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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: July 23rd, 2008

Posted in IRC Logs at 5:24 am by Dr. Roy Schestowitz

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-dmwaters-{global notice} Hi all, We look to be having some routing problems. I’m looking into it now. Thank you for your patience, and thank you for using freenode! Jul 23 00:09
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schestowitz Here is another possible Microsoft crime (new one that confirms my suspicions): http://blogs.wsj.com/deals/2008/07/… Jul 23 05:19
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kentma schestowitz: what was it you had yesterday, Roy? Jul 23 10:23
schestowitz The editor of Linux Today chose to link to the site and one fast response was an attack on the editor with libellous accusations against me. It was the same libellous claims that are seen in COLA, so I suspect that the COLA trolls continue to try blacklisting the site. Jul 23 10:26
kentma Ahh, okay – do you have the URL still? Jul 23 10:26
schestowitz Yes, it’s http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_sto… . Read the other replies (Hit “Back to headline”) and see that it’s a misfit. The trolls tried all sorts of other things too. Gary Stewart (flatfish), for example, accused the site of being aTrojan amd Timmy called it SPAM over at Digg. Jul 23 10:28
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schestowitz You then find that the tactics are a case of poisoning, just as COLA gets littered with foul stuff. As for Groklaw, false accusations were made about it (DDOS attacks) to have it blacklisted and then came the “Groklaw is an IBM site” smears. Jul 23 10:29
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schestowitz Hey, br. Jul 23 10:38
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kentma You’ve really got the URL sifting and linking off to a fine art here, Roy.   I think that the couple of years of news article collection is really paying off well – it’s so much harder to hide now! Jul 23 10:39
kentma Btw, I’ve left a counter-remark on LT now. Jul 23 10:39
schestowitz Oh, thanks. I’ll watch. Jul 23 10:43
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schestowitz I’m about to post something about a Microsoft attack. Jul 23 11:00
schestowitz That company still operates like some mafia. Jul 23 11:00
blackrabbit hello schestowitz, how do you mean? Jul 23 11:01
schestowitz They attack bloggers. Jul 23 11:01
schestowitz Say something they dislike, be attacked. Jul 23 11:01
blackrabbit More people should make use of Tor over SSL for blogging Jul 23 11:01
schestowitz As GL put it the other day, “everyone resisting OOXML must be some extremist anti-Microsoft zealot” (not exact quote) Jul 23 11:02
schestowitz Assuming only that they need privacy. Jul 23 11:02
schestowitz Like freedom, privacy is a tradeoff working against convenience. If not done properly, it’s pointless cause you need to get exposed just once. Jul 23 11:03
blackrabbit schestowitz, this assumes people would place themselves in a position to be exposed Jul 23 11:03
blackrabbit everyone can, with the proper know how, blog anonymously Jul 23 11:03
schestowitz What if you own the domain? Jul 23 11:05
blackrabbit you shouldn’t Jul 23 11:05
blackrabbit unless you’re in a country where you may remain anonymous Jul 23 11:05
schestowitz And by the way, Google sold out its users to the police beofre. Jul 23 11:05
kentma My problem with that approach is that once you start hiding, then the risk of being “exposed” becomes significant. Jul 23 11:05
schestowitz Or you have spies coming to youir house to dig dirt. Jul 23 11:06
blackrabbit which is why there’s tor, ssl, ssh Jul 23 11:06
blackrabbit follow the guidelines to proper anonymous blogging Jul 23 11:07
blackrabbit you’re doing it wrong if you post your face and name to the blog Jul 23 11:07
blackrabbit “Look at me, I’m Joe! I want to be famous!” Jul 23 11:07
blackrabbit this is the wrong way to expose corruption Jul 23 11:07
schestowitz No. Jul 23 11:07
blackrabbit hidden services which tor offers is also valuable Jul 23 11:07
blackrabbit but less known Jul 23 11:07
blackrabbit .onion domains Jul 23 11:07
blackrabbit Wikileaks has mirrors there Jul 23 11:08
schestowitz For one thing, you can’t hide atfter your name is out. Jul 23 11:08
schestowitz I started this not anonymously because I helped people with Linux (technical stuff), not advocated it or studied Microsoft’s abuse. Jul 23 11:08
blackrabbit I’m not discussing your public presence Jul 23 11:09
blackrabbit it’s important for some to make themselves known Jul 23 11:09
kentma Wikileaks is intended for people stuck in corporations or governements who want a safe way of whistle-blowing.  This is not the same as blogging with an alternative persona. Jul 23 11:09
blackrabbit take Richard Stallman for example Jul 23 11:09
blackrabbit these are people, like you, who are visible and inspire others Jul 23 11:09
blackrabbit kentma, this assumes the individual would adopt an alternative persona rather than a blog without a persona assigned Jul 23 11:10
blackrabbit I never suggested using google for blogging anonymously Jul 23 11:10
schestowitz Anonymity is a dream. Jul 23 11:11
kentma blackrabbit: not really what I meant.  my feeling is that if you start blogging “anonymously”, then by definition, you’re exposing a facet of yourself which is otherwise hidden, hence it’s an alternative persona.  It’s not about the visible baggage, rather, about the viewpoints and personality which make up the person who is blogging. Jul 23 11:11
schestowitz Any page you visit is a footprint. Jul 23 11:11
blackrabbit considering the amount of data google collects, why would an anonymous blogger choose google? Jul 23 11:11
schestowitz RMS doesn’t even browse the Web now (he used wget on a server that mails him pages) Jul 23 11:12
schestowitz PJ won’t visit Sys-con. Instewad, people like me send her copies (by mail) of all the slime. There’s the issue of IP harvesting, which also affects GL readers. Jul 23 11:12
blackrabbit I was mentioning RMS as a visible figurehead and the importance of individuals, not his browsing habits Jul 23 11:12
schestowitz I flush BN.com logs every night. Jul 23 11:12
blackrabbit why retain them at all? Jul 23 11:13
schestowitz The host generates visual logs from them every night (no raw data, just graphs). Jul 23 11:13
schestowitz Then again, Google is there tracking (AdSense). It wasn’t my idea, but Shane put it there to pay the bills (since day 1). Jul 23 11:14
blackrabbit yes, any page you visit is a footprint, and for some, this footprint is in ram and the ip is an exit node or a tor client behind several dozen proxies Jul 23 11:15
schestowitz I think anonymity is an invitation for trouble. Jul 23 11:16
blackrabbit only to the uninitiated Jul 23 11:17
schestowitz It begs the question: why does the person hide in the first place? What are the professional affiliations? No restraints? Jul 23 11:17
kentma you need logs in order to do maintenance. Jul 23 11:17
schestowitz Security? Jul 23 11:17
schestowitz Either way, I’ve seen how people use logs to trap people. Jul 23 11:17
kentma blackrabbit: what will you do when you get found out?  do you have a plan? (assuming that you do blog anonymously, that is) Jul 23 11:18
schestowitz I can’t go into specifics here, but there was an attempt to expose Microsoft Munnchins some months ago, so people wanted me to use my logs (which I don’t have). Jul 23 11:18
schestowitz Microsoft is probably running some smear campaigns along with its partners, using anonymous blogs and nymshifters. Jul 23 11:19
blackrabbit kentma, I don’t participate in anonymous blogging, and were I to do so, I wouldn’t divulge sensitive exit strategies to a logged channel Jul 23 11:19
blackrabbit I’m merely exercising my fingers Jul 23 11:19
schestowitz blackrabbit: is your name Bruce Schneier? ;-) Jul 23 11:20
kentma blackrabbit: then how can you recommend it for others? (anonymous blogging, that is!)? Jul 23 11:20
blackrabbit I don’t have a name Jul 23 11:20
blackrabbit nor a face Jul 23 11:20
blackrabbit nor anything at all Jul 23 11:20
schestowitz I see… Jul 23 11:20
blackrabbit kentma, I can because done right, it works Jul 23 11:20
schestowitz Heard of Rich the Patent Troll Tracker? Jul 23 11:20
schestowitz Do you know how he got exposed and then sued along with Cisco? Jul 23 11:21
schestowitz *Rick Jul 23 11:21
blackrabbit Was this in a recent slashdot post? Jul 23 11:21
kentma blackrabbit: you only have to go wrong once, and it’s over – statistically, this is pretty much guaranteed to fail in the end. Jul 23 11:21
blackrabbit kentma, yes. failure is in the mind of the loser Jul 23 11:22
schestowitz Rick had a millionaire patent troll (earth-level scum) put a bounty on his head. Jul 23 11:22
kentma blackrabbit: failure in terms of anonymous blogging would be in the mind of everyone, and indeed, in the public eye, too. Jul 23 11:22
schestowitz Same with data leaks. One leak, one stolen USB key or whatever and *poof* all citizens in the UK are ‘naked’ Jul 23 11:23
blackrabbit this assumes one has a medium able to be stolen Jul 23 11:23
blackrabbit those who rely on electronic based security methods in sensitive areas always fail Jul 23 11:23
blackrabbit wireless is out and running cables is out, power can always be cut Jul 23 11:24
blackrabbit if they want information bad enough, they’ll read it off the reflection of your eye Jul 23 11:24
schestowitz Or engage in waterboarding, which Mr Bush now approves. Jul 23 11:24
kentma blackrabbit: the only way of remaining anonymous is to remain silent.  Anything else has a discernable risk of exposure – you can minimise it, but you can never remove it. Jul 23 11:24
blackrabbit crafty people depending on your area of expertise Jul 23 11:24
blackrabbit kentma, a silent blogger is not a blogger at all Jul 23 11:25
kentma blackrabbit: an anonymous blogger is only anonymous for so long. Jul 23 11:25
blackrabbit schestowitz, this assumes the blogger is within the US or is blogging about US interests Jul 23 11:25
schestowitz blackrabbit: what about back doors? Jul 23 11:25
schestowitz At PC level? Jul 23 11:25
blackrabbit hardware level of course Jul 23 11:26
blackrabbit and the wonderfully closed bios Jul 23 11:26
blackrabbit but we’re going deep into tin hattery here Jul 23 11:26
schestowitz That too. Also packet level (encryption has back doors sometimes). Jul 23 11:26
blackrabbit I do not anonymously blog, so the subject is of no further interest to me Jul 23 11:26
schestowitz All provable by the way (I could fetch my refs) Jul 23 11:26
blackrabbit your microsoft post you mentioned earlier, though, is schestowitz Jul 23 11:26
blackrabbit certainly Jul 23 11:27
kentma blackrabbit: then you have no real experience in this at all? Jul 23 11:27
blackrabbit believe what you wish Jul 23 11:27
schestowitz Apart from the text? Jul 23 11:27
kentma blackrabbit: pardon? Jul 23 11:27
schestowitz PCs and networks are engineered around control. Jul 23 11:27
blackrabbit kentma, you have your belief, I’m not here to sway it Jul 23 11:28
schestowitz SPAMMERS are sheltered only by layers of complexity and scale. Jul 23 11:28
kentma blackrabbit: err, no, it’s what you said… Jul 23 11:28
blackrabbit my interest here is in schestowitz’s website and discussion of it Jul 23 11:28
schestowitz If they use many bots and a chain of proxies they can still be found. But when 320000000 zombie PCs exist, where does one start? It can be done, either way. Jul 23 11:28
blackrabbit anything is possible Jul 23 11:29
kentma blackrabbit: you said that you do not blog anonymously, but you also were adamant that it could be done.  Ergo, you have no experience of it, and are merely speculating.  This is what you said, not my belief of anything. Jul 23 11:29
blackrabbit kentma, believe what you wish Jul 23 11:29
kentma blackrabbit: you said that you do not blog anonymously, but you also were adamant that it could be done.  Ergo, you have no experience of it, and are merely speculating.  This is what you said, not my belief of anything. Jul 23 11:29
blackrabbit schestowitz, why would you say Schneier? Jul 23 11:29
blackrabbit kentma, it can be done, yes, I am not on here to prove anything Jul 23 11:30
schestowitz About you? Just a joke. I think he’s overrated but I like his writings. Jul 23 11:30
kentma blackrabbit: But as you’ve never done it, you don’t actually have any experience, so you’re guessing. Jul 23 11:30
blackrabbit kentma, for the last time, believe as you wish Jul 23 11:30
schestowitz Anonymous blogging is as possible as your host/admin/cops/govt want it to be. Jul 23 11:30
kentma blackrabbit: this is not about my beliefs, sorry – this is about your claims. Jul 23 11:30
kentma blackrabbit: you claim to be sure about being able to blog anonymously, and yet you say you’ve never done it.  The only possible conclusion, assuming you’re not being dishonest, is that you’re guessing. Jul 23 11:31
blackrabbit this assumes the local interests are interested enough in said blogging Jul 23 11:31
blackrabbit let’s say I wanted to anonymously blog about rabbits Jul 23 11:32
blackrabbit what then? Jul 23 11:32
kentma blackrabbit: no, exposure can readily be by accident.  It’s about probabilities, that’s all. Jul 23 11:32
blackrabbit who would care enough to find the blogger who loves rabbits? Jul 23 11:32
schestowitz There’s always some McCreevy type to serve interest like a satellite, inter-continental even. Jul 23 11:32
blackrabbit and why would they care? Jul 23 11:32
blackrabbit indeed Jul 23 11:33
schestowitz Rabbits? Jul 23 11:33
blackrabbit satellites are fun Jul 23 11:33
blackrabbit yes, rabbits Jul 23 11:33
schestowitz Who would complain? Rabbits that you slander? Jul 23 11:33
blackrabbit an overly mundane example Jul 23 11:33
blackrabbit heh Jul 23 11:33
schestowitz It has to have monetary or personal incentive. Jul 23 11:33
blackrabbit kentma, sure, I’m guessing, will this end the discussion? Jul 23 11:33
kentma blackrabbit: you still miss the point about probabilities – monetary advantage doesn’t need to come into it at all. Jul 23 11:33
schestowitz Seen what they did to PJ.. or to Geer…? Jul 23 11:34
blackrabbit kentma, it’s not my final word on it, but anything to end the spotlight of accusation Jul 23 11:34
kentma blackrabbit: thankyou – I presume it’s safe to ignore the rest of it, then. Jul 23 11:34
schestowitz Just give me 5 minutes and I’ll blog about it. Jul 23 11:34
kentma schestowitz: anonymously or openly :-) Jul 23 11:34
blackrabbit lol Jul 23 11:35
blackrabbit it would be amusing if the name and photo of schestowitz was fake Jul 23 11:35
schestowitz I thought about it before. Jul 23 11:35
kentma ah, but I happen to know that they’re not – I’ve met Roy. Jul 23 11:35
schestowitz I was accused some times of not existing. Jul 23 11:35
schestowitz kentma: yesterday the trolls accused me of being [H]omer Jul 23 11:36
blackrabbit you get trolls in here? Jul 23 11:36
schestowitz Not here, but in the advocacy newsgroup. Jul 23 11:36
kentma schestowitz: anything to upset, I think.  Most of their approach seems to be to draw out some kind of angry response in order to be able to hold it against people. Jul 23 11:36
kentma any pretence of debating facts was abandoned long long ago in cola. Jul 23 11:37
schestowitz Some are former Microsoft employees. They invade Linux fora. Jul 23 11:37
kentma blackrabbit: take a look in cola, but keep your tin hat on – it’s dreadful. Jul 23 11:37
blackrabbit I may take a peek Jul 23 11:37
schestowitz kentma: that;s why I don’t reply, no matter the insult or libel. Jul 23 11:37
schestowitz http://groups.google.com/group/com… Jul 23 11:38
kentma schestowitz: I do try to ignore whereever possible. Jul 23 11:38
blackrabbit is there any documented reference to anyone working for Microsoft who has leaked information, gaining employment in order to leak? Jul 23 11:38
kentma blackrabbit: the hallowe’en documents were clearly leaked, although I don’t know why. Jul 23 11:38
blackrabbit corporations plant people at rivals all of the time Jul 23 11:38
blackrabbit but I’m curious if there’s ever been any leakers with the intent to leak Jul 23 11:39
kentma blackrabbit: interesting remark – something myself and colleagues have speculated on for a long time – do you have any actual proof of this which can be exposed? Jul 23 11:39
blackrabbit proof of which Jul 23 11:39
blackrabbit corporate plants? Jul 23 11:39
kentma yes Jul 23 11:39
blackrabbit isn’t this covered in any real business course? Jul 23 11:40
blackrabbit that sort of thing happens all of the time Jul 23 11:40
blackrabbit it’s dramatized in hollywood but it is part of the workings of big business Jul 23 11:40
kentma I know the theory, but I mean actual proof…  documents, payment proof, contracts, even emails, anything at all? Jul 23 11:41
blackrabbit one could google I suppose Jul 23 11:41
schestowitz blackrabbit: if you need documents, just ask. Jul 23 11:41
schestowitz We have a gold mine. Jul 23 11:41
kentma schestowitz: of planted workers? Jul 23 11:41
schestowitz blackrabbit: Sen and VMWare are ruined by plants. Jul 23 11:42
schestowitz Ron Hovsepian too might be an example. Jul 23 11:42
schestowitz BN.com covered this before. Jul 23 11:42
blackrabbit schestowitz, may I suggest a brief article with some links regarding this topic? Jul 23 11:42
blackrabbit schestowitz, a side article perhaps Jul 23 11:42
schestowitz According to one professor whom I correspond with, Microsoft is doing the same thing to Google at the moment. Jul 23 11:42
blackrabbit schestowitz, to stroke the imagination of where this could occur today Jul 23 11:42
blackrabbit schestowitz, was this also done to Novell? Jul 23 11:43
blackrabbit to Linspire? Jul 23 11:43
blackrabbit better still, to Xandros? Jul 23 11:43
schestowitz blackrabbit: it would have to be a set of links. Jul 23 11:43
schestowitz Like the Microsoft finance post, which received _a lot_ of unexpected attention (I only did it because a reader asked), it’s a rerun of old info. Jul 23 11:44
schestowitz I don’t know about Linspire. Jul 23 11:44
kentma ahh, lots of smoke, but yet no fire. Jul 23 11:44
schestowitz In FOSS: also be careful of OpenLogic (Microsoft roots in the CEO), Black Duck (CEO from Microsoft), and a variety of other projects. Jul 23 11:45
schestowitz SourceForce along with NewsForge seems to be going through a similar transition at the moment. Jul 23 11:45
schestowitz Do we need fire? Let me think.. Jul 23 11:45
blackrabbit yes Jul 23 11:46
schestowitz I guess the only gun you can pull is one where a Microsoft staffer expresses intent to poison a rival using workforce. Jul 23 11:46
schestowitz I don’t know of an Iowa exhibit of this nature and, either way, it would be out of date (rivals that Microsoft had put in the grave already) Jul 23 11:47
schestowitz take VMWare for example. Jul 23 11:47
schestowitz All we have is strong circumstational evidence. Jul 23 11:47
kentma Oh, I’m quite sure that this is going on, don’t misunderstand me, but I’d *love* to get my hands on some proof. Jul 23 11:47
schestowitz I use it only as an example that’s most recent.. They sacked Diane shortly after EMC had become Microsoft’s Partner of the Year. Jul 23 11:48
blackrabbit sure, a brief posting of links would suffice Jul 23 11:48
blackrabbit I’m wondering how long Ubuntu and Red Hat will hold out Jul 23 11:48
schestowitz Months beforehand I was stunned to find Maritz sneaking into EMC (WTF????). It’s almost like they had it all planned and did it in stages. Jul 23 11:49
schestowitz Ubuntu’s problem is different. Jul 23 11:49
blackrabbit heh Jul 23 11:49
schestowitz They don’t employ the de Icaza’s (though they used to have Jeff Waugh) but them and RHAT/Fedora get Miguels’s junk code (Mono), which is poison. Jul 23 11:49
kentma Ubuntu and Red Hat will remain staunchly independent of MS, I’m 100% sure. Jul 23 11:50
schestowitz I’m going to post about Debian later. They push away Mono. Finally. Jul 23 11:50
blackrabbit yes, there have been many calls by users to dump mono in Ubuntu Jul 23 11:50
schestowitz Partly thanks to our efforts in BN.com. Jul 23 11:50
blackrabbit I forgot to mention Debian Jul 23 11:50
blackrabbit kentma, minus the codecs/dell issue Jul 23 11:50
schestowitz I didn’t buy my PC from Dell. I only checked. Jul 23 11:51
kentma even Debian have installers for such things, though. Jul 23 11:51
blackrabbit I’m surprised the MS gorilla hasn’t thrown a banana at the Wine project Jul 23 11:51
kentma similarly, such as maemo have kernel drivers which are proprietary. Jul 23 11:51
blackrabbit and I don’t mean by way of support Jul 23 11:51
schestowitz They STILL offer just F*** Intel.. and guess that?? They were caught last year doing a bribery thing with Intel. No probe, nio imprisonment, no compensation of angry investors. Jul 23 11:51
kentma blackrabbit: I think they’re happy for it to exist – it proves that there is competition in the market… Jul 23 11:52
blackrabbit true Jul 23 11:52
blackrabbit What has Microsoft offered to Linux, in interoperability, other than words and a forum? Jul 23 11:52
blackrabbit Where is directx for linux? Jul 23 11:52
blackrabbit Where is IE for linux? Jul 23 11:52
blackrabbit Where is Office for Linux? Jul 23 11:52
schestowitz Nokia is out there in OSCON I think… trying to steal developers for Symbian (Open EclipsourceBS) Jul 23 11:52
schestowitz Speaking of which, Maemo will have an event in Berlin soon. Jul 23 11:52
blackrabbit Yes, I was amused by the Nokia/Symbian open sourcing announcement Jul 23 11:53
kentma I know – I got the invite a few days ago… Jul 23 11:53
schestowitz blackrabbit: Apple could ask the same question. Jul 23 11:53
blackrabbit Indeed Jul 23 11:53
blackrabbit I refuse to buy anything from Apple Jul 23 11:53
blackrabbit or use anything from Apple Jul 23 11:53
schestowitz Seen their deal? I have the video. They /USED/ Apple to make monopolyware have 100% market share… Office, IE… Jul 23 11:53
schestowitz Apple is sadly enough glorified in the press. Jul 23 11:54
kentma I’m not a huge apple fan, although they do make good quality hardware.  My no1 son is a major apple fan, though, has a powerpcg2 and a mini. Jul 23 11:54
schestowitz It’s portrayed as the saver from monopoly, but the issue of iTunes/iPod monopoly is ignored, not to mention DRM. Jul 23 11:54
schestowitz Google too is a proprietary software monopoly. Jul 23 11:54
schestowitz IBM is in-between and Sun is getting quite good actually. Jul 23 11:55
kentma google stand to lose from the agpl, if it ever gets traction. Jul 23 11:55
schestowitz It already does. Jul 23 11:55
schestowitz Adoption was expected to be minuscule, but it’s now eating GPLv3′s lunch. Jul 23 11:55
blackrabbit Apple has the money Jul 23 11:56
blackrabbit if you have the money you have money to market a clean and nice figure Jul 23 11:56
kentma apple’s margins are huge. Jul 23 11:56
schestowitz Apple too is a big advertisers, but the people who are fans drive adoption and publicity. Jul 23 11:56
kentma apple are like B&O. Jul 23 11:56
schestowitz On the bright side, Apple just ignores Linux; it doesn’t attack it, yet. Jul 23 11:56
blackrabbit what repulsed me was the mac vs. pc ads Jul 23 11:56
blackrabbit as if there was only a gates presence on the pc Jul 23 11:56
schestowitz Yes. Jul 23 11:57
blackrabbit I’m curious why Apple hasn’t adopted Linux Jul 23 11:57
schestowitz Well, Microsoft butters both sides of the toast. Microsoft likes Apple for the effect on FOSS. Jul 23 11:57
blackrabbit If they were really in competition with MS and not a partner Jul 23 11:57
schestowitz Microsoft can use Apple to promote IPR. Jul 23 11:57
schestowitz It’s an investor, too. Jul 23 11:57
schestowitz blackrabbit: the engineers at Apple wanted Linux. Jul 23 11:57
schestowitz With iPhone coming, it’s clear why Job rejected Linux… GPL! Jul 23 11:58
kentma blackrabbit: they’re a proprietary company with huge margins – linux is about selling services not software – if they can keep their margins whilst adopting BSD code, from a business perspective, then it makes sense to milk it whilst they can. Jul 23 11:58
schestowitz The iPhone is a Tivo machine in your pocket. Jul 23 11:58
blackrabbit kentma, wouldn’t it make sense to deliver specialized hardware directly developed for Linux? Jul 23 11:58
kentma The iPhone has an amazing model – Apple make money out every call you make or message you send. Jul 23 11:58
schestowitz Apple goes for upper crust though. Jul 23 11:59
schestowitz They know they can’t beat Linux. Jul 23 11:59
kentma blackrabbit: it might well do, but for Apple, they’re used to controlling from the top to the bottom, so going in half-way up is just not what they would do.  Their customers seem to expect them to do this, too. Jul 23 11:59
schestowitz It’s a niche market assuming that now everyone buys a new PC and gadgets. Microsoft addresses this ‘issue’ by doing bogus ‘charity’. Have our binary… send ous data… be addicted. Jul 23 11:59
kentma what’s amazing about apple for me is how people will pay so much money for something where there are clearly much less expensive alternatives which are just as capable. Jul 23 12:00
kentma I think when people buy apple, like B&O or Rolls Royce or Cartier or Yves Saint Laurent or Gucci, they’re buying a lifestyle, rather than a machine. Jul 23 12:01
blackrabbit schestowitz, what was this post you were mentioning earlier about? Jul 23 12:01
blackrabbit correct Jul 23 12:02
blackrabbit it’s the perception Jul 23 12:02
schestowitz kentma: they buy a dream, not a lifestyle. Jul 23 12:02
blackrabbit they say ooooo it’s unix Jul 23 12:02
blackrabbit but it’s unix with proprietary mixed Jul 23 12:03
schestowitz Why else would people pay for champagne 10 times what they pay for regular wine? Jul 23 12:03
kentma schestowitz: people seem willing to pay a lot more for a dream than they do for a reality.  Maybe this is why engineers and scientists are so poor at marketing generally. Jul 23 12:03
schestowitz You are not allowed to display Mac products in certain ways. The perception must be controlled. Microsoft tried similar stuff with Vista. Jul 23 12:03
schestowitz kentma: limousine fantasies and prom nights are good examples of this. Jul 23 12:04
blackrabbit kentma, returning briefly to what we were discussing earlier, have you read the paper on peculiar means to garnish information from the screen of a computer? Jul 23 12:05
schestowitz “Be a Prince… for a few hours… having worked for weeks or months.” But anyway, that’s nor the point. It’s the same everywhere in society. it’s a social thing — government-imposed control of minds. Jul 23 12:05
kentma blackrabbit: I recall the project to monitor television scan information remotely, and visually reproduce it – is that the one you mean? Jul 23 12:05
blackrabbit the use of telescopes and gleaning of information from reflective surfaces in the user’s environment, teapots and even the human eye Jul 23 12:05
blackrabbit it’s a fascinating article Jul 23 12:05
schestowitz Just watch the portrayals of war films and use of viole nt games to spur recruitment of soldiers. Jul 23 12:05
blackrabbit that is TEMPEST, different Jul 23 12:06
kentma blackrabbit: ahh, no, I’ve not seen that one – if you have a ref, I’d be interested. Jul 23 12:06
kentma blackrabbit: did you see the project to remotely monitor television pictures at all? Jul 23 12:06
blackrabbit allow me to check my links, if I don’t have it on hand I may be able to reproduce it later for you Jul 23 12:06
kentma I would appreciate that, thankyou. Jul 23 12:06
blackrabbit this is TEMPEST you’re referring to Jul 23 12:06
blackrabbit google eckbox Jul 23 12:06
blackrabbit there were similar projects but they were… silenced or abandoned Jul 23 12:07
blackrabbit there’s also tempest for eliza program which crudely demonstrates the possibility of this Jul 23 12:07
blackrabbit welcome Jul 23 12:07
blackrabbit I’m not sure, having never acquired the hardware nor would I, that eckbox works Jul 23 12:07
blackrabbit were I employed legally to perform the work, it would be interesting Jul 23 12:07
blackrabbit but Jul 23 12:07
blackrabbit in using reflections in the user’s environment it’s easier Jul 23 12:08
blackrabbit in nearby objects and the user’s eye Jul 23 12:08
blackrabbit you can gain information from the user’s screen Jul 23 12:08
blackrabbit it’s interesting stuff Jul 23 12:08
blackrabbit the paper was short, but detailed enough for a glimpse Jul 23 12:08
kentma I suppose that as the eye is somewhat reflective, given the right optics, it ought to be possible to resolve information from that. Jul 23 12:09
blackrabbit this might be it Jul 23 12:09
blackrabbit please look and tell me if it shows a photo of reflections on household items of the computer screen and the user’s eye: Jul 23 12:09
blackrabbit http://www.infsec.cs.uni-sb.de/~un… Jul 23 12:09
kentma I would’ve thought that the difficulty would be tracking the eye & head movements. Jul 23 12:10
kentma yes, you’re right – it’s about using refflections to find out what was on a display. Jul 23 12:11
blackrabbit superb, I’m happy to have found it again Jul 23 12:11
kentma It does say that readability is limited by camera resolution for eye-shot images, but presumably that will also depend on being quite still as the image is captured. Jul 23 12:11
blackrabbit I know I have it on backups but forgot the location Jul 23 12:11
kentma hehe Jul 23 12:11
blackrabbit correct, but high powered telescopes are able to catch a lot of info Jul 23 12:12
blackrabbit coupled with a digital camera integrated into such device Jul 23 12:12
blackrabbit to me it’s a fascinating area of research Jul 23 12:12
blackrabbit LCD monitors are in no way exempt from tempest btw Jul 23 12:12
blackrabbit these tricks are more decloaking methods used to unveil anonymous bloggers or people of interest Jul 23 12:13
blackrabbit but social engineering is usually enough Jul 23 12:13
kentma ah, it also goes on to say that as the eye moves rapidly, the images get blurred… ;-) Jul 23 12:13
schestowitz blackrabbit: just posted that thing I told you I would: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/… Jul 23 12:13
blackrabbit just insert an attractive female into the person’s life, interested in their computer expertise Jul 23 12:13
blackrabbit thank you schestowitz how kind of you Jul 23 12:14
blackrabbit “My, you’re sure handy with that computer! Teach me how to blog anonymously!” wink wink Jul 23 12:14
blackrabbit or one afternoon chatting over the computer in question Jul 23 12:14
blackrabbit hello backdoor! Jul 23 12:14
schestowitz I’m going to write about Debian and Mono now. Long piece. Jul 23 12:14
blackrabbit or disk image Jul 23 12:14
blackrabbit schestowitz, excellent, how about a brief article about company plants? Jul 23 12:15
blackrabbit or links? Jul 23 12:15
schestowitz Hmmm… Jul 23 12:15
blackrabbit kentma, how many comatose web surfers do you know whose eyes blink often or move rapidly? Jul 23 12:15
schestowitz Let’s make a list: Xen (I have some refs about Redmond the Microsoft GM plant)… VMWare…. Novell (Miguel and Nat… I used to suspect Steinman too because of Groklaw… but then Hovsepian came out through a leak from a source I cannot name)… Jul 23 12:16
kentma eye movement isn’t directly controlled, though – it’s dominated by hard-wired brain reactions.  It’s virtually impossible to ignore movement. Jul 23 12:16
blackrabbit a dozen hours of video data should trim off the fat of those brief periods of rapid movement Jul 23 12:16
schestowitz About Debian, I think I’ll close comments, or else the Mono fans will start flaming. Jul 23 12:16
kentma blackrabbit: also, as we’re not insects, we have to turn our heads to locate sound-sources (we only detect pressure, not direction), so the head moves quite a lot naturally, too. Jul 23 12:17
blackrabbit schestowitz, good idea Jul 23 12:19
kentma It’s a good paper.  It also serves to reinforce my view that if you want to keep something secret, then don’t document it in any way, and never telll anyone. Jul 23 12:21
kentma The “tempest” stuff has been in use in MI5 since the late 1940s/early 1950s.  Basic eavesdropping was commonplace in the 1940s, Bletchley Park being the centre of the UK’s activities. Jul 23 12:23
blackrabbit that defeats the purpose of informing people though Jul 23 12:23
kentma indeed – my point being that informing people openly is much safer, is you can’t be “outed”. Jul 23 12:24
blackrabbit the tempest stuff doesn’t interest me as much as other means of physical monitoring and social engineering Jul 23 12:24
blackrabbit http://www.williamson-labs.com/l… Jul 23 12:25
blackrabbit I disagree Jul 23 12:25
kentma The russians had a really brilliant passive microphone, which when illuminated with suitable microwave radation, would modulate the beam with audio from the room it was in and re-radiate it for remote pick-up.  The other interesting audio one is shining a laser on a window and decoding modulation from the reflected beam. Jul 23 12:25
kentma disagree with what? Jul 23 12:25
blackrabbit with a thread I don’t wish to continue Jul 23 12:27
blackrabbit I simply disagree with a public presence vs. a pseudo-anonymous presence in delivering information Jul 23 12:28
blackrabbit I don’t wish to argue it Jul 23 12:28
blackrabbit MLK wasn’t anonymous either Jul 23 12:28
blackrabbit sure, he could’ve been outed Jul 23 12:28
schestowitz Information without a face has its credibility powered. Jul 23 12:28
schestowitz Safety and credibility are a case of antagonism. Jul 23 12:29
blackrabbit instead, by being public, they tried to drive him to suicide Jul 23 12:29
schestowitz Just watch how Wikileaks is challenged. Jul 23 12:29
schestowitz Oops. /s/powered/lowered/ Jul 23 12:29
kentma The abuse of legal power to stop whilst-blowing needs to be challenged.  Going anonymous merely serves to accept the status-quo, to my mind. Jul 23 12:30
kentma *whistle Jul 23 12:30
schestowitz Yes, but go ahead and try to change the system. Jul 23 12:31
schestowitz It’s easier to provide samples of information for tose with the power to change it. Jul 23 12:32
schestowitz For example, ushering a lawsuit against BSI by showing how it got f*ed by Microsoft and its partners in the UK. Jul 23 12:32
kentma schestowitz: I agree  with you, of course.  What I do not really agree with is that remaining anonymous is likely to help, since it undermines the information signficantly, as well as leaving the informant at risk of being exposed anyway. Jul 23 12:35
schestowitz Yes. Jul 23 12:36
kentma I can see that, in some geographies, anonymity might be the only way, but even that is going to be extremely difficult to achieve, since governments can pretty much do what they want in the name of “security”. Jul 23 12:36
kentma The worst thing is that the more the need to be anonymous is important, so the greater the need for exposure – the name for this is dissidence, btw. Jul 23 12:37
schestowitz Well, passing of liability by referencing everything is easy (I hate ‘articles’ because by their nature, just like newspapers, they omit bibliography).. Jul 23 12:37
schestowitz RSS feeds are a wonderful thing for accumulation of pertinent facts and quotes…. from people’s own mouths. Jul 23 12:38
kentma Incidentally, the shift in USPTO patent position is massive…  has anyone realised just how big this is? Jul 23 12:39
schestowitz Glyn did Jul 23 12:39
schestowitz I trust him on that one. Jul 23 12:39
schestowitz Groklaw put it in Picks, but hasn’t blogged it (yet?) Jul 23 12:40
kentma I’ve just banged this over to our legal folk for their consideration, too. Jul 23 12:40
schestowitz I wrote about it a few hours ago: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/07/23/n… Jul 23 12:40
schestowitz I thought about domino effect… as in… Australia, Japan… Jul 23 12:41
schestowitz Glyn says he’s not yet ready to pop the champagne. That’s his expression of cautious optimism anyway. Jul 23 12:42
schestowitz Almost there with Debian now. I’ll close comments. Jul 23 12:49
schestowitz Done. http://boycottnovell.com/2008/0… Jul 23 12:56
blackrabbit this is also of interest, kentma Jul 23 12:58
blackrabbit http://www.telegraph.co.uk/digitallife/ma… Jul 23 12:58
blackrabbit Stasi used radioactive spray to track dissidents – Telegraph Jul 23 12:58
blackrabbit http://technology.newscientis… Jul 23 12:59
blackrabbit but first and foremost, the mind is targeted, to drive you insane or think you’re going insane Jul 23 13:03
schestowitz Slipping of pills into people’s drinks, eh? I think the US government tried to quiet down war protesters that way. Jul 23 13:04
blackrabbit war protesters are useless Jul 23 13:05
blackrabbit even the high profile woman gave it up Jul 23 13:05
blackrabbit it’s futile Jul 23 13:05
schestowitz Well, the claims say that you just need to have an embarrassing display (cue Ballmer’s monkey dance) to destory one’s credibility. Jul 23 13:05
blackrabbit well demonstrated: Jul 23 13:05
blackrabbit http://www.commondreams.org/arch… Jul 23 13:05
schestowitz brb Jul 23 13:06
blackrabbit eccentricity is a common way of slight of hand Jul 23 13:07
blackrabbit acting stupid or strange Jul 23 13:07
blackrabbit and so people overlook the real agenda Jul 23 13:07
schestowitz RMS is smeared in this waty too. Jul 23 13:16
blackrabbit does RMS have a cell phone? Jul 23 13:16
schestowitz No. never. Jul 23 13:17
schestowitz Anyway, they try to draw attention to his appearance to retract the message he bears. Jul 23 13:17
blackrabbit indeed Jul 23 13:18
schestowitz But that’s another subject. It remains to be seen how much prodding is involved in eroding his image. Jul 23 13:19
blackrabbit his message remains Jul 23 13:30
schestowitz Where? He was lucky to get a BBC article (probably watered down) Jul 23 13:32
blackrabbit yes I seem to recall one article Jul 23 13:35
blackrabbit it contained two photos, if I recall Jul 23 13:35
blackrabbit one of him in a not so presentable pose Jul 23 13:35
blackrabbit and a short haired, clean cut opposer Jul 23 13:35
blackrabbit if I’m correct Jul 23 13:35
blackrabbit the text about him wasn’t too flattering, either Jul 23 13:35
blackrabbit one could investigate who the article writer was and his background Jul 23 13:35
schestowitz The media makes idols out of athletes and rich people, so people accused him of attacking a ‘charity’. They were surely brainwashed by the BillyPress. Jul 23 13:37
blackrabbit of course, the intellect is trashed Jul 23 13:37
blackrabbit praise the low browed ball player! Jul 23 13:37
schestowitz The BBC has just appointed a Microsoft executive for the technology side of media delivery. What’s hard for people to get their heads around is the notion of media mind shaping Jul 23 13:37
schestowitz Perfect political nirvana: people are preoccupied with sports and celebrities while robber barons are glorified. Well,  there’s no escape. Jul 23 13:39
blackrabbit lol Jul 23 13:40
blackrabbit that’s pathetic Jul 23 13:41
schestowitz Just posted the links for the morning. Some people read the site only for the links. See the last one about breaking the law. Rhetorical Q: does Obama have the power to put these thugs in prison? http://boycottnovell.com/2008/0… Jul 23 13:48
schestowitz Oh, just got this E-mail: “I have what I believe is good question relevant to the expiration of the mp3 patents under the “Mono Is Too Controversial for Debian” article, but that article is currently closed for comments.  Would it be possible to open it for my question?” Jul 23 13:54
schestowitz Just spotted: Snooping requests go through the roof ( http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/in… ) Jul 23 13:59
kentma on your political nirvana thing, it really has ever been thus.  We’ve had religion, then drugs of various kinds, the occasional war, more drugs of various kinds, and now we have the “media” who purvey a stream of soft & hard porn and mindless drivel about “celebrities”.   Oh yeah, and interestingly, there’s not all that much drive to stamp out the drugs trade, either… Jul 23 14:10
schestowitz Or the wars. :-) Jul 23 14:11
kentma indeed! Jul 23 14:11
kentma hehe Jul 23 14:11
schestowitz The TV still glorifies gun culture. Jul 23 14:11
schestowitz You see 4 year olds running around with plastic pistols. it’s fashionable. Jul 23 14:11
blackrabbit http://www.jsonline.com/… Jul 23 14:27
blackrabbit http://www.thesmokinggun.com/a… Jul 23 14:27
blackrabbit glorification of violence in general Jul 23 14:27
blackrabbit keeps the populace in check, citizen against citizen Jul 23 14:27
blackrabbit it breeds nut cases Jul 23 14:27
schestowitz blackrabbit: I lost patience with this, but esp. for you: http://boycottnovell.com/20… Jul 23 14:33
blackrabbit heh, thanks I’ll check it today! Jul 23 14:34
blackrabbit is it about the previous conversation regarding the corporate planting schema? Jul 23 14:35
schestowitz Yes, but where it’s not substantiated it says so. Jul 23 14:35
schestowitz I don’t believe in planting per se (not most of the time). People find news jobs but Microsoft can bother to influence them… use them as pawns. Jul 23 14:37
schestowitz Weird E-mail I just got a moment ago: “Hey there! Alex Brown is your latest fan. He became your fan because he likes what you are up to on Digg and wants to see what you think is interesting. You can either leave him as a fan or add him to your own list of friends. Check out his profile here: http://digg.com/users/alexgreenb?OTC-em-fn1 “. I suppose you know another “Alex Brown” and it’s no friend. Jul 23 14:39
blackrabbit then there’s this: Jul 23 14:39
blackrabbit http://origin.denverpost.com/tec… Jul 23 14:39
blackrabbit The body of Thomas, who family members said began recently suffering from bipolar disorder and delusions that he was being tracked by aliens and the government, was discovered near the base of a 985-foot Oahu cliff, according to newspaper reports. Jul 23 14:39
blackrabbit Steven Thomas, considered a security visionary for founding anti-spyware company Webroot, was discovered dead Sunday in Hawaii, some two weeks after he was reported missing. Jul 23 14:39
schestowitz Some might pretend to be nuts for mitigation of punishment. Jul 23 14:39
blackrabbit voice to skull technology is interesting Jul 23 14:39
schestowitz Oh THAT! Jul 23 14:40
blackrabbit I believe what Linus said recently about Digg users was spot on Jul 23 14:40
schestowitz I heard about it. I think it was a physical/mental illness though. Jul 23 14:40
blackrabbit schestowitz, perhaps Jul 23 14:40
blackrabbit schestowitz, or perhaps not Jul 23 14:40
schestowitz well, Linus took the piss. Jul 23 14:40
schestowitz Being the most prolific comment in that site (I think), I would take that as an insult. Jul 23 14:40
blackrabbit In April, just prior to the diagnosis, Thomas alarmed family members when he ran naked into a walk/run event near his home and then hugged a police officer. Jul 23 14:44
schestowitz Yes, I read that before. Jul 23 14:45
blackrabbit interesting: Jul 23 14:45
blackrabbit Steven Thomas, considered a security visionary for founding anti-spyware company Webroot, was discovered dead Sunday in Hawaii, some two weeks after he was reported missing. Jul 23 14:45
schestowitz Any other bizarre sighting? Maybe he was drunk or stones or something. Maybe that’s related to depression? Jul 23 14:45
blackrabbit oops Jul 23 14:45
blackrabbit good paste: Jul 23 14:45
blackrabbit Thomas won a statewide chess tournament at 10 and toyed with computers before most people owned one. When he was 14, the FBI paid a visit to his Boulder home after he hacked into a supercomputer at the National Center for Atmospheric Research in Boulder, Moll said. Jul 23 14:45
schestowitz Classic. He’s not alone. Jul 23 14:46
blackrabbit I wonder if he refused to whitelist certain “spyware” Jul 23 14:47
schestowitz Heh. Well, I didn’t learn much about him. Just read the gist about the death. Jul 23 14:47
schestowitz Spotted just now: http://feeds.pcworld.com/~r/pcwo… ( With DNS Flaw Now Public, Attack Code Imminent ) Jul 23 14:48
schestowitz Some sites were down due to DNS issue. I’m on the safe side myself. Jul 23 14:48
blackrabbit Heh Jul 23 14:49
blackrabbit Wasn’t this patched recently ? Jul 23 14:49
schestowitz Novell too has some patches to issue. Jul 23 14:49
blackrabbit I read some brief article about some stifling of a dns issue on slashdot Jul 23 14:49
schestowitz Yes, it leaked. Jul 23 14:49
blackrabbit don’t know if this is related Jul 23 14:49
schestowitz They knew about it years ago, but done nothing. Jul 23 14:49
schestowitz So next time they mock Debian, show ‘em this. Jul 23 14:49
blackrabbit was/ Jul 23 14:50
blackrabbit thanks I’ll check my feeds Jul 23 14:50
schestowitz Rabbits read feeds? Jul 23 14:50
blackrabbit the crypto flaw in debian was interesting Jul 23 14:50
blackrabbit sure pissed off a lot of tor hidden server ops running debian Jul 23 14:50
blackrabbit yes, feeds are essential Jul 23 14:50
blackrabbit in between hay and green grass Jul 23 14:51
schestowitz Windows is equally hackable. I posted a response to BN.com the day it made the news. Jul 23 14:51
schestowitz http://boycottnovell.com/2008… Jul 23 14:51
blackrabbit I was amused by a recent Word exploit Jul 23 14:51
schestowitz Just needed to Google ‘back door novell suse”. It was the first result. ;-) ;-) Jul 23 14:51
blackrabbit it’s amazing how many exploits continue to come to light Jul 23 14:51
blackrabbit thanks Jul 23 14:51
blackrabbit maybe the suse logo should have a little mailbox slot beneath the tail Jul 23 14:52
blackrabbit with a ms flag on top Jul 23 14:52
schestowitz Well, well… Jul 23 14:52
blackrabbit and a big smile on the lizard’s face Jul 23 14:52
schestowitz SUSE is one of the few that got NSA ‘treatment’ Jul 23 14:52
schestowitz Smile? Nah, it’s already there by default. Jul 23 14:53
schestowitz I wonder if “have a lot of fun” is echoed for the user to read… or the NSA. Jul 23 14:53
blackrabbit heh Jul 23 14:53
schestowitz Wow!! Jul 23 14:55
schestowitz http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/07… Jul 23 14:55
schestowitz Big surprise ’cause of the Microsoft ads in Digg. Jul 23 14:55
blackrabbit yes I read a rumor about that the other day Jul 23 14:55
blackrabbit I hope Google gets it Jul 23 14:55
blackrabbit should be amusing to see what happens to the Microsoft section were they to acquire it Jul 23 14:56
blackrabbit too bad flickr isn’t google run too Jul 23 14:56
schestowitz Microsoft might just grab Y! market share for search and break apart the Big Y. Jul 23 14:56
schestowitz Zimbra too might be safe now. Jul 23 14:57
blackrabbit http://www.provos.org/index.php… ? Jul 23 14:57
blackrabbit yes, I was concerned about zimbra Jul 23 14:58
blackrabbit http://seclists.org/isn/200… Jul 23 14:58
schestowitz This one is interesting also: http://news.cnet.com/8301-1009_3-99… ( SF mayor gets codes to hijacked city network ). have they found a scapegoat yet? People shoot and knife other people, but here they jail a man for changing passwords. Jul 23 14:59
blackrabbit lol Jul 23 14:59
*Tallken has quit (“gotta go”) Jul 23 15:00
blackrabbit http://apcmag.com/intel_to_pro… ???? Jul 23 15:01
schestowitz That DNS solver page is spyware Jul 23 15:01
schestowitz Had to enable JS to use and it has Google hawking. Jul 23 15:01
blackrabbit ? Jul 23 15:01
blackrabbit odd Jul 23 15:01
blackrabbit it was linked to from a crypto list Jul 23 15:02
blackrabbit apologies if it’s bad, I didn’t check it Jul 23 15:02
blackrabbit just google link back? Jul 23 15:02
blackrabbit referral spam? Jul 23 15:02
schestowitz Yes, Intel made some good news here, but it’s a vile and disgusting company. If only more people knew… Jul 23 15:02
schestowitz My brother in law works for Intel. :-( Jul 23 15:02
blackrabbit indeed Jul 23 15:02
blackrabbit :( Jul 23 15:03
schestowitz That’s from ‘security’ sites. Jul 23 15:03
blackrabbit Sadly, I know people working for MS Jul 23 15:03
schestowitz “Your DNS Resolver needs to be updated.” Jul 23 15:03
blackrabbit or who have worked in good positions Jul 23 15:03
blackrabbit if good and MS can be used in the same sentence Jul 23 15:03
schestowitz Stupid MCC. Don’t they care? Jul 23 15:03
blackrabbit heh Jul 23 15:04
schestowitz The peons in Intel and Microsoft can be naive or innocent, but they just ‘Follow Orders’^TM Jul 23 15:04
blackrabbit of those I know, every one of them has a strange aversion to Linux Jul 23 15:05
schestowitz Yesterday MCC was scan-porting me. Jul 23 15:05
schestowitz I blacklisted them, but I still don’t know why they probed… unless it was a zombie. Jul 23 15:05
schestowitz 8port-scanning Jul 23 15:05
blackrabbit I wonder if this Intel Linux issue is just for appearances Jul 23 15:05
schestowitz Yes. Jul 23 15:05
schestowitz They always do the Linus hug thingie, esp. after they killed OLPC (yes, they did). Jul 23 15:06
blackrabbit yup Jul 23 15:06
schestowitz BBC did this too. Ashley and Erik Huggers did the Linux-hugging thing on camera. Jul 23 15:06
blackrabbit I was surprised to see OLPC go MS friendly so quickly Jul 23 15:06
blackrabbit deep pockets deeeeep Jul 23 15:07
blackrabbit but we’ve discussed this before Jul 23 15:07
schestowitz Nick knew Gates before, but they took advantage of his weakness. Jul 23 15:07
blackrabbit with lxer articles Jul 23 15:07
blackrabbit it’s an impossible uphill battle Jul 23 15:07
blackrabbit unless more citizens are informed Jul 23 15:07
schestowitz The education, you mean? Jul 23 15:07
schestowitz I am still trying to tell people the true story,. Jul 23 15:07
schestowitz meanwehile they rewrite history in the press. Intel and Microsoft, chiefly. Jul 23 15:08
blackrabbit most people are too busy consuming and contributing to the policies of the government they can’t stand, and in their free time, rather than learning more about the issues and where their TAX MONEY goes, they start up a blog and complain, then go back to work and feed the system Jul 23 15:08
schestowitz http://boycottnovell.com/2008/0… Jul 23 15:09
blackrabbit but unlike you and groklaw, they only continue the chain of misinformation from their local media Jul 23 15:09
schestowitz Probably my last summary before I decided to turn a blind eye to and ignore the project. Jul 23 15:09
blackrabbit at least you tried Jul 23 15:09
schestowitz It drove PJ mad… well, not mad… just sad, I think. Jul 23 15:10
schestowitz The whole gates crusade against Linux adoption in education was all too obvious. Jul 23 15:10
schestowitz But the press? “Oh!! Lookie. The philantropist is donating to schools [*cough* which were just about to embrace Linux]“ Jul 23 15:11
blackrabbit is it just me or has the slashdot reader base declined? Jul 23 15:11
schestowitz Oh yeah! Jul 23 15:11
schestowitz Slashdot effect is bad. Jul 23 15:11
blackrabbit yes, I was thrilled about olpc, I thought finally.. finally linux would inch in Jul 23 15:11
blackrabbit I notice a dramatic decline in user participation Jul 23 15:11
schestowitz I started my campaign against them a while ago.. They sold  out IMHO. Jul 23 15:12
schestowitz PJ thinks so too. Jul 23 15:12
schestowitz The last time I made /. FP there was not much traffic. Jul 23 15:12
blackrabbit i’ve seen a lot of linux troll articles Jul 23 15:12
schestowitz Digg is still the Big Monster. Jul 23 15:12
blackrabbit yes but digg has too much non tech news for me Jul 23 15:12
schestowitz No, that’s not Digg Jul 23 15:12
blackrabbit I don’t like tech news mixed with a flickr photo or stupid college video post Jul 23 15:12
schestowitz That’s the DEAD Digg. :-) Jul 23 15:12
schestowitz Digg uses to be a tech site. Jul 23 15:13
schestowitz It stopped, so I almost left. Jul 23 15:13
schestowitz See… Jul 23 15:13
blackrabbit yes Jul 23 15:13
blackrabbit in its conception and infancy digg was quality Jul 23 15:13
blackrabbit there’s an ubuntu digg like spin off but its pathetic imo Jul 23 15:13
blackrabbit then there’s smokedot.org :P Jul 23 15:13
blackrabbit but that’s political and few and far between in articles Jul 23 15:14
blackrabbit kuro5hin.org went down the shitter a long time ago Jul 23 15:14
schestowitz http://schestowitz.com/We… Jul 23 15:14
schestowitz http://schestowitz.com/Weblog/archives/2008/02/17… Jul 23 15:15
schestowitz http://schestowitz.com/Weblog/arc… Jul 23 15:15
blackrabbit http://news.cnet.com/8… Jul 23 15:15
blackrabbit thanks for links, I’ll check them later Jul 23 15:15
schestowitz I’m still on Digg. Jul 23 15:16
schestowitz I comment and vote a little, but mainly contribute pro-FOSS stories. It’s for the good cause, not corpos Jul 23 15:16
schestowitz *corps Jul 23 15:16
blackrabbit don’t you get like 20+ auto digg downs even if you just say hello? Jul 23 15:17
schestowitz I’m not afraid of Google yet. As a professor said a week ago (quoted in GL), “being a monopoly is not the same as being an evil monopoly”… or something about being big is not being evil. Jul 23 15:18
schestowitz No, -4. Jul 23 15:18
schestowitz Those 4 that mod me down have been slow to bury me recently. Maybe on vacation… Jul 23 15:18
schestowitz But they are heavily active in COLA. 3 of them… Jul 23 15:18
blackrabbit I don’t see how google is a monopoly, yet Jul 23 15:18
blackrabbit there’s no one and only lock in like with proprietary microsoft file formats and OS Jul 23 15:19
blackrabbit there’s always alternatives to google Jul 23 15:19
schestowitz There are exceptions. Jul 23 15:19
schestowitz Some products have their base dependent on Google hooks and APIs. Jul 23 15:19
blackrabbit always a pleasure schestowitz, duty calls! Jul 23 15:20
schestowitz No problem. See you later. Jul 23 15:20
*blackrabbit has quit (“Leaving”) Jul 23 15:20
schestowitz Nanny nation.. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk… (  ‘Spying’ requests exceed 500,000 ) Jul 23 15:24
kentma I saw the inquirer article on this Jul 23 16:24
schestowitz BTW, Linux Today has just made your comment visible. Ta for that. Jul 23 16:24
schestowitz Glyn keeps attacking your favourite paper…http://opendotdotdot.blogspot.c… Jul 23 16:25
kentma I agree with him on that, it’s a stupid statement to make, and they really should know better. Jul 23 16:27
kentma Just looked at my LT talkback.  I was obviously feeling somewhat vitriolic… Jul 23 16:27
schestowitz It’s part of a series of such complaints. That’s why I raised this. Jul 23 16:27
schestowitz The talkback was good. I don’t usually get attacked like this when they pick my posts. Jul 23 16:28
kentma I used to be a regular comentator at Linux Today, but left around the time of the George Tirebiter incident. Jul 23 16:30
schestowitz Brian stepped down 2 weeks ago. After 6 years, I think… Jul 23 16:31
kentma The problem was, afairc, Kevin Reichard and his aliases.  He used to troll his own postings.  I was consulted by a journalist about this myself at the time, but could only add that I was sure that Tirebiter was trolling, beyond that, no evidence… Jul 23 16:35
kentma Brian Proffitt stepped up to do the job instead, and I tried to be positive about it, but it had just soured my views too much, and walked away from LT at about that time. Jul 23 16:36
kentma Slashdot was too much like Usenet but with all the disadvantages of the web and usenet combined – I still loath the way the talkbacks work, although some articles are quite good.  It always seemed like an attempt to moderate usenet to me. Jul 23 16:36
schestowitz Brian hated the MS ads. Jul 23 16:37
schestowitz He told me after he had left. Jul 23 16:37
kentma A lot of  us did, but I guess the money needs to come from somewhere… Jul 23 16:37
kentma http://www.linuxjournal.com/a… Jul 23 16:37
kentma that’s it. Jul 23 16:37
schestowitz I’d rather be deprived then sell out. Jul 23 16:37
schestowitz As for USENET, it’s the UI (native) that makes it good. Jul 23 16:38
kentma http://www.linuxjournal.com/arti… – Doc Searl’s interview with me is online there! Jul 23 16:39
schestowitz Paul Ferris contributes to LXer now, I think But only rarely… Jul 23 16:40
schestowitz Doc was in the hospital recently. Jul 23 16:41
kentma look down for “What are they using” and you’ll see Doc’s interview. Jul 23 16:41
kentma Was he – oh dear, what’s wrong with him? Jul 23 16:41
schestowitz Nothing serious. Lemmie find it… Jul 23 16:42
schestowitz http://www.linuxjournal.com/con… (with video) Jul 23 16:42
kentma ah, poor chap. Jul 23 16:43
schestowitz He’s writing frequently now, so the doc probably sez Doc is OK. Jul 23 16:44
kentma Well, I’ve invited him for another beer on his talkbacks! Jul 23 16:45
schestowitz Heh. Where’s he based anyway? Jul 23 16:48
kentma Doc?  Over in the US.  He comes to see us sometimes, though. Jul 23 16:48
schestowitz That’s what I thought.. mid east or west coast I’m guessing. Jul 23 16:50
kentma I think he’s west-coast, but I’m not 100% certain. Jul 23 16:50
kentma Lee Schlesinger is also someone I know, but I’m trying to recall where from.  Maybe he was an OSDL guy? Jul 23 16:54
schestowitz CSI is almost unheard of now. Did you attend LF Summits (invite-only)? Jul 23 16:56
schestowitz Wow. “Microsoft, the biggest software maker, has lost about $90 billion in market value this year..”www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=aqWZ_7PKAYi4&refer=news Jul 23 18:24
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