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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: March 13th, 2009 - Part 3


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_Hicham_that is what i like about itMar 13 20:52
_Hicham_everything is neatly done in a professional wayMar 13 20:52
_Hicham_no need to think about the layoutMar 13 20:53
_Hicham_it is the de facto standard in scientific documentsMar 13 20:54
_Hicham_I ve read about KileMar 13 20:55
_Hicham_but I didnt use it, since I have gnomeMar 13 20:55
_Hicham_and KDE apps do not fit very well on gnomeMar 13 20:56
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schestowitzI hope PJ is properly back now that the RSS feeds are back. Contributions to good causes outlast some hardships. PJ too has taken her much-deserved break. We all do. Mar 13 21:04
schestowitzHehe. re JZuck someone says: "I like him because you know what you get and they are easily attackable."Mar 13 21:04
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schestowitz*LOL* 13 21:08
schestowitzSecurity vs. privacy? Reinterpreting the Fourth Amendment < >Mar 13 21:08
schestowitzEasy to get 'promoted' from gutter level: MPAA announces major promotions < >Mar 13 21:13
balzacRoy, I read that link you posted on Linus Torvald's trash-talkingMar 13 21:20
balzacI have to admit, the guy has a sense of humorMar 13 21:21
balzacIt can't be interpreted any other way than as dry humorMar 13 21:21
balzac 13 21:21
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balzacThe person I have the greatest problem with is that (in)famous communistMar 13 21:22
balzacRMS. Now, RMS may have been responsible for GNU, the GPL, GCC and manyMar 13 21:22
balzacother contributions to the computing community, but his stance, as well asMar 13 21:22
balzacstench, displayed in his essays and actions, nauseates me. I mean, withMar 13 21:22
balzacpeople refer to Linux as GNU / Linux?Mar 13 21:22
balzacthat filth-ridden beard of his, where does he have room to demand thatMar 13 21:22
balzacthat's pretty sillyMar 13 21:22
balzacobviously sarcasticMar 13 21:22
balzacNext in line of dirty scuzz-balls I have to deal with, and probably theMar 13 21:22
balzacworst thorn in my side, is Alan Cox, the primary coder of my kernel's TCP/IPMar 13 21:22
balzacstack (ha, what a joke!) and all around dirty GNU hippy. Alan viewsMar 13 21:22
balzactoothpaste the same way a vampire views garlic.Mar 13 21:22
balzacridiculousMar 13 21:22
balzacThen he zings ESRMar 13 21:23
balzacAnd then we come to ESR. I won't reiterate the sewer-dweller like cleansingMar 13 21:23
balzachabits he practices as well, but I would like to focus on his generalMar 13 21:23
balzaclifestyle. I like to refer to ESR as AGB or “Arrogant Gas Baron.” The man’Mar 13 21:23
balzacs flatulence is legendary.Mar 13 21:23
MinceR(offtopic) 13 21:23
balzacOk, Linus isn't such a square afterallMar 13 21:23
balzache's a real clownMar 13 21:23
balzacI'd like to see him upgrade the Linux Kernel to GPLv3, but ultimately, I'm not attached to that goal.Mar 13 21:24
balzacI want to see Hurd development resume.Mar 13 21:24
MinceRbalzac: sounds like someone who has run out of arguments (if he had any to begin with)Mar 13 21:24
MinceRhence, ad hominem.Mar 13 21:24
schestowitzEnjoy: SXSW 2009 on BitTorrent: 6 GB of Free MusicMar 13 21:24
balzacI'm less offended by his dry humor than I am by his intellectually-dishonest arguments against RMS and GPLv3Mar 13 21:25
balzacMinceR: I can only take those scathing comments as jokes because they're so sillyMar 13 21:25
schestowitz 13 21:27
_Hicham_balzac:Linus is known for thatMar 13 21:27
schestowitzDownload itMar 13 21:27
balzacI mentioned that I thought Mark Shuttleworth was uneccessarily diplomatic. I prefer an environment of jocular trash-talking as demonstrated by Linus Torvald's comments aboveMar 13 21:27
schestowitzMake the MAFIAA angrierMar 13 21:27
schestowitzWait until the MAFIAA patents soundsMar 13 21:27
schestowitzand then claims infringement of music patents or somethingMar 13 21:28
_Hicham_Shuttleworth is at another positionMar 13 21:28
balzac_Hicham_: I don't follow Linus very closely because he's always trying to hog the spotlight, criticizing Richard Stallman.Mar 13 21:28
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balzacI think of Shuttleworth and Torvalds as leutenants and RMS as the 4-star generalMar 13 21:29
balzacor something like that...Mar 13 21:29
_Hicham_balzac : Linus have said : " I am an egocentric person"Mar 13 21:29
schestowitzI get good speedsMar 13 21:30
schestowitz6GB of music, RIAA-free.. nothing illegalMar 13 21:30
_Hicham_but he has a big sense of humorMar 13 21:30
_Hicham_and we all love himMar 13 21:30
schestowitzbalzac: : give Linus a breakMar 13 21:30
schestowitzHe's better off on our teamMar 13 21:31
schestowitzBy alienating we divide furtherMar 13 21:31
_Hicham_Roy : it is not gonna divide usMar 13 21:31
schestowitzRMS too tries to get alongMar 13 21:31
_Hicham_we are just talkingMar 13 21:31
MinceRi like the community to be as diverse as it is. :)Mar 13 21:31
_Hicham_yesMar 13 21:31
_Hicham_that is trueMar 13 21:31
schestowitz_Hicham_: let's concntrate on real issues like Apple and MSMar 13 21:31
_Hicham_Roy : OKMar 13 21:32
schestowitzLinus would be the wrong target, IMHOMar 13 21:32
_Hicham_Roy : He is not a targetMar 13 21:34
_Hicham_We all love himMar 13 21:34
_Hicham_balzac have a great sense of humor tooMar 13 21:35
_Hicham_let express oursleves freelyMar 13 21:35
_Hicham_by the way, have u ever used Octave?Mar 13 21:37
schestowitzWarner Music attacks babies  < >Mar 13 21:38
balzac _Hicham_ , my dad tells me to keep my sense of humor in a kryptonite box or I'll be socially-ostracizedMar 13 21:38
schestowitzBah. Who cares.. :pMar 13 21:39
_Hicham_balzac : well, at least here u can express it freelyMar 13 21:39
schestowitzThere's something very fun about seeding these torrentsMar 13 21:39
schestowitzIt's sharing the loveMar 13 21:39
schestowitzTotally legalMar 13 21:40
balzacRoy, LT is not a target as far as I'm concerned, but I like to retaliate when he rips on RMS. When he's seriously criticizing, not when he's joking.Mar 13 21:40
schestowitzAn artists makes the songs freeMar 13 21:40
schestowitzThen all the people spread it through the networks worldwide.Mar 13 21:40
schestowitzIt's the 'disease' that scares the RIAAMar 13 21:40
balzac 13 21:40
schestowitzSuddenly their music is expensiveMar 13 21:40
schestowitzand CC kicks their assesMar 13 21:40
balzacthat's my editorial piece hitting back at LT on behalf of RMS & the FSFMar 13 21:41
schestowitzbalzac: agreedMar 13 21:41
schestowitzAnother Finnish person had similar views, I thinkMar 13 21:41
schestowitzMickosMar 13 21:41
balzacBut Linus Torvalds doesn't have a thin skin, so I'm not worried about his fragile ego.Mar 13 21:41
trmancoMicrosoft-Novell Relationship Hits the Skids: 13 21:43
schestowitz:-)Mar 13 21:43
balzacI don't think Mark Shuttleworth is a cry-baby either. It's the fanboys of the prominent figures who get bent out of shape.Mar 13 21:43
trmanco"So Novell, one of the biggest Linux distributors in the world, and Microsoft, one of the biggest companies in world history, couldn't find a single large customer on Planet Earth to buy into Novell's Suse Linux Enterprise Server software. "Mar 13 21:44
balzacThe phrase the bloggers like to use is WATB (whiney-assed titty babies)Mar 13 21:44
schestowitzGood! FP tooMar 13 21:44
schestowitzThat ought to raise awareness.Mar 13 21:44
schestowitzI'll leave a quick commentMar 13 21:46
_Hicham_microsoft used FreeBSD on their hotmail serversMar 13 21:47
trmancoyeah, long time agoMar 13 21:47
balzacwith any luck, Novell and SuSE can extricate themselves from the lecherous embrace of Steve BallmerMar 13 21:47
balzacBallmer could use a good nicknameMar 13 21:48
trmancoBallnuxMar 13 21:48
trmancoBallusEMar 13 21:48
balzacthat's SuSE EnterpriseMar 13 21:48
balzacBut what about Ballmer himself?Mar 13 21:48
balzache already has one: Monkey-BoyMar 13 21:48
trmancohe is a broken Windows machineMar 13 21:48
balzacbbiabMar 13 21:49
schestowitzI don't want to ruin my "excellent" karmaMar 13 21:49
schestowitzI said: "People still buy Red Hat. Check their numbers. Novell was warned (since the beginning of its relationship with Microsoft) that Microsoft 'partners' consistently get stabbed in the back. It took Novell a couple of years to take the toll."Mar 13 21:49
trmancoit's in some kind of infinite loop (the sweat), and when it hits the Climax (BSoD) he start jumping like a monkeyMar 13 21:49
schestowitzWhat?Mar 13 21:51
schestowitzbalzac: if these numbers are true ( ), then Fedora may be the next Ubuntu, in terms of market share. F11 looks good so far.Mar 13 21:53
_Hicham_Roy : fedora has still a long way to go to be comparable to UbuntuMar 13 21:53
schestowitzIt would be heathier to have an equal RPM/DEB split (Fedora and Mandriva vs Debian(s)/Buntus)Mar 13 21:53
schestowitz_Hicham_: they use the same componantsMar 13 21:54
schestowitzIncluding GNOMEMar 13 21:54
schestowitzYou're talking about it as though Fedora needs to implement something that Ubuntu got _for itself_Mar 13 21:54
_Hicham_Roy : Fedora needs to change their package formatMar 13 21:54
_Hicham_that is what i concludedMar 13 21:55
_Hicham_it is too slowMar 13 21:55
_Hicham_and more complicatedMar 13 21:55
_Hicham_deb packages are easy to create and maintainMar 13 21:55
_Hicham_even for a newbieMar 13 21:55
_Hicham_yum is still a mess compared to aptMar 13 21:55
_Hicham_RedHat is a great company, but they are just stubborn about rpm and yumMar 13 21:57
*schestowitz can't wait for the torrents to finish. Tired of listening to these old Nas CDsMar 13 21:57
schestowitz_Hicham_: Mandriva handles RPMs nicelyMar 13 21:58
schestowitzNever given me any problemMar 13 21:58
schestowitzNot even outside repos (downloads as RPMs)Mar 13 21:58
_Hicham_maybe urmpi has evolvedMar 13 21:58
_Hicham_i didnt use it for a whileMar 13 21:58
schestowitzI had spotless experiences with Ubuntu repos tooMar 13 21:59
_Hicham_in any way, i always think that they must be a universal packages management mechanismMar 13 21:59
_Hicham_since package management is basically the sameMar 13 21:59
_Hicham_an abstraction of deb and rpm formatMar 13 22:00
_Hicham_that would make things easier to distributeMar 13 22:00
_Hicham_package management is all about dependenciesMar 13 22:00
_Hicham_yum and apt both resolve dependenciesMar 13 22:01
_Hicham_but apt is praised to be more efficientMar 13 22:01
_Hicham_rpm is installed by default in ubuntuMar 13 22:02
_Hicham_yum is available in official repoMar 13 22:02
_Hicham_so u could use them both to produce binariesMar 13 22:02
schestowitzFun article: (Computer Data Storage Through the Ages -- From Punch Cards to Blu-Ray)Mar 13 22:03
schestowitzF*Mar 13 22:07
schestowitzI think my torrent overload the pipeMar 13 22:07
schestowitzTotally legalMar 13 22:07
schestowitzBut daemonisedMar 13 22:07
schestowitz SourceForge Announces Support for Git, Bazaar and Mercurial...Mar 13 22:09
schestowitzbrb dinnerMar 13 22:11
_Hicham_bring back some food with uMar 13 22:13
_Hicham_:DMar 13 22:14
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Balrog_don't know if you learned, butMar 13 22:20
Balrog_iPod Touch 2G is jailbrokenMar 13 22:21
MinceRwhy jailbreak it if you can get a digital music player that's functional by default?Mar 13 22:22
MinceRwith warrantyMar 13 22:22
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Balrog_which one???Mar 13 22:22
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Balrog_btw, jailbreak does NOT void warrantyMar 13 22:22
Balrog_there is ROM recovery modeMar 13 22:22
MinceRfor example, something from CowonMar 13 22:22
Balrog_not the same qualityMar 13 22:23
Balrog_the ipod-touch community is largeMar 13 22:23
schestowitzNot what it sounds like: Worm blamed for laptop crash  < >Mar 13 22:24
schestowitz"Mark Taylor's laptop recently crashed because of a worm . But the worm was of a different type. It was a 12 centimeter long earthworm, which crawled into an air vent of his laptop and coiled itself around a cooling fan. The result? The laptop overheated."Mar 13 22:24
MinceRwhat does a community of apple fanboys have to do with quality?Mar 13 22:24
MinceRplease make some sense.Mar 13 22:24
Balrog_not fanboysMar 13 22:25
Balrog_the dev communityMar 13 22:25
Balrog_like Jay Freeman and all those guysMar 13 22:25
Balrog_also, which platform can I get more applications (of any kind) for?Mar 13 22:26
Balrog_iPod Touch wins fast.Mar 13 22:26
schestowitz*LOL* 13 22:26
schestowitzPerens on NovellMar 13 22:26
Balrog_more 'jailbreak' apps, more 'official' appsMar 13 22:26
schestowitz"OK, cue the violins! Now, all of you at once!AAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaa   awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww! "Mar 13 22:26
MinceRBalrog_: palmos, windows mobile? :)Mar 13 22:29
Balrog_MinceR: buggy as ****Mar 13 22:30
Balrog_both of thoseMar 13 22:30
Balrog_Android is decentMar 13 22:30
MinceRnow please argue that apple software is bugless so i can laugh loudly at youMar 13 22:30
Balrog_but then again, no music player has itMar 13 22:30
MinceRand then so i can feel really sorry for youMar 13 22:30
Balrog_No, Apple software has *fewer* bugs than both palmos and windows mobileMar 13 22:31
Balrog_it's likeMar 13 22:31
MinceRalso, apparently you don't mind design flaws at allMar 13 22:31
MinceRlike the one that makes you _jailbreak_ the damn thing to begin withMar 13 22:31
Balrog_windows Mobile ------- PalmOS -------------------- Apple OS -------- (0-bugs)Mar 13 22:31
Balrog_definitely not bug-freeMar 13 22:31
schestowitzPerens and Allison on FAT and GPL: 13 22:31
Balrog_but I've had experience with palmMar 13 22:31
Balrog_no fun :/Mar 13 22:31
MinceRsee people, this is the Reality Distortion Field in actionMar 13 22:31
Balrog_so does Android make you jailbreakMar 13 22:31
MinceRandroid is almost as crap, yesMar 13 22:32
Balrog_Of iPhone OS, Palm OS, and Windows Mobile, iPhone OS has the fewest bugsMar 13 22:32
Balrog_in my experiencesMar 13 22:32
Balrog_yes, it still has bugsMar 13 22:33
Balrog_sometimes safari quits unexpectedly, among other thingsMar 13 22:33
MinceRby the way, if we're counting locked-down crap like the iphone os, let's not forget symbian eitherMar 13 22:34
schestowitzBlack Duck (sounds like Black F*) is once again FUDing FOSS: 13 22:34
schestowitzThe company was founded by a Microsoft employeeMar 13 22:34
Balrog_I haven't used it, but I don't believe symbian is UNIX-based (POSIX-compliant, optional [though may need to jailbreak] Terminal app, etc) or has as many quality appsMar 13 22:35
MinceRplease remind me, when did we make "unix-based" a criterion here?Mar 13 22:36
Balrog_can you jailbreak symbian, and do interesting stuff on it?Mar 13 22:36
MinceRhow far will you bend over backwards in your futile attempts to make apple crap look like it's usable?Mar 13 22:37
schestowitzAdobe still doesn't get it: Adobe: 'Open' But Not Always Open Source < >Mar 13 22:37
MinceRyes, symbian can be jailbroken tooMar 13 22:37
MinceRand yes, it's a pain to doMar 13 22:37
Balrog_apple stuff is very usable. I get much more use out of it than any other stuff. Sure, Linux is close behind, but that is how it isMar 13 22:37
Balrog_(speaking from experience, not politics)Mar 13 22:38
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MinceRand continuing your reasoning, apple stuff is not very usable because i get less use out of it than any other stuff.Mar 13 22:40
Balrog_that's your experienceMar 13 22:40
Balrog_but I don't know if you ever tried to *use* it or notMar 13 22:40
MinceRwhich is by no means less valuable than yoursMar 13 22:40
MinceRi have tried to use osx and it suckedMar 13 22:41
Balrog_for how long?Mar 13 22:41
Balrog_a day? a week? a month?Mar 13 22:41
MinceRit didn't live up to a millionth of the hypeMar 13 22:41
Balrog_what version?Mar 13 22:41
MinceRi didn't measure it; whatever version someone offered as a vmware vmMar 13 22:41
MinceRs/vm/image/Mar 13 22:41
Balrog_heh, there's a problemMar 13 22:41
Balrog_and how long?Mar 13 22:42
MinceRdunnoMar 13 22:42
MinceRi got tired of the ui pretty quicklyMar 13 22:42
Balrog_well you're used to stuff that many people hateMar 13 22:42
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Balrog_like mouse focusMar 13 22:43
Balrog_as I said, layering windows works fine for meMar 13 22:43
Balrog_and there are virtual desktopsMar 13 22:43
MinceRi'm used to stuff that works, thank-you-very-muchMar 13 22:44
Balrog_ms windows doesn't have mouse focusMar 13 22:44
MinceRwhile apple fanboys haven't even experimented with settingsMar 13 22:44
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MinceRwindows is crap, tooMar 13 22:44
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MinceReven then, windows is more flexible than osxMar 13 22:44
MinceRand it has a taskbar :>Mar 13 22:44
Balrog_I hate that taskbarMar 13 22:45
MinceRi expected thatMar 13 22:45
Balrog_when I use windows, it gets full so quickly that it becomes uselessMar 13 22:45
MinceRyeah, not like you can resize it... oh, waitMar 13 22:45
*Balrog_ likes having dozens of windows open at onceMar 13 22:45
*MinceR has them tooMar 13 22:45
Balrog_yeah, then it takes over an insane amount of spaceMar 13 22:45
MinceRyeah, that's what autohide is forMar 13 22:45
MinceRor a widescreen monitorMar 13 22:46
Balrog_I've used that tooMar 13 22:46
Balrog_but also you can't easily identify which is whichMar 13 22:46
MinceRi canMar 13 22:46
MinceRperhaps you can't :>Mar 13 22:46
Balrog_well I find the taskbar very inefficientMar 13 22:46
Balrog_maybe you don'tMar 13 22:46
MinceRit's the best idea m$ stole from arthur/risc os ;)Mar 13 22:47
Balrog_many say it's a bad ideaMar 13 22:47
Balrog_apparently you don't think soMar 13 22:47
MinceRapparentlyMar 13 22:48
schestowitztaskbar is bad metaphorMar 13 22:48
schestowitzKDE imitates itMar 13 22:48
MinceRquick, tell me that i'm the only person in the world who thinks it's a good ideaMar 13 22:48
schestowitzTask and systray are similarMar 13 22:48
schestowitzi tried awn for a whileMar 13 22:48
MinceRmetaphors are overratedMar 13 22:49
schestowitzcrap tooMar 13 22:49
schestowitzJust toss your apps in the designated desktops and call it a dayMar 13 22:49
MinceRapple fanboys keep claiming how intuitive their favorite crap isMar 13 22:49
Balrog_well on os x I don't use the taskbar for app switching, rather cmd-tabMar 13 22:49
MinceRit isn'tMar 13 22:49
schestowitzCTRL+Fx for switchingMar 13 22:49
Balrog_the taskbar is more useful for opening appsMar 13 22:49
MinceRno interface is intuitive, everything is learnedMar 13 22:49
schestowitztaskbar is good for group handling Mar 13 22:49
schestowitzOnly in KDE thoughMar 13 22:49
Balrog_s/taskbar/dockMar 13 22:50
schestowitzLike 'minimise all'Mar 13 22:50
schestowitz20 windows sometimesMar 13 22:50
Balrog_and os x lets you hide all of an app's windowsMar 13 22:50
schestowitzMinceR: agreedMar 13 22:50
Balrog_or yes, hide all temporarilyMar 13 22:50
MinceRand if you don't agree, get a windows fanboy to try osx and ask himMar 13 22:50
schestowitzSpeaking of interface, a friend mailed me this some minutes ago: "As his article says, Cinelerra is capable of some really kick-ass effects.  It is really on par almost feature for feature with Final Cut Pro, except for some effects. Mar 13 22:50
schestowitz"It give you highly granular control over your work, but as you can tell from the GUI screenshots on his blog, it is highly complex and requires a good bit of study, and, as his blog implies, some really serious horsepower if you are going to get maximum use of the power of Cinelerra."Mar 13 22:50
Balrog_try to get a windows fanboy to try linux as wellMar 13 22:51
MinceRor check how many questions does a _real_ newb ask when learning osxMar 13 22:51
schestowitzCinelerra is advanced and complexMar 13 22:51
MinceRBalrog_: the point is the same: no ui is intuitiveMar 13 22:51
schestowitz"But of course, for the cost of Final Cut Pro, you could actually afford the kind of kick-ass machine he is describing, and then run Cinelerra (soon to become Lumiera) on it. "Mar 13 22:51
Balrog_a _real_ newb is someone who hasn't tried windows or linux OR os xMar 13 22:51
MinceRBalrog_: exactlyMar 13 22:51
schestowitzHe prefers Kino anywayMar 13 22:51
schestowitzMuch simplerMar 13 22:51
MinceRBalrog_: note my clever use of the word 'or'Mar 13 22:51
Balrog_with os x I get much more done than with windows (and some more than with Linux)Mar 13 22:52
schestowitz"Thanks so much for sending me that link!  I am really excited by the fact that people are starting to see that video editing can be simple under GNU-Linux.  It is so important that we (the FOSS community) are seen as sexy and attractive, because we need to do a much better job of pulling in new users, so that when we are attacked as in the TomTom example, we will have more people on our side to fight along with us. "Mar 13 22:52
schestowitz"Success is no longer a technological issue, it is now a political issue.  Video editing is something that can make use look cool and sexy. "Mar 13 22:52
MinceRBalrog_: afaik kde can be configured to use most of the stupid ideas of the osx ui -- have you tried that?Mar 13 22:52
schestowitzMunchkins (even Apple users)  throw mud at Linux over videoMar 13 22:52
MinceRwell, maybe not the random button orderMar 13 22:52
Balrog_explain where to configure. I've tried kde and it's rather messyMar 13 22:52
MinceRi'm not sure if that's configurable in any guiMar 13 22:52
Balrog_Random button order???Mar 13 22:53
Balrog_elaborateMar 13 22:53
schestowitzAV is quite all right at the FOSS level. At proprietary levels it's fine for HOLLYWOOD studiosMar 13 22:53
schestowitzMac software for video editing is typically processed by Linux servers tooMar 13 22:53
MinceRwhere they put OK on the right (where someone who reads left to right looks last) and the other buttons in random orderMar 13 22:53
Balrog_schestowitz: I'm not sure about thatMar 13 22:53
MinceR(and by OK, i mean default confirm/action button :> )Mar 13 22:53
Balrog_but I do know that Linux is used for other stuff, not editingMar 13 22:54
MinceR(or whatever your favorite "experts" like to call it)Mar 13 22:54
Balrog_MinceR: I find it not-so-randomMar 13 22:54
MinceRyeah, linux isn't used for editing. i wonder what cinepaint is for, thenMar 13 22:54
_Hicham_AV is super great on LinuxMar 13 22:54
Balrog_what third-party programmers do is their businessMar 13 22:54
MinceRand why do studios keep claiming they use linux for editingMar 13 22:54
_Hicham_Avidemux for ExampleMar 13 22:55
Balrog_I meant, it is used, but not as widelyMar 13 22:55
_Hicham_it processes videos on the flyMar 13 22:55
MinceRooh, now we're in the vague unverifiable statements territoryMar 13 22:55
Balrog_cinepaint isn't considered exactly editing by the strict definitionMar 13 22:55
MinceRyeah, it's just magicMar 13 22:55
schestowitztrmanco: new wine, new linux -rcMar 13 22:56
MinceRas for apple's button ordering not being random -- sure, they have a couple of stupid rules, but all they end up doing is that...Mar 13 22:56
schestowitzBalrog: rendering and editingMar 13 22:56
trmancoschestowitz, yesMar 13 22:56
MinceR1) reading left to right (like a normal person using an english gui would) i find the confirm button lastMar 13 22:56
trmancoI forgot to mention thatMar 13 22:57
MinceR2) i generally want to do the actions i initiate so this wastes my timeMar 13 22:57
schestowitzBalrog: studios moved from UNIX (Solaris sometimes) to LinuxMar 13 22:57
MinceR3) and as an added bonus, they set off a random button to the left edge so it takes even more time to process)Mar 13 22:57
MinceRs/.$//Mar 13 22:57
schestowitzThey don't need Aqua and stuff to just run their high-end waresMar 13 22:57
schestowitzRHEL does the jobMar 13 22:57
schestowitzSame in IntelMar 13 22:57
MinceRall hail the "usability experts" who have managed to waste the user's time with a few clever rulesMar 13 22:57
schestowitzHCI reminds me of INNOVA~1Mar 13 22:58
schestowitzIn egenral, USABIL~1 is like INNOVA~1Mar 13 22:58
MinceRon the subject of usability, the menubar on the top is because they didn't interpret Fitt's law correctlyMar 13 22:58
schestowitzMan: "why should I buy your product?"Mar 13 22:58
MinceRyeahMar 13 22:59
schestowitzWoman salesment: "we offer innovation"Mar 13 22:59
MinceRm$ fanboys use the INNOVA~1 curse wordMar 13 22:59
schestowitz"it's more expensive because ity's intuitive"Mar 13 22:59
MinceRcrApple fanboys use the USABIL~1 curse wordMar 13 22:59
trmancoUSABILITY -> USABI#%Mar 13 22:59
schestowitzBallmer likes the INNOVA~1 junkMar 13 22:59
schestowitzThat guy Larry Cohen was feeding BillG and SweatyB this stuffMar 13 22:59
schestowitzYou see this in the talking points memo he prepared for themMar 13 22:59
schestowitzit's all makretingfMar 13 23:00
MinceRi don't know who Larry Cohen isMar 13 23:00
schestowitzI can find that memoMar 13 23:00
schestowitzvery funnyMar 13 23:00
schestowitzINNOVA~1 INNOVA~1 INNOVA~1 INNOVA~1 INNOVA~1 INNOVA~1 INNOVA~1 Mar 13 23:00
schestowitzMake no mistakeMar 13 23:00
schestowitzIt's deliberateMar 13 23:00
schestowitzit;s hypnosiusMar 13 23:00
schestowitzbrainwash if you likeMar 13 23:00
schestowitzThey need to recite it in interview and people believe itMar 13 23:00
schestowitzApple harps about "easy" Mar 13 23:00
schestowitzLinux... well, it's has  a 1337 imageMar 13 23:00
schestowitzWhcih doesn't appeal from a marketing standpointMar 13 23:01
schestowitzMinceR: search BNMar 13 23:01
schestowitzHe quite MS last monthMar 13 23:01
MinceRperhaps apple fanboys buy so heavily into that crap because they've spent more on itMar 13 23:01
schestowitz*quitMar 13 23:01
MinceR(i mean money)Mar 13 23:01
schestowitz 13 23:01
schestowitzIt's one of the marketing clownsMar 13 23:02
MinceRapple crap is expensive so they've got to justify the expenditure somehowMar 13 23:02
schestowitzHis role is to manage how MS comminuicted with the world that it robsMar 13 23:02
schestowitz"Talking points" memo here: Mar 13 23:02
schestowitz 13 23:02
schestowitzOops. 13 23:02
schestowitzHilariousMar 13 23:02
MinceRLarry Cohen stayed with his beloved Pearly thoughMar 13 23:02
MinceR(btw, another nifty thing i'd like to see major GUIs 'steal' from arthur/risc os is that the main menu is on right click)Mar 13 23:04
Balrog_main menu?Mar 13 23:04
MinceRwhat's the menu bar in most guisMar 13 23:05
schestowitzReport: Microsoft U.S. Search Share Hits 12-month Low < >Mar 13 23:07
schestowitzMinceR: of courseMar 13 23:07
schestowitzTHigher up the pyramidMar 13 23:07
schestowitz*HigherMar 13 23:07
schestowitz@trmanco : it's news when Gmail goes down (not normal for Wintel press), not when Hotmail goes down as it just did.Mar 13 23:09
MinceRwow, Panda Security has released a fix to a security hole that's been in all windows versions since 95 >> 13 23:09
schestowitzSTART me up!! Yeahhhhhhhhhhhhh :-)Mar 13 23:10
MinceR:)Mar 13 23:10
MinceRStart/Shutdown...Mar 13 23:10
schestowitz 13 23:11
schestowitzShut this man down :-)Mar 13 23:11
MinceRlock him upMar 13 23:11
MinceRmake him do work for once in his lifeMar 13 23:12
Balrog_come onMar 13 23:12
Balrog_you can disable that with tweakuiMar 13 23:13
schestowitz"COmon!!!"Mar 13 23:13
schestowitzGive it up..Mar 13 23:13
MinceRyes, and i can disble the rest of the security holes with dd or fsckMar 13 23:13
MinceRor a kubuntu install diskMar 13 23:13
MinceRs/sb/sab/Mar 13 23:13
Balrog_I'm stuck with people who require windowsMar 13 23:14
MinceRdoesn't change the fact that it's on by default and hard to disableMar 13 23:14
MinceRit's just like the iPoo DontTouch/jesusPhone thingMar 13 23:14
Balrog_???Mar 13 23:14
MinceRsure it can be hammered into something not entirely uselessMar 13 23:14
MinceRbut why bother if you can get superior products?Mar 13 23:14
Balrog_no, windows can'tMar 13 23:14
Balrog_I've tried in the past, but it's uselessMar 13 23:15
trmancoschestowitz, what can we do...Mar 13 23:17
trmancooh, that was a tweetMar 13 23:18
trmancojust saw itMar 13 23:18
schestowitzI'll post it to COLAMar 13 23:18
schestowitzThe Munckins will ignoreMar 13 23:18
schestowitz "According to Via, the VX855 supports Linux, Windows 7, Windows Vista, Windows XP.." WAIT wait wait... there IS. No. Windows. 7.Mar 13 23:20
trmancoUbuntu! Cool! Playtime!!!: 13 23:23
trmanco:)Mar 13 23:23
schestowitzyuck: 13 23:26
schestowitzmono devs there (packagers)Mar 13 23:26
schestowitzCheck out the mouseover effect they do here with CSS: 13 23:32
schestowitzI've looked at page sort, it looks quite elegant.Mar 13 23:32
_Hicham_moonlight is available in UbuntuMar 13 23:33
schestowitzIs Ubuntu Taking Over? Should I Follow? < >Mar 13 23:33
_Hicham_ 13 23:33
_Hicham_Roy : I think that Ubuntu will even help install moonlight as it does for flashMar 13 23:34
_Hicham_what do u think?Mar 13 23:36
_Hicham_Ubuntu is better than windows anywayMar 13 23:39
trmancoschestowitz, 13 23:39
trmancoyou can now post notices by emailMar 13 23:39
trmancoschestowitz, have a look at my tags now :-PMar 13 23:40
schestowitzI knowMar 13 23:41
schestowitzThey did maintenanceMar 13 23:42
schestowitzAfterwards I started getting mail alertsMar 13 23:42
trmancodeativate themMar 13 23:42
schestowitz_Hicham_: Microsoft uses Novell to poison LinuxMar 13 23:42
schestowitzCanonical takes the bait IMHOMar 13 23:42
trmancodeactivate "Send me email when someone sends me an "@-reply"."Mar 13 23:43
schestowitzJust left a comment in: 13 23:43
schestowitzIt annoyed me that he didn't just tell his readers what was REALLY happeningMar 13 23:43
schestowitzLenovo take Microsoft money to shaft LinuxMar 13 23:43
schestowitzThat's what's happeningMar 13 23:43
schestowitzAnd we have leaked proof of thisMar 13 23:44
schestowitztrmanco: no, I'm fine with alerts, they get filtered into a separate mail account and directoryMar 13 23:44
trmancoah okMar 13 23:44
balzac23:50 <@schestowitz> Canonical takes the bait IMHOMar 13 23:45
balzacRedhat too, wouldn't you say?Mar 13 23:45
balzacIt's as if they're both either ignorant, or afraid MS silverlie is going to catch on as a format, and they don't want to be incompatible with the "next flash"Mar 13 23:46
schestowitzI have good /. karmaMar 13 23:49
schestowitzI start at almost 5, I think.Mar 13 23:49
schestowitzbalzac: not quiteMar 13 23:49
schestowitzI hear from Red Hat peopleMar 13 23:49
schestowitz[H]omer_ has 'em scouring his siteMar 13 23:50
schestowitzThey still study with concernMar 13 23:50
schestowitzSame with RMS AFAIKMar 13 23:50
_Hicham_Roy : what would happen if Microsoft go bankrupt?Mar 13 23:50
schestowitzThey probably just don't want to: 1) alientate NovellMar 13 23:50
schestowitz2) leave spoiled users strandedMar 13 23:50
schestowitzSome people won't understand "there's a patent issue" or "it's not good to adopt .NET"Mar 13 23:51
schestowitzThey just "want things to work"Mar 13 23:51
schestowitzLinus Torvalds mentalityMar 13 23:51
schestowitz_Hicham_: big feastMar 13 23:51
schestowitzBut they'd get govt protection firstMar 13 23:51
schestowitzIt's a corrupt government thereMar 13 23:51
schestowitzThey also gave SGI a lielineMar 13 23:51
schestowitzFormerly Silicon GraphicsMar 13 23:51
schestowitzAnd Microsoft is trying to pry people's medical data off themMar 13 23:51
schestowitzFor this reasonMar 13 23:52
schestowitzNo Microsoft=medical messMar 13 23:52
schestowitzThey create entanglements in he systemMar 13 23:52
schestowitzBTW, just got this nice mail:Mar 13 23:52
_Hicham_Microsoft killed OpenGL on windows with their implementationMar 13 23:52
schestowitzRe: 13 23:52
schestowitz"I do like Novell, because they give lots of drivers to the FOSS community, stuff that no other company likes to do, but as Roy has ably pointed out, they made some unnecessary mistakes in this deal with Microsoft.  I think that as time goes by, more and more people will see the wisdom of many of Roy's criticisms of Novell, particularly as a result of this deal."Mar 13 23:52
schestowitz"We must hold up the mirror to our own community and see the mistakes that we have made, and Roy's efforts in this regard are a great service to the community.  And I do notice that there are less and less of the comments these days denigrating Roy's work and more and more people are taking him seriously. "Mar 13 23:52
schestowitz"I think that this story shifts just that much more weight over to Roy's side regarding the questionable wisdom of the Novell - Microsoft deal. "Mar 13 23:52
schestowitzThis was actually sent to a groupMar 13 23:52
schestowitz_Hicham_: yes, that was seen before the baby bastard called Vista got emitted from mothership's bellyMar 13 23:53
schestowitzSomething about implementation as abstraction under DX10Mar 13 23:53
schestowitzLike virtualisation in a way... or emulation... to use analogies.Mar 13 23:54
schestowitzThis discourages game developers who might *GASP* choose OpenGL, which works in other platformsMar 13 23:54
schestowitzLook at DirectX material in BNMar 13 23:54
schestowitzMicrosoft deliberately deviatedMar 13 23:54
schestowitzBecause they are anti-competitive shameless monstersMar 13 23:55
schestowitzOpenGL works on other platfforms?Mar 13 23:55
schestowitz"That's good for the consumer but bad for us. Let's sabotage that..."Mar 13 23:55
_Hicham_even though DX9 was eating the marketMar 13 23:56
schestowitz_Hicham_: start here: 13 23:56
schestowitzI gave many referencesMar 13 23:56
schestowitzIt's more difficult to refute when I don't throw statements out in the air.Mar 13 23:56
schestowitzFootnotes, refs, corss-citations for context, etc.Mar 13 23:57
schestowitzBN turned into quite a project with tens of thousands of external links and hundreds of courts exhibitsMar 13 23:57
schestowitz*CourtMar 13 23:57
schestowitzWatch the National Debt from the Command Line < > Blob required.Mar 13 23:59

Recent Techrights' Posts

Martina Ferrari & Debian, DebConf room list: who sleeps with who?
Reprinted with permission from Daniel Pocock
Europe Won't be Safe From Russia Until the Last Windows PC is Turned Off (or Switched to BSDs and GNU/Linux)
Lives are at stake
Links 23/04/2024: US Doubles Down on Patent Obviousness, North Korea Practices Nuclear Conflict
Links for the day
Stardust Nightclub Tragedy, Unlawful killing, Censorship & Debian Scapegoating
Reprinted with permission from Daniel Pocock
Microsoft is Shutting Down Offices and Studios (Microsoft Layoffs Every Month This Year, Media Barely Mentions These)
Microsoft shutting down more offices (there have been layoffs every month this year)
Balkan women & Debian sexism, WeBoob leaks
Reprinted with permission from
Links 24/04/2024: Advances in TikTok Ban, Microsoft Lacks Security Incentives (It Profits From Breaches)
Links for the day
Gemini Links 24/04/2024: People Returning to Gemlogs, Stateless Workstations
Links for the day
Meike Reichle & Debian Dating
Reprinted with permission from
Over at Tux Machines...
GNU/Linux news for the past day
IRC Proceedings: Tuesday, April 23, 2024
IRC logs for Tuesday, April 23, 2024
[Meme] EPO: Breaking the Law as a Business Model
Total disregard for the EPO to sell more monopolies in Europe (to companies that are seldom European and in need of monopoly)
The EPO's Central Staff Committee (CSC) on New Ways of Working (NWoW) and “Bringing Teams Together” (BTT)
The latest publication from the Central Staff Committee (CSC)
Volunteers wanted: Unknown Suspects team
Reprinted with permission from Daniel Pocock
Debian trademark: where does the value come from?
Reprinted with permission from Daniel Pocock
Detecting suspicious transactions in the Wikimedia grants process
Reprinted with permission from Daniel Pocock
Gunnar Wolf & Debian Modern Slavery punishments
Reprinted with permission from Daniel Pocock
On DebConf and Debian 'Bedroom Nepotism' (Connected to Canonical, Red Hat, and Google)
Why the public must know suppressed facts (which women themselves are voicing concerns about; some men muzzle them to save face)
Several Years After Vista 11 Came Out Few People in Africa Use It, Its Relative Share Declines (People Delete It and Move to BSD/GNU/Linux?)
These trends are worth discussing
Canonical, Ubuntu & Debian DebConf19 Diversity Girls email
Reprinted with permission from
Links 23/04/2024: Escalations Around Poland, Microsoft Shares Dumped
Links for the day
Gemini Links 23/04/2024: Offline PSP Media Player and OpenBSD on ThinkPad
Links for the day
Amaya Rodrigo Sastre, Holger Levsen & Debian DebConf6 fight
Reprinted with permission from
DebConf8: who slept with who? Rooming list leaked
Reprinted with permission from
Bruce Perens & Debian: swiping the Open Source trademark
Reprinted with permission from
Ean Schuessler & Debian SPI OSI trademark disputes
Reprinted with permission from
Windows in Sudan: From 99.15% to 2.12%
With conflict in Sudan, plus the occasional escalation/s, buying a laptop with Vista 11 isn't a high priority
Anatomy of a Cancel Mob Campaign
how they go about
[Meme] The 'Cancel Culture' and Its 'Hit List'
organisers are being contacted by the 'cancel mob'
Richard Stallman's Next Public Talk is on Friday, 17:30 in Córdoba (Spain), FSF Cannot Mention It
Any attempt to marginalise founders isn't unprecedented as a strategy
IRC Proceedings: Monday, April 22, 2024
IRC logs for Monday, April 22, 2024
Over at Tux Machines...
GNU/Linux news for the past day
Don't trust me. Trust the voters.
Reprinted with permission from Daniel Pocock
Chris Lamb & Debian demanded Ubuntu censor my blog
Reprinted with permission from
Ean Schuessler, Branden Robinson & Debian SPI accounting crisis
Reprinted with permission from
William Lee Irwin III, Michael Schultheiss & Debian, Oracle, Russian kernel scandal
Reprinted with permission from
Microsoft's Windows Down to 8% in Afghanistan According to statCounter Data
in Vietnam Windows is at 8%, in Iraq 4.9%, Syria 3.7%, and Yemen 2.2%
[Meme] Only Criminals Would Want to Use Printers?
The EPO's war on paper
EPO: We and Microsoft Will Spy on Everything (No Physical Copies)
The letter is dated last Thursday
Links 22/04/2024: Windows Getting Worse, Oligarch-Owned Media Attacking Assange Again
Links for the day
Links 21/04/2024: LINUX Unplugged and 'Screen Time' as the New Tobacco
Links for the day
Gemini Links 22/04/2024: Health Issues and Online Documentation
Links for the day
What Fake News or Botspew From Microsoft Looks Like... (Also: Techrights to Invest 500 Billion in Datacentres by 2050!)
Sededin Dedovic (if that's a real name) does Microsoft stenography
Stefano Maffulli's (and Microsoft's) Openwashing Slant Initiative (OSI) Report Was Finalised a Few Months Ago, Revealing Only 3% of the Money Comes From Members/People
Microsoft's role remains prominent (for OSI to help the attack on the GPL and constantly engage in promotion of proprietary GitHub)
[Meme] Master Engineer, But Only They Can Say It
One can conclude that "inclusive language" is a community-hostile trolling campaign
[Meme] It Takes Three to Grant a Monopoly, Or... Injunction Against Staff Representatives
Quality control
[Video] EPO's "Heart of Staff Rep" Has a Heartless New Rant
The wordplay is just for fun
An Unfortunate Miscalculation Of Capital
Reprinted with permission from Andy Farnell
[Video] Online Brigade Demands That the Person Who Started GNU/Linux is Denied Public Speaking (and Why FSF Cannot Mention His Speeches)
So basically the attack on RMS did not stop; even when he's ill with cancer the cancel culture will try to cancel him, preventing him from talking (or be heard) about what he started in 1983
Online Brigade Demands That the Person Who Made Nix Leaves Nix for Not Censoring People 'Enough'
Trying to 'nix' the founder over alleged "safety" of so-called 'minorities'
[Video] Inauthentic Sites and Our Upcoming Publications
In the future, at least in the short term, we'll continue to highlight Debian issues
List of Debian Suicides & Accidents
Reprinted with permission from
Jens Schmalzing & Debian: rooftop fall, inaccurately described as accident
Reprinted with permission from
[Teaser] EPO Leaks About EPO Leaks
Yo dawg!
On Wednesday IBM Announces 'Results' (Partial; Bad Parts Offloaded Later) and Red Hat Has Layoffs Anniversary
There's still expectation that Red Hat will make more staff cuts
IBM: We Are No Longer Pro-Nazi (Not Anymore)
Historically, IBM has had a nazi problem
Bad faith: attacking a volunteer at a time of grief, disrespect for the sanctity of human life
Reprinted with permission from Daniel Pocock
Bad faith: how many Debian Developers really committed suicide?
Reprinted with permission from Daniel Pocock
Over at Tux Machines...
GNU/Linux news for the past day
IRC Proceedings: Sunday, April 21, 2024
IRC logs for Sunday, April 21, 2024
A History of Frivolous Filings and Heavy Drug Use
So the militant was psychotic due to copious amounts of marijuana
Bad faith: suicide, stigma and tarnishing
Reprinted with permission from Daniel Pocock
UDRP Legitimate interests: EU whistleblower directive, workplace health & safety concerns
Reprinted with permission from Daniel Pocock