr 07 19:27
schestowitzIncompetence mostlyApr 07 19:27
schestowitzBut negligence in this role can be accomplice equivalentApr 07 19:27
schestowitzLike... if the execs pay you to turn a blind eyeApr 07 19:27
tessier_Having done a lot of travel in truly corrupt countries I am careful when I use that word.Apr 07 19:27
schestowitzNovell too was under fireApr 07 19:27
schestowitzSEC...Apr 07 19:27
tessier_I am also careful not to take things for granted.Apr 07 19:27
schestowitzPaid some millions to walk away..Apr 07 19:27
tessier_And I try to be even more careful not to delude myself with wishful thinking.Apr 07 19:28
schestowitztessier: you also live in oneApr 07 19:28
schestowitzSo do IApr 07 19:28
schestowitzThe question is one of frequencyApr 07 19:28
tessier_That's what I'm talking about. You seem ready to flush it all down the crapper.Apr 07 19:28
tessier_UK, US, throw it all away and start over right?Apr 07 19:28
trmancohttp://libre.fm/Apr 07 19:31
trmanco:DApr 07 19:31
schestowitztessier: there is an index for corruptionApr 07 19:33
tessier_Yes, I knowApr 07 19:33
tessier_Compare US UK with Russia Or VietnamApr 07 19:33
schestowitzCorruption is a 'norm' everywhere. You need to find out where.Apr 07 19:33
schestowitzAs in, which companies and _how much_Apr 07 19:34
schestowitzThat Microsoft breaks tax laws is a factApr 07 19:34
schestowitzThat Microsoft was caught engaging in fraud (fianncial) too it pretty much a factApr 07 19:34
schestowitzHas it changed its ways?Apr 07 19:34
schestowitzThe 'New' Microsoft?Apr 07 19:34
schestowitzThe one that sues FOSS?Apr 07 19:34
schestowitzAnd no longer by proxy?Apr 07 19:34
Eruaranhttp://www.telstrabusiness.com/business/port...Apr 07 19:37
Eruaran"T-Suite"Apr 07 19:38
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tessier_Corruption isn't the norm in the UK or the US. It exists but it isn't normal.Apr 07 19:48
tessier_I have never in my life been solicited for a bribe nor have I offered one. In the US or the UK.Apr 07 19:48
tessier_I just don't find that sort of "damn it all" cynicism to be conducive to a healthy society. We should be trying to remove corruption when we find it but not just giving up on the whole works even when it is 99% good.Apr 07 19:49
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Omar87HiApr 07 19:50
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tessier_I have always liked the dictum "Our country right or wrong. When right, to be kept right; when wrong, to be put right."Apr 07 19:51
tessier_It works well for Britain and for the US.Apr 07 19:51
tessier_I found out what corruption is in Mexico and in Vietnam. I was solicited for bribes and saw others paying bribes with my own eyes.Apr 07 19:52
tessier_They have a saying in Mexico, "Por eso, Mexico esta' como esta'." which means "This is why Mexico is the way it is."Apr 07 19:52
tessier_You bring a Vietnamese or a Mexican to the US and they'll marvel at how little corruption there is. I know because I've done it.Apr 07 19:52
tessier_If you know of corruption you should expose it. But be careful not to kid yourself.Apr 07 19:53
tessier_I agree that there was a lot of corruption in the banking system. Not just in the US but in the whole world. No one person did it in this case. But a lot of people just looked the other way.Apr 07 19:53
tessier_It took all of those people looking the other way to cause this mess.Apr 07 19:53
*schestowitz watches http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aW9P...Apr 07 19:54
tessier_I'm not into chauvinistic nationalism but I'm not about to throw the baby out with the bathwater.Apr 07 19:54
schestowitztessier: thanks, I appreciate this infoApr 07 19:54
schestowitztessier: I agree that it cannot be defeated, but there's something to do to counter it.Apr 07 19:55
tessier_DefinitelyApr 07 19:55
schestowitztessier: if you do it, it's because you careApr 07 19:55
schestowitzNot because you hateApr 07 19:55
schestowitzIf people stop making corrective remarks, it's a bad sign. it means they simply gave up.Apr 07 19:56
tessier_Right.Apr 07 19:56
tessier_But to praise is just as important to punish. As anyone who raises kids or even dogs will know.Apr 07 19:56
tessier_as important asApr 07 19:56
tessier_Surely someone has to lead the country, sit in parliament, congress, etc.Apr 07 19:57
schestowitzWe all commend some thingsApr 07 19:57
schestowitzI don't commend MicrosoftApr 07 19:57
schestowitzThey don't deserve it.Apr 07 19:57
tessier_Indeed they don't.Apr 07 19:58
tessier_"Some analysts and investors have urged executives to further trim the cash balance and use debt to buy back even more stock." - http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/ht...Apr 07 20:01
tessier_Debt has uses beyond just borrowing money when you need itApr 07 20:01
EruaranThe borrower is servant to the lenderApr 07 20:10
tessier_Sure. But MS took commercial grade paper at 2% for up to 3 months. That's not of a servant.Apr 07 20:11
Omar87HiApr 07 20:12
schestowitzHey, Omar87 Apr 07 20:13
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MinceRcrApple is attacking web standards again >> http://yro.slashdot.org/article.p...Apr 07 20:22
tessier_schestowitz: I saw your twitter about Vietnam funding OSS. That's another area where corruption is unlikely to result in any movement at all in the OSS area.Apr 07 20:23
tessier_There is zero transparency in accounting over there. The money is likely to end up in someones pocket and no code will come of it.Apr 07 20:23
tessier_They are making OSS a political football to toss around.Apr 07 20:23
tessier_Speaking of corruption, the conviction of Senator Ted Stevens was thrown out. Hrm.Apr 07 20:27
tessier_Was Stevens corrupt? Was the first court corrupt in convicting him? Was the second court corrupt in throwing out the conviction? Was the first court not corrupt but simply in error? Was the second court?Apr 07 20:29
tessier_I still agree with the sentiment that it is better to let 10 guilty men go free than to put one innocent man in prison.Apr 07 20:31
tessier_Besides, he's 85. So I'm not too bothered by this. Now he will have plenty of time to enjoy his computer and let the big trucks dump information in his tubes.Apr 07 20:32
tessier_Apparently the prosecutors made serious errors.Apr 07 20:35
schestowitzMinceR: old newsApr 07 20:35
schestowitztessier: yes, I heard about itApr 07 20:35
schestowitzAppalling.Apr 07 20:35
schestowitzThat's why I tell you corruption prevailsApr 07 20:35
schestowitzIt doesn't work (the law) against Big CriminalsApr 07 20:35
schestowitzIt always 'works' (;magically') against people who are dark-skinned for exampleApr 07 20:36
schestowitzThat's what the law is forApr 07 20:36
schestowitzTo keep the 'responsible' adults in charge, not to resort orderApr 07 20:36
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schestowitzI advise you to watch that video I posted earlierApr 07 20:36
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MinceRif only we had responsible adultsApr 07 20:39
taconehey, heard the tomboy news ?Apr 07 20:39
taconetomboy ported to c++ ?Apr 07 20:40
schestowitzYAY!Apr 07 20:40
schestowitzGNOME cleansed.Apr 07 20:40
schestowitzDid they give a reason?Apr 07 20:40
taconehttp://www.stefanoforenza.com/to...Apr 07 20:40
taconewellApr 07 20:40
taconeyesApr 07 20:40
taconeit's a forkApr 07 20:40
schestowitzCool.Apr 07 20:40
taconethe guy says he's so boredApr 07 20:40
taconebecause unemployedApr 07 20:40
taconebecause novell layed him off.Apr 07 20:41
tacone....Apr 07 20:41
taconelolApr 07 20:41
schestowitzReally...Apr 07 20:41
taconeyesApr 07 20:41
taconeread my postApr 07 20:41
schestowitzWhen?Apr 07 20:41
taconethere's linksApr 07 20:41
schestowitzNo Novell, no monoApr 07 20:41
taconewell, he supported the proposal of a tomboy port 2 years ago anyway.Apr 07 20:41
schestowitzNow he can use the p/l he really wants, maybe..Apr 07 20:41
taconethe proposal was made by another guy. who never did the port.Apr 07 20:42
taconeso when he got layed offApr 07 20:42
taconehe did.Apr 07 20:42
schestowitzOh, FebruaryApr 07 20:42
schestowitzSo maybe it's the old bundle of layoffsApr 07 20:42
schestowitzNovell doesn't announce themApr 07 20:42
taconegnome is not cleansed anywaysApr 07 20:42
taconef-spot.Apr 07 20:42
taconeand there's a bunch of non-default apps which belongs to the gnome project anywaysApr 07 20:43
schestowitzHmmmmm... http://www.google.com/search?q=sit...Apr 07 20:43
schestowitztacone: yes, but non-defaultApr 07 20:43
taconethe potentially more dangerous being a generic plugin downloaderApr 07 20:43
taconethat plugin downloaderApr 07 20:43
schestowitztomboy on mono was problematic for a particular reason sApr 07 20:43
schestowitzsearch BN for detailsApr 07 20:43
taconeis being adopted already by the deskbar-applet (which is default)Apr 07 20:43
schestowitzLots of history about it.. 2007Apr 07 20:44
taconei don't support that plugin downloader for other reasons, not only for the language choice.Apr 07 20:44
taconebut that would be potentially adoptable by many other apps.Apr 07 20:44
taconeanyways that's a great newsApr 07 20:46
taconeand there's already an ubuntu ppa.Apr 07 20:46
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Omar87schestowitz: I liked that video from the Linux foundation. :)Apr 07 20:54
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schestowitzOmar87: glad you did. Took a while to post because of the ogg.Apr 07 21:02
MinceRhttp://img.waffleimages.com/8a17...Apr 07 21:35
PetoKrausgoodApr 07 21:38
PetoKrausvery goodApr 07 21:38
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schestowitzMinceR: he saw the future.Apr 07 21:47
trmancoHackers seize on zero-day flaw in Microsoft's PowerPoint: http://www.infoworld.com/d/security-cent...Apr 07 21:48
schestowitzYes, old news by nowApr 07 21:51
schestowitzMicrosoft sez "heh... not many attacks yet.."Apr 07 21:51
trmancoyeah, I'm sort of catching upApr 07 21:52
schestowitzOh, you were awayApr 07 21:57
trmanco:-pApr 07 21:58
MinceR:)Apr 07 22:03
schestowitzState-owned RBS to axe 9,500 workers < http://www.theregister.co.uk/200... >Apr 07 22:08
trmancohttp://www.datacenterknowledge.com/...Apr 07 22:08
schestowitzBN loses touch sometimesApr 07 22:09
schestowitzI doubt it's related thoughApr 07 22:09
schestowitzOther sites seemed less responsive recently (unavilable at times)Apr 07 22:09
schestowitzMicrosoft's PR department must have been drunk if it allowed this to come out so early: http://www.channelregister.co.uk/...Apr 07 22:10
werehedgehogwowApr 07 22:10
schestowitzMS: "Here's your lobster... and here... is the puke bucket. Enjoy your meal"Apr 07 22:11
schestowitzThe AP's Desperate Attempt To Outlaw Search Engine Links < http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2... >Apr 07 22:15
PetoKrauswho's AP?Apr 07 22:21
schestowitzAssociated GangstersApr 07 22:23
schestowitzCool, but not energy-efficient: http://blog.wired.com/cars/2009/04... (It's Not a Flying Car — It's a Driveable Airplane)Apr 07 22:23
schestowitzhttp://www.rightpundits.com/?p=3674 (AP Attempts to Shut Bloggers Out )Apr 07 22:24
schestowitz'For a while now, the AP has had been fighting this insane war against bloggers who quote and use snippets of their articles in blog posts. About a year or so ago the AP decided they would try to charge bloggers and other sites $2.50 cents per word and threatened to sue anyone who did not comply with their dumb “copyright” scheme.'Apr 07 22:24
*trmanco has quit ()Apr 07 22:36
schestowitz"is wondering why Microsoft Excel does not accept ODF format files while Open Office does accept xls sheets .... another point for OpenOffice" http://twitter.com/hwiggerm/...Apr 07 22:37
schestowitzI hear from friends that this could harm Firefox for Linux: Google 'Chromium' pre-alpha available for Ubuntu users http://www.neowin.net/news/software/09...Apr 07 22:43
Balrog_schestowitz: FOSS?Apr 07 22:43
schestowitzNopeApr 07 22:43
schestowitzNot Chrome anywayApr 07 22:44
MinceRafaik Chromium is FLOSSApr 07 22:45
MinceRand someone will probably make more privacy-friendly versionsApr 07 22:45
MinceRiirc they've done it with windows Chromium alreadyApr 07 22:45
schestowitzYesApr 07 22:48
schestowitzBut to make something privacy-aware for Windows is like putting a safe on the front desk of a brothelApr 07 22:54
schestowitzWindows is spyware, by definitionApr 07 22:54
Balrog_schestowitz: what to do about games that are only for windows?Apr 07 22:55
MinceRhaving to keep windows for games is unfortunateApr 07 22:56
MinceRbut the os matters less thenApr 07 22:56
MinceRfor example if windows crashes, all you lose is your gaming since the last time you savedApr 07 22:56
MinceRthe failings of the gui are less significant if one app manages the whole screen rawApr 07 22:57
MinceRand the flaws of the task scheduler are probably less importantApr 07 22:57
schestowitzzoobab01: http://www.google.com/search?hl=...Apr 07 23:00
schestowitzBalrog: people move gradually, not cold turkeyApr 07 23:01
schestowitzThey can play some old games and buy new games that run on GNU/LinuxApr 07 23:01
schestowitzThen, later on, their 'nostalgia stash' will run under Wine.Apr 07 23:02
schestowitzWindows Is Not on 96% of Netbooks < http://www.microsoft-watch.com/content/... >Apr 07 23:15
schestowitzgnApr 07 23:15
MinceRo/Apr 07 23:16
MinceRgnApr 07 23:17
*_Hicham_ (i=c40cf563@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-a1fa8276b7c2c7c2) has joined #boycottnovellApr 07 23:36
_Hicham_Hi Roy!Apr 07 23:37
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Balrog_what about Cedega?Apr 07 23:57

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