09.18.07

Gemini version available ♊︎

Moonlight a Second-class Citizen in a WindowSilverLight Wide Web

Posted in Interoperability, Microsoft, Mono, Novell, Open XML at 5:38 pm by Dr. Roy Schestowitz

A new article from Microsoft’s own press ought to remind us why Moonlight was a bad idea, just like Novell’s attempted support for OOXML.

Rather than step up and produce a Linux version of Silverlight, Microsoft is taking a halfway step. It will provide technical guidance — and even support — to Miguel de Icaza and the rest of the Novell-hosted Mono team as they work to create Silverlight on Unix….

But as smart as the developers on the Mono team are, and they are very bright, it’s hard to see how Silverlight on Linux will avoid the fate of COM on Unix-lagging behind the Windows version.

Yet again, Novell is giving Microsoft the pleasure of saying that their technologies (e.g. Silverlight, OOXML) are widely supported (never mind the disturbing notion of “licensed”) and include Linux, but:

  1. The implementations are poor
  2. The implementations depends on a single company
  3. The implementations can be obtained from a single company (Novell)
  4. The rules can change at any time (for example, elements can be added with a Draconian licence bound to them)
  5. The implementations give developers false expectations about compatibility (e.g. Windows-only DRM)
  6. The implementations assist a hijack of de facto standards, which can and will be extended

There are more issues to think about, but the take-home message is that when a burglar approaches the window, you don’t invite the burglar to enter the house. You don’t offer the burglar some tea and cookies, either.

Share in other sites/networks: These icons link to social bookmarking sites where readers can share and discover new web pages.
  • Reddit
  • email

Decor ᶃ Gemini Space

Below is a Web proxy. We recommend getting a Gemini client/browser.

Black/white/grey bullet button This post is also available in Gemini over at this address (requires a Gemini client/browser to open).

Decor ✐ Cross-references

Black/white/grey bullet button Pages that cross-reference this one, if any exist, are listed below or will be listed below over time.

Decor ▢ Respond and Discuss

Black/white/grey bullet button If you liked this post, consider subscribing to the RSS feed or join us now at the IRC channels.

6 Comments

  1. Anon said,

    September 21, 2007 at 11:36 am

    Gravatar

    Wow… how about getting your facts straight next time you decide to write a post?

    1. Have you even looked at the code? How would you know?

    2. It is LGPL, you know…

    3. Well, they /are/ the ones writing it…

    4. IIRC, MS and Novell’s Mono team have a contract stating that MS will continue to provide test suites and technical guidance for Moonlight

    5. Windows-only DRM?Huh? Microsoft is providing not only the codecs but also the DRM to Moonlight for use on Linux.

    6. So? If you don’t let people/companies extend things, we’d still be living in caves, clubbing our dinner before lugging it back.

  2. Roy Schestowitz said,

    September 21, 2007 at 12:22 pm

    Gravatar

    > 1. Have you even looked at the code? How would you know?

    You can’t even look at all the code. Codecs are proprietary.

    > 2. It is LGPL, you know…

    For now. It can be later extended to contain other components under a different licence (or not contain them at all). Microsoft calls the shots.

    > 4. IIRC, MS and Novell’s Mono team have a contract
    > stating that MS will continue to provide test suites and
    > technical guidance for Moonlight

    Why doesn’t Microsoft simply support its own technology like it support Macs (partially, of course, because Mono is tied to some Windows services)?

    > 5. Windows-only DRM?Huh? Microsoft is providing not only the
    > codecs but also the DRM to Moonlight for use on Linux.

    Without delving into the moral issues of DRM, what happens when/if Novell is no longer there? There is no access to the source code.

    > 6. So? If you don’t let people/companies extend things, we’d
    > still be living in caves, clubbing our dinner before lugging it back.

    Things are to be developed in consortia and be made workable through standards and interfaces, not integration and binary ‘donations’. Some of Microsoft’s history on standards is very telling. Silverlight is no exception.

  3. Anon said,

    September 21, 2007 at 1:57 pm

    Gravatar

    >You can’t even look at all the code. Codecs are proprietary.

    That’s not Novell’s fault.

    > For now. It can be later extended to contain other components under a different
    > licence (or not contain them at all). Microsoft calls the shots.

    Microsoft will be releasing their Silverlight controls as open source so that Moonlight can use them as well. Seems to me that Microsoft is being quite charitable here.

    > Why doesn’t Microsoft simply support its own technology like it support Macs
    > (partially, of course, because Mono is tied to some Windows services)?

    Are you saying you’d be “happy as a pig in sh!t” if Microsoft had been the one to provide you with a proprietary Linux version of Silverlight? This would somehow be better than an open source Moonlight? How?

    IMHO, you are just fishing for reasons to complain.

    > Without delving into the moral issues of DRM, what happens when/if Novell is
    > no longer there? There is no access to the source code.

    No source code for what? Moonlight is open source… it’s all out there (except for the codecs/DRM, but you could just write a drop-in replacement). The codecs/DRM aren’t even the hardest parts of implementing Silverlight.

    > Things are to be developed in consortia and be made workable through
    > standards and interfaces, not integration and binary ‘donations’. Some of
    > Microsoft’s history on standards is very telling. Silverlight is no exception.

    Microsoft produced Silverlight because there was no consortium working on designing something that solved the needs. Who’s fault is that? Not Microsoft’s. Not Novell’s.

  4. Mukotar said,

    December 6, 2007 at 6:43 pm

    Gravatar

    This website is a joke! Haven’t seen so much paranoia and defiance to reason for a while.. I’m off for good.. after 10 minutes – I’ve had enough.. Have a nice time throwing your time down the drain chumps…
    In being so pro Open source you actually close linux to innovation and technologies.. Let the users choose what and how they want to use.. not the developers! .. In a way that’s what makes this site sound like another Microsoft of open source.. “We know what’s best for you”. No. You don’t. Every user knows for himself. I think Novell is wrong to a degree for coupling with MS, but they deliver much to open source!
    Look at many desktop improvements both for kde and gnome.. done by Novell developers..
    So.. what I want to say is .. this site makes me sick..
    Saying Novell sucks is easy.. matching their contribution to open source is hard.
    Have a nice day and hello from Croatia to all reasonable visitors!

  5. Russian Hacker said,

    September 20, 2008 at 1:37 pm

    Gravatar

    1) This site sucks more than anything.

    2) Its apparent that you’re running this site only for adsense clicks. Or to attract advertisers which you’ve failed to do.

    3) There are many other “better” niches that can earn you more advertising bucks.

    4) Visit http://en.opensuse.org/Novell_Supported_Projects

    5) Get a life.

  6. Roy Schestowitz said,

    September 20, 2008 at 2:01 pm

    Gravatar

    Earlier today I asked Shane about dropping the ads, which would mean we have to pay the hosting bills out of our own pockets, in addition to running this site for no profit or gain.

    Why the insults and lies, “Russian Hacker”?

DecorWhat Else is New


  1. António Campinos Promotes Software Patents Using Buzzwords and Sketchy Loopholes With Dubious Legal Basis

    ‘Monopoly Tony’ (António Campinos) is shamelessly manipulating EPO processes at both ends (sender and receiver) to facilitate the illegal granting of invalid European software patents; we’re meant to think this former EU official and imposter (banker) is some guru in the sciences because he reads a lousy speech crafted for him with lots of meaningless buzzwords peppered all over it (he’s not good at reading it, either)



  2. [Meme] Jorgotta Be Kidding Us, Campinos!

    Monopoly Tony (António Campinos) runs the EPO by attacking the very legal basis of the EPO’s existence



  3. Unified Patent Court (UPC) Relies Too Much on Lies and Mischief Without Any Basis in Law

    Today’s video runs through the typical (weekly) lies from Team UPC — lies that are very easy to debunk; Team UPC not only drafted the thing but also looks to profit from it while misleading politicians and bribing publishers to spread intentionally misleading statements (lies)



  4. IRC Proceedings: Sunday, May 22, 2022

    IRC logs for Sunday, May 22, 2022



  5. Links 23/05/2022: Fedora 36 Reviewed

    Links for the day



  6. [Meme] It's My Working Party... And I'll Cry If I Want to!

    EPO President António Campinos is still not being held accountable for his Code of Conduct violations



  7. Links 22/05/2022: The 5.18 Kernel is Out

    Links for the day



  8. Gemini is Bigger Than Most People Care to Realise

    Geminispace has gotten to the point where it's too computationally expensive (or outright pricey) to study, let alone keep abreast of, Gemini capsules or the domain space as a whole



  9. Links 22/05/2022: Rock64 and Peppermint OS Release

    Links for the day



  10. [Meme] UPC is Always Next Year (and Next Year It'll Surely be the Year After That)

    The UPC will come “next year”, just like every year (since almost a decade ago) just because the lunatic promises so and crushes the law, quite frankly as usual, cusioned and protected by the UPC lobby



  11. UPC: Turning Patent Lawyers Into Liars and the Media Into Their Money-Grabbing Megaphone (Platform for Fake News)

    The above 26 screenshots (with necessary annotation added) hopefully illuminate the degree of deceit, manipulation, bribery and distortion of public discourse (fake news and advocacy of patently unlawful activities)



  12. Number of Working/Online Gemini Capsules, Known to Totally Legit Gemini Search (TLGS) and to Lupa, Exceeds 2,500

    Assuming that Lupa reduced its crawling capacity (this graph seems to confirm this), we’ve decided to aggregate data from 3 sources and assess the size of Geminispace; Lupa says it can see 1,947 active capsules, but there are many more it has not kept track of



  13. [Meme] Monopoly Tony

    The gentlest, kindest president the EPO ever had



  14. It Took Campinos Three or More Years to Undo Illegal Battistelli Actions on Boards of Appeal and Strike Regulations (Only After Losing at ILO-AT!), But He Does Not Mention That

    Let’s all remember that as the EPO‘s so-called ‘President’ António Campinos (Monopoly Tony) vigorously defended completely unlawful actions of Benoît Battistelli until courts compelled him to stop doing that (Strike Regulations); notice how, in the video above — a portion of this full clip from several months ago — he did not bother mentioning that for 3.5 years that he had “led” the Office the Boards of Appeal were in exile, in direct violation of the EPC, yet nobody is being held accountable for it



  15. IRC Proceedings: Saturday, May 21, 2022

    IRC logs for Saturday, May 21, 2022



  16. Links 22/05/2022: Free Software Developments in Bratislava

    Links for the day



  17. Gemini is the Direction the Paginated Internet Should Have Taken (Not Bloated Web With JavaScript and DRM)

    An update on Gemini and why you might wish to explore it (if you aren't using it already)



  18. EPO.org Now Openly Brags About Making Illegal Patents a Welcomed Part of the Examination Guidelines

    The EPO persists in illegal, unlawful agenda; it's even finding the audacity to advertise this in the official Web site



  19. Links 21/05/2022: Security Blunders and Microsoft Posturing

    Links for the day



  20. Links 21/05/2022: GitLab at Fedora and Pipewire in Next Ubuntu

    Links for the day



  21. Links 21/05/2022: HP Teams up with System76

    Links for the day



  22. IRC Proceedings: Friday, May 20, 2022

    IRC logs for Friday, May 20, 2022



  23. Links 20/05/2022: Thunderbird Revenue Rising

    Links for the day



  24. Outsourcing Sites to Social Control Media is an Outdated Mindset in 2022

    Centralised or federated censorship/filtering platforms (also known as "social [control] media" [sic]) aren't the way forward; we're therefore a little surprised that Linux Weekly News (LWN) bothers with that languishing bandwagon all of a sudden



  25. Links 20/05/2022: Plasma's Latest Beta in Kubuntu 22.04, Kapow 1.6.0 Released

    Links for the day



  26. Turkey's Migration to Pardus Linux and LibreOffice Explained 2 Months Ago in LibrePlanet

    This talk by Hüseyin GÜÇ was uploaded under the title “Real world GNU/Linux story from Istanbul”



  27. In Turkey, Windows Market Share is Down to Almost Nothing, 'Linux' is About Two Thirds of the Connected Devices

    Watch this graph of Windows going down from around 99.5% to just 11.55% this month



  28. The Lies and Delusions of António Campinos

    Monopolies and American corporations (and their lawyers) are a priority for today's EPO, Europe's second-largest institution



  29. Links 20/05/2022: Fedora BIOS Boot SIG

    Links for the day



  30. Links 20/05/2022: Oracle Linux 8.6 and VMware Security Crisis

    Links for the day


RSS 64x64RSS Feed: subscribe to the RSS feed for regular updates

Home iconSite Wiki: You can improve this site by helping the extension of the site's content

Home iconSite Home: Background about the site and some key features in the front page

Chat iconIRC Channel: Come and chat with us in real time

Recent Posts