IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: August 3rd, 2008

Posted in IRC Logs at 4:35 am by Dr. Roy Schestowitz

Enter the IRC channel now

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schestowitz It seems to turn out that IP, not just patent law, is  madness. http://williampatry.blogspot.c… http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/n… Aug 03 14:09
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kentma schestowitz: interesting – mark kent linux now throws up the Digg of my Joe Barr obit as the first hit – which is, in fact, quite good. Aug 03 15:09
kentma I’ve changed the digest title a little, though, in order to continue to throw this stuff the right way.  We can all play “manipulate the search engine”, I think. Aug 03 15:09
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schestowitz I wouldn’t want to do that. Just let it do its thing. Aug 03 15:10
kentma I’m very much hoping that it will continue to do its thing. Aug 03 15:10
schestowitz Meanwhile, “Tim Smith” spreads some more libel about me in Digg. He’s stalking and he’s accusing me in the comments of using automated tools, which is rubbish. Aug 03 15:10
kentma They are nasty people. Aug 03 15:11
schestowitz There’s no way to stop this. Aug 03 15:13
schestowitz I sometimes wonder why they don’t attack ‘Big Guns’. Aug 03 15:13
kentma They do attack big guns, all the time. Aug 03 15:13
_Doug There’s another department to attack the big guns. Aug 03 15:13
schestowitz Which one, _Doug? Aug 03 15:13
_Doug Smithy an CO are there to disrupt COLA .. Aug 03 15:13
_Doug Wagner and CO, and pretend unbiased tech reporters. Aug 03 15:14
schestowitz So CompIA et all attack the executives? Aug 03 15:14
_Doug And people they get to join standards comittees .. Aug 03 15:14
kentma manipulation of standards has always been an issue, but it’s never been so overt as it is presently. Aug 03 15:16
schestowitz It has been criminal. Aug 03 15:17
schestowitz take for example the incidents from Malaysia. Aug 03 15:17
schestowitz http://technocrat.net/d/2008/… (more in the comments) Aug 03 15:18
_Doug Here’s Waggener Edstrom planning to sabatage ‘the anticipated OSDL announcement’ Aug 03 15:18
_Doug http://edge-op.org/iowa/www.iowaconsumerc… Aug 03 15:18
schestowitz There was also something from O’Gara, no? Aug 03 15:18
_Doug Which one :) Aug 03 15:19
schestowitz Oh yeah… Aug 03 15:19
schestowitz That’s the one. Aug 03 15:19
schestowitz PJ covered this before, no? Aug 03 15:19
schestowitz Tried to find it. Found some libel ( http://floatingpoint.wordpress.com/… ) and this: http://www.groklaw.net/articlebas… Aug 03 15:21
kentma http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/librar… Aug 03 15:21
kentma Roy – this is coming up … ah – hang on… Aug 03 15:21
kentma http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/libr… Aug 03 15:21
kentma Sorry – *that* is coming up as “cannot be displayed” – it’s the PS3 IBM article you posted a summary of. Aug 03 15:22
schestowitz What a bunch of criminals. They use reported for what they call “a plant”. Aug 03 15:22
kentma Hmm, both sn1t and gary stewart are trying to start x-posting flame wars again.  It always disappoints me when I see so many folk respond to them. Aug 03 15:28
kentma schestowitz: do you have a correction for the PS3 article, at all? Aug 03 15:29
_Doug An honerable mention should also be made of ‘Dan Lyons’, he was a Linux advocate before he went on to stalk Steve Jobs .. Aug 03 15:30
schestowitz I’m sure it worked before. I just copy and paste it. Should I post a correction? Aug 03 15:31
schestowitz _Doug:  yeah, it’s interesting that they do, after all, harass the Big guns too. Apple gave him Hell. Aug 03 15:32
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_Doug So what’s interesting in Linux land, I’ve been a little distracted recently .. :) Aug 03 15:41
schestowitz Someone cited in The Inquirer claims that 3% if the PC _shipments_ in the UK are not Linux. Aug 03 15:42
schestowitz *now, not “not” :-) Aug 03 15:43
kentma schestowitz: if you have a correct, it would be useful Aug 03 15:43
kentma correction. Aug 03 15:43
_Doug I need to go and water the flowers .. back in five .. Aug 03 15:44
schestowitz In IRC? Can’t modify, I don’t think so. Aug 03 15:45
kentma the posting was in cola, but the link is broken. Aug 03 15:45
schestowitz BTW, that link ( http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/… ) had something weird happening Aug 03 15:46
kentma that’s fine… Aug 03 15:47
schestowitz What does “%3D” translate to? Aug 03 15:47
schestowitz I think it’s slrn’s fault. Aug 03 15:48
kentma it’s possible, although the tiny url was also not working. Aug 03 15:48
schestowitz it’s a charset thing.I use utf-8. Aug 03 15:49
kentma but how would that affect the tiny url? Aug 03 15:49
schestowitz Oh! Well, that might be the issue. Tinyurl issue? I use a browser plugin for that (Tiny URLs). Aug 03 15:50
kentma both were affected, though. Aug 03 15:51
schestowitz BTW, Digg has gotten so weird recently. So many submissions, they might sell (OUT) to Google and items with well over 100 Diggs don’t make the FP. It’s such a weird thing what has happened to Digg over the years. I still think I left the most comments there (among users). Aug 03 15:51
schestowitz http://digg.com/linux_unix/10_icons_… Aug 03 15:52
kentma Does anyone still use themes.org? Aug 03 16:07
kentma ah, there’s my answer, it doesn’t exist. Aug 03 16:07
schestowitz what about kde-looks and gnome-look? Aug 03 16:09
kentma ? Aug 03 16:10
schestowitz There’s a series of sites for DE addons. See http://www.gnome-look.org/ (navigation in the links on the left… it’s a series) Aug 03 16:12
kentma ah, I see.  themes.org used to gather lots together, though.  It was an attractive site, as it was mostly purveying eye-candy :-) Aug 03 16:13
schestowitz Just found some interesting comments in http://www.groklaw.net/comment.php?mo… Aug 03 16:14
schestowitz “Let us [briefly] count the ways. Aug 03 16:15
schestowitz 1. How many PR firms does Microsoft use these days? Aug 03 16:15
schestowitz 2. How many “independent laboratories” did Microsoft pay in its TOC campaign against Linux? Aug 03 16:15
schestowitz 3. How many “usual suspect” journalists would testify to the DoJ that Microsoft never ever paid or offered consideration for their “reporting”? Aug 03 16:15
schestowitz 4. How many Million Dollars did Microsoft transfer to tSCOg while tSCOg was actively attacking Linux? Aug 03 16:15
schestowitz Disclaimer – some of the above may be technically legal – but still may lead to sanctions if corporate governance agencies around the world believe that Microsoft performed in bad faith.” Aug 03 16:15
kentma The cleverest kinds of corruption are those which are, apparently legal, and yet break the spirit of competition law and/or trading law effectively. Aug 03 16:16
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schestowitz OOXML has many such examples, but they broke the law too. Aug 03 16:17
schestowitz Laws broken (I have a comment there too): http://technocrat.net/d/2008/7/3… Aug 03 16:17
schestowitz “There is no question that all over the world the competing interests in the Open XML standardization process are going to use all tactics available to them within the rules. Microsoft and its partners (particularly those who have bet their businesses on Open XML), continue to advocate that it is best to enable our customers to choose the technology that best meets the needs of their business.” Aug 03 16:18
schestowitz Said Microsoft’s arrogant xenophobe Jason Matusow http://blogs.msdn.com/jasonmatusow/archiv… Aug 03 16:19
schestowitz Stephane reckons that the instructions that involve law-breaking probaly go back to some ECMA folks and Brian Jones. These people are ruthless but none would end up in jail. It’s a lot of the same in the US government that can get away with slaughter of civilians using lies. Aug 03 16:20
kentma the only company which has bet itself on OOXML is Microsoft, I think.  At least one British Library character has bet his career on it, though. Aug 03 16:20
schestowitz Haha. Adam farquhar Aug 03 16:21
kentma That’s the man. Aug 03 16:21
kentma He really shouldn’t have done this. Aug 03 16:21
schestowitz Well, he has friends there and there was a big shout against the British Library giving centuries-old assets to Microsoft… well, forcing people to buy spyware from a convicted monopolies in order to have access to these assets. Aug 03 16:22
schestowitz *monopolist Aug 03 16:23
schestowitz I can’t check who he’s connected to… http://www.linkedin.com/ppl/webp… Aug 03 16:24
_Doug Snoooozzzzzz … Aug 03 16:24
schestowitz “Partners include national libraries, national archives, Universities, Microsoft, IBM, Tessella, and ARC. “ Aug 03 16:25
kentma well he’s not linked to me! Aug 03 16:27
_Doug Didn’t MS suddenly drop the project with the BL? Aug 03 16:27
schestowitz He’s linked to me somehow. Aug 03 16:27
kentma Is he?  interesting. Aug 03 16:27
schestowitz To give you the details, it’s via this guy: Romualdas Maciulis ( http://www.linkedin.com/profile?viewProfi… ) Aug 03 16:28
schestowitz I’ve just posted this < http://boycottnovell.com/2008/… > about the phenomenon. It’s related. Aug 03 16:29
kentma apparently, I have 10 separate link routes to Mr Romualdas, so presumably, I’m also linked indirectly to Mr Farquar Aug 03 16:33
kentma Ah, Maciulis is marketing… Aug 03 16:33
schestowitz Back in the days, the BBC-Microsoft links were shown using LinkedIn. Aug 03 16:34
kentma Adam Farquhar seems to be not British. Aug 03 16:34
kentma Perhaps that’s why he’s so willing to give up our library? Aug 03 16:35
schestowitz He studies in the US, no? Aug 03 16:35
schestowitz I haven’t checked, but I thought he studies in a UK Uni? Aug 03 16:35
kentma HIs 1st degree was there, too. Aug 03 16:35
kentma University of Texas. Aug 03 16:36
schestowitz Republican? :-) Aug 03 16:36
kentma Quite… Aug 03 16:37
schestowitz Have you seen my post about Dell and TM? Aug 03 16:37
kentma Um, when was it? Aug 03 16:37
kentma I might’ve missed it. Aug 03 16:37
schestowitz It’s like the Texan governance grants this Hardware Department another monopoly. Forget about EU marketing “cloud computing”. Aug 03 16:37
kentma BTW, I’ve just posted on JAIN SLEE. Aug 03 16:37
kentma Ah, okay. Aug 03 16:37
schestowitz It was adjacent to the post about copyrights dying. Aug 03 16:37
kentma ah, yes, saw that one. Aug 03 16:38
schestowitz Do trademarks apply overseas? Or only if you export? Aug 03 16:38
kentma I really don’t know about that. Aug 03 16:38
schestowitz Have you seen McCreevy’s background? See Wikipedia. Aug 03 16:39
kentma Is there more to reveal then? Aug 03 16:39
kentma Publish and be damned! Aug 03 16:39
schestowitz How so? Aug 03 16:39
kentma McCreevy’s background, I meant.  It was tic Aug 03 16:48
_Doug McAfee to snap up Reconnex for $46m Aug 03 17:02
_Doug http://www.vnunet.com/vnunet/ne… Aug 03 17:02
schestowitz F* MacAfee :-) Aug 03 17:03
schestowitz They are FOSS-hostile. Aug 03 17:03
_Doug yet more snakeoil, the best way to protect a system, is to build in into the system, nit tack on feetures later on .. Aug 03 17:03
schestowitz I suppose you read about WanKare preintsalls…? I sent it to Pj for GL. Aug 03 17:04
_Doug When I worked in an IT shop, we used regularly get threatening phone calsl from the local rep, Aug 03 17:04
schestowitz What for? Aug 03 17:04
_Doug To pay for AV ‘licenses’ Aug 03 17:04
moparx :/ Aug 03 17:05
_Doug What’s WanKare .. sounds rude Aug 03 17:05
schestowitz Mandriva has this built in. ;-) It’s a function, not a product. Aug 03 17:05
schestowitz OneCare. Aug 03 17:05
schestowitz http://boycottnovell.com/2008/… Aug 03 17:08
_Doug Well I guess it’ll piss off the AV firms, which is why they need to mave to new product. Aug 03 17:13
_Doug To be effective security has to be built into the core. Aug 03 17:14
_Doug “Windows Live OneCare currently features an integrated anti-virus program, firewall, backup and restore utility, tune-up utility with the integrated functionality of Windows Defender for malware protection” Aug 03 17:14
_Doug SNORT !!! Aug 03 17:15
schestowitz “Would you like security with that new $1000 Vista PC, sir?” … “that’ll be another $20 per year… or be owned. Aug 03 17:16
_Doug “A two-way firewall protects against trojan or other viral infections running on the local computer” .. well DOH !! Aug 03 17:16
schestowitz The Microsoft product got slammed so many times, include the firewall. It’s in COLA somewhere, and I could find it. Aug 03 17:16
schestowitz It’s akin to Netscape because superior products get run over by Microsoft through bundles with partners.. Aug 03 17:17
schestowitz Someone has just mailed in to say: “There is one year left for Yahoo.  The board has just been given the triple suppository death: http://infotech.indiatimes.com/Y… Aug 03 17:57
schestowitz “…will expand its board to 11 members from nine and result in Icahn joining the board… former AOL CEO Jonathan Miller was named as a potential director, but AOL parent Time Warner Inc said…” Aug 03 17:57
kentma ah, yahoo are dead then. Aug 03 17:58
kentma watch the shareprice rise on speculation… Aug 03 17:58
schestowitz Rise? Aug 03 17:58
schestowitz Well, if being swallowed by a monster counts… Aug 03 17:59
kentma there will surely be some expectation of a new offer, so prices will rise until the offer has been effectively “discounted”, then there’ll be little movement until it gets close to the date. Aug 03 18:00
kentma ah, just found out what type of sat card I need for a 2nd myth box, this one doing satellite (of course). Aug 03 18:01
schestowitz Neuros ‘bypasses’ that Sat. it does YouTube. Aug 03 18:02
schestowitz BTW, cable/sat are at danger because of models like YouTube (Internet video) just as newspapers are slaughtered by blogs and such. They use DRM and lawsuits (abuse of copyrights) to fight this FOSS is in a similar sandbox… with swpatents. AP is the latest example of using IPR excessively and ignoring FAIR USE. Aug 03 18:08
_Doug got to go … Aug 03 18:26
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schestowitz Hmmm… weird. Just visited http://www.linuxhaxor.net/2008/0… and the trackback at the bottom is a usenet post of mine?? Spotted this by serendipity. Aug 03 18:41
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schestowitz Interesting stats: “11 percent have already made the switch to Mac OS X or Linux. ” http://vista.blorge.com/2008/08/0… Aug 03 20:05
kentma that’s a huge %age Aug 03 20:25
schestowitz Well, based on a survey anyway. Aug 03 20:26
schestowitz In Microsoft Watch, Joe showed a survey from the enterprise. Linux was shown to be used more than Macs (on the desktop). Aug 03 20:26
kentma I’ve suspected this for a very long time.  Anything free is  bound, in the end, to become the dominant “thing”, so long as in other respects, it’s at least 1/2 as good as what it’s replacing.  Linux is better than the incumbent, not worse, so I have no doubts here. Aug 03 20:28
kentma btw – did you seee my cola posting on JAIN SLEE? Aug 03 20:29
schestowitz Yes, I have. Not replied to it though. As for Linux, it leaped ahead of its competition. My friends are wowed when they see Linux. I have it set up quite nicely. Aug 03 20:30
schestowitz Rex has just stated this, which I found interesting: “””Microsoft has now lost over 110 billion in market cap. This is based on current outstanding shares and price decline over the year. This doesn’t take into account Microsoft’s stock buy-back, including purchase of shares owned by Bill Gates and Steve Ballmer, which were purchased to keep the sales from flooding the market and crashing the stock price.”” Aug 03 20:35
kentma I wonder if anyone will.  To a great extent, it’s about addressing the “jnetX” quote from me, and what it really means.  Timmy, Terekov and Gary totally misunderstand the issue – JAIN SLEE is about opening platforms, so owning your own applications is possible, just like on linux, as opposed to say, using Word on Windows, which is owned by Microsoft. Aug 03 20:35
kentma schestowitz: Wow!  it’s collapsing very fast now. Aug 03 20:35
schestowitz >It was 90 billion when [H]omer wrote about it 1.5 weeks ago. Aug 03 20:36
kentma US$20bn in 1.5 weeks… Aug 03 20:36
kentma no wonder the munchkins are getting nasty. Aug 03 20:36
schestowitz Well, Midori and all (yahoo too) could be blamed… Aug 03 20:37
schestowitz Rex’ mesage as a whole is pretty good. Aug 03 20:37
schestowitz    <e80a7672-51a6-4caa-b2b0-795a8183 3d7f@y21g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> Aug 03 20:37
kentma Anyway, in order to address the search engine issues, I’ve put my name in the digest title – I hope you and everyone else don’t mind about that.  It wasn’t my original choice, but… Aug 03 20:37
kentma bizzarelly, pidgin interprets your last url as “mailto” Aug 03 20:38
schestowitz That’s good. I’ll be saturated with the many terms therein, so the SERPs won’t contain the libel against you, in due time. Aug 03 20:38
kentma Yeah, that was my plan – thanks for your support.  Just reading Rex’s post now – it’s very good.  Rex goes through phases, but overall, I enjoy his posts. Aug 03 20:39
kentma interestingly, “mark kent linux” now produces the joe barr obit on BN as the 1st hit :-) Aug 03 20:40
kentma aha – no – update,  it has today’s digest as the 1st hit, and then joe barr on BN as the 2nd main hit! Aug 03 20:42
kentma it works! Aug 03 20:43
kentma hahahahahahahahahahahahhaah! Aug 03 20:43
kentma (sorry) Aug 03 20:43
schestowitz Rex repeats the same stories. Aug 03 20:43
kentma That’s a fault of the aged, I’m afraid.  My dad’s been doing the same thing for many years… I’ve heard so many sea stories, I can’t recall them all – he was a RN man. Aug 03 20:44
schestowitz I like the posts from Rex. It’s just interesting how he gets ‘latched onto the same storyline and then it’s like a lecture. RMS is the same. Aug 03 20:45
schestowitz BTW, that libelous thread decays over time (like most, esp. from USENET). It’s still ‘fresh’ in some mirrors and in USENET, that’s all. Aug 03 20:48
kentma My Mrs accuses me of lecturing her all the time.  Just occasionally, she’s probably right… Aug 03 20:51
schestowitz Debates are good… among people who like them. Aug 03 20:53
schestowitz Some people hate debating (they prefer chatting about celebrities and stuff) and there are people who are more annoyed than fascinated by political debates. Aug 03 20:54
kentma Real debate is fine – the kind of stuff we mostly see on cola is not debate, it’s abuse of the most unpleasant kind.  Oddly, it’s got worse over time – it used to be not too bad, but as we’ve migrated cola increasingly to a pro linux position, then the debate has descended into the vitriolic cr4p we see now. Aug 03 20:54
schestowitz Well, I don’t see it. :-) I have filters. Aug 03 20:55
moparx what would you do without a kill file ;) Aug 03 20:56
schestowitz The more insults from the trolls, the better. It means the forums needs to be ‘shut/shot down’, so we’re on the right topic. Aug 03 20:56
schestowitz I could get Windows Home Server. Word on the street is that it kill your files… silently. Aug 03 20:57
schestowitz Another blow for Microsoft, fresh from the news: http://www.chinatechnews.com/2008/08… Aug 03 20:58
kentma Fair point! Aug 03 20:58
schestowitz Some people in the authority attempted to deny this 1-2 month ago, but the articles stayed mixed, depending on the sources. Aug 03 20:58
kentma wow “a good case can be made that the Chinese software pirates are working towards creating a monopoly in China.”! Aug 03 20:59
schestowitz yes Gtaes gave them a smoking gun. Aug 03 20:59
kentma He probably didn’t inhale, though… Aug 03 20:59
schestowitz In Fortune, IIRC, he admitted that he needs ‘piracy’ (insulting the Chinese people) to better compete with GNU/Linux. Aug 03 21:00
schestowitz Gates doesn’t have many smoking guns. They say that he always pases the dirty jobs to his colleagues. Aug 03 21:00
schestowitz If only I could rtemember where to find that quote. Aug 03 21:00
kentma It’s like saying that we need to dumb down engineering in order to attract more women and ethnic minorities – I find the argument repellant. Aug 03 21:01
schestowitz That’s like Vista and DRM. “Cutting off the legs of all athletes to see who hobbles best on crutches” Aug 03 21:02
kentma uk – nasty but funny :-) Aug 03 21:02
schestowitz Gutmann’s analogy. Aug 03 21:03
kentma anyway, off to find a beer – c u 2morrow Aug 03 21:04
kentma or maybe l8r :-) Aug 03 21:04
schestowitz Will do. Aug 03 21:04
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  22. The UPC and Unitary Patent Song

    On goes the UPC symphony, as the Unified Patent Court (UPC) is almost here, always coming "real soon!"

  23. Open Letter to the German Greens on UPC and Software Patents: Don’t Betray Your Voters and Your Promises, or You Will Regret it

    Dear Members of the German Greens in the Bundestag. By Benjamin HENRION.

  24. [Meme] One Step Away From Replacing Patent Examiners With 'Hey Hi' (AI)

    If it's not legal for 'Hey Hi' (AI) to get a patent, why should it be legal for patents to be granted by those who are invisible (and sometimes in de facto house arrest)?

  25. European Patent Office (EPO) Reduced to 'Justice Over the Telephone' and Decree by E-mail

    The EPO is trashing the EPC and everything that the Office was supposed to stand for, as it wrongly assumes demand for monopolies (typically from foreign corporations) comes before the rule of law and Europe's public interest

  26. Making Free Software Work for Users

    The latest reply to a non-developer concerned about software freedom; guest post by figosdev

  27. IRC Proceedings: Wednesday, November 25, 2020

    IRC logs for Wednesday, November 25, 2020

  28. Links 26/11/2020: AV Linux 2020.11.23 and Blender 2.91 Release

    Links for the day

  29. Links 25/11/2020: GamerOS and Biden Transition in Motion

    Links for the day

  30. An Orwellian December

    With December around the corner and states tightening the screws on the population (or employers on employees) at least we can look forward to spring

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