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11.20.08

IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: November 19th, 2008 – Part 1

Posted in IRC Logs at 6:39 am by Dr. Roy Schestowitz

GNOME Gedit

Enter the IRC channel now

MinceR gn Nov 19 00:18
schestowitz Back atcha Nov 19 00:18
schestowitz Eek. Mistakenly promoting Mono/Novell stuff… http://ryanorser.com/?p=655 Nov 19 00:29
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yuhong BTW, what about DotGNU as an alternative to Mono? Nov 19 00:32
yuhong Would it be better? Nov 19 00:32
schestowitz Eric Lai was offended… “And if Boycott Novell is so prescient, then why did it call ClickStream a  “small and obscure company which is located in Asia.” I know a lot of Asians attend UC Berkeley,” http://blogs.computerworld.com/ano… Nov 19 00:33
schestowitz Hey, yuhong. Nov 19 00:33
yuhong Because there aren’t much on DotGNU on Boycott Novell. Nov 19 00:34
yuhong I will say it again. Nov 19 00:35
yuhong >BTW, what about DotGNU as an alternative to Mono? Nov 19 00:35
yuhong Would it be better? Nov 19 00:35
yuhong Because there aren’t much on DotGNU on Boycott Novell. Nov 19 00:35
schestowitz DotGNU has no IDE AKAIK Nov 19 00:36
schestowitz It’s a Wine vs Mono debate Nov 19 00:36
yuhong What about patents? Nov 19 00:37
schestowitz See http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2008/11/16/… Nov 19 00:37
schestowitz It’s discussed over there. Nov 19 00:37
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Yfrwlf .net is the best programming language evar =D Nov 19 07:38
Yfrwlf j/k Nov 19 07:38
Yfrwlf what languages are comparable to the features or whatever of .net though?  Javascript? Nov 19 07:39
Yfrwlf Haha, ads based on whatever is typed in channel, that’s awesome. Nov 19 07:40
Yfrwlf *zzz*  k bye Nov 19 07:42
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schestowitz Morning. Nov 19 08:52
AMG1 Hello. Nov 19 08:53
schestowitz What’s up, AMG1? Any news of interest? Nov 19 08:54
AMG1 Bored, just lurking. Nov 19 08:55
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Khody Nah, bored.  Just lurking. Nov 19 08:58
Khody Whats your viewpoint on Macs in general. Nov 19 08:59
schestowitz The operating system is solid, but it preserves the grip of non-Free software, so it’s a risk. Nov 19 09:00
Khody YOu’re a linux fan, correct. Nov 19 09:00
schestowitz It’s broader than just Linux. Nov 19 09:00
Khody Well basicaly it seems, freeware unix based OS’s? Nov 19 09:01
schestowitz There’s also the philosophy, which I was less aware of in the past. Nov 19 09:04
Khody What’s the philosophy? Nov 19 09:05
schestowitz It extends not only to licensing of software, but also to copyrights and social issues. Nov 19 09:08
Khody Social issues? Please explain Nov 19 09:09
schestowitz There are examples of this: Wikipedia is one. It creates a culture of participation, not monopolisation (producer-consumer) Nov 19 09:13
Khody Same could be said about sites like myspace. Nov 19 09:16
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schestowitz Yes, the concepts of so-called Web 2.0 are similar. That was just one example. Nov 19 09:18
Khody How does that fall back to non-Free software, I’m not making the connection. Nov 19 09:20
schestowitz It typically restricts feedback and involvement by ‘consumers’ Nov 19 09:21
Khody There’s a reason most consumers should not be involved, the interenet is not a communist regime being one of them.  Another is the majority of people are stupid and their involvement tends to make things worse. Nov 19 09:22
Khody schestowit: It typically restricts feedback and involvement by ‘consumers’ Nov 19 09:23
Khody schestowit: It typically restricts feedback and involvement by ‘consumers’ Nov 19 09:23
Khody sorry, dont know what happened their Nov 19 09:23
schestowitz Most projects have moderators or ‘commiters’. Nov 19 09:25
Khody which restricts the involvement of the consumers!  Same thing as non-Freeware Nov 19 09:25
schestowitz They can fork. Nov 19 09:27
Khody Whats that mean. Nov 19 09:27
schestowitz Not the same as mainline Nov 19 09:27
schestowitz They can take the program or article, gain ownership and do with they like to it. Nov 19 09:28
Khody OSX licensing is pretty loose.  They allow you to do a lot to it.  Main caluses in their licensing is to prevent you from distributing it as a whole. Nov 19 09:30
schestowitz Or even passing it to non-Apple hardware Nov 19 09:33
Khody good point Nov 19 09:34
MinceR geekings Nov 19 09:34
Khody no u Nov 19 09:35
MinceR yes me Nov 19 09:35
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schestowitz Apple marvels: Apple Adds HDCP To New Laptops; Piracy Continues, Legit Users Get Annoyed < http://techdirt.com/articles/2… > Nov 19 10:28
schestowitz This is what scared the Americans… China turning them to their ‘slaves’……… http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/brea… ( Chinese Automakers May Buy GM and Chrysler ) Nov 19 10:35
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Guest27182 Publication of ISO/IEC 29500:2008, Information technology – Office Open XML formats  http://www.iso.org/iso/pressrelease… Nov 19 12:01
schestowitz Thanks. Nov 19 12:03
Guest27182 hello ! Nov 19 12:03
schestowitz Benjamin Henrion, FFII, yesterday: “ISO is dead for software standards. Do you need an official funeral?” Nov 19 12:04
schestowitz We can make arrangements in BN. :-) Nov 19 12:04
schestowitz Who will write the eulogy? Nov 19 12:04
Guest27182 not me Nov 19 12:06
schestowitz I’ll do it in a moment then. Nov 19 12:07
Guest27182 good bye ! Nov 19 12:10
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seller_liar http://br-linux.org/2008/novell-prom… Nov 19 12:14
seller_liar novell tries to expand your ms-novell interoperability in Brazil Nov 19 12:14
schestowitz Can we have a translation? Nov 19 12:15
schestowitz They tried this in Kerala/India recently. Nov 19 12:15
schestowitz We need to rebut with information for Brazilian people. Nov 19 12:15
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seller_liar novell uses the same idea in  brazil Nov 19 12:20
seller_liar http://br-linux.org/2008/novell-promo… Nov 19 12:20
schestowitz What can we do? Nov 19 12:21
schestowitz Other than point it out, which won’t be too productive? Nov 19 12:22
seller_liar but brazil is dfferent of gandhi people Nov 19 12:22
schestowitz seller_liar: what if we made Portuguese translations of something that explains why to avoid Novell? Nov 19 12:22
schestowitz I have some polished text about it. I’ll make a FAQ soon Nov 19 12:23
seller_liar people in brazil is very sperse ,people in brazil does nothing about novell Nov 19 12:23
seller_liar the novell iniciative is very recent in brazil Nov 19 12:23
seller_liar I try to explain some ideas,but is very hard Nov 19 12:23
seller_liar for each 1 linux advocate, there are 5 or 6 m$ shill Nov 19 12:24
seller_liar trmanco can help you maybe Nov 19 12:25
schestowitz Yes, I thought about that. Nov 19 12:25
schestowitz We have some Chinese translations Nov 19 12:25
schestowitz Novell, like Microsoft, relies on people being naive. Nov 19 12:26
seller_liar Maybe trmanco,can create a blog with BoycottNovell translations Nov 19 12:27
seller_liar Maybe, I can help,but I need trmanco help Nov 19 12:27
seller_liar portugues brazilian and portuguese portugal are not too much different Nov 19 12:28
seller_liar And there are a project to internatiolization of Portuguese language Nov 19 12:29
schestowitz Maybe a couple of short explanations would do. I’ll ask him (pin trmanco) Nov 19 12:29
seller_liar yes Nov 19 12:29
schestowitz *ping trmanco Nov 19 12:29
seller_liar m$ annouces singularity to gain some free labor Nov 19 12:33
schestowitz I know. Nov 19 12:35
schestowitz OSNews is promoting all kinds of Microsoft junk, including this Nov 19 12:35
schestowitz It’s also for Microsoft to pretend it plays ball with FOSS Nov 19 12:35
seller_liar http://osnews.com/story/20547/Si… Nov 19 12:35
seller_liar The big problem is some people use the word “open source” Nov 19 12:36
seller_liar in this project Nov 19 12:36
seller_liar and singularity is not open source Nov 19 12:36
seller_liar is $hared $ource Nov 19 12:36
schestowitz *LOL* “ISO/IEC 29500:2008, Information technology – Office Open XML formats, 7 228 pages, can be purchased on a single CD-ROM for 342 Swiss francs from ISO national member institutes (see the complete list with contact details) and from ISO Central Secretariat through the ISO Store or by contacting the Marketing & Communication department (see right-hand column).” Nov 19 12:38
schestowitz Open? Nov 19 12:38
schestowitz “…can be purchased” Nov 19 12:38
seller_liar hehe and includes a EULA too Nov 19 12:38
seller_liar how much is 342 francs? Nov 19 12:39
schestowitz With the currencies bouncing like crazy I’m not sure anymore. Nov 19 12:41
schestowitz Would be over $200 I imagine. Nov 19 12:41
seller_liar High price ! Nov 19 12:44
seller_liar 100$ goes to M$! heheh Nov 19 12:44
schestowitz Bribes don’t come free. Nov 19 12:45
schestowitz They need to cover the expenses of bribing partners and all to pay committee fees and all. Nov 19 12:46
seller_liar of course Nov 19 12:46
schestowitz Closed systems… pyramid schemes.. Nov 19 12:46
seller_liar How stupid people votes in Sarkosy? Nov 19 12:47
seller_liar France is crazy Nov 19 12:47
seller_liar Did you see the actual process against shareaza ,sourceforge and others? Nov 19 12:47
seller_liar I’m very paranoid to creat a java implementation of .net Nov 19 12:49
schestowitz The French MAFIAA holds Sarko by the pockets. Nov 19 12:50
schestowitz It’s a regime of cronyism. Nov 19 12:50
schestowitz In France they’ve called it “banaaa republic,” OOXML being another example (Sarko interfered) Nov 19 12:51
seller_liar In France  is the vote  obrigatory? Nov 19 12:53
schestowitz I think only in Sweden. Do I remember right? Nov 19 12:57
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trmanco http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/blogspot/HMLi/… Nov 19 15:30
twitter 342 Swiss francs for a CD full of OOXML?  I’d rather listen to Prince. Nov 19 15:30
trmanco http://news.netcraft.com/archives/2008/11/… Nov 19 15:32
schestowitz Yay! Google can shove clocks and weather in my eyes. :-) Well, at least they open-sourced it. Nov 19 15:32
trmanco :-P Nov 19 15:32
twitter Ick, China to buy GM.  They could make it even more corrupt than it is already. Nov 19 15:33
schestowitz Apache still eats Microsoft’s lunch. Nov 19 15:34
schestowitz 1.8 compared to 1.1 Nov 19 15:34
schestowitz Remember that Google’s is an Apache fork. Nov 19 15:34
twitter That lead is going to get bigger, despite the FUD M$ spews. Nov 19 15:35
twitter WAMP is insane. Nov 19 15:35
schestowitz That’s what MS is hoping. It would be interesting to see how Apache/Linux does against Apache/Windows Nov 19 15:36
schestowitz They keynoted ApacheCon recently. RMS is against it and there’s plan to discourage people from attending such events. Nov 19 15:37
schestowitz How can one give Microsoft such a spot when it’s actively threatening to sue? Nov 19 15:37
schestowitz Re: OSCON, PJ said the same. Nov 19 15:37
schestowitz Microsoft wants the world to believe that there are two Microsofts: good cop and bad cop. Nov 19 15:38
twitter M$ does this on purpose.  It destroys the ability of their “competitors” to communicate. Nov 19 15:38
twitter They stack the con panel and shove M$ into it.  This destroys the conference.  What’s left is M$ only. Nov 19 15:38
twitter Did you see this lovely example of what the M$ world enables?  http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/11/19/d… Nov 19 15:39
schestowitz twitter: yes, Tim O’Reilly had to apologise for saying something negative about the convicted monopolist Nov 19 15:39
schestowitz [cause they sponsored his  event] Nov 19 15:39
schestowitz They gag critics this way. I saw it with Krill. Nov 19 15:39
twitter More reason to avoid M$ money. Nov 19 15:39
schestowitz As you say, people like me are already repelled slightly … wrt Apache Nov 19 15:40
schestowitz As soon as they defend Microsoft I feel like I need to get a puke pouch. Nov 19 15:40
trmanco schestowitz, “Remember that Google’s is an Apache fork.” -> I forgot to mention this when I posted the link :-P Nov 19 15:41
schestowitz People from Apache confronted us in BN. They tried to defend selling out… Microsoft is pressuring many FOSS groups, consortia and LUGs. They try to stink up the place by attending. This IRC channel too used to have ‘cj’ (for Microsoft). Nov 19 15:41
schestowitz trmanco: Microsoft will surely spin this though as Apache not doing so well. Lies, damn lies, and stats, y’know… Nov 19 15:42
twitter I’m not too worried.  When things really go wrong, projects like Debian fork and everyone runs to the better fork. Nov 19 15:42
schestowitz That’s the stories they’ll tell uncritical journos anyway. Nov 19 15:43
twitter Stinking up conferences is an old practice.  I read about them doing this to Apple. Nov 19 15:43
schestowitz Wait until Microsoft tries to plant some people inside Debian [hypothetical]. Nov 19 15:43
twitter My trolls have already bragged about being Debian contributors. Nov 19 15:43
schestowitz That would ruin it. All they need to do is seed the project with an apologist or a village fool that will open up the door… like Alex Brown in ISO. Nov 19 15:43
schestowitz Mono too is entertaining Microsoft chaps. Nov 19 15:44
twitter I ignored it because the project’s commitment to freedom and organization are too strong to let M$ fuck it over. Nov 19 15:44
schestowitz Novell did this in India. Nov 19 15:44
schestowitz Hence the protests Nov 19 15:44
schestowitz Read the remarks from Anivar.. they excluded OpenOffice.org, Red Hat, etc. It was Novell stealing the show stealthily. Nov 19 15:45
schestowitz RMS approved what the guys did. Nov 19 15:45
twitter M$ can damage Debian by setting up arguments that waste time but M$ will fail before Debian does. Nov 19 15:45
schestowitz It’s claimed that they already do this in Ubuntu Nov 19 15:45
twitter They do it everywhere. Nov 19 15:46
schestowitz Requesting Silverlight, defending Mono’s presence, etc. I’m told this by people. Nov 19 15:46
twitter “Mind Control: To control mental output you to have to control mental input.  Take control of the channels by which developers receive information, then they can only think about the things you tell them.  Thus, you control mindshare!”   http://docs.google.com/Present?do… Nov 19 15:47
twitter Everywhere developers meet, M$ will spew poison. Nov 19 15:47
schestowitz Yes, I know. Nov 19 15:47
schestowitz That’s a MUST-ATTEND talk at Microsoft. Nov 19 15:47
schestowitz The guy who wrote it said so. Nov 19 15:47
twitter M$ wastes untold billions of dollars pushing that kind of poison. Nov 19 15:48
schestowitz “Gentoo user” is one of your stalkers in BN Nov 19 15:49
schestowitz That ‘person’ never talks about the subjects at hand. Just ad hominem, IIRC. Nov 19 15:50
twitter yes.  They keep posting the same crap. Nov 19 15:50
twitter It’s spam. Nov 19 15:50
schestowitz Who goes by the Linux vanity name “Gentoo user” anyway? Nov 19 15:50
schestowitz And why Gentoo? To say “I’m hardcore 1337 *nix”? Nov 19 15:50
twitter For a while, while it was new and difficult, the M$ trolls were promoting gentoo. Nov 19 15:51
twitter There’s nothing like throwing a newbie to the something like that to sour them on the whole GNU/Linux experience for years. Nov 19 15:52
twitter The name choice may lend credibility for readers who know nothing, which is what M$ is interested in. Nov 19 15:53
twitter Anyone who knows anything quickly dumps Windows as a platform. Nov 19 15:54
twitter M$ is all about delaying that and staying relevant. Nov 19 15:54
twitter The trolls used to bug me about the name “twitter” too. Nov 19 15:56
twitter I chose it because that’s what I do to equipment to make it work well.  It turned out to be a good choice from the way the M$ people hear my posts like a gaggle of angry birds. Nov 19 15:58
twitter If Kennedy thinks someone at M$ hates him, Kennedy should watch my stuff sometimes.  :) Nov 19 16:00
trmanco Hey cool, Portuguese media promoting Ubuntu: http://ciberia.aeiou.pt/?st=10581 Nov 19 16:02
twitter M$FT, still under $20, and they will fall off the cliff with the rest of the market as the GWB administration has promised to sit on it’s hands instead of bailing out home owners.  LA Times had a good article on this. Nov 19 16:03
trmanco and some more: http://tek.sapo.pt/noticias/computadores/… | http://tek.sapo.pt/noticias/computado… Nov 19 16:06
schestowitz Microsoft promoting Gentoo, eh? I think I know why. Nov 19 16:06
schestowitz Create some more bitter experiences… Nov 19 16:06
schestowitz twitter: I can check the logs to see what ‘Gentoo user’ runs. Nov 19 16:07
schestowitz [unless there's header spoofing] Nov 19 16:07
twitter that will be interesting. Nov 19 16:07
twitter here’s the article http://www.latimes.com/business/la-… Nov 19 16:07
twitter Basically, Paulson has promised to do nothing and to ignore homeowner problems.  The stock market and economy will tank on that kind of news. Nov 19 16:08
schestowitz Hehe. Nov 19 16:10
schestowitz I just realised that Microsoft employed Gentoo’s founder. Take that thought further… Nov 19 16:10
schestowitz [sarcasm] What if Microsoft created and promoted the most difficult and frustrating Linux, then promoted it? Nov 19 16:11
twitter That may have happened but it backfired. Nov 19 16:11
twitter I have yet to try it out but I keep hearing good things about it and that people actually use it. Nov 19 16:13
twitter I like the Debian way better because most people only want to tweak one or two programs at a time. Nov 19 16:13
schestowitz Ha! Nov 19 16:15
schestowitz This is funny. Nov 19 16:15
schestowitz Gentoio user in November: Nov 19 16:16
schestowitz ┌─(roy@localhost Wed, 19 Nov 08)─——————————— —————————─(/home/roy/Desktop)────┐ Nov 19 16:16
schestowitz └─(16:12 $)─> gunzip bo Nov 19 16:16
schestowitz boycottnovell.com-Nov-2008.gz       boycottnovell.com-Nov-2008.gz.part Nov 19 16:16
schestowitz ┌─(roy@localhost Wed, 19 Nov 08)─——————————— —————————─(/home/roy/Desktop)────┐ Nov 19 16:16
schestowitz └─(16:12 $)─> gunzip boycottnovell.com-Nov-2008.gz Nov 19 16:16
schestowitz ┌─(roy@localhost Wed, 19 Nov 08)─—————————— ——————————─(/home/roy/Desktop)────┐ Nov 19 16:16
schestowitz └─(16:14 $)─> grep 12.10.219.36 boycottnovell.com-Nov-2008 Nov 19 16:16
schestowitz 12.10.219.36 – - [03/Nov/2008:12:49:47 -0500] “GET /wp-content/themes/ocadia/sty Nov 19 16:16
schestowitz le.css HTTP/1.0″ 200 8903 “http://boycottnovell.com/category/irc-logs/” “Mozilla Nov 19 16:16
schestowitz .0.17″ Nov 19 16:16
schestowitz 12.10.219.36 – - [03/Nov/2008:12:49:47 -0500] “GET /category/irc-logs/ HTTP/1.0″ Nov 19 16:16
schestowitz 200 69745 “-” “Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.8.1.17) Gec Nov 19 16:16
schestowitz ko/20080829 Firefox/2.0.0.17″ Nov 19 16:16
schestowitz 12.10.219.36 – - [03/Nov/2008:12:49:51 -0500] “GET /wp-content/uploads/2008/11/9 Nov 19 16:16
schestowitz 35815___mine__.jpg HTTP/1.0″ 200 17438 “http://boycottnovell.com/” “Mozilla/5.0 Nov 19 16:16
schestowitz (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.8.1.17) Gecko/20080829 Firefox/2.0.0.17 Nov 19 16:16
schestowitz Nov 19 16:16
schestowitz 12.10.219.36 – - [03/Nov/2008:12:49:51 -0500] “GET /wp-content/uploads/2008/11/9 Nov 19 16:16
schestowitz 52151_abraham_lincoln.jpg HTTP/1.0″ 200 12788 “http://boycottnovell.com/” “Mozil Nov 19 16:16
schestowitz la/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.8.1.17) Gecko/20080829 Firefox/2 Nov 19 16:16
schestowitz .0.0.17″ Nov 19 16:16
schestowitz 12.10.219.36 – - [03/Nov/2008:12:49:51 -0500] “GET / HTTP/1.0″ 200 99315 “http:/ Nov 19 16:16
schestowitz en-US; rv:1.8.1.17) Gecko/20080829 Firefox/2.0.0.17″ Nov 19 16:16
schestowitz 12.10.219.36 – - [03/Nov/2008:12:49:51 -0500] “GET /wp-content/uploads/2008/11/j Nov 19 16:16
schestowitz onathan_20zuck.jpg HTTP/1.0″ 200 96877 “http://boycottnovell.com/” “Mozilla/5.0 Nov 19 16:16
schestowitz (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.8.1.17) Gecko/20080829 Firefox/2.0.0.17 Nov 19 16:16
schestowitz Nov 19 16:16
schestowitz 12.10.219.36 – - [03/Nov/2008:12:49:52 -0500] “GET /wp-content/uploads/2008/11/1 Nov 19 16:16
schestowitz 016609_laundry.jpg HTTP/1.0″ 200 9346 “http://boycottnovell.com/” “Mozilla/5.0 ( Nov 19 16:16
schestowitz Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.8.1.17 Nov 19 16:16
schestowitz That’s just a portion. Nov 19 16:16
schestowitz It’s always Windows. Nov 19 16:16
schestowitz Seems like your stalker “Gentoo user” has not much to do with GNU/Linux at all. Nov 19 16:17
schestowitz He came with this IP address several times this month. Nov 19 16:17
schestowitz I assume it’s a daily routine because there are gaps in the logs (probably dynamic IP) Nov 19 16:18
trmanco http://dag.wieers.com/blog/centos… Nov 19 16:23
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schestowitz _doug: we found some funny bizniz Nov 19 16:27
twitter ha ha. Nov 19 16:30
twitter Just another PR drone with talking points. Nov 19 16:31
twitter [s]talking points Nov 19 16:31
_doug where ? Nov 19 16:32
schestowitz I’ll do a post, _doug. One minute Nov 19 16:32
twitter M$ probably demands that kind of control over their PR people because of the damage they could do if they ever had a change of heart. Nov 19 16:32
twitter M$ must keep iron fisted control over all communications to that kind of scum. Nov 19 16:33
twitter Funny how that leads them to the most porous OS on Earth. Nov 19 16:33
twitter but they would not want to have a Kennedy incident where the Exchange recall notice was just more incrimination Nov 19 16:34
_doug kennedy incident ? Nov 19 16:36
twitter In more interesting news, M$FT is flirting with another 52 week low, only 11 cents to go and it’s falling like a rock. Nov 19 16:36
schestowitz OK, done. It’s in FP now. Nov 19 16:37
twitter Kennedy was invited to a conference then un invited.  W.E. tried to hide the univite by recalling the invite.  Kennedy’s mail server was not Exchange, so the emailed recall notice just sat there as another embarrassment Nov 19 16:38
schestowitz _doug: not John. Nov 19 16:38
schestowitz twitter beat me to it. Nov 19 16:38
_doug ahh . I recall …. Nov 19 16:38
schestowitz Wait, twitter. Nov 19 16:38
schestowitz Was W-E behind it? Nov 19 16:38
schestowitz I didn’t know that. Nov 19 16:38
schestowitz Edelman was behind the first Great Laptop Bribe. Nov 19 16:39
schestowitz re: “Gentoo user”: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/11/19/tr… Nov 19 16:39
twitter Yes, they did the invites.  It was in Kennedy’s little hissy fit. Nov 19 16:39
schestowitz Ah… wait.. I’ll write about it then. Nov 19 16:40
MinceR 171900 <@schestowitz> [sarcasm] What if Microsoft created and promoted the most difficult and frustrating Linux, then promoted it? Nov 19 16:42
MinceR they’re already doing it Nov 19 16:42
MinceR it’s called suse. Nov 19 16:42
trmanco http://torrentfreak.com/record-labels-to-su… Nov 19 16:43
trmanco this is just stupid Nov 19 16:43
_doug What exactly is “Gentoo user” tryign to do ? Nov 19 16:43
twitter Do anyone have a link to the CW article where he complains?  I’d like to link to it myself. Nov 19 16:43
twitter Gentoo user is a twitter stalkier Nov 19 16:43
_doug What’s all the “le.css HTTP/1.0? 200 8903″ stuff ? Nov 19 16:44
_doug He’s Wgetting on the IRC logs ? Nov 19 16:44
*schestowitz doing a quick post about W-E Nov 19 16:44
schestowitz Naming the crooks and cronies is important for future reference. Nov 19 16:45
twitter here we go, http://weblog.infoworld.com/enterprisedesktop… Nov 19 16:48
twitter ” Oct. 3, 2008 –- I receive an e-mail from Julie McCormick at Waggener Edstrom in which she extends a “special save-the-date” invitation to attend a “unique, invitation-only” event being hosted by the Windows Client team. She labels the subject matter as “confidential”” Nov 19 16:49
twitter ” Oct. 8, 2008 –- I receive a mysterious “recall” notice in my Outlook Inbox from this same Julie McCormick. Apparently, she’s trying to “unsend” the aforementioned invitation e-mail. Fortunately, I don’t use Exchange Server`” Nov 19 16:50
schestowitz thanks. Nov 19 16:50
schestowitz I’ll add it. It’s almost done. Nov 19 16:50
twitter :)  glad to help. Nov 19 16:51
*Omar87 (n=omar@79.173.254.136) has joined #boycottnovell Nov 19 16:58
Omar87 schestowitz: There’s small typo in the latest post at Boycottnovell. Nov 19 17:01
Omar87 “Mind Control: To control mental output you ((to)) have to control mental input. Take control of the channels by which developers receive information, then they can only think about the things you tell them. Thus, you control mindshare!” Nov 19 17:01
schestowitz I’m going to flag every comment ever posted by Gentoo user. Nov 19 17:01
schestowitz Hey, Omar87 Nov 19 17:03
schestowitz Which is the typo? I’ve just looked. Nov 19 17:04
schestowitz Oh, I see now Nov 19 17:04
twitter Sorry about that, the error was in the original, I think. Nov 19 17:07
twitter Here’s Kennedy spilling the beans on the “great laptop giveaway” http://weblog.infoworld.com/enterprisedes… Nov 19 17:07
schestowitz I can see now that I go through comments (flagging them with “<font color=”#ff0000″><b>Note</b>: comment arrived from a <a href=”http://boycottnovell.com/2008/11/19/trol…” rel=”nofollow”>witch hunter that does not even use GNU/Linux</a>.</font>” ) that Gentoo User has multiple IPs Nov 19 17:07
schestowitz Witch-hunting freedom fighters is not the same as chasing shills, so… Nov 19 17:08
schestowitz Okay, all the comment are now flagged appropriately (e.g. http://boycottnovell.com/2008/09/10/irc… ). There’s no room for stalking and abuse, as opposed to politely debate. Nov 19 17:12
Omar87 schestowitz: did it ever happen that some Microsoft fanboys came to this room and started yapping about the merits of Microsoft? Nov 19 17:16
schestowitz Innocent kis.. http://boycottnovell.com/2008/11/19/wag… .. unlike W-E Nov 19 17:17
schestowitz *kid Nov 19 17:17
schestowitz Omar87: yes, it happens frequently. Nov 19 17:17
schestowitz Recent example: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/11/09…  (he was also here yesterday) Nov 19 17:18
Omar87 schestowitz: cool! Then I’ll stick around as long as possible, just in case it happens again any time soon. :-) Nov 19 17:19
schestowitz OStatic is being trolled these days with provocation in comments from “MSFT” (they trash the site) Nov 19 17:19
schestowitz The important thing is having it documented for people to learn from. Nov 19 17:19
_doug The Linux groups are totally trolled as well .. by pretend supporters .. more like monitored .. :) Nov 19 17:23
twitter thanks. Nov 19 17:23
schestowitz Slog.doc mentions trolling “newsgroups” too Nov 19 17:24
PetoKraus http://pk.gjhak.sk/?uid=112 ;) Nov 19 17:25
Omar87 Guys, isn’t funny that MSFT, which is HUGE Corporation calls an innocent community project, founded by an innocent high school geek student “A challenge”?? Nov 19 17:26
Omar87 isn’t *it* funny.. Nov 19 17:26
schestowitz It’s not just a challenge Nov 19 17:27
schestowitz Microsoft has called Linux its #1 competition. Not Apple, not Google either. Nov 19 17:27
schestowitz Microsoft ain’t so huge either. IBM is FAR bigger, for instance. Nov 19 17:27
Omar87 Actually, you can tell how much Linux is winning by counting how many times they mentioned the sentence ” *rise* to the challenge”. :) Nov 19 17:28
schestowitz Rise. Reminds me of WW Nov 19 17:29
Omar87 WW? Nov 19 17:29
schestowitz World War. Nov 19 17:29
Omar87 Yeah, that’s what I thought. :) Nov 19 17:30
schestowitz Remember what Microsoft says: “Evangelism is WAR” Nov 19 17:30
schestowitz Microsoft and Militant both starts with “Mi” ;-) Nov 19 17:30
twitter Freedom challenges their business model. Nov 19 17:30
Omar87 twitter: Exactly. Nov 19 17:30
schestowitz Business model: restrict choice so that people haven’t a choice but to buy from us. Nov 19 17:31
schestowitz Means: blackmailing OEMs, colluding with Intel, mailicious sabotage of rival du jour (e.g. Google), ignore standards and so on. Nov 19 17:31
*kentma has quit (“Leaving.”) Nov 19 17:32
twitter They even want to restrict what you think about.  Sick. Nov 19 17:32
twitter Slog on Yahoo.  I keep reading headlines about Yahoo’s stock “jumping” now that Yang quit, but I don’t see any real motion.  http://finance.google.com/finance… Nov 19 17:32
schestowitz PetoKraus: they sent you anthrax? Nov 19 17:32
PetoKraus schestowitz: almost :D Nov 19 17:33
Omar87 schestowitz: Yeah, but with Linux, it’s a totally different case, because Linux ain’t no business, it’s an entire community, regardless of the fact that some businesses benefit from it. :) Nov 19 17:33
schestowitz I got sent weird stuff too. Nov 19 17:33
schestowitz Some family from the US sending photos and articles asking for a donation. Must have cost time and money to produce and mass-send this to the UK Nov 19 17:33
_doug re: Yahoo stock, didn’t MS make it’s original offer when the the stock was in a trough ? Nov 19 17:33
schestowitz Brits are an easy target because they are renowned for being good donours. This means a good ‘success rate’(R). RoI. Nov 19 17:34
_doug I wonder who is buying the stock, now that Yang is leaving, assuming the stock ‘jump’ had anything to do with it :) Nov 19 17:34
Omar87 http://www.nasdaq.com/aspx/mostactive.aspx… Nov 19 17:38
Omar87 MSFT’s shares are 18.91, they have dropped by 0.71 (3.62%) :) Nov 19 17:40
twitter That’s the thing, _doug, there has been no “jump” Nov 19 17:43
twitter Yang explained to the SEC that no M$ was never serious about his offer. Nov 19 17:43
twitter The whole thing was a Slog, saying stupid things about Yahoo’s [fictional] eminent demise.  The whole notion of Yahoo not being able to survive on it’s own is crazy, but the Wintel press repeated the lie thousands of times. Nov 19 17:44
schestowitz If MSFT buys YHOO, it can then be left with a debt of about 20-30bn Nov 19 17:45
twitter Yahoo is huge and has a huge audience that should be easy to make money with.  It got a little harder when the US DOJ shot down Yahoo’s deal with Google. Nov 19 17:45
schestowitz I’m not sure what the worth of YHOO is at the moment, but if they buy them somewhere along the way after completing the buybacks, the loan Microsoft takes can be greater than its physical assets. Nov 19 17:46
schestowitz How much do you reckon Microsoft’s headquarters and all are worth? Nov 19 17:46
twitter Not much Nov 19 17:46
schestowitz Don’t tell me about intangible -shit- things like IP and copyrights (code, patents). Nov 19 17:46
twitter real estate is not a good business right now. Nov 19 17:46
schestowitz :-( Nov 19 17:46
schestowitz Bummer for the Vole Nov 19 17:46
schestowitz Maybe they can squeeze some gooses Nov 19 17:47
schestowitz Y’know, B[lack]SOD those PCs in China screaming for money. Nov 19 17:47
twitter They could save themselves if they knocked off all the advertising and PR stupidity. Nov 19 17:47
schestowitz One last blow before the ship sinks… Nov 19 17:47
schestowitz Kind of like SCO shooting up high when suing that Lunix thing for being ‘ownership’ of SCO Nov 19 17:48
twitter Squeezing their customers. Nov 19 17:48
schestowitz Some say it was inside-trading and stock-trading fraud Nov 19 17:48
schestowitz Pump-n-dump that is… Nov 19 17:48
twitter I think I got the Educational rip off article from here, where they got Australian old folks homes to invest heavily in M$ crap then eliminated their software “discount” price. Nov 19 17:49
schestowitz 1. Buy SCOX. 2. Make up story of rigs [sic] and riches. 3. Sell stock… 4) profit! Nov 19 17:49
schestowitz Today: “In these last eight years, I have witnessed an appalling decline in shareholder value of this extraordinary business enterprise. My personal shareholder value has been steadily destroyed both in actual and potential value.” http://www.techflash.com/microsoft/Reflec… Nov 19 17:50
twitter Squeezing the old folks, http://slashdot.org/firehose.pl?op=v… Nov 19 17:50
twitter Ick, Yahoo hit’s new 52 week low, http://finance.google.com/finance?q=… Nov 19 17:52
twitter Wow, that one is going into the M$ Death Watch. Nov 19 17:55
schestowitz URL? Nov 19 18:03
schestowitz Boy Collapses After Playing ‘World of Warcraft’ for 24 Hours < http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933… > b0rk,b0rk, b0rk (Swedish kid) Nov 19 18:03
trmanco looks like the Cray XT5 is now the worlds fastest super computer Nov 19 18:05
schestowitz Is that the Red Hat-powered one? Nov 19 18:06
schestowitz Novell lost the top spot about 4 months ago, so it did a press release to celebrate while it lasted. Nov 19 18:07
trmanco schestowitz, don’t know, but it runs some kind of Linux Nov 19 18:11
schestowitz Anti-twitter huddle: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/11/19/t… Nov 19 18:11
trmanco the IBM roadrunner runs Fedora I think, but I’m not sure about XT5 Nov 19 18:12
schestowitz It could be Fedora. Nov 19 18:12
schestowitz No, wait. I’m sure it was Red Hat… but it might not be ready yet. Nov 19 18:12
schestowitz Red Hat also made several HPC announcements recently. Nov 19 18:12
schestowitz On the mainframe, IBM promote SUSE. I think IBM plays plastic troops with Red Hat and SUSE to knock down the price. Nov 19 18:13
schestowitz I don’t like IBM. I told their VP during the weekend: “By the way, I still hold IBM partly accountable for what’s happening with Novell. I hope they can change.” Nov 19 18:14
schestowitz He said: “”I don’t understand your comment. Trust whom? You mean because Mahugh showed up at the ODF meeting? It’s better having them there where they are somewhat accountable than off by themselves doing whatever. And congratulating them on joining does not mean I trust them.”” Nov 19 18:15
schestowitz Response: “I understand that. I also remember how they fought ODF… just as they fought many things… or ‘extended’ them. There is an analogous thing here, actually. Some projects gamble on a Windows port because they could use the market share; little do they know about what will happen to APIs later. I’d ask you this: do you /trust/ Microsoft?” Nov 19 18:15
schestowitz Tell IBM to boycott Novell and see how they react. :-) :-) They funded the SUSE takover. Nov 19 18:15
schestowitz *takeover Nov 19 18:15
Omar87 schestowitz: It makes me sad every time I find another social networking site built using ASP.NET.. :( Nov 19 18:16
schestowitz There are not many of these. Maybe it’s different in Jordan. Nov 19 18:16
schestowitz LAMP is de facto choice for such sites. Nov 19 18:16
schestowitz By FAR. Nov 19 18:17
Omar87 Orkut and Myspace are built in ASP.NET. Nov 19 18:18
Omar87 Let alone Facebook that although it’s built in PHP, it still serves M$ in a way or another. Nov 19 18:18
schestowitz BoycottNovell in Techworld: http://www.techworld.com.au/article/26… Nov 19 18:19
*modoe (i=55b73092@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-ca539bdf80a0ef3a) has joined #boycottnovell Nov 19 18:30
modoe hi Nov 19 18:30
schestowitz Hey there. What’s up? Nov 19 18:30
*modoe has quit (Client Quit) Nov 19 18:30
*Omar87 has quit (Remote closed the connection) Nov 19 18:36
schestowitz These comments are largely positive: http://www.computerworld.com/comm… Nov 19 18:38
twitter M$ bought a 15% stake in Facebook.  I don’t know if they will be allowed to monkey with the way the site works but I won’t put personal information into it. Nov 19 18:45
schestowitz Whenever I see articles from the MSBBC is smells like an advert: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/techn… ( ” Microsoft to offer free security”) Nov 19 18:52
schestowitz Linux offers “free security” too (libre even). It’s baked in. Nov 19 18:52
schestowitz Censorship attempts: “Paul Flynn was told to remove posts including ones calling ex-Labour minister Peter Hain a “shapeshifter” and Lib Dem MP Lembit Opik a “clown”.” < http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_p… > Nov 19 18:54
schestowitz http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/11/1… “BT has banned all future discussion of Phorm and its “WebWise” targeted advertising product on its customer forums, and deleted all past threads about the controversy dating back to February.” Nov 19 18:56
MinceR microsoft doesn’t realize that security isn’t an add-on feature. Nov 19 18:56
schestowitz Well, they make it seem that way, though. Nov 19 18:57
schestowitz Like “the Internet is a Blue E” Nov 19 18:57
MinceR :) Nov 19 18:57
schestowitz Windows is so fat that on mini-PCs it goes with the dying fork known as “Windows Mobile”. This is just sad: http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2008/… Nov 19 18:59
MinceR at least wm doesn’t have drive letters Nov 19 18:59
schestowitz Latest reports on pending demise of WM: http://www.australianit.news.com.au/s… http://news.zdnet.co.uk/leader/0,100000… Nov 19 18:59
schestowitz MinceR: it hardly has /anything/. It can’t evolve with the rest because it LACKS MODULARITY Nov 19 19:00
schestowitz Remember that Microsoft has just patented the modular O/S… Nov 19 19:00
schestowitz They realise that they can scale from finger sized PCs to supercomputers if they separate the modules, but they never got around to it. Nov 19 19:00
MinceR :) Nov 19 19:01
schestowitz They were going to. I heard it from a Munchkin (Erik Funkenbusch) around 2005 or 2006. Vista was such a mess (Longhorn actually) that they binned it along with the plan of modularity. Along with other things like WinFS, SOAP… Nov 19 19:03
MinceR SOAP exists independently of them Nov 19 19:04
MinceR it’s just a horribly bloated version of XMLRPC Nov 19 19:04
schestowitz “Ziff Davis, the tech/gaming media company that recently exited Chapter 11 bankruptcy, is now taking the brave but inevitable step of closing down the print version of PCMag to focus its energy on its growing PCMag online network of sites, led by flagship PCmag.com” http://www.paidcontent.org/entry/419-ziff-dav… Nov 19 19:09
schestowitz TBH, I’d rather see them deceased. ZIff/Gates is notoriously ‘Wintel press’. I should add that Microsoft was exposed asking employees to comment in sites like ZDNet. There are many stories that show the obscene level of manipulation. Nov 19 19:10
twitter Bill Gates used “security” to reward himself as a high school student on a time share. Nov 19 19:11
twitter http://ei.cs.vt.edu/~history/G… Nov 19 19:12
schestowitz Which part? Nov 19 19:13
twitter first computing experience Nov 19 19:14
schestowitz “The Computer Center Corporation’s business was beginning to suffer due to the systems weak security and the frequency that it crashed. Impressed with Gates and the other Lakeside computer addicts’ previous assaults on their computer, the Computer Center Corporation decided to hire the students to find bugs and expose weaknesses in the computer system. “ Nov 19 19:14
schestowitz This? Nov 19 19:14
twitter Better like this “In the fall of 1968 … [gates and friends] caused the system to crash several times and broke the computers security system. They even altered the files that recorded the amount of computer time they were using. … the Computer Center Corporation decided to hire the students to find bugs and expose weaknesses in the computer system. In return for the Lakeside Programming Group’s help, the Computer Center Corpor Nov 19 19:15
schestowitz This is funny: “In return for the Lakeside Programming Group’s help, the Computer Center Corporation would give them unlimited computer time [Wallace, 1992, p. 27]. The boys could not refuse.” Nov 19 19:15
schestowitz This is so familiar. Like “Microsoft makes jobs…”         [for people to clean viruses] Nov 19 19:15
schestowitz Oh, I see… so Gates had engaged in Technical sabotage long before OS/2 and DR-DOS days. Nov 19 19:16
twitter Yes, Gates broke the system to give himself time.  He then used the brokenness of the system to sell himself as the repair man.  Windows does the same thing still, it will never be fixed. Nov 19 19:16
schestowitz I didn’t know about this mischief. I’ll point this out later. Nov 19 19:17
twitter Contrast this to RMS, who did everything possible to give Everyone access to computing resources that were not being used. Nov 19 19:17
twitter Same problem, computing scarcity, very different solutions. Nov 19 19:18
twitter One was entirely selfish and continues to exploit their position for personal gain.  The other continues to help his neighbors. Nov 19 19:18
twitter “defense contractor TRW was having  trouble with a bug infested computer similar to the one at Computer Center Corporation.  TRW had  learned of the experience the two had working on the Computer Center Corporation’s system and  offered Gates and Allen jobs.  However thing would be different at TRW they would not be finding  the bugs “ Nov 19 19:19
schestowitz Thanks for pointing that out. It’s clear why the Munckins in /. are so afraid. Nov 19 19:19
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