04.01.09

IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: March 31st, 2009 – Part 1

Posted in IRC Logs at 4:12 am by Dr. Roy Schestowitz

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balzac M$ should be getting “red-lined” Mar 31 00:00
balzac Until Bill Gates cries uncle and just admits, RMS is the un-disputed heavyweight of software Mar 31 00:01
balzac Bill Gates should admit that GNU rocks, copyleft is more clever than anything he’s done, and he’s been full of crap all these years. Mar 31 00:02
balzac that could save his shareholders a lot of grief if he were to stop clinging to his archaic software licenses and narrow-minded philosophy Mar 31 00:03
schestowitz I want to see what Kroes says Mar 31 00:03
schestowitz Probably nothing Mar 31 00:03
schestowitz The EC commission got schmoozed Mar 31 00:03
schestowitz Another thing MS took from the inside Mar 31 00:03
schestowitz ‘Took’ = ‘bought’ Mar 31 00:03
schestowitz Here you have Microsoft abusing a European company with invalid  patents Mar 31 00:04
schestowitz It’s abusing its position also and FAT was shot down in Europe before (in court) Mar 31 00:04
balzac politics is about being willfully obtuse in order to represent the ignorance of the masses Mar 31 00:06
balzac everyone who is embracing software patents is ignorant or willfully obtuse Mar 31 00:07
balzac Hillary Clinton would support software patents with a mind-numbing slogan and a big grin Mar 31 00:08
MinceR gn Mar 31 00:09
schestowitz balzac: help organise some digital protest against swpats Mar 31 00:10
balzac later MinceR Mar 31 00:10
schestowitz Make them nervous Mar 31 00:10
schestowitz They are very afraid that the big lie will explode… like a bubble Mar 31 00:10
balzac schestowitz: I have to focus on my work primarily Mar 31 00:10
schestowitz It’s a system of lies Mar 31 00:10
schestowitz Where monopolies gain Mar 31 00:10
balzac but I will oppose software patents by civil disobedience, should it come to that Mar 31 00:10
schestowitz Do what Jon Loch did.. Mar 31 00:10
balzac Deliberately call attention to a specific “infringement” of their most cherished software patent Mar 31 00:11
balzac but I don’t have the time to worry about that idiocy Mar 31 00:12
balzac no time for “angstivism” Mar 31 00:12
balzac must get money for strippers… Mar 31 00:12
balzac Roy, I made up that word Mar 31 00:13
Balrog_ civil disobedience? Mar 31 00:13
balzac angstivism – fruitless activism driven by angst Mar 31 00:13
balzac George Soros is the opposite of an “angstivist” Mar 31 00:14
balzac PETA is almost purely angstivism Mar 31 00:14
balzac Free Software advocacy is quite awesome and powerful activism, but there can be angsty overtones at times Mar 31 00:15
balzac Al Gore does angstivism at times Mar 31 00:16
balzac anyone who uses Paris Hilton as part of their socially-concerned activist shpiel is probably involved in some kind of angstivism Mar 31 00:16
balzac Al Gore couldn’t resist Mar 31 00:16
balzac The artist, Banksy did it too Mar 31 00:17
schestowitz Angst leads to gore Mar 31 00:17
balzac Nader has many years of solid activism, but his recent run for president was pretty angsty Mar 31 00:18
balzac Kucinich was better Mar 31 00:18
balzac If the FSF ponied up enough cash to hire Paris Hilton for a few spots, it would be excellent, but it’s counter-intuitive. Mar 31 00:20
balzac So many people would object, but they’d all be wrong. Mar 31 00:20
schestowitz What does it have to do with celebrity icons? Mar 31 00:23
balzac superficiality Mar 31 00:24
schestowitz Plastic surgery can’t buy the elections, not even in the US Mar 31 00:24
schestowitz A country can be reformed through education but not in a single generation Mar 31 00:24
schestowitz As RMS called it, “mind-virus” Mar 31 00:24
balzac I never heard Paris had any plastic surgery Mar 31 00:24
schestowitz That’s what I heard Mar 31 00:24
balzac well, she looks hot to me, not a trainwreck – yet Mar 31 00:24
balzac superficiality, charisma, distraction, uselessness – these can be good Mar 31 00:26
balzac levity rather than the drama of a “purpose-driven” approach Mar 31 00:26
balzac existentialism rather than progressive-ism Mar 31 00:26
schestowitz There’s more to life than that. Mar 31 00:27
schestowitz It encourages dumbing down of the population as well Mar 31 00:27
schestowitz Glorification of ignorance Mar 31 00:27
balzac instant gratification rather than incremental “progress” which ultimately never attains the stated goal Mar 31 00:27
balzac schestowitz: I would cite Lao Tzu’s Tao te Ching in defense of laziness, uselessness, and other things which can be virtues in the right context Mar 31 00:28
balzac It’s called the “dark virtue” Mar 31 00:29
schestowitz Like war? Mar 31 00:29
balzac nope, war is angst-driven Mar 31 00:29
schestowitz “war is peace” –Orwell Mar 31 00:29
schestowitz Why suffer the dperession? Mar 31 00:29
schestowitz No money? Mar 31 00:29
schestowitz No job? Mar 31 00:29
schestowitz Join the army Mar 31 00:29
schestowitz Find friends Mar 31 00:29
schestowitz Get bed and food Mar 31 00:29
schestowitz get a big gun Mar 31 00:30
schestowitz Enjoy the battlefield Mar 31 00:30
schestowitz Shoot Iraqis Mar 31 00:30
balzac wilhelm reich had some good insights on how problems of human psychology lead to wars Mar 31 00:30
schestowitz Like in CounterStrike Mar 31 00:30
balzac sexual frustration being a key driving-force Mar 31 00:30
schestowitz Freud worte about ti too Mar 31 00:30
schestowitz Before WW1 Mar 31 00:30
schestowitz About animal instincts that can erupt in men Mar 31 00:30
balzac schestowitz: the playing-field of sloganeering, propaganda, non-intellectualism cannot be ceded to those who are not sane enough to handle it responsibly Mar 31 00:31
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balzac if repressed, these animal instincts will erupt violently Mar 31 00:31
balzac that’s why, non-intellectualism (not anti-intellectualism) must be acknowledged and accepted Mar 31 00:32
schestowitz Did you see the Hitler Youth shouting deliriously? Mar 31 00:32
schestowitz I wonder if there is group-think involved in these things Mar 31 00:32
schestowitz Like an infectious trend…peer minitation Mar 31 00:33
schestowitz *imitation Mar 31 00:33
balzac yep, but that underlying angst combine with the purpose-driven mentality, conviction in self-rightousness, and willingness to use deadly force – those were the main problems Mar 31 00:33
schestowitz This works well with celebrities Mar 31 00:33
balzac you can see young people shouting deliriously at the superbowl, quite harmlessly Mar 31 00:33
schestowitz Once a person (like Hilton) is admired, the likelihood of admiration from another person grows greater Mar 31 00:33
balzac because sport is existentialist, while social-agendas are purpose-driven Mar 31 00:34
schestowitz That too Mar 31 00:34
schestowitz Sports events can be tribal, by design Mar 31 00:34
schestowitz nationalism or localism Mar 31 00:34
balzac non-utilitarian lifestyle activities are key Mar 31 00:34
*_Hicham_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) Mar 31 00:39
balzac Joe Lewis beating Max Shmeling was an important victory Mar 31 00:39
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schestowitz What’s what about? Mar 31 00:44
balzac what I just mentioned? Mar 31 00:47
balzac Lewis beating Schmeling was a victory in a sport which struck a psychological blow to the advocates of eugenics Mar 31 00:48
balzac it’s a good thing that fight happened Mar 31 00:48
schestowitz Any video? Mar 31 00:50
balzac they had two fights Mar 31 00:50
balzac schmeling beat joe lewis earlier in their careers Mar 31 00:50
balzac joe lewis won the next fight Mar 31 00:50
balzac check it out on youtube Mar 31 00:50
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schestowitz wb, tacone Mar 31 00:53
tacone pidgin crashed Mar 31 00:53
schestowitz balzac: I will do later Mar 31 00:53
schestowitz tacone: into a Windows (pigeon) Mar 31 00:54
tacone ? Mar 31 00:54
tacone windows ? Mar 31 00:54
Balrog_ pidgin is linux Mar 31 00:57
Balrog_ for linux * Mar 31 00:57
tacone lol Mar 31 00:57
tacone you read my ctcp, right ? Mar 31 00:57
tacone “Microsoft Internet Explorer 5.5 IRC ActiveX” Mar 31 00:58
schestowitz I didn’t Mar 31 01:00
schestowitz I made a joke about a bird flying into a window Mar 31 01:00
tacone oh Mar 31 01:01
Balrog_ tacone: why is that? are you using windows? Mar 31 01:01
tacone no, a pidgin plugin that let you set what you want. Mar 31 01:01
schestowitz SLED3.11? Mar 31 01:01
Balrog_ ah lol Mar 31 01:01
Balrog_ that’s cool Mar 31 01:01
tacone that’s just a joke Mar 31 01:02
tacone but i’ll have to powerup some windows vm Mar 31 01:02
tacone to try ubuntu portable Mar 31 01:02
tacone i’m not a fan of colinux, but i think that would be a nice addition to the livecd, if mixing is technically possible. Mar 31 01:03
schestowitz re swpats: I saw the page from Phipps and discussed it by E-mail with FFII folks. Update tomorrow. Mar 31 01:05
schestowitz balzac: Red Hat is not the bad guy Mar 31 01:05
schestowitz There might be disinfo Mar 31 01:05
balzac Roy, I know Mar 31 01:06
schestowitz Still negotiated Mar 31 01:07
schestowitz Some competition there too Mar 31 01:07
schestowitz Red Hat competitots Mar 31 01:07
balzac But we’re not having a slumber-party and playing with a miniature tea set Mar 31 01:07
balzac it’s fine to verbally rip whats-his-name Mar 31 01:07
balzac Redhat CEO Mar 31 01:07
schestowitz go to #boycottnovell-social Mar 31 01:08
schestowitz I’ll post it there Mar 31 01:08
balzac CEO’s often get to where they are by pounding their fists and yelling Mar 31 01:08
balzac so they can handle getting dissed on irc Mar 31 01:08
balzac I’m pretty pleased with the NYSE deal Mar 31 01:08
balzac I appreciate the executives who did that, including Whitehurst and even Fiorini (to whatever extent she was involved) Mar 31 01:09
schestowitz I’m pasting it in #boycottnovell-social to avoid flood here Mar 31 01:09
balzac ok, I don’t need to carry on about it Mar 31 01:10
balzac feel free to excise whatever you think is not relevant from your posted log files Mar 31 01:11
balzac I ought to get back to work. Mar 31 01:12
schestowitz Did you know OOo download pace doubled in less than a year? Was about 1.3m/week, now about 2.5,/week? Mar 31 01:12
balzac great news Mar 31 01:12
schestowitz People feel the pinch Mar 31 01:12
schestowitz So they get The Dove (or Gull) Mar 31 01:13
balzac what’s that? Mar 31 01:14
balzac you mean the logo of OOo ? Mar 31 01:16
schestowitz Yes Mar 31 01:22
schestowitz Also blog name Mar 31 01:22
schestowitz Main blog anyway Mar 31 01:22
schestowitz Microsoft is therefore dumping MSO Mar 31 01:22
schestowitz I wrote about it this morning in BN Mar 31 01:22
balzac wow Mar 31 01:23
balzac Archaic software licenses and exorbitant prices are not sustainable… who could have predicted that? Mar 31 01:24
balzac I saw you mention a correspondence from Tienman earlier. Mar 31 01:25
balzac hilarious graphics in your postings today Mar 31 01:27
schestowitz Which one? Mar 31 01:29
balzac The “Guppy” plane carpet-bombing peasants with the Marie Antoinette quote Mar 31 01:31
balzac The mono dialog box Mar 31 01:31
balzac I like your use of imagechef too, for some nice decorations Mar 31 01:31
schestowitz OOo downloads at  2,000,000-3,000,000 < http://blogs.sun.com/j… > vs. “downloaded more than 1.2M times per week” < http://blogs.sun.com/dancer/ent… > Mar 31 01:31
balzac I’ve been wondering if Sun would buy Canonical Mar 31 01:32
tacone unlikely. Mar 31 01:32
balzac so Sun would have something more current and conventional to offer than solaris Mar 31 01:33
balzac I didn’t enjoy Solaris much when I used it Mar 31 01:33
balzac and I don’t like the way Sun is making users fill out too many forms and log in to get downloads of their packages Mar 31 01:34
balzac and handling the presentation of mysql in unconventional ways, man-handling it a bit Mar 31 01:34
balzac tacone: why not? Mar 31 01:35
balzac Shuttleworth is too smart to sell out, probably. Mar 31 01:36
balzac he’s just finally had a profitable quarter, right? Mar 31 01:36
tacone i don’t think he wants money so badly. Mar 31 01:36
balzac i agree Mar 31 01:36
tacone he likes money, but don’t need it fast. Mar 31 01:36
tacone would be stupid to sell a growing company Mar 31 01:36
balzac what will Sun do about enterpise GNU and Linux? Mar 31 01:37
tacone you usually sell a growing company if you have no money and no longer want to work for the rest of your life. Mar 31 01:37
balzac surely opensolaris is not their answer Mar 31 01:37
schestowitz SUN is selling itself Mar 31 01:37
schestowitz It ain’t buying Mar 31 01:37
tacone i have no clue, but they would be better set trying to buy suse or any other smaller distro Mar 31 01:37
balzac buy novell you mean? Mar 31 01:38
tacone no, buy suse. why novell ? Mar 31 01:38
balzac I didn’t know it was a company Mar 31 01:38
tacone i am fantasizing, of course. Mar 31 01:38
balzac how about hire up the best suse devs and pry it away from novell? Mar 31 01:38
balzac that would suck for novell Mar 31 01:38
tacone that way you don’t get the community Mar 31 01:39
tacone you get a part. and flames after flames. Mar 31 01:39
balzac well, the suse community needs to be rescued from novell or it’ll just dissipate Mar 31 01:39
tacone shuttleworth posted on their mailing list some year ago, lol Mar 31 01:39
tacone schestowitz: remember ? Mar 31 01:39
schestowitz Yes Mar 31 01:40
schestowitz They should go to them Mar 31 01:40
tacone to ubuntu you mean ? Mar 31 01:40
schestowitz Well, someone from Red Hat mailed me because I asked them to hire sacked SUSE devs Mar 31 01:40
schestowitz Sort of asked Mar 31 01:40
schestowitz Because they hired Mandriva devs Mar 31 01:40
schestowitz And Red Hat is a growing company, so… Mar 31 01:40
schestowitz I’m not sure Canonical is hiring Mar 31 01:41
tacone what did he say ? Mar 31 01:41
tacone yes, it’s hiring. Mar 31 01:41
schestowitz “They’re working on it” Mar 31 01:41
tacone but slowly. Mar 31 01:41
tacone well, most hires are the one you don’t see Mar 31 01:41
schestowitz SUSE has 2 teams Mar 31 01:41
schestowitz The Boston(ish) team Mar 31 01:41
tacone they put together a design compartment Mar 31 01:41
schestowitz And the German team Mar 31 01:41
schestowitz German team does Linux Mar 31 01:41
tacone but no one knows who they are, or at least, not me. Mar 31 01:41
schestowitz US team does Microsoft poisonware Mar 31 01:42
schestowitz So the Germans make good Linux, kernel, etc Mar 31 01:42
tacone and they hire br Mar 31 01:42
tacone but as for the engineers, they’re quite slowly paced. Mar 31 01:42
schestowitz Then de Icaza and his losers come and put poison on top and sing about how glorious Ballmer is… Mar 31 01:42
schestowitz So it’s a good thing they are a long distance apart Mar 31 01:42
balzac I was rooting for John Schwarz from Sun to pull things together there Mar 31 01:42
schestowitz Novell does nothing to SuSE (old S.u.S.E.) by ruin it for MS bribes Mar 31 01:43
schestowitz $100m was the last bribe Mar 31 01:43
schestowitz “Poison Linux, get cookie” Mar 31 01:43
balzac Sun should hire up some of these SuSE devs Mar 31 01:43
balzac get more serious about GNU & Linux Mar 31 01:43
balzac and have a debian-based enterprise distro Mar 31 01:43
schestowitz Won’t happen Mar 31 01:44
schestowitz SUN gave up Mar 31 01:44
schestowitz They put themselves up to be shopped Mar 31 01:44
schestowitz So they won’t gobble up or develop anything Mar 31 01:44
balzac why, because they’re too emotionally attached to their proprietary unix legacy? Mar 31 01:44
_Hicham_ Solaris is dead Mar 31 01:45
balzac hell, they should’ve released as much of it as legally possible under GPLv3 Mar 31 01:45
balzac and called Torvald’s bluff Mar 31 01:45
balzac The CDDL just isn’t sexy Mar 31 01:45
balzac the opensolaris community reminds me of an embittered former soviet republic Mar 31 01:46
balzac that’s how I felt about the solaris bureaucracy in this company I worked at Mar 31 01:46
balzac there were even some old grumpy guys unix from russia and eastern europe Mar 31 01:47
balzac I told one of my contacts there that their company is suffering “bureaucratic sclerosis” Mar 31 01:49
balzac I know how to sweet-talk em. I bet they’ll be offering me a big signing bonus any time now… Mar 31 01:50
schestowitz Balrog: he gave the Coke spiel Mar 31 01:50
schestowitz Asking if it was indeed Pepsi Mar 31 01:50
schestowitz balzac: yes, solaris is like some buried nuclear missile from the 60s Mar 31 01:52
balzac heheh Mar 31 01:52
balzac bunch of crusty guys, still manning their stations in the missile silo Mar 31 01:52
balzac The first couple of phone meetings I had, they were talking about their “big iron” and “production environment” and policies Mar 31 01:54
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balzac but Sun doesn’t maintain their repositories nearly as well as Canonical Mar 31 01:55
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balzac so it’s no picnic trying to get simple things done. I was somewhat more ignorant of sysadmin tasks, but I wasn’t there as a sysadmin. Mar 31 01:55
balzac I was practically “hazed” by the unix bureaucracy because they found it hard to just get a proper webserver going. Mar 31 01:56
schestowitz Balrog: can you do noise cancellation for background sound? Mar 31 01:56
Balrog_ asking me? Mar 31 01:56
Balrog_ no, unfortunately Mar 31 01:56
schestowitz balzac: that’s why they call it Big Iron Mar 31 01:56
Balrog_ he used a mic, which led to echo Mar 31 01:56
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schestowitz That’s OK Mar 31 01:57
schestowitz Caused you asked for feedback/suggestion Mar 31 01:57
Balrog_ if you know of a good filter (preferably one in mplayer) let me know Mar 31 01:57
Balrog_ yeah it’s ok Mar 31 01:57
balzac I should be running their IT department Mar 31 01:57
Balrog_ whose it dep’t? Mar 31 01:58
balzac some large company in manhattan which will remain nameless Mar 31 01:58
Balrog_ heh ok Mar 31 01:58
balzac schestowitz: I wish I had contacts inside Redhat Mar 31 01:59
oiaohm I wish I had a contact inside Redhat who liked me. Mar 31 02:00
balzac honestly, i’m not completely opposed to the idea of RHCE for myself Mar 31 02:00
oiaohm Got one that does not like me. Mar 31 02:00
balzac but some days I’m more cantankerous than others Mar 31 02:00
oiaohm You sound like me balzac Mar 31 02:01
Balrog_ RHCE? Mar 31 02:01
balzac so I say things bad anti-corporate things which would would make people’s eyes tear up for a second Mar 31 02:01
balzac Redhat certified engineer, if I got their acronym right Mar 31 02:02
oiaohm Yep you got it right balzac I was just trying to type it. Mar 31 02:02
Balrog_ ah ok. Mar 31 02:02
balzac The McDonalds comparisons were probably regrettable in retrospect Mar 31 02:02
balzac I was pushing for Redhat in this company for their transaction servers Mar 31 02:03
oiaohm Comparing redhat secuirty defects to windows ones was my regrettable in retrospect Mar 31 02:03
Balrog_ explain. Mar 31 02:03
oiaohm You are aware that X11 in every before current Fedora runs as root Balrog_ Mar 31 02:04
Balrog_ that’s not good!!! Mar 31 02:04
balzac I just don’t know if I’d end up feeling like a got in the wrong lane while Canonical is growing quickly and I started trying to get socially integrated with Redhat people… Mar 31 02:04
Balrog_ is that necessary? Mar 31 02:04
oiaohm It was necessary due to poor design of X11 Mar 31 02:05
Balrog_ ah. Mar 31 02:05
balzac for that matter, I’d be forsaking my neutrality as a consultant if I got a particular corporate certification Mar 31 02:05
oiaohm I basically told them that they should not be claiming to be providing a secure desktop until they fixed X11 because the secuirty was basically just as stuffed as windows in GUI mode. Mar 31 02:05
balzac I should just remain unaffiliated and try to build my consulting business Mar 31 02:05
oiaohm Not a wise line to use. Mar 31 02:06
oiaohm True but still not a wise line to use. Mar 31 02:06
balzac It’s good to be diplomatic Mar 31 02:06
balzac or else you can end up like the guy in office space who got his stapler confiscated and his cubicle moved to the basement Mar 31 02:07
oiaohm One of my friends decriptins of me is.  If being diplomatic was using a small jewellers hammer.   Normally not diplomatic would be a sledhammer and that I am a building leveling recking ball. Mar 31 02:08
oiaohm Its about true.  I normally say then think opps. Mar 31 02:08
balzac oiaohm: I would offer you an unprofessional prescription of xanax Mar 31 02:09
oiaohm In the work I do being diplomatic don’t help. Mar 31 02:09
balzac jk Mar 31 02:09
oiaohm Its more jump now. Mar 31 02:10
oiaohm I get pulled out when anyone asks for a 100 percent truthful answer. Mar 31 02:12
oiaohm Most of the time they regret it. Mar 31 02:12
balzac that’s a setup Mar 31 02:12
oiaohm Rare cases they get prase for a good job. Mar 31 02:12
balzac the guys who summon you to be asked for the sincere response are mitigating their risk by delegating it to you Mar 31 02:13
balzac you should ask them why they’re asking you Mar 31 02:13
oiaohm Funny part custommers normally ask for me as lead next time. Mar 31 02:14
oiaohm Most of them are after the 100 percent truth no suger coating. Mar 31 02:14
balzac lead dev/engineer or manager Mar 31 02:14
oiaohm Secuirty consultant and network designer. Mar 31 02:14
balzac do you get to delegate tasks? Mar 31 02:15
oiaohm Yep. Mar 31 02:15
balzac that’s important Mar 31 02:15
balzac I got bogged down by not having the percieved stature to delegate much Mar 31 02:16
oiaohm Secuirty being diplomatic with really don’t help. Mar 31 02:16
oiaohm Either it working or it broken. Mar 31 02:16
balzac I should learn more security stuff specifically in my sysadmin studies Mar 31 02:16
balzac credibility in IT security can’t be attained overnight Mar 31 02:18
schestowitz I was just thinking, what’s the likelihood of some WIndows nutter tossing an egg at RMS at a talk? Mar 31 02:18
balzac that would be hilarious Mar 31 02:18
schestowitz Would he duck like a sissy Ballmer (behind a table)? Mar 31 02:19
balzac if it doesn’t happen, it should be staged by an agent provocateur in a suit Mar 31 02:19
balzac jk, eggs can actually be pretty bad to get hit by Mar 31 02:19
balzac I’d duck “like a sissy” Mar 31 02:19
oiaohm Here goes my day off again Mar 31 02:20
oiaohm Why do things have to screw up when I have a rostered day off. Mar 31 02:20
balzac I thought it was amusing when that M$ guy won the auction for the stuffed GNU Mar 31 02:20
*oiaohm has quit (Remote closed the connection) Mar 31 02:21
balzac http://www.youtube.com/watch?v…  <– this is what RMS would do to an egg thrower Mar 31 02:24
balzac my sense of humor needs to be refined a bit. it’s pretty terrible. Mar 31 02:25
_Hicham_ u have a great sense of humor balzac, and I like it Mar 31 02:27
_Hicham_ usually this room get warm when there is oiaohm and u Mar 31 02:28
schestowitz http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=… Mar 31 02:28
balzac _Hicham_: sounds like you’re implying oiaohm and I should get a room together. Mar 31 02:29
balzac no thanks man. Mar 31 02:29
schestowitz He said warm Mar 31 02:29
schestowitz Not “hot and heavy” Mar 31 02:30
balzac I laughed out loud ad that egging Mar 31 02:30
balzac he popped off like a true irish peugelist Mar 31 02:30
balzac nevermind, he’s a limey old brit Mar 31 02:31
_Hicham_ balzac : u went really far Mar 31 02:31
_Hicham_ basically, oiaohm is a radical person Mar 31 02:32
balzac it’s traditional for people of irish descent to talk trash about british, and traditional for americans as well Mar 31 02:32
_Hicham_ and u, u are rather pragmatic Mar 31 02:32
balzac and scots hate to be mistaken for brits Mar 31 02:32
balzac oiaohm is probably a toothless beer-swilling aussie Mar 31 02:33
schestowitz What?!?! Mar 31 02:33
_Hicham_ balzac : how do u know? Mar 31 02:34
balzac white australians are the least classy Mar 31 02:34
balzac new zealanders have more class Mar 31 02:34
balzac it’s just a joke Mar 31 02:34
_Hicham_ balzac : oiaohm will get really mad if he heard that Mar 31 02:34
_Hicham_ :D Mar 31 02:34
balzac well, suppose I call him crocodile dundee? Mar 31 02:34
balzac put another shrimp on the barbie, mate! Outback Steakhouse! Bloomin’ Onion! Mar 31 02:35
balzac it’s the xanax talking Mar 31 02:35
_Hicham_ he will lose all of his internal data Mar 31 02:35
balzac core dump Mar 31 02:35
balzac someone will have to save the log file for him Mar 31 02:35
_Hicham_ and there will be no one to recover that data Mar 31 02:35
balzac americans are the butt of british humor, and irish as well Mar 31 02:35
balzac Aussies are funny, they call women “sheilas” Mar 31 02:36
_Hicham_ british people don’t have a sense of humor Mar 31 02:36
schestowitz Oh, he left… Mar 31 02:36
_Hicham_ except Roy maybe Mar 31 02:36
schestowitz I thought he was still hee. Mar 31 02:36
schestowitz *here Mar 31 02:36
balzac Roy, I’m not worried if he sees the logfile Mar 31 02:37
balzac he was talking trash about Americans Mar 31 02:37
schestowitz balzac: so stop this nonsense Mar 31 02:37
balzac well, that’s what he gets Mar 31 02:37
schestowitz It serves no purpose Mar 31 02:37
balzac you know i’m not at all serious Mar 31 02:37
_Hicham_ Roy : balzac is just kidding Mar 31 02:37
balzac i would apologize if he asked me to Mar 31 02:37
_Hicham_ Roy : stop being serious Mar 31 02:37
_Hicham_ Roy : i know british people are serious Mar 31 02:38
balzac the bloomin onion had to be the most stinging joke Mar 31 02:38
_Hicham_ Roy : people like balzac are fundamental in ur campaign Mar 31 02:38
_Hicham_ u can’t win without balzac Mar 31 02:38
schestowitz _Hicham_: I know Mar 31 02:38
balzac australians are cool as hell, but quite a lot of the credit goes to native australian culture affecting those of european descent Mar 31 02:38
schestowitz But nonetheless it can be miscomprehended Mar 31 02:39
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_Hicham_ well, oiaohm know us all Mar 31 02:39
balzac except that Rupert Murdoch sucks and so did John Howard Mar 31 02:40
balzac Rudd seems cool Mar 31 02:40
_Hicham_ there is nothing to worry about Mar 31 02:40
_Hicham_ we are all cool Roy Mar 31 02:41
_Hicham_ it is just that sometimes we need to joke Mar 31 02:41
balzac When I make class-humor at the expense of Australians, it’s white australians I’m making fun of. Mar 31 02:41
_Hicham_ Roy is silent Mar 31 02:43
_Hicham_ maybe he is mad Mar 31 02:43
schestowitz No, just going to bed Mar 31 02:44
schestowitz Done posting the links for today Mar 31 02:44
schestowitz gn Mar 31 02:44
balzac later roy Mar 31 02:44
balzac please put in a good word with tienman for me Mar 31 02:44
_Hicham_ good night Roy Mar 31 02:45
_Hicham_ balzac : did u upset oiaohm? Mar 31 02:45
balzac I won’t know until someone gives him the log from tonight Mar 31 02:47
balzac If he can’t laugh about it, I’ll apologize, but I’ll still be happy tell him he’s wrong about this or that. Mar 31 02:48
balzac like his criticism of the GCC Mar 31 02:49
balzac some of his criticism is useful, but some of it is offered without any follow-up on what to do about it Mar 31 02:51
_Hicham_ he criticizes GCC a lot, yes Mar 31 02:55
_Hicham_ he want radical changes in GCC Mar 31 02:55
balzac yeah, well that one by accomplished by “angstivism” Mar 31 02:57
balzac I told him last time that technical competence is not the only key, it’s also the degree to which you embrace the philosophy of a given project. Mar 31 02:57
balzac He agreed and thought it wasn’t good, but I think that’s how it should be. Mar 31 03:00
balzac If I had an important project under my control and a guy was offering great code, but challenging the founding principles of the project, I would say “thank you for your ideas, but I cannot accept your code”. Mar 31 03:01
_Hicham_ oiaohm doesn’t think like that Mar 31 03:01
_Hicham_ he likes whatever works Mar 31 03:02
balzac Because then he would begin to leverage his code commits for the purpose of changing the project’s direction to what he has in mind Mar 31 03:02
balzac well, he isn’t very excited about the GNU vision Mar 31 03:02
balzac he is predicting the demise of the GNU project, again and again Mar 31 03:02
balzac I saw an old smart unix guy on a mailing list heavily criticising the GNU project’s documentation Mar 31 03:03
balzac he made some valid points, but he was so filled with contempt for the current state of things, I doubt he was embraced Mar 31 03:04
balzac You can only ask people to relinquish so much of their dignity to your criticism if you expect them to use it directly Mar 31 03:05
balzac ego and social stature are worth something as well Mar 31 03:05
_Hicham_ oiaohm just thinks different Mar 31 03:08
_Hicham_ he just seen a lot of events I think Mar 31 03:08
_Hicham_ that is why Mar 31 03:08
twitter I found something useful in MiniM$FT’s blog after all http://slashdot.org/~twitter… Mar 31 03:10
twitter updating the death watch.  http://slashdot.org/~twitter/j… Mar 31 03:13
twitter gn Mar 31 03:13
_Hicham_ are u still here balzac? Mar 31 03:33
balzac yo Mar 31 03:33
balzac I’m having a problem getting my ssh keep alive working Mar 31 03:34
balzac i’m a little bit pissed abou it Mar 31 03:34
balzac about it Mar 31 03:34
qdev 06/29/2007 – GPL3 negates the Novell Patent Deal. Mar 31 03:39
qdev does gpl3 really negate that deal? Mar 31 03:39
qdev 10/23 – Russia moves all schools to GNU/Linux. This is what they said they would do when M$ sued and threatened school teacher with jail for “Piracy”. Mar 31 03:41
qdev that’s actually not true Mar 31 03:42
qdev schools still buy windows, ’cause educational plan almost states that you gotta teach windows Mar 31 03:43
qdev lol, if everything is like described there in the deathwatch, m$ should be already dead Mar 31 03:52
balzac how strange Mar 31 03:52
balzac qdev: that’s what I love about BN Mar 31 03:53
qdev what’s bn? Mar 31 03:53
balzac There’s blood in water! Look’s like meat’s back on the menu boys! Mar 31 03:53
balzac BoycottNovell.com Mar 31 03:53
qdev ah Mar 31 03:53
balzac I’m just dying to get some of that revenue that Microsoft is enjoying Mar 31 03:54
balzac just a little nibble of their market-share Mar 31 03:54
qdev i read m$ fired plenty of developers already Mar 31 03:55
balzac sorry for the poor slobs Mar 31 03:55
qdev wtf is writing win7 then Mar 31 03:55
balzac I’m sorry that their educational institutions gave them such limited curriculum Mar 31 03:55
balzac sorry their company insists on using such archaic licenses Mar 31 03:55
qdev education in russia is effed up nowadays Mar 31 03:55
balzac sorry to hear that Mar 31 03:57
balzac is that where you are? Mar 31 03:57
qdev yeah Mar 31 03:57
qdev http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/brows… Mar 31 03:57
balzac that’s not bad Mar 31 03:58
balzac FF was less than 5% not long ago, now they’re above 21% internationally Mar 31 03:59
balzac it’s the tipping point – your first 10% is harder than the next 40% Mar 31 03:59
qdev i just don’t get which browser people use worldwide Mar 31 04:00
balzac once you’re beyond %30 market-share, you’ve probably already gone past half way, because it accelerates after that Mar 31 04:00
qdev wtf it can be sane to use ie Mar 31 04:00
balzac FF is the one Mar 31 04:00
balzac it’s the best for developers and the most innovative for users Mar 31 04:00
balzac curing the years-old problem of media codecs wars from proprietary software vendors Mar 31 04:01
qdev i know, have ie banned at home by firewall Mar 31 04:01
balzac FF3.1 – ogg theora video support Mar 31 04:01
balzac bookmarks managed by sqlite Mar 31 04:01
balzac strong SVG support Mar 31 04:02
balzac great plugin-architecture Mar 31 04:02
balzac the gold standard GNU GPL license Mar 31 04:02
balzac and it’s the cavalry, leading the charge, the point of the phalanx which is breaking through the impenetrable wall of Microsoft monopoly Mar 31 04:03
balzac GNU-power! Mar 31 04:04
qdev i will personally appreciate moment when ie hits 10% to never rise again Mar 31 04:04
qdev ’cause it’s kinda should-never-existed browser Mar 31 04:05
balzac yeah Mar 31 04:05
_Hicham_ I just finished rebranding Iceweasel and Icedove Mar 31 04:06
balzac well, Marc Andreesen from Netscape said they were going to defeat Microsoft Mar 31 04:06
_Hicham_ now I have my Firefox and Thunderbird artwork back Mar 31 04:06
balzac so Microsoft stepped on Netscape like a cockroach Mar 31 04:06
balzac cool Mar 31 04:06
balzac now Microsoft is being eaten alive Mar 31 04:07
balzac maybe that metaphor is a little too colorful Mar 31 04:10
balzac let’s just say their capital and market-share on declining Mar 31 04:10
qdev it’s better to celebrate when m$ market share is an obvious loss Mar 31 04:15
balzac it is obvious Mar 31 04:16
balzac IE is being devoured by Mozilla FF Mar 31 04:16
balzac that is a crucial component – the interface of the user to the internet Mar 31 04:16
balzac FF defeating IE is going to break their control of their users’ perceptions Mar 31 04:17
balzac thereby causing them to lose everything else Mar 31 04:17
balzac by the time Microsoft abandons their archaic licenses and exorbitant prices, it will be far too late Mar 31 04:17
balzac plus they have to worry about such a sudden loss of share-holder confidence, that people get paranoid and call it a ponzi-scheme with too much imaginary value derived from creative accounting Mar 31 04:18
balzac Microsoft could go down like the soviet union in a relatively short period of time Mar 31 04:18
qdev soviet union went to it about 70 years Mar 31 04:20
qdev i hope m$ doesn’t live that long Mar 31 04:21
balzac qdev: the point is, it happened very quickly at the end Mar 31 04:21
balzac the berlin wall came down and everything unraveled in a short period of time after that Mar 31 04:21
balzac IE losing to FF is like the fall of the Berlin Wall Mar 31 04:21
balzac so the 21% international marketshare of Firefox means that the wall has been breached Mar 31 04:22
balzac and the pace of growth of FF is only accelerating Mar 31 04:22
balzac look at a graph and you’ll see Mar 31 04:22
qdev i doubt that it’s 21, 30-40 most likely Mar 31 04:22
balzac some places in Europe, it’s over 50% Mar 31 04:23
balzac I read somewhere Mar 31 04:23
qdev it would be good if china accepted gnu/linux at a government level Mar 31 04:23
balzac yeah, I lobbied for it with a chinese entrepreneur when I was there Mar 31 04:26
balzac he had high communist party officials he knew Mar 31 04:26
balzac Bad software makes me want to blow a gasket Mar 31 04:27
balzac bad software really makes the veins in my temples throb Mar 31 04:27
balzac I get really pissed at bad software nowadays. I’m sick of having to support IE for my websits. Mar 31 04:27
balzac I even get pissed at GPL-licensed software when it doesn’t work as expected. Mar 31 04:29
balzac I get pissed at bad or incomplete documentation, incompatibilities, etc. Mar 31 04:30
balzac But proprietary software is just funny, just a bad joke being played on consumers. Mar 31 04:30
_Hicham_ China doesn’t use Linux? Mar 31 04:36
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balzac I’m annoying my friends, both on-line and off-line Mar 31 05:03
balzac it must be the combination of aderrall and xanax Mar 31 05:05
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Omar87 Hi all Mar 31 05:23
Omar87 schestowitz: I was just enjoying reading your latest posts on BN. Mar 31 05:23
Omar87 They’re amazing! :D Mar 31 05:24
Omar87 “I’m going to f—ing kill Google.” ~ Steve Ballmer —>> “Actually, you’re going to f—ing kiss my a–.” ~ My response to him. Mar 31 05:27
Omar87 “Google’s not a real company. It’s a house of cards.” ~ Steve Ballmer —>> “Yeah, f—ing right.” ~ My response to him. Mar 31 05:29
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balzac haha Mar 31 05:45
balzac gotta love steve ballmer Mar 31 05:45
balzac he’s one funny guy Mar 31 05:45
balzac and nobody can tell him he’s wrong or he’ll probably scare the crap out of them Mar 31 05:46
balzac but those two weasels from google are too much for the bald, bewildered ballmer Mar 31 05:47
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schestowitz hey Mar 31 08:48
MinceR hay Mar 31 08:54
schestowitz I’ll do some posts soon. Mar 31 08:55
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schestowitz Beranger is back on Linux: http://beranger.org/v3/wordpress/2… Mar 31 10:45
schestowitz http://beranger.org/v3/wordpress/20… http://beranger.org/v3/wordpress/2009/03/25… Mar 31 10:46
schestowitz His whole blog seems to be just about GNU/Linux. He couldn’t help it and he ran back to momma Linux. Mar 31 10:47
MinceR lol Mar 31 10:48
MinceR let me guess, he won’t write a post explaining how windows or whatever he went back crying to just didn’t cut it after all Mar 31 10:49
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schestowitz MinceR: no, that would make the poster a “loser” Mar 31 11:02
schestowitz Maybe he had a chance to see what a turd Windows is for everyday use Mar 31 11:03
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oiaohm I kinda annoyed him from the start of his windows cycle. Mar 31 11:38
oiaohm Really did not like the point that after a while using windows faults of Linux would not seam that bad. Mar 31 11:38
oiaohm Nice we are staring to see MS drop departments they don’t think is important. Mar 31 11:43
oiaohm Question is how long until they get back to the important stuff. Mar 31 11:43
MinceR if he went back to linux, he certainly did see what a turd windows is Mar 31 11:51
MinceR the lifecycle of ensemble studios was sad Mar 31 11:51
MinceR they went well, then m$ bought them and then m$ killed them Mar 31 11:51
MinceR even though they didn’t even compete with m$. Mar 31 11:51
oiaohm Problem is I have seen the s cycle of getting sick of lInux going to windows with hope. Mar 31 11:52
oiaohm I did it once. Mar 31 11:52
oiaohm No way doing it twice. Mar 31 11:52
schestowitz What about Mac OS? Mar 31 11:54
schestowitz Say goodbye to Xen yet? http://boycottnovell.com/2009… Mar 31 11:54
MinceR macos isn’t even a contender :> Mar 31 11:55
MinceR (unless all you need is an appliance, not a computer) Mar 31 11:55
schestowitz And who on Earth would touch Mono after the TomTom case? http://boycottnovell.com/2009/03/3… Mar 31 11:55
oiaohm I told beranger at one point he would be would be happier off with a Mac. Mar 31 11:55
oiaohm I guess you have not been to recent Linux confs schestowitz. Mar 31 11:56
schestowitz In Romania, do they even have Apple shops? Mar 31 11:56
oiaohm Some days the apple laptops walking around there out number every other kind. Mar 31 11:56
schestowitz With bad hardware (and no choice of hardware), the last thing one needs are these running expenses Mar 31 11:56
MinceR schestowitz: there are lots of idiots who would, i’m afraid Mar 31 11:56
oiaohm Xen is not dead yet. Mar 31 11:56
MinceR xen could be forked if anyone cared Mar 31 11:56
oiaohm Everyone keeps on pointing to the wrong think to kill Xen. Mar 31 11:57
MinceR nenolod said he would if he had to :) Mar 31 11:57
oiaohm Its not kvm it is Lguest. Mar 31 11:57
oiaohm think/thing Mar 31 11:57
MinceR lguest? never heard of it Mar 31 11:57
*MinceR checks Mar 31 11:57
oiaohm It is in the main Linux kernel MinceR Mar 31 11:58
MinceR i don’t quite understand what it does Mar 31 11:58
MinceR how is it different from KVM? Mar 31 11:58
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oiaohm http://beta.linuxfoundation.org/… Mar 31 11:59
oiaohm Lguest does not need cpu support MinceR Mar 31 11:59
oiaohm Instead is exactly like Xen paravirtualisation mode. Mar 31 11:59
MinceR oh, so it runs xen-compatible paravirtualized guests? Mar 31 11:59
oiaohm kvm lguest and qemu use the same paravirtualization methods. Mar 31 12:00
oiaohm Xen is the odd ball out. Mar 31 12:00
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oiaohm lguest supporting kernels can also boot without being contained where xen ones cannot. Mar 31 12:01
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ToreadorVampire Oh hai Mar 31 12:02
MinceR ic Mar 31 12:02
MinceR hay ToreadorVampire :) Mar 31 12:02
ToreadorVampire So this is where you hang out MinceR :) Mar 31 12:02
MinceR this is one of the 51 channels i hang out in, yes :> Mar 31 12:02
ToreadorVampire Heh Mar 31 12:02
MinceR this lguest stuff looks interesting, i wonder when libvirt is going to start supporting it Mar 31 12:03
ToreadorVampire Yeah, but I didn’t have you on freenode yet :) Mar 31 12:03
schestowitz Hi, ToreadorVampire Mar 31 12:05
schestowitz oiaohm: Xen is messy Mar 31 12:05
schestowitz Not elegantly combined with Linux Mar 31 12:05
schestowitz thw whole dom0 debate Mar 31 12:05
ToreadorVampire Yo … mainly just poking my head in … semi-interested in the whole “mono patent trap” (since I’m a mono user), although not 100% sure how worried about it really need to be … Mar 31 12:07
oiaohm Lot of the Linux kernel developers think Xen should just come into alignment with the virtio drivers. Mar 31 12:08
oiaohm Mono is a patent trap.  The patent ensurance on it is only 5 years for patents that could last over 20. Mar 31 12:09
oiaohm first patent/protection. Mar 31 12:10
oiaohm Its not like following the .net path is required. Mar 31 12:10
ToreadorVampire Mmm, well – when it came to “new-school high-level oop language choice” I picked C# Mar 31 12:12
ToreadorVampire So mono looked really attractive to me Mar 31 12:12
schestowitz It’s a bad habit Mar 31 12:12
schestowitz Like getting attracted to smoking Mar 31 12:12
schestowitz The cost entails Mar 31 12:12
oiaohm Vala is also a great high level oop language. Mar 31 12:13
oiaohm With faster performance that .net can offer. Mar 31 12:13
ToreadorVampire Mmm, well – if the patent trap is scary enough, maybe I will look into moving to python … Mar 31 12:13
MinceR so is c++ :> Mar 31 12:13
oiaohm Vala runs running around mono really. Mar 31 12:13
oiaohm Darm I Have word drop. Mar 31 12:13
oiaohm Vala runs rings around  mono really. Mar 31 12:14
oiaohm http://www.parrot.org/languages  For a engine running languages .net is not even that powerful. Mar 31 12:14
oiaohm People refocus look whats around .net is not great. Mar 31 12:14
MinceR how’s LLVM going? Mar 31 12:16
oiaohm Still improving. Mar 31 12:17
oiaohm Really needs lot more language front ends. Mar 31 12:17
oiaohm Put a parrot front end in llvm would be interesting. Mar 31 12:17
MinceR :) Mar 31 12:19
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MinceR i wonder how much would CIL over LLVM and .net -> parrot avoid the patent trap Mar 31 12:22
oiaohm That is the thing everyone overlooks. Mar 31 12:22
oiaohm CIL is simpler to reverse and rebuilt the applications. Mar 31 12:23
oiaohm Its a case of developers being tricked into no more secrets. Mar 31 12:23
MinceR what does everyone overlook? the possibility of doing so, the fact that it’s still vulnerable or the fact that the patents are avoided this way? Mar 31 12:24
oiaohm Simple to avoid. Mar 31 12:24
oiaohm You can rebuild the applications in  patent free country. Mar 31 12:24
oiaohm C# and the languages using CIL really don’t have any new features. Mar 31 12:25
MinceR that still prevents you from selling them in the usa, doesn’t it? Mar 31 12:25
oiaohm Other than the back end engine. Mar 31 12:25
oiaohm Really no MinceR Mar 31 12:25
MinceR also, i don’t know how much the EU and Hungary is free of sw patents now Mar 31 12:25
oiaohm Cloning. Mar 31 12:25
oiaohm If you can document how an application works you can build a clone. Mar 31 12:26
oiaohm Compared to ASM CIL is a walk in the park to disasm. Mar 31 12:26
oiaohm Closed source guys are bacically going to wake up MS has backstab them. Mar 31 12:27
MinceR “lguest (pronounced rʌs.ti’vai.zər)” :D Mar 31 12:27
oiaohm Leaving them in a place open sourcing there code and not open sourcing there code make basically no difference to the protection they have. Mar 31 12:28
oiaohm .Net trap is way more than patents. Mar 31 12:28
oiaohm Teach students C# so students don’t have the skills to build a full OS independant to .net was MS idea. Mar 31 12:30
oiaohm Vala proves it possiable to build a C# releated language that builds to native code. Mar 31 12:31
oiaohm Sooner or latter MS will have rebelion form inside there .net users. Mar 31 12:31
benJIman c# can be built to native code too. See sharpos. Mar 31 12:32
benJIman Or singularity. Mar 31 12:33
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MinceR anything that doesn’t need its own OS? Mar 31 12:36
oiaohm sharpos and singularity both are depending on ahead of time building. Mar 31 12:38
oiaohm The problem with both is .net is really a limited struct OS. Mar 31 12:39
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oiaohm So neither sharpos or singularity are truly independant of it. Mar 31 12:39
benJIman Whta do you mean by “limited struct OS”? Mar 31 12:40
oiaohm Take C for example.  It design can scale to any bit width processor. Mar 31 12:40
DaemonFC What sucks is that most any distribution ships with Mono Mar 31 12:40
oiaohm .net not so much. Mar 31 12:40
DaemonFC so you usually have to remove it by hand Mar 31 12:40
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oiaohm You have to remember 16 bit wide processors are still used in some places. Mar 31 12:41
oiaohm C advantage for OS coding is it freedoms to be altered to match the platform you are using.   Even droping the ideas of any common functions and exception handling if that is more suitable. Mar 31 12:45
DaemonFC http://www.foxbusiness.com/story/… Mar 31 12:46
DaemonFC Fixed News apparently loves Mono Mar 31 12:46
schestowitz Fixed :-) Mar 31 12:47
schestowitz Gotta keep people’s control of computers out of this public arena… Mar 31 12:47
schestowitz Get them addicted to Monio Mar 31 12:47
schestowitz Then pass them to .NET Mar 31 12:47
DaemonFC if Fox News tells you the sky is blue, you better damned well go out and make sure Mar 31 12:48
schestowitz Envelope the resistors. Mar 31 12:48
DaemonFC B-) Mar 31 12:48
DaemonFC They’re the Pravda of the Republican Party Mar 31 12:48
DaemonFC masquerading as a news network Mar 31 12:48
schestowitz It’s called News Corp Mar 31 12:48
schestowitz News does not mean “truth” Mar 31 12:48
schestowitz It means new something Mar 31 12:49
schestowitz Like NEW talking point Mar 31 12:49
schestowitz Or NEW pr[opaganda] Mar 31 12:49
DaemonFC Pravda was the name of the Soviet state news agency Mar 31 12:49
DaemonFC :) Mar 31 12:49
schestowitz FOX NEWS =  new from FOX Mar 31 12:49
schestowitz FOX NEWS =  new from Murdoch Mar 31 12:49
DaemonFC what’s hilarious is that the same company that runs crap kissing the ass of the Republicans also runs things like Family Guy on their other stations Mar 31 12:50
schestowitz Anorher university has just sold out: http://www.upiasia.com/Society_Cu… Mar 31 12:50
DaemonFC nothing like selling to both sides Mar 31 12:50
schestowitz zer0c00l: see this one Mar 31 12:50
DaemonFC that’s nothing I’m sure Mar 31 12:50
zer0c00l yes Mar 31 12:50
DaemonFC Microsoft sells Windows and Office for $5 Mar 31 12:51
zer0c00l schestowitz, which one Mar 31 12:51
DaemonFC in the university stores in Indiana Mar 31 12:51
zer0c00l ok Mar 31 12:51
zer0c00l http://www.upiasia.com/Society_Cul… Mar 31 12:51
zer0c00l schestowitz, looking Mar 31 12:51
DaemonFC I bought a copy of Windows and Office in the student store Mar 31 12:51
DaemonFC and ebayed them Mar 31 12:52
zer0c00l lol Mar 31 12:52
DaemonFC Microsoft bought me a few credit hours B-) Mar 31 12:52
zer0c00l DaemonFC: you mean those keys are software? Mar 31 12:52
DaemonFC they sell you the disc + serial Mar 31 12:53
DaemonFC it says Student Edition on it Mar 31 12:53
DaemonFC but it was really Windows XP Pro Mar 31 12:53
zer0c00l here they give keys for free Mar 31 12:53
zer0c00l disk we have to download Mar 31 12:53
DaemonFC bah Mar 31 12:53
zer0c00l but with ELMS there is no need for download :( Mar 31 12:53
oiaohm The disk is 5 dollars. Mar 31 12:53
DaemonFC someone asked me to try Windows 7 Mar 31 12:53
oiaohm Licence is nothing. Mar 31 12:54
DaemonFC I told them I didn’t think it was worth a blank DVD Mar 31 12:54
oiaohm MS is really trying to hold on. Mar 31 12:54
oiaohm As makers of machines start demarding same kinds of deals MS profit streams are at risk. Mar 31 12:54
schestowitz Microsoft is just duming Mar 31 12:54
schestowitz Where is the business model? Mar 31 12:55
schestowitz They have none, I think Mar 31 12:55
DaemonFC well, Linux set the price point of the netbook Mar 31 12:55
schestowitz They admit to investors that it’s killing them.. sub-notebooks in particular Mar 31 12:55
oiaohm Idea is kill Linux. Mar 31 12:55
DaemonFC and Microsoft must give Windows for free Mar 31 12:55
oiaohm Then bring profit up. Mar 31 12:55
schestowitz Windows revenue fell sharply. Mar 31 12:55
DaemonFC to even have a presence there Mar 31 12:55
DaemonFC the netbook will bleed Microsoft Mar 31 12:55
oiaohm Death of Linux is not going to happen. Mar 31 12:55
DaemonFC and lead them into an unprofitable war of attrition Mar 31 12:55
schestowitz oiaohm: they can’t kill Linux Mar 31 12:55
schestowitz Watch PCLinuxOS 2009.1 Mar 31 12:55
oiaohm Uni’s are not longer the power house of Linux. Mar 31 12:55
schestowitz Linux is ahead Mar 31 12:56
schestowitz Microsoft knows this Mar 31 12:56
zer0c00l but microsoft cannot give windows for free of cost all the time Mar 31 12:56
schestowitz Staff exodus is telling Mar 31 12:56
zer0c00l because it will affect their business a lot Mar 31 12:56
zer0c00l :P Mar 31 12:56
oiaohm They need trained suckers. Mar 31 12:56
schestowitz It already does, so not “will” Mar 31 12:56
oiaohm Ie students. Mar 31 12:56
schestowitz They go into debty Mar 31 12:56
schestowitz *debt Mar 31 12:56
DaemonFC zer0c00l: That’s what I mean, if they give it away free on millions of netbooks, and the netbooks are causing sales of normal laptops to decline Mar 31 12:56
oiaohm So when boss asks them what software does X they answer Microsoft. Mar 31 12:56
DaemonFC :) Mar 31 12:57
schestowitz oiaohm: not bound to always work Mar 31 12:57
schestowitz They try to suffocate compettors Mar 31 12:57
DaemonFC then they could lose 10-15% of their Windows income Mar 31 12:57
schestowitz But GNU/Linux is not a company Mar 31 12:57
*kentma has quit (Remote closed the connection) Mar 31 12:57
DaemonFC just because they can’t sell Windows on netbooks Mar 31 12:57
schestowitz oiaohm: you give them to much credit Mar 31 12:57
schestowitz As though they are winning Mar 31 12:57
schestowitz It’s very much the opposite Mar 31 12:57
schestowitz Had they not dumped Windows, Linux would still dominate sub-notebooks Mar 31 12:57
oiaohm There dumping is based on the old ideas that use to work. Mar 31 12:57
DaemonFC which means they have to charge more for their other products Mar 31 12:57
DaemonFC which turns mroe customers off Mar 31 12:58
schestowitz That would ignite a chain reaction Mar 31 12:58
schestowitz End game. Mar 31 12:58
schestowitz oiaohm: yes, like vs Netscape Mar 31 12:58
schestowitz Or Borland Mar 31 12:58
schestowitz But these were COMPANIES Mar 31 12:58
DaemonFC so Ubuntu *must* kill them with Netbook Remix Mar 31 12:58
oiaohm Dump hard into education and other markets sell in business. Mar 31 12:58
oiaohm Problem is business is starting to grow a free mind. Mar 31 12:58
DaemonFC Microsoft has to dump Windows+Office on students Mar 31 12:58
oiaohm Yep. Mar 31 12:59
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