07.11.07
No, Miguel, I Will Neither Shut Up Nor Will I Retract (Unless You Are Being Specific)
I’ll make a confession. I’m a little worried about criticising Novell. But why should I? If Novell does something wrong, this needs to be pointed out, doesn’t it?
As our reader gpl1 said the other day, making subtle statements which accuse me of defamation makes it seem like muting attempts. Shades of SCO?
I noticed the same type of thing in Rob Weir’s blog. Even ideas such as “lawsuits” are now being raised in that comments section. He received a lot of press exposure after he had criticised Microsoft’s OpenXML (rightly so!) .
I refuse to let companies like Novell win by changing the tone of this blog, which relies on decent sources that are being cited. Mistakes are being corrected as well.
So, here is short little outburst to show that Novell has some problems, which I am no longer going to ignore. Holding back evidence of weaknesses is akin to censorship.
You may wish to know that Novell, just like its ‘partner’ Microsoft, suffers from some critical flaws on this ‘patch Tuesday’. According to a recent article, Novell continues losing customers as well.
When Novell announced it would no longer support NPS, “we decided it was time to move to something we would have more control of,” Cash says. “It was time to look for an open source solution.”
To Novell’s staff that has criticisms, please propose a correction and please be specific. Calling something “defamatory” without an argument to back this is akin to Microsoft’s IP accusations against Linux.
Anonymous said,
July 12, 2007 at 3:26 am
Just nit picking but in the last paragraph “criticals flaws” and “without and arguments ” should be fixed.
Roy Schestowitz said,
July 12, 2007 at 4:25 am
Thanks. Corrected.
I always have some typos that need ironing out. My writing pace is to blame. I need to proofread.
Ian said,
July 12, 2007 at 11:01 am
Not to put words into anyone else’s mouth, but I think the point he was making was that you claimed he was in the know before Jeremy Allison was which Miguel claimed is untrue. Plus, I wouldn’t exactly put a comment on a blog on equal footing with a multi billion dollar company making IP claims against an entitity, regardless of how weak those claims are.
Your implied link to “SCO-like” activities is a stretch at best. Anyone in Miguel’s postition(you and me included) would probably not back down when you disagree with a comment made about you that you don’t agree with or think not to be true. You can call something defamation and it not have legal implications.
To be honest though, I’m just rendering an opinion based on what I read. Only Miguel can clear up what he really meant.
Ian said,
July 12, 2007 at 11:07 am
One more thing, I would hope that Novell would never do anything to try and shut this site down in its current form. While I personally disagree with many parts of your message, you should have every right to state your opinion. It would be a mistake for Novell to ever try to muzzle public opinion on this site or any other site.
Roy Schestowitz said,
July 12, 2007 at 11:20 am
Thanks, Ian. To clarify, this was not the first time that I confronted Miguel (here and elsewhere). My opinions are not welcomed by everyone and everywhere, but in places where I post I tend to be surrounded by a crowd that thinks alike.
You are right about parts of this message being a stretch. This was an impulsive post and my pace sometimes hinders careful selection of words and leads to ambiguities. For example, earlier today I realised that I had written “de Icaza supports OOXML”. While I meant to say that he supports its approval by the ISO or accepts its existence, some might misinterpret this and insinuate that he chooses OOXML over ODF.
Here and elsewhere I tend to choose speed, sometimes at the expense of quality and accuracy. The openness of the discussion leaves room for correction.
Sebastiaan Veld said,
July 12, 2007 at 2:20 pm
‘You may wish to know that Novell, just like its ‘partner’ Microsoft, suffers from some critical flaws on this ‘patch Tuesday’. According to a recent article, Novell continues losing customers as well.’
I should start to worry when there was no fix for a flaw. Then, give me one company or (open source) project that does not ever have flaws in their code that need to be, or have been fixed. Even on a Tuesday:)
The article does not say Novell loses a customer, just one piece of software (IMO crappy, but a good solution at the time is was lauched) NPS is changed for an open solution LifeRay. Realise that for most Novell customers NPS is already part of NetWare, known as Virtual Office.
My opinion is that for portal solutions an open ground in general is best. So, also Novell saw that after experimenting with different portal solutions (like NPS, VO and eXtend) and that’s the reason Novell also works also on LiveRay: LiveRay is the portal used for Novell’s upcoming ‘Novell Teaming and Conferencing’ product and will also be part of the Worgroup Suite Solution… One could image that this customer has chosen this portal since there might be a nice upgrade path for the services that they use, (may be) GroupWise, NetWare, OES Linux, and looking at T&C that they then can integrate in their open-portal solution AND still having support from Novell.
Think this gives a slightly different turn to the story.
Miguel de Icaza said,
July 12, 2007 at 7:05 pm
The issue that I have with Roy statement is this paragraph, which is a complete fabrication:
“To repeat old facts, the developers were not part of the this decision, with the exception of a few prominent ones such as Miguel de Icaza, who is a VP. It was all done secretly. Jeremy Allison knew about it and he protested against the sneaky, 90th-minute inclusion of patent elements. These elements were not part of the original deal, which had been negotiated for months.”
From:
http://boycottnovell.com/2007/07/08/opensuse-image-problem/
As I said on those comments, I learned on the same day that Jeremy Allison learned about it (or perhaps the night before when I was told to go to Waltham).
Roy could make his points based on actual evidence, he does not need to manufacture them. I guess its just a cultural issue, Roy living in the UK, the land of the tabloid, he does not know better.
Miguel.
Miguel de Icaza said,
July 12, 2007 at 7:07 pm
I expect Roy to correct his statements (as he says on this very blog entry) as he has no evidence to prove that I was involved in the deal before other Open Source people in the company found out about it.
So Roy, when is the apology and the correction coming out?
Miguel.
Roy Schestowitz said,
July 12, 2007 at 7:40 pm
Miguel, you misread what I wrote, but I’ll cross it out to remove what might be perceived as an ambiguous statement.
When I wrote:
I meant to say that you knew about it before the large majority of the developers were informed (possibly just after the announcement). I was not referring to Jeremy Allison there. Either way, thanks for the correction and I hope any room for misinterpretation is no longer there.
By the way, I don’t read tabloids. Can’t stand them.
John Drinkwater said,
July 12, 2007 at 7:48 pm
Calling the UK the land of the tabloid does a great disservice to our many broadsheets.
Can I start calling your country of birth (unfairly) the land of the servants?
Slated said,
July 15, 2007 at 11:08 am
Re: de Icaza’s comment about the U.K.
For a country that supposedly prides itself on the protection of the “inalienable rights” of it’s countrymen, the U.S. certainly seems to expend an awful lot of effort suppressing and violating those rights.
As to the subject at hand, I neither know nor care who knew what or when. What I do know is that the Novell pact with Microsoft is a violation of everything Free Software stands for, and anyone involved in that pact, or in support of it, has lost the trust and faith of the Free Software community.
At best, Novell has allowed itself to be extorted in a fashion similar to a protection racket, and at worst (given Novell’s rather patchy history) I’d say it’s not unlikely that Novell wilfully betrayed the Free Software community for a handful of silver.
As a Fedora user and maintainer, I am fortunate in that I am not (currently) subject to Microsoft’s protection racket; but thanks to sell-outs like Novell, Xandros and Linspire; we all now have that threat hanging over us like a guillotine. As such, I vow to dedicate my time to purging Microsoft tainted components from every aspect of the Free Software community, as much as is possible, starting with the new Gobuntu project, and further extending that to Fedora and others. My first task will be to advocate for the depreciation and elimination of Mono and all it’s equally tainted dependants.
Here’s what Bruce Perens has to say about Mono:
http://media.slated.org/albums/userpics/ITC_OM-BrucePerens-2007_03_26.ogg
AFAIAC Novell is now as serious a threat to the Free Software community as Microsoft, possibly more (like a Wolf in Sheep’s clothing). If Novell truly is the “next SCO”, then may it quickly perish.
Roy Schestowitz said,
July 15, 2007 at 11:49 am
Good bit of audio you got there. I recommend everyone who reads this to have a quick listen.
http://media.slated.org/albums/userpics/ITC_OM-BrucePerens-2007_03_26.ogg
It is as eye-opening as it needs to be.
Slated said,
June 13, 2008 at 2:57 am
Note: the URL for this clip has changed:
http://media.slated.org/albums/content/audio/ITC_OM-BrucePerens-2007_03_26.ogg
Root said,
June 13, 2008 at 4:54 am
This website is one big hate and smear campaign. And it is laughable when its maintainer acts all “innocent damsell in distress”.