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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: September 10th, 2008

Posted in IRC Logs at 5:13 am by Dr. Roy Schestowitz


Enter the IRC channel now

schestowitz They knew what they had done. Sep 09 22:15
schestowitz (the upper management) Sep 09 22:15
schestowitz Novell /INITIATED/ this deal. Sep 09 22:15
benJIman Interpret it how you will. In my experience incompetence is more likely than malice. Sep 09 22:15
benJIman I’m not sure they initiated the patent aspect though. Sep 09 22:16
MinceR if it’s a selfish deal, they’re still stupid — they’re blatantly harming the community that produces most of the value their own customers use Sep 09 22:16
MinceR it’s not a good business strategy to give your own customers the finger in the hope of getting money from one of your biggest and most devious competitors. Sep 09 22:17
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schestowitz http://blogs.computerworld.com/london_stoc… : London Stock Exchange suffers .NET Crash Sep 09 22:47
schestowitz Sep 09 22:47
schestowitz On top of this runs the TradElec software itself. This is a custom set of C# and .NET programs, which was created by Microsoft and Accenture, the global consulting firm. Its back-end databases, believe it or not, run on Microsoft SQL Server 2000. The goal was to maintain sub-ten millisecond response times. In short, it’s meant to be a real-time system. “ Sep 09 22:47
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tessier_ So do we know what caused the crash yet? Sep 09 22:50
tessier_ Was it Dot Not? Sep 09 22:50
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tessier_ schestowitz: It seems he has no idea what caused the problem either. Sep 09 22:55
schestowitz http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2008/sep/09/lo… Sep 09 22:57
schestowitz “In June last year the LSE switched from its 10-year-old Sets system in favour of a new platform called TradElect, which runs on Microsoft software.” Sep 09 22:57
schestowitz 1 year, two days of failures. Not bad, eh? What’s that? Like 99% uptime? For a stock market? Sep 09 22:57
tessier_ USDOJ shopping for a lawyer for google anti-trust suit? /. Sep 09 23:01
tessier_ What has google done to maintain a monopoly? Sep 09 23:01
tessier_ I will be seriously pissed if they go after google but don’t go after MS Sep 09 23:01
tessier_ Two days of failures? Did they have another outage prior to the most recent 6 hour outage? Sep 09 23:01
schestowitz It’s Microsoft who’s behind this. Sep 09 23:03
schestowitz They use a variety of proxies to stir things up. Let me find an example… Sep 09 23:03
schestowitz It’s a case of an abusive corrupt monopoly using its abusive corrupt nature to accuse others of being dangerous:  http://boycottnovell.com/2008/08/15/lawme… Sep 09 23:04
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schestowitz http://www.osnews.com/story/20266/Patent… Sep 09 23:14
schestowitz http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn… It has just occurred to me that IBM and Lenovo recently started talking about Open Client or whatever they call that Red Hat/Ubuntu/SUSE Lotus combo they announced in LinuxWorld. Lenovo admitted that it spoke to IBM about it, so it could be related. Sep 09 23:24
MinceR http://hasthelargehadroncolliderdestroy… Sep 09 23:32
schestowitz Heh. Try it with JS disabled (me by default). Sep 09 23:33
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schestowitz Check out the page source:  “if the lhc actually destroys the earth & this page isn’t yet updated please email mike@frantic.org to receive a full refund” Sep 09 23:35
MinceR :) Sep 09 23:35
schestowitz *yawn* Sep 09 23:49
*schestowitz is away: Passed out Sep 09 23:49
MinceR http://sackheads.org/~bnaylor/spew/away_msgs.html Sep 09 23:50
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PeterKraus :D Sep 10 01:30
PeterKraus it always make me giggle Sep 10 01:30
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ZiggyFish hey Sep 10 02:35
ZiggyFish is anyone here Sep 10 02:37
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neighborlee ZiggyFish, yup ;) Sep 10 04:28
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schestowitz http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/ne… Sep 10 07:21
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schestowitz This one looks unlikely to be a Microsoft plant: http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2008/0… Sep 10 07:44
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schestowitz Paul Allen is still investing money in Microsofters: http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/v… Sep 10 09:32
schestowitz And NComputing has been stung by a former Microsoft execs, which might affect its Linux choice: http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show/sen… Sep 10 09:32
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PetoKraus oh, so you’ve banned benjiman yesterday? Sep 10 09:58
PetoKraus not nice Sep 10 09:58
schestowitz Huh?? Sep 10 09:59
schestowitz That must be [H]omer Sep 10 09:59
schestowitz I’ll remove the ban. Sep 10 09:59
*schestowitz removes ban on *!*@benjiweber.co.uk Sep 10 09:59
schestowitz Financial Times headline (pure example of brainwash): “Microsoft’s human side – Financial Times” A friend says: “My cynical side says that their outsourced marketing firms are running these headlines to distract from financial troubles…” Sep 10 10:19
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MinceR lol Sep 10 10:25
PetoKraus :D Sep 10 10:25
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schestowitz How can I review the kicklist? I didn’t set this. it was [H]omer. Sep 10 10:28
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MinceR /cs help akick Sep 10 10:34
MinceR (/cs akick #boycottnovell list) Sep 10 10:35
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solis whut ? Sep 10 11:37
solis why are we boycotting novell ? … i mean don tget me wrong i love a good boycott Sep 10 11:38
solis do you guys have any sources for me r? Sep 10 11:38
solis good thing you guys dont boycott vista … since well i like it so much it would be hard for me to join you on your boycott quest Sep 10 11:44
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MinceR solis: long story short, novell was among the first to support microsoft’s patent extortion racket/FUD campaign against linux with a deal with microsoft Sep 10 12:02
MinceR solis: see http://boycottnovell.com/ for details Sep 10 12:03
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solis ican see novell being a bit forced … why not boycott microsoft instead Sep 10 13:19
schestowitz They converge. Sep 10 13:20
schestowitz BoycottNovell addresses both issues. Sep 10 13:20
MinceR we’ve been boycotting m$ for a long time already ;) Sep 10 13:21
solis who isnt ? Sep 10 13:30
MinceR unfortunately some people aren’t Sep 10 13:30
solis hmmm … yhea and it is hard Sep 10 13:31
solis still vista has some improvements Sep 10 13:32
MinceR and many more things where it’s worse than its predecessors Sep 10 13:34
schestowitz Products and corporate behaviour are separate. Sep 10 13:34
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solis why ? Sep 10 13:34
schestowitz Mixing the two is dangerous. It’s like saying “Microsoft is good” rather than “Microsoft Office is good” Sep 10 13:34
schestowitz The remarks from Jim Zemlin came under fire for this reasons. Sep 10 13:34
schestowitz *reason Sep 10 13:34
MinceR microsoft makes them easy to mix Sep 10 13:34
MinceR since they behave in an evil way _and_ make shoddy products Sep 10 13:35
solis microsoft office sucks :S Sep 10 13:35
schestowitz MinceR:  many people never get the opportunity to review other products. Sep 10 13:35
MinceR i know Sep 10 13:35
schestowitz By restricting consumer choice people come to assume that PCs crash and get virii [sic] as a matter of nature. Sep 10 13:35
solis virii is bad latin Sep 10 13:36
solis its one virus 2 virus Sep 10 13:36
solis but back to the boycott … didnt “we” create there monopoly and the bad politics commin with it by all mindlessly using ms-dos and windows ? Sep 10 13:38
solis more important why would ms care about us ? (the hand full in here) Sep 10 13:39
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twitter :) good morning. Sep 10 13:40
schestowitz solis: information is all we can do. Sep 10 13:40
schestowitz They have money with which they corrupt politicians and bribe companies (yes, there’s evidnece). Sep 10 13:40
twitter I liked the toxic influence article from today and the Lenovo from yesterday. Sep 10 13:41
schestowitz To counter such fire you can’t use fire (bribe). The Linux Foundation can try this, which does a lot of harm through hypocrisy. Sep 10 13:41
schestowitz it’s better to combat this by bringing to light what is happening. Sep 10 13:41
schestowitz Lenovo was today. Sep 10 13:42
schestowitz I’m writing another one about VMware at the moment. Sep 10 13:42
solis whats wrong with lenovo ? Sep 10 13:42
solis i like lenovo so far … there cheap hq en …. well they just run Sep 10 13:43
schestowitz Lenovo is close to Novell/Mirosoft. Sep 10 13:44
schestowitz Which is hardly surprising because IBM too endorsed the deal. IBM is not necessarily the good guy here. Sep 10 13:44
solis lenovo is ibm Sep 10 13:44
twitter no, lenovo bought thinkpad. Sep 10 13:45
twitter they are a Chinese company Sep 10 13:45
twitter The destruction of GNU/Linux friendly Thinkpads would be a huge M$ win. Sep 10 13:46
schestowitz All the business goes to China, eh? Except GM. Sep 10 13:46
solis lenovo bought the complete ibm hardware devision Sep 10 13:48
solis and what does gnu/linux friendly mean any way ? Sep 10 13:48
schestowitz Drivers. Choice of Linux-compatible components. Sep 10 13:48
schestowitz I hear that Microsoft broke the law in this regards. Sep 10 13:48
schestowitz *regard Sep 10 13:48
solis lenovo offers to send laptops and computers free from any os … thats more linux friendly than any other laptop dropper Sep 10 13:49
schestowitz On the one hand, it used NDA to create Linux-hostile hardware that nobody could write drivers for. Sep 10 13:49
solis dell and the likes dont do that they all seel including windows Sep 10 13:49
solis hmm nda Sep 10 13:49
schestowitz I also read about Microsoft encouraging the use and dissemination of Linux-hostile components through pricing and deals. Sep 10 13:49
schestowitz solis: Lenovo no longer does this. Sep 10 13:50
schestowitz It used to offer FreeDOS machines, but not anymore. Sep 10 13:50
schestowitz Not to mention the fact that they overchanged for these. Sep 10 13:50
solis i just orderd some new machines excluding windows and they will ship them today :S Sep 10 13:50
schestowitz The French activists are probably the best chance against this. They already slam H-P for forcing people to buy Windows along with hardware. Sep 10 13:50
solis would have been cool to get them with freedos Sep 10 13:50
schestowitz It reminds me of tying of “music industty” tax to everything-storage. Sep 10 13:51
solis maybe i can order os free because i am near france :S Sep 10 13:51
schestowitz Microsoft can tell corruptible politicians that “piracy” hurts it so much, so it’s entitled to “hardware tax” Sep 10 13:51
schestowitz solis: yes, probably Sep 10 13:52
schestowitz It has become risky in France to force people to buy Windows. Sep 10 13:52
schestowitz Here is the UK we have a clown cherishing everything Microsoft. Just watch LSE for a recent demo. Sep 10 13:52
solis microsoft has the biggest market share because of the piracy … if all pirated copies of windows are pulled off the market microsoft would lose that Sep 10 13:52
schestowitz A system worked perfectly fine for ages. A year ago they switched over to an overpriced .NET rubbishware and the system has already collapsed twice. Sep 10 13:53
schestowitz All just so that Microsoft can have an “Anti-Linux” case study (with false ‘Facts’) Sep 10 13:53
solis according to microsoft at least 48% of all pc’s running windows run pirated versions Sep 10 13:53
schestowitz solis: yes, Microsoft admits that it owes its ‘success’ and continues ubiquity to ‘piracy’ Sep 10 13:53
solis .net sucks no one will argue with that :D Sep 10 13:53
schestowitz It bemoans it only when it needs excuses (e.g. profits fall). Sep 10 13:54
solis thats why they dont work to hard to prevent pirating ;) Sep 10 13:54
schestowitz It’s a lot more than 48% Sep 10 13:54
solis i know Sep 10 13:54
solis i just couldnt find any good source so i got stuck at 48% Sep 10 13:54
schestowitz Maybe even 80%. That would not surprise me. In developing countries Microsoft risks losing if it charges for Linux. Sep 10 13:54
schestowitz Bill Gates (2007): “It’s easier for our software to compete with Linux when there’s piracy than when there’s not.” Sep 10 13:55
solis 80% is a bit high i guess …, but over half i do belive since microsoft stated that themselfs Sep 10 13:55
schestowitz That figure may also explains why Microsoft has financial issues that it hides. Sep 10 13:55
schestowitz The US in general is in deep debt, but I don’t know how Microsoft fits into this. Sep 10 13:56
solis lol Sep 10 13:56
solis microsoft has no money its all from shareholders Sep 10 13:56
schestowitz See http://www.billparish.com/msftfraudfacts.html when you have thr time. Sep 10 13:56
schestowitz solis: yes. Sep 10 13:56
solis if they pull back there money there is no more microsoft Sep 10 13:56
schestowitz If they can get enough money pulled in, they can use it like a pyramid scheme Sep 10 13:56
solis in other words they dont need profits they just need good pr Sep 10 13:56
schestowitz They liquidate using the Gates Fundation [sic] Sep 10 13:56
schestowitz solis: yes, and they intimidate people who say the truth. Sep 10 13:57
solis i am not intimidated … and well … let them try :P Sep 10 13:57
schestowitz http://boycottnovell.com/2008/08/… Sep 10 13:58
schestowitz That was /before/ the bubble. Sep 10 13:58
solis we should get the micheal moore to make a documentary about it Sep 10 13:58
schestowitz Well, if he bothers. Sep 10 13:58
schestowitz Political issues are more important. Sep 10 13:58
schestowitz They cost lives. Sep 10 13:58
schestowitz Frhrenheir 9/11 for example related to death of many Iraqui civilians. Sep 10 13:58
schestowitz Sicko is about the death of people in the US due to a bad and corrupt system Sep 10 13:59
schestowitz You can find out about corruption around dietary recommendation in this talk from Prof. Lessig: http://lessig.org/blog/2008/07/netro… Sep 10 13:59
solis this is politics … it affects how we work and stuff world wide … Sep 10 14:00
schestowitz Mind you, ‘piracy’ of Office will be higher than Windows because of preloads. Sep 10 14:00
schestowitz (many typos above BTW…. Fahrenheit for instance) Sep 10 14:00
solis hmm might be … though i dont know any one that hacks the preinstall most of them just down a torrent Sep 10 14:00
twitter What do you know about Return Path? Sep 10 14:01
twitter My ISP uses them and they just blocked a mail list I’m on. Sep 10 14:02
solis :s Sep 10 14:02
solis can they block mail ?? Sep 10 14:02
solis sue them and get rich !! Sep 10 14:02
twitter It reminds me of this http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/091307Z.shtml Sep 10 14:03
twitter and, of course, M$ will be exploiting it to disrupt GNU/Linux mail lists. Sep 10 14:03
solis again sue them and get rich Sep 10 14:03
solis freedom of spaech and information right ? Sep 10 14:04
solis who is m$ to stop that ? Sep 10 14:04
schestowitz Return Path? Sep 10 14:04
solis dude … i really dropped me spelling Sep 10 14:04
schestowitz I thought you said rPath (Novell puppet) Sep 10 14:04
twitter http://sendersupport.senderscore.net/ Sep 10 14:04
twitter http://www.returnpath.net/ Sep 10 14:05
schestowitz .NET Sep 10 14:05
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schestowitz It runs on a *NIX server though. Netcraft masks it. Sep 10 14:06
twitter This is a PR friendly way to censor email. Sep 10 14:07
MinceR lol rPath Sep 10 14:07
MinceR the only distro i’ve ever seen that ships with a package manager that destroys itself. Sep 10 14:07
twitter It’s about extending corporate control to personal conversations. Sep 10 14:08
twitter and stomping out grass roots movements. Sep 10 14:08
twitter they do it in the name of spam filtering. Sep 10 14:08
twitter If Return Path is running .NET, it is surely a M$ puppet. Sep 10 14:09
zoobab rpath is where Peter Hanvin works? Sep 10 14:10
solis hmm imma go repair some mssql 2k5 server so i wont be back before like … late :D Sep 10 14:11
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schestowitz twitter: could it be a concidence? Sep 10 14:18
schestowitz *coincidence  . I mean, it’s easy to jump the gun. Sep 10 14:18
schestowitz You’d need to do a little experiment and then present what you find. Sep 10 14:18
schestowitz Like vista error log. Sep 10 14:18
schestowitz twitter: I don’t think it runs .NET. I was referring to the domain name of the homepage. Very few (if any) among the filtering/security appliances run /anything/ Microsoft.. BSD and Linux are popular. Sep 10 14:19
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Eruaran hi Sep 10 14:20
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schestowitz zoobab: is rPath  a patent felon. I seem to recall something. Sep 10 14:20
schestowitz hi, Eruaran. Sep 10 14:20
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Eruaran hello schestowitz Sep 10 14:20
MinceR schestowitz: link please Sep 10 14:20
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Eruaran Is anyone able to get GNU/Linux Eee’s anymore ? Sep 10 14:21
Eruaran We had a customer who wanted a 901 with Linux but we couldn’t get one Sep 10 14:22
Eruaran The major supplier is only offering XP Sep 10 14:22
schestowitz MinceR: link to what? Sep 10 14:24
schestowitz Eruaran: let me find a post for you. Sep 10 14:24
Eruaran Can get Linux on a 900 Celeron but not a 901 Atom Sep 10 14:24
schestowitz http://boycottnovell.com/2008/08… Sep 10 14:24
twitter Yeah, it could be coincidence but there’s no way that I can find out on my own.  It takes a collection of incidents to make a pattern. Sep 10 14:24
schestowitz Since then, however, it has been confirmed that there is an Atom shortage. Supply/demand rules are still not obeyed though. Sep 10 14:25
twitter Even if they blocked all of my lists, I’m still one person. Sep 10 14:25
schestowitz Well, twitter, Microsoft manipulates its search results to suit business agenda, so… :-) Sep 10 14:26
Eruaran We have had requests for both versions, but only one is made available. Sep 10 14:26
schestowitz In Australia? Sep 10 14:27
schestowitz There was some funny ASUS business in Australia a while back (APCMag and ITWire reported) Sep 10 14:27
schestowitz They charged more for Linux and later ‘corrected’ it. Supply was another issue, IIRC. Sep 10 14:28
twitter LOL.  Supply and the cost of stocking XP models no one wants. Sep 10 14:28
Eruaran This is from within our company who is partners with Acer: Gartner did a market study fo Acer and told Acer that Asus was having “a lot of trouble” with Linux and it isn’t working for them so they are getting out of it. I did note to our directors that Gartners biggest client is Microsoft but only a couple of people were listening. Sep 10 14:28
MinceR schestowitz: rPath’s patent felony Sep 10 14:29
schestowitz of course. Sep 10 14:29
schestowitz Gartner is a mouth piece. Sep 10 14:29
twitter I thought Acer just bet big time on GNU/Linux.. Sep 10 14:30
schestowitz “Linux is a passing fad of the day” Sep 10 14:30
schestowitz SOmething along those lines… Gartner around 1999 Sep 10 14:30
schestowitz ASUS said it is “tied up with Microsoft” Sep 10 14:30
schestowitz See the URL above. Microsoft is pressuring them Sep 10 14:30
twitter http://mobile.slashdot.org/article…. Sep 10 14:31
Eruaran I’m not sure what Acer is up to really Sep 10 14:31
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twitter “We have shifted towards Linux because of Microsoft,” he said. “Microsoft has a lot of power and it is going to be difficult, but we will be working hard to develop the Linux market.” Sep 10 14:32
Eruaran I hope they’re telling the truth Sep 10 14:32
Eruaran Becuase the pressuire within our company not to promote Linux came from Gartner – through Acer Sep 10 14:33
Eruaran Acer was passing this on and not adding any caveats about Gartners ‘analysis’ Sep 10 14:34
schestowitz Eruaran: ASUS has a problem with Mcirosogft, not Linux Sep 10 14:34
Eruaran well… they could have picked a better distro Sep 10 14:35
schestowitz It’s because Microsoft has a problem with Linux. it’s being adopted on low-cost laptops, so Microspft pffers Windows for as little as $18 a piece. Sep 10 14:35
schestowitz Eruaran: they negotiated with Debian at one later point. Sep 10 14:35
schestowitz Xandros is also Microsoft’taited’ Sep 10 14:35
schestowitz *tainted Sep 10 14:35
schestowitz Either way, Gartner’s intervention is interesting in its own right. Sep 10 14:35
schestowitz Did the boss contact Gartner or did *they* approach the boxx? Sep 10 14:36
schestowitz *boss Sep 10 14:36
Eruaran We received this through our partnership with Acer Sep 10 14:36
Eruaran Market analysis so we could assess our position in the market Sep 10 14:37
schestowitz Oops/ Sep 10 14:37
schestowitz I mixed up ASUS and Acer in some places. Sep 10 14:37
Eruaran Most of it was useful information… kind of like rat poison is something like 99% harmless. Sep 10 14:37
schestowitz it’s worth writing about this later. Sep 10 14:38
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*Songjun slaps Songjun around a bit with a large trout Sep 10 14:39
Eruaran We can and do pre-install GNU/Linux on desktop PC’s for customers. Sep 10 14:39
Eruaran But its impossible to get a notebook without Vista. Sep 10 14:40
Songjun hi there Sep 10 14:40
Songjun is this the usual number of chatters in the channel? Sep 10 14:40
Eruaran You can get Vista, or XP, or Vista & XP. Sep 10 14:40
Eruaran The situation is ridiculous. Sep 10 14:41
schestowitz Hi, Songjun. Sep 10 14:41
Songjun hey schestowitz Sep 10 14:41
_Doug ot: Stephen Norris Capital Partners (“SNCP”) involved in ‘restructuring’ deal with SCO | Robert Kasten is on the board of Norris-Robbins | Robert Kasten is also a board member of the Alexis-de-Tocqueville | “The Alexis de Tocqueville Institution, who as you may recall admitted it gets funding from Microsoft, has put out a press release” Sep 10 14:41
Eruaran There’s a worm going around that installs itself on people’s USB keys. Sep 10 14:41
_Doug http://www.groklaw.net/article.php… Sep 10 14:41
schestowitz _Doug: where did you find this? Sep 10 14:41
schestowitz Oh Sep 10 14:41
Eruaran We remove this on a beautiful GNU/Linux system with a glorious looking KDE 4.1.1 desktop. Sep 10 14:41
Songjun i was just wondering just how severe the novell/microsoft deal has had on opensuse Sep 10 14:42
Songjun especially on the development side Sep 10 14:42
_Doug http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?s… Sep 10 14:42
schestowitz Eruaran: Microsoft has gone far to ensure Vista is forced upon people. Sep 10 14:42
Eruaran And when people ask ‘wont that system get the virus ?’ Sep 10 14:42
schestowitz That’s sad, but it’s not something to report about. Sep 10 14:42
Eruaran We say, ‘No, this is Linux’ Sep 10 14:42
_Doug Eruaran: Windows or Apple or Linux ‘virus’ ? – it’s so 1978 again — only it used to be floppies .. :) Sep 10 14:43
Eruaran Many average folks simply don’t comprehend that they can use a different operating system. Sep 10 14:43
schestowitz _Doug: I have something you probably want to see. Sep 10 14:43
schestowitz And inform GL about. Sep 10 14:43
_Doug OK, msg me privetly Sep 10 14:44
schestowitz See Carlyle Group here: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/08/2… Sep 10 14:44
schestowitz twitter found out some stuff about it. Sep 10 14:44
schestowitz Norris. Sep 10 14:44
Eruaran I find it so discouraging sometimes. Sep 10 14:44
schestowitz Songjun: opensuse shares the same code as most distros, so it’s not affected on an individual basis. Sep 10 14:45
Eruaran Feel like quitting the industry but I don’t know what else I’d do. Sep 10 14:45
schestowitz In other words, it’s almost identical to other distros, which don’t have the same burden (Microsoft/Novell) Sep 10 14:45
schestowitz BTW, benjamin, it’s [H]omer who set a ban overnight. I don’t know how to remove it properly. When I do, it’s being restored . Sep 10 14:45
schestowitz Eruaran: Microsoft is falling, but it’s gradual. Sep 10 14:46
Eruaran We’ve had operating systems that don’t have to reboot after updating files or installing software since Bill Gates was still in college. And yet people are still using this weak and miserable operating system. Sep 10 14:46
schestowitz They won’t last for long, but it’s the Apple crowd that might become an issue. Sep 10 14:46
schestowitz Well, gates had a lot of money and connection and no ethics at all. Sep 10 14:47
schestowitz As Intel demonstrates, it’s usually the bad  (corrupt) people that ‘win’ Sep 10 14:47
schestowitz Or as one band put it, “nice guys finish last”. Sep 10 14:47
MinceR 155559 < Songjun> i was just wondering just how severe the novell/microsoft deal has had on opensuse Sep 10 14:48
Eruaran I had a guy recently who claimed in front of me that if you visit a bunch of bad websites with Linux you’ll get viruses just like you do with Windows. I asked him how much money he was willing to place on that bet. He backed down when he saw I was serious. Sep 10 14:48
MinceR if benJIman is any indication, it has turned those people into microsoft shills too :> Sep 10 14:48
schestowitz Eruaran: RMS stayed in MIT because he “refused to live like this”. That is, according to him, being enslaved to binary Gods is something that he needed to fight. Sep 10 14:49
Eruaran *nod* Sep 10 14:51
Songjun schestowitz: hmm.. however i’m sure that with this deal, usership of the opensuse distro will start to fall.. and thus might affect the number of people who might want to contribute to opensuse Sep 10 14:51
schestowitz RMS did something useful with his life. He created a whole system (or helped in creating it) that everyone even in poor countries can use for free (also libre) Sep 10 14:51
Eruaran There are a few good universities here in Australia Sep 10 14:51
Eruaran RMIT, La Trobe Sep 10 14:52
schestowitz I’ve been tied to UoM even though I finished all my ‘real work’ like 3 years ago. Sep 10 14:52
Eruaran There is one university that is a running joke though Sep 10 14:52
Eruaran And that is Deakin University Sep 10 14:52
schestowitz I’ shocked that I’m still around to hang around here, use the clusters for massive experiments, etc. Sep 10 14:52
_Doug Eruaran: go into teaching, or start your own small company, it’s a lot more satisfying .. that beign micro-managed by a total fucking idiot ! Sep 10 14:53
Eruaran Otherwise known as M$-Deakin Sep 10 14:53
Songjun mincer : haha :P why, has he been promoting the wonders of microsoft? Sep 10 14:53
Songjun i’m still a little ignorant on this issue though Sep 10 14:53
schestowitz Microsoft creates ‘jobs’: virus cleaners. Sep 10 14:53
Songjun but to have a website dedicated to boycotting novell.. means its quite serious :P Sep 10 14:53
schestowitz All bow to ‘Makers of Jobs’ Sep 10 14:53
Songjun lol Sep 10 14:53
Eruaran It is satisfying though to get a customer to switch Sep 10 14:54
MinceR Songjun: he was mostly defending novell and their role in microsoft’s patent racket/FUD campaign. Sep 10 14:54
Eruaran And see that status quo broken Sep 10 14:54
Songjun mincer : hmm icic, did you guys use to contribute to the opensuse distro before this ? Sep 10 14:55
Eruaran I figure every single happy GNU/Linux user I have a part in creating… three of their friends will hear about it. Sep 10 14:55
MinceR i never did Sep 10 14:55
MinceR i never liked suse Sep 10 14:55
Songjun lol! Sep 10 14:56
Songjun icic Sep 10 14:56
MinceR it has always had a bad reputation and it was confirmed when a friend had me install it for him Sep 10 14:56
MinceR it has the suckiest installer i’ve ever seen, especially the netinstall part Sep 10 14:56
Songjun you know of any contributors who packed and left just cause ? Sep 10 14:56
MinceR and it ran some program that ruined keyboard input on x Sep 10 14:56
MinceR (my friend hunted that down eventually) Sep 10 14:56
Eruaran I always fel that Suse was an “almost there” distro, that always seemed promising but never seemed to be “finished”. Sep 10 14:57
schestowitz Songjun: I was a SUSE user on all my machines. Sep 10 14:57
schestowitz I helped SUSE users in forums. Sep 10 14:57
Eruaran I hated suse with kde4 Sep 10 14:57
Eruaran the way they changed some basic things Sep 10 14:58
Eruaran in ways that I know wont help the user at all Sep 10 14:58
Songjun schestowitz: hmm icic did you stop contributing after the novell/ms deal just cause? Sep 10 14:58
_Doug openSuSE was was idiosyncratic, to say the least Sep 10 14:58
Eruaran Like, “System Settings” in KDE4.x is not System Settings in Suse Sep 10 14:58
Eruaran I think thats plain stupid Sep 10 14:58
Songjun i know the mailing list archives are chock full of people ranting about it and saying they gave up Sep 10 14:59
_Doug I stick to a few bash scripts .. :) Sep 10 14:59
schestowitz Songjun: yes, days afterwards. Bruce Perens’ letter was the first to make some people, including myself, what it all meant. Sep 10 14:59
Songjun but i wonder how many actually did leave Sep 10 14:59
schestowitz I don’t think that matters. Sep 10 14:59
Eruaran One distro’s loss is another’s gain Sep 10 14:59
Songjun eruaran: true that Sep 10 15:00
schestowitz Ubuntu has gained a lot since. Sep 10 15:00
_Doug I do believe the GUI is overrated .. at lest the current one, menus and click boxed .. you *still* have to tel lthe computer what to do. Yea, I know this is computer heracy, so burn me at the stake .. Sep 10 15:00
Songjun oh when i mean ‘leave’, leave in the sense they decided to concentrate on other distros Sep 10 15:00
Eruaran I like to keep up with the whole semantic desktop thing Sep 10 15:00
Eruaran looks exciting to me Sep 10 15:01
Eruaran this is where free desktops can really pull ahead Sep 10 15:01
Eruaran I believe that if Microsoft ever does actually develop and release ‘WinFS’, it makes apps totally platform/filesystem dependant and it will drive developers away. Sep 10 15:03
Eruaran I like what the KDE team are doing Sep 10 15:03
Eruaran Its actually real rubber on the road stuff Sep 10 15:03
Eruaran Where apps aren’t made platform dependant Sep 10 15:04
schestowitz Seigo wrote about Nepumok the other day (spelling?) Sep 10 15:04
Eruaran yes I read it Sep 10 15:04
Eruaran I think its really important stuff Sep 10 15:07
Eruaran I think Microsoft has a serious problem with this – they are years behind and their whole approach (if it really was ever anything more than vaporware) seems unworkable Sep 10 15:08
MinceR WinFS has already died. Sep 10 15:09
twitter again Sep 10 15:10
schestowitz Windows is not modular. Sep 10 15:10
schestowitz They said in 2005 (ish) that they would make it modular but they never did. Sep 10 15:10
schestowitz It’s still vapourware: modularity. How long for? They’ll deliver another TurdOS and then  promise that the next one will excel. Sep 10 15:11
Eruaran I think they’re in real trouble this time Sep 10 15:12
schestowitz Midori is another abstract vapourware because they know 7 will suck (if it’s ever released in a shape of something different from SP). Sep 10 15:12
twitter Their vaporware model is remarkably modular.  Somehow, they manage to separate each release from the previous failure. Sep 10 15:12
schestowitz People already know that 7 is Viata+1 Sep 10 15:12
Eruaran the semantic desktop is becoming a reality, and they are not even in the ballpark Sep 10 15:12
schestowitz So they needed another fluffy idea flying in the air. Or maybe it was a leak. Doesn’t matter either way. Sep 10 15:12
schestowitz MS: h”In the face of strong competition, Evangelism’s focus may shift immediately to the next version of the same technology, however. Indeed, Phase 1 (Evangelism Starts) for version x+1 may start as soon as this Final Release of version X.” ttp://boycottnovell.com/wp-content/u ploads/2008/08/comes-3096.pdf Sep 10 15:13
twitter Didn’t BN cover a M$ email, where Paul Allen or some other M$ executive lamented Apple’s tremendous lead in search? Sep 10 15:13
schestowitz Yes Sep 10 15:14
schestowitz Hold on Sep 10 15:14
schestowitz It was Allchin though Sep 10 15:14
schestowitz http://boycottnovell.com/2008/06/… Sep 10 15:14
twitter That pretty much tells the story.  He said they had something like WinFS, except it worked and was fast. Sep 10 15:14
schestowitz it’s _Doug who sent me a pointer to it. Sep 10 15:15
Eruaran I think the increasing strength of free software is sooner or later going to hobble M$’s traditional strategy of promoting the next vaporware OS… becuase they have nothing concrete to offer… I know we Sep 10 15:15
Eruaran I know we’ve all seen something like this before but I think the gap is going to get much bigger Sep 10 15:15
Eruaran Propaganda will not be enough Sep 10 15:15
schestowitz Ethical gap too. Sep 10 15:15
schestowitz They play dirtier Sep 10 15:16
schestowitz I have 2 more posts coming Sep 10 15:16
Eruaran A real semantic desktop looks like becoming a reality next year – and devs seem excited enough about it to start using it quickly – And we know Microsoft has nothing like this to offer… only Vista+1 RSI Edition (multi-touch). Sep 10 15:18
Eruaran I think describing it doesn’t do justice to the possibilities for the end user experience Sep 10 15:19
Eruaran I think being able to move and rename a file and have your Amarok playlist still play without saying it cant find the file is only the tip of a very large iceberg Sep 10 15:20
Eruaran And Microsoft is the Titanic Sep 10 15:20
Eruaran Just my thoughts… I could be jumping the gun… but I have a “feeling” about this Sep 10 15:21
schestowitz Microsoft is a marketing company Sep 10 15:26
schestowitz KDE is a development community Sep 10 15:26
schestowitz I recently came to realise that the Asay/Microsoft-imposed FUD about it being dependent on corporations is nonsense. Sep 10 15:27
schestowitz KDE’s  commits come from volunteers about 70% of the time Sep 10 15:27
Eruaran yes Sep 10 15:27
schestowitz Yet Asay tries to give me the OSBC (Microsoft-funded) pitch about FOSS being all about money Sep 10 15:28
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schestowitz http://boycottnovell.com/2008/03/08/… Sep 10 15:28
_Doug any news on the LSE crash that wasn’t related to heavy trading, software, hardware, connectivity or .net ? Sep 10 15:39
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schestowitz Yes Sep 10 15:40
schestowitz See GL Sep 10 15:40
neighborlee hmm good find indeed..this should leave no room for guesswork as to whether or not mono is a ‘risk’ rofl Sep 10 15:41
schestowitz O’Brien laughs at you here: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/09/10/ir… Sep 10 15:41
_Doug Large Hadron Collider Powers Up: no change here .. except everyone turned into a SMURF .. :) Sep 10 15:43
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_Doug schestoman: Where is GL ? Sep 10 15:44
_Doug Where in GL ? Sep 10 15:44
schestowitz Groklaw cited SJVN Sep 10 15:44
schestowitz I typed it with one finger, so kept it short. Sep 10 15:44
schestowitz I’m done eating now. Sep 10 15:44
schestowitz SJVN pointed a finger at Accenture and Microsoft. Sep 10 15:45
_Doug SJUN ? Sep 10 15:45
schestowitz Let me find it. Sep 10 15:48
Eruaran bbl Sep 10 15:49
*Eruaran has quit (” HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Now with extra fish!”) Sep 10 15:49
schestowitz http://blogs.computerworld.com/london_st… Sep 10 15:50
neighborlee hey peeps..do we know that seth stilll maintains his original positions from 2004, that he posted on his website ? Sep 10 15:51
neighborlee &/or has anyone talked to him recently about any oif this blah blah … Sep 10 15:52
neighborlee I wonder if he is still part of gnome Sep 10 15:52
schestowitz neighborlee: do people raise that Q? Sep 10 15:52
neighborlee no Sep 10 15:56
neighborlee I have raised it just how Sep 10 15:56
neighborlee ^>now Sep 10 15:57
neighborlee just something I am curious about is all Sep 10 15:57
schestowitz Googled his name yet? Sep 10 15:57
neighborlee no I thoguht you might know offhand since you have done so many studies and commentaries,,no biggie yes I can look. Sep 10 15:57
_Doug ot: “First, TradElec runs on more than a 100 HP ProLiant servers in several locations in London. These servers are running Windows Server 2003″ Sep 10 15:59
_Doug “On top of this runs the TradElec software itself. This is a custom set of C# and .NET programs, which was created by Microsoft and Accenture .. Its back-end databases, believe it or not, run on Microsoft SQL Server 2000. The goal was to maintain sub-ten millisecond response times. In short, it’s meant to be a real-time system” Sep 10 15:59
schestowitz “Microsoft and” Sep 10 15:59
_Doug Were any of those ‘agile’ software companies involved in the NHS disaster ? Sep 10 16:00
schestowitz Microsoft is still torturing Yahoo: Maritz and Tucci’s Microsoft Slog Against VMware Sep 10 16:01
schestowitz http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/ne… Sep 10 16:01
schestowitz Microsoft uses Shills here (fact): http://boycottnovell.com/2008/08/15… Sep 10 16:01
schestowitz neighborlee:  if you find the answer, please report back. It’s interesting. Sep 10 16:03
neighborlee ok Sep 10 16:04
_Doug ot: O2Micro patent battery charging .. Sep 10 16:08
_Doug http://www.tradingmarkets.com/.site/ne… Sep 10 16:08
_Doug I remember designing such circuits when I used to mess around with kits .. if only I had the foresight to patent it. Sep 10 16:08
schestowitz I’ll be impressed when they patent this: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7604293.stm Sep 10 16:09
_Doug I could go after O2Micro for a percentage .. :) Sep 10 16:09
schestowitz New: http://www.heise.de/english/newsticker/… Sep 10 16:10
_Doug I referenced the Collider in an earlier msg .. that I haven’t sent yet .. time distortion ? Sep 10 16:10
neighborlee ha yes I saw that on cnn this am ;) Sep 10 16:10
_Doug “Independent current and voltage sensing for each battery enables parallel charging of batteries at different charging currents” Sep 10 16:13
_Doug Well fucking DOH .. steering diodes and a current source .. any tech mag going back twenty years would have such circuitry Sep 10 16:13
_Doug google ‘constant current source’ ‘steering diode’ Sep 10 16:14
schestowitz _Doug: you drive the apologists mad: It demonstrates a shoddy Microsoft system and that Get the Facts campaign is flase advertising after those two collapses. Sep 10 16:14
_Doug http://www.freepatentsonline.com/7414381.html Sep 10 16:14
_Doug You mean LSE + NHS Sep 10 16:15
_Doug I would have done it different .. Sep 10 16:15
_Doug “High-side current-sensing smart battery charger” fucking doh a PNP power transister + a constant current source + a current/voltage sensor .. kiddie stuff … Sep 10 16:17
_Doug I hereby patent an asymetrical mechanical device for removing the tops of cylindrical food containers Sep 10 16:18
_Doug The deluxe version is ambidextrious .. :0 Sep 10 16:19
schestowitz File away. Sep 10 16:19
_Doug I designed sound to light units (at least on paper) only mine didn’t allow the power rail onto the audio ground rail, used opto-coupling ..# Sep 10 16:20
_Doug So, no hum on the audio .. or danger of getting electrocuted .. Sep 10 16:21
_Doug I got hold of a bunch of Marconi manuals, most of these circuits were known even then, yea Marconi .. Sep 10 16:22
_Doug An analog Radar unit from WW2, used active noise cancelation on the power rail .. Sep 10 16:22
_Doug Anti-rain circuit, the display could scroll with the speed of the ship, so you got a trace on screen .. Sep 10 16:23
_Doug I designed and build my own NiCAD charger .. Sep 10 16:24
_Doug “System and method for controlling excessive charging-current in a battery power system” Sep 10 16:25
twitter Had a good laugh at O’Brain, but have to power down now.  See you later. Sep 10 16:25
schestowitz Can Marconi be resurrected as a paten troll maybe? Sep 10 16:25
schestowitz Like Avistar’s attempts? Sep 10 16:26
_Doug A timer + a distarge circuit + a timed charging circuit .. Sep 10 16:26
schestowitz twitter: good luck. Sep 10 16:26
neighborlee I think this experiment might be futile at this stage of our technical development , I mean we speculate on dark matter like its a hard fast rule and then proclaim we know enough about the intracacies of the universe and how they all interrelate, to know on any level what happened moments about the ‘big bang’ LOL..one day I suspect we’ll know a lot more, but imho atm its in its infancy stages, if that ;) Sep 10 16:26
_Doug time for a break .. my arse is gettig numb … Sep 10 16:26
schestowitz neighborlee: you don’t believe in evolution, I suppose. Sep 10 16:27
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neighborlee schestowitz, I do Sep 10 16:27
schestowitz _Doug: you should patent something on it. Sep 10 16:27
schestowitz neighborlee: ah, okay. Sep 10 16:27
neighborlee schestowitz, but no one knows HOW it happened ;) Sep 10 16:27
neighborlee so pft Sep 10 16:27
schestowitz I still fail to see the use of such large experiments. Sep 10 16:27
neighborlee thats my point yes Sep 10 16:27
schestowitz It’s to fulfill curiosity and to advance just a bit. Sep 10 16:28
neighborlee yes Sep 10 16:28
schestowitz But it’s so much work and the world has other issues like global warming and hunger, not fantasies about other planets, even if colonies can be built there (big f* deal( Sep 10 16:28
neighborlee well its imo all related anyway…we need to u nderstand our universe , and our planet of couse obviously, as if we dont well we might find our species starting over from scratch because whether or not people know about it or not, there are huge threats out there , which if occured would see nuclear bombs pale in comparison ;) Sep 10 16:33
neighborlee so yeah, we need to colonize space etc, else we could easily go extinct LOL Sep 10 16:33
neighborlee blink of an eye ;) Sep 10 16:33
schestowitz Oh no: http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/sho… Sep 10 16:34
schestowitz That’s like Microsoft joining the Linux Foundation Sep 10 16:34
schestowitz Bunch of FUDsters. Is this a joke? It was founded by a Microsoft lad. Sep 10 16:34
_Doug You mean like a rubber beach ring my old boss used to sit on .. :) Sep 10 16:42
schestowitz Better than your boss working on the toilet seat, then coming to use your keyboard Sep 10 16:42
_Doug Haemoroid prevention device .. :) Sep 10 16:43
_Doug she used to sit on it in her office .. Sep 10 16:43
_Doug was a big girl .. looked like a Hippo in a dress .. Sep 10 16:43
_Doug BlackDuck .. ? Sep 10 16:44
_Doug embrace and pollute .. Sep 10 16:44
_Doug “Black Duck provides solutions for software development teams and legal counsel to manage the hybrid software development process” Sep 10 16:45
schestowitz VMware with Martitz is already there.. and Novell Sep 10 16:45
schestowitz The Linux Foundation thing is becoming as ‘diluted’ as OSI, which already has Microsoft in it. Sep 10 16:45
_Doug If you went totaly GPL, then you wouldn’t need ‘corporate counsels or outside law firms” Sep 10 16:46
schestowitz People in the Linux Foundation don’t even /use/ GNU/Linux. Sep 10 16:46
schestowitz It’s confirmed now. No more NovellBallnux from Lenovo: http://practical-tech.com/infrastructure/le… Sep 10 16:48
schestowitz More business for Dellbuntu hopefully. Sep 10 16:49
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_Doug What about the IBM “Microsoft-free” desktops Sep 10 16:52
_Doug http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS8440296446.html Sep 10 16:53
_Doug Why don’t a major OEM buy up a Linux distro and start selling a high-end multimedia machine and a basic Internet-ready one .. they would fly off the shelves .. Sep 10 16:54
_Doug They would of course have to be availabe in the high-street computer shop .. Sep 10 16:54
_Doug The Del+Ubuntu shop .. like the Apple shop .. sales and support .. if you need to take it back .. Sep 10 16:55
_Doug A subscription service for software + movies + tv .. Sep 10 16:56
schestowitz I remembered about IBM Sep 10 16:56
_Doug What happened to Linspire + Wallmart ? Sep 10 16:56
schestowitz Wrote about it this morning in fact: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/09/10/len… Sep 10 16:56
schestowitz Linspire is no more. Sep 10 16:56
schestowitz Wal-mart is in any case very close to Microsoft (executive shuffles and monopolies that think alike) Sep 10 16:57
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_Doug Where can I buy one of these ? Sep 10 16:58
_Doug http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcNwnANrCpw Sep 10 16:58
schestowitz http://www.zdnetasia.com/news/communic… Opera joins Symbian Foundation Sep 10 16:59
MinceR :( Sep 10 16:59
MinceR opera is getting into bad company Sep 10 16:59
schestowitz I can check for you, _Doug. Sep 10 16:59
schestowitz Dragon something sells it… Sep 10 17:00
schestowitz Or just do what BillG and SwteatyB do: http://www.zdnetasia.com/news/communicat… Sep 10 17:00
schestowitz Oops. This one: http://boycottnovell.com/comes-vs-… Sep 10 17:00
schestowitz Funny typo on “Sweaty” Sep 10 17:01
schestowitz http://antitrust.slated.org/www.iowacon… Sep 10 17:01
_Doug that site seems to be dissapeared .. Sep 10 17:04
schestowitz Which one? The cyberjacked one? Sep 10 17:05
_Doug http://antitrust.slated.org/ ? Sep 10 17:05
_Doug no wrong link .. Sep 10 17:06
schestowitz it’s OCRed… some of it, I think. Sep 10 17:07
schestowitz The text above is 25-pages long. You extracted just a paragraph. Lots of crime to skim through… Sep 10 17:08
_Doug The one about dumpster diving .. Sep 10 17:09
schestowitz Yeah, some guy got it. Sep 10 17:09
schestowitz It was once posted to USENET Sep 10 17:09
schestowitz Not anymore though. Microsoft tried to hide all that s* Sep 10 17:10
schestowitz Let me find it. Quiet settlement, just like Caldera… following by destruction. Sep 10 17:10
schestowitz I tried to contact Conlin but no answer. Sep 10 17:10
_Doug PX06262.pdf seems to be dissapeared .. Sep 10 17:10
schestowitz I asked for copies of the text or validation, IIRC. They must have gagged her agency as ‘part of the settlement’. Kind of  like the 3 monkeys. Sep 10 17:10
schestowitz No, it’s there. I’ve just opened iy. Sep 10 17:11
schestowitz *it Sep 10 17:11
schestowitz Grouchy’s archives is dropping some though. Sep 10 17:11
_Doug nop, I mean the original of bill goes dumpster diving .. the advert Sep 10 17:11
schestowitz I can’t recall which one, but one of the prominent mirrors seems to have given up on a few and I don’t know why. Worth asking in GL Sep 10 17:11
schestowitz Where was it? Sep 10 17:11
schestowitz YouTube? Sep 10 17:12
schestowitz http://www.roxanneconlinlaw.com/CM/Cu… Sep 10 17:12
_Doug “A glimse, to inspire your confidence in senior management, about how we Sep 10 17:12
_Doug develop stratagy” Sep 10 17:12
schestowitz http://www.iowamicrosoftcase.com/ Sep 10 17:13
_Doug is that text in PX06262.pdf ? Sep 10 17:13
schestowitz Nothing about what actually happened and what Conlin showed (that Microsoft hid) Sep 10 17:13
schestowitz http://www.iowamicrosoftcase.com/pdfs/… Sep 10 17:14
schestowitz So Conclin’s office uses Microsoft server and they only give damages for _MICROSOFT SOFTWARE_. How incompetent is *that*? Microsoft gives its software for free /already/ just so that people get locked in with their data Sep 10 17:14
schestowitz Ask her < http://www.roxanneconlinlaw.com/CM… > why we can’t see Microsoft’s reasons for settlement anymore. Sep 10 17:16
_Doug I found it, it’s on page 10 (that’s numbered from AcroReader and not the internal numbering) .. :) Sep 10 17:19
schestowitz http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrwnJDQy0ic ( Steve Ballmer feat. Bill Gates – Da da da ) Sep 10 17:20
_Doug That’s the whole point of a settlement, so has you don’t have to show your cards .. Sep 10 17:20
schestowitz “A lengthy anecdote about accounting irregularities exposed by whistleblower Charles Pancerzewski concludes weakly, “Microsoft paid over $4 million to make Pancerzewski go away, an amount that presumably wouldn’t be paid out without the Office of the President, the trio to which Ballmer belonged, signing off on it.” Sep 10 17:20
schestowitz From http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business… about Microsoft fraud allegations Sep 10 17:21
_Doug 500: internel server error: can’t browse the directories .. :( Sep 10 17:21
_Doug http://antitrust.slated.org/www.iowaconsumerca… Sep 10 17:21
schestowitz The Seattle Press is of course trying to dismiss it. Are they funded by Microsoft directly or just indirectly? Sep 10 17:21
_Doug Not necessarly, but once commercial interests are involved, the players are reluctant to rock-the-boat, risk lose advertising etc .. Sep 10 17:25
_Doug How many business do business with Microsoft, in a non-software area ? Sep 10 17:26
schestowitz Microsoft coverage is the P-I’s bread and butter. Sep 10 17:28
schestowitz But that too is a general issue in the press. you can’t expect fair coverage when journos write for their next paycheck. Gates and Microsoft both funnel money into media companies. Sep 10 17:28
_Doug pt: Obama “You know you can put lipstick on a pig, but it’s still a pig.” Sep 10 17:31
_Doug He said that last year in relation to a comment by Sen. Hillary Clinton Sep 10 17:32
_Doug Se he didn’t mean Palin, he meant Hill . .:) Sep 10 17:33
_Doug “That’s not change. That’s just calling something the same thing something different. You know you can put lipstick on a pig, but it’s still a pig. You know you can wrap an old fish in a piece of paper called change, it’s still going to stink after eight years. We’ve had enough of the same old thing.” Video Sep 10 17:34
_Doug Actually, ‘fish’ is a pejorative in the Saphic community .. so I’ve been told .. :) Sep 10 17:35
_Doug That’s even worse .. :) Sep 10 17:35
_Doug “You know the difference between a hockey mom and a pit bull? Lipstick.” Sep 10 17:36
_Doug YOu know,she reminds me of Lisa Simpson when she grows up .. Sep 10 17:37
_Doug Or www.shelley the Republican http://www.shelleytherepublican.com/ Sep 10 17:37
_Doug Only Shelly is tryign to be funny … Sep 10 17:38
schestowitz Is it a Shelley? Sep 10 17:38
schestowitz Does the author had a real identity? Sep 10 17:39
_Doug Probably a buch of script writers .. it’s so good .. almost fools you … Sep 10 17:39
_Doug I watch some of Palin on YOutube and it could almost pas muster on shellythe.. Sep 10 17:40
_Doug “I think God fearing Republicans will understand me when I say that one of the wonderful things about Alaska is that it is so pure and white” Sep 10 17:41
_Doug That’s from Shelly .. not Palin .. :) Sep 10 17:41
schestowitz Alaska? Home of recent corruption? Sep 10 17:42
schestowitz Not so white: http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&… Sep 10 17:42
schestowitz Remember: biggest crooks wear suits, but they are smart/rich enough to sneak their way out of justice. Sep 10 17:43
_Doug http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QG1vPYbRB7k&… Sep 10 17:44
*schestowitz looks Sep 10 17:44
schestowitz [ducks /] A nation of ~300 million and they can’t find a person better? Sep 10 17:46
schestowitz McCain too is a toy to corporations Sep 10 17:46
schestowitz Just like Stevens. Sep 10 17:46
schestowitz It seems as though the biggest *ahem* crooks  are best at buying their way into positions of power with the help of megacorps that they then serve. No wonder Lessig is furious. Sep 10 17:47
_Doug OK: get back on topic .. Sep 10 17:47
schestowitz Byfield and the guy I used to write to sort of troll Slashdot now. Sep 10 17:48
schestowitz It’s annoying to watch it, but I won’t open that box Sep 10 17:48
schestowitz There should be a new word for it: “headline-trolling” (see if you can spot it in /.) Sep 10 17:48
_Doug PM: Sep 10 17:49
schestowitz I wrote about it here: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/08/31/… Sep 10 17:49
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*rmarquis (n=rmarquis@adsl-84-226-154-72.adslplus.ch) has joined #boycottnovell Sep 10 18:04
neighborlee schestowitz, well we’ll seee, I emailed seth , so if I get a reply Ill make sure to let you know. Sep 10 18:08
schestowitz Where’s he now? Do you know..? Sep 10 18:09
neighborlee nope Sep 10 18:12
neighborlee I checked and ‘seth’ isn’t in #gnome atm anyway Sep 10 18:13
neighborlee could be any nick of course lol Sep 10 18:13
*aymak (n=chatzill@h226.19.88.75.static.ip.windstream.net) has joined #boycottnovell Sep 10 18:22
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schestowitz http://www.cafuego.net/2008/09/09/l… Sep 10 18:31
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*rmarquis has quit (“leaving”) Sep 10 18:48
*trmanco (n=trmanco@bl7-12-56.dsl.telepac.pt) has joined #boycottnovell Sep 10 19:12
trmanco meh Sep 10 19:44
schestowitz Hey there. Sep 10 19:44
trmanco COLA is full of trolls Sep 10 19:44
trmanco Hi Sep 10 19:44
schestowitz Yes, it’s better to filter/skip their posts. I’m posting there at the moment. Sep 10 19:45
schestowitz There’s something urgent worth writing about: http://www.cafuego.net/2008/09/09/linux… http://brendanscott.wordpress.com/2008/09/1… Sep 10 19:45
trmanco cool Sep 10 19:48
trmanco well looks like microsoft fixed a a couple of flaws in their “OS’s” Sep 10 19:50
schestowitz 8? Sep 10 19:51
trmanco how much flaws do they still have to fix ? Sep 10 19:51
trmanco yeah 8 Sep 10 19:51
schestowitz I’m going to do an ‘eye on MS” post as well. Sep 10 19:51
schestowitz It has some bit on security in it. Sep 10 19:51
*moparx (n=moparx@pdpc/supporter/base/moparx) has joined #boycottnovell Sep 10 19:51
trmanco yes Sep 10 19:52
trmanco is Linonut a troll or a advocate? Sep 10 19:53
trmanco by the name I would say he is a troll… Sep 10 19:53
*_Doug (n=ISA4567@ has joined #boycottnovell Sep 10 19:54
schestowitz Linonut is one of the good guys. He’s just joking sometimes. Sep 10 19:55
schestowitz We have a list of the trolls. Sep 10 19:55
trmanco yes that blog on blogger Sep 10 19:56
schestowitz http://colatrolls.blogspot.com/ Sep 10 19:56
trmanco I’ve seen it already,but are they all there? Sep 10 19:56
schestowitz Some change their names. Sep 10 19:56
schestowitz I don’t know who runs the blog. Sep 10 19:56
trmanco ok Sep 10 19:57
schestowitz The trolls have had a bit of a recess. It was worse some months ago. Sep 10 19:58
schestowitz Some are/were Microsoft employees. Sep 10 19:58
schestowitz Also see: http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.os2.advoc… Sep 10 19:59
*Tallken (n=f2f93bf5@ has joined #boycottnovell Sep 10 20:09
_Doug hi tallken … Sep 10 20:10
Tallken hi _Doug Sep 10 20:11
_Doug what distro do you use ? Sep 10 20:11
Tallken wth? Sep 10 20:13
Tallken openSuSE? :P Sep 10 20:13
_Doug Ahh .. OK … Sep 10 20:14
Tallken lol was just curious to check your reaction Sep 10 20:14
Tallken Kubuntu, actually Sep 10 20:14
Tallken :P Sep 10 20:14
_Doug Xfce or Fluxbox or Bash ? Sep 10 20:14
Tallken KDE? Sep 10 20:14
_Doug I find less is more .. Sep 10 20:15
_Doug Too many widgets on screen, distract and draw your attention away .. Sep 10 20:15
schestowitz _Doug: you can hide the widgets Sep 10 20:15
schestowitz Set up keyboard accelerators. Sep 10 20:16
schestowitz Mouse gestures even. But for each its own. For everyone else there’s masterc… errr. emacs. Sep 10 20:16
_Doug I find, unless I have a highspec machine, that all the background stuff slows down the response .. I recall long ago, switching screens was almost instantanious Sep 10 20:20
_Doug I don’t need a widget popping up asking me if I want to open the USB device in image-vieweer – if I did I would be doing it .. Sep 10 20:21
_Doug Do you want to X, Y, Z .. no .. thanks for nagging me .. now sod off and stop blocking the text I’m reading … :) Sep 10 20:22
schestowitz Sounds like you has an experience with ClippiX. Sep 10 20:22
_Doug What ever, the app nagging me to do stuff isn’t helping .. Sep 10 20:23
_Doug I usually set mine up to look like the Apple .. :) Sep 10 20:25
_Doug I also have a customized XP desktop for the refugees from WindowsLand that come in here .. Sep 10 20:26
_Doug It’s amazing watching the expression on their faces when you tell them they’ve been using Linux … Sep 10 20:26
_Doug It’s just like Windows !!! Sep 10 20:26
_Doug gtg .. Sep 10 20:27
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schestowitz Tallken: it’s posted now:  http://boycottnovell.com/2008/09/10/failures-… Sep 10 21:47
Tallken schestowitz: weird, didn’t expect NBC to go back to flash Sep 10 21:50
Tallken not that I am complaining :D Sep 10 21:50
schestowitz Me neither. Sep 10 21:50
Tallken Hum, greater user base Sep 10 21:52
Tallken hum, I wonder why Sep 10 21:52
Tallken I could consider installing silverlight Sep 10 21:52
Tallken if there was a Linux version Sep 10 21:52
Tallken jackasses :@ Sep 10 21:52
Tallken I did install in Windows out of curiosity Sep 10 21:53
Tallken clearly I was too curious Sep 10 21:53
schestowitz No, they want to deprive GNU/Linux and then point at Miguel&Novell Sep 10 21:53
Tallken I should deinstall it soon Sep 10 21:53
schestowitz That’s the ‘beauty’ of it. Sep 10 21:53
schestowitz They disserve Linux but use Novell as their excuse… also to the EU. Sep 10 21:53
Tallken ya Sep 10 21:53
schestowitz No hypervisor support? No, no… they work with Linux…. NOVELL Linux. Sep 10 21:53
Tallken Novell isn’t doing their part lol Sep 10 21:53
schestowitz Only that which passes royalties to Microsoft. Sep 10 21:53
Tallken the usual Sep 10 21:54
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  1. Chris said,

    September 11, 2008 at 7:37 am


    IMHO it is pretty funny that [H]omer banned benjiman (~ 9:45) cause of trolling although he did nothing else then repeatedly pointing out where you zealots were wrong.

    So, besides showing what a tard [H]omer is, it proves once more that the real intention of this site or its associated irc channel is not really “Exploring the reality behind exclusionary deals with Microsoft” but more like “Spreading FUD about anything we don’t like and ignoring & silencing everone & everything who or which doesn’t agree with us”.

    You guys are just laughable!

    PS: @Roy: If you really want to unban him but are unable to do so: Why don’t you kick [H]omers ass then and let him undo what he did?

  2. Roy Schestowitz said,

    September 11, 2008 at 8:26 am


    Benjamin is back.

  3. Chris said,

    September 11, 2008 at 9:07 am


    That’s not the point since benjiman is still banned …

  4. Baby In The Bath Water said,

    September 11, 2008 at 9:09 am


    This also isn’t the first time [H]omer has banned people who you admit should not have been banned. E.g. CJ.

    Note: this comment was posted from Novell’s headquarters.

  5. Roy Schestowitz said,

    September 11, 2008 at 9:14 am


    I’m no IRC expert. I removed both bans after [H]omer had set them, but the one on Benjamin was restored as soon he entered (maybe there’s also a kicklist). I used to struggle with the commands, but now I try the graphical front end in XChat. I can’t find a kicklist under the menu.

  6. Chris said,

    September 11, 2008 at 9:31 am


    I noticed this. Which is why I suggested that you kick [H]omers ass to get him to fix what he screwed up and also to get him to understand that he shouldn’t ban people for the mere reason that they disagree with him and that disagreeing whith him is not automatically trolling.

    If he is unable to control himself I suggest you just remove his op privileges.

  7. Chris said,

    September 11, 2008 at 9:33 am


    PS: Just to make this clear: I noticed this not as in “I know that you aren’t an IRC expert” but as in “I saw that you tried”.

  8. Baby In The Bath Water said,

    September 11, 2008 at 9:38 am


    [H]omer probably rigged the chanserv bot to restore the ban, so you’ll need to unregister the ban on the bot.

    /msg chanserv help

    That might get you the necessary info, or at least hopefully point you in the right direction.

    Hope that helps.

    Note: this comment was posted from Novell’s headquarters.

  9. Roy Schestowitz said,

    September 11, 2008 at 9:43 am


    I hear what you say, Chris. The problem is that [H]omer I can typically trust (known him on the Net for years) *and* he’s also permanently on-line. I can’t have one mod/op because I’m away some of the time. I’ll talk to him.

  10. ml2mst said,

    September 12, 2008 at 1:28 am


    Disgusting, their just trying to set you up against [H]omer, who is a cool dude, in contrast to those Microvell spies. They are not any better than the scum that haunts COLA.


  11. Roy Schestowitz said,

    September 12, 2008 at 1:47 am


    Yes, I know. They also try to steal op and ruin the channel. Can’t trust anybody…

  12. Chris said,

    September 12, 2008 at 7:14 am


    LMAO – so you call it “disgusting” if one requests a change in [H]omer’s attitude so he wont ban people for the mere fact of disagreeing with you zealots and pointing out when you, once again, are wrong?

    But hey, of course they need to be silenced since they just are “Microvell spies” who obviously can’t be right since they don’t agree with your own little world …

    I guess there is nothing to add since it is pretty self explanatory …

    It will never cease to amaze me under which rocks or probably more in which parents basements you find those guys …

  13. Baby In The Bath Water said,

    September 12, 2008 at 10:29 am


    @Roy: I don’t seem to recall asking for ops nor do I recall Chris or anyone else who disagrees with you asking for ops (or even trying to steal it – how is it even possible to ‘steal’ ops on an irc network that uses chanserv?)

    Note: this comment was posted from Novell’s headquarters.

  14. Roy Schestowitz said,

    September 12, 2008 at 10:34 am


    I received some information in private.

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