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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: January 2nd, 2009 – Part 1

Posted in IRC Logs at 4:14 am by Dr. Roy Schestowitz


Enter the IRC channel now

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NeonFloss stealinh other peoples articles? Jan 02 00:05
schestowitz Who? Jan 02 00:06
NeonFloss nvm Jan 02 00:07
schestowitz What’s that? Jan 02 00:07
NeonFloss http://www.blogpirate.org/2008/12/31/leaked-windo… Jan 02 00:07
NeonFloss read comments Jan 02 00:07
*schestowitz looks Jan 02 00:07
NeonFloss is that meant to be copy word for word or just the idea? Jan 02 00:08
schestowitz I’m not following. Jan 02 00:08
schestowitz This is a trackback from us from IRC (yesterday) Jan 02 00:08
NeonFloss sorry bout that Jan 02 00:09
NeonFloss I am really sorry Jan 02 00:09
NeonFloss im not so good with english Jan 02 00:09
schestowitz What do you mean by “stealking”? Jan 02 00:09
schestowitz *stealing, oops Jan 02 00:09
NeonFloss lol Jan 02 00:09
NeonFloss im sorry Jan 02 00:09
NeonFloss wrong channel heh Jan 02 00:09
schestowitz OK, np Jan 02 00:09
schestowitz Heh. Jan 02 00:09
schestowitz Was that post a stolen one? Jan 02 00:09
NeonFloss thats wack Jan 02 00:10
schestowitz :-) Jan 02 00:10
schestowitz I saw some other posts about Vista7 holes. Jan 02 00:10
NeonFloss I read the bottom comment and accidently assoiciated with top one Jan 02 00:10
NeonFloss I deeply apologize Jan 02 00:10
schestowitz No, one of our reader/contribs ( trmanco  ) linked to it here. Jan 02 00:10
schestowitz No problem. :-) Jan 02 00:10
schestowitz What is the original? Jan 02 00:10
schestowitz Let me know so that I can change the linkl Jan 02 00:10
schestowitz *links Jan 02 00:11
NeonFloss I dont follow Jan 02 00:11
schestowitz I linked to it here: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/01/… Jan 02 00:11
NeonFloss thats fine Jan 02 00:11
NeonFloss I dont know Jan 02 00:11
NeonFloss im confused Jan 02 00:11
NeonFloss no problem Jan 02 00:11
NeonFloss pretend I never came here Jan 02 00:11
NeonFloss heh heh Jan 02 00:12
NeonFloss I mixed up that comment with another one Jan 02 00:12
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schestowitz Via Tor.. Jan 02 00:14
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Axz lol schestowitz ignore him Jan 02 00:19
Axz nice job on the article mate Jan 02 00:19
schestowitz Thankls. Jan 02 00:19
schestowitz I’m watching this interesting talk. The US hopes to make India a “client state” of the US to keep it away from the rising Asian revolution. Same as some other countries.. Jan 02 00:40
MinceR gn Jan 02 01:01
tessier_ Client state? Jan 02 01:07
tessier_ What rising Asian revolution? Jan 02 01:07
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schestowitz tessier: Asia (mostly China)  is likely to inherit wealth and become a superpower bigger than the US Jan 02 07:38
tessier Possibly. I would think they would have to really clean up their act to have real success. Jan 02 07:38
tessier The average person in China is still dirt poor making $2/day. Jan 02 07:38
tessier They have a very long way to go. Jan 02 07:38
schestowitz Yes, I know. Jan 02 07:38
schestowitz I’m not defending it. Jan 02 07:38
tessier But yes, they could someday exceed the US. Jan 02 07:39
schestowitz Romans… British… American… China.. Jan 02 07:39
tessier It would be quite sad if the people of the next superpower did not have freedom. Jan 02 07:39
schestowitz They never did under the US either, but it was better Jan 02 07:43
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Omar87 Hi everyone. Jan 02 08:38
Omar87 schestowitz: Do you suggest I go to china when I’m done with college? Jan 02 08:39
Omar87 schestowitz: Since, ya know, china is becoming one of the greatest nations in terms of technology and stufF? Jan 02 08:39
Omar87 stuff* Jan 02 08:39
schestowitz Hey Jan 02 08:51
schestowitz China does to humans what a commodity/generics do to drugs. Jan 02 08:52
schestowitz They devalue human labour or thought Jan 02 08:52
tessier http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-paci… Jan 02 09:01
schestowitz Thanks, interesting. Jan 02 09:10
schestowitz Foxxcon just fired 100,000 Jan 02 09:10
schestowitz MadTux Closes Its Doors < http://broadcast.oreilly.com/2009/01/madtux-… > “We regret to inform you that economic conditions have forced us to close our doors after eight years in business.” Jan 02 09:47
tessier http://www.target.com/gp/search/183-66… Jan 02 10:19
tessier Neato. Target sells pre-installed Linux computers Jan 02 10:19
tessier Wow, and the Target store just up the road from me has them in stock. Cool. Jan 02 10:20
tessier Target has a nice website. Jan 02 10:20
schestowitz I think they have sold these for a while. Jan 02 10:22
tessier Yes, they have. Months at least. Jan 02 10:22
tessier I bought mine over a year ago although that was from newegg. Jan 02 10:22
tessier Caitlyn Martin (author of that piece) negates some FUD in the comments. Jan 02 10:22
tessier @Linux Home User: The 4:1 return rate came from a statement by an MSI exec before they had sold even one netbook with Linux. Meanwhile Asus claims that there is NO higher return rate on Linux netbooks and they are the number one vendor. The 9:1 sales figure you got from our dear friends (cough) at IT Wire actually only applies to the Acer Aspire One and Acer only offers one model at the low end with Linux and makes no effort to get that Jan 02 10:22
tessier model into stores. According to Asus CEO Jerry Chen their figure is 6:4, which means 40% are Linux. The overall industry figure is 7:3. So, your wonderful piece of FUD is totally inaccurate. The Linux desktop is doing just fine in the marketplace, thankyouverymuch. Jan 02 10:22
tessier Nicely done. Jan 02 10:23
schestowitz The anti-Linux crowd links to the ITWire stuff Jan 02 10:23
schestowitz ASUS is “closely tied up with Microsoft,” it says Jan 02 10:24
schestowitz But ITWire has its share of troll writers either way Jan 02 10:24
*schestowitz does some reading on back doors… also Palladium… Trusted Computing… Intel’s back door in hardware are suspected by Shamir who is a guru in this area; never mind back doors in encryption algos (that would be Schneier). These issues will come up more in the future when Linux gets snooped on too. Jan 02 10:24
schestowitz Mainstream media should cover this stuff too Jan 02 10:24
schestowitz I’m also researching some Novell dark secrets (post will come soon). It’s a very interesting area to explore, namely the convergence of Free software and closed embedded components. The OpenBSD folks and the FSF still argue over things like firmware (does it quality of a blob?). You can achieve so much that way and the pursuit that follows FOSS is one that pertains to circuits. CAD files and ‘open-source’ thingies like Chumby aren’ Jan 02 10:25
schestowitz t enough. Jan 02 10:25
Axz Microsoft is losing his power in software when it comes to costumers security Jan 02 10:29
schestowitz Yes. “Our products just aren’t engineered for security.” http://www.infoworld.com/articles/hn/xml… Jan 02 10:30
Axz Hehe yeah nice find Jan 02 10:32
Axz Also trust in usage of Windows is critical, every time i speak to random people on IRc they ask me whats best linux distro to install Jan 02 10:33
tessier “Our products just aren’t engineered for security.” – Brian Valentine at the Jan 02 10:35
tessier Windows .Net Server developer conference Sep 2002. Jan 02 10:35
*tessier adds it to his quotes file Jan 02 10:35
schestowitz Good Jan 02 10:35
schestowitz I was only shown this 2 months ago, maybe less Jan 02 10:35
tessier hmm…that reminds me, I need to move all of my quote database to my new website. Jan 02 10:35
schestowitz Which is important Jan 02 10:35
schestowitz Mind the date Jan 02 10:35
schestowitz Later on, Microsoft brought up a different pitch Jan 02 10:35
schestowitz “All operating systems are not secure” Jan 02 10:36
schestowitz That was the new ‘party line’ Jan 02 10:36
schestowitz But it’s a fake Jan 02 10:36
Axz hehe but as i make article about last piracy takedown on the Microsoft’s statement says below: Founded in 1975, Microsoft (Nasdaq “MSFT”) is the worldwide leader in software, services and solutions that help people and businesses realize their full potential. Jan 02 10:36
Axz i mean they really need to delete this… because its trash Jan 02 10:37
schestowitz Let me find somehting Jan 02 10:38
tessier I wish there was some conclusive way to prove that it is the architecture and design methodology of Linux and not just that “nobody uses Linux so the crackers don’t care” which explains why Linux has fewer problems. Jan 02 10:38
Axz first they are not anymore worldwide leading few other company’s are, second, solution to what? since Xp they dind make any solution in software only help exploit develope faster Jan 02 10:38
schestowitz http://www.mixx.com/users/cyberphoenix “Founded in 1975, Microsoft is the worldwide leader in bribery, extortion, blackmail and customer abuse.” Jan 02 10:38
Axz lol Jan 02 10:39
Axz nice one Jan 02 10:39
tessier “Founded in 1975 Microsoft is the worldwide leader in fucking you out of your money.” Jan 02 10:39
schestowitz tessier: tell people about how many Linux servers exist on the Web Jan 02 10:39
schestowitz Linux is VERY widespread. Jan 02 10:39
tessier They don’t believe it because they can’t see it. Jan 02 10:39
Axz yeah Jan 02 10:39
schestowitz desktop != computer Jan 02 10:39
tessier Desktops are all the average person knows. Jan 02 10:39
schestowitz >“Forty percent of servers run Windows, 60 percent run Linux…” –Steve Ballmer (September 2008) Jan 02 10:39
Axz I’m proud linux users since i had my first PC thanks to my dad Jan 02 10:40
tessier And how many servers are there out there? Jan 02 10:40
tessier He must know because he knows that 60% of them run Linux, right? Jan 02 10:40
schestowitz I don’t know. Jan 02 10:40
schestowitz Microsoft has intelligence. Jan 02 10:40
schestowitz They also collect a list of ALL applications installed on ALL Windows boxes Jan 02 10:40
schestowitz These are sent periodically and they are allowed to do this (watch the EULA) Jan 02 10:40
schestowitz Vista takes this intrusion several steps further. Jan 02 10:41
schestowitz It’s a rather diabolic version Jan 02 10:41
Axz Here is very simple statics for that http://uptime.netcraft.com/perf/r… Jan 02 10:41
Axz is it me or there is lots of Linux/Unix around there :p Jan 02 10:41
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schestowitz Hey, oiaohm1 Jan 02 10:48
schestowitz Axz: especially embedded Jan 02 10:48
schestowitz In the embedded space, Linux is schooling Microsoft, whose dumping of cheap Windows hardly saved it. Jan 02 10:48
schestowitz The press hardly covers this very important fact; there are tens of billions devices made; many run Linux. Jan 02 10:49
oiaohm1 Problem for Microsoft there is a bottom value then can sell for before they lose money Jan 02 10:49
oiaohm1 Patents and paying Novell. Jan 02 10:50
oiaohm1 Linux only controls about 40 percent of the embedded market. Jan 02 10:53
oiaohm1 Major limitation is lack of rtos status. Jan 02 10:53
tessier RTOS isn’t at all important for most of what most people consider the “embedded” market these days. Jan 02 10:54
tessier The definition of embedded has changed, for better or worse. Jan 02 10:54
tessier It is better for Linux this way. The things that require RTOS do not have much customer visibility anyway. Jan 02 10:54
schestowitz oiaohm1: yes, about 40% Jan 02 10:54
tessier But cell phones and GPS navigation devices and home cablemodem routers and DVR’s etc are in peoples faces all the time. Jan 02 10:55
schestowitz RTOS is improving too Jan 02 10:55
schestowitz They got this capability improves in 2.6.27 IIRC Jan 02 10:55
schestowitz I have the references at hand. Jan 02 10:55
oiaohm1 tessier is cost of parts.  RTOS kernel can make some devices cheeper. Jan 02 10:55
schestowitz RTOS giants like Wind River move to Linux also Jan 02 10:56
oiaohm1 Skipping handling chips for stuff and using the OS it self. Jan 02 10:56
schestowitz They use the proprietary parts for added value Jan 02 10:56
schestowitz Same with LynuxWorks, which has some Linux distro whose name I can’t recall Jan 02 10:56
schestowitz Something like Lynx or puma Jan 02 10:56
oiaohm1 40 to 50 percent in the embed market is about as far as you can go without good rtos support. Jan 02 10:57
schestowitz Something from the family of cats Jan 02 10:57
oiaohm1 What is still way better than what MS holds in the embeded market what is a basicaly 0 Jan 02 10:58
oiaohm1 Just looked LynuxWorks up its BlueCat Linux Jan 02 10:59
*tessier adds a Linux Headlines RSS portlet to the Linux page of his website Jan 02 11:00
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oiaohm Just got to a more sane client. Jan 02 11:01
schestowitz BleuCat! Jan 02 11:02
schestowitz Yes, that’s the one. Jan 02 11:02
tessier sacre-bleu! Jan 02 11:03
schestowitz They always have fallbacks these RTOS brands that are known Jan 02 11:03
schestowitz Microsoft renamed its embedded space contender Jan 02 11:03
tessier What are some good Linux news rss feeds? I’ve got /. and lwn… Jan 02 11:03
schestowitz But changing names ain’t a winning strategy Jan 02 11:03
tessier Wasn’t WinCE their “embedded” OS? Jan 02 11:03
schestowitz It also offered the thing for just $3 back in 2004 (IIRC) Jan 02 11:03
schestowitz tessier: /., with all due respect, is filled with ads as ‘news’ Jan 02 11:04
tessier linuxtoday.com… Jan 02 11:04
schestowitz I dropped it after years or reading Jan 02 11:04
tessier Yeah, but the Linux only section isn’t too bad. Jan 02 11:04
schestowitz TuxMachines. Jan 02 11:04
schestowitz Hands down. Jan 02 11:04
oiaohm lynxos is lynuxworks other OS that has a Linux compadiblity layour like BSD.  2 gb memory limit on it. Jan 02 11:04
schestowitz I put a list here: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/11/12/a… Jan 02 11:04
schestowitz     * TechDirt Jan 02 11:04
schestowitz     * TuxMachines Jan 02 11:04
schestowitz     * Heise Jan 02 11:04
schestowitz     * LinuxDevices Jan 02 11:04
schestowitz     * Phoronix Jan 02 11:04
schestowitz     * Royal HeHe2-ness Jan 02 11:04
schestowitz     * Roberto Galoppini Jan 02 11:04
tessier Cool! Thanks! Jan 02 11:05
schestowitz These are the ones I trust Jan 02 11:05
schestowitz No money on the table and all… Jan 02 11:05
oiaohm Windows CE kernel functionally suxed. Jan 02 11:05
schestowitz They de-emphasize it now. Jan 02 11:06
schestowitz It lost the margins war Jan 02 11:06
oiaohm What happens when you try to cut back a OS to make a embed OS get a dog. Jan 02 11:06
schestowitz Windows is now losing this war too Jan 02 11:06
schestowitz Sub-notebooks being a major cause Jan 02 11:06
schestowitz I don’t know about servers, though. Jan 02 11:06
oiaohm Thing people forget Windows NT was at first designed for Real time work. Jan 02 11:06
schestowitz Office is getting cheap (less than GBP 100 over here, if one gets a discount) Jan 02 11:06
oiaohm Then some idiot put a non real time spinlock system in it. Jan 02 11:06
schestowitz Windows Mobile is dying Jan 02 11:07
schestowitz [say Microsoft fans] Jan 02 11:07
oiaohm Really Windows NT working as it was designed at first would be a threat. Jan 02 11:07
schestowitz It’s antiquated and it tried hard to use the ‘familiar’ Windows UI where it does not fit well. Jan 02 11:07
schestowitz Windows NT = “better UNIX than UNIX”? Really? Jan 02 11:08
tessier “I’m Linux. I mean, Linus. I keep typing that wrong.” haha Jan 02 11:08
oiaohm Windows NT built as per it design. Jan 02 11:08
schestowitz 2 days ago: http://blog.hydrasystemsllc.com/2008/12/31… Jan 02 11:08
oiaohm Not the windows NT you know. Jan 02 11:08
schestowitz tessier: there is a baby in Sweden called “Linux” Jan 02 11:08
schestowitz http://www.linux.com/feature/149992 Jan 02 11:09
tessier Poor kid. Jan 02 11:09
schestowitz Comment: “My daughter is named Benedikte (after Linus Benedict Torvalds) – the closest I could get with a daughter – Linux/Linus are typical boys names. Benedikte was born in May 1998.” Jan 02 11:09
oiaohm NT has all the parts to be a true real time kernel including ques on IO access so they could be prempted.   Completely stuffed by putting a normal not premptable spinlock systme in. Jan 02 11:09
oiaohm Stuff Linux is trying to do now to become realtime was in the NT design from the start. Jan 02 11:10
oiaohm Microsoft history is sad stack of short cuts and lack of quality control. Jan 02 11:11
schestowitz If you can’t make it good, at least make it look good.” — BillG Jan 02 11:12
oiaohm Also the other Idea that stuffs Microsoft up is that all markets need there own OS. Jan 02 11:13
oiaohm So instead of fixing up the NT kernel for phones and embeded devices they created windows moblie and windows ce. Jan 02 11:13
oiaohm Can microsoft have a logic shift in time and save self maybe. Jan 02 11:14
oiaohm But I don’t give them good odd. Jan 02 11:15
oiaohm One of the sneekest exclusionary deals done a creative way.  Is Microsofts support for closed spec on hardware. Jan 02 11:16
oiaohm No hardware specs no one able to built competting OS’s. Jan 02 11:16
oiaohm Over time lots of people think its normal.   When before microsoft doing it.  The normal was open spec why the IBM XT machine was so cloneable. Jan 02 11:17
schestowitz Their priorities changed. Jan 02 11:19
schestowitz I doubt they go after embedded now. Jan 02 11:19
oiaohm They still are in a different way. Jan 02 11:19
schestowitz That’s the impression I got around June (ish) when there was a brouhaha about it. Jan 02 11:19
trmanco they are going after sub-netbooks Jan 02 11:19
oiaohm Did you read that pay as you go patent. Jan 02 11:19
schestowitz As for Windows Mobile, now they have Zune and they spend /HUGE/ amounts of money on some separate stuff Jan 02 11:19
schestowitz ” Danger” (the company) acquisition.. Jan 02 11:20
schestowitz There was also a company with an Asian names (IIRC) that does browser zooming for mobile Jan 02 11:20
schestowitz They replicate effort Jan 02 11:20
schestowitz iPhone and even Android make them shy of the competition Jan 02 11:20
schestowitz trmanco: would that be sub-sub-notebooks? :-) Jan 02 11:21
oiaohm http://news.netcraft.com/SSL-survey  << Remember netcraft is microsoft. Jan 02 11:21
schestowitz oiaohm: pay as you play = desparation Jan 02 11:21
trmanco :-P Jan 02 11:21
schestowitz This is not news Jan 02 11:21
schestowitz Mary Jo Foley, like myself, knows that this is years old Jan 02 11:21
schestowitz The patents also Jan 02 11:21
schestowitz I knew about this patent over a year ago Jan 02 11:22
schestowitz They experimented, but I doubt it was economical successs. Jan 02 11:22
oiaohm Just like MS attacking china pirate who was there partner. Jan 02 11:22
schestowitz They can’t figure out how to monetise Windows Jan 02 11:22
oiaohm Microsoft is getting desparation. Jan 02 11:22
schestowitz In most of the world, Windows is ‘free’ Jan 02 11:22
schestowitz If they charge for it, they lose more market to Linux Jan 02 11:22
trmanco why have an OS on a netbook that eats up half your ram with no security, when you can get a netbook that consumes 300 and has all the security thing bundled? Jan 02 11:22
schestowitz Brazil and China are big example. India too to an extent. Jan 02 11:22
oiaohm For along time MS has depended on ssl numbers to sell there servers. Jan 02 11:23
schestowitz *Examples Jan 02 11:23
schestowitz China used Red Flag  as a threat or bargaining card Jan 02 11:23
schestowitz Then Gates flew over (maybe just metaphorically) to negotiate ‘free’ Windows Jan 02 11:23
oiaohm China using Red Flag as a sledge hammer. Jan 02 11:23
schestowitz Now the Chinese are forcing some shops to move to ‘licensed’ Linux (probably with back doors) Jan 02 11:23
oiaohm MS threatens China nukes that market with Red Flag Jan 02 11:24
schestowitz trmanco: they try to change specs of sub-notebooks Jan 02 11:24
schestowitz If they can stop the low-end $199 sub-notebooks, they harm Linux Jan 02 11:24
oiaohm Worse China forces removal of windows completely from markets MS complains about. Jan 02 11:25
schestowitz But Linux won’t go away. They can’t choke it like they did with Palm or Netscape Jan 02 11:25
oiaohm Even if the machine has a legal windows copy. Jan 02 11:25
schestowitz China’s military moves to Linux too, IIRC Jan 02 11:25
schestowitz They want to keys to the back doors Jan 02 11:25
oiaohm They did not kill netscape completely. Jan 02 11:25
oiaohm Firefox still live and kicking quite well. Jan 02 11:25
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schestowitz Windows = FBI/CIA/NSA have the key, maybe sharing it with China after negitation Jan 02 11:25
trmanco new microfoot (R) netbook specs: 8 GB ram, some Intel quad core/AMD opetron, a truck battery, 50 000 rpm hard drive with 500 GB of disk space :) Jan 02 11:26
schestowitz China wants to be the only one with source code and key (they give Linux as binaries) Jan 02 11:26
schestowitz oiaohm: yes, because Netscape embraced open source Jan 02 11:26
schestowitz Gecko and all.. Jan 02 11:26
*mib_du1l0z has quit (Client Quit) Jan 02 11:26
schestowitz That’s why Microosft is afraid of these licences that spread. Jan 02 11:26
oiaohm Netscape kicked off large section of commerical open source. Jan 02 11:27
schestowitz They try to bury one company liek Linspire, but all the code is resurrected elsewhere. Jan 02 11:27
schestowitz They want one throat to choke — Novell. Jan 02 11:27
oiaohm Netscape might to be here any more but the effect they started most likely win in the end. Jan 02 11:27
oiaohm Novell is a vampire Jan 02 11:27
schestowitz No, a trap Jan 02 11:28
oiaohm Always has been. Jan 02 11:28
schestowitz It’s entrapping users under Microsoft’s TERMS Jan 02 11:28
oiaohm How many companies that have been Novell partners in crime that are still alive today. Jan 02 11:28
schestowitz Examples? Jan 02 11:28
oiaohm SCO and Microsoft are the only 2 left. Jan 02 11:29
schestowitz WordPerfect? Jan 02 11:29
oiaohm And SCO is almost dead. Jan 02 11:29
oiaohm From Novells actions. Jan 02 11:29
schestowitz They loved Ransom. :-) Jan 02 11:29
oiaohm Novell never would have entered the deal with Microsoft without a plan to destroy them. Jan 02 11:30
oiaohm So Novell game would be that we would be slaves to Novell not Microsoft. Jan 02 11:30
oiaohm History of Novell that has never changed. Jan 02 11:31
schestowitz Novell’s POV is different Jan 02 11:31
schestowitz It’s about being a friend of the Bully Jan 02 11:31
schestowitz Like Citrix Jan 02 11:31
schestowitz The ‘bad guys’ are Red Hat, UNIX, Ubuntu, even Apple and Google. Jan 02 11:32
oiaohm Novell mode of operation be your friend remain your friend.   Set you up and kill you. Jan 02 11:32
oiaohm Anyone who as seen Novell aquire software contacts can tell you that first hand. Jan 02 11:33
oiaohm That is even pre Microsoft. Jan 02 11:34
oiaohm I still think the SCO case was the most nasty.   Selling all Unix rights they had the right to transfer to SCO.  Due to the BSD vs Novell case there was bugger all that was transferable. Jan 02 11:35
oiaohm Mono might manage to top it. Jan 02 11:36
schestowitz Mono? Jan 02 11:37
schestowitz Microsoft won’t let it Jan 02 11:37
schestowitz In face, Microsoft is promoting the thing. Jan 02 11:37
schestowitz You don’t hand over nukes to your enemy Jan 02 11:37
oiaohm Read the contract Novell got Microsoft into. Jan 02 11:38
oiaohm If Microsoft does not premote Novell products its a breach of contract. Jan 02 11:38
oiaohm There is no reverse requirement. Jan 02 11:38
schestowitz That’s wishful thinking. Novell spends no time criticising Microsoft. Jan 02 11:40
schestowitz Don’t overestimate Microsoft’s incompetence. Jan 02 11:40
oiaohm Even funnier was the requirement for Microsoft to hand out free coupons to for SUSE Linux.  That MS had to buy from Novel at full price of SUSE. Jan 02 11:41
oiaohm Really would you kick someone who is handing you cash. Jan 02 11:41
schestowitz That’s not a good thing. Jan 02 11:41
schestowitz They try to block Free Linux. Jan 02 11:41
oiaohm Novell has never been about free OS. Jan 02 11:41
schestowitz They find out where it catches on and then enforce Microsoft software patents upon companies. Jan 02 11:42
schestowitz They set up precedence and liability Jan 02 11:42
schestowitz Novell does not care; it thinks only of the money that it needs (or else it will die) Jan 02 11:42
oiaohm When is that fact new. Jan 02 11:42
oiaohm Pre deal all Novell though about was that. Jan 02 11:43
schestowitz Yes. Jan 02 11:43
schestowitz Not new, but does that matter? Jan 02 11:43
oiaohm Novell will turn on Microsoft as so as Microsoft cannot pay. Jan 02 11:44
oiaohm Not a good place to put yourself. Jan 02 11:44
oiaohm MS deal also proves that Novell patents are more valuable than Microsoft ones effectively rendering MS defensive patents useless. Jan 02 11:45
oiaohm Question with the MS Novell deal is who is going to be dead first. Jan 02 11:46
schestowitz Not really Jan 02 11:48
schestowitz They do it for side effects Jan 02 11:48
schestowitz Both Microsoft and Novell are aligned against common rivals Jan 02 11:49
schestowitz They collaborate, not fight Jan 02 11:49
oiaohm So was SCO and Novell before Novell set them up for death. Jan 02 11:49
schestowitz SCO was small Jan 02 11:49
schestowitz Microsoft used it too Jan 02 11:50
oiaohm SCO and Novell were both the same size when they entered the deal with each other. Jan 02 11:50
oiaohm Problem for SCO when they found themselfs in the hole Novell created for them there was no way out so took money from anyone who would give it in the hope of finding a way out. Jan 02 11:52
oiaohm Before Novell and SCO become friends just like Microsoft and Novell they were both competing in the same market.   Novell and SCO joined forces to take control of Linux as well. Jan 02 11:54
oiaohm Histroy is looping. Jan 02 11:54
schestowitz Which year was this? SCO-Novell/Caldera? Jan 02 11:55
schestowitz *Oops. SCO/Caldera Jan 02 11:55
oiaohm Back in the 1990.  I know that the money for Novell dryed up with the .net bubble burst. Jan 02 11:56
oiaohm Yes history is repeating in more ways than 1. Jan 02 11:56
oiaohm So the sale of the trap to SCO was about extracting the last bit of money out of SCO. Jan 02 11:57
oiaohm Destroying SCO was kinda ment to make Novell look like the white knight to the open source world. Jan 02 11:58
schestowitz Yes. Jan 02 11:59
schestowitz They sure fool some people. Jan 02 11:59
schestowitz White knight.. to Microsoft Jan 02 11:59
schestowitz “how novell stepped up and said intellectual property matters” — Steve Ballmer (not exact quote) Jan 02 11:59
oiaohm Novell is never a White Knight Jan 02 11:59
schestowitz From October 2007 meeting in the UK Jan 02 11:59
oiaohm Microsoft is not in a location to negotate with Novell. Jan 02 12:00
schestowitz OT: As Crisis Spreads, a Pinch Becomes a Squeeze <  http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/28/nyregion/2… > Jan 02 12:00
oiaohm Novell has the patents to shut MS down. Jan 02 12:00
schestowitz Hehe. No, Novell is frail. Jan 02 12:00
schestowitz it has patents, yes, but so does Sun Jan 02 12:01
schestowitz They know from SCO what happens when they take this route. Jan 02 12:01
schestowitz Orem does not need another SCO killing its way down in court Jan 02 12:01
schestowitz Shedding staff off like a zombie.. Jan 02 12:02
schestowitz Novell shrank in 2008 Jan 02 12:02
schestowitz WTF! Jan 02 12:03
schestowitz I have YouTube on “Novell” syndicated Jan 02 12:03
schestowitz “Oracle & Novell Dance To The Tune Of Chiquitita(Marian Rivera Inspired)” Jan 02 12:03
schestowitz http://uk.youtube.com/wat… Jan 02 12:03
schestowitz “Oracle & Novel”? Jan 02 12:03
schestowitz Do they call kids after companies? Jan 02 12:03
schestowitz http://ask.slashdot.org/article…. “Here in the UK, our skytv settop box crashed (lost all tv channels but not the menus precisley at 00:00 1/1/2009 needed a cold boot to get the channels back.” Jan 02 12:07
oiaohm http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/12/04/no…  Novell numbers for 2008 have barly been effected. Jan 02 12:08
oiaohm Main reason vampiring. Jan 02 12:09
schestowitz In the past 7 hours, BoycottNovell sent over 10,000 pages to non-bots Jan 02 12:09
schestowitz Not bad for a holiday. ;-) Jan 02 12:09
trmanco schestowitz, you got your server back? (usenet)? Jan 02 12:09
schestowitz trmanco: let me check Jan 02 12:09
trmanco forget it Jan 02 12:09
trmanco it was a old post of yours that got up :| Jan 02 12:10
schestowitz No, still unreachable, until kentma gets home from Canada. Jan 02 12:10
trmanco ok Jan 02 12:10
schestowitz Vampire don’t lose staff (limbs) every year Jan 02 12:10
schestowitz Novell has shrunk for a long time Jan 02 12:11
schestowitz Top search queries in the past 30 hours: Jan 02 12:11
schestowitz microsoft layoffs14919.9 % Jan 02 12:11
schestowitz microsoft425.6 % Jan 02 12:11
schestowitz microsoft layoffs 2008374.9 % Jan 02 12:11
schestowitz microsoft layoff293.8 % Jan 02 12:11
schestowitz People want answers. Many people do. Jan 02 12:12
oiaohm Google has had the closet thing to layoffs ever. Jan 02 12:12
oiaohm Droping there part time staff. Jan 02 12:12
schestowitz Yes, MS too Jan 02 12:12
oiaohm 2009 could get bruttle. Jan 02 12:12
schestowitz But MS keeps quiet about it Jan 02 12:12
schestowitz See the BN comment from Needs Sunlight (latest) Jan 02 12:13
schestowitz He wrote about this a long time ago and I saw people ranting about it in USENET Jan 02 12:13
oiaohm Cutting full time staff is sign of major problems. Jan 02 12:13
schestowitz They quietly see their contracts dropped (that does not formally count as “layoff” Jan 02 12:13
schestowitz brittle? Jan 02 12:13
oiaohm brutal  dyslexia/attempt correct did not work out. Jan 02 12:14
schestowitz This will save the economy: http://www.slipperybrick.com/2009/01/usb-je… Jan 02 12:14
schestowitz Microsoft goes into debt, but here is the thing Jan 02 12:15
schestowitz I wrote about it years ago and like a gang of hyenas people attacked me. Jan 02 12:15
schestowitz Bill Parish wrote about this too Jan 02 12:15
schestowitz He pointed out that Microsoft silents voices of alarm by attacking them Jan 02 12:15
schestowitz Same with the Gates Fundation [sic], which is not what people are led to believe Jan 02 12:16
schestowitz Microsoft’s defence of its Big Lies is similar to some races that attack volces of truth. Jan 02 12:16
schestowitz Dismissing them as crazy, zealot, or racist Jan 02 12:16
oiaohm So true.   I have crossed enough of them. Jan 02 12:16
oiaohm I have always been a pure logical to OS comparing. Jan 02 12:17
schestowitz Here’s the thing again. Jan 02 12:17
schestowitz I may never get credit for saying this long ago when people tried to blind the messenger with heaps of Big Lies. Jan 02 12:17
schestowitz Same thing with THE ECNOMY Jan 02 12:17
schestowitz How many people warned it would collapse like this? Jan 02 12:17
schestowitz How many of them were PUBLISHED on paper? Jan 02 12:18
schestowitz They were marginalised and now that it turns out they were right all along, not a word it… Jan 02 12:18
oiaohm One person published a complete 800 page book. Jan 02 12:18
schestowitz *about it Jan 02 12:18
oiaohm Its a really good read Jan 02 12:18
schestowitz LONG read :-) Jan 02 12:18
oiaohm Me 800 page book 6 hours reading. Jan 02 12:18
schestowitz Who in this age would read long book? Jan 02 12:18
oiaohm I have sleep problems from time to time. Jan 02 12:19
schestowitz People are lazy; they read headlines and summaries; the Net enables this Jan 02 12:19
oiaohm Book don’t make any noise. Jan 02 12:19
schestowitz You can’t use them well Jan 02 12:19
schestowitz Like take or highlight bits, let alone search Jan 02 12:19
schestowitz I find that limiting Jan 02 12:19
oiaohm I use electronic a lot too.  Its just for when I cannot sleep. Jan 02 12:20
schestowitz Being physical, people use them as extensions/aides/buddies/accompanying things/enhancers Jan 02 12:20
schestowitz That’s why some people prefer printer books Jan 02 12:20
schestowitz I’d hate having a good book only on paper Jan 02 12:21
oiaohm No one has made a good electronic book that does not manage to go flat right at the wrong time. Jan 02 12:21
schestowitz With electronic version, you can produce (print) many copies Jan 02 12:21
schestowitz You can also share them and carry them on a UDB stick Jan 02 12:21
schestowitz .*USB Jan 02 12:21
schestowitz I’be just realised that I confused Dave Methvin with Foley of the same publication.. http://www.informationweek.com/blog/main/a… Jan 02 12:23
oiaohm Problem with truth is sooner or latter it comes out in a way you cannot stop. Jan 02 12:25
schestowitz I know. Jan 02 12:25
schestowitz Just watch the AstroTurfing evidence. Jan 02 12:26
oiaohm Now that support of Linux is going mainstream AstroTrufing is going to become insanely hard. Jan 02 12:26
schestowitz If you watch closely, he said the collapse of the “Free market” triggered him to regret it. Jan 02 12:26
schestowitz But…. IT’S also because I leaked it Jan 02 12:26
schestowitz I sent it to Grolaw, which put out the text in full. Jan 02 12:26
schestowitz And then I drew lots of attention to it. Jan 02 12:26
oiaohm Personally I really need to get a lot more proactive on quality control issues in open source. Jan 02 12:27
oiaohm Most hated myth about quality is time between releases is a factor. Jan 02 12:27
schestowitz It’ll be a super-slow year for business next year (few press releases and product announcements). Easier for me. :-) Jan 02 12:28
oiaohm I would not be too sure on that. Jan 02 12:28
schestowitz There was an article in Heise about it yesterday(ish) Jan 02 12:28
oiaohm Could be a super insane year for you. Jan 02 12:28
schestowitz Some German guy wrote about Debian release (quality vs timeframe) Jan 02 12:28
schestowitz oiaohm: insane just for me? How come? Jan 02 12:29
oiaohm Windows 7 MS Office 2009 and the pres pack of media releases they do when ever there are new products. Jan 02 12:29
schestowitz http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?sto… Jan 02 12:29
schestowitz Groklaw still in turtle pace mode  :-( Jan 02 12:30
schestowitz oiaohm: compared to previous years, that’s not much. Vista7 might be released in 2010 Jan 02 12:30
schestowitz Released only to ‘die’… Jan 02 12:30
schestowitz People won’t be buying dual cores in the year to come. Jan 02 12:31
schestowitz They can’t afford it, so slim software wins. Jan 02 12:31
oiaohm Quality of code is directly liked to the Quality control processors you have. Jan 02 12:32
oiaohm Not to the time between releases. Jan 02 12:32
oiaohm Problem for distributions they try applying Quality Controls after the fact instead of in the projects producing the code for them. Jan 02 12:33
MinceR hay Jan 02 12:35
schestowitz Microsoft’s ’technical evangelism’ structures are getting too rusty and people will hopefully start suing</a>, equipped with information and proof. http://boycottnovell.com/2009/01/02/gary-s… Jan 02 12:35
oiaohm Remember the old saying prevention beats cure.   So true for application construction.  If you have good quality controls on all alterations going into a project you don’t have to try to find errors on the other side as much.. Jan 02 12:37
oiaohm Hi MinceR Jan 02 12:38
schestowitz I see this spin re: Zune Jan 02 12:39
schestowitz It’s not Microsoft fault… it’s somebody else’s  (freezing) Jan 02 12:39
schestowitz The hecklers in BN used that too (well, one of them did, which makes him worth suspicion) Jan 02 12:40
oiaohm AMD should have know better.  Who could forget the AIGLX stuff up between redhat and novell Jan 02 12:42
oiaohm Or the promised evolution for windows.   That in the end turn out to run like a dog using cygwin and a X11 server on windows. Jan 02 12:43
schestowitz AMD had collabs going with NOVL Jan 02 12:43
schestowitz They still have that OpenSUSE sort of sponsorship/promotion Jan 02 12:44
oiaohm I think the only thing that saved the deal was Novells deal with microsoft allowing them to come into contact with Microsoft protected stuff about Direct X. Jan 02 12:45
oiaohm Ie the cross patent agreement thing. Jan 02 12:45
schestowitz Would it be so complex? Jan 02 12:48
oiaohm Not really. Jan 02 12:50
oiaohm Novell Microsoft patent deal is 100 percent protection to both parties as long it stays in effect from the others patents and IP. Jan 02 12:51
oiaohm So what ever AMD has to aquire from Microsoft for Direct X compadiblity is covered. Jan 02 12:52
oiaohm Novell deal with Microsoft is quite complete. Jan 02 12:52
oiaohm Reason for the requirement in the deal that Novell could not work on Wine. Jan 02 12:53
schestowitz But that would suggest Novell has some exclusive ownership of things it does with AMD. Jan 02 12:53
oiaohm No it does not. Jan 02 12:53
schestowitz Why Wine? Jan 02 12:54
oiaohm If Novell comes into contact with a doc contain stuff needed for direct X no foul to AMD. Jan 02 12:54
schestowitz It’s not covered BTW Jan 02 12:54
oiaohm If Novell was allowed to work on wine they would be able to use there access to windows source code. Jan 02 12:54
oiaohm And other core documents to make applications work. Jan 02 12:55
oiaohm Yes complete. Jan 02 12:55
oiaohm Now if Novell released Direct X docs that it go from AMD it would be foul on Novell. Jan 02 12:57
schestowitz DirectX? Jan 02 12:57
schestowitz Well, wait… why would they access DirectX? Jan 02 12:57
oiaohm Some sections of video card design are directly based of Direct X internal requirements. Jan 02 12:57
oiaohm Just like some sections of video cards are based of opengl requirements. Jan 02 12:58
oiaohm AMD breachs the agreement with Microsoft over that Direct X stuff and AMD would get cut out loop or at least risk it. Jan 02 12:59
oiaohm Yes why its taking so long to get a lot of docs through legal departments of AMD.  Then there are other bits protected by patents held by S3 and the like. Jan 02 13:00
schestowitz But does Novell need to give its engineer access to DirectX stuff? Jan 02 13:01
schestowitz I doubt it. They should be able to process just OGL instructions Jan 02 13:01
oiaohm Its more case of mistake. Jan 02 13:01
oiaohm Novell is safer for AMD to be passing docs to. Jan 02 13:01
oiaohm Since it don’t count. Jan 02 13:01
schestowitz But whose patents and NDAs? Jan 02 13:02
schestowitz Novell is only in bed with the Vole. Jan 02 13:02
schestowitz And has some patents to cross-license with, but the code is freely distributed Jan 02 13:02
oiaohm NDA exists between Microsoft and every video card maker with Direct X support. Jan 02 13:02
oiaohm That is a big one. Jan 02 13:03
oiaohm S3 no foul for a closed source driver builder working for a company coming in contact with sections its got under NDA. Jan 02 13:03
oiaohm Most of the others are like S3 one. Jan 02 13:04
oiaohm Microsoft one is the one with teeth to take your arms off as a video card maker. Jan 02 13:04
schestowitz Even for OpenGL? Jan 02 13:05
oiaohm Opengl is mostly safe. Jan 02 13:05
schestowitz Unless Novell needs access to DirectX, I don’t see it.. Jan 02 13:06
oiaohm S3 patent covers a form of texture compression. Jan 02 13:06
oiaohm That is optional to be used by opengl. Jan 02 13:06
oiaohm Docs for video card design not always neatly sorted schestowitz Jan 02 13:06
oiaohm One function might be used in Direct X and Opengl for two different functions. Jan 02 13:07
oiaohm Ie function names. Jan 02 13:07
oiaohm Its more comming into contact with it in the design documents. Jan 02 13:08
oiaohm Yes part of creating open source ATI drivers has been spliting the documents in 2. Jan 02 13:09
schestowitz So you’re suggesting that licences with Microsoft somehow get passed to Novell? Jan 02 13:09
schestowitz This does not convince me. Jan 02 13:10
schestowitz In fact, they were able to look for Red Hat developers Jan 02 13:10
schestowitz I assume you saw my last post. Jan 02 13:10
oiaohm Redhat equals having to split the documents before passing them over. Jan 02 13:11
oiaohm Novell and Microsoft agreement gave Novell protection from IP breach with Microsoft.   So Novell coming into contact with something NDA protected by Microsoft would be the same as Microsoft coming into contact with it.  No foul. Jan 02 13:13
schestowitz Is there any confirmation of this? Jan 02 13:14
schestowitz If it had reasons, someone would say it. Jan 02 13:14
schestowitz Novell or its developers, I reckon. Jan 02 13:14
schestowitz As if to say, “look, the deal with Microsoft was good because yadda yadda…” Jan 02 13:15
oiaohm Its a double sided sword. Jan 02 13:15
oiaohm Just because Novel can come into contact with MS NDA protected stuff does not mean they can release it. Jan 02 13:15
schestowitz *LOL* > http://www.antonywilliams.com/2009/01/more… Jan 02 13:15
oiaohm Its a protection part of the deal in Novel and Microsoft.   It was released to the stock exchange. Jan 02 13:16
oiaohm To me ages to get all the details of all the conditions and effects worked out from it. Jan 02 13:17
oiaohm End Novell wins. Jan 02 13:17
oiaohm Free advertising and Money. Jan 02 13:17
schestowitz Yes, I have that SEC filing. Jan 02 13:20
schestowitz About patents Jan 02 13:20
oiaohm There is more in there. Jan 02 13:20
schestowitz I disagree about it being a win, certainly not for GNU/Linux as a whole. it’s Novell and Microsoft trashing the F/OSS ecosystem for seflish gain. Jan 02 13:21
oiaohm F/0SS ecosystem destroying was always Novells goal. Jan 02 13:21
schestowitz http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/24/coope… Jan 02 13:22
oiaohm Section 10 of sec filing schestowitz wording is extreamly open and extreamly protecting. Jan 02 13:39
oiaohm Problem is in the over use of or Jan 02 13:40
oiaohm Some sections really should have been and. Jan 02 13:44
oiaohm Also section 11 cuts on MS teeth to hit back hard. Jan 02 13:49
trmanco Will OpenOffice.org Go to the Ball this Year?: http://www.computerworlduk.com/toolbox/open-… Jan 02 14:00
*oiaohm has quit (Remote closed the connection) Jan 02 14:00
trmanco More on Microsoft layoffs: http://www.fudzilla.com/index.php?option=com_conten… Jan 02 14:08
trmanco “Then take into consideration that Microsoft hires a lot of employees via agencies and that this number of employees aren’t included in the total head count at Microsoft. There’s a big chance that a large chunk of the 17 percent figure could come out of the agency staff.” Jan 02 14:08
schestowitz Thanls. Jan 02 14:16
schestowitz No surprises there. Jan 02 14:17
schestowitz http://netsecurity.about.com/b/2009/01/01/m… Jan 02 14:33
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  28. Links 25/05/2023: Istio 1.16.5 and Curl 8.1.1

    Links for the day

  29. Gemini Links 25/05/2023: On Profit and Desire for Gemini

    Links for the day

  30. SiliconANGLE: Sponsored by Microsoft and Red Hat to Conduct the Marriage Ceremony

    SiliconANGLE insists that paying SiliconANGLE money for coverage does not lead to bias, but every sane person who keeps abreast of SiliconANGLE — and I read their entire feed every day — knows that it’s a ludicrous lie (Red Hat/IBM and the Linux Foundation also buy puff pieces and “event coverage” from SiliconANGLE, so it’s marketing disguised as “journalism”

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