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Jun 26 05:21 |
| schestowitz |
tessier, I saw that article earlier. Thanks. I posted it along with the latest links. |
Jun 26 06:05 |
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Jun 26 07:30 |
| cozub |
morgen |
Jun 26 08:16 |
| schestowitz |
Howdy, cozub. |
Jun 26 08:17 |
| blackrabbit |
hi cozub schestowitz |
Jun 26 08:18 |
| schestowitz |
Good news for Linux today. I’ll post links later, but… RHT’s results are a good start for the morning. |
Jun 26 08:18 |
| tessier |
schestowitz: Morning? You are just waking up? You live in Australia or something? |
Jun 26 08:24 |
| cozub |
UK, afaik |
Jun 26 08:26 |
| blackrabbit |
hi tessier |
Jun 26 08:26 |
| schestowitz |
I’ve been waking up around 5AM recently. It’s quite bright outside at that time. |
Jun 26 08:26 |
| blackrabbit |
I didn’t see you here yesterday, nice to meet you tessier |
Jun 26 08:26 |
| blackrabbit |
I didn’t see you here either cozub or did I? |
Jun 26 08:26 |
| tessier |
blackrabbit: I’ve been here for a week or two. Nice to meet you too. |
Jun 26 08:26 |
| cozub |
well, I’m mostly idling around and just reading stuff when I have the time |
Jun 26 08:26 |
| blackrabbit |
 |
Jun 26 08:26 |
| cozub |
I’m not really keeping up |
Jun 26 08:27 |
| cozub |
with the happenings here or @ BN |
Jun 26 08:27 |
| blackrabbit |
cozub, if I have not spoken to you, nice to meet you |
Jun 26 08:27 |
| cozub |
nj, nice to meet you too  |
Jun 26 08:27 |
| blackrabbit |
tessier, I suggested the creation of this channel via tor to schestowitz’s excellent site, to my surprise, he created it! |
Jun 26 08:27 |
| blackrabbit |
tessier, I’ve been following schestowitz’s efforts online for a long time now, he really is a hero |
Jun 26 08:28 |
| tessier |
Yeah, I’ve been following him for a few years too. |
Jun 26 08:28 |
| blackrabbit |
tessier, unlike a lot of active websites, schestowitz actually reads user comments and appreciates them! |
Jun 26 08:28 |
| tessier |
Mostly via c.o.l.a. |
Jun 26 08:29 |
| blackrabbit |
tessier, he is great, isn’t he? |
Jun 26 08:29 |
| schestowitz |
Thanjks, blackrabbit. |
Jun 26 08:29 |
| tessier |
yep |
Jun 26 08:29 |
| blackrabbit |
schestowitz, thank you |
Jun 26 08:29 |
| blackrabbit |
tessier, oh, another newsgroup user? |
Jun 26 08:29 |
| blackrabbit |
how do you filter all of the newsgroup spam? |
Jun 26 08:30 |
| cozub |
does the l and a in cola stand for linux advocacy? |
Jun 26 08:30 |
| cozub |
(pardon my ignorance) |
Jun 26 08:30 |
| schestowitz |
cozub, yes, it’s comp.os.linux.advocacy |
Jun 26 08:35 |
| schestowitz |
I only found out about it in 2005. Prior to this I was in technical newsgroups, including the SUSE one. |
Jun 26 08:35 |
| cozub |
thx. I heard of that group… but it’s been some time since I stopped reading news; maybe I can give it another try |
Jun 26 08:37 |
| schestowitz |
You would probably need filters. There are abusive trolls there. Speaking of abuse, I’ve just cleaned up BN spam. GNAA is still spamming us (N and F words all over the place, as usual). It’s not even comments. They flood the Web (inc. Slashdot) with automated self-promotion. It’s gross to read. |
Jun 26 08:41 |
| blackrabbit |
schestowitz, I’ve tried filters but how do you stop them from filtering good information? |
Jun 26 08:45 |
| tessier |
blackrabbit: Filter by author |
Jun 26 08:45 |
| tessier |
The trolls never post good information |
Jun 26 08:46 |
| blackrabbit |
thanks tessier I always filtered by content and it blocked a lot of good posts |
Jun 26 08:48 |
| tessier |
You can probably reliably filter on swear words and racial words etc |
Jun 26 08:49 |
| schestowitz |
Not all the trolls curse. |
Jun 26 08:52 |
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Jun 26 10:43 |
| schestowitz |
OpenSUSE’s fans seem to be in a tizzy. http://boycottnovell.com/2008/0… |
Jun 26 14:00 |
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Jun 26 14:42 |
| schestowitz |
wb, moparx |
Jun 26 15:20 |
| schestowitz |
Eruaran, , seen this yet? http://practical-tech.com/bus… |
Jun 26 15:32 |
| Eruaran |
hi roy |
Jun 26 15:51 |
| Eruaran |
I just sat down |
Jun 26 15:51 |
| schestowitz |
Not the first rant from him (first it was about desktop icons).  |
Jun 26 15:52 |
| Eruaran |
everybody knows 4.04 isn’t the stable release |
Jun 26 15:52 |
| schestowitz |
Yes, I was surprised by this too. The 4.1 branch (testing) ought to be better. The last report from PolishLinux was OK. |
Jun 26 15:54 |
| Eruaran |
Yes, the word I’m hearing is that 4.1 is set to be a big improvement and the release the KDE devs are comfortable with as the first stable release thats ready for general use. |
Jun 26 15:56 |
| Eruaran |
The fact that there has not been a stable release yet seems to evade some of these people who write reviews. Nobody said it was stable. |
Jun 26 15:56 |
| schestowitz |
Discussion here (just left a comment myself): http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/28092 |
Jun 26 15:59 |
| schestowitz |
No, 4.2 might be needed for an 3.5-quality release. 4.2 _at the least_. Crashes/error versus user experience is the key At the end (very edn), it’s important to get the latter right. |
Jun 26 16:00 |
| Eruaran |
This guys review is just plain stupid |
Jun 26 16:01 |
| Eruaran |
He’s taking good features that KDE4 has and slagging off about it without good reason |
Jun 26 16:01 |
| schestowitz |
My comment was short and I responded because they shoot the messenger, who is a bit of a friend. I wrote: “Trust Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols: I do trust the man, but watch what he’s reviewing (old version). He needs to be patient. I’m sure it’ll turn around.” |
Jun 26 16:01 |
| Eruaran |
“the ‘icons’ have small controls so you can work with the icon itself. Ah… why? This isn’t a Mac, I have a right mouse button key and I’m not afraid to click it.” |
Jun 26 16:01 |
| schestowitz |
You reckon he trolls? I never saw him doing that. Honest. |
Jun 26 16:02 |
| Eruaran |
This guy is just a dick |
Jun 26 16:02 |
| Eruaran |
yes |
Jun 26 16:02 |
| Eruaran |
definately |
Jun 26 16:02 |
| schestowitz |
The LinuxDevices people sometimes trolled. |
Jun 26 16:02 |
| Eruaran |
I have not met a single person who has tried KDE 4 who didn’t like the little controls that light up on icons when you mouse over them |
Jun 26 16:02 |
| schestowitz |
I’ll need to read it carefully. I read only the beginning. |
Jun 26 16:02 |
| Eruaran |
My mum loves it because it makes sense to her (she doesn’t understand right clicking and holding down shift or ctrl) |
Jun 26 16:03 |
| Eruaran |
My boss loves it, he just says, “thats hot” |
Jun 26 16:03 |
| Eruaran |
And this guy is demonstrating he knows nothing about usability |
Jun 26 16:04 |
| schestowitz |
Cool. By the way, is it true that KDE 3.5 isn’t on the OSUSE CD? |
Jun 26 16:04 |
| Eruaran |
dunno |
Jun 26 16:04 |
| Eruaran |
I don’t pay much attention to OSuse |
Jun 26 16:04 |
| Eruaran |
I think its highly overrated |
Jun 26 16:04 |
| schestowitz |
Susan is hyping it up (Tux Machines) |
Jun 26 16:05 |
| Eruaran |
People always hype OSuse up… and yet I’ve never been overly impressed when I’ve tried it for myself |
Jun 26 16:05 |
| Eruaran |
I don’t get it |
Jun 26 16:05 |
| Eruaran |
Ubuntu has much better hardware support |
Jun 26 16:06 |
| Eruaran |
“My smallest PC displays are 20.1” these days. There was never enough room on them for KDE 4″ – this is just rubbish |
Jun 26 16:07 |
| schestowitz |
Ladislav too… |
Jun 26 16:07 |
| Eruaran |
We have KDE 4.1 beta1 on a demo system at work with a 22″ widescreen (not much bigger) and its fantastic |
Jun 26 16:08 |
| schestowitz |
I’m not sure about hardware support. I’ve tried both on several computers and both worked quite perfectly without any yinkering. |
Jun 26 16:08 |
| schestowitz |
*tinkering. |
Jun 26 16:08 |
| Eruaran |
OSuse doesn’t have bad hardware support |
Jun 26 16:08 |
| Eruaran |
Just not as good as Ubuntu |
Jun 26 16:09 |
| schestowitz |
Novell has the advantage which is those ‘marketing people they hire’. New guy BTW: |
Jun 26 16:09 |
| schestowitz |
http://www.novell.com/prblogs/?p=480 |
Jun 26 16:09 |
| schestowitz |
I call them Novell boosters because their role (paid for) is to change perception. That’s all. It comes from the term Microsoft booster. Microsoft is a marketing company. Same with Apple. |
Jun 26 16:10 |
| Eruaran |
And why are fuddsters still reviewing KDE 4.04 when 4.1 beta2 is out ? |
Jun 26 16:10 |
| schestowitz |
OpenSUSE. That’s why. |
Jun 26 16:11 |
| schestowitz |
I can’t convince SJVN to skip or ignore the sellouts. |
Jun 26 16:11 |
| Eruaran |
I would blame OpenSuse for that |
Jun 26 16:12 |
| schestowitz |
He knows people from there. In fact, eWeek gave Xandros and Linspire a lot of publicity; without SJVN, they /still/ do. |
Jun 26 16:12 |
| Eruaran |
If they’re pushing it as if its ready for prime time, thats their fault. |
Jun 26 16:12 |
| schestowitz |
OpenSUSE also comes with FF beta, IIRC. |
Jun 26 16:12 |
| schestowitz |
I don’t want to draw attention to SJVN’s alleged ‘trolling’, so I won’t do a post blaming OpenSUSE.. |
Jun 26 16:13 |
| Eruaran |
I think these guys just don’t understand KDE’s development process |
Jun 26 16:13 |
| schestowitz |
I think KDE could use marketing muscle. They should have never released 4.0 as though it’s a product but more as a developer’s ‘SDK’ |
Jun 26 16:14 |
| Eruaran |
Aaron went to great lengths to explain it on his blog |
Jun 26 16:15 |
| schestowitz |
Distros that try to earn ‘cutting-edge’ merit (F9 too) are giving software that’s not necessarily good for all users just yet. |
Jun 26 16:15 |
| Eruaran |
So did a couple of the other guys |
Jun 26 16:15 |
| schestowitz |
Eruaran, blogs are not seen as widely. |
Jun 26 16:15 |
| schestowitz |
I wrote about it too. |
Jun 26 16:15 |
| schestowitz |
I had 3.9 running alongside 3.5 at one stage. Actually, it’s still installed. |
Jun 26 16:16 |
| Eruaran |
well even less widely now that Aarons has gone private |
Jun 26 16:16 |
| schestowitz |
|
Jun 26 16:16 |
| schestowitz |
Accident, no? |
Jun 26 16:16 |
| Eruaran |
I noticed in the last couple of weeks that he lost patience with people |
Jun 26 16:17 |
| Eruaran |
I think he’s just fed up with all the crap being thrown at him |
Jun 26 16:17 |
| schestowitz |
Hans for example. Also SJVN… yes, they take it out on him.. Beranger went through the trouble of putting “Seigo” in cartoons. |
Jun 26 16:18 |
| Eruaran |
I know myself that people just do not listen |
Jun 26 16:18 |
| Eruaran |
And of course Microsoft would look at all this and be quite happy watching the community bleed itself |
Jun 26 16:19 |
| schestowitz |
That’s what I was going to approach. |
Jun 26 16:20 |
| schestowitz |
A friend of mine who is a professor has watch the BSDs and Linux for decades. He reckons Microsoft games it in subtle ways too. |
Jun 26 16:21 |
| schestowitz |
*watched |
Jun 26 16:21 |
| schestowitz |
He was also fascinated when I showed him this leak: http://www.groklaw.net/pdf/Comes-3096.pdf (Microsoft explains/is taught, among many things, that Microsoft should increase friction among rivals) |
Jun 26 16:22 |
| Eruaran |
“KDE 4.1. Beta 2 is aimed at testers, community members and enthusiasts in order to identify bugs and regressions, so that 4.1 can fully replace KDE 3 for end users” |
Jun 26 16:34 |
| schestowitz |
From KDE’s site? |
Jun 26 16:35 |
| Eruaran |
yes |
Jun 26 16:35 |
| Eruaran |
Lets see how many people who review it actually report it that way though… |
Jun 26 16:36 |
| schestowitz |
Remember the kernel hacker’s petition? Just found this: http://vizzzion.org/?blogentry=819 “nvidia.ko: The NVidia driver is the single component in a KDE4 / Free Operating system stack causing us most of the hard-to-solve problems. In other words, nvidia.ko has grave technical shortcomings.” |
Jun 26 16:36 |
| Eruaran |
yes |
Jun 26 16:36 |
| Eruaran |
And Aaron has taken a firm stand on that sort of thing |
Jun 26 16:37 |
| schestowitz |
Ubuntu devs used to complain (hopping mad) at AMD for making eye candy by default impossible. |
Jun 26 16:37 |
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Jun 26 16:37 |
| Eruaran |
The KDE devs are not going to hack about trying to fix something that is Nvidia’s fault |
Jun 26 16:37 |
| schestowitz |
I know this because I was there approaching them along with others like Phoronix and those who filed bug reports. |
Jun 26 16:38 |
| schestowitz |
Looking at post AMD’s big announcement archives, I spouted out some serious s* about them, calling people never to touch their products (I have an ATI card on this machines). I was not alone. |
Jun 26 16:39 |
| schestowitz |
hi, kentma! |
Jun 26 16:39 |
| kentma |
hi schestowitz! |
Jun 26 16:39 |
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Jun 26 16:43 |
| schestowitz |
Hi, PetoKraus. |
Jun 26 16:47 |
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Jun 26 16:54 |
| benJIman |
schestowitz: firefox final was pushed out with an online update within a few hours from release. |
Jun 26 16:56 |
| benJIman |
schestowitz: Also 3.5 is on the DVD, there is not a livecd installer for it. |
Jun 26 16:57 |
| schestowitz |
Thanks, that’s what I suspected (about Firefox). As for KDE 3.5, I though the installer was universal and had 3 options (DEs). |
Jun 26 16:59 |
| benJIman |
schestowitz: On the DVD yes. The livecds just dump the image onto disk like ubuntu. |
Jun 26 17:09 |
| schestowitz |
Hmmm… I never had a DVD drive (let alone a CD burner). Don’t ask. |
Jun 26 17:10 |
| benJIman |
Netinstall or whatever would be the same as dvd. |
Jun 26 17:11 |
| schestowitz |
Yes, I read about it the other day. I imagine not many people use it. The OpenSUSE site mentioned it only in a Lizard blog. |
Jun 26 17:11 |
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Jun 26 20:05 |
| AlbertoP |
You wrote: “OpenSUSE aficionados and Novell sympathisers teased us a little by claiming that OpenSUSE 11.0 was well received. They urged others to believe that there were no negative reviews, but there are actually quite a few, most of which will be shared on Saturday.” |
Jun 26 20:06 |
| AlbertoP |
could you provide a reference? |
Jun 26 20:06 |
| AlbertoP |
I mean a link where someone opensuse related stated that |
Jun 26 20:06 |
| schestowitz |
It was Francis, IIRC, who said this. |
Jun 26 20:07 |
| schestowitz |
Others, IIRC, sort of rode on his remarks. |
Jun 26 20:07 |
| AlbertoP |
well, link it or the post has zero value |
Jun 26 20:07 |
| schestowitz |
Hold on. |
Jun 26 20:07 |
| AlbertoP |
plus calling “reviews” review is an insult for real reviewers… |
Jun 26 20:08 |
| AlbertoP |
they’re opinions at best |
Jun 26 20:08 |
| schestowitz |
You are very assertive. I’ve just had a quick look, but I can’t find it quickly enough. Do a search for the recent OpenSUSE posts and you’ll see it. It’s one of the critiques. |
Jun 26 20:11 |
| AlbertoP |
no offence of course, but a review is a scientific process where you examine all the details, compare with others and write your conclusions… |
Jun 26 20:11 |
| AlbertoP |
what we read, as I wrote in a comment, are “experiences” |
Jun 26 20:12 |
| schestowitz |
Oh, I found one example. |
Jun 26 20:12 |
| AlbertoP |
good |
Jun 26 20:13 |
| schestowitz |
http://boycottnovell.com/2008… (it’s from the troll borgermaster, not Francis) |
Jun 26 20:13 |
| schestowitz |
AlbertoP, I agree about the use of the word review, but nowadays people even call a quick tour ‘a review’, so I don’t know anymore. |
Jun 26 20:13 |
| schestowitz |
Blogging lowered the barrier to publishers, so reviews can also consist a few paras. |
Jun 26 20:14 |
| AlbertoP |
well, the point is the value given to the review |
Jun 26 20:15 |
| AlbertoP |
a review on a blog is not scientific at all |
Jun 26 20:15 |
| AlbertoP |
most of the times they’re not detailed enough even to reproduce them |
Jun 26 20:15 |
| AlbertoP |
and the accuracy is under the soil |
Jun 26 20:16 |
| schestowitz |
Yes, if you’re being pedantic… word by word… |
Jun 26 20:16 |
| AlbertoP |
it’s not being pedantic, it’s being honest |
Jun 26 20:16 |
| schestowitz |
I wouldn’t have bothered with that last post if it wasn’t for remarks from OpenSUSE’s anonymous pos[t]ers. |
Jun 26 20:16 |
| AlbertoP |
a review should point out good and bad |
Jun 26 20:17 |
| AlbertoP |
with indications to reproduce the problems met |
Jun 26 20:17 |
| AlbertoP |
if this is not done, well, the review is, at best, a personal opinion |
Jun 26 20:17 |
| AlbertoP |
maybe reliable and honest, but not scientific |
Jun 26 20:18 |
| schestowitz |
Okay, are you done ranting about terminology? |
Jun 26 20:18 |
| AlbertoP |
no |
Jun 26 20:18 |
| benJIman |
“x.1: Bugfix to x.0 to get back to x-1.3 quality/support/compatibility.” is just laughable when you consider 10.1 |
Jun 26 20:18 |
| AlbertoP |
I’m just saying that your post about opensuse not being “well received” is simply unsupported |
Jun 26 20:18 |
| benJIman |
It’s not necessarily unsupportable, just you havn’t supported it. |
Jun 26 20:19 |
| AlbertoP |
and the statement “there are bad reviews when suse guys said the opposite” is unsupported as well, considering you didn’t link to anything |
Jun 26 20:19 |
| AlbertoP |
exactly benJIman |
Jun 26 20:19 |
| AlbertoP |
and well, usually ranting is done using other tones  |
Jun 26 20:20 |
| schestowitz |
AlbertoP, fine then. Later I’ll post a heap of OpenSUSE 11.0 rant, some of which are extensive. That’ll make you happier. |
Jun 26 20:21 |
| AlbertoP |
well, if supported, I’ll consider them helpful |
Jun 26 20:22 |
| AlbertoP |
so suse guys will fix the issues |
Jun 26 20:22 |
| schestowitz |
No problem. |
Jun 26 20:24 |
| AlbertoP |
all this people should really use bugzilla |
Jun 26 20:25 |
| schestowitz |
Yes, I know. I don’t post bad reviews. |
Jun 26 20:28 |
| AlbertoP |
well, a bad review, but with explanations, is _a_lot_ more useful than a good one |
Jun 26 20:30 |
| AlbertoP |
it tells you “hey! we did it wrong, we must fix it bad” |
Jun 26 20:30 |
| AlbertoP |
anyway, back to work |
Jun 26 20:31 |
| schestowitz |
Yes, agreed. But some people rant if they get angry or waste time. Susan Linton never does this; Beranger does this all the time. |
Jun 26 20:31 |
| AlbertoP |
oh well, I’m hypercritical with opensuse myself all the time, but well, there’s a distinction between “the problem I have” and “the whole quality of the distribution” |
Jun 26 20:32 |
| AlbertoP |
and this rarely appears in reviews |
Jun 26 20:32 |
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Jun 26 20:38 |
| schestowitz |
AlbertoP, especially for you, buddy: http://boycottnovell.com/20… . They are instrutive. |
Jun 26 21:24 |
| AlbertoP |
thansk |
Jun 26 21:25 |
| AlbertoP |
thanks* |
Jun 26 21:25 |
| schestowitz |
No problem. I’m off to bed now. |
Jun 26 21:25 |
| AlbertoP |
good night |
Jun 26 21:26 |
| RogerBacon |
give a break to open suse guy’s |
Jun 26 21:42 |
| RogerBacon |
|
Jun 26 21:42 |
| AlbertoP |
RogerBacon, actually that post just says opensuse is good in about 90% of the reviews ^^ |
Jun 26 21:53 |
| AlbertoP |
but well… |
Jun 26 21:53 |
| AlbertoP |
I’m the one who likes a “distribution with no directions”, because it takes the one I want >:) |
Jun 26 21:54 |
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Jun 26 22:33 |
