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09.23.08

IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: September 22nd, 2008 – Part 2

Posted in IRC Logs at 2:54 am by Dr. Roy Schestowitz

GNOME Gedit

Enter the IRC channel now

schestowitz http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/breakingnews/infote… Sep 22 17:43
schestowitz “Hansoft, meanwhile, will also be sending speakers to the conference. The company is one of Korea’s biggest software firms and has active participation in various open source projects, including Asianux, a Linux version targeted at Asian markets.” Sep 22 17:43
schestowitz Some spell it “haansoft” Sep 22 17:43
schestowitz http://www.pcwelt.de/news/englishnews/Software/111711/ “South Korean Linux developer Haansoft Inc. has joined Open Source Development Labs Inc.” Sep 22 17:44
schestowitz http://www.marketwire.com/mw/release.do?id=859869  “The Linux Foundation, the nonprofit organization dedicated to accelerating the growth of Linux, today announced that it is opening an office in Seoul, Korea. Kwangjei “Daniel” Cho, former senior director of Haansoft, Inc., will be the Linux Foundation director of Korea. “ Sep 22 17:45
schestowitz http://www.koreaitdaily.com/ddaily/viewPage.do?sn=100948 “According to Haansoft, this is the first time a Korean PC brand has launched a Linux-based PC.  The PC uses “Asianux Desktop 3” operating system along with applications including Haansoft Office 2008 Linux to be launched next month. “ Sep 22 17:45
schestowitz http://www.koreaitdaily.com/ddaily/viewPage.do?sn=100897 “Haansoft to donate Linux based Hangul program to Daejeon City  [...] The company provided 780 copies of the Linux-based Hangul 2005 to centers that house infants and small children through Childcare Center Association of Daejeon city. “ Sep 22 17:46
schestowitz http://english.etnews.co.kr/news/detail.html?id=200701110004 “Haansoft Teams Up with Redgate, Targets Linux Market in Asia [...] Haansoft said on Wednesday that it had teamed up with domestic security firm Redgate to reinforce security for ‘Asianux.’” Sep 22 17:46
schestowitz Some guy attacked the messenger in OSnews: http://www.osnews.com/thread?330938 Sep 22 17:53
schestowitz twitter: I find nothing substantial about this pair: http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=mozclient&amp… Sep 22 17:55
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schestowitz “ANALYST DATAMONITOR says that half of global organisations are going to freeze their tech budgets in 2009.” http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/new… Sep 22 18:16
_Doug How Linux lost the battle for your desktop .. Sep 22 18:41
_Doug http://www.techradar.com/news/computin… Sep 22 18:41
schestowitz http://www.pcanswers.co.uk/node/4639 Sep 22 18:44
schestowitz They published an old article the other day. Linux for the Sep 22 18:44
schestowitz They published an old article the other day. Linux for the g/f Sep 22 18:44
_Doug we’re way past ‘is it usable by your mom/grand mother.girlfriend’ … Sep 22 18:47
trmanco schestowitz, microsoft can’t sue me here in europe if I use a patent of that company right? Sep 22 18:48
schestowitz It’s /EASIER/ for that crowd. Sep 22 18:48
schestowitz That’s the absurdity of the argument.  Unless you need a specialised Windows-only app (typically just ‘expert’ users), then a lot of burden is unsaddled when settling for GNU/Linux. Less phone calls about slow PC (i.e. malware). Sep 22 18:49
schestowitz trmanco: yes, but it needs to go further < http://boycottnovell.com/2008/08/2… > Sep 22 18:50
MinceR and even if you do need a specialized windows-only app, it might be possible to either run it in wine (and get of windows entirely) or put it in virtualbox or another vm (and get a better work environment overall) Sep 22 18:50
trmanco schestowitz, thanks Sep 22 18:51
schestowitz Yes, that too. A lot of the specialised apps-type barrier Microsoft is trying to reintroduce by deviating from and ‘innovating’ above standards, e.g. Silverlight. Sep 22 18:51
schestowitz An economical downturn might be well deserved for shocking stories like this (which hardly receive media coverage): http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/09/22/c… Sep 22 18:53
trmanco I like this 7 guy Sep 22 18:59
trmanco He gives good replys to the trolls on usenet :) Sep 22 19:00
_Doug How can I virtualize without the high cost of VMware? Sep 22 19:00
_Doug http://www.vmwarecostswaytoomuch.com/ Sep 22 19:00
schestowitz :-) Sep 22 19:00
_Doug :) Sep 22 19:00
schestowitz _Doug: I wrote about it in BN Sep 22 19:00
schestowitz The trolls went on the defense (for Microsoft) Sep 22 19:00
schestowitz http://boycottnovell.com/2008/09/22… Sep 22 19:01
_Doug ahh Sep 22 19:01
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_Doug sorry, I’ve been preocupied doing some research .. Sep 22 19:07
_Doug back in ten … Sep 22 19:07
AVRS2 hmm look and feel can be patented in Russia, though not of a program oO Sep 22 19:08
schestowitz So it has to be manufacured, right? Sep 22 19:08
AVRS2 Is that the same way Star Wars toys were patented? Sep 22 19:08
AVRS2 Yes. Sep 22 19:08
AVRS2 Not sure if software patents are prohibited or not… Sep 22 19:08
AVRS2 Programs cannot be patented. Sep 22 19:08
AVRS2 Game rules and methods cannot be patented. Sep 22 19:09
schestowitz Manufacturing is why I find some patents acceptable. Like designs of complex machinery Sep 22 19:09
AVRS2 Topology of integral schemes cannot be patented. Sep 22 19:09
schestowitz How close is the Russian govt’ (current) to the US? Sep 22 19:09
schestowitz Nothing like Yeltsin and Clinton, eh? Sep 22 19:09
AVRS2 Even colors are included in that look and feel thing. Sep 22 19:10
AVRS2 don’t know, sorry Sep 22 19:10
AVRS2 But industrial machines cannot be patented. Sep 22 19:11
schestowitz India is under siege. Sep 22 19:11
AVRS2 As “промышленный образец”. Sep 22 19:11
schestowitz Software patents from the back door. Sep 22 19:11
schestowitz A Brit in USENET tells me that McCreevy might at least be on his way out. Sep 22 19:12
AVRS2 Objects of unstable shapes consisting of fluid, gas etc substances cannot be patented as a sample, either. Sep 22 19:12
AVRS2 (Civil Code, part 4, article(?) 1352, paragraph 5, item 3) Sep 22 19:13
AVRS2 as copied from the Microsoft-IIS-based patent office site. Sep 22 19:14
schestowitz USPT Oh could come to attempt harmonisation (contamination) in Russia. Sep 22 19:14
schestowitz That’s what they strive to achieve in the EU in order to inject value into products that lose their value. Sep 22 19:15
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AVRS2 http://www.fips.ru/ usability sucks, so it’s hard to search; but there are many patents filed by Microsoft. Sep 22 19:16
AVRS2 hmm what is an eMule readme.txt file doing there? Sep 22 19:17
AVRS2 http://www.fips.ru/vptb/readme.txt Sep 22 19:17
schestowitz :-) Sep 22 19:17
schestowitz It doesn’t work for me. I enabled JS. Sep 22 19:18
AVRS2 I haven’t. Sep 22 19:18
schestowitz What a mess in Firefox. Sep 22 19:18
AVRS2 http://www.fips.ru/w3search/query4.asp is just site search. Sep 22 19:18
schestowitz I highlight items on the right and a menu appears far on the left. Sep 22 19:18
schestowitz “eMule Copyright (C)2002-2007 Merkur (devteam at emule-project dot net) This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify it under the terms of the GNU General Public License as published by the Free Software Foundation; either version 2 of the License, or (at your option) any late” Sep 22 19:19
schestowitz “b>font color=red”ВНИМАНИЕ! По техническим причинам для <u>i>новых<i>u> платных пользователей с 26.05.08 по 02.06.08 работы по <i>u>открытию<u>i> доступа к базам данных через Интернет&nbsp; производиться не будут. Базы данных работают в обычном режиме. Приносим из Sep 22 19:19
schestowitz винения за доставленные неудобства.font>b>br> Sep 22 19:19
schestowitz Sep 22 19:19
AVRS2 tsk-tsk Sep 22 19:20
AVRS2 new paid users? Sep 22 19:20
schestowitz eMule? Sep 22 19:21
AVRS2 Windows-only Sep 22 19:21
AVRS2 oh, there is a site map Sep 22 19:22
schestowitz Yes, that’s what I though. I don’t do p2p or torrent. Sep 22 19:23
AVRS2 (Google cache) http://209.85.135.104/search?q=ca… Sep 22 19:24
AVRS2 hm, remove the search query… Sep 22 19:24
AVRS2 I wonder if that’s talking about copyright violations. The encoding is wrong. Sep 22 19:24
AVRS2 http://www.fips.ru/russite/ – database search, l/p: guest/guest Sep 22 19:27
AVRS2 http://www.fips.ru/ensite/ – English Sep 22 19:27
schestowitz Does Google Patents cover just USPTO? Sep 22 19:27
AVRS2 The annoying search has to be reset every time it fails… Sep 22 19:31
schestowitz Microsoft refers to its anti-Linux playbook to attack VMware: http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=1601 Sep 22 19:32
_Doug “Drue Reeves noted that Microsoft representatives were handing out cards with the URL outside VMware’s user conference in Las Vegas last week until they were asked to leave the premises” Sep 22 19:34
schestowitz Typical. Sep 22 19:37
schestowitz They did the same type of stuff before. Let me find it. Sep 22 19:37
schestowitz http://community.zdnet.co.uk/blog/0,1000000… Sep 22 19:38
_Doug ““open source software” is the software code that may or may not implement an open standard” Sep 22 19:39
_Doug http://download.microsoft.com/documents/aus… Sep 22 19:39
_Doug :) Sep 22 19:39
schestowitz “This is not the first time that I’ve seen this kind of behaviour. Back in the late 1990s when the Outlook vs Notes war was raging, Microsoft decided to hold its Outlook conference in Boston, which also happened to be the stopping ground of Lotus, maker of Notes. Lotus hired a fleet of vans embossed with its logo to drive round and around the Microsoft exhibition to show the Redmond boys it wasn’t going to take such provocation Sep 22 19:39
schestowitz lying down. Juvenile but amusing.” Sep 22 19:39
schestowitz http://community.zdnet.co.uk/blog/0,10000… Sep 22 19:39
_Doug Same with the PS2 launch .. Sep 22 19:40
schestowitz WTF… that’s how Microsoft explains OSS, eh? Sep 22 19:40
schestowitz “proprietary software is binary code that may or may not disable the PC and spy on the user for $Vendor” Sep 22 19:41
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schestowitz Yes, that too. Sep 22 19:41
schestowitz http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/6485483.stm Sep 22 19:41
schestowitz “Microsoft crashes Sony PS3 launch [...] In both London and France Microsoft mounted publicity stunts to rub some of the gloss off Sony’s launch events.” Sep 22 19:42
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AVRS2 http://www.fips.ru/cdfi/fips.dll?key=NYWXIPYEOZLW&a… Sep 22 19:47
AVRS2 Might be an OOXML patent. Sep 22 19:47
AVRS2 “Methods and systems for document format”. Describes XML stuff. Sep 22 19:48
AVRS2 *document markup Sep 22 19:48
schestowitz Could be. Sep 22 19:48
AVRS2 Filed 2006138030, published 2008.05.10. Sep 22 19:49
schestowitz They just get loads of ‘barriers’ (AKA patents) and whatever fits the bill or overlaps somehow can be used to scare folks into cross-licsnsing with cash stream/revenue Sep 22 19:49
schestowitz Submarine. Sep 22 19:49
schestowitz File now, let ISO worry later. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Submarine_patent Sep 22 19:49
_Doug Open Source makes historic UK breakthrough .. Sep 22 19:50
_Doug http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2008/09/… Sep 22 19:50
schestowitz So weird. Sep 22 19:50
schestowitz Sirius slammed BECTA like nobody’s business. Sep 22 19:50
schestowitz Maybe they threatened with a EU complaint, so BECTA ‘came through’ Sep 22 19:50
_Doug “Jill Henry from of Novell UK confirmed her outfit had also won a place on the framework” Sep 22 19:50
schestowitz Novell UK. Microsoft might cheer. Sep 22 19:51
schestowitz Vista so-loo-shens Sep 22 19:51
schestowitz with ‘open source’ OOXML Sep 22 19:51
schestowitz http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ne… Sep 22 19:51
schestowitz “Microsoft licensing switch pleases Becta …Becta hails Microsoft progress” Sep 22 19:52
schestowitz http://news.zdnet.co.uk/i/z5/illo/nw/lead… Sep 22 19:52
_Doug “Norkom will work with IBM to deliver new financial crime and compliance (FCC) software solutions to the world’s leading financial institutions.” Sep 22 19:55
_Doug http://www.siliconrepublic.com/news/article/114… Sep 22 19:55
schestowitz Good luck with 320 million zombies out there. Sep 22 19:56
_Doug :) Sep 22 19:57
_Doug but they are at least ‘compliant’ zombies :) Sep 22 19:57
schestowitz http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/compu… http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/ar… Sep 22 19:57
_Doug back in ten .. Sep 22 19:57
schestowitz ‘compliant’ zombie… *LOL* like “Microsoft Works” Sep 22 19:58
schestowitz I’ve just found this old gem: http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.os2.advoca… I’ve asked someone if she happens to know if Microsoft still does this. Let’s wait and see. Blast from the past? We shall see… Sep 22 20:07
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schestowitz trmanco: http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-news-59/a-n… Sep 22 20:16
trmanco gee Sep 22 20:18
trmanco why did it have to be hosted on one of those free forum hosts Sep 22 20:19
schestowitz I don’t know. I just found it as I went along catching up. Lots of good news today. Not so good for VMware, which is probably going to make things nasty. Sep 22 20:20
trmanco it would be nice to have sidux-pt.org or something like that Sep 22 20:21
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trmanco or a free .co.cc domain looks more professional than the free forum sub domain Sep 22 20:21
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schestowitz I mailed Mary Jo Foley about it. She reckons Microsoft wants to ruin VMware and not GNU/Linux, but she should realise that they want to block GNU/Linux /VIA/ Hyper-vell. Sep 22 20:22
trmanco but it’s always nice to see that portuguese people are interested in the Linux-Sidux distro Sep 22 20:22
schestowitz Also she posted this: http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=1599  The way I read it, Ballmer gives himself an excuse to leave the company early. Microsoft approved going into debt last night. Sep 22 20:23
trmanco doesn’t vmware use one module from the Linux kernel? Sep 22 20:23
schestowitz YEs. Sep 22 20:23
trmanco vm-something I think Sep 22 20:23
schestowitz But that doesn’t matter much. If it became Free software, Microsoft would still lie and bundle. Sep 22 20:23
trmanco we can never trust that company Sep 22 20:24
schestowitz http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1124… Sep 22 20:24
schestowitz “Some of these competitors have in the past and may in the future take advantage of their existing relationships to engage in business practices that make our products less attractive to our end users. For example, Microsoft has implemented distribution arrangements with x86 system vendors and independent software vendors, or ISVs, related to certain of their operating systems that only permit the use of Microsoft’s virtualizatio Sep 22 20:24
schestowitz n format and do not allow the use of our corresponding format.” Sep 22 20:24
schestowitz “Microsoft has also implemented pricing policies that require customers to pay additional license fees based on certain uses of virtualization technology. These distribution and licensing restrictions, as well as other business practices that may be adopted in the future by our competitors, could materially impact our prospects regardless of the merits of our products.” Sep 22 20:24
schestowitz AVRS2 might appreciate this: “Wikipedia, the notorious…” http://www.independent.co.uk/news/media/comment/andrew…       Notorious? Sep 22 20:27
jose vmware stock is priced high and this is just the excuse needed to have it fall to a manageable level that “stockholders” will find more attractive. ..oh, yes, vmw still has much further to drop. Sep 22 20:28
AVRS2 schestowitz: edit?.. that’s if another quack publishes it Sep 22 20:29
schestowitz Edit the Independent article. Correct if. Oh wait, you can’t.. Sep 22 20:29
AVRS2 heh Sep 22 20:30
schestowitz Not even comments or chat. It’s carved on a rock. Wikipedia is notorious. Deal with it! Sep 22 20:30
trmanco http://dustinkirkland.wordpress.com/2008/09/18… Sep 22 20:30
schestowitz Britannica is your God. Sep 22 20:31
schestowitz trmanco: Shuttleworth’s friend seem to be defending him cblindly. Sep 22 20:31
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schestowitz Same with the codecs where I don’t agree with Canonical. it’s the patch thing that’s deceiving though. Sep 22 20:31
schestowitz A lot of people are happily giving Ubuntu/Canonical flak for distributing GPL software very widely, but it’s OK with them that Canonical sells proprietary software, patents, and MS codecs. Sep 22 20:33
AVRS2 http://www.wipo.int/pctdb/en/wo.jsp?wo=2005110750 — the original US/WIPO version of that Russian patent. Sep 22 20:37
schestowitz Now I know what Microsoft folks do all day. Sep 22 20:39
schestowitz Though I commented on this about 6 months ago when I noticed Microsoft had little output. Sep 22 20:39
AVRS2 It’s too late for them to rename themselves into a “New IP company”. Sep 22 20:40
schestowitz various publications has reported that Microsoft was doing a massive operation of filing patents  (more than peers), so I realised they paused development and just acquired some monopolies instead. Sep 22 20:40
schestowitz Well, that’s the bet on a future biz model anyway. Sep 22 20:40
schestowitz This one made the front page of Free Software Daily about one hour ago: http://www.fsdaily.com/Opposition/Microso… Sep 22 20:40
schestowitz Actually, it’s funny that the top 3 items in their front page right now are from BoycottNovell. All 3./ Sep 22 20:41
AVRS2 IIRC, game rules are patented in the US? Sep 22 20:44
AVRS2 E.g. Arimaa, IIRC, is patented… the pieces are PD for promotion… Sep 22 20:45
schestowitz Solitaire too. Sep 22 20:45
AVRS2 http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/np… Sep 22 20:45
schestowitz Funny cause it’s actually playing in the background at the moment (The Carpenters) Sep 22 20:45
AVRS2 Solitaire? Sep 22 20:45
schestowitz Let me find the link Sep 22 20:46
AVRS2 hmm yeah I’ve seen it Sep 22 20:46
schestowitz Yes, big troll Goldberg walks around with it. Sep 22 20:46
AVRS2 Is it like a wheel, or is it a pretty new game? Sep 22 20:46
schestowitz http://games.slashdot.org/ar… Sep 22 20:46
jose schestowitz: speaking of reciprocal deals with companies now led by former softies, and taking into account what you quoted of ballmer leaving door open to leaving, they might be setting msft for a huge downfall. Sep 22 20:46
schestowitz http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=mozclient&am… Sep 22 20:46
schestowitz It’s freaky stuff. This troll is suing the whole world cause of this… even Digg, IIRC. Sep 22 20:47
schestowitz I wrote about it several times in Bn Sep 22 20:47
AVRS2 Oh wait, it’s Klondike. Sep 22 20:47
AVRS2 *it _is_ Klondike Sep 22 20:47
jose ms buys time today to allow more stock to be sold high while the partner wins tomorrow in court (if that means anything). Sep 22 20:47
AVRS2 AKA old Russian game “Косынка” (according to a book, at least). Sep 22 20:47
jose certainly novell and vmware are in a position to do this and benefit long term (especially novell). Sep 22 20:47
schestowitz jose: wel… Sep 22 20:47
schestowitz As Parish says, you’ll get bullied for saying so. Sep 22 20:48
trmanco the old logo of slackware is back :) Sep 22 20:48
schestowitz Either way: http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=mozclient&… Sep 22 20:48
schestowitz OOps. http://slated.org/microsoft_loses_90_bil… Sep 22 20:48
schestowitz It’s to do with market evaluation, which Ballmer openly admitted is exaggerated (what??!? Is he pushing his own stock down?) Sep 22 20:49
jose maybe it’s a game and ms just wants partners to think so. Sep 22 20:49
schestowitz The obsession with Google shows envy of a susccessful business model thatn revolves around subs and ads. Sep 22 20:49
jose you can win with derivatives and other positions, etc, gates private investments win should microsoft fail.. as an example Sep 22 20:49
schestowitz AVRS2: what’s that game? Sep 22 20:49
schestowitz trmanco: good. That was better. Sep 22 20:50
schestowitz More recognisable. Sep 22 20:50
trmanco yes it is better even tho it is old :P Sep 22 20:50
schestowitz jose: why would Mirosoft do that? Sep 22 20:50
AVRS2 Is that patent for multitasking? Sep 22 20:50
jose set up for fall or what? Sep 22 20:50
AVRS2 schestowitz: https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Kl…) Sep 22 20:50
schestowitz They have used their shill press like Motley Fool (they still do) to entrap mom-and-pops who buy the stock. Sep 22 20:51
schestowitz The whole recommendation frenzy drove up the stock. They grew a a myth Sep 22 20:51
AVRS2 I thought it was a patent on something specific usually called “solitaire”… so thought it was Windows Solitaire Sep 22 20:51
schestowitz Rememeber who’s at the seed of Microsoft: a marketing guy and a lawsyer who knew how to escape the law with bail (settlement) since he got arrest for speeding. Sep 22 20:51
AVRS2 But the cease and desist notice looks like it is about multitasking. Sep 22 20:52
jose btw, playing down his own stock can be bullish if the big investors want to pick up more of it at this price.. i know, lots of possibilities and they are conflicting. Sep 22 20:52
schestowitz The other chap is just shouting advertising, advertising, advertising. Sep 22 20:52
schestowitz http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTkA9L2J2gY Sep 22 20:52
schestowitz AVRS2: that Golberg dude may as well just exchange some checks with Microsoft for making this trap popularised/ubiquitous. Sep 22 20:53
schestowitz It’s such a coincidence that the song Solitaire was playing here exactly when the subject was brought up. Sep 22 20:53
schestowitz jose: gates seems to be selling as fast as he’s allowed. Sep 22 20:54
schestowitz Let me find some info I have in mind. Sep 22 20:54
jose i’m not trying to predict. note that gates would still need years to get out. msft could be in for a rise. i know this comment won’t be too popular.. it’s just a possibility. Sep 22 20:55
schestowitz OK, got it. http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.advocacy/b… Sep 22 20:55
schestowitz Scroll down to “Out of curiosity, I took the Yahoo stock link that John Bailo posted a few “ Sep 22 20:56
schestowitz “In essence according to Yahoo! Finance Edgar Online, sale was about $3.6 “ Sep 22 20:56
schestowitz billiob Sep 22 20:56
jose they have a very low p/e. if loans and what not can help, they might have a few years left of earnings growth.. again, i’m not predicting this or the opposite, but we should keep open mind about it. Sep 22 20:56
jose gates also likely knows that perhaps beyond a few years msft might die. Sep 22 20:56
schestowitz jose, they disappoointed the market in April and Aug. Sep 22 20:57
schestowitz I very much doubt that amid so much problems they’ll impress the market in Oct even if they lower expectations as they did back in Aug. Sep 22 20:57
schestowitz jose: wait… Sep 22 20:58
jose i’m not just talking about 1 quarter. Sep 22 20:58
schestowitz I’ll find you an eye-opening thing Ifound some days ago about devolving into a patent troll. Sep 22 20:58
schestowitz Okay, it might take a while to find, so I’ll unload it off memory. Sep 22 20:58
jose there are many scenarios where bgates and others might be in a position to benefit if microsoft fails, but the monopolies are so valuable that i don’t think they’d give up on ms that easily Sep 22 20:59
schestowitz Marshal Phelps (spelling?) used to work in IBM under IP, IIRC. he spoke about gates’ new obsession with patents, one that no other CEO he new to be bothering with. Sep 22 20:59
jose desperation fever perhaps. Sep 22 20:59
schestowitz Anyway, that was some years back. gates also was shown planning to block Linuxu sing patents in an E-mail he sent Ben Fathi (of Windows) Sep 22 21:00
jose i think world+dog+kitten should sell their sw patents to gates Sep 22 21:00
schestowitz The latest bit of the puzzle is the WSJ article abotu Myhrvold. Sep 22 21:00
jose then we’d have almost unanimity for changing the law to something sensible Sep 22 21:00
schestowitz Nathan Myhrvold, who was very close to Gates on the job, said that Gates needed to find some ‘solution’… something to do with patents… so Nathan left the company and found the ‘solution’, I guess. He amassed 20,000 patents. Sep 22 21:01
jose Marshal Phelps  .. it’s Michael Phellps… lol Sep 22 21:01
schestowitz jose: I saw your comment about this in Linux Today. Sep 22 21:01
schestowitz Let me check. Sep 22 21:01
jose phelps Sep 22 21:01
_Doug speculation unless you provide solid proof. just supply the facts and let us draw out own conclusions .. Sep 22 21:01
schestowitz Marshall Phelps, I think Sep 22 21:02
jose yeah, i’m repeating myself Sep 22 21:02
schestowitz _Doug: I have facts. Want me to fetrch the links? Sep 22 21:02
schestowitz I have exact quotes. Sep 22 21:02
schestowitz http://boycottnovell.com/2007/10/1… Sep 22 21:03
schestowitz “Other than Bill Gates, I don’t know of any high tech CEO that sits down to review the company’s IP portfolio,” said Phelps, who ran IBM’s IP business before joining Microsoft four years ago. Sep 22 21:03
_Doug Bluffing in Bridge .. :) Sep 22 21:03
_Doug http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=980… Sep 22 21:03
schestowitz From http://www.eetimes.com/news/latest/showArti… Sep 22 21:03
schestowitz http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122142717791833671.html Sep 22 21:03
schestowitz “Nathan Myhrvold: The genesis of this idea was when I was at Microsoft. We had a problem with patent liability. All these people were coming to sue us or demand payment. And Bill (Gates) asked me to think about if there was a solution. This is what I came up with.” Sep 22 21:04
schestowitz There are more links of this kind. We just need to accumulate more as time goes by. Sep 22 21:04
_Doug Nice solution, Nathan. I do admire your skill :) Sep 22 21:05
schestowitz The only reason for Microsoft to bluff is the regulators. Keep a low profile and all.. Sep 22 21:05
schestowitz _Doug: *wrist-slap* going personal, eh? Sep 22 21:05
schestowitz :-) Sep 22 21:06
jose the phelps’ link sure sounds like someone at ms is confident about the next stage of their company’s life.. but that can mean many things Sep 22 21:06
schestowitz Where specifically? Sep 22 21:07
schestowitz I see that Red hat is doing well (based on its books), but buybacks continue. Sep 22 21:07
*AVRS2 finally reads One patent was for a network gaming system, and one patent was for a method that allowed games to be played on a network. Sep 22 21:07
jose the quote you put up.. that sounds like someone that sees a future for ms Sep 22 21:07
schestowitz I should add that some companies are doing pretty alright. Sep 22 21:08
_Doug Nathan is a gourmet, makes a good SouciSaus or something ? Sep 22 21:08
schestowitz Recipe for sucking up money. Has he patented the IV model yet? Sep 22 21:08
schestowitz :-) Sep 22 21:08
jose lol Sep 22 21:09
schestowitz IBM did something like that, didn’t it? I can’t recall the specifics. Offshoring too. Sep 22 21:09
schestowitz Alfresco seems to be easting SharePoint’s lunch Sep 22 21:09
_Doug You can’t blame indivisuals for gaming the system, no more than you could blame Ghengis Khan for what he did. Sep 22 21:10
schestowitz since it cannot be tracked (usage), it’s hard to tell though. An article from Friday showed that Sharepoint is lots of hype, no results/substance, so it’s reassuring that many people take a free ride on FOSS. Sep 22 21:10
_Doug Although nathan could be compared to Henry the Eights Cromwell :) Sep 22 21:10
schestowitz Sirius just got a contract with education. Sep 22 21:10
jose from the phelps link: “Many companies see patents as a way to keep competitors from entering a market. A better view is looking at the company’s know how as a way to open the door to co-development deals that expand markets—even for traditional competitors.” Sep 22 21:10
schestowitz http://www.computerworlduk.com/toolbox/open-source/open-s… Sep 22 21:10
schestowitz Can’t make those “IT shops” too happy. Sep 22 21:11
*PetoKraus (n=Peter@cpc2-broo2-0-0-cust218.renf.cable.ntl.com) has left #boycottnovell (“The purpose of IRC is to…IDLE…”) Sep 22 21:11
jose ms leading the charge against freerange foss Sep 22 21:11
jose partners wanted. Sep 22 21:12
schestowitz Well, who else is fighting? Oracle targets MySQL. Sep 22 21:12
_Doug Nathan Myhrvold: “Intellectual property is the next software.” Sep 22 21:12
_Doug software of the mind ? Sep 22 21:12
schestowitz I guess that just makes Oracle worried about Sun now. Sep 22 21:12
schestowitz _Doug: did he say that? Sep 22 21:12
AVRS2 gn Sep 22 21:12
schestowitz gn, AVRS2 Sep 22 21:12
_Doug Nathan Myhrvold master of Sous-Vide .. Sep 22 21:14
_Doug http://www.wired.com/culture/lifes… Sep 22 21:14
_Doug There, so stop beating up on him Roy, else we’ll never get invited to dinner .. :) Sep 22 21:14
jose same link: “Separately, Phelps set up two years ago a small group that tries to spin out technologies Microsoft has developed but cannot immediately use. The so-called Intellectual Property Ventures group which has less than ten people has struck 30 deals so far, he said.” Sep 22 21:15
jose ms makes money while others develop products. Sep 22 21:15
jose then they steal the product/ideas anyway Sep 22 21:15
_Doug Yes he did say “Intellectual property is the next software.” Sep 22 21:15
jose ka-ching Sep 22 21:15
schestowitz What?!?! Sep 22 21:15
schestowitz That’s one for my quotes DB Sep 22 21:16
schestowitz Gt the URL? Sep 22 21:16
jose steal, buy, whatever.. with their levers they tend to get favorable deals and R&D Sep 22 21:16
_Doug wait .. Sep 22 21:16
schestowitz I trust you. Sep 22 21:17
schestowitz I’ve just added it. Sep 22 21:17
schestowitz Assuming the words are exactly the same. Sep 22 21:17
_Doug ‘and Myhrvold repeats almost as a mantra, “Intellectual property is the next software.” ‘ Sep 22 21:19
_Doug http://www.newsweek.com/id/55777/page/2 Sep 22 21:19
schestowitz Thanks. As our mutual friend says, “I want to show reader who it is.” Sep 22 21:19
_Doug It’s a bit simplistic to solely blame MS and Co, I mean where else can they go, since the desktop market is saturated .. ? Sep 22 21:20
schestowitz IBM also is a problem. Sep 22 21:20
schestowitz But IBM is not fighting FOSS. It can’t. It doesn’t need to. Sep 22 21:21
schestowitz IBM sells hardware and services. Sep 22 21:21
_Doug YOu can’t keep selling the same Windows over and over again, I mean not much improvment since NT 5 .. really :) Sep 22 21:21
schestowitz Microsoft sells Windows and Office. Sep 22 21:21
schestowitz It did try some hardware like Zune and XBox and failed badly. Same with Web services… just $billions rakes in losses. Sep 22 21:21
schestowitz *raked Sep 22 21:21
_Doug licenses, again and again, remeber the perpetual license that expires with the next iteration of Windows Sep 22 21:22
schestowitz Yes, who is it that said Bill Gates innovated /versions/? Sep 22 21:22
_Doug Bill Gates ? Sep 22 21:22
schestowitz Razor blade strategies are benevolent in comparison. At least you get something fresh each time. Sep 22 21:22
_Doug MS gamed the [eco]system only tyhey played it better than everyone else .. Sep 22 21:23
schestowitz Whereas Microsoft can forced you, despite resistance, to get something different you don’t want (Ribbon, Vista, WGA, etc.) Sep 22 21:23
jose _Doug: i’ll have to remember that excuse about capturing markets. we owned everything else so… Sep 22 21:23
jose as if there weren’t more interesting things to do in life. Sep 22 21:23
_Doug capturing markets ? Sep 22 21:24
schestowitz “Greed has no bounds,” says Microsoft. Sep 22 21:25
_Doug Is that a quote ? Sep 22 21:25
schestowitz http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2007/03/14/fee-fight-invol… Sep 22 21:25
schestowitz ‘“Human Greed Has No Bounds,” Says MSFT in Fee Dispute’ Sep 22 21:25
jose no i just said that in response to your comment about then *needing* to go elsewhere because of saturated desktop Sep 22 21:25
schestowitz Microsoft actually said it about others. Kettle… black.. pot. Sep 22 21:25
jose everyone always has to go somewhere else. Sep 22 21:26
schestowitz Yes, Ballmer spoke about this recently. Sep 22 21:26
schestowitz Wait, I have an ogg Sep 22 21:26
_Doug corrected: “This is grossly excessive by any measure, and truly proves the maxim that lawyers greed has no bounds,” Sep 22 21:26
schestowitz I put the video here: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/09/0… Sep 22 21:27
schestowitz Towards the end he explains that they need to move to other areas. Sep 22 21:27
schestowitz _Doug: well, isn’t Microsoft mainly lawyers and marketers on the front which matters? Sep 22 21:27
schestowitz It was created by a lawyer and marketer. Sep 22 21:28
schestowitz The engineer (Allen) left Sep 22 21:28
_Doug The current situation is like the early days of television, only the tube makers get to dictate to the tv set manufacturers what programs they can show. Dictate to the tv stations what hardware they can use and eventually dictate to them what programs to make .. Sep 22 21:28
_Doug They also patent RF  transmission  .. :) Sep 22 21:29
_Doug ALL forms of RM transmission :] Sep 22 21:29
_Doug ALL forms of RF transmission :] Sep 22 21:29
_Doug It’s an insane situation .. Sep 22 21:30
schestowitz Everything needs to be owned by something/one. Sep 22 21:30
schestowitz Except axioms like 1+1=2 Sep 22 21:30
schestowitz Donote a patent to hungry children today, Sep 22 21:31
_Doug But, as I said, where are the big ‘innovators’ to go, where’s the new markets ? Sep 22 21:31
schestowitz OPPC = One Patent Per Child Sep 22 21:31
_Doug open source seeds cause world hunger :) Sep 22 21:31
MinceR One Shackle Per Child Sep 22 21:32
_Doug GM Crops to Fight World Hunger: A Myth? Sep 22 21:33
_Doug http://www.gm.org/?p=53 Sep 22 21:33
trmanco ever heard of claranet?? Sep 22 21:33
schestowitz Buy a shackle, give one free Sep 22 21:33
trmanco any relations with trolls or something Sep 22 21:34
trmanco ? Sep 22 21:34
schestowitz heard of it Sep 22 21:34
trmanco and Sep 22 21:34
schestowitz isn’t that Brad Templeton? Sep 22 21:34
schestowitz Let me check Sep 22 21:34
trmanco ok Sep 22 21:34
schestowitz of EFF Sep 22 21:34
_Doug Hunger in Africa blamed on western rejection of GM food .. Sep 22 21:35
_Doug http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment… Sep 22 21:35
schestowitz No, it’s ClariNet Sep 22 21:35
_Doug I thought it was all the guns we sold them ? Sep 22 21:35
schestowitz http://www.templetons.com/brad/#clarinet Sep 22 21:35
schestowitz I used to read his blog. Nice stuff on his site… good multi-head wallpapers Sep 22 21:35
_Doug So schestowitz, what is the alternative to an Intellectual Property type economy ? Sep 22 21:37
schestowitz Look at the bright side, _Doug. Less omissions and deforestation. Sep 22 21:37
schestowitz What Stallman laid as a visiion. Sep 22 21:37
trmanco ok thanks Sep 22 21:37
schestowitz Software as free as the air we breathe in the sense that we chape it. Sep 22 21:38
schestowitz The IT profession then revolves around customising, architecture, etc. Sep 22 21:38
_Doug Templeton: sounds like a commie :o Sep 22 21:38
schestowitz If there’s no money in FOSS, explain this from today’s news: http://www.computerweekly.com/Articles/200… Sep 22 21:39
schestowitz “Linux systems administrators earn £30,000 to £45,000.” Sep 22 21:39
_Doug Lets bring back the cold war, at lest then we could all hate a common enemy ! Sep 22 21:39
schestowitz The matter of fact is that software requires just tweaks, evolution. it’s like music, even art. Music you can’t put in a box, unlike a drawing. Sep 22 21:39
schestowitz But in Xerox age, art and photography too are losing value, but it’s a good thing. Where would Google be if it were not for vast amounts of free  (to acces) info?\ Sep 22 21:40
_Doug Exactly, after version 111, there’s no real need to upgrade .. Sep 22 21:40
schestowitz Pay the library for some silly card, then walk in, ‘rent’ books… no centralisation, no search, no collaboration. Sep 22 21:41
schestowitz _Doug: he might be. A regular attendant of Burning Man, mind  you… Sep 22 21:41
schestowitz Same as Schmidt. *LOL* Sep 22 21:42
_Doug Now, we get a silly card that can be cross-referenced with our browsing habits .. Sep 22 21:42
schestowitz Phorm… Sep 22 21:43
schestowitz See these: http://www.itwire.com/content/view/20759/1054/ http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/09/2… Sep 22 21:43
_Doug Burning Man: who me ? Sep 22 21:43
schestowitz I’ll rant about it later on. The EU Commission might step up to confront Brown and the cabinet of spies. Sep 22 21:44
schestowitz If I were to put “paranoid” hat on, I’d say that the govt’ is intrested because they profile people, just like in China. This makes it very easy for the govt’ to quickly compile a list of suspects and dangerous men. Sep 22 21:44
_Doug schestowitz, what is NAthan and Bill to do if they can’t sell ‘Intellectual Property’ ? I’m sure they are interested in the reply .. Sep 22 21:45
schestowitz Since Phorm does all the profiling algos, it doesn’t cost the MI5 a dime. They can use warrants to make snoops, just as the spooks in the US (for a fact) do with Google’s datacentres and some others. In the UK, there was half a million such requests last year. Sep 22 21:45
schestowitz _Doug: businesses rise and fall. Sep 22 21:46
schestowitz IBM, then Microsoft, then… maybe Google. Sep 22 21:46
schestowitz People have shown some charts where these 3 overlap. Google is allowed to gain tremendous power… over information, not just tools. Sep 22 21:46
jose _Doug: well wasn’t bill giving away his money (lol) Sep 22 21:47
schestowitz To whom? BP? Sep 22 21:47
_Doug Time to go .. Sep 22 21:47
jose people get highs on different things. Sep 22 21:47
jose i’ll be leaving soon too i think Sep 22 21:48
_Doug Try and keep on topic tomorrow .. Sep 22 21:48
_Doug And Bil and Nathan are very nice and give lots of money to charity (how about a grand here billg) Sep 22 21:48
*_Doug has quit (“http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client”) Sep 22 21:48
schestowitz *LOL* Sep 22 21:49
schestowitz Well, he said stuff in private. Sep 22 21:49
schestowitz Now that he’s gone I’ll ‘leak’ it. :-D Sep 22 21:49
schestowitz <_Doug> Talking of MS finances in the current climate is counter productive .. Sep 22 21:49
schestowitz <_Doug> Especially in this forum .. Sep 22 21:49
schestowitz <_Doug> It make you sound like a member of the anti_Microsoft Linux Taliban, better to come across as all sweatness and light .. Sep 22 21:49
schestowitz <_Doug> sweetness Sep 22 21:49
schestowitz <_Doug> No one want to hear bad financial news right now. Sep 22 21:49
schestowitz <_Doug> If MS tanks, it’ll take the rest of the IT industry with it .. Sep 22 21:49
schestowitz <_Doug> This isn’t COLA, raise the tone a little .. Sep 22 21:49
MinceR m$ can’t harm the IT industry any more by tanking than it already has by doing what it does. Sep 22 21:50
*trmanco has quit (“I just hit the close button :)”) Sep 22 21:51
schestowitz Yes, I thought so too. Sep 22 21:52
schestowitz Well, the way the pyramid works, no matter what happens to Microsoft, some former VPs and presidents remain super-wealthy. Sep 22 21:53
jose not sure where _Doug got his information that IT would tank.. proba from the same place he heard billg was nice ..\ Sep 22 21:53
schestowitz They pull from the system what they can. MSFT is just the grain, the factory. As long as the SEC stays away, their fortune stays safe. Sep 22 21:53
schestowitz jose: I think ti’s GL that had him influence. cj, who is in this channel, is a Microsoft employees. Sep 22 21:54
schestowitz *employee. Some time ago he used the “gates” charity” song against me, trying to discredit me for not swallowing the words of the Gates Fundation’s [sic] PR dept., e.g. former head’s husband planting articles in Time. Sep 22 21:55
schestowitz It’s also used extensively for sentimental blackmail. Sep 22 21:56
jose branding  ms needs the help  more so as people get clued in Sep 22 21:57
schestowitz Lookie here: http://commandline.org.uk/python/2008/sep/22/ohloh-and-pop… Sep 22 22:01
schestowitz Former Microsoft employees enter FOSS world, then publish ‘studies’ about C# beating everything. Sep 22 22:01
jose ms will always have existing examples to point to to “justify” their current moves. it’s just a style of living. gotta do something with your life i guess. i don’t doubt some softies have had difficult or neglected childhoods.. Sep 22 22:02
schestowitz Wow! What a surprise. Microsoft employees promoting Microsoft’s agenda without anyone realising where they come from? Either way, I left a comment. That’s what I call “corporate poison”. They also push FOSS developers to go for Windows. Sep 22 22:02
*PetoKraus (n=Peter@cpc2-broo2-0-0-cust218.renf.cable.ntl.com) has joined #boycottnovell Sep 22 22:02
jose quality sw is the most important things is what they try to accomplish through hook or crook or whateve ris the saying (ends justifies means) Sep 22 22:03
schestowitz To some people, money trumps lots of things including quality Sep 22 22:03
schestowitz .Just watch those MS-’approved’ IDC figures that count O/S success in terms of revenue, not units. Sep 22 22:04
jose well, they don’t always achieve quality, but that is what they sell, that they are the epitome of quality Sep 22 22:04
jose savings Sep 22 22:04
jose etc Sep 22 22:04
jose i’ll be leaving soon Sep 22 22:05
schestowitz :-( Sep 22 22:05
jose the talkers are dropping like flies Sep 22 22:07
schestowitz *LOL* Well, that’s not a problem. Sep 22 22:09
*jose has quit (“Leaving”) Sep 22 22:17
*pombat42 (n=pombat42@ool-182dda9f.dyn.optonline.net) has left #boycottnovell (“Leaving”) Sep 22 22:48
*tommyd has quit () Sep 22 23:01
*PetoKraus has quit (“The purpose of IRC is to…IDLE…”) Sep 22 23:18
*PetoKraus (n=Peter@cpc2-broo2-0-0-cust218.renf.cable.ntl.com) has joined #boycottnovell Sep 22 23:31
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