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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: September 10th, 2008

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schestowitzThey knew what they had done.Sep 09 22:15
schestowitz(the upper management)Sep 09 22:15
schestowitzNovell /INITIATED/ this deal.Sep 09 22:15
benJImanInterpret it how you will. In my experience incompetence is more likely than malice.Sep 09 22:15
benJImanI'm not sure they initiated the patent aspect though.Sep 09 22:16
MinceRif it's a selfish deal, they're still stupid -- they're blatantly harming the community that produces most of the value their own customers useSep 09 22:16
MinceRit's not a good business strategy to give your own customers the finger in the hope of getting money from one of your biggest and most devious competitors.Sep 09 22:17
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schestowitzhttp://blogs.computerworld.com/london_stoc... : London Stock Exchange suffers .NET CrashSep 09 22:47
schestowitz"Sep 09 22:47
schestowitzOn top of this runs the TradElec software itself. This is a custom set of C# and .NET programs, which was created by Microsoft and Accenture, the global consulting firm. Its back-end databases, believe it or not, run on Microsoft SQL Server 2000. The goal was to maintain sub-ten millisecond response times. In short, it's meant to be a real-time system. "Sep 09 22:47
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tessier_So do we know what caused the crash yet?Sep 09 22:50
tessier_Was it Dot Not?Sep 09 22:50
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tessier_schestowitz: It seems he has no idea what caused the problem either.Sep 09 22:55
schestowitzhttp://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2008/sep/09/lo...Sep 09 22:57
schestowitz"In June last year the LSE switched from its 10-year-old Sets system in favour of a new platform called TradElect, which runs on Microsoft software."Sep 09 22:57
schestowitz1 year, two days of failures. Not bad, eh? What's that? Like 99% uptime? For a stock market?Sep 09 22:57
tessier_USDOJ shopping for a lawyer for google anti-trust suit? /.Sep 09 23:01
tessier_What has google done to maintain a monopoly?Sep 09 23:01
tessier_I will be seriously pissed if they go after google but don't go after MSSep 09 23:01
tessier_Two days of failures? Did they have another outage prior to the most recent 6 hour outage?Sep 09 23:01
schestowitzIt's Microsoft who's behind this.Sep 09 23:03
schestowitzThey use a variety of proxies to stir things up. Let me find an example...Sep 09 23:03
schestowitzIt's a case of an abusive corrupt monopoly using its abusive corrupt nature to accuse others of being dangerous:  http://boycottnovell.com/2008/08/15/lawme...Sep 09 23:04
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schestowitzhttp://www.osnews.com/story/20266/Patent...Sep 09 23:14
schestowitzhttp://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn... It has just occurred to me that IBM and Lenovo recently started talking about Open Client or whatever they call that Red Hat/Ubuntu/SUSE Lotus combo they announced in LinuxWorld. Lenovo admitted that it spoke to IBM about it, so it could be related.Sep 09 23:24
MinceRhttp://hasthelargehadroncolliderdestroy...Sep 09 23:32
schestowitzHeh. Try it with JS disabled (me by default).Sep 09 23:33
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schestowitzCheck out the page source:  "if the lhc actually destroys the earth & this page isn't yet updated please email mike@frantic.org to receive a full refund"Sep 09 23:35
MinceR:)Sep 09 23:35
schestowitz*yawn*Sep 09 23:49
*schestowitz is away: Passed outSep 09 23:49
MinceRhttp://sackheads.org/~bnaylor/spew/away_msgs.htmlSep 09 23:50
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PeterKraus:DSep 10 01:30
PeterKrausit always make me giggleSep 10 01:30
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ZiggyFishheySep 10 02:35
ZiggyFishis anyone hereSep 10 02:37
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neighborleeZiggyFish, yup ;)Sep 10 04:28
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schestowitzhttp://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/ne...Sep 10 07:21
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schestowitzThis one looks unlikely to be a Microsoft plant: http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2008/0...Sep 10 07:44
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schestowitzPaul Allen is still investing money in Microsofters: http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/v...Sep 10 09:32
schestowitzAnd NComputing has been stung by a former Microsoft execs, which might affect its Linux choice: http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show/sen...Sep 10 09:32
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PetoKrausoh, so you've banned benjiman yesterday?Sep 10 09:58
PetoKrausnot niceSep 10 09:58
schestowitzHuh??Sep 10 09:59
schestowitzThat must be [H]omerSep 10 09:59
schestowitzI'll remove the ban.Sep 10 09:59
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schestowitzFinancial Times headline (pure example of brainwash): "Microsoft’s human side - Financial Times" A friend says: "My cynical side says that their outsourced marketing firms are running these headlines to distract from financial troubles..."Sep 10 10:19
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MinceRlolSep 10 10:25
PetoKraus:DSep 10 10:25
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schestowitzHow can I review the kicklist? I didn't set this. it was [H]omer.Sep 10 10:28
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MinceR/cs help akickSep 10 10:34
MinceR(/cs akick #boycottnovell list)Sep 10 10:35
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soliswhut ?Sep 10 11:37
soliswhy are we boycotting novell ? ... i mean don tget me wrong i love a good boycottSep 10 11:38
solisdo you guys have any sources for me r?Sep 10 11:38
solisgood thing you guys dont boycott vista ... since well i like it so much it would be hard for me to join you on your boycott questSep 10 11:44
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MinceRsolis: long story short, novell was among the first to support microsoft's patent extortion racket/FUD campaign against linux with a deal with microsoftSep 10 12:02
MinceRsolis: see http://boycottnovell.com/ for detailsSep 10 12:03
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solisican see novell being a bit forced ... why not boycott microsoft insteadSep 10 13:19
schestowitzThey converge.Sep 10 13:20
schestowitzBoycottNovell addresses both issues.Sep 10 13:20
MinceRwe've been boycotting m$ for a long time already ;)Sep 10 13:21
soliswho isnt ?Sep 10 13:30
MinceRunfortunately some people aren'tSep 10 13:30
solishmmm ... yhea and it is hardSep 10 13:31
solisstill vista has some improvementsSep 10 13:32
MinceRand many more things where it's worse than its predecessorsSep 10 13:34
schestowitzProducts and corporate behaviour are separate.Sep 10 13:34
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soliswhy ?Sep 10 13:34
schestowitzMixing the two is dangerous. It's like saying "Microsoft is good" rather than "Microsoft Office is good"Sep 10 13:34
schestowitzThe remarks from Jim Zemlin came under fire for this reasons.Sep 10 13:34
schestowitz*reasonSep 10 13:34
MinceRmicrosoft makes them easy to mixSep 10 13:34
MinceRsince they behave in an evil way _and_ make shoddy productsSep 10 13:35
solismicrosoft office sucks :SSep 10 13:35
schestowitzMinceR:  many people never get the opportunity to review other products.Sep 10 13:35
MinceRi knowSep 10 13:35
schestowitzBy restricting consumer choice people come to assume that PCs crash and get virii [sic] as a matter of nature.Sep 10 13:35
solisvirii is bad latinSep 10 13:36
solisits one virus 2 virusSep 10 13:36
solisbut back to the boycott ... didnt "we" create there monopoly and the bad politics commin with it by all mindlessly using ms-dos and windows ?Sep 10 13:38
solismore important why would ms care about us ? (the hand full in here)Sep 10 13:39
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twitter:) good morning.Sep 10 13:40
schestowitzsolis: information is all we can do.Sep 10 13:40
schestowitzThey have money with which they corrupt politicians and bribe companies (yes, there's evidnece).Sep 10 13:40
twitterI liked the toxic influence article from today and the Lenovo from yesterday.Sep 10 13:41
schestowitzTo counter such fire you can't use fire (bribe). The Linux Foundation can try this, which does a lot of harm through hypocrisy.Sep 10 13:41
schestowitzit's better to combat this by bringing to light what is happening.Sep 10 13:41
schestowitzLenovo was today.Sep 10 13:42
schestowitzI'm writing another one about VMware at the moment.Sep 10 13:42
soliswhats wrong with lenovo ?Sep 10 13:42
solisi like lenovo so far ... there cheap hq en .... well they just runSep 10 13:43
schestowitzLenovo is close to Novell/Mirosoft.Sep 10 13:44
schestowitzWhich is hardly surprising because IBM too endorsed the deal. IBM is not necessarily the good guy here.Sep 10 13:44
solislenovo is ibmSep 10 13:44
twitterno, lenovo bought thinkpad.Sep 10 13:45
twitterthey are a Chinese companySep 10 13:45
twitterThe destruction of GNU/Linux friendly Thinkpads would be a huge M$ win.Sep 10 13:46
schestowitzAll the business goes to China, eh? Except GM.Sep 10 13:46
solislenovo bought the complete ibm hardware devisionSep 10 13:48
solisand what does gnu/linux friendly mean any way ?Sep 10 13:48
schestowitzDrivers. Choice of Linux-compatible components.Sep 10 13:48
schestowitzI hear that Microsoft broke the law in this regards.Sep 10 13:48
schestowitz*regardSep 10 13:48
solislenovo offers to send laptops and computers free from any os ... thats more linux friendly than any other laptop dropperSep 10 13:49
schestowitzOn the one hand, it used NDA to create Linux-hostile hardware that nobody could write drivers for.Sep 10 13:49
solisdell and the likes dont do that they all seel including windowsSep 10 13:49
solishmm ndaSep 10 13:49
schestowitzI also read about Microsoft encouraging the use and dissemination of Linux-hostile components through pricing and deals.Sep 10 13:49
schestowitzsolis: Lenovo no longer does this.Sep 10 13:50
schestowitzIt used to offer FreeDOS machines, but not anymore.Sep 10 13:50
schestowitzNot to mention the fact that they overchanged for these.Sep 10 13:50
solisi just orderd some new machines excluding windows and they will ship them today :SSep 10 13:50
schestowitzThe French activists are probably the best chance against this. They already slam H-P for forcing people to buy Windows along with hardware.Sep 10 13:50
soliswould have been cool to get them with freedosSep 10 13:50
schestowitzIt reminds me of tying of "music industty" tax to everything-storage.Sep 10 13:51
solismaybe i can order os free because i am near france :SSep 10 13:51
schestowitzMicrosoft can tell corruptible politicians that "piracy" hurts it so much, so it's entitled to "hardware tax"Sep 10 13:51
schestowitzsolis: yes, probablySep 10 13:52
schestowitzIt has become risky in France to force people to buy Windows.Sep 10 13:52
schestowitzHere is the UK we have a clown cherishing everything Microsoft. Just watch LSE for a recent demo.Sep 10 13:52
solismicrosoft has the biggest market share because of the piracy ... if all pirated copies of windows are pulled off the market microsoft would lose thatSep 10 13:52
schestowitzA system worked perfectly fine for ages. A year ago they switched over to an overpriced .NET rubbishware and the system has already collapsed twice.Sep 10 13:53
schestowitzAll just so that Microsoft can have an "Anti-Linux" case study (with false 'Facts')Sep 10 13:53
solisaccording to microsoft at least 48% of all pc's running windows run pirated versionsSep 10 13:53
schestowitzsolis: yes, Microsoft admits that it owes its 'success' and continues ubiquity to 'piracy'Sep 10 13:53
solis.net sucks no one will argue with that :DSep 10 13:53
schestowitzIt bemoans it only when it needs excuses (e.g. profits fall).Sep 10 13:54
solisthats why they dont work to hard to prevent pirating ;)Sep 10 13:54
schestowitzIt's a lot more than 48%Sep 10 13:54
solisi knowSep 10 13:54
solisi just couldnt find any good source so i got stuck at 48%Sep 10 13:54
schestowitzMaybe even 80%. That would not surprise me. In developing countries Microsoft risks losing if it charges for Linux.Sep 10 13:54
schestowitzBill Gates (2007): "It's easier for our software to compete with Linux when there's piracy than when there's not."Sep 10 13:55
solis80% is a bit high i guess ..., but over half i do belive since microsoft stated that themselfsSep 10 13:55
schestowitzThat figure may also explains why Microsoft has financial issues that it hides.Sep 10 13:55
schestowitzThe US in general is in deep debt, but I don't know how Microsoft fits into this.Sep 10 13:56
solislolSep 10 13:56
solismicrosoft has no money its all from shareholdersSep 10 13:56
schestowitzSee http://www.billparish.com/msftfraudfacts.html when you have thr time.Sep 10 13:56
schestowitzsolis: yes.Sep 10 13:56
solisif they pull back there money there is no more microsoftSep 10 13:56
schestowitzIf they can get enough money pulled in, they can use it like a pyramid schemeSep 10 13:56
solisin other words they dont need profits they just need good prSep 10 13:56
schestowitzThey liquidate using the Gates Fundation [sic]Sep 10 13:56
schestowitzsolis: yes, and they intimidate people who say the truth.Sep 10 13:57
solisi am not intimidated ... and well ... let them try :PSep 10 13:57
schestowitzhttp://boycottnovell.com/2008/08/...Sep 10 13:58
schestowitzThat was /before/ the bubble.Sep 10 13:58
soliswe should get the micheal moore to make a documentary about itSep 10 13:58
schestowitzWell, if he bothers.Sep 10 13:58
schestowitzPolitical issues are more important.Sep 10 13:58
schestowitzThey cost lives.Sep 10 13:58
schestowitzFrhrenheir 9/11 for example related to death of many Iraqui civilians.Sep 10 13:58
schestowitzSicko is about the death of people in the US due to a bad and corrupt systemSep 10 13:59
schestowitzYou can find out about corruption around dietary recommendation in this talk from Prof. Lessig: http://lessig.org/blog/2008/07/netro...Sep 10 13:59
solisthis is politics ... it affects how we work and stuff world wide ...Sep 10 14:00
schestowitzMind you, 'piracy' of Office will be higher than Windows because of preloads.Sep 10 14:00
schestowitz(many typos above BTW.... Fahrenheit for instance)Sep 10 14:00
solishmm might be ... though i dont know any one that hacks the preinstall most of them just down a torrentSep 10 14:00
twitterWhat do you know about Return Path?Sep 10 14:01
twitterMy ISP uses them and they just blocked a mail list I'm on.Sep 10 14:02
solis:sSep 10 14:02
soliscan they block mail ??Sep 10 14:02
solissue them and get rich !!Sep 10 14:02
twitterIt reminds me of this http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/091307Z.shtmlSep 10 14:03
twitterand, of course, M$ will be exploiting it to disrupt GNU/Linux mail lists.Sep 10 14:03
solisagain sue them and get richSep 10 14:03
solisfreedom of spaech and information right ?Sep 10 14:04
soliswho is m$ to stop that ?Sep 10 14:04
schestowitzReturn Path?Sep 10 14:04
solisdude ... i really dropped me spellingSep 10 14:04
schestowitzI thought you said rPath (Novell puppet)Sep 10 14:04
twitterhttp://sendersupport.senderscore.net/Sep 10 14:04
twitterhttp://www.returnpath.net/Sep 10 14:05
schestowitz.NETSep 10 14:05
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schestowitzIt runs on a *NIX server though. Netcraft masks it.Sep 10 14:06
twitterThis is a PR friendly way to censor email.Sep 10 14:07
MinceRlol rPathSep 10 14:07
MinceRthe only distro i've ever seen that ships with a package manager that destroys itself.Sep 10 14:07
twitterIt's about extending corporate control to personal conversations.Sep 10 14:08
twitterand stomping out grass roots movements.Sep 10 14:08
twitterthey do it in the name of spam filtering.Sep 10 14:08
twitterIf Return Path is running .NET, it is surely a M$ puppet.Sep 10 14:09
zoobabrpath is where Peter Hanvin works?Sep 10 14:10
solishmm imma go repair some mssql 2k5 server so i wont be back before like ... late :DSep 10 14:11
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schestowitztwitter: could it be a concidence?Sep 10 14:18
schestowitz*coincidence  . I mean, it's easy to jump the gun.Sep 10 14:18
schestowitzYou'd need to do a little experiment and then present what you find.Sep 10 14:18
schestowitzLike vista error log.Sep 10 14:18
schestowitztwitter: I don't think it runs .NET. I was referring to the domain name of the homepage. Very few (if any) among the filtering/security appliances run /anything/ Microsoft.. BSD and Linux are popular.Sep 10 14:19
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EruaranhiSep 10 14:20
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schestowitzzoobab: is rPath  a patent felon. I seem to recall something.Sep 10 14:20
schestowitzhi, Eruaran.Sep 10 14:20
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Eruaranhello schestowitzSep 10 14:20
MinceRschestowitz: link pleaseSep 10 14:20
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EruaranIs anyone able to get GNU/Linux Eee's anymore ?Sep 10 14:21
EruaranWe had a customer who wanted a 901 with Linux but we couldn't get oneSep 10 14:22
EruaranThe major supplier is only offering XPSep 10 14:22
schestowitzMinceR: link to what?Sep 10 14:24
schestowitzEruaran: let me find a post for you.Sep 10 14:24
EruaranCan get Linux on a 900 Celeron but not a 901 AtomSep 10 14:24
schestowitzhttp://boycottnovell.com/2008/08...Sep 10 14:24
twitterYeah, it could be coincidence but there's no way that I can find out on my own.  It takes a collection of incidents to make a pattern.Sep 10 14:24
schestowitzSince then, however, it has been confirmed that there is an Atom shortage. Supply/demand rules are still not obeyed though.Sep 10 14:25
twitterEven if they blocked all of my lists, I'm still one person.Sep 10 14:25
schestowitzWell, twitter, Microsoft manipulates its search results to suit business agenda, so... :-)Sep 10 14:26
EruaranWe have had requests for both versions, but only one is made available.Sep 10 14:26
schestowitzIn Australia?Sep 10 14:27
schestowitzThere was some funny ASUS business in Australia a while back (APCMag and ITWire reported)Sep 10 14:27
schestowitzThey charged more for Linux and later 'corrected' it. Supply was another issue, IIRC.Sep 10 14:28
twitterLOL.  Supply and the cost of stocking XP models no one wants.Sep 10 14:28
EruaranThis is from within our company who is partners with Acer: Gartner did a market study fo Acer and told Acer that Asus was having "a lot of trouble" with Linux and it isn't working for them so they are getting out of it. I did note to our directors that Gartners biggest client is Microsoft but only a couple of people were listening.Sep 10 14:28
MinceRschestowitz: rPath's patent felonySep 10 14:29
schestowitzof course.Sep 10 14:29
schestowitzGartner is a mouth piece.Sep 10 14:29
twitterI thought Acer just bet big time on GNU/Linux..Sep 10 14:30
schestowitz"Linux is a passing fad of the day"Sep 10 14:30
schestowitzSOmething along those lines... Gartner around 1999Sep 10 14:30
schestowitzASUS said it is "tied up with Microsoft"Sep 10 14:30
schestowitzSee the URL above. Microsoft is pressuring themSep 10 14:30
twitterhttp://mobile.slashdot.org/article....Sep 10 14:31
EruaranI'm not sure what Acer is up to reallySep 10 14:31
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twitter "We have shifted towards Linux because of Microsoft," he said. "Microsoft has a lot of power and it is going to be difficult, but we will be working hard to develop the Linux market."Sep 10 14:32
EruaranI hope they're telling the truthSep 10 14:32
EruaranBecuase the pressuire within our company not to promote Linux came from Gartner - through AcerSep 10 14:33
EruaranAcer was passing this on and not adding any caveats about Gartners 'analysis'Sep 10 14:34
schestowitzEruaran: ASUS has a problem with Mcirosogft, not LinuxSep 10 14:34
Eruaranwell... they could have picked a better distroSep 10 14:35
schestowitzIt's because Microsoft has a problem with Linux. it's being adopted on low-cost laptops, so Microspft pffers Windows for as little as $18 a piece.Sep 10 14:35
schestowitzEruaran: they negotiated with Debian at one later point.Sep 10 14:35
schestowitzXandros is also Microsoft'taited'Sep 10 14:35
schestowitz*taintedSep 10 14:35
schestowitzEither way, Gartner's intervention is interesting in its own right.Sep 10 14:35
schestowitzDid the boss contact Gartner or did *they* approach the boxx?Sep 10 14:36
schestowitz*bossSep 10 14:36
EruaranWe received this through our partnership with AcerSep 10 14:36
EruaranMarket analysis so we could assess our position in the marketSep 10 14:37
schestowitzOops/Sep 10 14:37
schestowitzI mixed up ASUS and Acer in some places.Sep 10 14:37
EruaranMost of it was useful information... kind of like rat poison is something like 99% harmless.Sep 10 14:37
schestowitzit's worth writing about this later.Sep 10 14:38
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*Songjun slaps Songjun around a bit with a large troutSep 10 14:39
EruaranWe can and do pre-install GNU/Linux on desktop PC's for customers.Sep 10 14:39
EruaranBut its impossible to get a notebook without Vista.Sep 10 14:40
Songjunhi thereSep 10 14:40
Songjunis this the usual number of chatters in the channel?Sep 10 14:40
EruaranYou can get Vista, or XP, or Vista & XP.Sep 10 14:40
EruaranThe situation is ridiculous.Sep 10 14:41
schestowitzHi, Songjun.Sep 10 14:41
Songjunhey schestowitzSep 10 14:41
_Dougot: Stephen Norris Capital Partners ("SNCP") involved in 'restructuring' deal with SCO | Robert Kasten is on the board of Norris-Robbins | Robert Kasten is also a board member of the Alexis-de-Tocqueville | "The Alexis de Tocqueville Institution, who as you may recall admitted it gets funding from Microsoft, has put out a press release"Sep 10 14:41
EruaranThere's a worm going around that installs itself on people's USB keys.Sep 10 14:41
_Doughttp://www.groklaw.net/article.php...Sep 10 14:41
schestowitz_Doug: where did you find this?Sep 10 14:41
schestowitzOhSep 10 14:41
EruaranWe remove this on a beautiful GNU/Linux system with a glorious looking KDE 4.1.1 desktop.Sep 10 14:41
Songjuni was just wondering just how severe the novell/microsoft deal has had on opensuseSep 10 14:42
Songjunespecially on the development sideSep 10 14:42
_Doughttp://www.groklaw.net/article.php?s...Sep 10 14:42
schestowitzEruaran: Microsoft has gone far to ensure Vista is forced upon people.Sep 10 14:42
EruaranAnd when people ask 'wont that system get the virus ?'Sep 10 14:42
schestowitzThat's sad, but it's not something to report about.Sep 10 14:42
EruaranWe say, 'No, this is Linux'Sep 10 14:42
_DougEruaran: Windows or Apple or Linux 'virus' ? - it's so 1978 again -- only it used to be floppies .. :)Sep 10 14:43
EruaranMany average folks simply don't comprehend that they can use a different operating system.Sep 10 14:43
schestowitz_Doug: I have something you probably want to see.Sep 10 14:43
schestowitzAnd inform GL about.Sep 10 14:43
_DougOK, msg me privetlySep 10 14:44
schestowitzSee Carlyle Group here: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/08/2...Sep 10 14:44
schestowitztwitter found out some stuff about it.Sep 10 14:44
schestowitzNorris.Sep 10 14:44
EruaranI find it so discouraging sometimes.Sep 10 14:44
schestowitzSongjun: opensuse shares the same code as most distros, so it's not affected on an individual basis.Sep 10 14:45
EruaranFeel like quitting the industry but I don't know what else I'd do.Sep 10 14:45
schestowitzIn other words, it's almost identical to other distros, which don't have the same burden (Microsoft/Novell)Sep 10 14:45
schestowitzBTW, benjamin, it's [H]omer who set a ban overnight. I don't know how to remove it properly. When I do, it's being restored .Sep 10 14:45
schestowitzEruaran: Microsoft is falling, but it's gradual.Sep 10 14:46
EruaranWe've had operating systems that don't have to reboot after updating files or installing software since Bill Gates was still in college. And yet people are still using this weak and miserable operating system.Sep 10 14:46
schestowitzThey won't last for long, but it's the Apple crowd that might become an issue.Sep 10 14:46
schestowitzWell, gates had a lot of money and connection and no ethics at all.Sep 10 14:47
schestowitzAs Intel demonstrates, it's usually the bad  (corrupt) people that 'win'Sep 10 14:47
schestowitzOr as one band put it, "nice guys finish last".Sep 10 14:47
MinceR155559 < Songjun> i was just wondering just how severe the novell/microsoft deal has had on opensuseSep 10 14:48
EruaranI had a guy recently who claimed in front of me that if you visit a bunch of bad websites with Linux you'll get viruses just like you do with Windows. I asked him how much money he was willing to place on that bet. He backed down when he saw I was serious.Sep 10 14:48
MinceRif benJIman is any indication, it has turned those people into microsoft shills too :>Sep 10 14:48
schestowitzEruaran: RMS stayed in MIT because he "refused to live like this". That is, according to him, being enslaved to binary Gods is something that he needed to fight.Sep 10 14:49
Eruaran*nod*Sep 10 14:51
Songjunschestowitz: hmm.. however i'm sure that with this deal, usership of the opensuse distro will start to fall.. and thus might affect the number of people who might want to contribute to opensuseSep 10 14:51
schestowitzRMS did something useful with his life. He created a whole system (or helped in creating it) that everyone even in poor countries can use for free (also libre)Sep 10 14:51
EruaranThere are a few good universities here in AustraliaSep 10 14:51
EruaranRMIT, La TrobeSep 10 14:52
schestowitzI've been tied to UoM even though I finished all my 'real work' like 3 years ago.Sep 10 14:52
EruaranThere is one university that is a running joke thoughSep 10 14:52
EruaranAnd that is Deakin UniversitySep 10 14:52
schestowitzI' shocked that I'm still around to hang around here, use the clusters for massive experiments, etc.Sep 10 14:52
_DougEruaran: go into teaching, or start your own small company, it's a lot more satisfying .. that beign micro-managed by a total fucking idiot !Sep 10 14:53
EruaranOtherwise known as M$-DeakinSep 10 14:53
Songjunmincer : haha :P why, has he been promoting the wonders of microsoft?Sep 10 14:53
Songjuni'm still a little ignorant on this issue thoughSep 10 14:53
schestowitzMicrosoft creates 'jobs': virus cleaners.Sep 10 14:53
Songjunbut to have a website dedicated to boycotting novell.. means its quite serious :PSep 10 14:53
schestowitzAll bow to 'Makers of Jobs'Sep 10 14:53
SongjunlolSep 10 14:53
EruaranIt is satisfying though to get a customer to switchSep 10 14:54
MinceRSongjun: he was mostly defending novell and their role in microsoft's patent racket/FUD campaign.Sep 10 14:54
EruaranAnd see that status quo brokenSep 10 14:54
Songjunmincer : hmm icic, did you guys use to contribute to the opensuse distro before this ?Sep 10 14:55
EruaranI figure every single happy GNU/Linux user I have a part in creating... three of their friends will hear about it.Sep 10 14:55
MinceRi never didSep 10 14:55
MinceRi never liked suseSep 10 14:55
Songjunlol!Sep 10 14:56
SongjunicicSep 10 14:56
MinceRit has always had a bad reputation and it was confirmed when a friend had me install it for himSep 10 14:56
MinceRit has the suckiest installer i've ever seen, especially the netinstall partSep 10 14:56
Songjunyou know of any contributors who packed and left just cause ?Sep 10 14:56
MinceRand it ran some program that ruined keyboard input on xSep 10 14:56
MinceR(my friend hunted that down eventually)Sep 10 14:56
EruaranI always fel that Suse was an "almost there" distro, that always seemed promising but never seemed to be "finished".Sep 10 14:57
schestowitzSongjun: I was a SUSE user on all my machines.Sep 10 14:57
schestowitzI helped SUSE users in forums.Sep 10 14:57
EruaranI hated suse with kde4Sep 10 14:57
Eruaranthe way they changed some basic thingsSep 10 14:58
Eruaranin ways that I know wont help the user at allSep 10 14:58
Songjunschestowitz: hmm icic did you stop contributing after the novell/ms deal just cause?Sep 10 14:58
_DougopenSuSE was was idiosyncratic, to say the leastSep 10 14:58
EruaranLike, "System Settings" in KDE4.x is not System Settings in SuseSep 10 14:58
EruaranI think thats plain stupidSep 10 14:58
Songjuni know the mailing list archives are chock full of people ranting about it and saying they gave upSep 10 14:59
_DougI stick to a few bash scripts .. :)Sep 10 14:59
schestowitzSongjun: yes, days afterwards. Bruce Perens' letter was the first to make some people, including myself, what it all meant.Sep 10 14:59
Songjunbut i wonder how many actually did leaveSep 10 14:59
schestowitzI don't think that matters.Sep 10 14:59
EruaranOne distro's loss is another's gainSep 10 14:59
Songjuneruaran: true thatSep 10 15:00
schestowitzUbuntu has gained a lot since.Sep 10 15:00
_DougI do believe the GUI is overrated .. at lest the current one, menus and click boxed .. you *still* have to tel lthe computer what to do. Yea, I know this is computer heracy, so burn me at the stake ..Sep 10 15:00
Songjunoh when i mean 'leave', leave in the sense they decided to concentrate on other distrosSep 10 15:00
EruaranI like to keep up with the whole semantic desktop thingSep 10 15:00
Eruaranlooks exciting to meSep 10 15:01
Eruaranthis is where free desktops can really pull aheadSep 10 15:01
EruaranI believe that if Microsoft ever does actually develop and release 'WinFS', it makes apps totally platform/filesystem dependant and it will drive developers away.Sep 10 15:03
EruaranI like what the KDE team are doingSep 10 15:03
EruaranIts actually real rubber on the road stuffSep 10 15:03
EruaranWhere apps aren't made platform dependantSep 10 15:04
schestowitzSeigo wrote about Nepumok the other day (spelling?)Sep 10 15:04
Eruaranyes I read itSep 10 15:04
EruaranI think its really important stuffSep 10 15:07
EruaranI think Microsoft has a serious problem with this - they are years behind and their whole approach (if it really was ever anything more than vaporware) seems unworkableSep 10 15:08
MinceRWinFS has already died.Sep 10 15:09
twitteragainSep 10 15:10
schestowitzWindows is not modular.Sep 10 15:10
schestowitzThey said in 2005 (ish) that they would make it modular but they never did.Sep 10 15:10
schestowitzIt's still vapourware: modularity. How long for? They'll deliver another TurdOS and then  promise that the next one will excel.Sep 10 15:11
EruaranI think they're in real trouble this timeSep 10 15:12
schestowitzMidori is another abstract vapourware because they know 7 will suck (if it's ever released in a shape of something different from SP).Sep 10 15:12
twitterTheir vaporware model is remarkably modular.  Somehow, they manage to separate each release from the previous failure.Sep 10 15:12
schestowitzPeople already know that 7 is Viata+1Sep 10 15:12
Eruaranthe semantic desktop is becoming a reality, and they are not even in the ballparkSep 10 15:12
schestowitzSo they needed another fluffy idea flying in the air. Or maybe it was a leak. Doesn't matter either way.Sep 10 15:12
schestowitzMS: h"In the face of strong competition, Evangelism's focus may shift immediately to the next version of the same technology, however. Indeed, Phase 1 (Evangelism Starts) for version x+1 may start as soon as this Final Release of version X." ttp://boycottnovell.com/wp-content/u ploads/2008/08/comes-3096.pdfSep 10 15:13
twitterDidn't BN cover a M$ email, where Paul Allen or some other M$ executive lamented Apple's tremendous lead in search?Sep 10 15:13
schestowitzYesSep 10 15:14
schestowitzHold onSep 10 15:14
schestowitzIt was Allchin thoughSep 10 15:14
schestowitzhttp://boycottnovell.com/2008/06/...Sep 10 15:14
twitterThat pretty much tells the story.  He said they had something like WinFS, except it worked and was fast.Sep 10 15:14
schestowitzit's _Doug who sent me a pointer to it.Sep 10 15:15
EruaranI think the increasing strength of free software is sooner or later going to hobble M$'s traditional strategy of promoting the next vaporware OS... becuase they have nothing concrete to offer... I know weSep 10 15:15
EruaranI know we've all seen something like this before but I think the gap is going to get much biggerSep 10 15:15
EruaranPropaganda will not be enoughSep 10 15:15
schestowitzEthical gap too.Sep 10 15:15
schestowitzThey play dirtierSep 10 15:16
schestowitzI have 2 more posts comingSep 10 15:16
EruaranA real semantic desktop looks like becoming a reality next year - and devs seem excited enough about it to start using it quickly - And we know Microsoft has nothing like this to offer... only Vista+1 RSI Edition (multi-touch).Sep 10 15:18
EruaranI think describing it doesn't do justice to the possibilities for the end user experienceSep 10 15:19
EruaranI think being able to move and rename a file and have your Amarok playlist still play without saying it cant find the file is only the tip of a very large icebergSep 10 15:20
EruaranAnd Microsoft is the TitanicSep 10 15:20
EruaranJust my thoughts... I could be jumping the gun... but I have a "feeling" about thisSep 10 15:21
schestowitzMicrosoft is a marketing companySep 10 15:26
schestowitzKDE is a development communitySep 10 15:26
schestowitzI recently came to realise that the Asay/Microsoft-imposed FUD about it being dependent on corporations is nonsense.Sep 10 15:27
schestowitzKDE's  commits come from volunteers about 70% of the timeSep 10 15:27
EruaranyesSep 10 15:27
schestowitzYet Asay tries to give me the OSBC (Microsoft-funded) pitch about FOSS being all about moneySep 10 15:28
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schestowitzhttp://boycottnovell.com/2008/03/08/...Sep 10 15:28
_Dougany news on the LSE crash that wasn't related to heavy trading, software, hardware, connectivity or .net ?Sep 10 15:39
*Songjun has quit ()Sep 10 15:39
schestowitzYesSep 10 15:40
schestowitzSee GLSep 10 15:40
neighborleehmm good find indeed..this should leave no room for guesswork as to whether or not mono is a 'risk' roflSep 10 15:41
schestowitzO'Brien laughs at you here: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/09/10/ir...Sep 10 15:41
_DougLarge Hadron Collider Powers Up: no change here .. except everyone turned into a SMURF .. :)Sep 10 15:43
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_Dougschestoman: Where is GL ?Sep 10 15:44
_DougWhere in GL ?Sep 10 15:44
schestowitzGroklaw cited SJVNSep 10 15:44
schestowitzI typed it with one finger, so kept it short.Sep 10 15:44
schestowitzI'm done eating now.Sep 10 15:44
schestowitzSJVN pointed a finger at Accenture and Microsoft.Sep 10 15:45
_DougSJUN ?Sep 10 15:45
schestowitzLet me find it.Sep 10 15:48
EruaranbblSep 10 15:49
*Eruaran has quit (" HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Now with extra fish!")Sep 10 15:49
schestowitzhttp://blogs.computerworld.com/london_st...Sep 10 15:50
neighborleehey peeps..do we know that seth stilll maintains his original positions from 2004, that he posted on his website ?Sep 10 15:51
neighborlee&/or has anyone talked to him recently about any oif this blah blah ...Sep 10 15:52
neighborleeI wonder if he is still part of gnomeSep 10 15:52
schestowitzneighborlee: do people raise that Q?Sep 10 15:52
neighborleenoSep 10 15:56
neighborleeI have raised it just howSep 10 15:56
neighborlee^>nowSep 10 15:57
neighborleejust something I am curious about is allSep 10 15:57
schestowitzGoogled his name yet?Sep 10 15:57
neighborleeno I thoguht you might know offhand since you have done so many studies and commentaries,,no biggie yes I can look.Sep 10 15:57
_Dougot: "First, TradElec runs on more than a 100 HP ProLiant servers in several locations in London. These servers are running Windows Server 2003"Sep 10 15:59
_Doug"On top of this runs the TradElec software itself. This is a custom set of C# and .NET programs, which was created by Microsoft and Accenture .. Its back-end databases, believe it or not, run on Microsoft SQL Server 2000. The goal was to maintain sub-ten millisecond response times. In short, it's meant to be a real-time system"Sep 10 15:59
schestowitz"Microsoft and"Sep 10 15:59
_DougWere any of those 'agile' software companies involved in the NHS disaster ?Sep 10 16:00
schestowitzMicrosoft is still torturing Yahoo: Maritz and Tucci’s Microsoft Slog Against VMwareSep 10 16:01
schestowitzhttp://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/ne...Sep 10 16:01
schestowitzMicrosoft uses Shills here (fact): http://boycottnovell.com/2008/08/15...Sep 10 16:01
schestowitzneighborlee:  if you find the answer, please report back. It's interesting.Sep 10 16:03
neighborleeokSep 10 16:04
_Dougot: O2Micro patent battery charging ..Sep 10 16:08
_Doughttp://www.tradingmarkets.com/.site/ne...Sep 10 16:08
_DougI remember designing such circuits when I used to mess around with kits .. if only I had the foresight to patent it.Sep 10 16:08
schestowitzI'll be impressed when they patent this: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7604293.stmSep 10 16:09
_DougI could go after O2Micro for a percentage .. :)Sep 10 16:09
schestowitzNew: http://www.heise.de/english/newsticker/...Sep 10 16:10
_DougI referenced the Collider in an earlier msg .. that I haven't sent yet .. time distortion ?Sep 10 16:10
neighborleeha yes I saw that on cnn this am ;)Sep 10 16:10
_Doug"Independent current and voltage sensing for each battery enables parallel charging of batteries at different charging currents"Sep 10 16:13
_DougWell fucking DOH .. steering diodes and a current source .. any tech mag going back twenty years would have such circuitrySep 10 16:13
_Douggoogle 'constant current source' 'steering diode'Sep 10 16:14
schestowitz_Doug: you drive the apologists mad: It demonstrates a shoddy Microsoft system and that Get the Facts campaign is flase advertising after those two collapses.Sep 10 16:14
_Doughttp://www.freepatentsonline.com/7414381.htmlSep 10 16:14
_DougYou mean LSE + NHSSep 10 16:15
_DougI would have done it different ..Sep 10 16:15
_Doug"High-side current-sensing smart battery charger" fucking doh a PNP power transister + a constant current source + a current/voltage sensor .. kiddie stuff ...Sep 10 16:17
_DougI hereby patent an asymetrical mechanical device for removing the tops of cylindrical food containersSep 10 16:18
_DougThe deluxe version is ambidextrious .. :0Sep 10 16:19
schestowitzFile away.Sep 10 16:19
_DougI designed sound to light units (at least on paper) only mine didn't allow the power rail onto the audio ground rail, used opto-coupling ..#Sep 10 16:20
_DougSo, no hum on the audio .. or danger of getting electrocuted ..Sep 10 16:21
_DougI got hold of a bunch of Marconi manuals, most of these circuits were known even then, yea Marconi ..Sep 10 16:22
_DougAn analog Radar unit from WW2, used active noise cancelation on the power rail ..Sep 10 16:22
_DougAnti-rain circuit, the display could scroll with the speed of the ship, so you got a trace on screen ..Sep 10 16:23
_DougI designed and build my own NiCAD charger ..Sep 10 16:24
_Doug"System and method for controlling excessive charging-current in a battery power system"Sep 10 16:25
twitterHad a good laugh at O'Brain, but have to power down now.  See you later.Sep 10 16:25
schestowitzCan Marconi be resurrected as a paten troll maybe?Sep 10 16:25
schestowitzLike Avistar's attempts?Sep 10 16:26
_DougA timer + a distarge circuit + a timed charging circuit ..Sep 10 16:26
schestowitztwitter: good luck.Sep 10 16:26
neighborleeI think this experiment might be futile at this stage of our technical development , I mean we speculate on dark matter like its a hard fast rule and then proclaim we know enough about the intracacies of the universe and how they all interrelate, to know on any level what happened moments about the 'big bang' LOL..one day I suspect we'll know a lot more, but imho atm its in its infancy stages, if that ;)Sep 10 16:26
_Dougtime for a break .. my arse is gettig numb ...Sep 10 16:26
schestowitzneighborlee: you don't believe in evolution, I suppose.Sep 10 16:27
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neighborleeschestowitz, I doSep 10 16:27
schestowitz_Doug: you should patent something on it.Sep 10 16:27
schestowitzneighborlee: ah, okay.Sep 10 16:27
neighborleeschestowitz, but no one knows HOW it happened ;)Sep 10 16:27
neighborleeso pftSep 10 16:27
schestowitzI still fail to see the use of such large experiments.Sep 10 16:27
neighborleethats my point yesSep 10 16:27
schestowitzIt's to fulfill curiosity and to advance just a bit.Sep 10 16:28
neighborleeyesSep 10 16:28
schestowitzBut it's so much work and the world has other issues like global warming and hunger, not fantasies about other planets, even if colonies can be built there (big f* deal(Sep 10 16:28
neighborleewell its imo all related anyway...we need to u nderstand our universe , and our planet of couse obviously, as if we dont well we might find our species starting over from scratch because whether or not people know about it or not, there are huge threats out there , which if occured would see nuclear bombs pale in comparison ;)Sep 10 16:33
neighborleeso yeah, we need to colonize space etc, else we could easily go extinct LOLSep 10 16:33
neighborleeblink of an eye ;)Sep 10 16:33
schestowitzOh no: http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/sho...Sep 10 16:34
schestowitzThat's like Microsoft joining the Linux FoundationSep 10 16:34
schestowitzBunch of FUDsters. Is this a joke? It was founded by a Microsoft lad.Sep 10 16:34
_DougYou mean like a rubber beach ring my old boss used to sit on .. :)Sep 10 16:42
schestowitzBetter than your boss working on the toilet seat, then coming to use your keyboardSep 10 16:42
_DougHaemoroid prevention device .. :)Sep 10 16:43
_Dougshe used to sit on it in her office ..Sep 10 16:43
_Dougwas a big girl .. looked like a Hippo in a dress ..Sep 10 16:43
_DougBlackDuck .. ?Sep 10 16:44
_Dougembrace and pollute ..Sep 10 16:44
_Doug"Black Duck provides solutions for software development teams and legal counsel to manage the hybrid software development process"Sep 10 16:45
schestowitzVMware with Martitz is already there.. and NovellSep 10 16:45
schestowitzThe Linux Foundation thing is becoming as 'diluted' as OSI, which already has Microsoft in it.Sep 10 16:45
_DougIf you went totaly GPL, then you wouldn't need 'corporate counsels or outside law firms"Sep 10 16:46
schestowitzPeople in the Linux Foundation don't even /use/ GNU/Linux.Sep 10 16:46
schestowitzIt's confirmed now. No more NovellBallnux from Lenovo: http://practical-tech.com/infrastructure/le...Sep 10 16:48
schestowitzMore business for Dellbuntu hopefully.Sep 10 16:49
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_DougWhat about the IBM "Microsoft-free" desktopsSep 10 16:52
_Doughttp://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS8440296446.htmlSep 10 16:53
_DougWhy don't a major OEM buy up a Linux distro and start selling a high-end multimedia machine and a basic Internet-ready one .. they would fly off the shelves ..Sep 10 16:54
_DougThey would of course have to be availabe in the high-street computer shop ..Sep 10 16:54
_DougThe Del+Ubuntu shop .. like the Apple shop .. sales and support .. if you need to take it back ..Sep 10 16:55
_DougA subscription service for software + movies + tv ..Sep 10 16:56
schestowitzI remembered about IBMSep 10 16:56
_DougWhat happened to Linspire + Wallmart ?Sep 10 16:56
schestowitzWrote about it this morning in fact: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/09/10/len...Sep 10 16:56
schestowitzLinspire is no more.Sep 10 16:56
schestowitzWal-mart is in any case very close to Microsoft (executive shuffles and monopolies that think alike)Sep 10 16:57
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_DougWhere can I buy one of these ?Sep 10 16:58
_Doughttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcNwnANrCpwSep 10 16:58
schestowitz http://www.zdnetasia.com/news/communic... Opera joins Symbian FoundationSep 10 16:59
MinceR:(Sep 10 16:59
MinceRopera is getting into bad companySep 10 16:59
schestowitzI can check for you, _Doug.Sep 10 16:59
schestowitzDragon something sells it...Sep 10 17:00
schestowitzOr just do what BillG and SwteatyB do: http://www.zdnetasia.com/news/communicat...Sep 10 17:00
schestowitzOops. This one: http://boycottnovell.com/comes-vs-...Sep 10 17:00
schestowitzFunny typo on "Sweaty"Sep 10 17:01
schestowitzhttp://antitrust.slated.org/www.iowacon...Sep 10 17:01
_Dougthat site seems to be dissapeared ..Sep 10 17:04
schestowitzWhich one? The cyberjacked one?Sep 10 17:05
_Doughttp://antitrust.slated.org/ ?Sep 10 17:05
_Dougno wrong link ..Sep 10 17:06
schestowitzit's OCRed... some of it, I think.Sep 10 17:07
schestowitzThe text above is 25-pages long. You extracted just a paragraph. Lots of crime to skim through...Sep 10 17:08
_DougThe one about dumpster diving ..Sep 10 17:09
schestowitzYeah, some guy got it.Sep 10 17:09
schestowitzIt was once posted to USENETSep 10 17:09
schestowitzNot anymore though. Microsoft tried to hide all that s*Sep 10 17:10
schestowitzLet me find it. Quiet settlement, just like Caldera... following by destruction.Sep 10 17:10
schestowitzI tried to contact Conlin but no answer.Sep 10 17:10
_DougPX06262.pdf seems to be dissapeared ..Sep 10 17:10
schestowitzI asked for copies of the text or validation, IIRC. They must have gagged her agency as 'part of the settlement'. Kind of  like the 3 monkeys.Sep 10 17:10
schestowitzNo, it's there. I've just opened iy.Sep 10 17:11
schestowitz*itSep 10 17:11
schestowitzGrouchy's archives is dropping some though.Sep 10 17:11
_Dougnop, I mean the original of bill goes dumpster diving .. the advertSep 10 17:11
schestowitzI can't recall which one, but one of the prominent mirrors seems to have given up on a few and I don't know why. Worth asking in GLSep 10 17:11
schestowitzWhere was it?Sep 10 17:11
schestowitzYouTube?Sep 10 17:12
schestowitzhttp://www.roxanneconlinlaw.com/CM/Cu...Sep 10 17:12
_Doug"A glimse, to inspire your confidence in senior management, about how weSep 10 17:12
_Dougdevelop stratagy"Sep 10 17:12
schestowitzhttp://www.iowamicrosoftcase.com/Sep 10 17:13
_Dougis that text in PX06262.pdf ?Sep 10 17:13
schestowitzNothing about what actually happened and what Conlin showed (that Microsoft hid)Sep 10 17:13
schestowitzhttp://www.iowamicrosoftcase.com/pdfs/...Sep 10 17:14
schestowitzSo Conclin's office uses Microsoft server and they only give damages for _MICROSOFT SOFTWARE_. How incompetent is *that*? Microsoft gives its software for free /already/ just so that people get locked in with their dataSep 10 17:14
schestowitzAsk her < http://www.roxanneconlinlaw.com/CM... > why we can't see Microsoft's reasons for settlement anymore.Sep 10 17:16
_DougI found it, it's on page 10 (that's numbered from AcroReader and not the internal numbering) .. :)Sep 10 17:19
schestowitzhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrwnJDQy0ic ( Steve Ballmer feat. Bill Gates - Da da da )Sep 10 17:20
_DougThat's the whole point of a settlement, so has you don't have to show your cards ..Sep 10 17:20
schestowitz"A lengthy anecdote about accounting irregularities exposed by whistleblower Charles Pancerzewski concludes weakly, "Microsoft paid over $4 million to make Pancerzewski go away, an amount that presumably wouldn't be paid out without the Office of the President, the trio to which Ballmer belonged, signing off on it."Sep 10 17:20
schestowitzFrom http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business... about Microsoft fraud allegationsSep 10 17:21
_Doug500: internel server error: can't browse the directories .. :(Sep 10 17:21
_Doughttp://antitrust.slated.org/www.iowaconsumerca...Sep 10 17:21
schestowitzThe Seattle Press is of course trying to dismiss it. Are they funded by Microsoft directly or just indirectly?Sep 10 17:21
_DougNot necessarly, but once commercial interests are involved, the players are reluctant to rock-the-boat, risk lose advertising etc ..Sep 10 17:25
_DougHow many business do business with Microsoft, in a non-software area ?Sep 10 17:26
schestowitzMicrosoft coverage is the P-I's bread and butter.Sep 10 17:28
schestowitzBut that too is a general issue in the press. you can't expect fair coverage when journos write for their next paycheck. Gates and Microsoft both funnel money into media companies.Sep 10 17:28
_Dougpt: Obama "You know you can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig."Sep 10 17:31
_DougHe said that last year in relation to a comment by Sen. Hillary ClintonSep 10 17:32
_DougSe he didn't mean Palin, he meant Hill . .:)Sep 10 17:33
_Doug"That's not change. That's just calling something the same thing something different. You know you can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig. You know you can wrap an old fish in a piece of paper called change, it's still going to stink after eight years. We've had enough of the same old thing." VideoSep 10 17:34
_DougActually, 'fish' is a pejorative in the Saphic community .. so I've been told .. :)Sep 10 17:35
_DougThat's even worse .. :)Sep 10 17:35
_Doug"You know the difference between a hockey mom and a pit bull? Lipstick."Sep 10 17:36
_DougYOu know,she reminds me of Lisa Simpson when she grows up ..Sep 10 17:37
_DougOr www.shelley the Republican http://www.shelleytherepublican.com/Sep 10 17:37
_DougOnly Shelly is tryign to be funny ...Sep 10 17:38
schestowitzIs it a Shelley?Sep 10 17:38
schestowitzDoes the author had a real identity?Sep 10 17:39
_DougProbably a buch of script writers .. it's so good .. almost fools you ...Sep 10 17:39
_DougI watch some of Palin on YOutube and it could almost pas muster on shellythe..Sep 10 17:40
_Doug"I think God fearing Republicans will understand me when I say that one of the wonderful things about Alaska is that it is so pure and white"Sep 10 17:41
_DougThat's from Shelly .. not Palin .. :)Sep 10 17:41
schestowitzAlaska? Home of recent corruption?Sep 10 17:42
schestowitzNot so white: http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&...Sep 10 17:42
schestowitzRemember: biggest crooks wear suits, but they are smart/rich enough to sneak their way out of justice.Sep 10 17:43
_Doughttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QG1vPYbRB7k&...Sep 10 17:44
*schestowitz looksSep 10 17:44
schestowitz[ducks /] A nation of ~300 million and they can't find a person better?Sep 10 17:46
schestowitzMcCain too is a toy to corporationsSep 10 17:46
schestowitzJust like Stevens.Sep 10 17:46
schestowitzIt seems as though the biggest *ahem* crooks  are best at buying their way into positions of power with the help of megacorps that they then serve. No wonder Lessig is furious.Sep 10 17:47
_DougOK: get back on topic ..Sep 10 17:47
schestowitzByfield and the guy I used to write to sort of troll Slashdot now.Sep 10 17:48
schestowitzIt's annoying to watch it, but I won't open that boxSep 10 17:48
schestowitzThere should be a new word for it: "headline-trolling" (see if you can spot it in /.)Sep 10 17:48
_DougPM:Sep 10 17:49
schestowitzI wrote about it here: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/08/31/...Sep 10 17:49
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neighborleeschestowitz, well we'll seee, I emailed seth , so if I get a reply Ill make sure to let you know.Sep 10 18:08
schestowitzWhere's he now? Do you know..?Sep 10 18:09
neighborleenopeSep 10 18:12
neighborleeI checked and 'seth' isn't in #gnome atm anywaySep 10 18:13
neighborleecould be any nick of course lolSep 10 18:13
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schestowitzhttp://www.cafuego.net/2008/09/09/l...Sep 10 18:31
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trmancomehSep 10 19:44
schestowitzHey there.Sep 10 19:44
trmancoCOLA is full of trollsSep 10 19:44
trmancoHiSep 10 19:44
schestowitzYes, it's better to filter/skip their posts. I'm posting there at the moment.Sep 10 19:45
schestowitzThere's something urgent worth writing about: http://www.cafuego.net/2008/09/09/linux... http://brendanscott.wordpress.com/2008/09/1...Sep 10 19:45
trmancocoolSep 10 19:48
trmancowell looks like microsoft fixed a a couple of flaws in their "OS's"Sep 10 19:50
schestowitz8?Sep 10 19:51
trmancohow much flaws do they still have to fix ?Sep 10 19:51
trmancoyeah 8Sep 10 19:51
schestowitzI'm going to do an 'eye on MS" post as well.Sep 10 19:51
schestowitzIt has some bit on security in it.Sep 10 19:51
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trmancoyesSep 10 19:52
trmancois Linonut a troll or a advocate?Sep 10 19:53
trmancoby the name I would say he is a troll...Sep 10 19:53
*_Doug (n=ISA4567@193.122.47.170) has joined #boycottnovellSep 10 19:54
schestowitzLinonut is one of the good guys. He's just joking sometimes.Sep 10 19:55
schestowitzWe have a list of the trolls.Sep 10 19:55
trmancoyes that blog on bloggerSep 10 19:56
schestowitzhttp://colatrolls.blogspot.com/Sep 10 19:56
trmancoI've seen it already,but are they all there?Sep 10 19:56
schestowitzSome change their names.Sep 10 19:56
schestowitzI don't know who runs the blog.Sep 10 19:56
trmancookSep 10 19:57
schestowitzThe trolls have had a bit of a recess. It was worse some months ago.Sep 10 19:58
schestowitzSome are/were Microsoft employees.Sep 10 19:58
schestowitzAlso see: http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.os2.advoc...Sep 10 19:59
*Tallken (n=f2f93bf5@93.102.34.229.rev.optimus.pt) has joined #boycottnovellSep 10 20:09
_Doughi tallken ...Sep 10 20:10
Tallkenhi _DougSep 10 20:11
_Dougwhat distro do you use ?Sep 10 20:11
Tallkenwth?Sep 10 20:13
TallkenopenSuSE? :PSep 10 20:13
_DougAhh .. OK ...Sep 10 20:14
Tallkenlol was just curious to check your reactionSep 10 20:14
TallkenKubuntu, actuallySep 10 20:14
Tallken:PSep 10 20:14
_DougXfce or Fluxbox or Bash ?Sep 10 20:14
TallkenKDE?Sep 10 20:14
_DougI find less is more ..Sep 10 20:15
_DougToo many widgets on screen, distract and draw your attention away ..Sep 10 20:15
schestowitz_Doug: you can hide the widgetsSep 10 20:15
schestowitzSet up keyboard accelerators.Sep 10 20:16
schestowitzMouse gestures even. But for each its own. For everyone else there's masterc... errr. emacs.Sep 10 20:16
_DougI find, unless I have a highspec machine, that all the background stuff slows down the response .. I recall long ago, switching screens was almost instantaniousSep 10 20:20
_DougI don't need a widget popping up asking me if I want to open the USB device in image-vieweer - if I did I would be doing it ..Sep 10 20:21
_DougDo you want to X, Y, Z .. no .. thanks for nagging me .. now sod off and stop blocking the text I'm reading ... :)Sep 10 20:22
schestowitzSounds like you has an experience with ClippiX.Sep 10 20:22
_DougWhat ever, the app nagging me to do stuff isn't helping ..Sep 10 20:23
_DougI usually set mine up to look like the Apple .. :)Sep 10 20:25
_DougI also have a customized XP desktop for the refugees from WindowsLand that come in here ..Sep 10 20:26
_DougIt's amazing watching the expression on their faces when you tell them they've been using Linux ...Sep 10 20:26
_DougIt's just like Windows !!!Sep 10 20:26
_Douggtg ..Sep 10 20:27
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schestowitzTallken: it's posted now:  http://boycottnovell.com/2008/09/10/failures-...Sep 10 21:47
Tallkenschestowitz: weird, didn't expect NBC to go back to flashSep 10 21:50
Tallkennot that I am complaining :DSep 10 21:50
schestowitzMe neither.Sep 10 21:50
TallkenHum, greater user baseSep 10 21:52
Tallkenhum, I wonder whySep 10 21:52
TallkenI could consider installing silverlightSep 10 21:52
Tallkenif there was a Linux versionSep 10 21:52
Tallkenjackasses :@Sep 10 21:52
TallkenI did install in Windows out of curiositySep 10 21:53
Tallkenclearly I was too curiousSep 10 21:53
schestowitzNo, they want to deprive GNU/Linux and then point at Miguel&NovellSep 10 21:53
TallkenI should deinstall it soonSep 10 21:53
schestowitzThat's the 'beauty' of it.Sep 10 21:53
schestowitzThey disserve Linux but use Novell as their excuse... also to the EU.Sep 10 21:53
TallkenyaSep 10 21:53
schestowitzNo hypervisor support? No, no... they work with Linux.... NOVELL Linux.Sep 10 21:53
TallkenNovell isn't doing their part lolSep 10 21:53
schestowitzOnly that which passes royalties to Microsoft.Sep 10 21:53
Tallkenthe usualSep 10 21:54
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