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09.23.08

IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: September 22nd, 2008 – Part 1

Posted in IRC Logs at 2:53 am by Dr. Roy Schestowitz

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Enter the IRC channel now

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twitter Groking the State of Sugar and OLPC  http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?sto… Sep 22 02:08
twitter ” It is also not clear to me that the lack of XP is holding up laptop sales. The evidence is at best ambiguous. For example, Intel, which offers XP on its Classmate PC, had sold an order of magnitude *fewer* machines than OLPC, with a GNU/Linux-only offering.” Sep 22 02:08
twitter –  Walter Bender Sep 22 02:08
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pombat42 The OLPC failure boils down to mismangement..No matter where you look that is the topic that comes up over and over again. Sep 22 02:38
twitter Here’s a funny story about the RIAA and selling out your lyrics.  http://blog.wired.com/music/2008/09/pro… Sep 22 02:46
pombat42 The riaa is simply trying to compensate for the fact that current music sucks and thus sales are down. As an example try and find an album like Rumours or Carol King where 10 out of 10 songs on the disk are hits…. Sep 22 03:31
pombat42 Saturday Noght Fever is another one…Beatles albums in general are more examples. Chicago is another example. Blood Sweat and Tears is another Sep 22 03:32
pombat42 Hell, even the Partridge Family does better than todays music… They only made 3 or 4 albums I think…Each one, and just about every song a hit. Sep 22 03:33
pombat42 Of course th PF had ther finest studio talent behind them. Hal Blaine and the crew were the best…… Sep 22 03:34
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kentma mornin’ all Sep 22 06:13
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schestowitz http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=… “A quick look at the analysis shows that using any system other than Sep 22 07:41
schestowitz Windows would probably have invented the problem” Sep 22 07:41
schestowitz “So two mistakes were being made, one of which was using Windows in a production environment,” says the guy who sent me this. Sep 22 07:43
kentma did you mean “avoided”? Sep 22 07:44
schestowitz I think so. Someone sent this to me. It reminds me of the MSI and that ‘crack incident.’ Let me find it… Sep 22 07:45
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schestowitz Coulnd’t find it. Sep 22 08:05
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schestowitz http://www.newmobilecomputing.com/story/20306/Micr… “Microsoft and Novell jointly announced…” Sep 22 08:58
kentma I think that we can expect to see much much more of this. Sep 22 09:06
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schestowitz Check out the latest post from Rex (at the bottom): http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.advoc… Sep 22 09:09
schestowitz tessier_: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/businesstechnolo… ( Airplane-leasing company borrows $6.5B ) Sep 22 09:21
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schestowitz One of the many causes for harming the economy: http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/2d6e4456-883f-11d… (Ichan tries to set market rules) Sep 22 09:31
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*[H]omer is away: sleep beer sleep beer sleep Sep 22 09:44
*MinceR wonders what a “beer sleep” is like Sep 22 10:07
MinceR also, public away is evil. Sep 22 10:08
schestowitz What do you mean by public money? Sep 22 10:08
*MinceR sees no “public money” Sep 22 10:14
schestowitz Oops. I misread. Sep 22 10:15
schestowitz This one is interesting: http://patentlibrarian.blogspot.com/20… Sep 22 10:26
schestowitz “We don’t usually think of bankers as inventors, but a change in the interpretation of U.S. patent law in the late 1990s (See State Street Bank & Trust Co. v. Signature Financial Group, Inc.) that allowed the patenting of so-called business methods inspired firms to apply for patents on everything from methods of predicting the value of mortgages to picking stock market winners and losers. Will we see fewer such patents in the futu Sep 22 10:26
schestowitz re? Probably, since both the government and surviving firms will be much less interested in risky innovation.” Sep 22 10:26
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jose http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/_ylt=AucpYAsI29MY1p1…   ms will buyback more shares. It seems they will give all their money to shareholders and then go into net debt. It’s about time since this is a way to pull in even more money from society into their shareholders. Sep 22 13:34
schestowitz Hey there. Sep 22 13:38
schestowitz jose: did you see the latest post on the buybacks? Sep 22 13:39
jose am reading it right now Sep 22 13:39
schestowitz How timely! Sep 22 13:39
schestowitz Let me modify the post. Sep 22 13:39
jose note that yahoo links go dead after a few short weeks. see if you can google for similar quotes from that story but from another source Sep 22 13:41
schestowitz Yes, I know. Sep 22 13:45
schestowitz I’m posting about it at the moment. Sep 22 13:45
schestowitz Associated Press cannot be quoted. I hate them. Everyone in the blog-o-sphere does. Sep 22 13:45
schestowitz http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=2008062… Sep 22 13:46
trmanco http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnome-doc-list/2… Sep 22 13:57
trmanco My plans for next release include: Sep 22 13:58
trmanco * Full Windows/Mac support Sep 22 13:58
schestowitz wait until Jose sees that. Sep 22 13:58
jose it’s not my time! Sep 22 13:59
schestowitz Novell’s budget. Sep 22 13:59
jose roy, don’t give AP free publicity.. good Sep 22 13:59
schestowitz Well, I gave a link. Sep 22 13:59
schestowitz http://boycottnovell.com/2008/09/22/micr… Sep 22 13:59
jose the good it brings bn overcomes the good it brings AP.. i see (lol) Sep 22 14:00
schestowitz It’s funny how Microsoft, ushered by the ‘press’, has been playing it like “it’s all cool” while over the years its savings diminished. Sep 22 14:00
schestowitz It’s ‘just’ debt… nothing to see here, move along. Sep 22 14:00
jose i think it makes financial sense for them and for their stockholders. debt costs now will probably even go down.. and they can invest in derivatives related to the same commercial paper they will put out.. Sep 22 14:02
jose ..that gives opportunities to make leveraged money (derivs) based on something they fundamentally control and that is not yet very regulated.. or so that is all what it appears to me Sep 22 14:02
schestowitz Nonetheless, it exposed a deficit. Sep 22 14:03
schestowitz That it’s a smart thing to do I have no doubt, but the legend of infinite wealth is easily disputed. The real cash was sunk into some executives’ bank accounts. Sep 22 14:04
jose overall, i would say that it does show a weaker position for microsoft.. we’ll see. Surely, they are funneling money out to shareholders faster than you post Sep 22 14:05
jose that it does show –> that it definitely shows   ..grows to be down.. though wallstreet knew this Sep 22 14:06
jose grows –> growth Sep 22 14:06
schestowitz They published a PR earlier. Sep 22 14:14
schestowitz It was a press release announcing a Webcast date for their next report on Oct. 23rd. Sep 22 14:15
schestowitz They missed expectations and sank in April and August. Sep 22 14:15
zoobab do you have a complete copy of the video where Ballmer asks RH to pay them some money? Sep 22 14:19
schestowitz Yes. Hold on. Sep 22 14:20
schestowitz From [H]omer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJH_n478h9A and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDKzcFH6j0k Sep 22 14:21
schestowitz I suppose you know how to make Oggs from these. Sep 22 14:21
zoobab I need the part where they talk about patent cold war Sep 22 14:25
zoobab and where there is one guy asking him about how it works for the small Sep 22 14:26
zoobab and Ballmer does not has any answer Sep 22 14:26
zoobab he speaks about troll companies, but not for small producers Sep 22 14:26
schestowitz Is in not in these? Sep 22 14:26
zoobab looking Sep 22 14:26
schestowitz So you have the talks from RMS on this subject…? Sep 22 14:27
schestowitz Where he explains what happens when Mr. Small Inventor sued IBM? Sep 22 14:27
zoobab http://circa.europa.eu/Public/irc/markt/markt_… Sep 22 14:30
jose i get stomach aches hearing ballmer speak.. out of context he sounds fine and i might actually think he is talking about the future. I can see how some audience members would be excited. Sep 22 14:30
zoobab we need to find out which contributions has been submitted before or after the 12th April 2006 Sep 22 14:30
zoobab http://press.ffii.org/Press_releases/Commission_c… Sep 22 14:31
schestowitz April? Sep 22 14:31
schestowitz I think I see now… Sep 22 14:32
twitter who’s the dork in the hat? Sep 22 14:57
twitter You can cut the video up with kino and then convert it with ffmpeg2theora.  -v5 works best for me. Sep 22 14:59
zoobab there are plenty of stuff in this consultation Sep 22 15:00
zoobab trying to mirror it Sep 22 15:00
schestowitz Can you type it down? Anyone? Sep 22 15:01
twitter “IP Interop framework” what a fuck. Sep 22 15:02
schestowitz He was caught off guard and couldn’t polish off with PR people. Sep 22 15:02
zoobab what is this “IP interop”? Sep 22 15:02
schestowitz [H]omer cut domw highlights from it: Sep 22 15:02
schestowitz http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5B0GTYfPoMo  : Ballmer claims Red Hat customers owe Microsoft money Sep 22 15:02
twitter That’s how he sums up why and how everyone should pay M$ to make their computers work. Sep 22 15:03
schestowitz Mhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ee1CKe3NB10 : ary Harrington doesn’t know what “Vista” is Sep 22 15:03
schestowitz http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ee1CKe3NB10 : Mary Harrington doesn’t know what “Vista” is Sep 22 15:03
schestowitz http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnw4o3ReOl8 : Ballmer says “Google reads your Mail” Sep 22 15:03
twitter Most people don’t know what Vista is, ha ha. Sep 22 15:03
schestowitz zoobab: where does it say IP interop? Sep 22 15:03
twitter Yes, he said “Google reads your mail, we don’t” Sep 22 15:04
twitter He said IP interop framework at the end of the FUD1 Sep 22 15:04
schestowitz Maybe this: http://www.informationweek.com/news/window… Sep 22 15:04
jose twitter, ballmer can afford to bring this topic up and risk google backslash because after the war, google’s business would be damaged significantly and the loss to microsoft would be an open market that they have lost billions and billions trying to crack plus now some settlement money Sep 22 15:05
jose it won’t work.. foss people will bring up this subject in greater light.. about the loss of privacy when you don’t use a foss os Sep 22 15:06
jose microsoft has tons to lose when people realize everything they do is under the big eye Sep 22 15:06
schestowitz jose: Mirosoft does the same as Google. Sep 22 15:06
jose and their dig lives subject to ballmer’s whims Sep 22 15:06
jose that’s my point. Sep 22 15:07
jose they have much more potential Sep 22 15:07
schestowitz I could find you recent posts about it. Everything Microsoft accuses Google of it does as well. It’s amazing hypocrisy. Sep 22 15:07
twitter “It is important that the open source products also have an obligation to participate in the same way in the intellectual property regime.  That’s why we’ve done the deal we have with Novell … we’ve  made sure we can provide for the appropriate fee Novell customers also get the rights to use our patented intellectual property” Sep 22 15:08
schestowitz It’s tactless for SweatyB to raise this issue because better awareness about privacy will stir people up against Windows, which is far /worse/ spyware. Sep 22 15:08
twitter “I think it’s great the way Novell stepped up to say Sep 22 15:08
twitter ‘intellectual property matters’ at least with respect to our intellectual property” Sep 22 15:09
schestowitz Most people like my parents never knew that Microsoft keeps track of their use of the PC. With the Google brouhaha  they begin to ask questions and realise Microsoft’s sins too. Sep 22 15:09
schestowitz Let me find a quote from a discussion in USENET Sep 22 15:09
twitter Opps, missed some, “People who use Red Hat, at least with respect to our intellectual property, in a sense have an obligation eventually to compensate us.” Sep 22 15:10
schestowitz It’s something about how Microsoft tries to add value to its value-less stoick and products by assigning this thing called IP to it and having it recognised by more companies/nations. Sep 22 15:10
schestowitz Ballmer is wrong.  “People who use Microsoft,  at least with respect to our dignity, in a sense have an obligation eventually to compensate us for all the slander.” Sep 22 15:11
twitter He also talks about how others are going to be shaking down the open source world. Sep 22 15:11
twitter I’m sure he’s wrong, but the above are his quotes. Sep 22 15:11
schestowitz I hereby call a rule called “intellectual slander”. Companies that accuse someone of owing them money without any evidence must by a licence (pay a fine). Sep 22 15:11
schestowitz Works in Germany, donnit? ;-) Sep 22 15:11
schestowitz twitter: he said this just days before Acacia sued Red Hat and Novell. Sep 22 15:12
twitter Ballmer is desperate and lying his ass off the whole talk. Sep 22 15:12
schestowitz It was also around the very same time of a press release announcing that a Microsoft GM became a VP (IIRC) in Acacia. Sep 22 15:12
twitter What I see is someone surrounded by superior competition and hostile questions. Sep 22 15:12
schestowitz Here: http://www.groklaw.net/arti… Sep 22 15:13
schestowitz “IP Innovation LLC has just filed a patent infringement claim against Red Hat and Novell. It was filed October 9, case no. 2:2007cv00447, IP Innovation, LLC et al v. Red Hat Inc. et al, in Texas. Where else? The patent troll magnet state.” Sep 22 15:13
schestowitz “And now let’s play, where’s Microsoft? You know, like where’s Waldo? Betcha he’s in the tree’s leaves somewhere if we look close enough. We had our first hint when Steve Ballmer said in his speech the other day that he figured other folks besides Microsoft would want Red Hat and FOSS to pay them for their patents.” Sep 22 15:13
schestowitz I was at my sister’s wedding at the time, so I didn’t follow all that stuff closely. Sep 22 15:13
schestowitz http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/071001/20071001005590.html?.v=1 Sep 22 15:14
twitter No one followed this, though the Wintel press covered it. Sep 22 15:14
schestowitz “Acacia Technologies Names Brad Brunell, Former Microsoft General Manager, Intellectual Property Licensing, to Management Team” Date: Monday October 1, 6:01 am ET Sep 22 15:14
schestowitz “So in July one Microsoft executive arrives; then as of October 1, there is the second, a patent guy. October 9, IP Innovation, a subsidiary, sues Red Hat. And Novell. So much for being Microsoft’s little buddy.” Sep 22 15:14
schestowitz ” Update:  Here’s a third ex-Microsoft employee, now a VP at Acacia.” Sep 22 15:15
schestowitz http://www.acaciatechnologies.com/aboutus_mgmt.htm Sep 22 15:15
twitter “The patents system is very good but imperfect.” Sep 22 15:15
twitter He has the nerve to say small companies have an advantage with patents. Sep 22 15:16
twitter “slightly more” Sep 22 15:16
schestowitz http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGC09B810Yk Just a concidence. Sep 22 15:16
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jose schestowitz, i thought about starting to write on parrot.. maybe a series to bring attention to that project (future home of mainline ruby, perl, python, etc, ithink).. but it can be dry stuff i think. Sep 22 15:20
jose by writing about it, i could myself become more familiar with it.. or whoever does the write-ups Sep 22 15:21
jose it doesn’t seem like a good idea any longer, but I’ll think about it when i look at parrot more closely. Sep 22 15:21
jose most people that would care and could contribute significantly probably know about the project anyway.. and i do think it will eventually come mainstream through python, perl, … Sep 22 15:22
schestowitz jose: what about that other project you had in mind? Sep 22 15:23
jose the only other real project i have in mind is about distros  and that is what i am thinking about today yesterday and into the near term future.. Sep 22 15:23
jose that is one reason i don’t think i’ll spent time on parrot Sep 22 15:23
schestowitz Parrot reminds me of Mono. Sep 22 15:25
schestowitz Mono mimics like a monkey (mono). Sep 22 15:26
schestowitz Parrot repeats someone else’s words. Is the name a concidence? Sep 22 15:26
schestowitz *coincidence? Sep 22 15:26
jose it does start with a “p” Sep 22 15:26
jose that’s a good point btw, their website mentions where parrot supposedly came from Sep 22 15:26
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_Doug hi there .. has Roy been good ? Sep 22 15:55
PetoKraus :) Sep 22 15:55
PetoKraus roy? good? :P Sep 22 15:55
PetoKraus man, virgin pissed me off today Sep 22 15:56
schestowitz LOL Sep 22 15:56
schestowitz _Doug: Microsoft issues debt. Sep 22 15:56
PetoKraus they told me, they’d bring me a switch. and it isn’t a switch, its a modem, with one ethernet cable connection only. D’OH! Sep 22 15:56
_Doug Dept ? Sep 22 15:57
schestowitz Just got this E-mail. Subject line: pump and … http://news.cnet.com/8301-1001_3-10047440-92.html Sep 22 15:57
schestowitz The trolls in USENET already spin it Sep 22 15:57
_Doug modem, Terminal Adaptor .. what’s the difference ? Sep 22 15:57
_Doug Angry IT workers: A ticking time bomb? Sep 22 15:58
_Doug http://www.infoworld.com/article/08/09/22/39F… Sep 22 15:58
schestowitz Programming is the same. Sep 22 15:58
schestowitz They ‘expire’ at some age Sep 22 15:58
PetoKraus _Doug: switch switches between connections, so, it’s obvious it has more than one ethernet socket…. Sep 22 15:58
_Doug Haaa .. it’s the accountants that are dangerous .. stupid ! Sep 22 15:58
schestowitz Offshoring… drop of 7%… sharpest one says IDG… Sep 22 15:58
_Doug Not to the people sending it to you, they call every small box a modem .. :) Sep 22 15:59
schestowitz “IT workers are mad as hell and they’re not going to take it anymore.” Where’s that cvid, _Doug ? Sep 22 15:59
_Doug cvid ? Sep 22 15:59
schestowitz vid (typo) Sep 22 15:59
_Doug what vid ? Sep 22 16:00
schestowitz Tim O’reilly:: “Hey! It’s Depression 2.oh” Sep 22 16:00
schestowitz http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90ELleCQvew Sep 22 16:01
jose _Doug: “For example, the business side usually assumes techies are lying to them, says Pfleging. “It’s the Captain Kirk school of management. Scotty says it’s going to take 48 hours to fix the warp engines, Kirk says you’ve got two, and somehow Scotty gets it done. But the real world doesn’t work that way.” “ Sep 22 16:06
_Doug That vid: a good example of what working in IT does to you .. Sep 22 16:07
schestowitz Hard day today? Sep 22 16:08
_Doug jose: I f*****g know .. !!! Sep 22 16:08
schestowitz _Doug: you should spend time helping us out bringing change. Sep 22 16:08
schestowitz Will make you feel better. Active vs. passive. Sep 22 16:08
schestowitz zoobab here is in FFII. Sep 22 16:09
_Doug You work in acedemia . .stay there .. Sep 22 16:09
schestowitz Yes, I know. Sep 22 16:09
schestowitz I’m thankful I didn’t follow the degree->job->car->marriage->mortgage->children->pay for collage (more mortgage) Sep 22 16:09
_Doug Fuckem, spend 12 hour days fixing machines to be used by morons .. no thanks … Sep 22 16:10
schestowitz 12? Sep 22 16:10
schestowitz Isn’t that against some law? Sep 22 16:10
_Doug We are exempt .. remember … Sep 22 16:10
schestowitz You need your time for telly, gym, bath, whatever… Sep 22 16:11
_Doug If it needs fixing stay til l2.00 am … Sep 22 16:11
jose “For example, three years ago, worldwide IT services provider Dimension Data realized it needed to recognize and reward its technical people as well as it does other employees, says Denise Messineo, senior vice president of HR for the company’s North American division.” wtf? Sep 22 16:11
schestowitz _Doug: yes, I know. Let me find something I sent my dad. Sep 22 16:11
jose 3 years ago! Sep 22 16:11
schestowitz Got it: http://www.cbronline.com/article_news.asp?… Sep 22 16:11
jose they aren’t martians after all Sep 22 16:11
schestowitz Shi*. Their MS site is down (no DB) Sep 22 16:12
schestowitz Googld cache: http://64.233.183.104/search?q=cache:http%3A//www.cb… Sep 22 16:12
_Doug Site says need to login .. Sep 22 16:12
schestowitz “Approaching half (42.5%) of the 500 UK IT staff surveyed said that an increased volume of work was the main reason for working extra hours, but 7% said that the turbulent economic situation made them feel that a longer working day was necessary. Only one in 10 of those putting in the extra time said they were paid for their efforts.” Sep 22 16:12
schestowitz “A hard-working 27% of respondents were working 48-60 hours a week, while 5% were spending an energy-sapping 60-75 hours at the coalface. Not surprisingly, more than 40% said that the long hours had affected their health, while many felt that it had dented their relationships, their time to pursue outside interests and their social life.” Sep 22 16:12
jose microsoft is not a drain on the economy and on businesses.. Sep 22 16:13
schestowitz See the trend yet? Sep 22 16:13
jose that’s because the it folks cushion the blow Sep 22 16:13
schestowitz “not” or “now”? Sep 22 16:13
jose get squeezed Sep 22 16:13
_Doug And the new CIO get hireed because he went to college with the owner … Sep 22 16:13
_Doug “Microsoft is also planning to float out corporate debt of up to $6 billion” Sep 22 16:15
_Doug What’s that ? Sep 22 16:15
jose outsourcing draws attention from management because of imbalances around the world. the rest ..is history Sep 22 16:16
_Doug ot: a place I contracted in, the PHB couldn’t afford a fire extinguisher as he spent the money on an air ioniser .. for his smoking . .and set the wastepaper basket on fire .. :] Sep 22 16:17
jose it means microsoft is borrowing money from people in exchange for a percent return Sep 22 16:17
jose _Doug… Sep 22 16:17
_Doug define “float out corporate debt” Sep 22 16:17
schestowitz *LOL* Sep 22 16:18
schestowitz Not so ‘funny’ per se Sep 22 16:18
schestowitz Just the irony. Sep 22 16:18
jose get others to pay you. they pay your bills and you pay them back with interest Sep 22 16:18
_Doug There are the f*****g morons you have to deal with .. day after day .. Sep 22 16:18
schestowitz Until death do us part. *LOL* Sep 22 16:19
_Doug His pal from college unplugs the server to plug in his laptop, in a room with over a hundred sockets to choose from .. :) Sep 22 16:19
jose more funneling of money into bgates’ and co’s stock interchange program. they need all the cash out there. Sep 22 16:19
schestowitz That’s what makes it a pyramid. Sep 22 16:20
schestowitz I can’t understand this. Other people say very confidently that it’s pump & dump going unnoticed, but the press…? Sep 22 16:20
jose who owns the press.. some of those taking maximal advantage.. that’s one possibility Sep 22 16:21
jose it’s also about being conservative and not reporting on “theories”.. expert sources vs mainstream sources vs common sense sources (bloggers even if sometimes wrong) Sep 22 16:22
jose experts are conservative but will hit on “theories”. mainstream is conservatives and reports the obvious fire in progress or the burnt down building.. bloggers are the ones talking about that building having been ripe for anihilation for 10 years Sep 22 16:23
jose .. except that 10 years ago there weren’t many actual “bloggers” :-) Sep 22 16:24
schestowitz Maximalists? Sep 22 16:27
schestowitz jose: the press can be used like Greenspun [sic] to inspire confidence. Sep 22 16:27
schestowitz “Moving the economy” if you know what I mean… Sep 22 16:28
jose “can be” ….. “is” Sep 22 16:28
schestowitz I was once taught that it’s frowned upon by monitors if you bring up the R word. Sep 22 16:28
jose the system is based on trust Sep 22 16:29
_Doug Republican ? Sep 22 16:29
schestowitz recession… even worse if you mention the D word… deflation of depression because it’s a self-fulfilling prophecy) Sep 22 16:29
schestowitz I’d compare it to a drunk man who just carries on drinking, never ever sobering up. Sep 22 16:29
schestowitz When the money runs out and no more alcohol can be bought, the problem is severe. There’s no home or prospects. You’re broke… or even worse — deep in debt. Sep 22 16:30
jose well, one view is that you get the person off alcohol as easy as possible, but the tendency is to go further into it Sep 22 16:30
_Doug exactly, right now no one wan’t to hear about companies in financial irregularities  .. might bring the whole house of cards down … Sep 22 16:30
schestowitz To say more about the alcohol (or drugs) analogy, there’s also the addctiion. Sep 22 16:31
jose an approach were the gov has too much control can backfire because gov is not necessarily run by (a) the most understanding of the situation Sep 22 16:31
jose (b) those without corruption (corruption is everywhere) Sep 22 16:31
schestowitz Go ahead and tell a man with 3 kids that they can’t go to the private school anymore, that he needs to rent a hut and live on simpler things like corn. Sep 22 16:32
jose (c) those with aggressive checks and balances Sep 22 16:32
schestowitz I agree with your assessment regarding “theories” Sep 22 16:32
trmanco schestowitz, http://groups.google.com/group/pt.comp.so.lin… Sep 22 16:32
schestowitz When I wrote things for Datamation (I choose not to for now), theories were not embraced so willfully. Sep 22 16:33
schestowitz Perens struggled to even published a Groklaw-like analysis. Sep 22 16:33
jose trmanco, i couldn’t really follow it.. Sep 22 16:34
schestowitz And the New York Times gave no room for people who protested going into Iraq before the whole thing started. Or so I’ve read anyway.. Sep 22 16:34
jose i’m not schestowitz though Sep 22 16:34
schestowitz Thanks, trmanco Sep 22 16:34
schestowitz jose: I don’t speak Portuguese either. Sep 22 16:35
jose :-) Sep 22 16:35
schestowitz My family in Florida is better at Spanish than in English though… well, some of it. The part from PR. Sep 22 16:35
jose i had a great great from uk i think Sep 22 16:36
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trmanco there is a reference to BN saying its not credible Sep 22 16:37
schestowitz What isn’t? Sep 22 16:37
schestowitz trmanco: they shoot messengers. It’s easier. Sep 22 16:37
jose hey… tony! Sep 22 16:38
jose i could at least tell the last poster had a clue Sep 22 16:38
schestowitz Novell employees help them by blogging about us and saying “bad, bad site. Bad” Sep 22 16:38
jose and i don’t speak portugese Sep 22 16:38
trmanco lol Sep 22 16:39
trmanco I’m tony Sep 22 16:39
trmanco :P Sep 22 16:39
*kentma has quit (“Leaving.”) Sep 22 16:41
_Doug Microsoft business practices described by VMWare Sep 22 16:42
_Doug “Microsoft has implemented distribution arrangements with x86 system vendors and” Sep 22 16:42
_Doug “independent software vendors, or ISVs, related to certain of their operating systems that” Sep 22 16:42
_Doug “only permit the use of Microsoft’s virtualization format and do not allow the use of our corresponding formatcorresponding format” Sep 22 16:42
_Doug http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1124… Sep 22 16:42
trmanco aqui também nao d+a Sep 22 16:43
trmanco oops Sep 22 16:43
trmanco wrong window Sep 22 16:43
schestowitz Was it released just now? Sep 22 16:43
schestowitz Oh, I see it in GL news picks now. Sep 22 16:43
_Doug Is every tecnological ‘innovation’ out of Microsoft only designed with one use in mind, to sabatage third companies technology on Windows ? Sep 22 16:43
tessier_ Staying on top is certainly their highest priority. Sep 22 16:44
_Doug Does anyone see the irony of a VM machine that only works with WIndows ? Sep 22 16:45
jose “you can’t pay the bills” if you don’t cheat and give up monopoly power Sep 22 16:45
schestowitz _Doug: it’s EEE+licensing. Sep 22 16:45
schestowitz VMware told Forbes (IIRC) that it would consider antitrust. Sep 22 16:46
_Doug brain storm: lets hack Windows so VM sessions will only run on x86 on Windows .. Sep 22 16:46
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schestowitz With Microsoft at the top (Maritz) that would be like a joke. Maritz himself was among those who were antitrust accomplices (“cut off the air supply”) Sep 22 16:47
jose schestowitz, companies making deals with Microsoft are also considering antitrust. part of this is leverage (for when renewal comes up).. Sep 22 16:47
schestowitz Jim Allchin, Microsoft: “We should dedicate a cross-group team to come up with ways to leverage Windows technically more.” Sep 22 16:47
jose but another situation might be that microsoft goes hard when they know they can settle relatively painlessly Sep 22 16:47
jose eg, maritz Sep 22 16:47
_Doug Caunt fault them on being consistant .. Sep 22 16:48
schestowitz Good point. Sep 22 16:48
schestowitz Where’s FTC? Sep 22 16:48
jose i can and i do Sep 22 16:48
schestowitz Maybe too busy with other violations. Sep 22 16:48
jose :-) Sep 22 16:48
schestowitz Lots of job in the market these days: SEC and FTC is hiring. Sep 22 16:48
schestowitz *jobs … are Sep 22 16:48
_Doug Of course VM isn’t going to be worth it as you stil lhave to buy additional ‘virtual’ licenses .. Sep 22 16:49
_Doug “Microsoft commits to provide “commercially reasonable” support to their Premier-level support customers using Microsoft products in virtual machines.  Unfortunately, this commitment is sometimes misunderstood by Microsoft personnel” Sep 22 16:49
jose SEC FTC should consider foss more Sep 22 16:49
_Doug http://www.vmware.com/solutions/whitepapers/ms… Sep 22 16:49
jose sure.. to run their systems.. Sep 22 16:49
jose but rather the community of bloggers etc to help them reach further Sep 22 16:49
schestowitz jose: who would give them the check? Sep 22 16:50
jose but then it’s probably by design that they come up short Sep 22 16:50
jose exactly Sep 22 16:50
schestowitz FOSS can’t issue incentives, campaign contributions, etc Sep 22 16:50
_Doug “Microsoft offers a portfolio of “Test Drive” virtual machines packaged in Microsoft’s VHD format.  These “VHDs” are free for use by anyone wishing to run selected products on a trial, non-production basis” Sep 22 16:50
tessier_ Was Microsoft at all negatively affected in the recent credit/banking issues? Sep 22 16:50
*libervisco__ is now known as libervisco Sep 22 16:50
jose i hope governing will become easier to manage from the ground up.. this will make campaign contributions less important Sep 22 16:50
twitter non free software won’t be able to do those things long either. Sep 22 16:50
schestowitz I’m still waiting for SEC to crack down on Robbie Bach. Sep 22 16:51
_Doug credit/banking issues: I guess so, but didn’t the US government bail out everyone ? Sep 22 16:51
schestowitz http://schestowitz.com/Weblog/archives/2… Sep 22 16:51
twitter they will, when the money runs out. Sep 22 16:51
_Doug “Microsoft does not allow third parties to choose the Microsoft products they want to demonstrate in Windows-based virtual machines” Sep 22 16:51
schestowitz Yes, with Novell~1 Sep 22 16:52
schestowitz Hyper-Vell Sep 22 16:52
schestowitz SUSE? Only under Windows, in a window. Sep 22 16:52
schestowitz Hovsepian counts his dollas! Sep 22 16:52
schestowitz http://boycottnovell.com/2006/12/31/some… Sep 22 16:53
jose we are going to kick their arses .. microsoft’s. Sep 22 16:53
schestowitz http://boycottnovell.com/2008/02/28/novell… “Novell Operates at Loss, Layoffs Expected, Company Sold Out But Ron Hovsepian Receives Reward” Sep 22 16:53
twitter M$ is flailing.  They kicked their own ass because non free software development does not work. Sep 22 16:53
schestowitz Just like McBride. Sep 22 16:53
jose it’s not about technology as much as about engaging the user. they are toast.. (my toaster setting is on carbon but that might take a while Sep 22 16:54
jose ) Sep 22 16:54
twitter Users are engaged to get out.  They want their computers to work for them. Sep 22 16:54
jose source code will help a lot   ms won’t offer that Sep 22 16:54
schestowitz Work /on/ them. Sep 22 16:55
jose at least not until they are decimated Sep 22 16:55
schestowitz Whose PC is at anyway? :-) “Your Vista requires enablement” Sep 22 16:55
schestowitz Novell gradually goes into the dustbin it express concerns to Bloomberg last week) and the CEO seems to be getting a payrise. Only in America! Sep 22 16:56
tessier_ _Doug: The government didn’t bail out Lehmon Brothers. And they didn’t bail out all of the investors who sold their stocks at a loss in a panic. Sep 22 16:57
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_Doug The US gov poured masses of funds into the stock exchange or something .. ? Sep 22 17:02
schestowitz No, not exactly. Sep 22 17:02
schestowitz From what I can gather… let me get the URL. Sep 22 17:03
schestowitz twitter brought this one up the other day: http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=… Sep 22 17:03
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schestowitz “The Bush administration asked Congress for unchecked power to buy $700 billion in bad mortgage investments from U.S. financial companies in what would be an unprecedented government intrusion into the markets.” Sep 22 17:03
schestowitz Slush funds. :-p Sep 22 17:03
_Doug “buy $700 billion in bad mortgage investments from U.S. financial companies “ Sep 22 17:04
_Doug Well, that’s a bailout if there ever was one .. Sep 22 17:04
neighborlee my friend whom I have faith in these things says its a mistake and I agree Sep 22 17:04
_Doug Where is this 700,000,000,000 gonna come from ? Sep 22 17:04
neighborlee ‘its a loan’, but its not guaranteed pay back either from what I hear…bailout indeed Sep 22 17:05
neighborlee us of course ;) Sep 22 17:05
neighborlee you and me Sep 22 17:05
neighborlee BUT Sep 22 17:05
neighborlee congress at least is holding out atm, to help bail out failing home loans and keep homeowners off streets Sep 22 17:05
_Doug Not if you keep your money in the channel islands Sep 22 17:05
schestowitz _Doug: some guy in UAE is worth this much, I think. Sep 22 17:06
schestowitz (intangible) Sep 22 17:06
_Doug Yea, why not seel the US to the UAE :) Sep 22 17:06
schestowitz I thought about it. Sep 22 17:07
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schestowitz Dubye might need to make some more friends in the Gulf. Sep 22 17:07
neighborlee I jiust read something, and I think ikm feeling good about deciding to  go centos rather than ubuntu: http://www.kroah.com/log/linux/lpc_2008_keynote.html , I am curious though what they contribute to gnome Sep 22 17:07
schestowitz *Dubya Sep 22 17:07
schestowitz neighborlee: don’t go nasty on *buntu Sep 22 17:07
benJIman neighborlee: Next to nothing compared to red hat / novell. Sep 22 17:07
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schestowitz They are Not the Bad Guy^TM : http://boycottnovell.com/2008/09/18/kroah-… Sep 22 17:08
schestowitz benJIman: we don’t need trolling here too (we have enough in the comments of BN). http://boycottnovell.com/2008/09/18/… Sep 22 17:09
schestowitz http://members.arstechnica.com/x/svdsinner… Sep 22 17:09
benJIman schestowitz: Not trolling, I answered a question with a factually correct answer. Sep 22 17:09
benJIman Canonical have what, 2 GNOME developers? Sep 22 17:09
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neighborlee schestowitz: not nasty..just conservatively cautious ;) Sep 22 17:11
benJIman neighborlee: Canonical are basically a proprietary software company. Sep 22 17:12
benJIman They do a little free software development, but most of their development effort is on their non-free launchpad. Sep 22 17:12
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schestowitz benJIman: I wasn’t referring to this specifically. Sep 22 17:12
neighborlee yeah I admit finding out launchpad wasn’t free, was a liberating moment for me Sep 22 17:13
_Doug If the econony does tank, then all you MS certified sandwich makers will have to go back to sandwich making :) Sep 22 17:13
*benJIman doesn’t have a microsoft certification yet. Sep 22 17:13
neighborlee rofl Sep 22 17:13
schestowitz You come to a “boycott novell” irc channel to defend Novell and criticise Ubuntu. Sep 22 17:13
schestowitz That’s trolling, by definition. Sep 22 17:13
_Doug What exactly did he say ? Sep 22 17:14
schestowitz _Doug: *LOL* funny. Sep 22 17:14
benJIman schestowitz: I criticised canonical not ubuntu. Sep 22 17:14
*schestowitz has changed the topic to: “Exploring the reality behind exclusionary deals with Microsoft and their subtle (yet severe) implications” Sep 22 17:15
twitter name calling is not a criticism, Benji. Sep 22 17:15
benJIman twitter: I didn’t call them names, I criticised them for primarily concentrating on developing proprietary software. Sep 22 17:15
twitter proprietary is a four letter word. Sep 22 17:16
benJIman O_o Sep 22 17:16
twitter get some rest, you need it. Sep 22 17:16
benJIman If and when they release launchpad as free software my opinion will change. Sep 22 17:17
schestowitz http://www.workswithu.com/2008/09/21/attention-mic… Sep 22 17:17
twitter You are a Vista user, Benji, so I don’t know why you are so hard on Canonical. Sep 22 17:17
schestowitz And he likes it. Sep 22 17:18
twitter no lube. Sep 22 17:18
schestowitz :-s Sep 22 17:18
twitter bad taste, I know. Sep 22 17:18
benJIman twitter: I don’t use vista at the moment. openSUSE at home and server 2003 at work. I have used vista though. Sep 22 17:18
neighborlee twitter: ohh dear ;00 Sep 22 17:18
neighborlee you guys ;) Sep 22 17:18
neighborlee I didn’t see that coming I gotta tell ya ;) Sep 22 17:19
schestowitz Everone loves Vista. http://www.roumazeilles.net/news/fr/wordpress/wp-content… Sep 22 17:19
twitter “happily” as I recall, Benji. Sep 22 17:19
benJIman twitter: Yes it’s quite an impressive OS. Sep 22 17:20
twitter So why do you hate Launchpad and Canonical? Sep 22 17:20
benJIman Even if I wouldn’t use it given a choice due to it being non-free, I’m still allowed to admire its technical features. Sep 22 17:20
neighborlee well I ‘had’ it, before I sold it to my friend whom I warned ‘about’ it but he still bought it..now that h e  has 4 gigs of ram he seems ‘content’..we’ll see I guess…. Sep 22 17:20
benJIman I admire launchpad from a technical point of view too. Sep 22 17:20
neighborlee It has some features he likes..so far gaming wize jury is out , not sure yet Sep 22 17:20
schestowitz http://www.novell.com/promo/hp/migratingwindowsvista.html Sep 22 17:21
schestowitz “With our Systems Management solutions, you can manage the entire lifecycle of your operating systems, including Vista.” Sep 22 17:21
schestowitz “Prepare now, Windows Vista is coming.” Sep 22 17:21
twitter ha ha Sep 22 17:21
neighborlee I Liked it oerall <ducks flying debree>, but it really chewed up my harddrive and I didn’t like that at all,,so yeah friend got it. Sep 22 17:21
tessier_ Those slides from kroah do indeed make a good case. Sep 22 17:22
neighborlee benJIman: same here Sep 22 17:22
neighborlee however as time permits I do hope to go completely linux someday, I just need to break away from msacces and a few other apps Ive sadly allowed myself to depend on over time Sep 22 17:23
benJIman Not having windows at home is a good excuse for not taking work home. Sep 22 17:23
neighborlee ha Sep 22 17:23
twitter I love Novell’s Vista migration image http://www.novell.com/promo/hp/mig… Sep 22 17:24
twitter duh, http://www.novell.com/promo/img/migratetovista.jpg Sep 22 17:24
benJIman There were three of them http://bw.uwcs.co.uk/b/novell_vista.png http://bw.uwcs.co.uk/b/novell_vista_2.png http://bw.uwcs.co.uk/b/novell_vista_3.png Sep 22 17:24
schestowitz They show you Novell customers Sep 22 17:24
_Doug benJIman: why won’t they let you use Linux at work ? Sep 22 17:25
twitter It’s like 1929 all over again. Sep 22 17:25
tessier_ nah Sep 22 17:25
tessier_ 1929 was far worse. Sep 22 17:25
benJIman _Doug: I’m doing mostly .net development, doesn’t make sense. Sep 22 17:25
neighborlee twitter: ok I gotta admit, thats beyond weird Sep 22 17:25
schestowitz Looks at the slope on this chick: http://www.google.com/trends?q=novell Sep 22 17:25
benJIman If there were a good .net application server for linux then maybe I could. Sep 22 17:25
benJIman Mono is getting quite complete now, but still missing an appserver. Sep 22 17:25
twitter Check the image again http://www.novell.com/promo/img/migratetovista.jpg Sep 22 17:25
twitter :) Sep 22 17:26
twitter splat Sep 22 17:26
_Doug “Migrating to Vista? We can help you make the leap.” Sep 22 17:26
twitter he’s got his eyes closed too. Sep 22 17:26
_Doug What kind of a company is it that advertises a competitor ? Sep 22 17:26
tessier_ And look at the slope on this one: http://www.google.com/trends?q=linux Sep 22 17:26
neighborlee vista is pretty though ;) Sep 22 17:26
tessier_ They seem quite similar. Sep 22 17:26
*neighborlee ducks debris, going to bunker this time <<<<<<<<<< Sep 22 17:26
tessier_ http://www.google.com/trends?q=redhat Sep 22 17:27
tessier_ Ouch. That one is way worse. Sep 22 17:27
_Doug At the same time we have MS advertising ‘Novel Migration’ … Sep 22 17:27
benJIman tessier_: That’s because people are migrating from linux to ubuntu ¬_¬. Sep 22 17:27
twitter You will find a black screen in the bunker. Sep 22 17:27
schestowitz Novell is consistent at least, even after licking the Microsoft boot: http://www.google.com/trends/viz?q=novell… Sep 22 17:27
twitter very pretty Sep 22 17:27
neighborlee twitter: lol Sep 22 17:27
schestowitz tessier_: see “Ubuntu” Sep 22 17:27
tessier_ Yes, Ubuntu is way up. I’m not sure if it is good or bad that people identify their OS with a particular distribution. Sep 22 17:27
neighborlee but hey if I need pretty, I ‘just  use E17′ ;) Sep 22 17:28
schestowitz People are being told about this “ubuntu” thing, which is “kind of like Windows, but just $0″ Sep 22 17:28
twitter this trend is more consistent http://www.google.com/trends?q=gnu%2Flinux&ctab=0… Sep 22 17:28
tessier_ And GregKH’s presentation makes me worry about Ubuntu having such a strong brand. Sep 22 17:28
neighborlee tessier_: yeah..that point is extremely up for debate Sep 22 17:29
tessier_ twitter: heh…that’s consistently nothing. :) Sep 22 17:29
benJIman Had someone ask the other week ‘is linux another type of ubuntu, or is it just a “kernel”?’ Sep 22 17:29
schestowitz Did “GNU/Linux” have heart attack in 2004? Sep 22 17:29
twitter http://www.google.com/trends?q=ubuntu%2C+debia… Sep 22 17:29
AVRS2 hm, Russia is always near the top in those quieries Sep 22 17:30
*benJIman wanders off. Sep 22 17:30
schestowitz One-trick pony: http://www.google.com/trends?q=hovsepian&amp… Sep 22 17:30
AVRS2 Including “windows”. Not so much on “ubuntu”. Sep 22 17:30
tessier_ ubuntu gets almost as much as windows vista Sep 22 17:31
twitter http://www.google.com/trends?q=windows%2C+xp%2… Sep 22 17:33
twitter rises and falls. Sep 22 17:33
_Doug Something you’ll never see: Microsoft recommends Apple – Mac OS X Leopard .. :) Sep 22 17:34
schestowitz Roughly Drafted powered by GNU/Linux, not Mac OS Sep 22 17:34
neighborlee _Doug: :) Sep 22 17:34
schestowitz Mcirosoft finds itself having to buy^Hnnovate companies that use just FOSS and GNU/Linux. Sep 22 17:35
_Doug So I guess Novell has ceeded the Desktop to Microsoft, yea benJIman ? Sep 22 17:35
schestowitz Many recently examples include Newsvine and that ad outfit from WA state! Sep 22 17:35
schestowitz Rex reckons it’s part of the peace treaty. Sep 22 17:35
schestowitz http://boycottnovell.com/2008/09/2… Sep 22 17:36
schestowitz “With Novell, they told Novell that if they didn’t cancel the desktop project that Microsoft would go into the file and print server market with NT. Little did Novell’s board of directors know that Microsoft planned to release a server that would knock NetWare out of the market anyway.” Sep 22 17:37
twitter funny how those treaties are always one way Sep 22 17:37
schestowitz “I would agree with this assessment. Novell has collapsed to Sep 22 17:37
schestowitz Microsoft’s demands again, and has again backed off their desktop efforts, as did Red Hat. Too bad too, because SUSE has one of the best desktop environments of any Linux distributor, including Ubuntu. The commercially supported SLED is very reliable, installs easily, and automatically installs the optimal video and audio drivers.” Sep 22 17:37
schestowitz Corel too, twitter. Sep 22 17:37
twitter In Korea, I think they did the same thing to Hansoft. Sep 22 17:38
schestowitz Really? Sep 22 17:39
schestowitz I haven’t heard from Hansoft in a long time. What happened? Sep 22 17:39
*PetoKraus has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) Sep 22 17:40
twitter Don’t remember, some kind of deal with the Korean gov to make M$ Word work. Sep 22 17:40
twitter As usual, the only winner was M$. Sep 22 17:40
schestowitz Can you find a link? Sep 22 17:42
twitter As both Corel and Novell go out of business, you would think people would get the message – M$ cooperation is ruin. Sep 22 17:42
schestowitz I’m looking too. Sep 22 17:42
twitter I can look, but it will take a day or so.  I’m about to run off for a while. Sep 22 17:42
*_Doug has quit (“http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client”) Sep 22 17:42
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  25. It EEEsn't Just a Microsoft Thing Anymore

    The EEErosion of Python's independence is a known problem and Microsoft is not the sole culprit



  26. Links 1/12/2019: KDE's GTK CSD Support, Skrooge 2.21.0

    Links for the day



  27. Links 1/12/2019: Genode OS 19.11 Release, Sam Hartman (DPL) Speaks Out on SystemD

    Links for the day



  28. Maximalists Cherry-Picking the So-Called 'Corbyn' 'Leak' for Their Patent Agenda While the US Lobbies Britain for Software Patents and Worse

    A quick look at what last week's media coverage may have missed and what patent maximalists don't want to tell us about confidential trade-related documents



  29. IRC Proceedings: Saturday, November 30, 2019

    IRC logs for Saturday, November 30, 2019



  30. Microsoft Loves Linux Because It Pays for It

    Microsoft cannot ‘buy’ Linux itself, so it has been buying (bribing) all the ‘right’ people while telling them (and then they tell us, too!) they “love Linux” (which they don’t even use!)


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