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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: April 3rd, 2009 - Part 3

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iwmwyou just said indefinitely that "he and his partner"Apr 03 17:04
schestowitzYes, not married yetApr 03 17:05
schestowitzHe's straight, as am IApr 03 17:05
schestowitzBut here in the UK they say "partner"Apr 03 17:05
iwmw... makes no senseApr 03 17:05
iwmwsaying "partner"Apr 03 17:05
schestowitzWhich I find odd because of matrimony terminology that changesApr 03 17:05
_Hicham_parnter, :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:DApr 03 17:05
schestowitziwmw: well, that's what it's called in the UKApr 03 17:06
_Hicham_the UK is weirdApr 03 17:06
schestowitzEven for heterogeneous couples.Apr 03 17:06
iwmwyeah, uk seems to go the wrong wayApr 03 17:06
schestowitzIn the UK we have "Virgin Mobile"Apr 03 17:06
iwmwwtf is dat?Apr 03 17:06
_Hicham_do u have gay marriage in the UK?Apr 03 17:06
schestowitz_Hicham_: I think soApr 03 17:06
iwmwwtfApr 03 17:06
joseschestowitz, i found itApr 03 17:07
schestowitzActually, that is the case, but I don't know what welfare is offeredApr 03 17:07
josethe analogy was "horses out of the barn"Apr 03 17:07
jose>> The .NET framework contains the latest developer platform for the future, and it must be licensed like Windows. Subsets have gone about as far as they should go in the standards bodies, but we need a compact subset for phones and TVs. It was noted that we have to be careful because once the horses are out, they are out forever. At the right royalty, we can have discussions around technology beyond this.Apr 03 17:07
PetoKrausit's not marriageApr 03 17:07
PetoKrausit's registered partnershipApr 03 17:07
schestowitzjose: when is it from?Apr 03 17:07
schestowitzComes?Apr 03 17:07
jose1999Apr 03 17:08
schestowitzjose: is it the Alex thread?Apr 03 17:08
iwmw.net... the latest dev platform for the future..Apr 03 17:08
schestowitzWith Amir?Apr 03 17:08
iwmwit's a jokeApr 03 17:08
schestowitzCause I think I have it as textApr 03 17:08
schestowitzAbout Linux haveing over 50%Apr 03 17:08
josei understand horses to mean patent grants.. but it can be trade secrets and everything else IPApr 03 17:08
josehttp://meandubuntu.wordpress.com/ms-and-floss/Apr 03 17:09
schestowitzjose: I have the textApr 03 17:09
schestowitzI see it in http://meandubuntu.wordpress.com/...Apr 03 17:09
schestowitzhttp://boycottnovell.com/2009/01/11/mi...Apr 03 17:09
josethat particular email had a lot of juicy bitsApr 03 17:09
Omar87schestowitz: Have you heard of Jay Freeman?Apr 03 17:10
schestowitzBBC fined €£150k over Manuelgate < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009... >Apr 03 17:10
schestowitzOmar87: no.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ste...Apr 03 17:11
Omar87schestowitz: He's a genius!!Apr 03 17:12
schestowitzBalrog: http://www.tmcnet.com/usubmit/-carn...  (Carnegie Mellon tries to buck sliding trend of women studying computer science)Apr 03 17:12
Omar87schestowitz: But I'm not talking about the one you posted.Apr 03 17:12
schestowitzOmar87: this guy? http://www.saurik.com/id/1Apr 03 17:13
Omar87schestowitz: I'm talking about the one who pwned the iPhone with his Cydia.Apr 03 17:13
Omar87schestowitz: Yup, that guy. ;)Apr 03 17:13
schestowitzThat would be him, then.Apr 03 17:13
schestowitzNew Microsoft Office vulnerability already exploited: http://www.heise.de/english...Apr 03 17:17
schestowitzI'm rarely a GNOME users these days, but 3.0 looks promising: http://www.heise.de/english/n...Apr 03 17:18
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_Hicham_great is they move to webkitApr 03 17:19
schestowitzrumours months ago said the same about mozilaApr 03 17:20
joseschestowitz, thanks.. i'll be leaving soon.Apr 03 17:22
schestowitzBloomberg concurs with NYT's assessment about IBM buying Sun: http://www.denverpost.com/busin...Apr 03 17:22
schestowitzWhat will this mean to OOo vs Symphony?Apr 03 17:22
joseooo is the better brand and productApr 03 17:22
joseit's updatedApr 03 17:22
josehow about mysql?Apr 03 17:23
joseibm has a ton of dbsApr 03 17:23
josenow +1Apr 03 17:23
schestowitzThey still miss the point about race to zero _for acquit ion_, not service, maintenance, etc... *sigh* http://ostatic.com/blog/does-open-source-... It's the same for book publishers and papersApr 03 17:24
joseif ibm doesn't invest similarly to sun, people will likely forkApr 03 17:25
schestowitzjose: but OOo has already been grabed by MSApr 03 17:25
schestowitzOO-XMLApr 03 17:25
schestowitzOr go-OOXMLApr 03 17:25
schestowitzThey can try to use Novell to play with *GPL and compete with the /real/ OOoApr 03 17:25
schestowitzNovell will be their slavesApr 03 17:25
josethat's just a fork.. to add MS's embracing into itApr 03 17:25
josethat can do that to any product out there .. will do that to any foss product that gains tractionsApr 03 17:26
jose(drop last "s")Apr 03 17:26
*schestowitz on phoneApr 03 17:26
schestowitzIBM Sun acquisition to be announced today? < http://blog.internetnews.com/skerne... >Apr 03 17:32
Balrogschestowitz: did you see the thing that happenen in France? http://news.slashdot.org/article.pl?si...Apr 03 17:34
schestowitzyesApr 03 17:37
schestowitzhttp://opendotdotdot.blogspot.com/2009...Apr 03 17:37
schestowitzStealing Commodities  http://www.schneier.com/blog/archiv...Apr 03 17:39
schestowitz"According to Google Analytics, 7.04 percent of the visitors to Cutts's own blog (during the last 30 days) used Chrome.  " http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2009/04/03/... Does Google Analytics disclose global numbers for the servuce? If so, it would be comprehensive, but still JS-dependent  (thus discriminating against Linux)Apr 03 17:42
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schestowitz"Don't forget about Microsoft buying Novell and now owns the copyright to Unix and will use this to disband Linux." < http://news.cnet.com/8301-17... >Apr 03 17:47
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joseschestowitz, http://www.linuxtoday.com/infrastruc... quoted some interesting things. you may have already gone over that (100 times). I added comments. but there is one thing i wanted to bring up...Apr 03 18:26
joseMicrosoft may change the internal components and add to it, but it seems that they have remained with dotnet for a long time and will continue to invest in that general framework.Apr 03 18:27
joseif so, this would coincide with their major patent push/investmentsApr 03 18:27
josei don't think that is coincidence.Apr 03 18:28
joseand to refresh mind, look at this comment for some ms quotes http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story...Apr 03 18:28
zer0c00ltoo bad :( http://twitter.com/StudentPartnersApr 03 18:28
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schestowitz*ping* MinceR http://www.realdeal.hu/20090403/minist...Apr 03 18:29
zer0c00ltheir latest twitter update "Fun, fun, fun. How to distribute 560 Office 2007 Trial among students?"Apr 03 18:29
schestowitz"Under a general agreement on public procurement procedures, the same amount will be allocated for the acquisition of Microsoft and Novell products as for open source software, said Ferenc Baja. The sum available is 12 billion forints each, he added."Apr 03 18:29
schestowitzjose: MS adds dresses to the Trojan horsesApr 03 18:30
schestowitzIf people shout, they'll put more lipstick on the horse (Trojan)Apr 03 18:30
josecarla's piece quotes someone talking about ms' continual changing of framework details.. or at least of coming up with new monikers on a regular basisApr 03 18:30
schestowitzUntil people are kept stupid and swallow the poison pillApr 03 18:30
schestowitzMS won't bark until it's spread widelyApr 03 18:31
schestowitzLike  FATApr 03 18:31
schestowitzEven in embeddedApr 03 18:31
schestowitzMono is not yet big in embeddedApr 03 18:31
schestowitzMS wants all mobile Linux to run Mono tooApr 03 18:31
schestowitzThen, it'll turn the tablesApr 03 18:31
joseit's not big in foss worldApr 03 18:31
Omar87lol!Apr 03 18:31
schestowitzCarla doesn't like monoApr 03 18:31
schestowitzBut she;s LT editorApr 03 18:31
schestowitzSo she has to seem impartialApr 03 18:31
Omar87There's a funny story my friend has just told me..Apr 03 18:32
schestowitzzer0c00l: MS astroturfs twitterApr 03 18:32
josei expected she wouldn't link to your april 1st story.. and she didn't.. probably a good call even though i thought it was funnyApr 03 18:32
schestowitzSee some recent posts in BN about itApr 03 18:32
Omar87The .NET club at my previous university is arranging a meeting on Tuesday.Apr 03 18:32
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josewhat is the usual person's motivation to partake or start a dotnet club?Apr 03 18:34
Omar87When I read about that I got kind of disgusted, but my friend told that they actually him and the chairman of the club (who's also my friend) not only don't use Windows, they don't even use .NET itself! :DApr 03 18:34
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Omar87but my friend told "me" that..Apr 03 18:35
Omar87But they kept the name ".NET club" because that's only thing allowed in the university.Apr 03 18:36
schestowitzNew "Novell" video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJBis6-HeqIApr 03 18:36
_Hicham_MS want to port everything to .NETApr 03 18:36
schestowitzYesApr 03 18:36
schestowitz.MSApr 03 18:36
_Hicham_there will .NET version of everyoneApr 03 18:36
schestowitzOn the NETApr 03 18:36
_Hicham_schestowitz.NETApr 03 18:36
Omar87They tried their best to start a different club, but their efforts all went in vein.Apr 03 18:36
schestowitzLuckily, they failApr 03 18:36
schestowitzSo they pay Novell to shill for themApr 03 18:37
Omar87lolApr 03 18:37
schestowitzThe danger is that people don't realise that Novell is just anti-Java weaponApr 03 18:37
Omar87schestowitz: If not even anti-FOSS all together.. -_-Apr 03 18:37
schestowitzFOSS the MS wayApr 03 18:38
schestowitz.NETApr 03 18:38
schestowitzSilver  Lie..Apr 03 18:38
schestowitzYou get the picApr 03 18:38
Omar87Exactly.Apr 03 18:39
_Hicham_Java was is gonna kill themApr 03 18:39
schestowitzIBM's JavaApr 03 18:39
_Hicham_that is why they spend all of that money to create .NETApr 03 18:39
schestowitzIt'll have more resourcesApr 03 18:39
schestowitz+Eclipse (IBM)Apr 03 18:39
schestowitzMicrosoft is poisoning Eclipse too, thoughApr 03 18:39
Omar87And, MS's FOSS can be simply summed up two words "No FOSS".Apr 03 18:39
schestowitzIt's POSSApr 03 18:40
_Hicham_IBM is the official sponsor of Java, and not SunApr 03 18:40
schestowitzNot "peace of shitty shit"Apr 03 18:40
schestowitz*pieceApr 03 18:40
josejava and msftApr 03 18:40
schestowitzBut "Pseudo open source softare"Apr 03 18:40
joseon yahoo delayed quotes.. they were each at 18.74 for a little while just nowApr 03 18:40
schestowitzNOVL just been downgradedeApr 03 18:41
josenot significant but kind of like a solar eclipseApr 03 18:41
schestowitzI'll post about itApr 03 18:41
zer0c00lOmar87, : In my school they started it as Microsoft .Net campus club, then now they are using innocent kids to spread virtually all software stolen by M$Apr 03 18:42
_Hicham_Eclipse vs Visual StudioApr 03 18:42
josewonder if the prices crossed at some other pointApr 03 18:42
_Hicham_can Eclipse beat Visual Studio?Apr 03 18:42
MinceRschestowitz: pongApr 03 18:43
zer0c00l_Hicham_, why can't?Apr 03 18:43
Omar87zer0c00l: Yeah.Apr 03 18:44
_Hicham_I don't know, just askingApr 03 18:44
MinceRschestowitz: so they've still locked up 12 billion for microsoftApr 03 18:44
MinceRi guess ballmer could only afford half the bribe this timeApr 03 18:45
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Omar87zer0c00l: Unfortunately, just the right strategy to hypnotize the minds of little kids, no wonder how we find this number of M$ dolls everywhere in the world..Apr 03 18:45
schestowitzMinceR: maybe they'll merge with NovellApr 03 18:47
schestowitzIt's like they invest in the same companies... 2 being the sameApr 03 18:47
MinceRindeedApr 03 18:47
schestowitz.NETApr 03 18:47
schestowitzAnyway it goes Apr 03 18:47
MinceRbut i thought it was 12 billion for m$+novell and 12 billion for FLOSSApr 03 18:47
schestowitzHaApr 03 18:47
MinceRit would be funny if someone else bought novellApr 03 18:48
schestowitzPredictableApr 03 18:48
schestowitzewwek survey sez soApr 03 18:48
schestowitzMost likely tech company not to survive 2009: NovellApr 03 18:48
schestowitzWould make my 'job' (hobby) easierApr 03 18:48
schestowitzJust tracking the name banner, e.g. "Microsoft"Apr 03 18:48
MinceR:)Apr 03 18:50
balzacschestowitz: you know they'd get some money invested and keep a skeleton crew just to stay in business like SCOApr 03 18:54
balzacBut it would be nice to see Novell completely marginalized and irrelevant like SCOApr 03 18:54
balzacYou don't hear much from the Darl McBride anymore.Apr 03 18:55
schestowitzbalzac: yeah, something like that..Apr 03 19:01
schestowitzJust keep the MSFTers in palceApr 03 19:01
schestowitzTo spread the MonoApr 03 19:01
schestowitzNovell has already fired many of the Germans (SUSE coders)Apr 03 19:01
schestowitzbalzac: McBribe[sic] is in the shadows now. GL hardly mentions him.Apr 03 19:01
balzacThose devs can do penance by coding for the Hurd Kernel for 3 months each.Apr 03 19:02
balzacjkApr 03 19:02
_Hicham_they will be employed by redhat for sureApr 03 19:04
schestowitzAyeApr 03 19:05
schestowitzLikely....Apr 03 19:05
schestowitzWeaken Novell=strengthen Red HatApr 03 19:05
schestowitz=Move Novell devs to Red hatApr 03 19:05
schestowitz[and away from the patent treason]Apr 03 19:05
balzacyepApr 03 19:05
schestowitzThat's the idea anyway. Let Novell rot with its 'interop' dealApr 03 19:06
MinceRhow can we move RH away from patent treason?Apr 03 19:06
balzacwash the "white hand of Sauron" off their foreheadsApr 03 19:06
schestowitzLinspire has been dead for almost a year nowApr 03 19:06
MinceRespecially after they pushed sw patents in the EU?Apr 03 19:06
schestowitzWe can mark the anniversary in 2 months and 3 weeksApr 03 19:06
schestowitzDid you see the Linspire storm?Apr 03 19:06
schestowitzCheck out the latest from Linspire: http://kevincarmony.blogspot.com/2... Meow!Apr 03 19:07
balzacMinceR: civil disobedienceApr 03 19:07
balzacinfringe on their patents in a way which breaks their indemnification agreementApr 03 19:07
balzacmake a proprietary infringement to step outside RH's indemnification protection zoneApr 03 19:08
balzacmake any kind of infringement to offend MS/NovellApr 03 19:08
MinceRi don't quite understandApr 03 19:08
balzacand make it clear that you're doing it on purposeApr 03 19:08
balzacinfringe on software patent claims deliberately in whatever way is required to call the bluff of their legal threat.Apr 03 19:09
joseToo bad this posting http://boycottnovell.com/2009/0... has 5 out of 10 stars. [i'm pretending to be on the gullible side]Apr 03 19:17
MinceRwait... RH has an indemnification agreement with somebody?Apr 03 19:20
balzacMinceR: their agreement protects everyone who doesn't use GPLv3Apr 03 19:20
balzacwho does, i meanApr 03 19:21
balzacok don't know exactlyApr 03 19:21
MinceRthat sounds pretty evilApr 03 19:21
balzacbut software patents are crap and first civil disobedience should be used to prove the ridiculousness of the proprietary covenantApr 03 19:21
MinceRbut it does fall in line with RH's sw patent maniaApr 03 19:21
balzacand then civil disobedience should be used to prove the ridiculousness of the FOSS patent collective covenants as wellApr 03 19:22
balzacno software patents at allApr 03 19:22
joseanything new and interesting about conficker?Apr 03 19:23
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schestowitzjose: millions of PCs are infectedApr 03 19:33
josei'm curious about the new instructions the bots were going to be receivingApr 03 19:34
schestowitzMaybe it's Microsoft experiment with supercomputingApr 03 19:42
schestowitzGot to do some testing before taking on Linux on BlueGene, no?Apr 03 19:43
joseInstruction #1: popup message "did you hear? Windows just took over the #1 spot in supercomputing; it also has a lower TCO; click here for the full scoop"Apr 03 19:50
joseif they tell enough people the scoop enough times, they will take the supercomputing title. that's their plan.Apr 03 19:51
joseplan b is to buy out top500 website.. or whoever owns the top spot.Apr 03 19:52
joseplan c is to sue all linux-using entrants.Apr 03 19:54
schestowitzjose: I do a post that quotes youApr 03 19:57
schestowitzCan you proofread with me?Apr 03 19:57
josewhat is the linkApr 03 19:57
schestowitzjose: read http://boycottnovell.com/2009/04/03/m...Apr 03 20:03
joselet me say this.. if certain people are awake, you will get some criticism that "sun supports ooxml" etc.Apr 03 20:06
jose"Microsoft has already used Novell to harm ODF, which Sun and IBM promote."Apr 03 20:07
joseI was going to say that Dan might bring up again proof on patents usable against mono...Apr 03 20:08
josebut some of those comments certain suggest Microsoft has their plans.Apr 03 20:09
jose"Another is the patent trap which Mono has become, as Jose explained in this LinuxToday comment that cites private E-mails from Microsoft."Apr 03 20:09
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taconels -lApr 03 20:09
schestowitzC:\>Apr 03 20:09
josethat Lt reply is about microsoft stating the key value in patents/ip to protect against clonesApr 03 20:09
taconeschestowitz: lolApr 03 20:10
joseso that might be a decent rebuttalApr 03 20:10
schestowitzjose: is that a typo corrected?Apr 03 20:10
josenopeApr 03 20:10
schestowitz\Because I've been lenient recently and proofread poorly.Apr 03 20:11
josei couldn't help but anticipate the reader comment discussionApr 03 20:11
schestowitzAll the posts about mono get flooded by mono fansApr 03 20:11
schestowitzI can't help b but wondering if they use communication means to send some opposition so these posts. It used to be like this with GNOME.Apr 03 20:12
josesorry schestowitz, but no typos or similar errors caught my attention.Apr 03 20:13
schestowitzThat's good, I'm surprisedApr 03 20:13
josesome things might not be correct grammatically but i'm not one to know for sureApr 03 20:14
schestowitzjose: site traffic more than doubled and I suspect that TomTom woke some people upApr 03 20:14
schestowitzThe whole "ignore stupid patents" attitude it no moreApr 03 20:14
joseyeah, you mean microsoft actually sued!!!!Apr 03 20:14
schestowitzNow is the time to fight them, not to ignore themApr 03 20:15
joseand for garbage like fat sillinessApr 03 20:15
schestowitzYes, Microsoft showed its new business modeApr 03 20:15
josethat was a great move on their partApr 03 20:15
schestowitzAs applied to FOSS, not just Xerox, Apple, IBM...Apr 03 20:15
schestowitzjose: it wasApr 03 20:15
schestowitzSee GroklawApr 03 20:15
schestowitzNo "New Microsoft"Apr 03 20:15
jose\/sarcasmApr 03 20:16
schestowitzFOSS developers are watchingApr 03 20:16
schestowitzFAT!=LinuxApr 03 20:16
schestowitzFAT = Microsoft interchangeApr 03 20:16
schestowitzFAT = 'API'Apr 03 20:16
schestowitzWithout APIs, you can't safely develop with/for WindowsApr 03 20:16
schestowitzAs long as you're small, you might get away with itApr 03 20:17
josems has simple choices: drop their lawsuit aggression and any advantage they think comes with it.. or show their teeth and deal with those consequences.Apr 03 20:17
schestowitzAs long as you're small enough to sue without legal challenge (like TomTom), you'll be forced to payApr 03 20:17
schestowitzPeople must stop enriching the Windows ecosystemApr 03 20:17
schestowitzjose: the deal id knowApr 03 20:17
schestowitzSee GroklawApr 03 20:18
schestowitzhttp://www.groklaw.net/article.ph...Apr 03 20:18
schestowitz"Two notices of dismissal have been filed with the courts -- Microsoft's in Washington State, and TomTom's in Virginia, each dismissed without prejudice, ending both patent litigations. "Without prejudice" means that either could ramp it up and do this some more in the future, should circumstances arise that made it necessary. But in most cases, it means the litigation, or whatever, is over."Apr 03 20:18
josei was interested in the groklaw stories you wrote about but i got sidetracked and didn't get to them.Apr 03 20:18
schestowitzI have a megapost about TomTom comungApr 03 20:18
schestowitzLots of work on it requiredApr 03 20:18
josei'll be super busy the next day and a half to 2 daysApr 03 20:19
joseregularly busy thereafterApr 03 20:19
joseprobably won't log on tomorrowApr 03 20:19
josebut i was going to say.. you can always email and if i check in time and have time i can look a post over (pref for limited cases since i doubt i'll spend too much time proofing).Apr 03 20:20
schestowitzhttp://techdirt.com/articles/20... (MIT Police Suspended For Trashing Student Newspaper)Apr 03 20:21
schestowitzThere's no busy affair  over the horizonApr 03 20:22
schestowitzNo major release that I know of anyway. The IBM deal --if true -- has already been digested by manyApr 03 20:22
schestowitzIt seems likely that Novell will stick close to Microsoft as time goes by. http://boycottnovell.com/2009/04/0...Apr 03 20:24
josei would like to see novell snap out of that, but their strategy probably runs too deeply and those carrying it out are probably too committed (eg, really really like ms).Apr 03 20:27
josethe future will tellApr 03 20:27
josedid you catch this quote:Apr 03 20:28
josefrom 1998Apr 03 20:28
jose>> Linux is a cult that captures the best-and-brightest kids. [...] The Linux cult views Solaris as bad and Windows as evil or stupid. [...] Linux is a huge training group and experimental laboratory for Solaris. Suggestion: We need to find and analog to create a “cult” of core windows developers.Apr 03 20:28
josethey probably weren't thinking exclusively about getting foss or nonfoss devs.Apr 03 20:29
schestowitzYes, got it alreadyApr 03 20:29
schestowitzFirefox has a following tooApr 03 20:29
schestowitzNot exactly GNU-likeApr 03 20:29
josethe connection to the mono gang is something i couldn't help consideringApr 03 20:29
schestowitzAlso following from USERSApr 03 20:29
schestowitzjose: mono gang has MS-hooksApr 03 20:29
schestowitzI didn't know until recently that Nat Friedman is a MS employeeApr 03 20:30
schestowitzHe worked there for a long timeApr 03 20:30
schestowitzThen he hooked up with the guy who tried to work for Microsoft. They made some biznizApr 03 20:30
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schestowitzSo let's put it this wayApr 03 20:30
schestowitzPutting Miguel asideApr 03 20:30
schestowitzNat has friends at MicrosoftApr 03 20:30
schestowitzSome seniors tooApr 03 20:31
schestowitzWhat is the likelihood there they have some agreement on some thingsApr 03 20:31
schestowitzLike ".NET is the future"Apr 03 20:31
schestowitzAnd all that malarkeyApr 03 20:31
schestowitzWhy wouldn't an MS employee choose .NET for Ximian as a startup?Apr 03 20:31
schestowitzMaybe there's some history tight there.Apr 03 20:31
schestowitzNat is bossing some people at NovellApr 03 20:32
schestowitzIt's like putting MS in chargeApr 03 20:32
schestowitzAnd Novell appointed other MS executives for high positionsApr 03 20:32
schestowitzIt's not as bad as vmware yetApr 03 20:32
schestowitz*LOL* http://video.google.com/vide...Apr 03 20:34
joseof course i suspect that miguel "i didn't get into ms" might have gotten a much better offer...Apr 03 20:35
josebut those details shouldn't matter.Apr 03 20:36
josewithout proof there is not much thereApr 03 20:36
josepeople can always imagine this sort of thing might be happeningApr 03 20:36
schestowitzNothing needs to 'happen'Apr 03 20:36
schestowitzIt's just common courtesyApr 03 20:36
schestowitzHe's still buddies with themApr 03 20:36
_Hicham_Miguel is a real shame for Linux CommunityApr 03 20:37
schestowitzThey wrapped him up with a blanket and use him to ruin FOSS nowApr 03 20:37
josei'd rather not make this sort of stuff personal.Apr 03 20:38
josein any case, people will be known by their actions.Apr 03 20:38
josewe can just criticize those actionsApr 03 20:38
_Hicham_jose : it is not personalApr 03 20:38
josethe novell people have left many holesApr 03 20:39
_Hicham_it is the actionsApr 03 20:39
_Hicham_we are talking about the actionsApr 03 20:39
joseif we speculate on people, it can get ugly and unfair (especially if we are wrong)Apr 03 20:39
josei'm talking about speculating too much in publicApr 03 20:39
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schestowitzGreen Initiatives Save More than the Environment < http://www.itbusinessedge.com/cm/blogs... >Apr 03 20:39
schestowitzjose: that's exactly what I do --criticise by actionApr 03 20:40
schestowitzSome people delve into personal lifeApr 03 20:40
schestowitzLike, we've had people speak about him mom and dad and calling him gayApr 03 20:40
schestowitzBut most people talk about mono and motives Apr 03 20:40
schestowitzThat's not personalApr 03 20:40
schestowitzThat's his professional deedsApr 03 20:40
joseschestowitz, i have some work to do and want to be able to get to bed early.Apr 03 20:42
josei find out about sun and anything else sunday or mondayApr 03 20:42
schestowitz"IBM Near Deal to Buy Sun for Lower Price - Wall Street Journal"Apr 03 20:42
schestowitzjose: just one thingApr 03 20:43
josei'll find out...Apr 03 20:43
joseoneApr 03 20:43
schestowitzMy criticisms are not personalApr 03 20:43
schestowitzNotice that I talk about actionsApr 03 20:43
schestowitzTrolls in USENET dig into personal lives and MAKE STUFF UP..... intentionally... libelApr 03 20:43
schestowitzBut that's to be expected from the likes of MicrosoftApr 03 20:43
josefwiw, i was talking about speculating on miguel.. and i wasn't talking about you..Apr 03 20:43
schestowitzThey smear as part of the business modelApr 03 20:44
jose..or about anyoneApr 03 20:44
schestowitzvs companies ->FUDApr 03 20:44
schestowitzvs resistors -> smearsApr 03 20:44
schestowitzSpeculation is another matterApr 03 20:44
schestowitzNot personalApr 03 20:44
schestowitzProfessional but lacking certaintyApr 03 20:44
schestowitzYou can still judge a person by his motives where they seem obviousApr 03 20:44
joseright, but what do you do about people that will be turned off.Apr 03 20:45
schestowitzAnd for Novell, to bury Mono is an impossibilityApr 03 20:45
joseevidence quiets people or even converts themApr 03 20:45
schestowitzLikewise for NovellApr 03 20:45
schestowitzThey are too deeplty invested in itApr 03 20:45
schestowitzThey also have contracts with MicrosoftApr 03 20:45
josebut speculation can lead to many enemies and upset people and etcApr 03 20:45
josetoo deep is probably rightApr 03 20:45
josemy comments sometimes sound very bold (i don't always say "i think" IMO etc)Apr 03 20:46
josebut i don't mind too much if i keep it to corporationsApr 03 20:46
joseor to general thingsApr 03 20:47
joseanyway, i got onto this tangent because of that quote about ms wanting to tap into the linux community approachApr 03 20:48
joseok, will go soon enoughApr 03 20:48
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schestowitzESR does it again :-( http://www.opensource.org/node/415Apr 03 20:56
schestowitzNovell bought by Microsoft is still Llikely to be true. Novell was voted the least likely technology company to survive 2009 (eWeek survey, 2009), so this is no joke.Apr 03 21:01
_Hicham_why MS will buy Novell?Apr 03 21:02
_Hicham_this is unlikely to happen ...Apr 03 21:03
_Hicham_I don't think so, MS will never do such a bad movApr 03 21:03
_Hicham_moveApr 03 21:03
schestowitzYou never know....Apr 03 21:05
_Hicham_MS don't want direct trouble with Linux communityApr 03 21:06
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joseschestowitz, thought of an analogyApr 03 21:06
josethe link provided earlier today here about thieves stealing iron and copper and steal etc..Apr 03 21:07
josefrom schneier i thinkApr 03 21:07
schestowitz_Hicham_: Novell is a cheap takover targetApr 03 21:07
schestowitzJust a couple of billiobsApr 03 21:07
josemicrosoft is like those thievesApr 03 21:07
josethey spot odd conditions in society and exploit them to the last dropApr 03 21:08
joseok, the analogy is stretchedApr 03 21:08
schestowitzThe ones who dumpster-dived for code?Apr 03 21:08
joseyeah, that is straight "stealing of IP" .. no analogy needed thereApr 03 21:09
josemicrosoft helped lead to re-evaluation of stock options accounting rulesApr 03 21:11
josethey probably played a key role in leading to foss being seen to save us from lock-in and monopoliesApr 03 21:12
joseand may help show the foolishness of sw patentsApr 03 21:12
_Hicham_Microsoft is to stop Encarta service : http://encarta.msn.com/gu...Apr 03 21:12
josemany other companies tap into the weak laws but don't go full out.Apr 03 21:12
schestowitz"I would suggest you to shift to linux ASAP. More update on my Linux experience soon." http://visheshunni.wordpress.com/2009/0...Apr 03 21:12
schestowitzPeople joke about MS bailoutApr 03 21:13
schestowitzBut I think it'll happenApr 03 21:13
schestowitzThe latch onto medical dataApr 03 21:13
schestowitzTo create life dependency (thus public looting of data and funds)Apr 03 21:13
jose.. this reminds me of the "banks too big to fail problem"Apr 03 21:14
josethe gov should follow their approach and make sure to avoid similar situations in the technology fieldApr 03 21:14
schestowitzFive years with Ubuntu < http://www.ntra-net.com/2009/... > I too have used Ubuntu since 4.10 (not exclusively)Apr 03 21:16
schestowitzBank are too big, eh?Apr 03 21:17
schestowitzLet me find a chartApr 03 21:17
schestowitzHere: http://www.cringely.com/2009/02/w...Apr 03 21:17
schestowitzBut he says it is not accurateApr 03 21:17
joselinear scale is correctApr 03 21:18
josebut they used 2d graph which suggests in mind a comparison made on squared valuesApr 03 21:18
joseie, a circle that is half as long as another is 1/4 the sizeApr 03 21:18
josethe mind things "1/4" oh noApr 03 21:19
josebut the actual factual relationship was 1/2Apr 03 21:19
josethis effect is worse for greater changes in sizeApr 03 21:19
joseeg, 1/10 linear becomes 1/100 areaApr 03 21:19
joseie, 10% would give scare impression of being 1%Apr 03 21:20
joseof the 100% reference pointApr 03 21:20
joseif my rambling doesn't make senseApr 03 21:20
josethat's what happens when i should be planning for bed instead of being on ircApr 03 21:20
jose:-)Apr 03 21:20
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schestowitz"XScreenSaver is one of the most widely-used screensaver applications for Linux systems. The Debian project is seeking new maintainers to help keep the software running." http://www.linux-magazine.com/onli...Apr 03 21:21
schestowitzhttp://www.linux-wizard.net/blog-comp... "So whereas it's sad for the compiz dev, I'm happy to see tyhat finally in the end, hacks and workaround like Compiz will come to and end."Apr 03 21:28
_Hicham_compiz will be integrated in Gnome by that timeApr 03 21:30
_Hicham_when all people will have powerful graphic cardsApr 03 21:30
_Hicham_but for the moment, I enjoy compizApr 03 21:30
schestowitzWe seem to have a site copying our posts: http://www.allaboutms.net/2009/...Apr 03 21:33
schestowitzI'm actually cool about it because it keeps links and thus attributions in tact. It's good that our message spreads further like this.Apr 03 21:33
_Hicham_good for u schestowitzApr 03 21:34
_Hicham_u r getting popularApr 03 21:34
schestowitzI'll keep an eye on the siteApr 03 21:34
_Hicham_who is running it?Apr 03 21:35
schestowitzNo idea. Something in Russia, maybe a botApr 03 21:38
schestowitzMary Jo Foley talks BS now.. turning banter into some sort of headline that deceived: http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=2436 (Microsoft shouldn't buy Twitter)... well.. errr... it ain't... Google might.Apr 03 21:39
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schestowitzhttp://www.vanwensveen.nl/rants/mic... Gates: "No, the best way to prepare is to write programs, and to study great programs that other people have written. In my case, I went to the garbage cans at the Computer Science Center and I fished out listings of their operating system." Apr 03 21:52
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PetoKraushmmApr 03 21:59
PetoKrausso he used GPLed code :PApr 03 21:59
PetoKraus(ok, public domain)Apr 03 21:59
schestowitzMicrosoft won't let companies host Azure on premise  < http://www.infoworld.com/archiv... >Apr 03 22:02
schestowitzStating the obvious: PJ: "How naive do you have to be to put all your stuff on a proprietary infrastructure that you don't control? At least, I'd want to look at the small print and find out in advance what happens to my stuff..."Apr 03 22:03
schestowitz" if we have a dispute about, say, a price increase around the time we are negotiating a new deal and right after Azure has been "innovated" in just such a way that I can't get my older documents to open even if I could get to them unless I pay? I see the word "innovation" here, and I think "lock-in"."Apr 03 22:03
schestowitzPetoKraus: read the whole work and see how Microsoft never really invented anything. They just forced the market to accept stuff (junk)Apr 03 22:04
PetoKrausyeahApr 03 22:04
schestowitzCNET: "# ۩2009 CBS Interactive Inc. All rights reserved."Apr 03 22:07
schestowitzI wonder if the same goes for ZDNet then. The big networks pick up even the Microsoft pressApr 03 22:07
tacone"a ton of new IP"Apr 03 22:08
taconewowApr 03 22:08
schestowitzPetoKraus: are you on Gentoo?Apr 03 22:08
taconecan't wait.Apr 03 22:08
schestowitzIP is pronounced "hip"Apr 03 22:08
taconei don't get it :)Apr 03 22:09
schestowitzI got HIPApr 03 22:09
schestowitzI SUE youApr 03 22:09
PetoKrausschestowitz: archApr 03 22:10
PetoKrausschestowitz: why?Apr 03 22:10
taconeleave it alone :-)Apr 03 22:10
schestowitzI read a good review about it yesterday. Posted in BN links, as well.Apr 03 22:10
schestowitzDoes it come with Pac Man or just pcman?Apr 03 22:11
schestowitz*pacmanApr 03 22:11
PetoKrauspacmanApr 03 22:11
schestowitzParty like it's 1985. http://www.geekologie.com/20...Apr 03 22:12
PetoKraus:)Apr 03 22:13
taconeschestowitz: can I make a question of out of curiosity ?Apr 03 22:17
schestowitzIs ASUS dumping Xandros (with Microsoft patent deal) for Google? http://apcmag.com/Content.aspx?id=3711Apr 03 22:17
schestowitztacone: sure.Apr 03 22:17
taconeschestowitz: how many daily visitors does BN get on average ?Apr 03 22:17
taconeandroid is a clever choice from some points of views. better than gnome/kde in a way.Apr 03 22:18
taconei never did an android app, but the idea i got it's like creating a pluginApr 03 22:20
schestowitzBN -- depends on definitonApr 03 22:23
_Hicham_BN is very very popularApr 03 22:23
schestowitzWebalizer says 8000Apr 03 22:23
schestowitzAndroid seems to suckApr 03 22:24
schestowitzI think they like a major vendor+DRMApr 03 22:24
schestowitztacone: plugin=bad portabilityApr 03 22:24
taconei'm not saying android is good or bad.Apr 03 22:24
schestowitzLike building some XUL app for FirefoxApr 03 22:24
schestowitzHad Firefox died where would you run your work?Apr 03 22:25
taconei say it's getting good rap from oems for some reasons.Apr 03 22:25
schestowitzRun as in disseminate to many users?Apr 03 22:25
schestowitztacone: maybe it's easier to sell something like "Google"Apr 03 22:25
schestowitzThan Zulu terminologyApr 03 22:25
taconei think android still has some good pratical pointsApr 03 22:26
schestowitzCan the theme i Ubuntu ( Remix) be changed?Apr 03 22:26
schestowitzGrey on dark laptops looks awful and so is brown/dark orangeApr 03 22:26
taconeubuntu remix theme ?Apr 03 22:26
schestowitzIt looks like a chocolate boxApr 03 22:27
taconei didn't tried URApr 03 22:27
schestowitzH-P customised it betterApr 03 22:27
taconebut i believe it's transparent.Apr 03 22:27
taconeso depends from the wallpaper.Apr 03 22:27
taconeif you're talking about ubuntu mobile remix.Apr 03 22:27
tacone"remix" is any unofficial derivative.Apr 03 22:27
schestowitzMS press: "Last May, Sun completed the final stages of open sourcing Java under the GNU license." < http://reddevnews.com/reports/a... >Apr 03 22:28
schestowitzThe GL?Apr 03 22:28
tacone"remix" is the keyword canonical forces you to use if you want to use Ubuntu trademarkApr 03 22:28
schestowitzI didn't know that. I know they pressure flxubuntuApr 03 22:29
taconeyou can't create schestowitzbuntuApr 03 22:29
taconethou salt not use Ubuntu or *buntu.Apr 03 22:29
schestowitzThey defend their trdaemarks, claiming ownership of languageApr 03 22:29
taconeright.Apr 03 22:29
schestowitzUbuntu is not a nameApr 03 22:29
taconethey never sue anyone afaikApr 03 22:29
schestowitzIt's a wordApr 03 22:29
schestowitzWill they close down those restaurants that predate them?Apr 03 22:29
taconebut some one asked their permission explicitely for a websiteApr 03 22:29
taconeand they said *no*.Apr 03 22:29
schestowitzThey could claim that in context of computing it appliesApr 03 22:29
schestowitzFirebird was the sameApr 03 22:30
schestowitzAnd PhoenixApr 03 22:30
schestowitzFirefox used to be called bothApr 03 22:30
schestowitzThey had to shift nameApr 03 22:30
schestowitz*nameApr 03 22:30
schestowitz*namesApr 03 22:30
schestowitzTwice.Apr 03 22:30
schestowitzPhoenix BIOS and Firebird DBApr 03 22:30
taconei guess mozilla did change on their own, not because pressed.Apr 03 22:30
schestowitzMaybe.Apr 03 22:30
schestowitzI read it differentlyApr 03 22:31
taconei know nothing about it.Apr 03 22:31
taconemy take mozilla needs a strong and unique trademark in first place.Apr 03 22:31
schestowitz.I feel bad for people who creare some *ubuntu*.[net|org] siteApr 03 22:31
schestowitzOr with *linux*Apr 03 22:31
schestowitzTuxMachines is OKApr 03 22:31
taconeoh, *ubuntu.net/org etc are gonna stayApr 03 22:31
taconeno one will sue them.Apr 03 22:31
schestowitzPeople search for LinuxApr 03 22:31
schestowitzThey get "Linux"..comApr 03 22:31
schestowitzFront page - anfi-BN artivleApr 03 22:32
taconebut of course shall they ask for permission, they'd get a negative response.Apr 03 22:32
schestowitzSome peoople advocate trashing of trademarksApr 03 22:32
schestowitzBut that would harm recognitionApr 03 22:32
taconei don't care about trademarksApr 03 22:32
schestowitzMaybe these can be softenedApr 03 22:32
taconeunless they're pushed too farApr 03 22:32
schestowitzPhotoshop too is a bastard trademarApr 03 22:33
taconehttp://www.stefanoforenza.com/apple-p...Apr 03 22:33
schestowitzHeh. podApr 03 22:33
schestowitzI neve write p*dcastApr 03 22:33
taconepodium is a latin word. neverthless they claim itApr 03 22:33
schestowitzIt attributes audio to some ill-behaving companyApr 03 22:33
schestowitzEven some Linux sites call it something which sugggests I'll listen to it using an ip*dApr 03 22:34
schestowitzIt's bastardisation of vocabularyApr 03 22:34
taconeapple has no right to claim pod anyway.Apr 03 22:34
schestowitzWhen vacuum cleaner is hooverApr 03 22:34
schestowitzand computer is XPApr 03 22:34
schestowitzFree software is "Linux"Apr 03 22:34
taconedespite being bad to use pod to mean music player.Apr 03 22:34
schestowitzApple shut down a rumour siteApr 03 22:35
schestowitzAbout Apple.Apr 03 22:35
taconeit was called apple* though.Apr 03 22:35
schestowitzNo telling what the terms were. Maybe they paid him.Apr 03 22:35
schestowitzApple is a fruitApr 03 22:35
taconeguess they did.Apr 03 22:35
taconeor scared him.Apr 03 22:35
schestowitzApple LinuxApr 03 22:35
schestowitzI'd go for itApr 03 22:35
schestowitzNice wallpaper...Apr 03 22:36
taconewhich ?Apr 03 22:36
MinceRnice?Apr 03 22:36
_Hicham_where is this wallpaper?Apr 03 22:36
MinceRmaybe if fisher-price is your style :>Apr 03 22:36
schestowitzApplux. Yummy! http://etc.usf.edu/clipart/46300...Apr 03 22:36
taconeeverybody loves wallpapersApr 03 22:36
schestowitzPeople remember distros by their wallpapersApr 03 22:37
schestowitzF11 did wellApr 03 22:37
schestowitzNice wallpaper of nature, no artworkApr 03 22:37
schestowitzRemember Vists7 vapourwareApr 03 22:37
taconeubuntu hardy had a strong wallpaperApr 03 22:37
schestowitzLet me show you how Microsoft spreads cr*pApr 03 22:37
taconethey do on 1st april :-)Apr 03 22:38
MinceRwith heavy machinery?Apr 03 22:38
taconewith conficker.Apr 03 22:38
schestowitzCan't find it ATM..Apr 03 22:39
schestowitzhttp://elganmedia.net/ <- MS fanApr 03 22:39
schestowitzThe April 1st post from him was that silly Vista 7 leaked' screenshots that just show an iceland with a boatApr 03 22:39
schestowitzOh, and some icons beneath it.Apr 03 22:40
schestowitzI'll get started with linksApr 03 22:43
schestowitzGood news for Linux, almost none for Microsoft, as the case has been... well, since 2007.Apr 03 22:43
_Hicham_MS is closing department after departmentApr 03 22:48
schestowitzUntil the coreApr 03 22:49
schestowitzThey had a core: WindowsApr 03 22:49
schestowitzThen Office tooApr 03 22:50
schestowitzThey needed to expandApr 03 22:50
schestowitzSaid ballmer explicitlyApr 03 22:50
schestowitz"If we don't grow, then we shrink" (or something along those lines... 2008)Apr 03 22:50
schestowitzSo they started XBox. Fail.Apr 03 22:50
schestowitz$7 billion down the canApr 03 22:50
schestowitzThey tried Zune..Apr 03 22:50
schestowitzEnough said.Apr 03 22:50
schestowitzGoogle killerApr 03 22:50
schestowitzHaha.Apr 03 22:50
schestowitzNow they deflateApr 03 22:51
schestowitzUntil the bone (Windows+Office)Apr 03 22:51
schestowitzSaaS and FOSS kill their revenue margins... $50 Office for young people, free copies where Microsoft loves counterfeiting and Windows is a freebie.Apr 03 22:51
schestowitzNow, that would work IF people bought new hardwareApr 03 22:52
schestowitzThe OS they can give for free is almost a decade old (2001)Apr 03 22:52
schestowitzKDE4 pisses on itApr 03 22:52
taconelolApr 03 22:52
schestowitzAllchin: piss on Java .. < http://boycottnovell.com/comes-vs-mi... >Apr 03 22:56
*schestowitz removes ban on McCain!*@*Apr 03 23:05
*schestowitz removes ban on *!*n=ryan@*.hsd1.il.comcast.netApr 03 23:05
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DaemonFC`I'm considering going back to XFS, I've actually lost data to Ext4 twice nowApr 03 23:07
*DaemonFC` growlsApr 03 23:07
*DaemonFC` is now known as DaemonFCApr 03 23:07
*tacone is on xfsApr 03 23:08
DaemonFCif you enable barriers on Ext4, your data is corrupted in a crashApr 03 23:09
DaemonFCif you disable them, your data is corrupted worseApr 03 23:09
DaemonFClolApr 03 23:09
MinceRat least it's POSIX-compliant ;)Apr 03 23:12
DaemonFCXFS is POSIX compliantApr 03 23:13
DaemonFCshow me where it violates any POSIX standard ;)Apr 03 23:13
DaemonFCand you can only use the word standard loosely with regards to anything unix/posixApr 03 23:14
DaemonFCand the wonderful thing about standards is there's so many to choose fromApr 03 23:14
DaemonFCno POSIX spec for file system behavior guarantees data integrity at allApr 03 23:15
DaemonFCsometimes the correct thing for the file system to do in a situation is undefinedApr 03 23:15
DaemonFCwell, a lot of the time I should sayApr 03 23:15
schestowitzryan, you were unbanned based on the assumption that you would chill. You are here just ranting.Apr 03 23:15
DaemonFCPOSIX is a joke, SUS is a joke, LSB is a joke, it's because the companies that "standardize" the stuff adon't want standardsApr 03 23:16
DaemonFCthey don't want you to leave Red Hat and use Novell or leave Novell and use UbuntuApr 03 23:16
DaemonFCno, I just cringe everytime someone says POSIX, because without guaranteed consistent behavior, it is not a standardApr 03 23:17
schestowitzOk, but it's hardly on topicApr 03 23:17
schestowitzFilesystem that isApr 03 23:17
schestowitzYou're already in file system channels. You should rant *there*Apr 03 23:18
DaemonFCstandards apply to steel beams, not software :) everApr 03 23:18
DaemonFCand I leave it at thatApr 03 23:18
schestowitzWhat do you program in?Apr 03 23:18
DaemonFCI mainly try to use the stuff that various random projects churn out and you know that one UNIX or Linux may work fine and another UNIX or Linux may not even let the application build, much less even fail *after* buildingApr 03 23:19
DaemonFCbut this applies even between two Linux distros that are LSB-compliantApr 03 23:20
schestowitzYou can usually build it somehow for any distroApr 03 23:20
schestowitzUnlike for a closed systemApr 03 23:20
MinceRDaemonFC: Ted Ts'o's argument was that it's POSIX-compliantApr 03 23:20
MinceRwhich is pretty much irrelevant if it loses data :PApr 03 23:21
DaemonFCso it's very much an end user problem when you  need guarantees and all you have are buggy test suites that say two incompatible systems passApr 03 23:21
schestowitzWhere you can struggle forever building for some forced crippled 'upgrade' like LonghornApr 03 23:21
DaemonFCand leave mostly wiggle room anywayApr 03 23:21
schestowitzext4 is not yet bundlesApr 03 23:21
schestowitz*bundled (for a reason)Apr 03 23:21
DaemonFCand Ted Ts'o is masturbating if he expects any reasonable person to not laugh at thatApr 03 23:21
DaemonFCcause POSIX compliant means squatApr 03 23:21
schestowitzDid you see what he said about Debian?Apr 03 23:21
schestowitzHe's got some opposition to him.Apr 03 23:21
DaemonFCOK, that happensApr 03 23:22
taconeext4 is in jauntyApr 03 23:22
taconeand in next fedoraApr 03 23:22
DaemonFCand their kernel is not fit to run Ext4Apr 03 23:22
schestowitzHe's the CTO of LF nowApr 03 23:22
taconethey patch.Apr 03 23:22
DaemonFCcause they are not backporting even basic patches for fs integrity sanityApr 03 23:22
schestowitzThey got MoblinApr 03 23:23
schestowitzIntel probably dumped it at LF cause it's trashApr 03 23:23
schestowitzARM can use Intel's code nowApr 03 23:23
DaemonFCIt's easier for me to build my own kernel and patch it with what makes senseApr 03 23:23
schestowitzAnd make cheaper, faster, more energy-efficient 'MIDs', as Intel wants to cell themApr 03 23:23
DaemonFCcause you can never trust a distro kernel to do the right thingApr 03 23:23
DaemonFCIf it's not in Trovalds' tree, I don't want itApr 03 23:24
DaemonFCperiodApr 03 23:24
DaemonFCif Torvalds has refused it, don't maintain it out of tree, he is smarter than youApr 03 23:24
DaemonFClolApr 03 23:24
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schestowitzMorton's a messApr 03 23:25
schestowitzWas Apr 03 23:25
schestowitzIn 2.6.28Apr 03 23:25
DaemonFCif Ubuntu would follow that guideline if they can't make meaningful contributionsApr 03 23:25
DaemonFCUbuntu would be a lot higher qualityApr 03 23:25
schestowitzBut it's not intended for use in distrosApr 03 23:25
schestowitzCandidates for mergingApr 03 23:25
schestowitzext4 is not merged yetApr 03 23:25
DaemonFCof course mm is a mess, that's why there's an mmApr 03 23:25
schestowitzNot in -finalApr 03 23:25
DaemonFCit has every experimental patch you can haveApr 03 23:26
DaemonFCeven Reiser4Apr 03 23:26
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schestowitzYou want stable, the stick with centosApr 03 23:26
DaemonFCReiser4 is not a bad file system, they turned down a damn fine contributionApr 03 23:26
DaemonFCcause the developer was a jerkApr 03 23:26
schestowitzhttp://jehurst.wordpress.com/2009/0... It works really, really well.Apr 03 23:26
DaemonFCCentOS is kind of ridiculousApr 03 23:27
DaemonFCRHEL kernels can only load Ext3, you have to use that or Ext2Apr 03 23:27
schestowitzFine.Apr 03 23:28
DaemonFCyou have to build the modules yourself after the system is already installed, which means rebuilding their kernel source if you still want one that's mostly RHELApr 03 23:28
DaemonFCand if you are using RHEL, this voids your supportApr 03 23:28
schestowitzOf courseApr 03 23:28
schestowitzYou want cutting-edge, then use SabayonApr 03 23:29
DaemonFCXFS is hardly cutting edgeApr 03 23:29
DaemonFCI mean loading the module in an RHEL kernel voids your supportApr 03 23:29
MinceR"if i want cutting edge, i'll buy a sword. if i want bleeding edge, i'll use it."Apr 03 23:30
DaemonFCmeh, Debian has good package management but is ancient, Fedora is cutting edge but their package manager sucksApr 03 23:31
DaemonFCso Ubuntu is a compromise that most people can live withApr 03 23:31
DaemonFCand most of the stuff that comes from them is alrightApr 03 23:31
*tacone agreesApr 03 23:32
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schestowitzwb, oiaohm Apr 03 23:34
DaemonFCI even tried OpenSuse at one point on a spare system to see what all the hubbub was aboutApr 03 23:34
DaemonFCand was greeted by an EXEApr 03 23:34
schestowitzand DLLsApr 03 23:34
schestowitzMonoApr 03 23:34
DaemonFCthat didn't last longApr 03 23:34
schestowitzDLL hell?Apr 03 23:34
schestowitzMono hell?Apr 03 23:34
DaemonFCyeah no shitApr 03 23:35
DaemonFClook for dllApr 03 23:35
DaemonFClocate dllApr 03 23:35
DaemonFCand watch all the crap fly down the terminal windowApr 03 23:35
benJImanBecause the most important thing about libraries is what the file extension is.Apr 03 23:35
schestowitzWait until Novell make symbolic linksApr 03 23:35
DaemonFCthey could have named them .soApr 03 23:35
schestowitz/opt/bin/ --> /progra~1Apr 03 23:35
DaemonFCSuse is just flagrantly naming stuff EXE/DLL etc to wave their dick aroundApr 03 23:36
DaemonFCI'm convincedApr 03 23:36
taconethey may already have, i guessApr 03 23:36
DaemonFCwait, they don't even have locate or slocate or mlocateApr 03 23:36
DaemonFCyou have to install thatApr 03 23:37
schestowitzWhen they are done rewriting yast2, then I'll sure look under /progra~1/yast.exeApr 03 23:37
DaemonFCand build the databaseApr 03 23:37
benJImanBecause locate is not actually that useful.Apr 03 23:37
benJImanor efficient.Apr 03 23:37
benJImanWhen the database building was on by default there were more complaints than there are about beagle now.Apr 03 23:38
oiaohmYast has never been a efficient thing.Apr 03 23:38
schestowitzbeagle is a exe app tooApr 03 23:38
benJImanProgramme filename ends in .exe! Warn your distributor now.Apr 03 23:38
PetoKrausyeah, it's quite retardedApr 03 23:39
schestowitz(23:38 $)─> beagle --helpApr 03 23:39
schestowitzERRORApr 03 23:39
schestowitz(23:38 $)─> beagle /helpApr 03 23:39
DaemonFClmaoApr 03 23:39
taconereally ?Apr 03 23:40
taconewould be beagle /?Apr 03 23:40
schestowitzI think it could. Teachnically it can.Apr 03 23:41
schestowitzYou know what Mono adovocates sayApr 03 23:42
schestowitzIt's about attracting Windows developersApr 03 23:42
schestowitzThey mimic VS alreadyApr 03 23:42
schestowitzWallpaper for OpenSUSE 12.0: http://www.guidebookgallery.o...Apr 03 23:43
oiaohmPE of .mono can be picked up by wine by mistake.Apr 03 23:43
taconelolApr 03 23:43
schestowitzThe point I'm trying to make is that the approach is flawedApr 03 23:43
*_Hicham_1 (n=hicham@41.249.87.29) has joined #boycottnovellApr 03 23:43
taconewould be fun to have a screenshot with the suse gnome panelApr 03 23:44
schestowitzI mean, sure... to make them most 'welcome' you just give them another WindowsApr 03 23:44
schestowitzBut what was actually achieved?Apr 03 23:44
DaemonFCthen Wine tells you to install Mono for WindowsApr 03 23:45
DaemonFCinside WineApr 03 23:45
DaemonFCB-)Apr 03 23:45
taconeDaemonFC: are you joking or they do already ?Apr 03 23:46
oiaohmhttp://projects.gnome.org/tracker/  Gnome guys got sick of beagle poor performance due to being .net and wrote this C based replacement.Apr 03 23:46
DaemonFCnot jokingApr 03 23:46
taconei knew they had plans to do that.Apr 03 23:46
oiaohmAnd that is no jokeApr 03 23:46
DaemonFCTracker is in UbuntuApr 03 23:46
MinceRthen they'll port wine to monoApr 03 23:46
taconeoiaohm: tracker sucks in many waysApr 03 23:46
MinceRthen you can run wine on mono on wine on mono on wine on mono on wine on mono on wine on mono...Apr 03 23:46
oiaohmCompared to beagle that can eat you cpu and ram for lunch.Apr 03 23:46
DaemonFCMinceR: Let's isntall Mono in Wine then rewrite Win in Mono and install it in Mono For WineApr 03 23:47
oiaohmWine cannot be ported to mono.Apr 03 23:47
taconetracker used to hang my gtk appsApr 03 23:47
taconelolApr 03 23:47
oiaohmtracker only eats you cpu for lunch from time to time.Apr 03 23:47
oiaohmIts a improvement.Apr 03 23:47
taconeno, it hung applications which were trying to read they're .glade file. for minutesApr 03 23:47
taconeI hope the newer versions of tracker work betterApr 03 23:47
DaemonFCGNOME, I think, realizes what a bad thing Mono is, how poor the performance isApr 03 23:48
DaemonFCand is moving awayApr 03 23:48
taconeneverthless, tracker is worth nothing without a good guiApr 03 23:48
taconeand it has not any good guiApr 03 23:48
PetoKraussup dawg we herd you like to wine so we put mono in your wine so you can wine while you monoApr 03 23:48
taconegnome doesn't realize nothing about mono.Apr 03 23:48
DaemonFCthey're moving away from Mozilla crap at leastApr 03 23:48
DaemonFCI'm happy about thatApr 03 23:48
taconezomgApr 03 23:49
oiaohm http://strigi.sourceforge.net/  Kde version works about the best.Apr 03 23:49
taconei don't have a suse live cd.Apr 03 23:49
taconewhat now ?Apr 03 23:49
DaemonFCpretty soon we can use GTKWebkit which is like 4 times faster on scriptsApr 03 23:49
DaemonFCand takes less RAMApr 03 23:49
*schestowitz uses strigiApr 03 23:49
MinceRPetoKraus: lolApr 03 23:50
tacone$ wget downloads.microsoft.com/europe/mi/ballnux-latest-i386.isoApr 03 23:50
oiaohmHas anyone checked the software packages contained in that.Apr 03 23:51
oiaohmBecause that means MS is the direct distributor of them.Apr 03 23:52
oiaohmHopefully some GPLv3 in there.Apr 03 23:52
Balrog_well, GTKWebkit needs work. Sure it's being done.Apr 03 23:52
*tacone wishes wordpress was on gpl3. is being distributed by MSApr 03 23:53
Balrog_and Firefox has native ogg theora/vorbis supportApr 03 23:53
Balrog_wordpress .... distributed ... by MS?Apr 03 23:53
taconeyeahApr 03 23:53
Balrog_linkApr 03 23:53
taconehttps://www.microsoft.com/web/Apr 03 23:53
Balrog_you mean their crippled version?Apr 03 23:53
Balrog_or enhanced?Apr 03 23:54
taconei don't think it's enh/cripplApr 03 23:54
taconei think they just patched it for iis /sql serv.Apr 03 23:54
taconehttp://www.microsoft.com/web/gall...Apr 03 23:54
taconeit's the first app listedApr 03 23:54
Balrog_well, server 2008 does support PHP, I headApr 03 23:54
Balrog_I don't know how wellApr 03 23:54
Balrog_probably poorlyApr 03 23:55
taconethey worked closely with zend in the last yearsApr 03 23:55
taconeprobably hopelessy trying to compete with apache.Apr 03 23:55
oiaohmserver 2008 still have disc access glitches.Apr 03 23:55
Balrog_here we still use server 03, when we have to use windowsApr 03 23:56
schestowitzZend says it runs Linux 95% of the timeApr 03 23:56
schestowitzMicrosofgt is losing itApr 03 23:56
schestowitzOnly a MS Sandwich Engineer would buy a $3000 server to run a blogApr 03 23:57
Balrog_yes, that is correct. Or an idiotApr 03 23:57
Balrog_(and I know some people who run mail / forum servers on Windows Server)Apr 03 23:57
taconeit's just a one more thing you can do.Apr 03 23:57
schestowitzThey rely on lots of ignorance. They still have some people who use IE6Apr 03 23:57
taconeyes they do rely on ignorance.Apr 03 23:58
schestowitzWindows=easyApr 03 23:58
schestowitzMicrosoft=innovativeApr 03 23:58
Balrog_no, windows is not easy at allApr 03 23:58
schestowitzLinux=mother's basementApr 03 23:58
Balrog_people just hate config files and text-based stuffApr 03 23:58
DaemonFCI don't know how it's easier to reformat the disk every so oftenApr 03 23:58
schestowitzApple=:"too cool"Apr 03 23:58
DaemonFCand just accept it as normalApr 03 23:58
Balrog_schestowitz: according to Microsoft :PApr 03 23:58
schestowitzYes, of courseApr 03 23:59
schestowitzIt's the hypnosisApr 03 23:59
schestowitzYou need to recite itApr 03 23:59
schestowitzRibbon=innovativeApr 03 23:59
schestowitzOOXML=sophisticatedApr 03 23:59
*_Hicham_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))Apr 03 23:59
oiaohmLack of good desktop graphical tools for configuring Linux.Apr 03 23:59
oiaohmHave caused lots of problems.Apr 03 23:59
schestowitzWhich tools?Apr 03 23:59
schestowitzSome people grew up with config filesApr 03 23:59
oiaohmYet there was no point to good graphical tools to configure Linux while X11 was unstable.Apr 03 23:59
schestowitzSo they carry on ignoring GUIsApr 03 23:59
schestowitzI still write my cron jobsApr 03 23:59
Balrog_and some grew up with no config filesApr 03 23:59

Recent Techrights' Posts

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1901 Days in High-Security Prison (and 8 More Years in Severe Confinement) for the 'Crime' of Exposing War Crimes and Corruption
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Reprinted with permission from Daniel Pocock
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Links 18/07/2024: Hostname Pedantry and Retro Coding
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[Meme] The Warlord's Catspaw
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[Meme] Microsoft is Firing
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Over at Tux Machines...
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[Meme] Ein Factory
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