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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: October 28th, 2008 - Part 2

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schestowitzMore Microsoft cronyism... Jesper Lund Stocholm ... http://www.adjb.net/post/More-Stand...Oct 28 19:44
twitterMarkets are up for some reason and so is M$ but they lag the broader markets, a whole percentage point behind Dow average.Oct 28 19:50
twitterup 8.7% wacky.Oct 28 19:50
twitterNovell up 13.6%, insane.  http://finance.google.com/finance?q=NASDAQ:NOVLOct 28 19:51
schestowitz'Freedom' of Sp33ch...Home Office acts to kick out Iceland's hate preachers < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/10... >Oct 28 19:51
twitterNovell's up is on light trading.Oct 28 19:52
schestowitzIt'll probably fall later. It's based on no particular rejuvenation, isn't it?Oct 28 19:53
twitterless than 500,000 shares.  Bill Gates wipes with less than that each morning.Oct 28 19:53
schestowitzTell that to Iceland.. or Austria whose market fell like 60%.Oct 28 19:53
schestowitzUp 15% now (NOVL), but it sank yesterday.Oct 28 19:54
twitterYeah, I know a couple of people in Iceland.  They are in for some rough IMF times.Oct 28 19:54
schestowitzIT credit crunch comes home to roost < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/1... >Oct 28 19:55
twitterStill, $2.5 million is trivial money to people like Bill Gates and people with hundreds of millions to buy back stock and paint pictures.Oct 28 19:55
schestowitzSad thing is, some people perceive all this as being anarchic, but it's not quite so; some people look away and don't want to understand a new reality.Oct 28 19:55
schestowitzThis is merely the dawn of big changes to people's lifestyle. It's not a pass fad. This can last for over a decade and become the new status quo. And it's all due to greed and further divide between rich and poor (the rich hardly mind... they just lose luxury money in Wall Street and the poor people pay to keep corrupt banks alive)Oct 28 19:57
twitter" Since August 2005, 230 people have been excluded from entering the UK on suspicion of being a threat to national security or fostering extremism, including 79 preachers of hate." http://press.homeoffice.gov.uk/press-r...Oct 28 20:00
twitter"create a presumption in favour of exclusion in respect of all those who have engaged in fostering, encouraging or spreading extremism and hatred" blacklists.Oct 28 20:01
schestowitz"Just weeks after the UK government used the 2001 Anti-terrorism, Crime and Security Act to seize all of the IOUs in British branches of Icelandic banks, tough-talking Home Secretary Jacqui Smith has made it clear that Britain will no longer be a safe haven for terror preachers from Iceland. Or indeed from Norway or Liechtenstein."Oct 28 20:01
schestowitzLook how they expand the laws of "terrorism" to things like "protest"Oct 28 20:02
twitter"preacher of hate" can mean anything.  Thoughtcrime.Oct 28 20:02
schestowitzThe UK ruined Iceland (allegedly) and if they dare to protest, they are labeled terrorists. AMAZING! (although I don't know the finer details)Oct 28 20:02
schestowitzThere's some regular commenter in BN, "Josh Bell", who seems to know Novell a little too intimately. He doesn't seem to work for them, though.Oct 28 20:04
schestowitzOnce again this "Yardena Arar" figure (never seen before) is tossing a Windows ad/article into IDG: http://www.pcworld.com/article/152895... This is suspicious. Smells like a placement...Oct 28 20:10
twitterI'm thick.  Don't see what MJF sees as a "credit crunch"Oct 28 20:10
schestowitzOr "recession"Oct 28 20:11
schestowitzThey never use the D word.Oct 28 20:11
MinceRDoom!Oct 28 20:11
schestowitzSlowdown... Oct 28 20:11
schestowitzDeflation... no...Oct 28 20:12
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twitterI understand the bit about people not buying, just don't understand the IBM focus.Oct 28 20:12
twitterand I don't see anything weird about the IBM numbers.Oct 28 20:12
schestowitzCredit crunch *LOL* Here is the Uk they consider zeroing the interest rates while raising price of everything. So you are taxed in the sense that you lose money without doing anything. Savings too might erode.Oct 28 20:13
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schestowitzIBM has heavy buybacks going, just like MSFT, NOVL, and RHTOct 28 20:13
schestowitzORCL tooOct 28 20:13
schestowitzMicrosoft: "look at out stock. We're not falling (but don't look at our bank account and pending loans)"Oct 28 20:14
twitterfiat currency is a tax, ask 1960's Greenspan.Oct 28 20:15
schestowitzStock market = legal casino. Too many rules can be (and are) bent. I've never realise what sense the loopholes made. Buybcks, buying short, pump and dump using SPAM, etc.Oct 28 20:15
schestowitzIt's all exploding now.Oct 28 20:16
schestowitz*selling shortOct 28 20:16
schestowitzHey Politicians! Stop wasting my money < http://www.itwire.com/content/... >Oct 28 20:19
twitterGood grief, Slashdot has rolled out the M$ Red Carpet today.Oct 28 20:25
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schestowitzGet your free copy of CrossOver (available only TODAY): http://down.codeweavers.com/Oct 28 20:25
schestowitzThe site is down because loads of people grab a copy.Oct 28 20:25
MinceR:)Oct 28 20:25
*MinceR grabbed his alreadyOct 28 20:25
schestowitztwitter: why wouldn't Slashdot. Lots of new products from its sponsor, Microsoft (PDC).Oct 28 20:26
twitterThey have advertised, favorably, three chunks of vaporware.  http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/10... http://tech.slashdot.org/article... http://it.slashdot.org/articl...Oct 28 20:27
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schestowitz*LOL* http://beranger.org/index.php?page=... (also a funny remark at the end)Oct 28 20:27
schestowitztwitter: I don't want to see.Oct 28 20:28
trmancojust updated my kernelOct 28 20:28
trmancoflawlesslyOct 28 20:28
schestowitzI found Slashdot too /ANNOYING/. to read, so I dropped it. Why get upset when there are better things to read? :-)Oct 28 20:28
MinceRwhat's your replacement for /.?Oct 28 20:28
PetoKraustrmanco: same hereOct 28 20:29
trmanco:-)Oct 28 20:29
PetoKrausgot rid of that CFQ schedulerOct 28 20:29
trmancoPetoKraus, what distro?Oct 28 20:29
PetoKrausand maybe it's placebo, but it works betterOct 28 20:29
PetoKrausgentooOct 28 20:29
trmancocoolOct 28 20:29
MinceRi've updated mine yesterdayOct 28 20:29
PetoKrausyou know --omg-optimize and --funroll-funloops are amazing compilation flags, yielding you those o.0004% of overall snappineess i needOct 28 20:30
MinceRthough i've only compiled the patched kernel module for my usb link cable todayOct 28 20:30
PetoKraus:POct 28 20:30
MinceRdon't forget --vomit-frame-counterOct 28 20:30
PetoKraus:) actually, that's the one i actually useOct 28 20:30
PetoKrausdid i actually say two times actually?Oct 28 20:30
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schestowitzWhy does  Henry Kingman keep sucking up to XAML and .NET?  http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/...Oct 28 20:33
schestowitzHe did the interview with Novell&MiguelOct 28 20:34
trmancohttp://mail.fsfeurope.org/piperm...Oct 28 20:34
trmanco"Finally I did it.Oct 28 20:34
trmancoI decided to point to an higher goal asking Dell to produce a freeOct 28 20:34
trmancosoftware laptop.Oct 28 20:34
trmanco"Oct 28 20:34
MinceRwell, he can askOct 28 20:35
schestowitzMaybe there's a chance, but hardware is a challenge.Oct 28 20:35
schestowitzLAC Now Shipping gNewSense 2.0 Systems (1 May 2008) : http://laclinux.com/gnu/News#20080501.1Oct 28 20:36
_DougSCO intercompany payables == 1,178,377Oct 28 20:36
_Doughttp://www.groklaw.net/article...Oct 28 20:36
schestowitzMicrosoft pushed for this:  http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2008...Oct 28 20:37
trmancohttp://www.xfce.org/documentation/changelogs/4.4.3Oct 28 20:38
twitterIf Dell cant's move hardware makers to software freedom, who can?Oct 28 20:38
MinceRsystem76?Oct 28 20:38
schestowitzGood post from GLOct 28 20:39
twitterAs the $100 GNU/Linux laptops roll out of China, Dell will play ball or go under.Oct 28 20:39
MinceReither option would be acceptableOct 28 20:40
schestowitztrmanco: XFce is a maintenance release in this case.Oct 28 20:41
trmancoyesOct 28 20:41
trmancobut it is a sort of *new* releaseOct 28 20:42
schestowitzVista 7 will sink some more shops.Oct 28 20:42
trmancoalways worth mentioning :-)Oct 28 20:42
twitterWhat, channel stuffing again?Oct 28 20:42
twitterWhat's funny about the GL story is how little money SCO has left.  It's like watching people in the dorms looking under sofas for laundry money.Oct 28 20:44
schestowitzow it's confirmed. Linux on all Lenovo laptops? http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=new...Oct 28 20:44
twittercoolOct 28 20:44
schestowitzMicrosoft is trying to match this only with promises.. or fast boot. it said that Vista successor would have this... lied, as usuaOct 28 20:44
schestowitzDell already uses SplashTop.Oct 28 20:44
twitterif they would only fix the keyboards by getting rid of those obnoxious windows keysOct 28 20:45
schestowitzSeveral months ago Phoronix suggested, based on rumours, that H-P goes down this route as wellOct 28 20:45
MinceRdell also pays the patent racket, don't they?Oct 28 20:45
schestowitzYes.Oct 28 20:45
twitterIt's the usual slog.  When the competition is obviously better, talk about they next version.Oct 28 20:45
MinceRso it isn't really such a good example -- or a forerunner of free software-based computers.Oct 28 20:45
schestowitztwitter: SUPER key? They just need to change the logo to something genericOct 28 20:45
schestowitzThe context menu key is OK because it's no vendor logo/sign.Oct 28 20:46
twitterI hate those keys. too many keys on the bottom row makes it easier to miss the one you are looking for.Oct 28 20:46
MinceRi like themOct 28 20:46
MinceRthe super key is useful for global hotkeysOct 28 20:46
MinceRno app expects to be able to use itOct 28 20:47
schestowitzMy keyboard has multimedia keys. Mandriva picked them out... out of the box. special s/w needs to be installed to enable this in WIndows (not that I tried).Oct 28 20:47
twitterI use ctrl and alt keys a lot, missing them would drive me nutsOct 28 20:47
MinceRmy keyboard has multimedia keys but my kvm switch drops them :/Oct 28 20:47
schestowitzThe name "super" is bad. These keys should be named something like "shame". Calling Window SUPER won't help..Oct 28 20:48
schestowitz*WindowsOct 28 20:48
MinceRlolOct 28 20:48
MinceRafaik it's from the pre-windows times actuallyOct 28 20:48
MinceRlike metaOct 28 20:48
schestowitzYes.Oct 28 20:48
MinceRso it isn't really a comment on windowsOct 28 20:49
twitterI'm super, thanks for asking, all things considered, I must say ... I love that movie.Oct 28 20:49
twitterThe menu keys and windows keys get in the way.Oct 28 20:49
MinceRthe south park movie?Oct 28 20:49
twitteryesOct 28 20:50
twitterit was funnyOct 28 20:50
MinceRi love it tooOct 28 20:50
schestowitzhttp://podcasts.linux-foundation.org/...Oct 28 20:51
twitterI'm going outside.  Keep an eye on the soft and novell.Oct 28 20:51
schestowitz180MBOct 28 20:51
schestowitzLF and Ogg. I was like, you know, WTF? LF and Ogg?Oct 28 20:51
*MinceR keeps an eye on the big soft, its current right hand and the little soft.Oct 28 20:52
MinceR(well, perhaps "right hand" isn't correct -- not many people cut theirs off regularly...)Oct 28 20:52
joselaterOct 28 20:53
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MinceRs/soft/'soft/gOct 28 20:53
_Doug'Latitude ON uses "a dedicated low-voltage sub-processor and OS that can enable multi-day battery life" for the Windows Vista notebooks'Oct 28 21:03
_Doughttp://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS2560585344.htmlOct 28 21:03
MinceRARM?Oct 28 21:03
MinceR(and linux, i presume)Oct 28 21:03
_Dougwhy not dispense with Vista, altogether ..Oct 28 21:04
_Doug"Dell will equip a new crop of enterprise notebooks with little embedded Linux systems"Oct 28 21:04
schestowitzOne step at a time.Oct 28 21:04
_DougLinux helps quick start Vista ..Oct 28 21:05
_Dougcorect headline ?Oct 28 21:05
schestowitzNo.Oct 28 21:07
schestowitzLinux starts quickly while slow Vista loads 700MB of garbage onto RAM.Oct 28 21:08
_Doughttp://www.geek.com/articles/news/microsof...Oct 28 21:09
_Doug'We would like your feedback on a new concept .. Fast computer boots aren’t a new concept and some systems are already in development or exist. Examples include SplashTop, Phoenix HyperSpace, and Dell’s Latitude ON'Oct 28 21:09
schestowitzLatitude ON= MontaVista thing.Oct 28 21:11
schestowitzPhoenix reported Microsoft (antitrust) for trying to use the EULA pretty much illegally. Microsoft still plays like a 800lb gorilla... but it's impotent.Oct 28 21:11
_Dougwhat about recovering from hybernate ?Oct 28 21:11
schestowitzI thought about that too. I don't knowOct 28 21:13
_DougLinux boots in 0.69 seconds ..Oct 28 21:13
_Doughttp://linuxdevices.com/news/...Oct 28 21:13
_Doug'the initialization process is then completed in the background in under two seconds.'Oct 28 21:14
schestowitzMaureen O'Gara is attacking the Linux Foundation, sort of.Oct 28 21:15
schestowitzI alerted about this... it's like the OSDL thing.Oct 28 21:15
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schestowitzEmbrace and extend... http://www.linux-magazine.com/online/new... (  Microsoft Works on PHP and Open Source  )Oct 28 21:28
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PetoKrausMinceR: who knows.Oct 28 21:41
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MinceRapparently not even sourceforge, inc. cares about web standards anymoreOct 28 21:41
MinceRhm, maybe schestowitz knowsOct 28 21:41
MinceR224446 < MinceR> is there a browser where /.'s tagging system actually works?Oct 28 21:41
MinceR224454 < MinceR> including the supposed menuOct 28 21:41
MinceR(damn netsplits)Oct 28 21:41
schestowitzDidn't anyone else get cut off from FreeNode?Oct 28 21:42
PetoKrausyou only. wrong time, wrong serverOct 28 21:42
PetoKrausyou should see #gentooOct 28 21:42
PetoKrausat about 300 discsOct 28 21:42
schestowitz:-)Oct 28 21:42
MinceR/.'s tag autocompletion should also die in hellOct 28 21:42
PetoKraus/. should also die in hellOct 28 21:42
schestowitzMinceR: SF adopted Drupal.Oct 28 21:42
PetoKrausthere, fixed.Oct 28 21:42
MinceReven if i type the word fully it just goes its own way and inserts something it wants insteadOct 28 21:42
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schestowitzI found out earlier today.Oct 28 21:42
MinceRPetoKraus: replacement?Oct 28 21:42
schestowitzAt least for blog anyway.Oct 28 21:43
schestowitz*blogsOct 28 21:43
MinceRkuro5hin isn't funny enoughOct 28 21:43
MinceRdigg is full of apple fagboysOct 28 21:43
PetoKrausMinceR: yeah. though i only read the summaries mostlyOct 28 21:43
MinceRthe /. hater sites are devoid of contentOct 28 21:43
PetoKrausthanks to lifereaOct 28 21:43
schestowitzJust in case: Oct 28 21:43
schestowitz<schestowitz> Maureen O'Gara is attacking the Linux Foundation, sort of.Oct 28 21:43
schestowitz<schestowitz> I alerted about this... it's like the OSDL thing.Oct 28 21:43
schestowitz* _Doug has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.83 [Firefox 3.0.3/2008092417]")Oct 28 21:43
schestowitz<schestowitz> Embrace and extend... http://www.linux-magazine.com/onl... (  Microsoft Works on PHP and Open Source  )Oct 28 21:43
MinceRphp is crap enough without m$ meddling with itOct 28 21:43
schestowitzGroklaw News Picks are good.Oct 28 21:44
schestowitzBetter than /. It has some dull legal stuff though.Oct 28 21:44
MinceRgroklaw only covers a limited amount of topics thoughOct 28 21:44
_Doug'Intellectual Ventures: A massive patent pyramid scheme?'Oct 28 21:44
_Doughttp://news.cnet.com/8301-1350...Oct 28 21:44
schestowitzYes, I've sent proposals since 2006. It's still a good signal/noise ratio...Oct 28 21:45
schestowitz_Doug: old one, IIRCOct 28 21:45
schestowitz(without looking)Oct 28 21:45
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josejust popped in for this http://tech.yahoo.com/news/ap/20081028/...Oct 28 21:48
schestowitz_Doug: let me find something.Oct 28 21:48
schestowitzGoogle has a new option for deep linking.Oct 28 21:48
schestowitzjose: yes, big news. Blech.Oct 28 21:48
_Doug'Date set for internet 'obscene' publications trial .. Track this topic   Print story Man in court over 'Girls Aloud' story'Oct 28 21:49
_Doughttp://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/10/...Oct 28 21:49
schestowitzhttp://www.ip-watch.org/weblog/index... "The calibration effort goes beyond what TRIPS was thought to be about - namely, standardising IP, Gervais said. Developing nations now say they want national policies to close the gap between IP law and innovation. The challenge is not to implement TRIPS mechanically in order to stay out of trouble but as part of a national innovation strategy."Oct 28 21:50
_Doug'innovation strategy' typing up piles of legalize and then waiting for someone to actually build the thing ..Oct 28 21:52
*Received a CTCP VERSION from freenode-connectOct 28 21:52
schestowitzNathan Myhrvold goes mad: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=9G8gQ5uh6jY#t=2m15sOct 28 21:53
_Dougof course none of this 'innovation strategy' is designed to encourage innovation, is designed to create lock-in by the incumbents ..Oct 28 21:57
schestowitzYes, but they beatify it to themselves (the trolls)Oct 28 21:58
_Doug'invest in invention'Oct 28 21:58
_Dougwhere do the ideas come from ?Oct 28 21:58
schestowitzBill Gates is also a troll at heart... his and Nathan are both into this thing.Oct 28 21:58
schestowitzIdeas are an aggregation of other people's ideas.Oct 28 21:58
schestowitzYou take things you learn, put them in series and expand upon them.Oct 28 21:59
schestowitz"Standing on the shoulders of giants"Oct 28 21:59
_Doug'pre seed pre-venture capitol'Oct 28 21:59
_Doug'we file 400 patents a year'Oct 28 22:00
PetoKraushttp://teddziuba.com/2008/09/a-...Oct 28 22:00
_Doughow is filing patents innovative ?Oct 28 22:00
PetoKrausin INNOVA~1 sense of the word.Oct 28 22:00
schestowitz_Doug: it's a known problem.Oct 28 22:01
schestowitzIf the system sobers up a bit (it's still in a freefall), then trolling will get worse and people will demand change.Oct 28 22:02
_Doug'advice for entrepunuers'Oct 28 22:02
_Doug'if you really knew all the things then you know now it would be tough to do go do it..'Oct 28 22:04
_Dougtranslation: if IV was around at the beginning of the PC revolution, it would have been killed at birth ..Oct 28 22:04
_Dougit = the WinTELL.IBM PCOct 28 22:05
_Dougcause the truely realize that real competition would leave then dead in the water ..Oct 28 22:05
schestowitzYes.Oct 28 22:05
schestowitzBut Microsoft only wanted patents when it needed walls.Oct 28 22:06
schestowitzNot when it needed to break them down (IBM et al)Oct 28 22:06
schestowitzRemember that memo from 2991Oct 28 22:06
schestowitz*1191Oct 28 22:06
schestowitzBlech. 1991Oct 28 22:06
_Dougexactly, patents are to protect the iuncumbents from competitionOct 28 22:06
schestowitzThat's what a patent is.Oct 28 22:06
_DougincumbentsOct 28 22:06
schestowitzCopyrights are to protect a producer in other ways.Oct 28 22:06
schestowitzPatents are insane because they pertain to knowledge or thought.Oct 28 22:07
_Douginnovation and patents don't go in the same sentence.Oct 28 22:07
schestowitzTo infringe copyrights you must MEMORISE things.Oct 28 22:07
_Dougin fact there is no motivation to 'invent' anything until your patent runs out.Oct 28 22:07
schestowitzI can recognise a face, but that does not mean I can render it with pen and paper based on memory.Oct 28 22:07
schestowitzDo you have MYHRVOL~1's E-mail?Oct 28 22:08
_Doughaa ..Oct 28 22:08
schestowitzOpen letter: "sod off, let developers work"Oct 28 22:08
schestowitzDoes he even program?Oct 28 22:08
schestowitzI don't think he develops anything.Oct 28 22:08
schestowitzMath/physics chap, IIRC.Oct 28 22:08
schestowitzTheir job in the theoretical side is a pen&paper thing, toexaggerate a bitOct 28 22:09
_Dougin fact if the current patent regime was in place a decade ago .. none of the current 'innovators' would be in business ..Oct 28 22:09
schestowitzIt's natural for some such people never to consider implementors.Oct 28 22:09
schestowitzSome say we need deregulationOct 28 22:09
schestowitzOther say we need to decommission competition, using patents.Oct 28 22:10
_Douggtg ..Oct 28 22:10
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josesee what you did?Oct 28 22:11
josei too have puked all over the keyboard and will leave soonOct 28 22:11
joseseeing ballmer sweat is preferable to seeing that other guy sell poison so smoothlyOct 28 22:11
schestowitzMe? :-)Oct 28 22:11
schestowitzMyhrvold?Oct 28 22:11
schestowitzMr.void?Oct 28 22:12
josegiant slayerOct 28 22:12
josemr. void.. i like thatOct 28 22:12
schestowitzNothing to sellOct 28 22:12
schestowitzJust imaginary property and threatsOct 28 22:12
josestand on shoulders of giants and then squash themOct 28 22:12
schestowitzHe actually threatened Cisco and Verizon, IIRC, for hundreds of millions in ransomOct 28 22:12
josewhatever happened to good old competitionOct 28 22:13
schestowitzjose: Ask Bill and SteveBOct 28 22:13
josefoss has to win over minds and hearts.. to attack patents.Oct 28 22:13
schestowitzBallmer insists he doesn't know what monopoly means/Oct 28 22:13
schestowitzBut he calls Google a monopolyOct 28 22:13
schestowitzjose: not many FOSS sites cover swpatents.Oct 28 22:13
schestowitzThat's where BN is quite unique. There's a lot going on in terms of laws being ignored/changed to harm FOSS>Oct 28 22:14
josei'm going to go soonOct 28 22:14
schestowitzWell, I can't stop you. :-)Oct 28 22:14
joseyou tempt, but i have to hold my groundOct 28 22:14
schestowitzAlex Hudson enter idle modeOct 28 22:15
schestowitzSo you needn't confront him in the comments.Oct 28 22:15
schestowitz*enteredOct 28 22:15
josethat wasn't funOct 28 22:15
schestowitzNo, very cyclicOct 28 22:15
schestowitzBut you made excellent point.Oct 28 22:15
schestowitzBut you made excellent pointsOct 28 22:15
schestowitzMost readers never comment.Oct 28 22:16
schestowitz1 comment per 1000 pageviews, or something like that..Oct 28 22:16
josethis patent business makes me pukeOct 28 22:16
schestowitzYesOct 28 22:17
schestowitzWho let this monster in???Oct 28 22:17
joseit's so unjust.. the positive today is that swpats aren't enforced against foss reallyOct 28 22:17
schestowitzYou think that making better software means winning, no?Oct 28 22:17
schestowitzThen comes Microsoft, trying to use bundling to beat a much better VMware (like Netscape).Oct 28 22:17
josebut it creates issues and tensions and obstacles to businessOct 28 22:17
schestowitzSame with Real Networks, but that's older news.Oct 28 22:17
schestowitzAnd now there's this 'patent cloud' hanging since May 2007. Microsoft inssists that Red Hat customer owe them money.Oct 28 22:18
schestowitzNice, eh?Oct 28 22:18
schestowitzBuy Red Hat, be afraid. SCO 2.0.Oct 28 22:18
schestowitzjose: they are actually enforced. See Firestar and NetApp (versus ZFS)Oct 28 22:19
schestowitzAlso AcaciaOct 28 22:19
joseyes, a bit..Oct 28 22:19
josein fact, i meant that the free stuff is still downloadable but that's not good enoughOct 28 22:19
joseand work is under way always to stop that free stuffOct 28 22:19
schestowitzSame with music.Oct 28 22:20
schestowitzThere are many parallel to be drawn and lessons to be learned.Oct 28 22:20
josebusiness is really important. controlling the money stream (even while the "hobbyists" play) is what ms is afterOct 28 22:20
schestowitzRMS and Lessig have a lot in common and they actually reciprocally congratulate one another. Though the FSF has some beef with CC...Oct 28 22:21
schestowitzYes, let me get a new refOct 28 22:21
schestowitzhttp://www.linux-magazine.com/online/news/m...Oct 28 22:21
schestowitzI could add to this some new videos from YouTube. Some EU-based Microsoft guy on stealing the FOSS show, putting in on Windows.Oct 28 22:21
schestowitzMicrosoft can spend $$ to woo developers and have them concede their values.... Windows Server....... open.... open to access...... open developers-'friendly'... just.. open!Oct 28 22:22
schestowitzThere's a whole 'magic' show with cartoons and 'heroes'... http://www.microsoft.com/opensou...Oct 28 22:23
josei hope the foss community sees what is going on.. some do some don'tOct 28 22:23
schestowitzAny type of marketing BS to ruin the foundation of FOSS (Free platform) and shove in some 'rat holes'Oct 28 22:24
schestowitzI showed the 452 Group those 'rat holes' memos. The response was interesting.Oct 28 22:24
joseroy, let me go. i need to finish something asap (today, this week, ..??), and then i want to get moving on some foss projectsOct 28 22:24
schestowitzOKOct 28 22:25
josei'll listen a bit, but i'm trying to keep quietOct 28 22:25
josewhat was the response?Oct 28 22:25
josesorry, but i got curiousOct 28 22:25
joseok, never mind.. i'll eventually find outOct 28 22:26
*GoblinRFD (n=tim@78-86-75-104.zone2.bethere.co.uk) has joined #boycottnovellOct 28 22:26
*jose has quit ("Leaving")Oct 28 22:27
GoblinRFDHello all.Oct 28 22:28
schestowitzHey, GoblinRFD Oct 28 22:28
GoblinRFDGreat series of articles over the last few days!Oct 28 22:28
schestowitzThanks. I didn't realise it.Oct 28 22:29
schestowitzThe site get enough attention for posts to be worthwhile, so...Oct 28 22:29
schestowitz*getsOct 28 22:29
GoblinRFDI think you need to make a montage of Steve Ballmer, hes quite a........something..Oct 28 22:29
GoblinRFDmy personal favourite: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=wvsboPUjrGcOct 28 22:30
schestowitzThere are some montages out there.Oct 28 22:31
schestowitzWe've aired a few, but I need to make oggs.Oct 28 22:31
*trmanco has quit ("I just hit the close button :)")Oct 28 22:32
schestowitzhttp://boycottnovell.com...Oct 28 22:32
GoblinRFDIn your opinion, do you think the EU (and anti-monopoly commission) will stand for these patient actions, in and when MS invokes them?Oct 28 22:32
schestowitzHe tries to disguise his craziness by joking about it.Oct 28 22:33
*jose (n=jose@adsl-233-170-93.mia.bellsouth.net) has joined #boycottnovellOct 28 22:33
schestowitzLast week in Brazil he did the DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS thing again.Oct 28 22:33
schestowitzAnd about 6 months ago in Mix 2008 (IIRC) he did WEB DEVELOPERS WEB DEVELOPERS Web DEVELOPERS...Oct 28 22:33
josegenerally.. we have to get as many people to appreciate the things we appreciate.Oct 28 22:34
schestowitzAll intended to make it 'feel' like monkey dance and all was just humour and intended.Oct 28 22:34
josenumbers make thins easier on everyoneOct 28 22:34
schestowitzThe Brazilian TV aired the monkey dance videos, which was funny.Oct 28 22:34
joseto appreciate, you sort of have to walk in shoesOct 28 22:34
GoblinRFDI personally dont think they have a hope in hell of bringing their patient threats to bear in the UK.... BTW that clip you gave is classic!Oct 28 22:35
schestowitzjose: instill morale in devs' minds.Oct 28 22:35
schestowitzMicrosoft does a lot to demoralise with lies.Oct 28 22:35
MinceRthose devs have minds?Oct 28 22:35
josei assume people are lazyOct 28 22:35
schestowitzLike "Linux is at less than 1%"Oct 28 22:35
schestowitzNot trueOct 28 22:35
schestowitzballmer said Linux had 60% in servers (Microsoft has intelligence to do that)Oct 28 22:35
joseyes, the free thing will happen naturally if they see real value in itOct 28 22:35
joseto see value you have to experienceOct 28 22:35
GoblinRFDagreed.Oct 28 22:36
schestowitzIDC says 13%, but it's using Microsoft's def (whitebox preinstalls). it's all just intended to deceive and be repeated (Big Lie).Oct 28 22:36
schestowitzSome develoepers get wiser than that.Oct 28 22:36
josewe need a better framework and tools to cater to jack/jill userOct 28 22:36
schestowitzThey port applications to GNU/Linux because they see for themselves the demand for it.Oct 28 22:36
josewe need to work consciously to reach out to users with skill X and Y and ZOct 28 22:36
josewhere these aren't "sw development"Oct 28 22:37
schestowitzNetbooks... Gold Microsoft Partner says 4 times more are returned if running GNU/Linux... false... ASUS debunks it.Oct 28 22:37
schestowitzGermany press says 40% of them run LinuxOct 28 22:37
*dsmith_ (n=dsmith@c-76-114-142-224.hsd1.md.comcast.net) has joined #boycottnovellOct 28 22:38
GoblinRFDYeah, I read that.  I still cant believe in this day and age people think MS has any insight in the future whatsoever.  Let us not forget their insistance on backing the HDdvd format over blueray.  We all know how that turned out.Oct 28 22:38
schestowitzThey make nice silosOct 28 22:40
schestowitzDid you see those GIFs they produce to represent a roadmaps?Oct 28 22:40
schestowitzMarketing.Oct 28 22:40
schestowitzNice pictures, vapourware, illusion of plan and order.Oct 28 22:40
schestowitzIt's all the silos, GoblinRFD. yes. the silos! Shiny!!11Oct 28 22:41
GoblinRFDI hope Ive managed to create a new phrase (I havent read it anywhere else) ---- MS has its head where Azure is, in the clouds.Oct 28 22:41
GoblinRFDIm going to patent that.Oct 28 22:41
schestowitzMSBBC ads-ticle: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/tec...Oct 28 22:42
schestowitzPoetic patents are possible in the US, I think.Oct 28 22:42
schestowitzIt's still controversial.Oct 28 22:42
josethis kbd is sticky with chunksOct 28 22:44
*jose has quit ("Leaving")Oct 28 22:45
GoblinRFDI dont care if its controversial, Ill just do what MS does and threaten people regardless.Oct 28 22:46
schestowitzWhat with?Oct 28 22:46
schestowitzOh.Oct 28 22:46
schestowitzThe analogy.Oct 28 22:46
schestowitzOr catch phrase rather.Oct 28 22:46
GoblinRFDsorry, its Linux's fault.  Unlike Windows Im able to do more than one thing at a time, I was distracted by a game on Poker-THOct 28 22:47
GoblinRFDthats the reason for the delay.Oct 28 22:47
schestowitzWhines... "And if a lowly journalist is facing these attacks, you can be sure that they are becoming more common everywhere." < http://itmanagement.earthweb.com/osrc/article.php/3781026/I... >Oct 28 22:49
schestowitzContext to this: http://www.itwire.com/content/vie...Oct 28 22:49
GoblinRFDYeah, those attacks are the reason why I decided to come to this IRC room and chat.  I think users are more savvy now then MS gives them credit for.Oct 28 22:53
GoblinRFDI am of the attitude that if MS-agents are trying to put down your point of view, you must be in the right.Oct 28 22:53
GoblinRFDOur local computer group, removed openSUSE after Novell became assimilated by the Borg (MS)Oct 28 22:54
GoblinRFDbbl - Dead Set is on.  A five part UK made horror flick about big brother contestants, who whilst on the show are unaware that the world is being overrun by zombies! Great stuff!Oct 28 22:55
schestowitzYes, I saw some SUSE-owned LUGs the other day.Oct 28 22:58
schestowitzNovell pays them with gifts, I think. Watch this one: LUG has SUSE, Novell and Ken Starks, right (watch picture)?  http://linuxlock.blogspot.com/2008/1...Oct 28 23:02
schestowitzNow watch the link on the side to BoycottNovell (no, I didn't ask for it or anything). It even says in ALL CAPS "Truth is NOT relative - Boycott Novell"Oct 28 23:03
schestowitzNovell also sponsored a recent KDE conference in Europe, IIRC. They put Geeko and OpenSUSE logos all over the place. :-(Oct 28 23:03
schestowitzhttp://www.cnn.com/2008/TECH/10/28/i... (  Internet firms tackle human rights )Oct 28 23:06
schestowitzTrue: Internet Companies Pay Lip Service To Human Rights < http://www.cnn.com/2008/TECH/10/28/i... > Oct 28 23:13
*jose (n=jose@adsl-233-170-93.mia.bellsouth.net) has joined #boycottnovellOct 28 23:23
joseschestowitz, i went to your website.. i'm going to send you an email soonOct 28 23:24
schestowitzThanks.Oct 28 23:25
schestowitzs @Oct 28 23:25
josewhat is the name of the main group that defends against patent attacks on FOSS (3 letter acronym)Oct 28 23:54
josei forgetOct 28 23:54
schestowitzOINOct 28 23:54
schestowitzIt's not effective,Oct 28 23:54
schestowitzFFII is better.Oct 28 23:54
josethanks.. just wanted the nameOct 28 23:55
josejust sent you the emailOct 28 23:59
schestowitzACKOct 28 23:59

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