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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: February 27th, 2009 - Part 3

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seller_liarschestowitz: a one good thing + another bad thing = another good thingFeb 27 14:19
amarsh04s/a large/has a large/Feb 27 14:19
schestowitzIt was said explicitly that people would realise what they were really up to had the corporations not done something nice to the cameras every now and then.Feb 27 14:19
schestowitzamarsh04: that's good. Who sponsors it?Feb 27 14:20
amarsh04it's the government's restriction on tobacco advertising - only at point of sale and only brand names and health warnings allowedFeb 27 14:21
schestowitzGlamorisation of tobacco is pretty much a dead thing, but alcohol is still advocated a lot (unless you're child, in which case you just see signposts about it but you can't buy this 'desirable' drug).Feb 27 14:21
seller_liaramarsh04: This is very good , because a one bad thing  (disease) + another  bad thing ( cigarretes) = a more worst bad thingFeb 27 14:21
amarsh04no brand names mentionable without the colour pictures of diseased body partsFeb 27 14:21
seller_liaramarsh04: Because of this large image, people rejects cigarretes moreFeb 27 14:21
schestowitzamarsh04: it does what it says on the tin then. :-)Feb 27 14:22
schestowitzFor a change, cigarettes don't lead to wealth and sex.Feb 27 14:23
amarsh04I had to tell grand-daughter that smoking would harm her ability to sing - something she likes doingFeb 27 14:23
amarsh04and grand-daughter remembers that her great-grandmother smoked and had the same gangrenous feetFeb 27 14:23
seller_liaramarsh04: yes, this is skinner theoryFeb 27 14:24
seller_liaramarsh04: bad thing + another bad thing = a more bad thingFeb 27 14:24
seller_liaramarsh04: reinforcement theoryFeb 27 14:24
seller_liarseller_liar: people can destroy bad habits reinforcing about the dangers about that habitFeb 27 14:25
seller_liaramarsh04: : people can destroy bad habits reinforcing about the dangers about that habitFeb 27 14:26
seller_liaramarsh04: Like the big image doesFeb 27 14:26
amarsh04yes, seller_liarFeb 27 14:26
seller_liaramarsh04: but ,,Feb 27 14:26
seller_liaramarsh04: good habits  can be destroyed too....Feb 27 14:26
seller_liaramarsh04: like propaganda doesFeb 27 14:26
seller_liaramarsh04: for example , coca-cola use a lot of happy images to sell moreFeb 27 14:27
seller_liaramarsh04: this worksFeb 27 14:27
schestowitzit doesFeb 27 14:27
schestowitzfilms tooFeb 27 14:27
schestowitzA culture where "I'll have a coke" is like "bless you" or "cya later"Feb 27 14:27
seller_liarschestowitz: Yes, a lot  of movies put a lot of banner in climax scenesFeb 27 14:28
amarsh04grand-daughter had another good re-inforcement yesterday... we found a bag in the car park where we were visiting and I was just calling the police to see what would be appropriate to do with it when the owner turned up and bought grand-daughter an icecreamFeb 27 14:28
seller_liarschestowitz: People will remember the best scene of movie, but it will remember the banner tooFeb 27 14:29
schestowitzI guess it's the cost of watching filmsFeb 27 14:29
schestowitzThere are indirect costsFeb 27 14:29
seller_liarschestowitz: Yes, but forces people to buy more and more thingsFeb 27 14:30
amarsh04I finally saw "Master & Commander: the far side of the world" plus the dvd extras this weekFeb 27 14:30
amarsh04Peter Weir went out of his way to explain some of the film-making, and the coverage of the Galapogas islands and music development for the film was also greatFeb 27 14:31
seller_liarschestowitz: and worst , forces people to buy thing without think about ethicsaFeb 27 14:31
schestowitzGut feelingFeb 27 14:32
amarsh04I put off buying as long as possibleFeb 27 14:32
amarsh04last cd purchase was for my mum - Paul Robeson (Old man river and songs from that era) AUD$10Feb 27 14:33
seller_liarschestowitz: Another example , a lot of car companies uses woman to sell more carsFeb 27 14:33
seller_liarschestowitz: Sexy woman ( good thing ) + car = car is a good thingFeb 27 14:34
amarsh04am also maintaining current vehicles until is not feasible to get parts to repair themFeb 27 14:34
seller_liaramarsh04: Did you remember the m$ propagand which uses madonna song to promote windows Xp?Feb 27 14:35
seller_liaramarsh04: this is another example of reinforcement theoryFeb 27 14:35
amarsh04ABC Classic FM is more into participation - over 700 hours of live concerts broadcast, plus many free concertsFeb 27 14:35
seller_liarschestowitz: madonna song ( good thing ) + windows xp ( very bad thing) = windows is a good thingFeb 27 14:36
amarsh04I don't even remember santana performing "Smooth" for windows xpFeb 27 14:36
amarsh04I do remember the rolling stones "start me up" for windows 95Feb 27 14:36
seller_liaramarsh04: I remember tooFeb 27 14:37
schestowitzamarsh04: yes, radios is under threat now tooFeb 27 14:38
schestowitzThe RIAA is trying to tax Internet radio out of businessFeb 27 14:38
amarsh04ABC Classic FM has managed to stream live and deals directly with the living artists that it broadcastsFeb 27 14:39
schestowitzseller_liar: let's face it. Microsoft is a legal/marketing company.Feb 27 14:39
schestowitzThe other part of acquisition of companies and 'stealing' of ideasFeb 27 14:40
schestowitzGoogle is the same with the exception of searchFeb 27 14:40
schestowitzSearch gave it smart engineer ans branding power to sell old technology like E-mail.Feb 27 14:40
schestowitzThings like Google Apps they just boughtFeb 27 14:40
seller_liarschestowitz: Yes this is a bad thingFeb 27 14:40
amarsh04the down side is that while we get live broadcasts of classical music, we don't get broadcasts of orchestras performing with artists enslaved to record companiesFeb 27 14:41
schestowitzWhy compete?Feb 27 14:41
schestowitzJust buy yourself a factiuonFeb 27 14:41
schestowitzMake campsFeb 27 14:41
schestowitz"Co-opetition"Feb 27 14:41
amarsh04that's an old Novell wordFeb 27 14:41
schestowitzThat's not capitalism-inspired principlesFeb 27 14:41
schestowitzIt's a farceFeb 27 14:41
seller_liarschestowitz: People with power in one aspect (search ) uses this power to gain more power (apps ,mail etc...)Feb 27 14:41
schestowitzit's not free market either when the economy collapses and the public is handed a bill to payFeb 27 14:41
schestowitzamarsh04: true. Noorda.Feb 27 14:42
seller_liarschestowitz: I know roy , but people still dont think about ethics.Feb 27 14:42
seller_liarschestowitz: People only thinks in consuming and productionFeb 27 14:42
schestowitzThey are taught not toFeb 27 14:42
seller_liarschestowitz: While people don t change, the world will sufferFeb 27 14:43
schestowitzThey are told that the pseudo democracy where saying "no" to decisions sometimes is "public participation" is good for themFeb 27 14:43
schestowitzTeomocracyFeb 27 14:43
schestowitzVeto democracyFeb 27 14:43
schestowitzIf you don't like it, use free of speech and march the streetsFeb 27 14:43
schestowitzThat's US 'democracy'Feb 27 14:43
seller_liarschestowitz: The good guys that like about ethics must save the societyFeb 27 14:43
schestowitzPresidential candidates don't rise from the public's rank eitherFeb 27 14:43
seller_liarschestowitz: Rms for example gives a good contribution to society ,Feb 27 14:44
seller_liarschestowitz: We must promote more ethics to peopleFeb 27 14:44
seller_liarschestowitz: We need to create a infrastructure to promote ethcisFeb 27 14:45
seller_liarschestowitz: But I don t know how to doFeb 27 14:45
seller_liarschestowitz: BN helps a lot , but only about microsoft and alliesFeb 27 14:46
seller_liarschestowitz: We need to build a infrastructure capable to show about coca cola ,mcdonalds, nike , phillip morrisFeb 27 14:46
schestowitzWhy not create "planet"?Feb 27 14:47
seller_liarschestowitz: in a community and informal way , ( wikis, analysis , reflection ,opinions all) ,all about ethicsFeb 27 14:47
seller_liarschestowitz: Yes, But I don t have time .Feb 27 14:47
seller_liarseller_liar: We need to create a community oriented wayFeb 27 14:48
seller_liarschestowitz: : We need to create a community oriented wayFeb 27 14:48
seller_liarschestowitz: : People does ethical analysis about a company and them publishes to planetFeb 27 14:48
seller_liarschestowitz: Blogosphere is good source of peopleFeb 27 14:49
seller_liarschestowitz: A good infrasctructure = Blogsphere(analysts) + planetFeb 27 14:49
schestowitzThere's WikileaksFeb 27 14:49
schestowitzFor original evidence.Feb 27 14:50
seller_liarschestowitz: of course , but we must receive opinions tooFeb 27 14:50
seller_liarschestowitz: Opinion is not 100% fact , but is a good point of reflectionFeb 27 14:50
schestowitzThat's what I write about at this very momentFeb 27 14:50
schestowitzA leak about corruptionFeb 27 14:50
seller_liarschestowitz: We don t need to base all everything using only factsFeb 27 14:50
seller_liarschestowitz: Opinions are impoant tooFeb 27 14:51
amarsh04back in a few, loading new kernelFeb 27 14:55
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schestowitzseller_liar: see http://wikileaks.se/lea...Feb 27 14:56
schestowitzDisgustingFeb 27 14:56
schestowitzIt's hijacked by MS shills.Feb 27 14:56
seller_liarschestowitz: Yes , this is very sadFeb 27 14:57
seller_liarschestowitz: M$ is the most crazy company I have seenFeb 27 14:58
seller_liarschestowitz: Microsoft  needs to be exterminated of this worldFeb 27 14:58
MinceRagreedFeb 27 14:58
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Balroghey everyoneFeb 27 15:14
Balrogthey're complaining about my complaint about monoFeb 27 15:14
Balrogmy issues aren't with it not building, but rather them shifting the blame right away to someone else instead of helping find out what's really wrongFeb 27 15:15
BalrogI've worked with other FOSS projects before.Feb 27 15:15
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Balrogschestowitz: what do you think?Feb 27 15:15
schestowitzI am so annoyed to read this docFeb 27 15:28
schestowitzHave a look: http://wikileaks.se/leak/eu-oss-s...Feb 27 15:28
schestowitzBalrog: yes, I saw that. Mono's friends jump in to save the emperorFeb 27 15:29
MinceRany specific parts to look at?Feb 27 15:30
Balrogwhat he doesn't get is that I'm not complaining about the svn, or the bug, but rather the mentality of themFeb 27 15:30
Balroga real FOSS project will help you no matter what distro you're on (you want everyone to use it, right?)Feb 27 15:30
Balrogalso, I was trying to compile svn to test some stuff, so no, it wasn't to 'prove a point'Feb 27 15:31
Balrogbut the response from miguel wasn't very helpful.Feb 27 15:31
MinceRwhat if it's a package manager? :)Feb 27 15:32
MinceR...or a distro?Feb 27 15:32
Balroga package maintainer wouldn't try running svnFeb 27 15:32
MinceRare those not real FOSS projects? :>Feb 27 15:32
BalroghehFeb 27 15:33
BalrogI meant those upstream of distros or package managersFeb 27 15:33
Balrogthose that write the code for (more) critical stuffFeb 27 15:33
Balroginteresting that gentoo has patches for two of Mono's bugs in their treeFeb 27 15:34
Balrog(Mono 2.2 this is)Feb 27 15:34
schestowitzdon't feed the mono boosters is my adviseFeb 27 15:36
schestowitzI have reasons to suspect they are close to novell (not just geographically)Feb 27 15:36
Balrogwell if they want to boost mono, they shouldn't act this wayFeb 27 15:36
schestowitzMinceR: he's what you'll seeFeb 27 15:37
Balrog*really* want to boost mono, that isFeb 27 15:37
schestowitzThe anti-FOSS parts are from MS lobbyistsFeb 27 15:37
schestowitzThe whole panel is poisonedFeb 27 15:37
schestowitzJonathan Zuck and other shillsFeb 27 15:37
schestowitzIt's chaosFeb 27 15:37
Balrogsure is.Feb 27 15:39
MinceRschestowitz: i mean, in the pdf you linkedFeb 27 15:39
BalrogyeahFeb 27 15:39
BalrogohhFeb 27 15:40
Balrogmicrosoft apparently killed the rest of their simulation software divisionFeb 27 15:40
Balrogfirst Flight Simulator (a great product btw, not something I say very much about MS products), and now the rest apparently is goingFeb 27 15:41
Balroghttp://tech.slashdot.org/article.p...Feb 27 15:42
schestowitzIt's self explanatoryFeb 27 15:47
schestowitzSee the OSS-hotile stuffFeb 27 15:47
schestowitzOmissions, crossing outs..Feb 27 15:47
schestowitzErwin  (from OOo) is there too peddling the SAP party line.Feb 27 15:47
schestowitzTruly appalling.Feb 27 15:47
MinceRoh, i've found somethingFeb 27 15:50
PetoKrausrightFeb 27 15:52
PetoKrausi'm gonna need a wee bit of helpFeb 27 15:52
PetoKrauswhat's the state of OSS adoption in Germany?Feb 27 15:52
PetoKraus*FOSSFeb 27 15:53
schestowitzQuite OK, why?Feb 27 16:13
MinceRhm, is there a good summary of the state of FLOSS adoption in governments of earth?Feb 27 16:14
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schestowitzWall Street is in chaos todayFeb 27 16:17
schestowitzhttp://biz.yahoo.com/ap/090227/...Feb 27 16:18
schestowitzWatch CitigroupFeb 27 16:18
schestowitz$1.70Feb 27 16:18
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schestowitzNovell puts Linux on sale as earnings disappoint < http://news.cnet.com/8301-... >Feb 27 16:25
schestowitzhttp://blogs.zdnet.com/BTL/?p=13590 "Novell’s fiscal first quarter results were a mixed bag and Linux invoices fell sharply as the company failed to sign big deals."Feb 27 16:27
schestowitz" [SUSE] Linux invoices fell sharpyl"Feb 27 16:27
schestowitzGood.Feb 27 16:27
schestowitzRed Hat is upFeb 27 16:27
balzacgood newsFeb 27 16:40
schestowitzNovell will have to announce the layoffs shortly. it's history.Feb 27 16:41
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Omar871Hi allFeb 27 16:41
schestowitzHey there.Feb 27 16:42
Omar871How's it going?Feb 27 16:43
schestowitzDow Jones almost in 6000s territories. The corruption is killing not only them though.Feb 27 16:43
balzacRoy, you're delivering good news on such a consistent basis.Feb 27 16:43
schestowitzbalzac: : thanks, I did some Microsoft news todayFeb 27 16:43
schestowitzNow the news that MSNBC will report thoughFeb 27 16:43
balzacLemme check BNFeb 27 16:43
balzacMicrosoft is about to do a core-dump in their pantsFeb 27 16:47
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schestowitzbalzac: I need your helpFeb 27 16:57
schestowitzAs always, it's done quickly and sloppily, but at least it's something I can use in the future to point at evidence (PDFs/count docs):  http://boycottnovell.com/2009/02/27/...Feb 27 17:19
balzacRoy, how can I help?Feb 27 17:32
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schestowitzNever mind. I wanted you to help proofread the aboveFeb 27 17:43
schestowitzThere's another article now: How to Hijack an EU Open Source Strategy Paper < http://www.linuxjournal.com/content/how-... >Feb 27 17:44
Balrogyeah I see thatFeb 27 17:44
Balrogmentions that if 7 gets stuck in EU antitrust court, it may be delayedFeb 27 17:45
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schestowitzUN anti-blasphemy measures have sinister goals, observers say < http://www.canada.com/topics/news/world/... >Feb 27 18:30
schestowitz"But while the draft’s sponsors say it and earlier similar measures are aimed at preventing violence against worshippers regardless of religion, religious tolerance advocates warn the resolutions are being accumulated for a more sinister goal."Feb 27 18:30
schestowitzhttp://eyaloren.org/semperwiki.html " SemperWiki  is an open-source semantic personal Wiki for Gnome. It offers the usability of personal Wikis and the improved retrieval and querying of semantic Wikis. "Feb 27 18:34
schestowitzGovernment plans to keep DNA samples of innocent < http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009/f... >Feb 27 18:39
schestowitzUK supermarkets protest against Iceland's whaling quota increase < http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/fe... >Feb 27 18:40
schestowitzPolice in Atlanta sent to jail.:-)  Atlanta police look to restore trust after drug raid killing < http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/atlan... >Feb 27 18:41
schestowitzbalzac: http://www.tomdispatch.com/p/delavega "In this book, former federal prosecutor Elizabeth de la Vega brings her twenty years of experience and passion for justice to what may be the most important case of her career." Feb 27 18:42
schestowitz"The defendants are George W. Bush, Richard Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Condoleezza Rice, and Colin Powell. The crime is tricking the nation into war, or, in legal terms, conspiracy to defraud the United States. "Feb 27 18:42
balzacsweetFeb 27 18:43
balzacThe investigations are about to beginFeb 27 18:43
schestowitzThey also overthrew Aristide like a bunch of thugs (or some would say "terrorists") http://www.seattlemedium.com/news/Article...Feb 27 18:44
balzacthe repigs are desparateFeb 27 18:44
balzacthey know the sword of damocles is hovering above their necksFeb 27 18:45
schestowitzThey didn't like Aristide, he had to go. The cronies in the white house own the world... :-) ... to promote democracy :-)Feb 27 18:45
balzacThe main thing is that they don't like democracy in HaitiFeb 27 18:46
schestowitzObama: "I want nuuuathing to do wit' it!"Feb 27 18:46
balzacwell, he's doing things very carefull so far.Feb 27 18:46
schestowitzDemocracy = give authority to the [D]emocracy (Bush and pals)Feb 27 18:46
schestowitzDemocracy is imperialism or colonialsm. It's one of those cases where word lose their meaning and get investredFeb 27 18:47
schestowitzLike "liberate" <- > "invade"Feb 27 18:47
schestowitz"[H]e's found "a novel way of deflecting concerns" about his role in serious human rights abuses: "he has hired some of the activists abducted and beaten by his troops as campaign workers and legislative candidates." http://www.prwatch.org/node/8239Feb 27 18:48
schestowitzhttp://www.prwatch.org/node/8240 "General Motors has hired Michael Whouley, among the Democratic Party's "most respected organizers of grass-roots politics," in "a sign the company's fight for survival has become as much about politics and public image as business acumen," reports the Detroit News."Feb 27 18:49
schestowitz"Give us your -poor- money..."Feb 27 18:49
schestowitzV.President Cheney gives room for President Change and nothing changes... http://www.prwatch.org/node/8241Feb 27 18:51
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balzacIt'll be an awesome thing for Bush and Cheney to find themselves behind bars.Feb 27 18:56
schestowitzWon't happenFeb 27 18:59
schestowitzMaybe an house arrestFeb 27 18:59
schestowitzThe corrupt regime staysFeb 27 18:59
schestowitzNow they have another wave of corruption called "stimulus"Feb 27 19:00
schestowitzWait until they turn the population into farmers and sell assets like Citi and GM to China..Feb 27 19:00
balzacIt's not like you can get rid of all corruption in one political event.Feb 27 19:00
schestowitzThey'll call it........ "the newer new deal"Feb 27 19:00
balzacEven after a bloody revolution, you can't get rid of all corruption in societyFeb 27 19:00
balzacno amount of sacrifice can clear society of corruptionFeb 27 19:01
schestowitzhttp://news.zdnet.com/2424-9... (Hard times hit Bangalore)Feb 27 19:01
balzacI don't care about corruption, I just want to see Bush and Cheney behind bars.Feb 27 19:01
schestowitzIt will make you grin for a day. What /then/?Feb 27 19:01
trmancomeh, nobody replied to my FWDed emailFeb 27 19:01
schestowitztrmanco: that's OK. They read itFeb 27 19:01
balzacthat's good enoughFeb 27 19:02
balzacI'm an existentialist, not a progressiveFeb 27 19:02
schestowitzThere are two many Big CriminalsFeb 27 19:02
balzacAfter that, focus negativity on the next targetFeb 27 19:02
schestowitzCheney and Bush may be supreme examples, but that won't change enough.Feb 27 19:02
schestowitzIn fact, now that they are not in (much) power, that won't change much anywayFeb 27 19:03
schestowitzThey needed to be barred in 2003 when lies just about beganFeb 27 19:03
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schestowitzCompanies and countries rarely criminalise their chiefs. It's bad for their history and reputation (they also redid the image of Raegan, a corrupt cowboy who is said to have been a coward).Feb 27 19:04
balzacRoy, revenge is importantFeb 27 19:04
schestowitzThe only leaders to be punished as those caught by the enemy (e.g. military coup assisted by foreign nation)Feb 27 19:04
balzacthey need to be robbed of their social status and to have their egos deflated.Feb 27 19:04
balzacLife in prison would work fine for that.Feb 27 19:04
balzacthe world is getting too small to tolerate guys like BushFeb 27 19:05
schestowitzThey can share a booth with Tyson.Feb 27 19:05
schestowitzTalk about wine, ranches and stuffFeb 27 19:05
balzacTyson doesn't deserve to suffer their companyFeb 27 19:05
schestowitz:-)Feb 27 19:05
schestowitzDigg has had a toolbar?!? Et tu, Rose? http://www.pcworld.com/article/160359/digg_...Feb 27 19:06
schestowitzhttp://www.publicbroadcasting.net/wned/... (Obama set to end Iraq combat operations by Aug 2010)Feb 27 19:07
schestowitzThat's like asking "will Vista 7 be out in 2010"?Feb 27 19:07
balzacRoy, people need to learn the value of destroying just one person, such as Bush.Feb 27 19:07
schestowitzIt's always "next year," just like Longhorn (RIP)Feb 27 19:08
balzacIt can do so much for society.Feb 27 19:08
schestowitz"President Barack Obama will announce plans to withdraw all U.S. combat forces from Iraq by August 2010, fulfilling a campaign pledge to wind down an unpopular war that divided Americans, a U.S. Congressional aide said on Thursday."Feb 27 19:08
PetoKraus"The global amount used by IFPI on lobbying and fighting piracy is €£75 million." -> 75M thrown out of the Windowsâ„¢Feb 27 19:09
schestowitzSee what you think of http://boycottnovell.com/2009/02/...Feb 27 19:09
PetoKrausi'll finish this week of TPB firstFeb 27 19:10
schestowitzPetoKraus: 75M should be invested in investigators of white-collar crime, not people and their PC licencesFeb 27 19:10
PetoKrausgimme an hour:)Feb 27 19:10
PetoKrausschestowitz: yesFeb 27 19:11
PetoKraus75M couldFeb 27 19:11
PetoKrausfund you knowFeb 27 19:11
PetoKraus7500 students troughout their whole studyFeb 27 19:11
PetoKraus(partially)Feb 27 19:11
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PetoKrausThe reason for this drop is that the number of premieres have increased but sales have decreased. File-sharing has somewhat made the market thinner.Feb 27 19:13
PetoKrausGOODNES's sakeFeb 27 19:13
PetoKrausschestowitz: gimme a good film from last three yearsFeb 27 19:13
trmancohttp://www.fsfeurope.org/news/200...Feb 27 19:15
trmancoas anubody seen that?Feb 27 19:15
trmancoanybody*Feb 27 19:15
schestowitzPetoKraus: "thinner" = "no price fixing"Feb 27 19:15
schestowitzThey'lll need to compete against price.. based on pricing. Same as s/wFeb 27 19:16
PetoKraustrmanco: thanksFeb 27 19:16
schestowitzI watch YouTube lotsFeb 27 19:16
PetoKrausschestowitz: anywayFeb 27 19:16
schestowitzI don't need stinking MAFIAA contentFeb 27 19:16
schestowitz'Content'Feb 27 19:16
PetoKrausyou didn't name any good film made latelyFeb 27 19:16
trmancoyou're welcomeFeb 27 19:16
schestowitz         >PetoKraus> schestowitz: gimme a good film from last three yearsFeb 27 19:17
schestowitzPetoKraus: same for song.Feb 27 19:17
trmancowhat music genre do you guys hear?Feb 27 19:17
schestowitz"Beats, b*tches, and cars" is what's hot these days. Just grab some old sample from Sting or whoever.Feb 27 19:17
PetoKraushow the fuck are they willing to compete when they can't make a good movieFeb 27 19:18
schestowitzPetoKraus: some documentaries may be good, but it's not Hollywood.Feb 27 19:18
PetoKraustrmanco: rock. http://www.last.fm/user/PeterKrausFeb 27 19:18
PetoKrausschestowitz: yeahFeb 27 19:18
*schestowitz listens to Brazilian music ATMFeb 27 19:18
MinceRtrmanco: mostly trance, metal and video game soundtracks.Feb 27 19:18
schestowitzVideo games... :-)Feb 27 19:19
PetoKrausyeahFeb 27 19:19
PetoKrauscommand and conquerFeb 27 19:19
PetoKraus:)Feb 27 19:19
trmancoI use to like rock musicFeb 27 19:19
schestowitzI have lots from LarryFeb 27 19:19
schestowitzSierra..Feb 27 19:19
PetoKraustrmanco: i'm not into "mainstream" rock thoughFeb 27 19:19
trmancoNow I hear trace,psy trance,houseFeb 27 19:19
PetoKrauscoldplay, rhchp... not reallyFeb 27 19:19
trmancodanceFeb 27 19:19
schestowitzThey still make them free downloads on their site (the company is totally kaput now)Feb 27 19:19
trmancoold rock is kinda niceFeb 27 19:19
trmancolike Queen, NirvanaFeb 27 19:20
PetoKraustrmanco: yeah. if you take a peek trough that last fm link, you'll seeFeb 27 19:20
trmancoI already had a peak :-PFeb 27 19:20
PetoKraus:) it's prog lately.Feb 27 19:20
schestowitz:-o "B. Patents and software / B1 From terabytes to petabytes: exclusions from patentability / Speakers: Nicholas Wallin, Withers and Rogers / Dimitris Karagiannis,University of Vienna" http://documents.epo.org/projects/babylon/epone...Feb 27 19:21
tessier_Patentability...I still don't get it. Software is a number. But nobody wants to admit it.Feb 27 19:22
PetoKrauspatentabilityFeb 27 19:23
PetoKrauswhat's thatFeb 27 19:23
PetoKrausis that even in the dictionary?Feb 27 19:23
PetoKrausi mean, serioulyFeb 27 19:23
PetoKraus*slyFeb 27 19:23
PetoKrausopen the fucking oxford witchhammer edition dictionary of english languageFeb 27 19:23
PetoKrausand find that wordFeb 27 19:23
PetoKrausi doubt you can.Feb 27 19:23
trmancohttp://www.zazzle.com/tuxg2_wine_t_sh...Feb 27 19:24
PetoKraus:/Feb 27 19:24
MinceRall information is just numbers :>Feb 27 19:24
MinceRwitchhammer?Feb 27 19:24
PetoKrauswitchhammerFeb 27 19:25
PetoKrausyesFeb 27 19:25
PetoKraushttp://history.wisc.edu/sommervi...Feb 27 19:25
PetoKraushammer of the witchesFeb 27 19:26
PetoKrausit's a metaphor for huge book full.Feb 27 19:26
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PetoKraus*book.Feb 27 19:27
PetoKrausironically enough, it had only like 100 pagesFeb 27 19:27
PetoKrausand was pretty efficient as you may imagineFeb 27 19:27
OmarHiFeb 27 19:27
PetoKraushelloFeb 27 19:28
Omarschestowitz: I like the post about Vista 7 not shipping until 2010. :)Feb 27 19:28
MinceRPetoKraus: oh, i thought there was an edition officially called witchhammer.Feb 27 19:29
MinceRthat would have been cool.Feb 27 19:29
PetoKrausnah. it's my wrong translation :/Feb 27 19:29
PetoKrauswe call it witchhammer in slovak... though in english it's hammer againist witchesFeb 27 19:29
PetoKrausoh wellFeb 27 19:30
balzacThat book was used as a handbook for torturing women to death.Feb 27 19:30
OmarAnd you ya know guys? I think I've seen more than enough evidence so far that there is no need to worry about Vista 7 being a tough obstacle in front of Linux.Feb 27 19:30
PetoKrauswell yeahFeb 27 19:30
PetoKrausbut you know it strikes me sometimesFeb 27 19:30
PetoKraustoday, we had a lecture (surprise surprise)Feb 27 19:30
OmarIt's obvious. They can't even stick to their schedules, that's hilarious! :)Feb 27 19:31
PetoKrausand our prof uses '98 stillFeb 27 19:31
balzacsheeshFeb 27 19:31
Omar0_oFeb 27 19:31
balzacpoor old guyFeb 27 19:31
PetoKrausso i told my friend that until november or so Win 3.1 was still used in planesFeb 27 19:31
tessier_In planes?Feb 27 19:31
PetoKrausyeahFeb 27 19:31
PetoKrauslike airplanesFeb 27 19:31
tessier_For what purpose?Feb 27 19:31
Omarwow,,Feb 27 19:31
PetoKrausin the entertainment boxes which serve you ads, movies, and plane flight informationFeb 27 19:31
balzacjeezFeb 27 19:31
tessier_oh, ok.Feb 27 19:31
PetoKrausit's not ok, but OK :)Feb 27 19:32
tessier_I love it when I see Linux boot up in-flightFeb 27 19:32
PetoKrausanywayFeb 27 19:32
PetoKrausshe asked me "well, what do you use then, i bet you use vista"Feb 27 19:32
PetoKrausi mean, i have to take into account she's a girlFeb 27 19:32
PetoKrausand she wanted to study archaeologyFeb 27 19:32
schestowitzOmar: good, thanks.Feb 27 19:33
PetoKrausbut you know, when i told her that most of the internet doesn't use windowsFeb 27 19:33
PetoKrausshe almost didn't believe me,Feb 27 19:33
PetoKrauswellFeb 27 19:33
OmarPetoKraus: Of course she didn't. :)Feb 27 19:33
PetoKrausmeans i can ask her out for a glass of WineFeb 27 19:33
PetoKraus:)Feb 27 19:33
PetoKrausshe had the notion of linux being "that illegal cheap windows off the internet"Feb 27 19:34
schestowitzOmar: Vista7 is like Vista.Feb 27 19:34
PetoKrausand that she wants something prettyFeb 27 19:34
schestowitzIt was the same befoe Vista was releasedFeb 27 19:34
*PetoKraus facepalmsFeb 27 19:34
schestowitzThey inflate things using PRFeb 27 19:34
PetoKrausi guess i'm going to take my laptop in my school next weekFeb 27 19:34
PetoKrausanywayFeb 27 19:34
Omarschestowitz: I bet it will be even worse.Feb 27 19:34
PetoKrauswhich livecd is the nicest according to you guys?Feb 27 19:35
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PetoKrausi'm definitely going to show her elive, i'd like to see how it works.... SLAX is very very well polishedFeb 27 19:35
*MinceR very rarely uses livecdsFeb 27 19:35
PetoKrausi don't find ubuntu attractiveFeb 27 19:35
PetoKrausfedora? what else?Feb 27 19:35
MinceRi think i still have an old kubuntu and an old knoppix around somewhereFeb 27 19:35
schestowitzOmar: no, it's hard to do worse than VistaFeb 27 19:35
schestowitzIt's like MEFeb 27 19:35
balzacI favor debian-based distrosFeb 27 19:35
schestowitzvs 2000Feb 27 19:36
PetoKrausbalzac: yes butFeb 27 19:36
PetoKrausi need it for presentation purposesFeb 27 19:36
schestowitzOne is s*it, one is almost sh*tFeb 27 19:36
MinceRnope, they're both shitFeb 27 19:36
PetoKrausas my desktop is quite opposite of "nice and pretty"Feb 27 19:36
PetoKraussabayon?Feb 27 19:36
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schestowitzHey, fade-in Feb 27 19:36
Omarschestowitz: lol!Feb 27 19:36
fade-in'supFeb 27 19:36
balzacI've got to stop trying to convince people to switch their OSFeb 27 19:36
PetoKrausi'm not going to try to convince herFeb 27 19:36
schestowitzIt's about \marketing'Feb 27 19:37
balzacIf you try, they make you struggle.Feb 27 19:37
schestowitzAs loathed as it is.Feb 27 19:37
PetoKrausi'm going to fuck the idiocy out of her brain.Feb 27 19:37
PetoKrausi meanFeb 27 19:37
PetoKrausshe's at uniFeb 27 19:37
MinceRlolFeb 27 19:37
PetoKrausshe doesn't have any apology for being ignorantFeb 27 19:37
balzac"i'm going to fuck her" - KerpalFeb 27 19:37
PetoKrausyeahFeb 27 19:37
schestowitzPetoKraus: sounds like it's more than O/S you'e after ther.eFeb 27 19:37
PetoKrausthat's a nice by-productFeb 27 19:37
balzac"what did you say?" "nothing!"Feb 27 19:37
PetoKraus:)Feb 27 19:37
PetoKrausshe does rowing thoughFeb 27 19:38
Omarschestowitz: Ya know? MS is confused, they don't know what they want. That's why they're postponing the release to look like they're planning for something huge, which isn't.Feb 27 19:38
PetoKrausi hope she doesn't carry her oar with herFeb 27 19:38
OmarIn other words "Marketing".Feb 27 19:39
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PetoKrausking kong defence again!Feb 27 19:40
MinceRi prefer the Chewbacca defense.Feb 27 19:41
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PetoKrausi think you broke copyright by mentioning itFeb 27 19:45
PetoKrausyou are, effectively, stealingFeb 27 19:45
schestowitzHaha!! http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?...Feb 27 19:47
schestowitzYes!Feb 27 19:47
schestowitzACT busted, even with links and all.Feb 27 19:47
schestowitzI mailed the Zuck shill about itFeb 27 19:48
PetoKrausohFeb 27 19:48
schestowitzPetoKraus: I do rowing tooFeb 27 19:48
PetoKrausi don't know if you saw this http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/4...Feb 27 19:48
PetoKrausschestowitz: :)Feb 27 19:48
PetoKrausdoes it happen to youFeb 27 19:48
schestowitzI won trophies.Feb 27 19:48
PetoKrausthat people mistake oar for a paddle?Feb 27 19:48
PetoKrausin slovak the words are very similarFeb 27 19:48
PetoKrausso we always made fun when someone used them the wrong way aroundFeb 27 19:49
PetoKrausand said "it doesn't matter"Feb 27 19:49
PetoKrausthat we're going to hit him with oar instead of a paddle and he WILL know the difference :PFeb 27 19:49
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schestowitzFor those who may be interested, I did some further analysis (independently) of this document, including some background material on ACT and other lobbying arms that are paid by Microsoft to participate: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/02/27/...Feb 27 19:52
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Balrogschestowitz: fix the link (well I will)Feb 27 19:55
schestowitzThe Microsoft shills are already all over it with spin in SlashdotFeb 27 19:55
Balroghttp://boycottnovell.com/2009/02/27/mic...Feb 27 19:55
schestowitzhttp://slashdot.org/firehose.p...Feb 27 19:56
Balroggood that there's the modding systemFeb 27 19:57
Balrog(on slashdot)Feb 27 19:57
balzacThe problem with the software battle is that techno-illiterate people love to join the frayFeb 27 19:58
balzacproprietary software vendors cater their propaganda to them just like politicians rile up the dumb people.Feb 27 19:58
balzacwe have to learn to use the techno-illiteratesFeb 27 19:59
tessier_531015572043105936369954 is my number and you can't use it. If you give anyone else that number I will sue you for violating my copyright.Feb 27 19:59
balzacit requires a non-intellectual marketing campaignFeb 27 19:59
tessier_That number just happens to be the source code to my computer program converted to decimal.Feb 27 19:59
tessier_Software is math.Feb 27 20:00
tessier_And actually, so is all information. Including movies and music.Feb 27 20:00
balzacHow about this - if you use apple, you're probably a woman, if you use microsoft, you can't get laid. That leaves only GNU/Linux.Feb 27 20:00
balzacThat message is free of anything to do with technology, it attacks two competitor brands and presents free software as the only viable choice for your average man.Feb 27 20:01
balzacIt's pretty lame, I guess.Feb 27 20:02
balzacIt's lame because it doesn't attract women to use free software.Feb 27 20:02
schestowitztessier: some people patent [patterns in numbersFeb 27 20:03
balzacIf you use Apple, you probably also wear a hello kitty backpackFeb 27 20:03
schestowitzCopyrights = numberFeb 27 20:03
schestowitzPatents = many numbersFeb 27 20:03
schestowitzTrademarks = name for the numberFeb 27 20:03
schestowitzIn a sense.Feb 27 20:03
schestowitzMore like vendors and recognition, but these names too are FINITE (strings)Feb 27 20:04
schestowitzLogos alsoFeb 27 20:04
schestowitzJot some little stripe and Nike will be on your backFeb 27 20:04
schestowitzA couple of circles and Disney might be fuming.Feb 27 20:04
schestowitzJust in:  vista wins the fiasco awards http://www.fiascoawards.com/Feb 27 20:05
schestowitzSee? Microsoft is still a winnerFeb 27 20:05
tessier_Kinda like winning the Special Olympics...Feb 27 20:05
trmancohttp://www.jankoatwarpspeed.com/post/200...Feb 27 20:05
schestowitzAlmost 90% of "market share"  ....... "WINDOWS VISTA, out of the 6.403 people voting, 5.222 considered Microsoft's Operating System a Great Fiasco."Feb 27 20:06
schestowitztessier: not really. in the Olympics you have people competing for meritFeb 27 20:06
schestowitzDon't insult disabled people by comparing it to Vista.Feb 27 20:07
schestowitzToo late...' One of the most quotable lines from the Gutmann analysis sums this up perfectly as, “breaking the legs of Olympic athletes and then rating them based on how fast they can hobble on crutches.” ' http://badvista.fsf.org/blog/analysi...Feb 27 20:07
schestowitzMore AMD Layoffs today  http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/n... goner?Feb 27 20:10
schestowitz IT crowd does 34 days a year unpaid overtime  < http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/187/1... >Feb 27 20:11
schestowitzWages stagnated, pressure rose over the yearsFeb 27 20:11
schestowitzTHE ease tech was intended to bring.. haFeb 27 20:11
schestowitz Microsoft has made only 36 changes to Windows 7  < http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/18... >Feb 27 20:16
schestowitz British premier promises science bonanza  < http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn1668... >Feb 27 20:18
amd-linuxthat will not be enough to fix the remaining 2000 bugs: http://www.daniweb.com/blogs/entry4050.htmlFeb 27 20:18
schestowitzYes, I knowFeb 27 20:18
schestowitzThey spin the rushFeb 27 20:19
amd-linuxalthough me thinks they would be well served if there really would be only 2000 bugs....Feb 27 20:19
schestowitzThe biggers delay tells that they worry about the next report (April) because people stay away from Vista like it's the plagueFeb 27 20:19
schestowitzHad VIsta been acceptable, Windows sales would not go downFeb 27 20:19
schestowitzThey now sell $0 Windows XPFeb 27 20:20
schestowitzThe new slogan is "buy VIsta NOW"... upgrade it ti 7 some time "alter"Feb 27 20:20
schestowitz*laterFeb 27 20:20
amd-linuxI think they do not only "sell" for 0 USD but give kickbacks, so actually they pay..... for XPFeb 27 20:20
schestowitzThey scare people by saying that XP won't upgrade well to Vista7Feb 27 20:20
schestowitzWhich is tactless because they drive people to Linux by saying itFeb 27 20:21
amd-linuxmost windows user dont care if there is no upgrade path - they are used to reinstall every 4 weeks :-)Feb 27 20:21
schestowitz'Vista Capable' plaintiffs try to resurrect class-action status < http://www.techflash.com/microsoft/Plaintiffs_try... >Feb 27 20:26
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schestowitzPeople pay to bail out newspapers from their own incompetence: http://www.ecommercetimes.com/story/6629... "Journalists will likely study new ways of telling stories and new ways of delivering content, and perhaps get some training in using softwareFeb 27 20:31
schestowitz"Blake Jorgensen, Yahoo's chief financial officer, said today that the company is open to a search partnership with Microsoft, but that such a deal would be complex to implement from a technology standpoint." http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/sf...Feb 27 20:37
schestowitzhttp://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2009/... (Digg to Take On StumbleUpon and TinyURL?)Feb 27 20:45
schestowitzUsing International Fear to Steal Our Freedom < http://organizedexploitation.blogspot.com/2009/0... >Feb 27 20:46
schestowitzhttp://blog.seattlepi.com/microsoft/archiv... (Microsoft might sell $3 billion in debt over next 6 months)Feb 27 20:53
schestowitzCaribbeans littered by US navy..  http://edition.cnn.com/2009/TECH/science/02/26/u... "Hundreds of corroding and unexploded bombs litter the sea floor, leaking toxins and taking a toll on nearby marine life. The munitions were left by the U.S. Navy, which had a training site on Vieques for six decades."Feb 27 21:22
PetoKrausschestowitz: mind asking you a question?Feb 27 21:24
PetoKraushave any info about FOSS adoption in Germany?Feb 27 21:24
PetoKrauspast or present...Feb 27 21:24
schestowitzYou do a project on it..?Feb 27 21:25
PetoKrausnoFeb 27 21:25
PetoKrausthe girl i was talking about is germanFeb 27 21:25
PetoKraus:DFeb 27 21:25
PetoKrausi guess the best way to tell her i'm not lying is point out what's happening in her own countryFeb 27 21:26
PetoKrausespecially since britain is not the most FOSS positive country there isFeb 27 21:26
PetoKrausi thought there was a city hall which was migratingFeb 27 21:26
PetoKrausi can't remember where was it... stuttgart?Feb 27 21:27
schestowitzhttp://www.heise.de/english/newsti... (Google asks to be exploited!)Feb 27 21:27
schestowitzMunich for starters.Feb 27 21:27
PetoKrausi'll look into thatFeb 27 21:27
schestowitzSome regions moved to Linux entirely.Feb 27 21:28
schestowitzHold on.Feb 27 21:28
schestowitzGerman Federal Government to Support ODF http://opendotdotdot.blogspot.com/2008/1...Feb 27 21:28
schestowitzGerman Green MEP says Microsoft should be excluded from EU contract awarding procedure http://www.heise.de/english/newstick...Feb 27 21:28
schestowitzDE: German Foreign Ministry will not use ISO OOXML http://ec.europa.eu/idabc/en/doc...Feb 27 21:29
schestowitzGerman county adopts OpenOffice.org http://blogs.sun.com/dancer/entry/germa...Feb 27 21:29
schestowitzGerman penal institutions looking into OpenOffice.org http://ooomarketing.blogspot.com/2008/02/german-pe...Feb 27 21:29
schestowitz[German] Federal Employment Office switches to Linux http://www.heise.de/english/new...Feb 27 21:29
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schestowitz3German government plans to use open document formats in its administration http://www.heise.de/english/newsticker...Feb 27 21:30
schestowitzGerman parliament plans to pursue open source strategy further http://www.heise.de/english/news...Feb 27 21:30
schestowitzCity of Munich is looking for additional Linux specialists (technical system integration) http://www.marsmenschen.com/index.php/2006/12/22/city-o...Feb 27 21:30
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zuzaHelloFeb 27 21:56
zuzaI can't get why that Novell-MS marriage is that dangerous. If it is why people cant't just drop SUSE?Feb 27 21:59
schestowitzHeyFeb 27 21:59
tessier_zuza: Why can't people just drop MS?Feb 27 22:00
schestowitzzuza: people can drop it.Feb 27 22:00
zuzaI could.Feb 27 22:00
zuzaAnyway I can't get how does the Novell-MS story is related to personal choice.Feb 27 22:01
zuzaSo what is the threat?Feb 27 22:03
schestowitzMostly patents and strategyFeb 27 22:04
schestowitzNovell is helping Microsoft nowFeb 27 22:04
schestowitzAnd vice versa in factFeb 27 22:04
schestowitzNovell is more closely tied to Microsoft to to FOSS/LinuxFeb 27 22:04
schestowitzI'm doing a post about it at the very moment in factFeb 27 22:04
zuzaThe only threat that is easy for me to understeand is legislation as long as patent goes.Feb 27 22:05
zuzaOk, will read it.Feb 27 22:06
zuzaWell, is it a must to cooperate with FOSS?Feb 27 22:06
schestowitzDone :-) http://boycottnovell.com/2009/02/27/nove...Feb 27 22:11
schestowitzzuza: I write about patents too. Novell is not helping.Feb 27 22:12
zuzaOh, I remeber there was some isu that MS was licensing FAT and it was said that MS did not have rights to keep doing it (however there was no regulation to make MS give the money back). I don't know how did that story ended.Feb 27 22:21
zuzaissue*Feb 27 22:21
schestowitzzuza: yes, I will do a post about itFeb 27 22:21
schestowitzIt was made invalid in GermanyFeb 27 22:22
schestowitzOT: http://blogs.sun.com/GullFOSS/... "Cool, GullFOSS is top 1 on blogs.sun.com"Feb 27 22:22
schestowitzFederal Patent Court declares FAT patent of Microsoft null and void < http://www.heise.de/english/newsti... >thanks, zoobab01 Feb 27 22:22
zuzaOk, but the threat is legislation not MS nor Novell.Feb 27 22:26
schestowitzhttp://www.vnunet.com/vnunet/news/22375... "But the firm's employees have also been braced for further job cuts after an initial 100 cuts were announced earlier this month."Feb 27 22:26
schestowitzThis suggests that indeed more layoffs are coming.Feb 27 22:26
schestowitzzuza: who do you think drives legislation?Feb 27 22:27
schestowitzCase of point from today: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/02/27/m...Feb 27 22:27
zuzaThose who had been voted for. :-)Feb 27 22:27
schestowitzDell Records 48 Percent Drop in Net Income < http://www.pcworld.com/article/160327/dell_rec... >Feb 27 22:27
MinceRIn Soviet Russia, government controls business. In Soviet America, it's the other way around!Feb 27 22:28
schestowitzzuza: not trueFeb 27 22:28
schestowitzThey are pushes around by corporationsFeb 27 22:28
schestowitz*pushedFeb 27 22:28
schestowitzMinceR: Soviet America?? USSA?Feb 27 22:28
MinceRthe USian voting system is very far from optimalFeb 27 22:28
MinceRschestowitz: :)Feb 27 22:28
zuzaSoviet Union, European Union, American Union... any one cares? ;-)Feb 27 22:29
MinceR:)Feb 27 22:29
zuzaOk, I understand there are pushes, but these pushes exist because there are "pushable" people. Am i Wrong?Feb 27 22:30
MinceRmost people are prone to corruptionFeb 27 22:31
zuzaAll people are.Feb 27 22:31
MinceRat least most living people areFeb 27 22:31
zuzaBut it is not MS fault that they are using it (if they really do) and abusing it (if they really do).Feb 27 22:32
zuzait = being prone to corruptionFeb 27 22:32
MinceRbribery committed by m$ is m$'s faultFeb 27 22:32
zuzano it is notFeb 27 22:32
zuzaMS corp is the copany seeking for gainsFeb 27 22:32
MinceRby what twisted logic is it not?Feb 27 22:33
zuzathey use any oportunityFeb 27 22:33
MinceRwell, that's unethical, immoral and unacceptableFeb 27 22:33
schestowitzzuza:  to corrupt?Feb 27 22:33
schestowitzThat may be true.Feb 27 22:33
MinceRoperating in the name of a corporation is no excuse for immoral actionsFeb 27 22:33
zuzaI say that the system that allows such things is twistedFeb 27 22:33
schestowitzThey are innocent... just tempted to bribe.Feb 27 22:33
MinceRand i say that it is m$ that takes advantage of that possibilityFeb 27 22:33
schestowitzzuza: no enforcement maybeFeb 27 22:34
MinceRzuza: if i said i were tempted (by the possibility) to beat you senseless and take your money, would you consider me innocent?Feb 27 22:34
zuzaLook, but is there any need to create and keep "the system" that allows that kind of actions?Feb 27 22:34
MinceRnot reallyFeb 27 22:35
schestowitzOh dear. They want to kill some more people now? http://www.pcworld.com/article/160355/microsoft_ex... Didn't they learn from those English hospitals that became zombies?Feb 27 22:35
MinceRit's a corrupt system maintained by a corrupt speciesFeb 27 22:35
schestowitzThis is also lockin on people's PERSONAL medical data, i.e. matter of life or deathFeb 27 22:35
schestowitzThis smacks of corrupted officials handing over control of life to a crooked company that's close to Bush.Feb 27 22:36
zuzaok, ok, I'm just trying to understand the whole issue as well.Feb 27 22:36
schestowitzMinceR: I have some solutionsFeb 27 22:36
MinceRas do iFeb 27 22:36
schestowitzFirst -- more wikileaks like facilitiesFeb 27 22:36
MinceRbut i suspect you wouldn't like my solutions :>Feb 27 22:36
schestowitzThen, offer taxpayers money as reard to whsistleblowerFeb 27 22:36
schestowitz*blowersFeb 27 22:37
MinceRmy solution involves killing evil people.Feb 27 22:37
zuzaThe system that allows the corruption simply makes a corruption an ordinary tool for keeping everyday businessesFeb 27 22:37
schestowitzMake a society where everyone can snitch... make it transparentFeb 27 22:37
schestowitzPeople would be scared to make a move because they would get caughtFeb 27 22:37
schestowitzMinceR: I know your soluitonsFeb 27 22:37
schestowitzNo fires pleaseFeb 27 22:37
MinceRi like fires. :>Feb 27 22:37
schestowitzOh dear.Feb 27 22:38
schestowitzFury beats fireFeb 27 22:38
schestowitzPuts a new meaning on the phrase "fire this man"Feb 27 22:38
MinceRthey're compatibleFeb 27 22:38
MinceR:)Feb 27 22:38
schestowitzIf they do something bad that isFeb 27 22:38
MinceR"build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day. set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life."Feb 27 22:38
schestowitzSacked means they get... well, put in a sack?!?!Feb 27 22:38
MinceRnah, not for anything badFeb 27 22:39
schestowitzLaid off... well, poor them... maybe you'll have them laid.Feb 27 22:39
zuza(- Fire at will!, - Where is Will?)Feb 27 22:39
MinceRbut for evils on ballmer's and gates' level, i wouldn't hesitate muchFeb 27 22:39
MinceRzuza: lolFeb 27 22:39
schestowitzMinceR: sick stuff.Feb 27 22:39
zuzaWill, Bill whatever...Feb 27 22:39
zuza;-)Feb 27 22:39
schestowitzMinceR: they'll be replaced by othersFeb 27 22:40
MinceRi'd ask them what do they have to say for themselves, but i doubt they would have anythingFeb 27 22:40
schestowitzYou don't resolved by eliminatingFeb 27 22:40
MinceRschestowitz: well, eventually we'll run out of assholesFeb 27 22:40
schestowitzHumans are similar creaturedFeb 27 22:40
schestowitzDon't expect dissimilar actions from future gensFeb 27 22:40
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MinceRnot all humans areFeb 27 22:40
MinceRalso, education can work, at least at an early ageFeb 27 22:40
schestowitzIt's not even Darwinism by fire, so to speakFeb 27 22:40
mib_9w7zzdok ok what is all thing about 2012Feb 27 22:41
zuzaMinceR: in the corrupted (becuse they are corruptable) systems typically with high taxes, there are lots of black workers. Is being a black worker immoral?Feb 27 22:41
schestowitzIt's better to make a radically transparent systemFeb 27 22:41
MinceRas soon as we stop locking children of slightly different age categories together so that the older ones can teach the younger ones to be nastyFeb 27 22:41
schestowitzPeople like Glyn Moody are in favbourFeb 27 22:41
schestowitzMake politics a looking glass.Feb 27 22:41
MinceRzuza: that's irrelevant to the questionFeb 27 22:41
schestowitzPublic visibility atop everything.Feb 27 22:41
zuzaMinceR: it is not the issue of being or not moral (or immoral) whatever.Feb 27 22:41
*mib_9w7zzd has quit (Client Quit)Feb 27 22:41
schestowitzAnd whistle blowers everywhere too.Feb 27 22:41
zuzaThe same goes for the system that is corruptable by default.Feb 27 22:42
zuzaCorruption is like the air to our lungs.Feb 27 22:42
schestowitzNot really.Feb 27 22:43
zuzaCorruptions makes that kind of system breathing.Feb 27 22:43
MinceRzuza: why is your black worker a black worker?Feb 27 22:43
schestowitzzuza: it's not a racial issueFeb 27 22:43
zuzaIf there was no corruption (in a corruptable system) it would ceased to be.Feb 27 22:43
schestowitzThough colonialism is a disgrace and it's everywhereFeb 27 22:43
schestowitzEven slavery is still around... wage slavery being one exampleFeb 27 22:43
schestowitzPatents facilitate colonialismFeb 27 22:43
schestowitz"I own this /idea/, but you can't because I'm richer than you"Feb 27 22:44
schestowitzThis isn't foodFeb 27 22:44
schestowitzIt's ideas, it's mathsFeb 27 22:44
MinceRzuza: it is impossible to set up a legal system with no loopholesFeb 27 22:44
zuzaschestowitz: I stick to metaphors not colonial, racial or whateve stuff.Feb 27 22:44
zuzaNight is dark.Feb 27 22:44
MinceRit is also impossible to legislate moralityFeb 27 22:44
schestowitzMaybe this endless greed that has the economy spiraling down the tube will bring some needed changeFeb 27 22:44
zuzaPeople were afraid of nigth (dark, black, whatever)Feb 27 22:45
MinceReven though that's the alleged goal of legal systemsFeb 27 22:45
zuzathus associacionFeb 27 22:45
schestowitzPeople whine about loss of money, but production of basics can stay the sameFeb 27 22:45
schestowitzJust not luxurie.sFeb 27 22:45
schestowitzAnd colonislismFeb 27 22:45
MinceR(well, in the better case --- the worst case is when it admittedly exists for its own sake)Feb 27 22:45
zuzageeeFeb 27 22:45
zuzaOk: is it immoral to work out side of tax system?Feb 27 22:45
schestowitzzuza: animal instinct, like vertigo.Feb 27 22:46
MinceRdepends on what the tax system, how it works and for whose benefitFeb 27 22:46
MinceRbut i think that it would be better to abolish the state, and with it the tax system.Feb 27 22:46
zuzaschestowitz: are you sayin tha you are something better than an animal?!Feb 27 22:46
schestowitzzuza: go ahead police 13-y-o babysittersFeb 27 22:46
MinceRit's just a formalized and particularly efficient form of armed robbery.Feb 27 22:46
MinceRzuza: we're all animals -- multicellular, heterotrophic eukaryotes.Feb 27 22:47
MinceRwith no cell walls.Feb 27 22:47
zuzaAnd patents contribute to it 9at least the way they are at the moment)Feb 27 22:48
schestowitzApple Cracks Down on Emoji Apps < http://www.pcworld.com/article/160370/a... > iPhone ->theirPhoneFeb 27 22:49
zuzaSimple there are the people who claim to regulate things, so it is obvious for people (who have money and want to earn) who should theu stick to.Feb 27 22:49
schestowitzzuza: we can make banking practical (past corrupt bankers), so why not social operations?Feb 27 22:50
zuzaIf there was no group of people who can create/refgulate patent laws there would be no bribery by MS, Novell, or whoever.Feb 27 22:50
schestowitzIf the banking system was like IT procurement, money would be lost & found in your account every other weekFeb 27 22:50
schestowitzBut banks tend to keep track of accounts properlyFeb 27 22:50
MinceRzuza: why should they stick to anyone, especially those people?Feb 27 22:50
schestowitzIn procurement, corruption drives choice?Feb 27 22:50
zuzaschestowitz: could you reaxplain? (not sure If I got the idea)Feb 27 22:51
schestowitzWhy is that? Maybe social protocols?Feb 27 22:51
schestowitzWe're too vulnerable to social engineering (corruption), so it's time for a rethinkFeb 27 22:51
schestowitzzuza: maybe processes have contraints and monitortingFeb 27 22:51
schestowitzAs a teller at a bank you can't 'steal' money from the register. Why?Feb 27 22:52
zuzaThere is no money in the register?Feb 27 22:53
schestowitzWhat utter BS... 10 Reasons to Avoid Office 2007 < http://www.pcworld.com/article/16... >  "Upgrading is inevitable............"  HUH???Feb 27 22:53
schestowitzzuza: no, you'll be caught pretty fastFeb 27 22:53
MinceRwell, support will endFeb 27 22:53
schestowitzAnd you can move to better s/wFeb 27 22:53
MinceRsome people will be reluctant to do soFeb 27 22:53
schestowitzBut IDG mentality is: MS version x or MS version X+1Feb 27 22:53
schestowitzOr: MS product 1; MS product 2Feb 27 22:54
MinceRthey deceive themselves into thinking that m$ crap is better than everything elseFeb 27 22:54
schestowitzOr: MS edition X and MS edition Y (e.g. VIsta)Feb 27 22:54
schestowitzThe illusion of choice. Embrace the logic.Feb 27 22:54
zuzaschestowitz: I lose the point.Feb 27 22:54
schestowitzDecisions, decisions... jail or prison?Feb 27 22:54
MinceR:DFeb 27 22:54
schestowitzzuza: there are social protocols.Feb 27 22:55
schestowitzAlso organisational oneFeb 27 22:55
zuzaOk. I get the example, but I lose the point.Feb 27 22:55
schestowitz*onesFeb 27 22:55
zuzaOk, the other way "what are that "social protocols"?Feb 27 22:55
schestowitzWhy not ensure you crack down on SweatyB bribing people in Hungary for a deal?Feb 27 22:55
schestowitzUsing OOXML favours, back room promises, etc.Feb 27 22:55
schestowitzThat's what tenders are for, but they are not constrained or monitored, thus corruotFeb 27 22:56
zuzaBut why not to fight against that system that keeps that "briberyable" people at Hungary?Feb 27 22:56
zuzaGetting rid of MS will not solve the problem.Feb 27 22:56
schestowitzBlech. IDG is so infatuated with advertisers (Apple, MS) these days...Feb 27 22:57
MinceRthe people maintain the systemFeb 27 22:57
schestowitzzuza: that's right, it won;tFeb 27 22:57
MinceRmost human beings are evil and stupid, they want a leadership, they want opressionFeb 27 22:57
schestowitzzuza: find the people, find the corrupt systemFeb 27 22:57
schestowitzBN slammed ISO a lotFeb 27 22:57
zuzaMinceR: all, alll, all. We are not better. :-)Feb 27 22:57
schestowitzEven their Wikipedia page got BNedFeb 27 22:57
MinceRand until that thinking changes, systems like the ones we've always had will always come upFeb 27 22:57
MinceRthe thinking of people must be changed for the situation to get any betterFeb 27 22:57
MinceRthen we can get rid of the stateFeb 27 22:58
zuza"always"?!Feb 27 22:58
schestowitzyESFeb 27 22:58
schestowitzYou need to name peopleFeb 27 22:58
schestowitzISO has no feelingsFeb 27 22:58
schestowitzPeople in ISO doFeb 27 22:58
schestowitzFind the crooksFeb 27 22:58
*oiaohm (n=oiaohm@unaffiliated/oiaohm) has joined #boycottnovellFeb 27 22:58
MinceRand some people will always be resistant to thisFeb 27 22:58
MinceRthus, they'll have to be eliminatedFeb 27 22:58
schestowitzLikewise in MicrosoftFeb 27 22:58
zuzaOh, a couple of ages ago it was pretty acceptable, wasn't it? ;-)Feb 27 22:58
schestowitz"MS sucks" won't offend anyoneFeb 27 22:58
MinceRwe have the luxury of choice, with the overpopulation problem we're havingFeb 27 22:58
zuzaerrr: WHAT?!Feb 27 22:59
schestowitzShowing leaked E-mails where they break the law might put them in cuffs in a land where corruption is not a standardFeb 27 22:59
zuzaover what?!Feb 27 22:59
schestowitzSo people in the EU can see what Microsoft people do and then choose to boycott these companiesFeb 27 22:59
oiaohmhttp://blogs.zdnet.com/open-so...  This might strain Novell and MS releations.Feb 27 22:59
zuzaoh, of course notFeb 27 22:59
zuzaEU is asking for a nice bribe. :-)Feb 27 22:59
oiaohmThinking Novell has agree to provide legal support to the Linux Foundation.Feb 27 23:00
schestowitzoiaohm: thanks, seen itFeb 27 23:00
schestowitzBit Novell is with MSFeb 27 23:00
schestowitz"peace of mind" and allFeb 27 23:00
*Casperin has quit ("Leaving")Feb 27 23:00
schestowitzMr. "respect Microsoft" Zemlin, eh?Feb 27 23:00
oiaohmLinux foundation has the money to out last Microsoft.Feb 27 23:01
oiaohmTo be correct with MS current share price they have the money to buy MS out completely.Feb 27 23:02
oiaohmSo how I think MS is going to back off.Feb 27 23:02
schestowitzThey have IVFeb 27 23:02
schestowitzthe trolls of their ownFeb 27 23:02
schestowitzLinux Foundation is a front for IBM et alFeb 27 23:02
schestowitzCall it "kernel foundation"Feb 27 23:02
oiaohmIBM HP DELLFeb 27 23:02
oiaohmYep OS boycott from them would kinda kill MS.Feb 27 23:03
schestowitzThey are already troublesFeb 27 23:03
schestowitzVistaX delayedFeb 27 23:03
schestowitz*troubledFeb 27 23:03
oiaohmIBM HP and DELL take it in turn to provide the kernel foundation with hardware.Feb 27 23:03
schestowitz Bruce Schneier  writes for MSBBC: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/techno...Feb 27 23:03
zuzaerrr, they say its going to be delivered by the end of this yearFeb 27 23:04
oiaohmSun also throws in paid for and not picked up orders.Feb 27 23:04
schestowitz"With a title like that, I hope you're not expecting this post to be light reading. I'm also blindly assuming that you have at least a passing familiarity with the concepts of Objectivism and the Ãœbermensch." http://penguinpetes.com/b2evo/index.php?...Feb 27 23:06
schestowitzzuza: na-ah!Feb 27 23:06
oiaohmNote before IBM HP and DELL took turns with hardware support to the Kernel foundation.   Poor kernel foundation end up with 4 truck loads of stuff with no where to put it.Feb 27 23:07
zuzaHence, people confuse Nitsche works with his sister's works I do nto know where I should go in to that discussion. ;-)Feb 27 23:08
zuzahttp://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comm...Feb 27 23:10
zuzathe same goes for "black workesr" and other stuff.Feb 27 23:11
zuzawhat kind of idiot told you that "black workesr" is the result of colonialism?!Feb 27 23:11
schestowitz*LOL* "Laughter filled The Pirate Bay trial here Wednesday when John Kennedy, the chief executive of the International Federation of Phonographic Industries, testified that people would have purchased every music track they got free file sharing. " http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2...Feb 27 23:12
zuza(the term I mean)Feb 27 23:12
schestowitzzuza: me??Feb 27 23:12
zuzaIf it was not for that channel I would never come to that associationFeb 27 23:13
schestowitzWhy this association?Feb 27 23:14
schestowitzI just posted something from a Linux sites I sawFeb 27 23:14
zuzaOh, I mean "black" refering to "Afroamericans" and "Afroafricans"Feb 27 23:14
schestowitzI didn't bring this upFeb 27 23:15
zuzaoh, whatever (it was MinceR I guess)Feb 27 23:15
MinceRohFeb 27 23:15
MinceRi thought you meant unregistered, illegal workersFeb 27 23:16
zuzaI just saw that again "Nitsche" is not Nitsche so there was another issue of the kindFeb 27 23:16
zuzaAnd I did.Feb 27 23:16
MinceRNietzsche? :>Feb 27 23:16
zuzaIt was his sister in factFeb 27 23:16
zuzaWho produce all that things which are associated with his name.Feb 27 23:17
schestowitzGood for Linux (servers reuse to increase): http://www.serverwatch.com/stats...Feb 27 23:17
schestowitzzuza: read that post. It's actually about something else.Feb 27 23:18
zuzaI am lost in fact.Feb 27 23:18
zuzaMy main reason for chatting here is to understand why MS-Novl is evil.Feb 27 23:19
schestowitzCould Microsoft be trying to acquire TomTom?  http://blogs.computerworld.com/could_mi...Feb 27 23:20
schestowitzzuza: yes, we got distractedFeb 27 23:20
schestowitzNovell's deal is bad because Microsoft and Novell fight against Free softwareFeb 27 23:20
zuzaIf you live in a country where they pay you for your ass and you have no choice you can die.Feb 27 23:20
schestowitzThey turn it to something else and help Microsoft as long as money is shared among the twoFeb 27 23:21
zuzaschestowitz: into what?Feb 27 23:21
schestowitz'mixed source' is one thingFeb 27 23:22
schestowitzAnother is stuff that's build with Mirosoft's so-called IPFeb 27 23:22
schestowitzSo it's Microsoft 'leading' FOSSFeb 27 23:22
schestowitzAnd Microsoft taxing itFeb 27 23:22
schestowitzAnd letting it be something secondaryFeb 27 23:22
schestowitzwindows is a dinosaurFeb 27 23:22
schestowitzMcirosoft pays Novell to turn Linux into a dinosaur tooFeb 27 23:22
oiaohmLinux kernel is a dinosaur in places.Feb 27 23:23
oiaohmLot of them being fix at moment.Feb 27 23:23
oiaohmNT good design poor implementation.Feb 27 23:23
schestowitzMicrosoft's main shill in the UK is attacking FOSS:  Open source is years behind commercial products, says Socitm president < http://www.computerweekly.com/Articles/2009/02/... >Feb 27 23:23
schestowitzThat's the guy behind the Get the Facts roadshowFeb 27 23:24
schestowitzFirst the Microsoft buddies from FortifyFeb 27 23:24
schestowitzNow this.Feb 27 23:24
zuzahey, why MS and Novell have no right to fight against free software?Feb 27 23:24
zuza(let's assume they do)Feb 27 23:25
oiaohmMS has the right to.Feb 27 23:26
oiaohmThe question is it wise.Feb 27 23:26
oiaohmAlmost every hardware maker they depend on is part of the Linux Foundation.Feb 27 23:26
zuzaas we are seeing money (the paper) is loosing trust in its value (no more gold into money conversion)Feb 27 23:27
zuzaand... I guess the opens source is some kind of demandFeb 27 23:27
zuzano money, but there is some kind of valueFeb 27 23:27
zuzaso all in all whatever "open source folks" produce is a rival to what MS producesFeb 27 23:28
zuzavalue vs. valueFeb 27 23:28
zuzathe war goes at corruptable theatreFeb 27 23:28
oiaohmHardware guys want to sell hardware.Feb 27 23:29
oiaohmThey really don't give a crap about the OS on it.Feb 27 23:29
oiaohmOther than cheeper the better.Feb 27 23:29
zuzaI would say it is not what ones sell, but it is what others are willing to buy.Feb 27 23:30
zuza(To be honest I can't understand the idea of mixed source at all - ok, ok, I read the definition a few times).Feb 27 23:31
oiaohmMS ideaFeb 27 23:32
oiaohmMost people don't run pure open source machines.Feb 27 23:32
oiaohmthat is the way it is.Feb 27 23:32
oiaohmPeople don't run pure closed either.Feb 27 23:32
oiaohmSo MS says it Mixed source.Feb 27 23:32
oiaohmDifference here Open Source OS is talking about the core of the OS being open.Feb 27 23:33
schestowitzzuza:http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.php... "DO NOT partner with Microsoft ! "Feb 27 23:33
schestowitzSee context tooFeb 27 23:33
zuzaOh, I guess I meant that I can't get the idea of developing a mixed source product.Feb 27 23:33
schestowitzhttp://www.linuxtoday.com/news_stor... "Glad to see people are wise to Novell's dumb business decisions and are avoiding them like the plague. Stick with Red Hat or Canonical and you will be much better off."Feb 27 23:33
zuzaisn't Red hat doing som virtualisation business with MS lately?Feb 27 23:34
schestowitz"Hey! Novell look at Redhat and Ubuntu. They are doing well and did not take bribe money from Microsoft. " http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.php...Feb 27 23:34
schestowitzzuza: yesFeb 27 23:34
schestowitzWithout patentsFeb 27 23:34
zuzaOK, al goes wrong Novell kills SUSE as a project. But I can't understand the threat.Feb 27 23:35
schestowitzzuza: many good comments about Novell's poor results, I suggest you read 'em: http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_s... Feb 27 23:36
zuzafor open source.Feb 27 23:36
schestowitzit's s not just usFeb 27 23:36
schestowitzLinuxToday has many 10s of 1000s of readers and they dislike NOVL tooFeb 27 23:36
schestowitzhttp://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story... "Novell seems like Sun, sometimes they like open source software and Linux, other times they wish the open source and Linux never existed....."Feb 27 23:38
oiaohmSun is diffent to NvellFeb 27 23:40
oiaohmNovellFeb 27 23:40
oiaohmSun can make a profit without a software side.Feb 27 23:40
schestowitzYesFeb 27 23:41
schestowitzCould.Feb 27 23:41
schestowitzSun is now liaising with HPFeb 27 23:41
oiaohmSun has a fairly strong hardware side.Feb 27 23:44
oiaohmWhat does Novell have that is strong.Feb 27 23:44
schestowitzIt's still trying to find outFeb 27 23:46
zuzaWordperfect story with MS Corp. ;-)Feb 27 23:46
schestowitzIt tries security... identity..Feb 27 23:46
schestowitzzuza: that's on the ice pretty muchFeb 27 23:46
zuzaIt was my first guess when I heard of MS-Novell dealFeb 27 23:47
zuzaAs it might bee cheaper to buy Novell thhan to put things to trial.Feb 27 23:47
zuza(solved by trial)Feb 27 23:48
schestowitzAdvogato, Twitter, MySpace, Facebook, Digg, Reddit, Flickr, Linkedin, helpmeee!! < http://blog.linuxtoday.com/blog/2009/02/... >Feb 27 23:48
zuzaSO weakening Novl is one thing, but still I can't get the threat to open source (ok, I looked through that links and comments)Feb 27 23:49
zuzaschestowitz: err, what does it mean "on the ice"? kehem "hot? (lol ;-) )Feb 27 23:49
schestowitzNo Word about it [punFeb 27 23:50
*schestowitz thinks he gets a mild headache this eveningFeb 27 23:52
zuzais a mild headache like being half pregnant?Feb 27 23:52
MinceRWord -- Write letterz n' shit, yo.Feb 27 23:52
MinceRgnFeb 27 23:53
schestowitzWooord!Feb 27 23:55
schestowitzhttp://comakid.files.wordpress.co...Feb 27 23:55
schestowitzzuza: no, just a sign that I need to make some tea! :-)Feb 27 23:55
*oiaohm has quit (Remote closed the connection)Feb 27 23:56
zuzaOrange pekoe has been sucking lately in my nearby area. ;-)Feb 27 23:56
schestowitzI see.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orange_PekoeFeb 27 23:57
schestowitzHad to look it up..Feb 27 23:57
zuzaAh, I have got a question about mixed source that i can't understand as well. :-)Feb 27 23:59

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