Re: Debian + KDE disk

[Paul J Thompson <thomppj@okstate.edu>]

Before I say anything, I want to apologize for anything I say here which
may offend anyone.  My intention is to offer my opinions and not to
attack anyone.  Please read on.

Manoj Srivastava wrote: 
> Hi,
> >>"Christoph" == Christoph Lameter <clameter@waterf.org> writes:
>
> Christoph> It should be promoted and supported by us especially since
> Christoph> this is a chance to make Debian mainstream. They are even
> Christoph> supporting us financially!
> 
>         It is making us mainstream? It is making us more money? That
>  is why it should be supported? These sound like Microsofts goals
>  (bless them), rather than Debian's. I do not want us to make more
>  money, really, or even be popular, at the expense of freedom of
>  software.

I don't believe that is what Christoph was saying.  I simply think he
was looking at the bigger picture.  When he commented about making
Debian "mainstream" he was simply expressing the simple desire to get
more people using it.  When I started using Linux, I started with Redhat
because I heard great things about it.  Then I saw better things when I
read some Debian stuff and I switched to Debian.  Why?  Because B think
it is better.

Because I want to see Linux succeed, first and foremost.  And then,
because I think debian is the best distribution, I want to see Debian
succeed.

Let us not get so religiously Debian (not that I blame you in anyway)
that we begin to overlook the reality that, in order to be successful,
Debian is going to have to have a commercial implementation.  And the
likelyhood is that we won't like the way it is done entirely.  We just
need to be glad it _is_ being done.  Thinks like LinuxPress and this
german company (or whatever) are good.

The only thing we could do to make sure we agree with the commercial
implementation of Debian is to release it ourselves.  But then we
wouldn't be Debian (we would be Redhat)...

Wnd when I say "commercial implementation" I simply mean we need someone
to box and sell Debian.  With this box should come some kind of official
support.  It makes some companies and some people feel good to have
payed for their software.  Otherwise they think they are using
shareware, which Linux is not.

I want to be able to go to Hasting's (a bookstore chain in the U.S.) and
find Debian on the shelf.  (actually I want my friends to find it there,
but that is a different story.)  I want to see it in the college
bookstore next to those non-free OS.  (what were they called again???)

> Christoph> I am horrified by some of the dogmatic and ideological
> Christoph> reactions I have seen.
> 
>         And I am appalled at the callous disregard of the tenets of a
>  *Free* Linux distribution that I see. So we differ in our opinions.

Gee, let's all use strong words and just make each other angry at each
other.  Come on, we are all on the same side.  Let's not attack each
other.

> Christoph> Such actions (as Bruce's response) are a PR catastrophe and
> Christoph> do great harm to the Debian Project. Who wants to cooperate
> Christoph> with Debian given such inflexible views? The ugly year-old
> Christoph> prejudices against Debian get confirmed it seems.

First I want to say that I think Bruce does an excellent job.  Debian is
a hard group of people of which to manage.

And Christoph's words are kind of harsh.  However, I do agree that we
don't want to turn people off from Debian in spite of ourselves. 

>         Nobidy said that supporting free software was gonna be
>  easy. 'Tis oft a lonely road we tread ...

Lonely, aren't there currently millions of people using Linux?  I don't
mean to be insulting, manoj, and I apologize for the sarcasm -- I just
want to make sure we remember we are also friends with Redhat,
Slackware, and those other distributions.

> Christoph> The issue of the non-freeness of Qt will go away in one
> Christoph> form or another given enough popular use by software.
> 
>         Enough popular use is how we decide what is OK? Guess which OS
>  has the most copies out there? Is popularity of software to decide
>  how we comport ourselves?
> 
> Christoph> The same thing happened to other Linux software
> Christoph> packages. Be patient and let us use the opportunities we
> Christoph> have instead of blocking the way for others.
> 
>         Sorry. Blurring our stance is starting us down a very slippery
>  slope.

the internal fighting is more likely to start us down that slope.

and now that it is 12:20 AM, I will get back to that darn speech I have
to give in speech class tomorrow.

btw, I am the fearful leader of the newly formed Stillwater Linux User
Group.  It is going very well (we had 20 people at our kickoff meeting
last nite).  Anyway, I wanted to comment that we will be having a Linux
InstallFest in about three weeks.  We will be installing Debian.  I am
oopen and welcome and comments, advise, etc anyone has...  thanks for
reading this far.

-----
Brought to you by the letters P and N and the number 16.

Paul J. Thompson <http://thomppj.student.okstate.edu/~thomppj/>
<thomppj@thomppj.student.okstate.edu>


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