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06.28.08

IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: June 27th, 2008

Posted in IRC Logs at 6:53 am by Dr. Roy Schestowitz

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schestowitz Microsoft plays politics in Portugal again. I’ll write about it later: http://www.microsoft.com/emea/pre… Jun 27 07:16
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kentma hi chaps Jun 27 12:50
schestowitz Afternoon, kentma. Jun 27 12:51
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schestowitz wb, lis`. Jun 27 12:51
schestowitz kentma, there’s this really annoying stuff from Asay again. Jun 27 12:51
schestowitz I’ve just commented on it and mailed him and his pals. Jun 27 12:51
lis` ty & hello Jun 27 12:51
schestowitz The gist of it: he drinks and spilled the Kool-Aid. Jun 27 12:52
kentma schestowitz: in cola? Jun 27 12:52
schestowitz No, in his blog (CNET). It’s like global warning deniers… Jun 27 12:53
schestowitz He is fighting Linux with FUD. The Market Share Lie. Jun 27 12:53
schestowitz From the ‘conservative’ Microsoft-funded analysts themselves: http://www.informationweek.com/news/software… “Gartner estimates that the market share for desktop Linux is about 2% in the Asia-Pacific region, 4.5% in Eastern Europe, and 4% in the Middle East and Africa. By contrast, Linux holds 1.2% of the desktop market in the U.S.” Jun 27 12:54
kentma ahhh, okay.   Ah, it’s  a good weak spot, because there are no real stats on tthis, in fact, there never are any real stats… Jun 27 12:54
schestowitz Refrain from believing Web ‘surveys’ already, I’ve told him. An article about here touches the main points: http://itmanagement.earthweb…. Jun 27 12:54
schestowitz Case of point, from yesterday: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2… ( AVG disguises fake traffic as IE6) Jun 27 12:54
kentma quite!  good example. Jun 27 12:54
schestowitz That’s not even counting the 320 million zombies and other issues like sampling a biased population that care nada about privacy. Jun 27 12:55
kentma I’m looking at the debate on binary kernel drivers atm. Jun 27 12:56
schestowitz You know what led to this? Jun 27 12:56
kentma Umm? Jun 27 12:56
schestowitz Siemens Business Systems on the future of the Linux desktop: 20 percent market share by 2008.  “We didn’t see Linux on the desktop as a major market, but we were wrong.” Jun 27 12:56
schestowitz Probably very well exaggerated, but it depends on definition of ‘computer’ Jun 27 12:57
schestowitz And Siemens are of course big Microsoft partners and lobbyists for swpatents in Europe. #1 lobbyist inn fact, based on FFII. Jun 27 12:57
kentma Sounds far more realistic.  The number of large changeovers would suggest that there is a huge number of linux machines out there, the problem is the 3-technology issue I keep driving at.  Linux is happily consolidating the old stuff onto laptops, but it’s *also* grabbing the new stuff on mobility & appliances.# Jun 27 12:57
schestowitz Anyway, I didn’t link directly to Asay because he’s a Mac user living in a cloud. But he’s of course cursing and making fun. He gets punished by comments. Jun 27 12:58
kentma maybe he gets paid for this, though? Jun 27 12:59
kentma hits, I mean. Jun 27 13:00
schestowitz Yes, he’s at CNET, but that’s not why he’s doing it. Jun 27 13:00
schestowitz He has slammed linux desktops for a while and he tries to convince himself that his choice (of Macs) is the right thing. He’s also friends with Microsoft people, which makes it always a little weird… Jun 27 13:01
kentma This probably reflects his revenue lines.  Macs are quite nice, and for many people, would make a suitable replacement for a legacy Windows destkop, but it remains desirable to get onto open-formats using foss components, so in the end, the Mac will probably lose out because it will have nothing to offer over a foss mobile device or appliance.  Even so, it’ll be a few years before that process is completed. Jun 27 13:03
schestowitz Well, Apple ignored Linux. It’s the most affective thing for them to do. Takeaway point (related to the above): Microsoft is brainwashing a lot of people, even in the OSS world (directly or indirectly). De Icaza is merely the extremity of it. Jun 27 13:03
schestowitz BTW, for a laugh, see what I just found: http://www.smh.com.au/news/biztech/fijis-fu… “Fiji’s military government has written to the software giant Microsoft demanding the company not use their country name in any of its products.” Jun 27 13:04
kentma Haha!  :-) Jun 27 13:04
schestowitz Nobody wants to be associated with a Vista sibling. Jun 27 13:04
kentma oops got a popup advert from that one Jun 27 13:05
schestowitz Fiji, like Home Corruption Server and WS08 (worse downtime than WS03) are both Vista remade. Fiji too. Jun 27 13:05
schestowitz After Fiji (media centre), nobody would ever board a plan to Fiji . “It might crash,” they’ll say. Jun 27 13:05
kentma that is hysterical.  I’ve just circulated it on an internal foss list. Jun 27 13:09
kentma another foss list. Jun 27 13:10
schestowitz Reply from Asay (by E-mail, which I think is a bit rude): “Oh, geez.  give me a break, Roy!  4.5% in Eastern Europe, if true…who cares?  No one is going to stop using Linux tomorrow because of anything I put on that blog, and you know that nothing I said was intended to dissuade Linux adoption.  You need to relax a bit on this. “ Jun 27 13:12
schestowitz He never gave a s* about Linux. He’s all about “open source” as a development method. He doesn’t care (or understand) much about Freedom, which is why he disrespects Stallman too. Jun 27 13:13
kentma If he really believed that his blog was worthless, then he wouldn’t do it at all.  As this is clearly untrue, the rest of the response can be taken with a pinch of salt, I suspect. Jun 27 13:13
kentma He’s just interested in his revenue, which I guess is from Apple, MS and hits from Cnet. Jun 27 13:13
schestowitz Well, he’s at Alfresco where almost everyone seems to be using Macs. Jun 27 13:14
schestowitz They are what one BN reader recently called (coined): OSH Jun 27 13:14
kentma gosh, osh? Jun 27 13:15
schestowitz Open Source Hypocrite, like Google. Jun 27 13:15
kentma aha okay Jun 27 13:15
kentma :-) Jun 27 13:15
schestowitz He’s right. Jun 27 13:15
schestowitz They luuuuuve open source. Jun 27 13:15
schestowitz They love using it, they use it for marketing, but what they sell is a development method, not freedom. Jun 27 13:15
schestowitz It’s a pleasure for Microsoft when people do this. Jun 27 13:15
kentma I think some people really are just in everything for their own, immediate, gain.  I’ve never been that kind of person, I’m more sort of vocational and interested in the greater good, so I find such people a little hard to understand. Jun 27 13:16
schestowitz It’s upbringing perhaps. Some of them are actually in it because the altruism elevates; to some it’s just a nice wave to ride on. Jun 27 13:19
schestowitz There’s freeloading (using FOSS and giving none in return) and there’s wave-riding where you see hype in ‘open source’ and the  abuse/explain the brand (open source fakers). Jun 27 13:19
kentma There are some people who specialise in riding particular waves.  Malcolm Gladwell’s tipping point book investigates this in some detail. Jun 27 13:24
schestowitz Trend spotting? Some people do this in SEO, but that’s another issue. I see a lot of people who abuse the term “open source” by putting it in headline of unrelated articles. Jun 27 13:27
kentma Not just that, but he also investigates others, some who are “social glue”, some who are “trend setters”, and so on.  It’s an interesting book, doesn’t take long to read.  Your library can probably get you a copy. Jun 27 13:28
kentma But I agree, some of those people are merely getting whatever they can from the bandwagon. Jun 27 13:28
schestowitz Microsoft and Noell too. Jun 27 13:29
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schestowitz kentma, maybe you could assist with a comment? http://boycottnovell.com/2008… (this has been viewed probably by thousands by now and BBC apologists appear out of nowhere). Jun 27 13:38
schestowitz Eruaran, see this when you get the time: http://beranger.org/index.php?page=… Jun 27 13:42
kentma okay, will take a look Jun 27 13:43
schestowitz Eruaran, more here http://www.ereslibre.es/?p=107 and here http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/3534 Jun 27 13:48
schestowitz tessier, see your hero: http://www.wired.com/politic… Jun 27 14:06
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schestowitz CNN FUD spotted (CNN Money, no less, which typically does the Microsoft boosting):  http://askfsb.blogs.fsb.cnn.com/200… (“You get what you pay for. That axiom will always hold true.”) Jun 27 14:21
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kentma schestowitz: okay, I’ve put  a rant on Jun 27 14:28
schestowitz Thanks for that. Very witty, concise, and compelling. It’s actually [H]omer  who put up the video, but having linked to it, it gets a lot more exposure for the time being. Jun 27 14:30
kentma It’s good to see it up there, and good to see that the interest in the whole issue remains strong. Jun 27 14:44
kentma I did my writing very quickly, as I was about to go onto an audio call, so didn’t get chance to review it.  I’d’ve re-written a few bits, but it gets the idea across very well, I think.  It’s amazing that there are still people out there trying to spin this, even after someone quit their job over it. Jun 27 14:45
schestowitz I can see the IPs and E-mails in the back end, but it spears now to be BBC employees, some of whom did comment in the site before. It’s a shame that people no longer protest; that means that the crooks get their way. That’s what they hope for anyway; that time will heal the wound (money is already in the bank). Same with OOXML. Jun 27 14:47
schestowitz I can’t help but think about post WW2 stories when I see Microsoft and ISO talk about OOXML. Jun 27 14:48
schestowitz Spotted just a while ago: http://in.reuters.com/article/tech… “Irrespective of the outcome of the current appeals, we are confident that the robustness of the system will again lead to the answer the market place wishes to see and, in fact, reinforce ISO’s credibility,” he said. (Alan Bryden) Jun 27 14:49
kentma What on earth does that mean?  It’s hard to see how marketplace pressure relates to the standardisation process, and I’m amazed that Mr Bryden would even suggest that he responds to market pressure rather than to procedure. Jun 27 14:52
schestowitz They are whitewashing, and worry not as I’ll blast them later; I’ve probably been the most vocal critic of ISO and someone event added BN.com to the references in Wikipedia’s article about ISO. There’s old ISO and new ISO — the new one being the one from which the core people fled (after Microsoft’s first attacks in 2007) Jun 27 14:53
kentma I hope the UKUUG continue their legal action against BSI, too.  Everything which keeps the pressure on is good, here. Jun 27 14:58
schestowitz They’ll try to rewrite history at the end, regardless. I also see this everywhere else. See some more Microsoft ass-wiping in the British press (found minutes ago): http://www.computing.co.uk/comput… Jun 27 14:59
schestowitz As long as Microsoft owns the media (and is unethical enough to bribe/’compensate’), they own perception. Jun 27 15:00
kentma Their influence is waning, though.  I think we’re seeing their swansong in this area. Jun 27 15:02
kentma solrry – hearing :-) Jun 27 15:02
schestowitz Google becomes eerily similar over time (darling of the media), but what’s concerning is that media still admires the mighty buck more than it cherishes Truth (truth doesn’t sell papers these days, nor does it pay a bob… under the table). Jun 27 15:03
schestowitz We had a discussion here the other day about PC magazines and how the reviewed are ‘bought’, including those of Vista. It’s a filthy industry where hardware reviews are involved too. Jun 27 15:04
kentma Politics has kind of de-radicalised since the 1960s and 1970s.  People just don’t give a t*ss about these things, in general. Jun 27 15:04
kentma Oh, the “buying” of reviewers has been rife in magazines for years.  If you look back in cola archives, you’ll see where I describe the offer to “buy” a good review from a music instrument magazine when I was working for a company developing and electronic piano. Jun 27 15:05
schestowitz There’s hope that media will be further decentralised… as it is now. Then there are AstroTurfers to worry about. Jun 27 15:05
schestowitz kentma,  watch this: http://www.fsdaily.com/Community/The_… (skip to minute 43). It’s true then that Linus just doesn’t like the GPL _in general_. It’s not just GPLv3. Jun 27 15:29
kentma Perhaps, in due  course, there will be an alternative to the Linux kernel which might get around this, but presently, I’m afraid that we’re stuck with it. Jun 27 16:33
schestowitz I’ve heard for people who hope for a replacement (I’m not one of them) and the guy whose blog pointed me at this video is still hoping for Hurd. Jun 27 16:34
kentma The Hurd will, perhaps one day, deliver, but I think it’s too complex, and also running in the face of massive support for the Linux kernel.  Perhaps a new generation of coders might take the Hurd forward, but I don’t think it’ll be significant in my career. Jun 27 16:35
schestowitz Linus spoke about “world domination” some time ago. The danger is that by ‘winning’ under these terms, what is truly won? A cheap Mac OS X? Or freedom which ought to triumph? Trust me, I didn’t sacrifice my life just to make Linus and Miguel the next Woz and Jobs. Jun 27 16:36
*RogerBacon (i=RogerBac@bas3-sherbrooke40-1177839065.dsl.bell.ca) has joined #boycottnovell Jun 27 17:31
RogerBacon I THERE, WAZZUP ? Jun 27 17:31
schestowitz NOVL Jun 27 17:33
schestowitz Just slightly though because of some ‘analyst’. Jun 27 17:34
RogerBacon does linux have any good DAW Jun 27 17:34
RogerBacon ? Jun 27 17:34
RogerBacon i only know ardour Jun 27 17:34
schestowitz Check out the blog of Studio Dave in Linux  Journal. He covers loads. Jun 27 17:36
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schestowitz *LOL* Doug just sent me this: BBC on billg and Windows security : Oh, the irony, have to disable noscript in order to hear the supreme architects words of wisdom : http://img149.imageshack.us/img14… : http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/tech… Jun 27 19:49
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PetoKraus HA! I told you it was a Wine bug… with wine 1.1.0, the ATI opengl display problem is fixed… Jun 27 22:44
schestowitz Wine is always feature incomplete. ;-) Jun 27 22:45
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PetoKraus yes, Guild Wars still doesn’t work with FGLRX Jun 27 22:48
schestowitz Have you seen Michael’s latest (and huge) review? Jun 27 22:50
PetoKraus no Jun 27 22:51
PetoKraus wine-related? Jun 27 22:51
schestowitz No, ATI (MAD). Jun 27 22:52
schestowitz *AMD Jun 27 22:52
PetoKraus the 8-page long one? Jun 27 22:54
schestowitz Yes. I haven’t read it all, but I’ll link to it in a few moments. Jun 27 22:55
*schestowitz off to bed now Jun 27 23:03
PetoKraus gn here as well Jun 27 23:04
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