IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: August 11th, 2008

Posted in IRC Logs at 4:36 am by Dr. Roy Schestowitz

Enter the IRC channel now

twitter I’ve got to film the Linux Desktop SIG at the CCCC Open House.  Ed Richards puts on a good show with movies and music as well as the usual computer display. Aug 11 00:02
schestowitz Ed Richards? Aug 11 00:04
twitter He’s the SIG leader here in Baton Rouge. Aug 11 00:05
twitter EE who’s been running Xandros at his workplace for years.  Used to be a Xandros person but seems to be moving to PCLinuxOS and Ubuntu Aug 11 00:06
twitter This page is dated but it has links to others http://lists.clickers.org/linuxsig/ Aug 11 00:07
twitter The CCCC is a fairly large club that’s been around since the 80′s.  The Linux Desktop SIG is now one of it’s biggest classes. Aug 11 00:08
schestowitz Goodness me… I thought I had gone Soviet. Aug 11 00:08
twitter I think that’s CCCP. Aug 11 00:08
schestowitz Stalinix. *LOL* Aug 11 00:09
twitter Someone else did the red and yellow theme.  I like the FSF’s plain style better but the red is nice. Aug 11 00:11
twitter CCCC is Cajun Clickers Computer Club, http://clickers.org Aug 11 00:11
twitter It was made when someone needed to swap floppies. Aug 11 00:12
schestowitz I’ve come across it before. Aug 11 00:12
twitter That’s interesting. Aug 11 00:12
twitter Where? Aug 11 00:12
schestowitz I can’t remember. There are all sort of groups and projects I hop across, so it leaves a mental mark. Aug 11 00:12
twitter I’ve used it as a homepage on Slashdot and pointed to it a few times.  I’d be more interested if it came from someone else. Aug 11 00:13
twitter Ed has been a big poster on Xandros forums and goes on a radio show, so you might have run into it through his promotional efforts. Aug 11 00:15
schestowitz It’s easier if there’s a permalink to news. Aug 11 00:15
schestowitz I’m no friend of Xandros. They are with Microsoft now. Aug 11 00:15
schestowitz BTW, why does Dennis post in Port25? Aug 11 00:16
twitter Yeah, I was never fond of Xandros.  Dustin does a lot with O’Reilly and I think he’s written a couple of Samba books. Aug 11 00:17
twitter Ed liked Xandros because it was like Windows and had an easy way to get Crossover Office.  He’s not so fond of it these days. Aug 11 00:18
schestowitz Oops. Yes, I meant Dustin. That’s just what aroused my suspicion in the first place. Susan Linton (Tux Machines) links to him sometimes. Aug 11 00:19
twitter It is taking Ed a while to get the link between software freedom and software convenience and quality but he’s getting there. Aug 11 00:19
twitter Dustin is petty deep into M$ stuff.  I think people feed him a bad diet of FUD. Aug 11 00:20
schestowitz For specialised apps it is sometimes harder. Aug 11 00:20
schestowitz Which people? Aug 11 00:20
twitter M$ people.  He keeps up with Windows stuff.  I’ve heard stories about M$ propaganda that VARs and Developers are fed but I have not bothered to talk to Dustin about it. Aug 11 00:22
schestowitz Well, they use their wallet. While smearing Stallman (always by proxy, using O’Gara, CompTIA and other lobbying arms) they try to scoop  up those who sidle with that movement. They try to ‘tame’ open source by sponsoring O’Reilly, creating OSBC, etc. Just more ISVs for Microsoft… Aug 11 00:23
twitter Dustin has taken the “pragmatic” approach with his consulting.  He knows that most of his clients have Windows desktops and does free software where he thinks it does a good job as a server. Aug 11 00:27
twitter As you might expect, that’s a hard job and Dustin has become an expert. Aug 11 00:28
schestowitz That’s fine, but what brings concern are posts that praise Microsoft/Novell for ‘interop’ (software patents). Microsoft also greases up people like Asay in this way. They are divisive and manipulative. Aug 11 00:28
twitter M$ is divisive.  Dustin is occasionally manipulated.  I agree, it is ugly. Aug 11 00:29
twitter People who try to keep up with M$ Windows don’t have enough time to filter out M$ BS. Aug 11 00:30
schestowitz Gary Kildall: “He [Bill Gates] is divisive. He is manipulative. He is a user. He has taken much from me and the industry.” Aug 11 00:30
twitter So, tell me about Susan Linton Aug 11 00:31
schestowitz What about her? Aug 11 00:31
schestowitz She’s low-profile, but we corresponded. She is my favourite distro reviwer. Aug 11 00:31
schestowitz reviewer. Aug 11 00:31
twitter Oh. Aug 11 00:32
twitter is she srlinuxx? Aug 11 00:32
schestowitz Yes. Aug 11 00:32
twitter That was probable but not obvious. Aug 11 00:32
twitter I have not done much distro hopping and think the practice is harmful. Aug 11 00:33
schestowitz To whom? Aug 11 00:33
twitter To users.  It has been easier for me to make debian work than to learn too much about other distros. Aug 11 00:33
schestowitz It’s the desktop environment mostly. The rest is the same, except package management and some tools. Aug 11 00:34
twitter I prefer E16. Aug 11 00:35
schestowitz I haven’t used it in ages. I use KDE for the applications I’m used to, but I still do GNOME sometimes (a decreasing amount though). Aug 11 00:36
twitter I mostly like how Debian manages itself and how well it upgrades. Aug 11 00:36
schestowitz Debian+E here: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/06/28/u… (video at the bottom) Aug 11 00:37
twitter It’s hard to beat E16s pagers.  I use a lot of KDE stuff like kicker, konqueror and kontact on top of it.  Gnome’s editor, gnumeric and terminal program are also excellent. Aug 11 00:38
*Tallken has quit (“Ex-Chat”) Aug 11 00:40
twitter Ah yes, that’s E17.  I’ll try it out when it goes into Debian testing and gets multiple virtual desktops. Aug 11 00:41
twitter I need my desktops and E16′s pager to layout my work. Aug 11 00:42
twitter BRLUG user Will Hill put up these pictures of his desktop.  Mine is alot like it http://bayimg.com/tag/vista#2  starting here http://bayimg.com/JaHHjAabC Aug 11 00:47
*schestowitz looks Aug 11 00:48
twitter :) Aug 11 00:48
schestowitz I’m watching this video at the moment: http://ia331342.us.archive.org/1/i… Aug 11 00:49
schestowitz Just posted a bunch of links too. I’ll post the RMS video tomorrow. Aug 11 00:49
schestowitz I’m going to bed in a moment. Aug 11 00:49
twitter Sweet dreams. Aug 11 00:54
schestowitz See you tomorrow. Aug 11 00:54
*dsmith_ (n=dsmith@c-76-114-142-224.hsd1.md.comcast.net) has joined #boycottnovell Aug 11 00:57
*libervisco_ (n=daniel@78-1-111-112.adsl.net.t-com.hr) has joined #boycottnovell Aug 11 01:23
*libervisco has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) Aug 11 01:27
*dsmith_ has quit (Remote closed the connection) Aug 11 01:45
*moparx has quit (“leaving”) Aug 11 03:37
*SeveredCross has quit (Remote closed the connection) Aug 11 04:38
*PetoKraus (n=Peter@host-77-247-224-25.isper.sk) has joined #boycottnovell Aug 11 07:14
schestowitz “Windows-powered personal computers account for more than 90% of unit sales,. Linux 4%, Gartner says.” http://ca.biz.yahoo.com/i… Aug 11 08:12
*kentma (n=user@host86-155-239-127.range86-155.btcentralplus.com) has joined #boycottnovell Aug 11 09:11
schestowitz SWpatents may be on a limbo again: http://271patent.blogspot.com/2008/07/judge-pl… Aug 11 09:27
schestowitz **in* a limbo. Watch what the judge says. It’s all over the place.  http://freedomforip.org/2008/0… http://www.researchoninnovation…. http://techdirt.com/articles/2… Aug 11 09:28
*ZiggyFish (n=ziggyfis@123-243-163-103.static.tpgi.com.au) has joined #boycottnovell Aug 11 09:30
kentma I’d like to see software patents stopped.  As far as I can tell, they should never have been permitted in the first place. Aug 11 09:34
schestowitz They expand. Aug 11 09:34
*ZiggyFish thinks kentma is on to something Aug 11 09:34
kentma Hi ZiggyFish Aug 11 09:35
ZiggyFish hey, how are you Aug 11 09:35
schestowitz http://www.amarketplaceofideas.com/how-the-paten… Aug 11 09:35
kentma I’m very well, thanks, and you? Aug 11 09:35
ZiggyFish not to bad, bit busy (writing, and creating software) Aug 11 09:36
kentma ’tis better than being bored, though :-) Aug 11 09:36
ZiggyFish lol, what you been up to Aug 11 09:37
kentma Me?  Ah, I’m always totally busy – the lot of middle-age with kids, working Mrs, job and far too many personal interests to keep up with.  Never, ever, bored, though :-) Aug 11 09:38
ZiggyFish lol (sounds like me) Aug 11 09:38
ZiggyFish (except for the kids and wife part) Aug 11 09:38
kentma Perhaps you’ll have those joys in the future…  in any case, I’m preparing the Digest at the moment, and somewhat pleased at having sorted the UTF-8 issues I was having. Aug 11 09:39
ZiggyFish nice Aug 11 09:40
kentma And am musing over how to write a spanish & french vocab tester in C with a mysql back-end for the kids. Aug 11 09:40
ZiggyFish are you a developer Aug 11 09:40
kentma I’ve managed to compile a noddy-gram which connects to mysql and lists some tables, so it’s looking good. Aug 11 09:41
ZiggyFish schestowitz: have there been any articles, on the success or failer of SilverLight in the olympics? Aug 11 09:41
kentma ah, more of an ex-developer and ex-hardware designer these days! Aug 11 09:41
ZiggyFish nice Aug 11 09:41
*ZiggyFish a developer Aug 11 09:41
kentma good man! Aug 11 09:41
kentma what language are you writing in? Aug 11 09:41
schestowitz ZiggyFish: yes, but not enough. Aug 11 09:42
kentma :-) Aug 11 09:42
ZiggyFish ATM, PHP, but know C/C++ ASP, C#, ASP.NET, etc Aug 11 09:42
schestowitz Yesterday I linked to a NYT article about it. This didn’t go far enough,. Aug 11 09:42
schestowitz Groklaw (PJ) wrote about the Moonlight scam (Novell to Microsoft’s ‘damage control’/rescue): “Note that the article says that Moonlight is available for Linux users. Except, aside from not wanting to touch Mono folks’ code if you are like me, even if you wanted to, if you go to the download page, it tells you clearly it’s not exactly ready for the Olympic trials.” Aug 11 09:43
kentma ZiggyFish: It’s a generation thing, I suppose.  I grew up with assembler (6809,6502,8080/Z80), C, pascal, basic and a hint of fortran.  Mostly I write bash scripts now. Aug 11 09:43
schestowitz “So thanks, Microsoft, for once again showing us your malice toward FOSS and that there is no new Microsoft. Here’s the warning about Moonlight: “Warning: These are test installers and are not complete or bug free. They are snapshots from our development tree and might not work. New: Firefox 3 is now supported.” Aug 11 09:43
schestowitz “Note: These are currently built without multimedia support. No video or mp3 playback is enabled on these binaries.” Aug 11 09:43
ZiggyFish Interesting to see how well it goes in the olympics, and weather it is popular Aug 11 09:44
kentma Trusing binaries is a risky thing. Aug 11 09:44
ZiggyFish kentma: know ASP too Aug 11 09:44
ZiggyFish *ASM Aug 11 09:44
ZiggyFish x86 arch Aug 11 09:44
schestowitz We did ASM here too. It’s a fundamental stepping stone. Aug 11 09:45
*ZiggyFish agrees Aug 11 09:45
kentma asm has changed a lot – when I was first doing it, you could learn all the instruction set, and even assemble in your head for small things.  I think asm is much harder now. Aug 11 09:45
schestowitz Recall the ‘anti-Java’ professor, whom my boss interviewed a while ago. BTW, I no longer write for him… until they can those s**y Microsoft ads. Aug 11 09:45
ZiggyFish kentma: depends on what your using it for Aug 11 09:46
schestowitz Jupitermedia is becoming like SourceForge again… and Linux Today too is infected. Aug 11 09:46
ZiggyFish what’s jupitermedia Aug 11 09:46
kentma ZiggyFish: oh, I know you can inline a few instructions into C, but I think you’d need to be a lot smarter than me to write optimal assembler from your head now. Aug 11 09:46
ZiggyFish yeah, (one of the reasons it’s not used that often anymore) Aug 11 09:47
schestowitz ZiggyFish: it’s the company that publishes in some sites like Linux Planet. It’s one of those giants. I used to write about an article a month for them, but now those articles are just ‘decorated’ with Microsoft ads Aug 11 09:49
ZiggyFish lol Aug 11 09:50
schestowitz I’d rather starve than be a hypocrite. Aug 11 09:50
schestowitz Spotted a minute ago (from Tux Machine): http://huxterby.wordpress.com/200… Aug 11 09:50
ZiggyFish was listing to the first part of the Microsoft – netscape video this morning Aug 11 09:50
ZiggyFish quite interesting Aug 11 09:51
schestowitz Which one specifically? Aug 11 09:51
ZiggyFish mm, let me find it again Aug 11 09:51
schestowitz http://www.groklaw.net/staticpages… Aug 11 09:52
ZiggyFish that’s it Aug 11 09:52
schestowitz http://wincent.com/a/about/win… Aug 11 09:54
schestowitz The story of a lawyer, the son of a rich lawyer who was also known to be a bad programmer and a good scrupulous manipulator. Aug 11 09:55
ZiggyFish this somes up the first part very well Aug 11 09:59
ZiggyFish Astonishing. Like watching a clever but severely affected autistic child. Aug 11 09:59
schestowitz A lot of people who go to trial pretend to be disabled. It’s disrespectful though. Maybe Bill’s dad (Bill senior) told him to escape all the questions while grandpa pushed some fellow senators. Aug 11 10:02
ZiggyFish I didn’t know that Bill was trying to be disabled (isn’t he disabled anyway) :P Aug 11 10:03
schestowitz I don’t want to make libellous statements, but from what I once read, the back-and-forth bobbing is a form of disability. I don’t remember the name of it. Ballmer too is said to have some issues. I mean, professors (psychology) make statements about his behaviour sometimes. Aug 11 10:05
ZiggyFish hehe Aug 11 10:05
schestowitz Reiser had issues too based on what I’ve read. Rotten apples. At least those village fools are not /heading/ Free software. Aug 11 10:07
schestowitz That said, ESR and RMS are said to have some ‘social’ disabilities (I’m not sure it’s the right word). They are harmless though. Aug 11 10:07
kentma I think you’re looking at this the wrong way around.  Consider that you can identify, say (for example), 20 key aspects of behaviour, each of which has a spectrum – a normal distribution – from one determined “extreme” to the other, then consider that most people will exist at one particular point on each of those dimensions, and further, that those points will very depending on mood, environment etc. etc. Aug 11 10:14
kentma even if there were only 100 discrete points on each of those 20 dimensions, the number of possible combinations for a personality is 20*100*20*100, some of which may show several dimensions at one extreme or another. Aug 11 10:15
schestowitz Yes, for sure. It’s a high-dimensional space. Aug 11 10:15
kentma Then consider that unusually intelligent people are, by definition, at one end of at least *some* of these dimensions. Aug 11 10:15
schestowitz The question is /which ones/? Aug 11 10:16
kentma One arrives at interesting questions about whether autism is a gift or a curse. Aug 11 10:16
schestowitz One may mean dedication to something whereas another can be related to violent b ehaviour. Aug 11 10:16
kentma Oh, accepted, but anyone who’s got to the top of anything must have some fairly extreme characteristics of some kind. Aug 11 10:17
schestowitz Yes, I can see your point. Aug 11 10:17
schestowitz That said.. Aug 11 10:17
schestowitz There are things which are very harmless (being passionate, homosexual, etc.) and things that can lead to social problems like mood swings, suicidal tendencies, etc. Aug 11 10:18
kentma Agreed. Aug 11 10:18
schestowitz Some of the most interesting people I know are ‘eccentric’ Aug 11 10:19
schestowitz Eccentric should not be associated with illness or disability. It’s a characteristic. It’s just convenient for those ‘above’ to treat all people as ‘the people’, which are easy to approach (and control) in a uniform way. Just watch China… Aug 11 10:20
kentma Well, I sometimes get annoyed with people when they’re very very very very wrong about things…  always have done, and I don’t really know why. Aug 11 10:20
kentma Eccentricity is only being extreme in certain dimensions, though. Aug 11 10:20
schestowitz kentma: that’s ego. Linus has that. Aug 11 10:21
schestowitz He admits that too. Aug 11 10:21
schestowitz :-) *LOL* At least he recognises the ‘problem’. Aug 11 10:21
kentma I’d see it as me getting frustrated, really.  Sun Tzu says that I shouldn’t, of course :-) Aug 11 10:23
schestowitz I wonder how much longer Ballmer will be at Microsoft. I see a radical transition ahead. Aug 11 10:24
kentma His days have to be numbered.  He’s singularly failed to change any direction at MS.  Vista is a complete disaster, most of which happened on his watch;  Xbox ditto, Zuno ditto.  Yahoo takeover ditto. Aug 11 10:25
schestowitz He was made CEO after Microsoft was running at a loss. Aug 11 10:26
schestowitz Share and Share Alike, Economist. The article is gone now, but it’s true that Microsoft worried about its future 10 years ago. It had a lot more money in the bank back then. Aug 11 10:26
kentma Some analyst suggested that MS had been running at a loss since about 1999. Aug 11 10:27
schestowitz I don’t know about that. What I do know is that they got aggressive. Joachim Kempin, Microsoft OEM Chief: “”I’m thinking of hitting the OEMs harder than in the past with anti-Linux. … they should do a delicate dance”” Aug 11 10:28
kentma This is the typical response to disruptive technology – protect the current product set. Aug 11 10:28
schestowitz There was already a ‘blowout’ of information when Microsoft’s massibv buybacks came to light and an ex-manager got jailed (just weeks ago). There will be more of that in the future, for sure. Aug 11 10:29
kentma Um just seen the drizzle mysql project – removing 600,000 lines of code is very impressive. Aug 11 10:30
schestowitz That would be the way to make a mobile OOo. Aug 11 10:31
kentma I’m sure OO could do with a re-write.  I’d like to see OO.o modularised, so that any front-end could sit on it. Aug 11 10:32
schestowitz They GPLed their PDF engine, which enables importing in OOo3, IIRC. Aug 11 10:33
*ZiggyFish has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) Aug 11 11:03
*Tallken (n=Tallken@ has joined #boycottnovell Aug 11 11:08
*Tallken has quit (“Ex-Chat”) Aug 11 11:43
kentma This is amazing:  http://www.linuxjournal.com/cont… Aug 11 11:49
kentma I know you’ve seen it, Roy, but even so, it’s amazing me. Aug 11 11:49
schestowitz How so? Aug 11 11:49
kentma The electronics is now so inexpensive that we’re back to the peripherals dominating the price.  £70 for an opengl capable machine! Aug 11 11:49
schestowitz There are some more hacker-friendly ones around (one featured last week) Aug 11 11:49
schestowitz OGL-accelerated phones are on their way. IDF had some up for display last year, IIRC. Aug 11 11:50
kentma apparently, freerunner has an accelerated graphics display chip, but there’s no plan to write an opengl driver/lib for it. Aug 11 11:51
kentma shame. Aug 11 11:51
schestowitz Someone would do that. I knew this. They had some Enlightenment fun going on it… Aug 11 11:52
schestowitz It could help in managing small displays. Aug 11 11:53
kentma I think, like a lot of people, I’d like to have a truly open phone.  I’m quite happy with my Motorola A780 and its linux capability, but it still feels a little restricted. Aug 11 11:53
kentma OpenGL would be brilliant for display purposes.  Aside from anything else, mplayer ports would be able to play almost anything. Aug 11 11:53
kentma Many games could be ported relatively easily across. Aug 11 11:53
schestowitz Phone functionality is what the phone, being a phone, is for. However, using the rest of the ‘space’ (and hardware) to do you own thing is natural. They should multi-boot some phones. It would have a mmarket. Aug 11 11:55
*Tallken (n=Tallken@ has joined #boycottnovell Aug 11 12:15
*Tallken has quit (Remote closed the connection) Aug 11 12:25
*Tallken (n=Tallken@ has joined #boycottnovell Aug 11 13:20
twitter Busy morning!  Been looking at links  :) Aug 11 16:55
schestowitz I’m having a hard time with charsets again. :-( Aug 11 16:56
twitter “No non-free or contrib packages installed on this_machine!  rms would be proud.” Aug 11 16:56
schestowitz KNode on one machine exports differently from another. Aug 11 16:56
twitter Clue me. Aug 11 16:57
schestowitz Mine is infected with NVidia. The free drivers can’t do multi-head yet. Aug 11 16:57
schestowitz I’ve done many tests to pin-point this issue. It’s not the PGP, it’s not the movement between machines and it’s not the new version of mhonarc. Aug 11 16:58
schestowitz It ought to be the same version of KDE on both machines and the settings seem to be the same. Once exported, my messages show up with weird symbols (escape chars). Aug 11 16:58
twitter I played with Intel accel on an thinkpad X30.  It was nice but it screwed up power management.  I read that the accelerated stuff used bios routines and reverted to no accel. Aug 11 17:00
twitter Thanks to E16 and big monitors, I don’t really want dual head. Aug 11 17:00
twitter 3d acceleration would be nice but I can wait for it to be free. Aug 11 17:00
schestowitz That would be Novell and AMD, but they don’t get along too well. I hope Red Hat gets the contract. Aug 11 17:01
schestowitz (This is weird. I can’t reproduce the error.) Aug 11 17:02
twitter I like the news about software patents having problems.  One can only hope. Aug 11 17:04
schestowitz I’m starting to think it’s maybe because of FTP. Aug 11 17:06
schestowitz Can text files be passed and their encoding changed when send via FTP? Aug 11 17:06
schestowitz It still would not make sense cause it never happened before. Aug 11 17:06
twitter I’m still without a clue.  What program displays escape characters? Aug 11 17:07
schestowitz I’m starting to suspect that it’s a Firefox bug… it uses the wrong chartype… maybe… Aug 11 17:07
twitter Firefox?  Looking at what? Aug 11 17:08
schestowitz Web pages and raw text. I’m starting to think that the problem may have gone on for a long time but never spotted. :-S Aug 11 17:10
*libervisco_ is now known as libervisco Aug 11 17:10
Tallken ok may someone please tell RMS that videos with him alone && him not looking at the camera feel weird?? Aug 11 17:11
Tallken I know it’s the message that’s important Aug 11 17:11
Tallken but even so… Aug 11 17:11
Tallken (looking at the RMS video at the website) Aug 11 17:11
twitter I’ve mostly ignored unicode problems and left things on Debian’s default. Aug 11 17:11
Tallken Ubuntu (and Debian I guess) use unicode by default (at least I thought so?) Aug 11 17:12
twitter Sure they do.  The only problems I ever have come from web sites. Aug 11 17:12
schestowitz That might be the problem. Aug 11 17:12
twitter Eterm in E16 does not do unicode which makes manpages a pain in Lenny, so I use Eterm less now. Aug 11 17:13
twitter Gnome terminal and Konsole work. Aug 11 17:13
twitter Occasionally, I see escape characters on Wikipedia. Aug 11 17:14
twitter M$ generated and served pages are a pain.  Iceweasel helps. Aug 11 17:15
schestowitz I think there’s no simple solution to my problem Aug 11 17:15
twitter I don’t like these netbook articles pricing things out at $400.  The makers used to promise $100 and $200 devices before M$ put the screws to them.  The $400 price point as a promise looks like perception management. Aug 11 17:16
schestowitz Well, got to secure those Intel/Windows margins, right? That’s why they fought OLPC. Aug 11 17:24
schestowitz Okay, I think my problem is narrowed down to the shell. Aug 11 17:27
schestowitz I use a Perl script, which I believe does not like to accept utf-8 as-is, so it makes something else out of it. Does it make sense? Aug 11 17:28
twitter yes Aug 11 17:36
schestowitz S* Aug 11 17:36
schestowitz I’m trying to find out if there’s an option to get around this other than to run the script on a Ubuntu box. Aug 11 17:37
twitter What does the script do for you? Aug 11 17:38
schestowitz It turns mbox to HTML. Aug 11 17:38
schestowitz To work it needs something like &#x201D, not  Aug 11 17:43
twitter MHonArc ? Aug 11 17:44
kentma there is a perl utf8 pragma Aug 11 17:44
schestowitz Yes. Aug 11 17:45
kentma and there’re several conversion utilities Aug 11 17:45
schestowitz twitter: Yes, that’s the one. Aug 11 17:45
schestowitz kentma: essentially, in the Mandriva terminal, if I run this Perl script I get the same charset oddity your digests used to have. Aug 11 17:46
kentma also, see this:  http://www.mhonarc.org/MHonArc/d… Aug 11 17:47
twitter I see that &#xC2 is a character that does not work for konqueror or iceweasel for me. Aug 11 17:47
twitter It’s the kind of thing that I’ve simply ignored. Aug 11 17:47
schestowitz It show up oddly, doesn’t it? Aug 11 17:47
schestowitz *shows Aug 11 17:47
twitter odd is putting it mildly. Aug 11 17:47
kentma schestowitz: at my last server upgrade, I deleted all non-utf8 charsets. Aug 11 17:48
kentma Coupled with finding that my slrn was using an old, local version in /usr/local/bin which I’d forgotten I’d put there (stupid me), it all came out okay in the end. Aug 11 17:49
kentma It took some time, though, for all the packages to catch up with utf-8. Aug 11 17:49
schestowitz I’m trying to figure out the MHonArc page Aug 11 17:49
twitter &#x201D turns up some pages that don’t look nice either, so this is probably a deep and painful issue. Aug 11 17:50
schestowitz Yes, usually when news sites change CMS. Aug 11 17:51
kentma charsets have never been easy.  utf-8 will, in the end, simplify things, but it’ll take a few years to work through. Aug 11 17:51
twitter Like I said.  This is an issue I’ve been able to ignore as a desktop user. Aug 11 17:51
kentma schestowitz: is your problem viewing in a browser after the archiving has taken place? Aug 11 17:52
schestowitz I’m looking at http://www.mhonarc.org/MHonArc/… and I wonder if I can just pass a CLI argument to mhonarc to do so and, if so, which one. Aug 11 17:53
kentma textencode appears to set up a standard conversion *to* utf8 for text/body Aug 11 17:54
schestowitz Here’s the thing. I can export to MBox just fine. The characters are fine in the raw text. When mhonarc processes it (in the CLI in Mandriva), the output had those bad chars. Aug 11 17:54
schestowitz Can I just use -textencode as a CLI argument though? I’m still reading through. Aug 11 17:55
kentma can you grep the perl to see if the utf8 textencode is set? Aug 11 17:55
kentma No, I think you need to put it into the source. Aug 11 17:55
kentma They call it a “resource setting” on the perl page, but as I’ve never used perl, I don’t really understand the significance of that. Aug 11 17:56
kentma anyway – gotta go. Aug 11 17:56
*kentma has quit (“Leaving.”) Aug 11 17:56
schestowitz I’ll catch you later. Aug 11 17:56
twitter The people at squirrel mail mention some translation problems.  http://www.squirrelmail.org/wiki… Aug 11 18:03
schestowitz Thanks. Well, I decided to just run the script on my machine at the office (via SSH/SCP). Aug 11 18:04
twitter did it work? Aug 11 18:04
twitter If I read the squirrel mail page right, both email encoding and browser settings can cause problems that squirrel mail can’t deal with. Aug 11 18:05
schestowitz I thought about and tried changing chardef in the HTML head, but no luck. Aug 11 18:06
schestowitz Here’s what I love about KIO: I am able to drop and drop from an SCP connection to one machine onto a server, via FTP. It’s all transparent and I hope it works at the end. Aug 11 18:20
twitter Yes, that’s why Konqueror is my favorite browser. Aug 11 18:46
twitter It’s got power and ease of use that’s hard to beat. Aug 11 18:47
twitter One of my favorite slaves is “videodvd:/”  With decss, you just pop in your dvd and drag the movie files where you want them to go.  It’s not quite as nice as “audiocd:/” yet, but you can see where it will go.  Transcoding can be put in as a layer, just like it is with audiocd, and some kind of merge utility can be added so that your movie ends up in a single file. Aug 11 18:50
twitter There are a few dvds that drag and drop wrong, but VLC takes it from there. Aug 11 18:51
schestowitz I sometimes wonder just how much Dolphin will affect this convenience (and yes, I know Konqy stays in KDE4). Aug 11 18:52
schestowitz BTW, running the same scripts on another box resolved the issue, but I don’t want to depend on more than one box. Aug 11 18:53
schestowitz Hmmmm…  http://commit-digest.org/issu… “Richard Dale committed changes in /trunk/KDE/kdebindings/csharp:… * Add a QtScript module for scripting C# apps”  That’s the second time I notice him pushing Mono into KDE. Aug 11 19:04
Tallken schestowitz: “Non-Ogg versions are here.” points to a ogg file Aug 11 19:51
schestowitz The URL suggests so, but it’s an index. Do you get a direct link to the Ogg? Aug 11 19:52
Tallken ah sorry schestowitz you’re right Aug 11 20:06
*moparx (n=moparx@pdpc/supporter/base/moparx) has joined #boycottnovell Aug 11 20:06
schestowitz I’m really enjoying these videos. They are a treasure trove. http://digg.com/linux_unix/Lori_D… http://boycottnovell.com/2008/08/11/… http://boycottnovell.com/2008… http://www.linuxinsider.com/story/Vis… Aug 11 20:07
schestowitz Look at Billiiii!!!111  http://news.xinhuanet.com/engli…  (not so retired, is he?) Aug 11 20:14
schestowitz Head of Microsoft at Nigeria has quit: http://www.businessdayonline.com/tec… Aug 11 20:15
*moparx has quit (Remote closed the connection) Aug 11 20:55
*moparx (n=moparx@pdpc/supporter/base/moparx) has joined #boycottnovell Aug 11 20:56
twitter Oh my. Aug 11 21:14
schestowitz There’s lots more. Aug 11 21:15
schestowitz I burned so much time on that mhonarc issue, so I can’t keep up with the amount of bad news that comes Microsoft’s way. I’ll just put it in “Links”. Aug 11 21:15
schestowitz http://blogs.zdnet.com/open-source/?p=2769 Aug 11 21:15
twitter Ah, ZDNet.  Here’s a slam for the iPhone that includes a swipe at free software too.  http://blogs.zdnet.com/mobile-gadgeteer/?p=1351 Aug 11 22:05
schestowitz Seen some from Bott a few hours ago. He’s still a ‘PR person’ for Microsoft… now downplaying a huge security problem in Vista. Aug 11 22:06
twitter ”  I expected issues with some applications because not all developers are created equal and Apple doesn’t seem to be performing much of any kind of actual review in letting applications appear on the iPhone App store.  [and bandess follows]“ Aug 11 22:06
twitter I see that “not all developers are equal” line a lot.  It has to be one of their talking points. Aug 11 22:07
schestowitz I saw some Gartner report about it earlier. Asay slammed it. Also, IDC slammed iPhone  (along with Gartner, IIRC) before it was launched. They may have acted as Microsoft agents at the time. Aug 11 22:08
schestowitz I suppose you’ve come across my many examples (and smoking guns) showing how Microsoft and Gates pay them to produce lies…? Aug 11 22:08
twitter Yes, those are good summaries.  Thanks. Aug 11 22:09
twitter I can see how these things upset Apple people too, lies are offensive. Aug 11 22:09
schestowitz There are many of them fragmented, so you might need to go back and forth with the hyperlinks. Aug 11 22:10
twitter Logging is the first step towards discovering truth. Aug 11 22:11
schestowitz I was told earlier today (regarding my post about vapourware) that it’s a form of fraud. Gates actually won a price for vapourware. That’s like winning on fraud. Speaking of which: “Financial Shenanigans” at Microsoft Corporation? http://seekingalpha.com/article/9… http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/daya… Aug 11 22:11
schestowitz I hope others make use of the information. I use a lot of other people’s findings. It’s a group project. Groklaw helps a lot too. Aug 11 22:11
twitter The problem is the volume of BS is tremendous and articles vanish.  That’s why quoting parts is useful.  Groklaw is first rate and only a group effort will work. Aug 11 22:12
schestowitz I keep local copies of all articles that I link to (Sheesh!) Aug 11 22:14
twitter Nice. Aug 11 22:17
schestowitz If a link breaks, I can pull it from the grave; no need for Internet Archive/Time machine. Aug 11 22:17
*kentma (n=user@ellandroad.demon.co.uk) has joined #boycottnovell Aug 11 22:18
schestowitz twitter: do you reckon it would be handy if I posted links about Microsoft separately. They are coming loose and people seem to be interested in this. Aug 11 22:23
twitter thinks Aug 11 22:24
schestowitz We can call it “Microsoft <something>” and contain references once in a couple of days. Aug 11 22:28
twitter There are a lot of issues, they are all interrelated.  How do you categorize them now and how much effort would it take to separate them? Aug 11 22:28
schestowitz Not much effort at all. I just want to separate Microsoft watching from advocacy. Aug 11 22:28
twitter If it helps you do your work, it’s good.  When I want to find something from you, I just use Google with your site. Aug 11 22:30
twitter Google is not always reliable but it’s easier than a hand search. Aug 11 22:31
twitter To really organize myself, I’ve used Slashdot journal pages, like the Vista Failure Log.  They link back to articles or other journals of articles that I thought were interesting at the time.  The net result, sometimes, is a big picture page. Aug 11 22:34
twitter Tagging has been helpful to construct meta journal pages, but it’s usually easier to search my journal by hand and add things as I go. Aug 11 22:35
schestowitz I’d love to get my hands on tolls that traverse and generate maps from Web sites. I sought something like this in 2003, but never found it. Aug 11 22:35
schestowitz For mind-mapping. Aug 11 22:35
kentma Roy:  do you mean just creating a linked-list representing a site and displaying it? Aug 11 23:11
kentma multiply linked, presumably? Aug 11 23:11
schestowitz Something like that, yeah…. I wanted to do it with schestowitz.com when I had lost track of its structure and couldn’t find stuff. Aug 11 23:11
schestowitz Took me a while to get two-way (cross-linking and backlinking) links working in BN.com. Aug 11 23:12
kentma ah, I see.  To be honest, I don’t know how much that really helps – my experience of organising things is that it’s a full-time job, and machines just can’t do it for you, since it’s more to do with how your memory works than the actual data, I think. Aug 11 23:12
kentma What might be more useful could be a daemon which watches where  you go, and periodically reminds you about where you *don’t* go, in order that you do not forget about it. Aug 11 23:13
schestowitz Einstein had some interesting things about it. If you can look it up, why momorise? But you still need the mental pointers. It’s like cache. A site map would be an aide. Aug 11 23:13
schestowitz Tags are good mnemonics too. Aug 11 23:14
kentma Only if you know where to start. Aug 11 23:14
kentma Imagine a map of the UK with all the place names, street names, feature names, pub names and so on shown on it.  You’d never find anything, unless you knew where to start looking. Aug 11 23:15
schestowitz Wel, the maps and links give you pathways to related information… contextual, you know? Aug 11 23:15
kentma I understand the problem you’re trying to address, and I’ve thought about this more often than I can express. Aug 11 23:16
schestowitz A lot of my past projects I can hardly get to grips with. Even with lots of code and documentation, you can get your head around to it. You can’t restore/revert to an old mind state. Aug 11 23:17
kentma For example Google, and to a great extent, the internet, have been more or less destroyed by commercial interest.  Information searching/finding/consuming has been replaced by advertising/commercial-transaction. Aug 11 23:18
kentma Ah, I’ve looked at code I wrote 25 years ago, and mostly haven’t a clue how it works. Aug 11 23:18
kentma I know that it did, but I no longer know how. Aug 11 23:18
kentma In the days of gopher/lynx, archie, ftp servers and usenet, the internet and the archives were relatively easy to search, because there wasn’t anywhere near so much to find. Aug 11 23:19
schestowitz That’s the technical stuff, so yeah… it needs context and tools/peers also. Information and stories (choronological) is a separate problem, I think. Aug 11 23:19
schestowitz I wish my newsreader had access to posts I made prior to Sept. 2006 Aug 11 23:20
kentma Now, we have people deliberately creating data in order that search engines favour it in some way, but the older data was not written in that way, so is unlikely to come to the top of any search. Aug 11 23:20
kentma Has it not? Aug 11 23:20
kentma Oh, is this when I archived my spool? Aug 11 23:20
schestowitz Not that I can reach because I don’t have the headers in KNode. Aug 11 23:21
schestowitz KNode remains my most valuable ‘research’ tool. Aug 11 23:21
kentma I’m still considering whether a mysql copy of the digests could be created and made searchable. Aug 11 23:21
schestowitz Is there an indexer for it? If not, why not google it? Aug 11 23:22
kentma Ah well, I must to bed – see you tomorrow. Aug 11 23:22
kentma Google my spool?  How? Aug 11 23:22
schestowitz G2 Aug 11 23:23
kentma mm – let’s continue this tomorrow, I’m knackered! Aug 11 23:23
kentma see you. Aug 11 23:23
schestowitz Google Desktop is another option. Aug 11 23:23
twitter It takes time to pull these stories together because M$ is constantly lying about what they are doing.  It was not until Comes vrs. M$ that the full ACPI story came out.  http://slashdot.org/~twitter/jo… Aug 11 23:42
twitter That’s a delay of six or eight years. Aug 11 23:42
twitter The truth of it was evident at the time but could not be proved without Bill Gate’s imprudent email. Aug 11 23:43
schestowitz Indictments can be made for people to make judgment as better-aware customers. Justice won’t come from corrupt government and judges. It’s down to awareness. Aug 11 23:45
twitter True but M$ spends about a billion dollars a month in marketing designed to eliminate your sense of awareness.  That alone should be enough to discredit them but it is remarkably effective. Aug 11 23:47
twitter When you are trying to assemble the truth, you have to swim through all of their propaganda.  It’s a real pain. Aug 11 23:48
schestowitz Yes, I know. Aug 11 23:49
twitter :) Aug 11 23:49
schestowitz I have no good answer to this, I’m afraid. Aug 11 23:49
twitter Sure you do.  Cooperation. Aug 11 23:50
twitter Boycott Novell is focused on one small piece of their dishonesty.  That division of labor. Aug 11 23:51
twitter You have open comments on the things you find and IRC.  Those things invite help. Aug 11 23:51
schestowitz Yes, but it’s still a niche audience. Aug 11 23:52
schestowitz Ken tries things like Lindependence, which bring it all to ‘the masses’. Aug 11 23:52
twitter That’s the guy in the Felton videos? Aug 11 23:53
schestowitz Yes, there are a few. Larry mailed me 2 hours ago to say thanks because I mailed him. Aug 11 23:55
schestowitz First Microsoft-exclusive posted seconds ago: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/08/11/e… Aug 11 23:56
twitter For bringing things to the masses, I like the free culture movement.  http://vt.freeculture.org/ Aug 11 23:56
schestowitz I’ll put up an interview about that soon. Aug 11 23:57
twitter It’s consistently been movies projected large and loud that got the most interest for us at the CCCC.  The actual software, is strangely secondary to most people there, but they get freedom after a while. Aug 11 23:58
Share in other sites/networks: These icons link to social bookmarking sites where readers can share and discover new web pages.
  • Reddit
  • email

If you liked this post, consider subscribing to the RSS feed or join us now at the IRC channels.

Pages that cross-reference this one

What Else is New

  1. 'Ethical Source' is Not Ethical and Not a Movement But a Misguided Self-Serving PR Stunt

    Something which is neither enforceable nor ethical is being promoted by profoundly unethical media in the pockets of large corporations

  2. InteLeaks – Part XXI: Intel Seeking Advice From a Bunch of Clowns (Harbor 'Research')

    A firm called Harbor 'Research' is making dubious recommendations to Intel; as shown in the above video, there's also an obsession with buzzwords (typically suggestive of a lack of technical grasp/understanding)

  3. IRC Proceedings: Monday, January 18, 2021

    IRC logs for Monday, January 18, 2021

  4. The US Election Was Not Rigged, But the Nomination Process Was (Undermined to Maintain Control by Oligarchy)

    Cheating/driving the left out of the Democratic Party seems like a longstanding tradition and we know who stands to gain from it; moreover, problems remain in the voting process because it's controlled by secret code of companies like Microsoft (in spite of the openwashing)

  5. InteLeaks – Part XX: Redacted (for Names Only) Release of Intel File About Developer eXperience (DX) Meddling in GNU/Linux

    Today (or tonight) we release the first 'phase' of InteLeaks in a sensibly redacted form; coming up next is a surprise from Team Microsoft

  6. Sites in Bed With the EPO and UPC 'Covering' the 'News' Without Mentioning Any of the Overt Abuses

    It is rather sad that blogs like IP Kat have turned into proponents of abusive EPO management and Team UPC increasingly resorts to lying using pseudonyms (to avert criticism and accountability); much of the rebuttal or response that’s hinged on reality/facts can only be found in comments, which are still subjected to a face-saving moderation process (conducted by Team UPC)

  7. Suppressed Facts of the Free Software Movement and Its Community of Volunteers – Part IV: Stories From the Depths of the Free Software Foundation (FSF)

    To reduce or alleviate suspicions and a potential of mistrust the FSF needs to become more transparent and liberate information (such as the real reason Bradley Kuhn left, as noted in the previous part)

  8. Links 18/1/2021: GNU Radio 3.9, Wikipedia at 20

    Links for the day

  9. InteLeaks – Part XIX: Intel's Web 'Experts' Seen as Microsoft Champions Dealing With the Platform Microsoft is Looking to Destroy

    Things aren't rosy at Intel because the hires aren't suitable for the job of documenting and/or presenting GNU/Linux-centric products (whose target audience is Free software developers)

  10. Adding Images as Characters to the Daily Bulletins of Techrights

    Our daily bulletins now have inside them coarse graphics, depicted using characters alone, and the tool used to generate them announced a new release earlier today; we showcase some of its features (in a new video)

  11. Links 18/1/2021: Weekly Summaries and Linux 5.11 RC4

    Links for the day

  12. IRC Proceedings: Sunday, January 17, 2021

    IRC logs for Sunday, January 17, 2021

  13. The Oligarchs' Parties Will Never Choose the Side of Software Freedom Because Free Software Cannot Bribe Officials

    The tough reality is that next week's (or this coming week's, depending on what Sunday counts as) inauguration ceremony is partly symbolic as all the same and important issues remain largely untouched, for corporations control almost everything of significance

  14. COVID-19 Has Actually Helped Software Freedom Due to Financial and 'Spare Time' Factors

    Developers and users are increasingly exploring what the Free software world has to offer; this is actually measurable and it contradicts claims to the contrary

  15. Future Plans and Using Videos to Complement Text

    Remarks on recent and impending site changes; We are not replacing text with video, we're just trying to enhance the presentation a bit, especially where visuals help make a point or where browsing through Web sites (or leaks) is more suitable than static, linear presentation

  16. InteLeaks – Part XVIII: Intel Does Not Know How to Properly Do Research and It Seems Apparent Unscientific Methods Are Used to Justify Poor Documentation

    There appears to be a severe crisis at Intel; they cannot recruit scientists (or those whom they recruited are walking away) and as a result the company produces bad products with poor documentation (or highly defective chipsets that top-notch marketing cannot compensate for); in this video we walk through some examples of how studies are being conducted (as already noted in Part XVII)

  17. Suppressed Facts of the Free Software Movement and Its Community of Volunteers – Part III: The Free Software Foundation (FSF) Seems More Like a Victim of Destabilisation Campaigns

    The Free Software Foundation (FSF), which turns 36 later this year, is looking to raise money that helps support the GNU Project, soon 38 years old and likely the most important Free software project to exist (ever)

  18. Links 17/1/2021: EasyOS on Raspberry Pi and GNU libsigsegv 2.13

    Links for the day

  19. InteLeaks – Part XVII: The High Cost of Microsoft Windows Users in GNU/Linux Development Teams

    A look inside Intel explains what holds back the technical team, which bemoans the lesser technical people getting in the way and not even using the product that they are writing about

  20. IRC Proceedings: Saturday, January 16, 2021

    IRC logs for Saturday, January 16, 2021

  21. Suppressed Facts of the Free Software Movement and Its Community of Volunteers – Part II: Why Bradley Kuhn Left the Free Software Foundation (FSF)

    The founder of the FSF is still at the FSF (albeit not publicly) and the person who lobbied to oust him has basically been 'banished' by the founder

  22. Links 16/1/2021: LibreOffice 7.1 Release Candidate, Zeroshell 3.9.5, FreeBSD Report, and GhostBSD 21.01.15

    Links for the day

  23. Free Speech on the Web Not Respected by Companies That Used to Support Software Freedom

    Mozilla does not have to make its Web browser about politics; it can just make an excellent piece of software that is neutral about the Web pages that it renders, based on the user's personal preferences

  24. Suppressed Facts of the Free Software Movement and Its Community of Volunteers – Part I: We Are Under Attack by Corporations and Their Salaried Facilitators

    The corporate takeover (taking over the Commons, produced by volunteers who are motivated by altruism) is a subject we must speak about and somehow tackle; this series will highlight uncomfortable or difficult truths

  25. InteLeaks – Part XVI: Intel Cannot Do Command Line, Even When It's Vastly Simpler and More Suitable for Development

    The Developer eXperience (DX) team at Intel seems to be full of Microsoft drones instead of developers and/or mildly technical people; this has not only harmed the quality of documentation but also upset staff, alienating people who actually understand what developers need (more than buzzwords like "DX")

  26. IRC Proceedings: Friday, January 15, 2021

    IRC logs for Friday, January 15, 2021

  27. Links 15/1/2021: KaOS 2021.01, Whisker Menu 2.5.2, Istio 1.8.2

    Links for the day

  28. InteLeaks – Part XV: Intel is Blind to Blind and Colour-Blind People

    Intel does not seem to grasp very basic concepts associated with accessibility; nevertheless, Intel shamelessly tries painting itself as "woke" and a "justice warrior" (policing speech while overlooking much-needed practical work)

  29. Links 15/1/2021: GStreamer 1.18.3 and Proton 5.13-5

    Links for the day

  30. IRC Proceedings: Thursday, January 14, 2021

    IRC logs for Thursday, January 14, 2021

RSS 64x64RSS Feed: subscribe to the RSS feed for regular updates

Home iconSite Wiki: You can improve this site by helping the extension of the site's content

Home iconSite Home: Background about the site and some key features in the front page

Chat iconIRC Channel: Come and chat with us in real time

Recent Posts