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02.23.09

IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: February 23rd, 2009 – Part 2

Posted in IRC Logs at 11:05 pm by Dr. Roy Schestowitz

GNOME Gedit

Enter the IRC channel now

oiaohm Why we don’t know. Feb 23 06:14
balzac no, you’ve got to use fiberoptic Feb 23 06:14
balzac copper is slow Feb 23 06:14
oiaohm That is the problem. Feb 23 06:14
oiaohm I said we have tech problems. Feb 23 06:14
balzac you have gov problems Feb 23 06:14
balzac tech problems are the least of your problems Feb 23 06:14
oiaohm Really tech. Feb 23 06:14
oiaohm Its cost of tech that lasts makes lot of things here too expensive to do. Feb 23 06:15
balzac rupert murdoch came from AU Feb 23 06:15
balzac so did John Howard Feb 23 06:15
balzac Australia produces 1st rate scumbags just like the US. Feb 23 06:15
oiaohm Now someone designs a fiber that does not upset sharks. Feb 23 06:15
balzac i’m sure your country has plenty of them Feb 23 06:15
oiaohm Island links become way cheaper. Feb 23 06:15
balzac a bit of research on sharks, a new casing on your cable Feb 23 06:16
oiaohm Last 40 years so far nothing that the sharks will leave alone has been found. Feb 23 06:16
oiaohm If it has fiber on. Feb 23 06:16
oiaohm Funny enough you lay it they don’t touch it until you start sending data. Feb 23 06:17
balzac so there must be some resistance which is creating a field which tickles them Feb 23 06:17
balzac insulate it better Feb 23 06:17
balzac sharks are not a big deal Feb 23 06:18
oiaohm So far no luck. Feb 23 06:18
balzac luck isn’t going to get it doen Feb 23 06:18
balzac putting Rupert Murdoch in prison would get the job done Feb 23 06:18
oiaohm Problem we don’t know what the sharks are picking up. Feb 23 06:18
balzac actually, fine the rotten SOB for 7B Feb 23 06:18
oiaohm Its a little hard to stop a signal until you know what it is. Feb 23 06:19
balzac oiaohm: no more excuses. it’s the fault of Rupert Murdoch and John Howard, both of whom should be fed to sharks. Along with Bush and Cheney. Feb 23 06:19
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balzac If we can feed those guys to sharks, there is no problem we can’t solve Feb 23 06:19
balzac sharks have sensitive skin to electrical phenomenon Feb 23 06:20
balzac that’s already known Feb 23 06:20
oiaohm Cost to do australia would drop massively if the island links could be done cheaply like everything else. Feb 23 06:20
balzac well, I’d put 50,000,000 on shark research and it would be solved quickly Feb 23 06:20
balzac 7B is a lot of dough Feb 23 06:20
oiaohm Also better designed ripper that did not break at solid white quatz. Feb 23 06:21
balzac your problem is basically Rupert Murdoch and his satellite network Feb 23 06:21
balzac he is your problem and there is none other than him Feb 23 06:21
balzac he makes his coin from controlling network access Feb 23 06:21
balzac and he hates freedom Feb 23 06:21
oiaohm Its time balzac it been over 30 years of research and still a cable other than coper has not been found that does not upset them.  Or a form of shielding that works. Feb 23 06:22
balzac I don’t even believe it Feb 23 06:23
balzac that can’t be true Feb 23 06:23
oiaohm Our major out link cables have been ran around there path. Feb 23 06:23
balzac it’s an excuse to keep AU in the dark Feb 23 06:23
oiaohm Just is a very major detor to avoid the taz ones. Feb 23 06:23
balzac •Likely, the rest of the cables have been damaged by fishing nets or boat anchors (those two causes account for 65% and 18% of all undersea cable problems). Feb 23 06:25
oiaohm Taz also has a secound problem. Feb 23 06:27
oiaohm Bass straight it self.  Extreamlly high currents. Feb 23 06:27
balzac the problem is rupert murdoch Feb 23 06:27
oiaohm Not really Feb 23 06:27
balzac he’s got the media monopoly Feb 23 06:27
oiaohm Really. Feb 23 06:27
balzac tell me he hasn’t got Au by the balls Feb 23 06:28
oiaohm We have 4 commerical media companies. Feb 23 06:28
oiaohm He only has a interest in 1. Feb 23 06:28
balzac Australia’s a lot easier to control than the US and he’s been controlling our media Feb 23 06:28
oiaohm No control of the other 3 Feb 23 06:28
oiaohm You forget the packer familly. Feb 23 06:28
balzac yeah, well he only owns one cable news channel here as well Feb 23 06:28
balzac but it was the official cable news channel of the Bush administration Feb 23 06:29
oiaohm We have a mirror force to rupert Feb 23 06:29
balzac Now Rupert Murdoch is hating obama Feb 23 06:29
oiaohm You are not that lucky. Feb 23 06:29
balzac Fox served Bush day in and day out. Feb 23 06:29
oiaohm Packers never had interested in overseas investments.. Feb 23 06:29
oiaohm So you got stuck with the worse one. Feb 23 06:30
oiaohm Rupert is not an Australian cit either. Feb 23 06:30
oiaohm He is a USA cit these days. Feb 23 06:30
oiaohm So he cannot own an Australian media company as the major share holder. Feb 23 06:31
balzac well, Au doesn’t require as much resources for him to control your media Feb 23 06:32
balzac I’m sure he is your worst problem Feb 23 06:32
balzac regardless of his US citizenship Feb 23 06:32
oiaohm Nop Feb 23 06:32
oiaohm Basically his control here is min. Feb 23 06:33
oiaohm Lots most of his control when he took up US cit Feb 23 06:33
oiaohm His investers double crossed him. Feb 23 06:33
oiaohm Basically we exported our problem. Feb 23 06:34
oiaohm Packers on the other hand are as strong as ever. Feb 23 06:35
balzac well, who provides your network services? what companies? Feb 23 06:35
balzac they are your problem Feb 23 06:35
balzac so your problem is a few people, not the sharks or the size of yoru continent Feb 23 06:35
balzac these people probably pay fishing boats to drag their anchors across the cables and blame it on sharks Feb 23 06:35
balzac so they can control access Feb 23 06:36
oiaohm Not likely. Feb 23 06:36
balzac by controlling access, they have enough funds to lobby your gov Feb 23 06:36
oiaohm We have radar coverage. Feb 23 06:36
oiaohm Any boat near cable is impounded. Feb 23 06:36
balzac well, the shark problem is clearly exaggerated Feb 23 06:36
oiaohm Its just some areas.  Its a particular species of shark. Feb 23 06:37
balzac sharks are no match for people Feb 23 06:37
balzac alright, i have to snooze Feb 23 06:37
oiaohm Here boat hitting cable does happen. Feb 23 06:38
balzac i hope you’re inspired to point the finger at whoever is choking your data access Feb 23 06:38
balzac instead of the poor fish Feb 23 06:38
oiaohm Some is tech. Feb 23 06:38
oiaohm Some is goverments. Feb 23 06:38
oiaohm Issue here that australia has some unque problems. Feb 23 06:38
balzac nothing crocodile dundee couldn’t handle Feb 23 06:39
oiaohm Lucky salt water crocodiles take no interest in fiber. Feb 23 06:39
balzac “That’s not a knife, *this* is a knife!” Feb 23 06:40
oiaohm That is kinda the problem. Feb 23 06:40
balzac ok, i’m going to snooze Feb 23 06:40
oiaohm What you guys use with your areas is fine.  We just need bigger and stronger. Feb 23 06:40
balzac hehe Feb 23 06:41
oiaohm Now when someone invents that our networking problems will disappear. Feb 23 06:41
oiaohm Like rippers that don’t snap hitting really hard rock. Feb 23 06:41
oiaohm That is most of our cost in land base laying comes from that. Feb 23 06:42
oiaohm Snapping the rippers off. Feb 23 06:42
*balzac goes to sleep Feb 23 06:42
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schestowitz Maybe I should too. It’s 7am here. Feb 23 06:54
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schestowitz Already light.. Feb 23 06:54
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schestowitz Good night… it’s almost morning. Feb 23 07:06
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ZiggyFish Word of warning, the mono libraries are downloadable from the android market Feb 23 10:01
MinceR the latest release from Microogvell? :> Feb 23 10:07
MinceR hay Feb 23 10:08
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trmanco Hi guys Feb 23 11:07
trmanco Microsoft wants refund from some laid off workers: http://news.cnet.com/8301-10805_3… just read this Feb 23 11:07
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mib_d24w28 hello.. Feb 23 11:17
mib_d24w28 is there anyone who can tell me what atmosphere is there at the epo office about softaware patents? Feb 23 11:19
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trmanco http://i44.tinypic.com/juddu1.png Feb 23 11:30
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oiaohm Having a good day schestowitz Feb 23 11:33
schestowitz hey Feb 23 11:33
oiaohm My day of fun is about to being.  Data recovery. Feb 23 11:38
schestowitz Anything vital? Did someone rm -rf /home/mickeymouse ? Feb 23 11:43
oiaohm Harddrive stoped Feb 23 11:43
oiaohm Complete accounts for business on it. Feb 23 11:43
oiaohm Ok not my companies. Feb 23 11:43
schestowitz Ahhhh…. Feb 23 11:43
schestowitz Maybe it ‘stopped’ Feb 23 11:44
schestowitz Meltdown Feb 23 11:44
schestowitz Hide the evidence Feb 23 11:44
schestowitz We ‘lost’ data :-) j/k Feb 23 11:44
schestowitz “Oops” Feb 23 11:44
oiaohm Nop Feb 23 11:44
oiaohm It was disk failure Feb 23 11:44
schestowitz Sure, sure :-D Feb 23 11:44
oiaohm Owns to a bad batch of disks. Feb 23 11:45
oiaohm To be correct primarly and back up disk were from the same batch. Feb 23 11:45
schestowitz Yeah, I know. I’m just joking, but it’s also a classic plot Feb 23 11:45
oiaohm Yep very big mistake Feb 23 11:45
schestowitz Microsoft actually fits here Feb 23 11:45
oiaohm Both died in mins of each other. Feb 23 11:45
schestowitz They pretended they lost E_mail backup Feb 23 11:45
schestowitz They blamed H-P  for bad backup Feb 23 11:45
oiaohm Note to you schestowitz Feb 23 11:45
schestowitz So the evidence of crime could not be brought back Feb 23 11:46
oiaohm Never put backups to harddrives on the same batch drives. Feb 23 11:46
schestowitz oiaohm: you know I was kidding, right? Feb 23 11:46
oiaohm I know. Feb 23 11:46
schestowitz oiaohm: Hehe :-) Feb 23 11:46
oiaohm But data recovery I don’t kid. Feb 23 11:46
schestowitz Same HDD Feb 23 11:46
schestowitz “Hey, Scott, did you make a backup?” Feb 23 11:46
oiaohm Some of my stories sound like pulling leg. Feb 23 11:46
schestowitz Scott: “Sure, I copies all my file to ‘drive’ D: Feb 23 11:46
oiaohm Sad part they are true. Feb 23 11:46
schestowitz Partitition… Feb 23 11:47
oiaohm Like person open drive to oil squeaks.  Yes it does happen. Feb 23 11:47
oiaohm Then wondering why drive does not work any more. Feb 23 11:47
schestowitz :-) Feb 23 11:47
oiaohm After closer inspection they used super glue. Feb 23 11:47
schestowitz It’s not a typewriter Feb 23 11:47
oiaohm Instead of oil. Feb 23 11:47
schestowitz LMAO Feb 23 11:47
oiaohm Yes some days it like what were this person thinking. Feb 23 11:48
schestowitz What’s next? Fixing bad RAM with tongs and a magnifying glass? Feb 23 11:48
oiaohm It bad enough opening a drive without a clean room. Feb 23 11:48
oiaohm Not quite tongs but I have seen the effect of hammer being used to insert ram. Feb 23 11:48
oiaohm It did not want to go in because they had the stick backwards. Feb 23 11:49
oiaohm Yes person put hammer threw montherboard. Feb 23 11:50
oiaohm Then was asking if it could be fixed. Feb 23 11:50
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oiaohm You know the old joke about using cdrom drive a coffee cup holder.   Its not a joke there are some people out there dumb enough to do it. Feb 23 11:51
oiaohm Data recovery the job to meet the next possiable darwin award winners.  Just make sure they don’t kill you first. Feb 23 11:51
oiaohm Great Feb 23 11:54
oiaohm Just had a sata cable fall. Feb 23 11:54
oiaohm Back to starting blocks again. Feb 23 11:54
oiaohm back in a bit Feb 23 11:56
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oiaohm Right just found my first annoying bug of Linux. Feb 23 12:00
oiaohm Don’t have sata cable fall out of main drive. Feb 23 12:00
oiaohm Putting it back in Linux does not recover and move on. Feb 23 12:00
schestowitz The cup-holder thing is a classic. Feb 23 12:02
oiaohm Problem is its true Feb 23 12:02
oiaohm So far in my IT history I have meet 15 people who have done it. Feb 23 12:03
oiaohm Then got me and expect me to fix there cup holder. Feb 23 12:03
oiaohm I was young once and believed humans could not be that dumb. Feb 23 12:05
oiaohm Experience is teaching me not matter how dump you think humans are there will always be another that makes you push that limit back. Feb 23 12:05
oiaohm Hmm do you have a list of dumb things MS personal has said by any chance schestowitz Feb 23 12:11
oiaohm No one needing more than 640 kb of ram from gates is a classic. Feb 23 12:12
schestowitz Yes Feb 23 12:21
schestowitz I have some, but not groups by criteria like “Stupidity” Feb 23 12:22
schestowitz *grouped Feb 23 12:22
schestowitz Gates denies saying the above BTW Feb 23 12:22
oiaohm Note 640 kb one is from 1981 Feb 23 12:27
oiaohm At the time who was to know. Feb 23 12:27
oiaohm “If something’s expensive to develop, and somebody’s not going to get paid, it won’t get developed. So you decide: Do you want software to be written, or not?” in an interview in 1980. Feb 23 12:28
oiaohm The foundation stone of closed source software. Feb 23 12:28
oiaohm Is it just me or is the IT news really slow at moment schestowitz Feb 23 12:31
schestowitz Yes, very. Feb 23 12:33
schestowitz Many people laid off Feb 23 12:33
schestowitz I hear from them sometimes. Feb 23 12:33
oiaohm MIPS joining the linux foundation is about the only new news I have found recently. Feb 23 12:35
oiaohm I guess you also notices the number of computer mags now only web sites as well. Feb 23 12:36
schestowitz <<<<<<yes Feb 23 12:36
schestowitz oops Feb 23 12:36
schestowitz brackets=mistake Feb 23 12:37
oiaohm IT bubble has burst. Feb 23 12:37
oiaohm Question now is how big of fall out. Feb 23 12:37
kentma oiaohm: it’s not just IT, it’s pretty much everything which has burst.  Thank the bankers…  they invented something called “financial engineering”, not realising that engineering is when you make something…  silly s*ds. Feb 23 12:40
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oiaohm Lot of open source is not effected yet. Feb 23 12:43
kentma open-source will not be negatively affected in terms of it’s existence or supportability.  personally, I think it’ll be a big winner from the recession, as people, companies and organisations generally look to reduce their costs. Feb 23 12:44
schestowitz Also transparency will be pursued Feb 23 12:45
oiaohm Open-source will have a crunch if it lasts long enough. Feb 23 12:45
schestowitz It keeps vendors honest Feb 23 12:45
schestowitz oiaohm: no one company has a dependence here. Feb 23 12:46
schestowitz Microsoft goes out of its way to give the false perception that it’s stable Feb 23 12:46
schestowitz Analysts and investors appa\rently wanted it to lay off a lot more people and change course. Feb 23 12:47
kentma oiaohm: open-source cannot have a crunch per se, as it is just software.  The most likely outcome for those involved in open-source, however, is that they will continue to benefit because it’s such a good option compared with the present expensive proprietary ones.  We’re already seeing this with the netbook explosion. Feb 23 12:48
oiaohm Open source support companies then kentma Feb 23 12:49
oiaohm At this stage companies are still health enough to pay for out side support. Feb 23 12:49
kentma oiaohm: I think they will benefit from the recession considerably, as they offer a lower-cost alternative in a time when people look to reduce costs. Feb 23 12:49
oiaohm Usering program not paying support company.  Can be cheeper. Feb 23 12:50
oiaohm Yes more risk as well. Feb 23 12:50
oiaohm Problem is how pushed to wall is company. Feb 23 12:50
kentma I agree with you, which is why open-source will benefit – if you go open, you can pick and choose support, whereas proprietary solutions are pretty much one-shop, particularly when deep problems are found. Feb 23 12:51
kentma consider that Microsoft have had bugs in for years, perhaps even decades now, which have been known but remain unfixed… Feb 23 12:51
oiaohm The problem here some of the most skilled programmers in the open source world are employeed by the support companies. Feb 23 12:52
oiaohm So them suffering pain can cause issues. Feb 23 12:52
oiaohm Hopefully it turns around before that happens. Feb 23 12:53
kentma I agree with your concerns, of course, but open-source began as entirely unfunded, and I do not believe that this will change – it’s about the entry-barrier to becoming a coder, which is very very low for open-source.   In fact, for many coders, continuing to work on key projects will help to maintain their employability as a kind of “live CV” Feb 23 12:53
benJIman nava Feb 23 12:54
benJIman yy;r Feb 23 12:54
benJIman OOps, wrong keyboard layout. Feb 23 12:54
oiaohm kentma idea that open source is unfund for major projects unfunded programmers is the minority. Feb 23 12:59
oiaohm Programmers are normally paid to make something work for someone in the open source world. Feb 23 13:00
schestowitz Just posted: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/02/23/microsof… Feb 23 13:06
oiaohm People love thinking as open source as magical. Feb 23 13:12
schestowitz Free software. Feb 23 13:22
schestowitz It’s not magic… no more than something like “freedom” can be called magic or. It’s more of a state or condition. Feb 23 13:23
oiaohm Open source still needs money in places. Feb 23 13:24
oiaohm Just how it gets money is different. Feb 23 13:24
oiaohm Instead of taking cash up front.  It takes cash when you want feature fast. Feb 23 13:26
oiaohm Long enough down turn could slow open source development. Feb 23 13:26
oiaohm Ok by then everything in the software world is mostly going under. Feb 23 13:27
schestowitz PDFs dangerous in Windows: “Systems affected are Windows 2000, Windows Vista and Windows XP.” < http://www.itwire.com/content/view/23407/1231/ > Feb 23 13:38
schestowitz New argument logic noticed: company says it lowers prices for charitable reasons rather than admitting that it’s due to fear of losing the customers to cheaper alternatives. The power of spin.. Feb 23 13:40
oiaohm There is one problem with spin it has a habit of disappearing. Feb 23 13:46
schestowitz In what sense? Feb 23 13:53
MinceR reader is an adobe product — of course it’s full of holes Feb 23 14:04
twitter Revisionism, I suppose.  The new lie never matches the old one. Feb 23 14:05
twitter free software has been around for 25 years, oiaohm.  it’s not going anywhere. Feb 23 14:05
twitter it can exist without money at all – when people want to make something for themselves the easiest place to start is with free software tools and parts.  when they are done there’s no harm or cost to sharing.  the economics are a win for everyone. Feb 23 14:07
twitter the less money there is to be made by selling software in a box, the more people will share. Feb 23 14:07
oiaohm twitter exist yes. Feb 23 14:08
twitter There’s just not enough money in greed to be worth the trouble. Feb 23 14:08
oiaohm Speed high speeds of development it has now depends on money. Feb 23 14:08
twitter That’s when people pay programmers to have new free features?  Nothing new there – that’s how Stallman made a living 25 years ago. Feb 23 14:09
oiaohm Deep enough depression paying programmers will stop. Feb 23 14:09
oiaohm As I said by the time open source is in trouble basically everything else is stuffed. Feb 23 14:10
twitter Deep enough depression, there will be no milk unless you diy. Feb 23 14:10
MinceR ew Feb 23 14:10
twitter Never milked a cow Mincer? Feb 23 14:11
MinceR cow? who mentioned cows? Feb 23 14:11
MinceR you said do it yourself. Feb 23 14:11
twitter manboobs make no milk Feb 23 14:11
MinceR you never said using a cow to help with the process is permissible :> Feb 23 14:11
twitter we have all been robbed, that’s what depressions are all about.  if the theft is large enough, everyone will be hurt but free software is not going anywhere. Feb 23 14:12
twitter If anything, economic downturn favors the free software and other sustainable and diy ways. Feb 23 14:13
oiaohm It favors to a point. Feb 23 14:13
oiaohm Past particular points of everything stuffed. Feb 23 14:13
twitter Really?  At what point of economic failure will people want to buy Vista? Feb 23 14:13
twitter LOL Feb 23 14:13
twitter I can’t afford my electric bill, better go buy a $100 copy of XP. Feb 23 14:14
oiaohm Closed source yes likely to die first. Feb 23 14:14
oiaohm They are not setup for these downturns at all. Feb 23 14:14
oiaohm Problem comes in with lead coders. Feb 23 14:15
oiaohm /developers Feb 23 14:15
twitter and free software is likely to take non free software’s place in *ALL CASES* (paraphrase of OS/2 being blown away) Feb 23 14:15
MinceR what’s that problem? Feb 23 14:15
oiaohm For open source project to operate effectively they need to funded. Feb 23 14:15
MinceR not really Feb 23 14:15
oiaohm Ie max effectiveness. Feb 23 14:15
MinceR there are projects that work pretty well without funding Feb 23 14:16
oiaohm So they can put there full time into it. Feb 23 14:16
MinceR because they scratch an itch the developers have Feb 23 14:16
MinceR or it’s fun to do (for example, a game) Feb 23 14:16
oiaohm Not really. Feb 23 14:16
twitter the sum of many part time efforts is greater than any funding can afford in full time employment. Feb 23 14:16
oiaohm Most games don’t operate at max. Feb 23 14:16
twitter yeah, games just get done and work well. Feb 23 14:17
twitter like the rest of free software Feb 23 14:17
oiaohm Linux kernel is operating at max. Feb 23 14:17
MinceR hm, and if there’s no pay for developers because of the depression, what exactly are they going to do full-time? Feb 23 14:17
MinceR also, since when does full-time even matter? Feb 23 14:17
oiaohm It the means for it to quicky intergrate new features and have short release cycles. Feb 23 14:17
MinceR the linux kernel is a good example of something a lot of people contribute a little each to. Feb 23 14:17
twitter they are going to do some kind of thing to do a living, and software will always make that something easier. Feb 23 14:17
oiaohm Without full time leads means to do that disappears. Feb 23 14:18
MinceR please rephrase that in english. Feb 23 14:18
twitter You are repeating repeating yourself ohmman Feb 23 14:18
oiaohm The full time developers can put there full time into checking and making sure quick releases can work. Feb 23 14:19
oiaohm Part time has its issues when it comes to fast release cycles. Feb 23 14:19
MinceR why are fast release cycles important? Feb 23 14:19
oiaohm Just the way it is. Feb 23 14:19
MinceR do we really absolutely have to do the “if it compiles, ship it” approach? Feb 23 14:20
twitter I don’t even believe that’s the way it is oiaohm. Feb 23 14:20
twitter software that people want will be written the same way it always has. Feb 23 14:20
schestowitz Better slow development than none at all Feb 23 14:21
oiaohm Feature intergration .  Longer the release cycles slower new features can enter. Feb 23 14:21
schestowitz Proprietary s/w companies are led to losing/sacking key programmers. What then? Feb 23 14:21
twitter oiaohm thinks that corporate involvement is more important than it is. Feb 23 14:21
MinceR software isn’t all about the new shiny crap nobody uses. Feb 23 14:21
schestowitz Pity those whose data is stuck in those legacy apps and can’t afford to hire a coder to escape the program Feb 23 14:21
twitter he seems to have swallowed a whole bunch of software owner koolaid Feb 23 14:22
oiaohm I am not saying open source cannot operate without it twitter. Feb 23 14:22
schestowitz You could have many companies running code from the ‘middle ages’ through the depression. Feb 23 14:22
schestowitz Windows 2000… Feb 23 14:22
schestowitz Because they can’t afford new Vista PCs (nor do they want to) Feb 23 14:22
twitter you are saying that free software works better with corporate involvement.  I’m not at all sure that’s the case. Feb 23 14:22
oiaohm Wine project. Feb 23 14:22
schestowitz The natural thing for them to do is upgrade to PCLinuxOS or something… on the same boxes Feb 23 14:23
oiaohm Before corporate involvement release cycles were long. Feb 23 14:23
oiaohm Simple fact project lead could not put full time into it. Feb 23 14:23
oiaohm Had to do other work to pay bills. Feb 23 14:23
schestowitz KDE gets little funding Feb 23 14:23
schestowitz Most are volunteers Feb 23 14:23
MinceR twitter: remember he’s our sun fanboy. :> Feb 23 14:24
oiaohm Core people are still funded. Feb 23 14:24
schestowitz WordPress has a business model too Feb 23 14:24
schestowitz Firefox.. Feb 23 14:24
oiaohm Its not large numbers of the open source coders need funding. Feb 23 14:24
schestowitz MinceR: Sun.. well, if anyone’s at trouble, it’s them Feb 23 14:24
oiaohm There are just key stone people.  Who make sure project run organised. Feb 23 14:25
schestowitz Linux is funded by many companies Feb 23 14:25
MinceR it’s trouble they’ve sought for themselves. Feb 23 14:25
schestowitz Solaris has just paying programmers working on it and Sun is not in a good positiion Feb 23 14:25
schestowitz Had Sun been bought/gone under, nobody would bother with their code much.. Feb 23 14:25
twitter oiaohm, you think what you like.  free software works in any economy, except a post nuclear zero people left one. Feb 23 14:25
schestowitz There’s already Linus… Feb 23 14:25
schestowitz *Linux Feb 23 14:25
twitter gotta go for a while. Feb 23 14:26
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oiaohm Free software will work in any economy but its means to change quickly can be effected. Feb 23 14:26
oiaohm Development speed slow not die. Feb 23 14:26
oiaohm Of course we don’t want its development speed slowing. Feb 23 14:27
oiaohm If MS is slowing it gives Linux a chance to get ahead as long as its not effected. Feb 23 14:27
oiaohm Idea that open source is 100 percent isolated from being effected is wrong. Feb 23 14:28
MinceR maybe it will slow after proprietary sw has already died out. Feb 23 14:29
MinceR at least when the last human dies. Feb 23 14:29
MinceR :> Feb 23 14:29
oiaohm Proprietary has the highest risk. Feb 23 14:29
oiaohm Reason there costs are not spreed. Feb 23 14:29
schestowitz Development likewise Feb 23 14:29
schestowitz Netscape Navigator… Feb 23 14:30
MinceR that’s not the only reason. Feb 23 14:30
oiaohm It is really. Feb 23 14:30
MinceR repeated assertion isn’t going to prove anything. Feb 23 14:30
oiaohm Open source there are a lot of system admins and the like that do put in code. Feb 23 14:30
oiaohm So cost of developers is spreed using what would have been in some cases wasted time. Feb 23 14:31
MinceR the low likelyhood of being able to resurrect a dead project (via forking, for example) increases risk. Feb 23 14:31
oiaohm Every line of code created costs something. Feb 23 14:31
MinceR lock-in increases risk. Feb 23 14:31
oiaohm Really the example to cover current events is sep 11 when the twin towers came down. Feb 23 14:33
oiaohm Lot of companies there were able to restruct and keep going using open source software. Feb 23 14:34
oiaohm Ones who did not died. Feb 23 14:34
oiaohm While it was really bad focus was not on development but just making things work and bring in profit. Feb 23 14:34
oiaohm Same thing risks happening now if we end up too deep. Feb 23 14:35
MinceR another factor that increases risk is that there’s only one place you can go for support. Feb 23 14:35
oiaohm Note compainys from world trade who tried staying completely closed source no longer exist. Feb 23 14:36
oiaohm We have seen what can happen on the small scale in that event. Feb 23 14:36
oiaohm Open source is strong there is also issues with projects losing leads.   Losing key lead developers can end a open source project due to infighting. Feb 23 14:38
oiaohm There are risks to open source from the current mess. Feb 23 14:38
oiaohm Ok nothing large enough to kill it out right.   Still enough to cause trouble. Feb 23 14:39
oiaohm Only way to kill Open Source majorly would be if laws globally where passed that made it illegal. Feb 23 14:40
oiaohm I am talking about harm not death. Feb 23 14:42
oiaohm There is a major difference. Feb 23 14:42
MinceR i’m sure microsoft, apple and their flunkies are trying to come up with a way to make it illegal everywhere even as we speak. Feb 23 14:47
MinceR hopefully the rest of the world is powerful enough to hold them back Feb 23 14:47
oiaohm Apple limited Feb 23 14:48
oiaohm They heavly depend on a lot of open source stacks. Feb 23 14:48
oiaohm Most apple will want to do is slow open source not kill it. Feb 23 14:49
oiaohm Ie patents. Feb 23 14:49
MinceR they believe they’ve stolen enough stuff already, judging by their efforts to kill it Feb 23 14:50
MinceR sw patents would kill it. Feb 23 14:50
oiaohm They learnt expensive leasons. Feb 23 14:50
oiaohm Lot of what they stole caused them more problems. Feb 23 14:51
MinceR have they? Feb 23 14:51
oiaohm Than if they intergrated with the open source stack. Feb 23 14:51
MinceR have they realized that? will they ever care? Feb 23 14:51
oiaohm Cups was nasty. Feb 23 14:52
MinceR will they ever be willing to work with anyone while all they can think about is whether their god, steve jobs would approve of whatever they’re doing at the time? Feb 23 14:52
oiaohm Drivers developed for Linux Freebsd and others did not work. Feb 23 14:52
oiaohm On apple due to there alterations. Feb 23 14:52
MinceR i think their corporate culture (if it can be called “culture” — well, maybe in the sense of a culture of bacteria) disallows them from effectively cooperating with anyone outside the company. Feb 23 14:53
oiaohm khtml nicking cost them in fixing bugs.  Since there alterations stopped most of the third party bug fixes from working. Feb 23 14:53
oiaohm It don’t turn out as good as it first seams to fork away. Feb 23 14:54
MinceR well, that’s kind of obvious to anyone but apple. Feb 23 14:54
oiaohm Basically apple has had to learn the leasons the hard way. Feb 23 14:54
MinceR or perhaps they really thought it’s worth the trouble anyway. Feb 23 14:54
MinceR perhaps they’re willing to do 3x the work if it means they get to keep their vision of serving only the stupidest user. Feb 23 14:55
MinceR and ignoring technical matters in all decisions. Feb 23 14:55
oiaohm Really apple does not have the resources to do 3x the work. Feb 23 14:55
MinceR then hopefully they’ll die Feb 23 14:56
oiaohm They have enough resource sucking maintaining there graphical interface. Feb 23 14:56
MinceR and hopefully they’ll drag their cult with them. Feb 23 14:56
oiaohm Now does software patents stop open source.   From apples point of view no.   Apple will sell anyone licences to use there patents. Feb 23 14:57
oiaohm Software patents do expire in time or get disproved by prior art. Feb 23 14:57
oiaohm Software patents is a slowing effect not a killing one. Feb 23 14:58
MinceR it merely keeps new and small players off the market Feb 23 14:58
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MinceR which reduces the amount of developers available drastically. Feb 23 14:58
schestowitz Speaking of Apple, they too had financial misconduct noted Feb 23 14:58
MinceR and only the big bastards are left, who may or may not want to use it. Feb 23 14:59
Balrog http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/0… Feb 23 14:59
schestowitz I think they do better than Microsoft because they sell hardware, but that’s about it Feb 23 14:59
Balrog you might have seen that though Feb 23 14:59
schestowitz Apple is virtually non existent in most of the world, just the rich parts of it Feb 23 14:59
Balrog well Apple is much more committed to open standards than MS. Not as much as we’d like, but still somewhat better Feb 23 14:59
oiaohm ipods and other i devices schestowitz kinda hold apple up. Feb 23 14:59
MinceR apple is committed to open standards? since when? Feb 23 15:00
MinceR they’re definitely not committed to ODF, for example Feb 23 15:00
Balrog that’s what I meant by ‘not as much as we’d like’ Feb 23 15:00
Balrog web standards is one example Feb 23 15:00
Balrog by not including flash on the iphone, and making their browser standards-compliant, web developers must write web pages properly Feb 23 15:01
Balrog if iphone users are to benefit Feb 23 15:01
schestowitz Balrog: Apple is also very pro-lock-in Feb 23 15:01
schestowitz Some say worse than Windows Feb 23 15:01
oiaohm Lock in is apples nature. Feb 23 15:01
MinceR omitting flash might be because you need a monster of a machine to run it properly. Feb 23 15:02
Balrog I’m not denying that though Feb 23 15:02
oiaohm So far no one been able to prove that is not profitable to them. Feb 23 15:02
schestowitz As for standard, well.. they use some FOSS stacks, so through reuse they enable some portability in places Feb 23 15:02
Balrog and remember them pushing PDF (now an open standard) when MS was pushing XPS? Feb 23 15:02
oiaohm Apple is far less likely to expand a standard in a undocumented way. Feb 23 15:02
oiaohm Apple is not prefect. Feb 23 15:03
Balrog yes, or create a new widely used standard Feb 23 15:03
Balrog definitely not perfect …. Feb 23 15:03
oiaohm Apple was also one of the first to publish there network protocals with no strings attached. Feb 23 15:03
Balrog (I don’t think even Sun is totally ‘perfect’ in that regard. True, they’re better than Apple though.) Feb 23 15:03
oiaohm Apple has some good and some bad. Feb 23 15:04
Balrog Windows is not only pro lock-in but also a monopoly. So you have no choice with it. And API’s change all the time. Feb 23 15:04
oiaohm Vendor lock in side is about Apple worse bit. Feb 23 15:04
Balrog oiaohm: I agree. Feb 23 15:04
Balrog well yeah; they just dropped that problem with itunes though Feb 23 15:04
Balrog (with drm free) Feb 23 15:04
oiaohm Try finding good that MS was not forced to do. Feb 23 15:05
MinceR they still sell drm-ed movies in itunes, don’t they? Feb 23 15:05
schestowitz Balrog: slashdot puts old news up? Feb 23 15:05
schestowitz 2008 in 2009 Feb 23 15:05
MinceR and non-itunes apps are still locked out of the newest ipods, aren’t they? Feb 23 15:05
Balrog yeah, but would the media companies allow anything different? Feb 23 15:05
oiaohm Remember apple released there network protocals when they were the most dominate in the network without force being required. Feb 23 15:05
schestowitz “Posted by  at June 24, 2008 “ Feb 23 15:05
MinceR there are media companies that would Feb 23 15:05
Balrog heh. Feb 23 15:05
oiaohm Media companies are also pro lockin. Feb 23 15:06
MinceR the rest can look at their lost revenue and make up their minds. Feb 23 15:06
Balrog well probably down the road they will drop DRM on those movies Feb 23 15:06
Balrog I know. But people care for movies. Feb 23 15:06
MinceR also, remember that jobs owns a big chunk of disney Feb 23 15:06
MinceR if he were nearly as anti-drm as he keeps saying he is, something must have changed already. Feb 23 15:06
MinceR nothing happened. Feb 23 15:06
Balrog I know … but we’ll see Feb 23 15:06
oiaohm disney funny enough also support open source. Feb 23 15:06
MinceR in the apple way? Feb 23 15:07
Balrog well music (100% of it) is drm-free. That isn’t a change? Feb 23 15:07
Balrog (on the itunes store) Feb 23 15:07
Balrog dropping DRM from apps ….. well the small independent developers are already up in arms Feb 23 15:07
Balrog (about crackulous and all) … it’s very easy to crack and distribute apps. Feb 23 15:08
MinceR it isn’t a change regarding disney and movies, which i was talking about. Feb 23 15:08
oiaohm Disney maintains some open source animation software packages. Feb 23 15:08
oiaohm Yes a lot like apple. Feb 23 15:08
MinceR dropping drm from music could have well been a result of other stores dropping it or not introducing it a long time ago. Feb 23 15:08
oiaohm Back Digatal rights management on one hand and then on the other help development of tools. Feb 23 15:08
schestowitz oiaohm: Disnet doesn’t support open source Feb 23 15:08
MinceR also, osx still has drm built into the executable format. Feb 23 15:09
schestowitz It uses some Linux for their non-Free software (merely a platform) Feb 23 15:09
Balrog you mean the encryption? That’s been reversed and is soo weak Feb 23 15:09
Balrog (app encryption) Feb 23 15:09
MinceR yet it’s there Feb 23 15:09
MinceR you can see the intention. Feb 23 15:09
schestowitz Balrog: not 100% DRM-free Feb 23 15:09
schestowitz Apple charges to have it removed (30 cents Feb 23 15:09
MinceR also, you can see their intention behind screwing with dtrace (or what’s it called) Feb 23 15:09
Balrog you didn’t hear of tiered pricing? Feb 23 15:09
Balrog (70c, $1, $1.30 , all DRM free) Feb 23 15:10
MinceR schestowitz: so people can still buy drm-ed music from itunes, for less? Feb 23 15:10
Balrog nope. Feb 23 15:11
schestowitz Balrog: They must have changed it Feb 23 15:11
Balrog you do have to pay if you already have drm’ed music Feb 23 15:11
schestowitz I think about January Feb 23 15:11
Balrog but if not, it’s all DRM-free Feb 23 15:11
Balrog yeah that’s when they did it Feb 23 15:11
schestowitz Defective by Design campaign protested as well. Feb 23 15:11
Balrog the announcement was at Macworld Feb 23 15:11
schestowitz Mac World… haha. Feb 23 15:11
Balrog yeah the last one :p Feb 23 15:12
schestowitz Kaput after issues, including the poisoning by MS employees (see the antitrust memo on schmoozing and crashing Apple events) Feb 23 15:12
Balrog I saw that Feb 23 15:12
schestowitz Mac ‘world’ Feb 23 15:12
schestowitz If the world is US, CA, Japan, AU, and EU Feb 23 15:12
Balrog I hear the economy has to do with that, as well as the poor timing of it (right after the holidays) Feb 23 15:13
schestowitz The ‘world’ doesn’t knoe about Apple Feb 23 15:13
Balrog they used to have Macworld France Feb 23 15:13
schestowitz That is, 80% of the world’s population doesn’t have their products Feb 23 15:13
schestowitz Ask people in China or Brazil about Apple Feb 23 15:13
schestowitz Can you imagine Apple fanbois in Bangalore? Feb 23 15:13
Balrog I know …. there are some everywhere Feb 23 15:15
schestowitz Look at the Microsoft Friedshill Spreading PR/propaganda in Zeedeenet: http://news.zdnet.com/2100-9595_22-271841.html Feb 23 15:15
schestowitz It’s like those cigarette companies… free cigarettes… love us, pay us, adore us… Feb 23 15:16
MinceR i thought the “world” was USA. Feb 23 15:16
schestowitz MinceR: depends where you ask Feb 23 15:16
oiaohm http://panda3d.org/  << disney open source.  Ie they developed that engine at first then released it to everyone. Feb 23 15:16
MinceR in the USA, of coure Feb 23 15:16
MinceR s/ure/urse/ Feb 23 15:16
schestowitz The world Feb 23 15:16
schestowitz Cyclic thing Feb 23 15:16
oiaohm And its not the first or the last time they will most likely do something like that. Feb 23 15:16
Balrog oh … about dtrace, and even gdb blocking, that’s easy to circumvent Feb 23 15:16
MinceR you mean there’s something outside the USA? :> Feb 23 15:16
MinceR Balrog: of course it’s easy Feb 23 15:16
MinceR Balrog: so it doesn’t only show their malevolence, it also shows their contempt Feb 23 15:17
schestowitz MinceR: yes, the nation called Africa Feb 23 15:17
schestowitz Although Palin claims she did not say that Feb 23 15:17
MinceR “we don’t want you to look inside our products and you’re so stupid you won’t find these checks we’ve built in” Feb 23 15:17
schestowitz There was apparently just an exaggeration suggesting she though Africa was a nation Feb 23 15:17
Balrog also it probably has to do with licensing …. maybe somewhere in their agreement with the media companies they are forbidden to do that Feb 23 15:17
MinceR maybe the “programmers” who “work” for crApple really wouldn’t Feb 23 15:17
Balrog also DVD player tracing is blocked. And I know that the agreements to get DVD-playback support ‘legally’ require you to block debugging Feb 23 15:18
MinceR i’m sure these agreements are one-sided, take it or leave it Feb 23 15:18
MinceR negotiation is impossible Feb 23 15:18
Balrog they are. The DVD agreements are probably the most well known Feb 23 15:18
MinceR they could have just used decss Feb 23 15:19
Balrog they could, but it’s legally in a grey area (in the US) Feb 23 15:19
schestowitz Wikileaks is down Feb 23 15:19
schestowitz MAJOR exposure: http://twitter.com/glynmoody/stat… Feb 23 15:19
schestowitz Political cooruption. Feb 23 15:19
Balrog wikileaks is up Feb 23 15:20
MinceR it’s not like they’re blinding white legally otherwise Feb 23 15:20
schestowitz http://wikileaks.org/wiki/Secret_report_revea… Feb 23 15:20
Balrog works here. Feb 23 15:20
schestowitz Get all the content properly? Feb 23 15:20
schestowitz “Error: 503 Service Unavailable “ Feb 23 15:20
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Balrog no error 503 here Feb 23 15:21
schestowitz It asks for donation Feb 23 15:21
Balrog it does, and below is the content Feb 23 15:22
schestowitz Oh, it works now Feb 23 15:22
schestowitz No idea why it did that.. Feb 23 15:23
Balrog schestowitz: have you written about the DVD ‘licensing’ system? Feb 23 15:24
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Balrog I’ll be back in an hour Feb 23 15:26
schestowitz UK Government plans to criminalise Japanese Anime/Manga fans < http://www.youtube.com/watch?hl=en-GB… > Feb 23 15:26
schestowitz Balrog: which system? Feb 23 15:27
Balrog the whole licensing system for DVD and BD: the agreements that vendors have to sign to include these technologies in products Feb 23 15:28
Balrog (S. Jobs called the Blu-ray licensing system “a bag of hurt”) Feb 23 15:29
Balrog but I’ll be back Feb 23 15:29
schestowitz New Climate Law Institute to launch multipronged legal attack on causes of climate change < http://www.climatesciencewatch.org/index.php/csw/deta… > Feb 23 15:31
schestowitz We’ve just made the front page of Linux Today again. Feb 23 15:32
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schestowitz It seems as though BN has done close to 2GB in the past 12 hours, which is good. Feb 23 16:32
schestowitz The Comes exhibits prove popular because they expose dark secrets that cannot be found somewhere else. We should do more of these really. Feb 23 16:32
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Balrog true. Feb 23 17:16
schestowitz Someone thinks I should disable comments in BN now Feb 23 17:19
schestowitz He’s venting about trolls being allowed Feb 23 17:19
Balrog not a good idea. Feb 23 17:22
Balrog removes transparency Feb 23 17:22
schestowitz What about IRC? Feb 23 17:22
Balrog ***** Feb 23 17:22
schestowitz ?? Feb 23 17:22
Balrog argh Feb 23 17:22
Balrog :( Feb 23 17:22
Balrog not goo Feb 23 17:22
Balrog good Feb 23 17:22
Balrog can you delete that from the log? Feb 23 17:22
schestowitz Sure Feb 23 17:23
Balrog fine. Somehow it got through :( Feb 23 17:23
schestowitz Strong password :-) Feb 23 17:23
schestowitz Not “tinkerbell” Feb 23 17:23
Balrog yeah but it’s not the one I use online anyway :) Feb 23 17:23
schestowitz BN didn’t get much trolling recently. Feb 23 17:24
schestowitz But one person who occasionally comments is pissed off. I mean, some commenters are attacked again.. Feb 23 17:24
schestowitz Back to ‘eet’ days when he would scare readers. Feb 23 17:24
schestowitz “Do you not have any common sense. All you’ve done is enable some troll to inject garbage like this into the record. Do you not realize you have to deny the astroturfers every opportunity to do their job. Why the f**k have an IRC channel at all if you are going to engage with them.” Feb 23 17:24
schestowitz “All you’ve done is reduce BN to the level of [...]  realize you don’t ever engage with someone who calls you a freetard, the clue is in the words ‘Alzheimers’, ‘freetard’.” Feb 23 17:24
schestowitz “Your first mistake was responding to the first anonymous comment. By responding you let ‘Dan O’Brian’ jump in to piss all over BN, and call *you* freetard. Have you learned nothing from being trolled on COLA. In case you haven’t realized it, BN is going [...], a platform for the astroturfers to beat up on anything non MICROS~1.” Feb 23 17:24
schestowitz “Anyone who posts there gets runs into the danger of being contaminated with their crap. Which is why I dropped out. [...] If you want to continue shit slinging with these, then that’s your business. This kind of ‘dialog’ contribute *nothing* to the cause. When are you going to get some sense and stop enabling the trolls.” Feb 23 17:24
schestowitz Maybe we can close comments on particular types of posts that attract the Novell boosters Feb 23 17:25
schestowitz They can speak out in IRC Feb 23 17:25
MinceR you could start banning trolls Feb 23 17:25
schestowitz MinceR: I’d rather not Feb 23 17:25
MinceR or even just autohide their messages, with a link to expand Feb 23 17:25
schestowitz No censorship Feb 23 17:25
schestowitz Disabling comments is no censorship if there’s still IRC Feb 23 17:26
MinceR the latter is no censorship, yet it makes it easier to skip the crap Feb 23 17:26
Balrog utypi could do that … like slashdot does Feb 23 17:26
MinceR indeed Feb 23 17:26
Balrog you* Feb 23 17:26
schestowitz They could game modding Feb 23 17:26
schestowitz Or whine if it’s done by writer who suppresses dissent Feb 23 17:27
schestowitz I know which items are damaging to Novell Feb 23 17:27
schestowitz Like this last one Feb 23 17:27
MinceR if the content can be shown, it isn’t really suppression :> Feb 23 17:27
Balrog show a snippet of the content Feb 23 17:27
schestowitz I knew when I posted it (I could feel it), that they won’t sit quielly and soon enough came ‘anonymous’ indeed Feb 23 17:27
Balrog heh Feb 23 17:32
Balrog I know some people with that attitude. Feb 23 17:32
schestowitz That ‘anonymous’ is morphing.. Feb 23 17:36
schestowitz I can see the host name Feb 23 17:36
Balrog I know. Feb 23 17:36
schestowitz It’s not someone new Feb 23 17:36
Balrog a known troll? Feb 23 17:36
schestowitz I don’t want to end comments because of this as that would mean they get their way (ruining the site). Feb 23 17:37
Balrog ending comments would not be good for transparency Feb 23 17:37
Balrog I know of several sites that don’t have comments; few people read them Feb 23 17:37
MinceR a snippet like “DURRRRRR HURRRRRRRR [Read more...]” ;) Feb 23 17:41
Balrog heh Feb 23 17:53
Balrog schestowitz: do IP’s go into the public IRC logs? Feb 23 17:56
Balrog I’d assume not Feb 23 17:56
MinceR it seems that the hostname is recorded as shown in the join message Feb 23 18:00
MinceR luckily, mine is rarely shown Feb 23 18:00
Balrog heh. Feb 23 18:02
Balrog I’m on a university network though Feb 23 18:02
Balrog it would be nice if that part could be anonymized Feb 23 18:03
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jose http://www.linuxtoday.com/developer… Feb 23 18:09
jose I posted a comment there about how Novell might have fired opensuse devs in order to focus on more ms-centric distros. Feb 23 18:10
jose perhaps opensuse is seeded enough Feb 23 18:10
jose time to put the dollars to better use Feb 23 18:10
Balrog heh Feb 23 18:11
Balrog there’s something about opensuse that attracts people to it Feb 23 18:11
schestowitz jose: I hear the layoffs will hit Germany Feb 23 18:12
schestowitz I.e. suse, for all I can tell Feb 23 18:12
schestowitz Yikes! “One of the biggest changes to this release of Coyote Linux is the use of C# as the primary development language used for most of the administration, configuration, and maintenance utilities.” Feb 23 18:14
schestowitz http://coyotelinux.com/2009/01/coyote-… Feb 23 18:14
Balrog eww Feb 23 18:14
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Balrog I won’t be using it :( Feb 23 18:15
schestowitz http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Jos… Feb 23 18:15
MinceR i’m glad i stopped using it long ago Feb 23 18:15
schestowitz http://wareseeker.com/free-joshua-jackson-net/ Feb 23 18:15
schestowitz Is this related? Feb 23 18:16
MinceR ho do they propose to fit it on one floppy now? Feb 23 18:16
schestowitz That’s the guy: http://www.eggheadcafe.com/software/aspnet/… Feb 23 18:16
schestowitz “I am currently working to get a test cluster online using Windows 2008 Datacenter x64 with SQL2005 Enterprise x64. Although the 2008 cluster is up and reports that it is running fine and shared storage is attached and online, SQL setup does not give me the option to create a failover cluster (the checkbox is greyed out).” Feb 23 18:17
schestowitz Seems like a bit of a MSFTer Feb 23 18:17
schestowitz It’s definitely him: “Joshua Jackson; Vortech Consulting” Feb 23 18:17
schestowitz So he loves Microsoft technologies in general, this he wants a c#-centric Linux Feb 23 18:18
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Balrog also it’s tied to MSVC Feb 23 18:19
Balrog which is definitely not FOSS Feb 23 18:19
balzac I’ve come up with a couple of bits of new language to use for proprietary software licenses Feb 23 18:21
balzac I call them archaic, paranoia-inducing, bad-vibe licenses Feb 23 18:21
Balrog well most of them Feb 23 18:22
balzac RMS calls them “dirty licenses” in his free software song Feb 23 18:22
Balrog I’ve seen some proprietary licenses that are quite clean Feb 23 18:22
Balrog like the one for the Crayon Physics Deluxe game Feb 23 18:22
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Balrog but those are in the minority Feb 23 18:23
balzac well, if the license is ready to invoke the force of federal law against an individual recipient of the licensed software, that’s a bad start Feb 23 18:23
Balrog well it basically says “don’t copy and redistribute” in addition to the usual warranty disclaimer Feb 23 18:24
schestowitz Hmmmmm….. Feb 23 18:24
schestowitz I guess there’s a cost in bringing over Wndows developers over. Feb 23 18:24
schestowitz They try to turn this /cheap/ Linux thing into another thing they already know Feb 23 18:25
schestowitz Using c# and all.. Feb 23 18:25
Balrog well that shouldn’t be necessary Feb 23 18:25
Balrog c# is quite new Feb 23 18:25
Balrog I’ll be back later Feb 23 18:25
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balzac http://digg.com/business_finance/If_You_S… Feb 23 18:47
balzac http://www.imagevat.com/picview.php?ig=146 Feb 23 18:47
balzac the original link to the pic got past its bandwidth limit Feb 23 18:48
schestowitz :-) Feb 23 18:49
schestowitz When was bailout renamed stimulus to make it sound positive? Feb 23 18:49
balzac well, it depends on how it’s distributed Feb 23 18:55
balzac the bailout was for bank executives to buy new yachts Feb 23 18:55
balzac maybe the “stimulus” will include a check to me Feb 23 18:55
balzac Obama has said that CEO pay must be capped for bailed-out banks, so now they wan’t to return the money so they can get more than half a million a year as CEO. Feb 23 18:56
schestowitz Start your copiers… print more cash Feb 23 18:56
balzac Turns out they didn’t need the money quite so badly as they thought. Feb 23 18:56
schestowitz Need is a subjective word. Larry Ellison needs a huge yacht Feb 23 18:57
balzac But what’s bothering me is not so much the economic issues, but whether or not Obama will close the secret prisons. Feb 23 18:57
balzac Or whether or not Bush will go on trial. Feb 23 18:57
balzac absolutely Feb 23 18:58
balzac I want Bush to be waterboarded until he confesses to hating America with a fiery passion Feb 23 18:58
balzac and spills the digits of all his secret bank accounts Feb 23 18:58
balzac waterboard that m*****f****r Feb 23 18:59
balzac Don’t stop until he gets enough! Feb 23 18:59
balzac we have yet to see the trend with Obama, whether he’s going to aid and abet the plundering of the working class by the elite, or whether we’re going to see some recovery of what has been stolen. Feb 23 19:05
schestowitz http://twitter.com/glynmoody/statuses/1241306029 “Buzzphrase of the Week: “Red Hat Announces Broad ISV Ecosystem is Virtualization-Ready” Wot, not clouds?” Feb 23 19:05
schestowitz You talk about Obama as though he’s special Feb 23 19:06
schestowitz These people have always been shaped, wrapped and sold by PR firms Feb 23 19:06
schestowitz After careful selection Feb 23 19:06
balzac we’ll see what happens. Feb 23 19:06
schestowitz And the Bush regime added remarks like “by Jesus” Feb 23 19:06
schestowitz Bush himself thinks of himself as a saint Feb 23 19:06
schestowitz But they are all contrrolled by other people Feb 23 19:06
schestowitz Else they go the way of Paul or Nader Feb 23 19:07
schestowitz Not media darling <=> funding <==> obedience Feb 23 19:07
balzac Roy, what about Kucinich? Feb 23 19:07
balzac you mention Ron Paul and Ralph Nader, but Kucinich is the man. Feb 23 19:07
schestowitz US shift spurs on global mercury pollution deal   < http://www.euractiv.com/en/environment/u… > Feb 23 19:08
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toros hi Feb 23 19:09
schestowitz balzac: I doubt anyone — Kucinich — can rise to power without endorsement from rogue interests Feb 23 19:09
balzac well, that’s one perspective Feb 23 19:10
schestowitz When a state become a rogue state, then it preserves its ill state until /PEOPLE/ (who are sadly brainwashed) weigh in. Feb 23 19:10
schestowitz Hey, toros Feb 23 19:10
amd-linux too sad most of you dont speak German – there is a beautiful article in the Financial Times Germany that tears MS apart and stomps on the fragments – Roy couldnt have written it sharper :-) Feb 23 19:10
amd-linux http://www.ftd.de/boersen_maerkte/aktien/ma… Feb 23 19:10
amd-linux It is called “How MS saves the world” Feb 23 19:11
toros amd-linux: danke… ;) Feb 23 19:11
amd-linux Totally bashing Vista, Vista 7 and MWS attitude in general – I m too lazy to translate it completely Feb 23 19:12
amd-linux Bitte :-) Feb 23 19:12
amd-linux Now FT is not really know for being biased against a giant like MS, so if quiet analysts start ranting…. Feb 23 19:13
schestowitz Sounds provoking. Feb 23 19:14
schestowitz See http://opendotdotdot.blogspot.com/2009/02/mi… Feb 23 19:14
schestowitz amd-linux: Times is kind of OK Feb 23 19:14
schestowitz They have in the Financial Times some guy called Richard Waters, IIRC, who is pro-Microsoft Feb 23 19:15
schestowitz Let me see what I can dig Feb 23 19:15
schestowitz Yeah… http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&c2co… Feb 23 19:16
amd-linux yeah, the guy who wrote this is probably new to the FT :-) and will receive a call from the editor after the editor received a call from Unterschleissheim (MS HO Germany) Feb 23 19:16
schestowitz He usually pops up in Microsoft talking point pieces and anti-Linux too Feb 23 19:16
toros amd-linux: thanks, it is funny (and true)… :) Feb 23 19:16
schestowitz toros: worry not, the ‘press’ is dying anyway Feb 23 19:16
schestowitz Times too was firing people massively (more than other sectors I imagine) Feb 23 19:17
amd-linux well, but I still like to read a physical newspaper… I am from the “old” generation”, I need some paper Feb 23 19:17
amd-linux I like the Kindle but still, a book is a book Feb 23 19:17
schestowitz It’s down to smaller voices, I reckon. I have good fun exposing bloggers who take Microsoft money to do their deeds. Feb 23 19:17
schestowitz Don’t you want to keep the paper? Feb 23 19:18
schestowitz How about bits of it? Feb 23 19:18
amd-linux :-) Feb 23 19:18
schestowitz If I love something I read, I find comfirt in the fact that I can bookmark or search for it later, maybe even copy a fragment. Feb 23 19:18
schestowitz *confirt Feb 23 19:18
schestowitz *comfort (right the third time) Feb 23 19:18
amd-linux BTW in one article you wrote “Groklow” ionstead of Groklaw – my English is not good enough but was this nintentional and what does it mean Feb 23 19:19
schestowitz I’ve been paperless since around 2002. Whatever paper I had left that’s necessary I just scanned. Feb 23 19:19
toros I prefer printing longer articles and read them while bathing Feb 23 19:19
amd-linux well in my profession, I love papaer :-) Feb 23 19:19
schestowitz I have no printer, so it only goes one way: physical -> digital Feb 23 19:19
toros I need a waterproof e-book ;) Feb 23 19:19
toros I mean e-book reader Feb 23 19:19
schestowitz You can’t organise paper in ‘sub-trees’.. nor search or share them digitally. Feb 23 19:19
amd-linux and I need paper – for annotations, comments etc Feb 23 19:20
schestowitz toros: for sauna or such stuff? Feb 23 19:20
schestowitz I used to think about it when I used my Palm by the poolside…but it’s stupid. Feb 23 19:20
amd-linux haha Kindle in the sauna :-) Feb 23 19:20
schestowitz Sounds bad.. Feb 23 19:20
amd-linux I am not sure if it will work in a 70 degree environment :-) Feb 23 19:21
schestowitz I think it would Feb 23 19:21
toros schestowitz: for reading in the bathtube Feb 23 19:21
schestowitz Just not comfortable to hold if you leave it off hand for a while Feb 23 19:21
amd-linux maybe, but when the sweat runs over it….. Feb 23 19:21
schestowitz Same with some chains or necklaces really, especially in dry Feb 23 19:22
amd-linux BTW, anything new about the ballmer-dropping-hardware-in-catalonia story? Feb 23 19:22
MinceR http://static.thepiratebay.o… Feb 23 19:22
schestowitz submit bug report to Jeff Bozo Feb 23 19:22
schestowitz Maybe they’ll do a Kindurable Feb 23 19:22
schestowitz Without DRM.. Feb 23 19:23
MinceR f’Kindurable? :> Feb 23 19:23
schestowitz amd-linux: only the Germans covered it in English. Feb 23 19:23
schestowitz MinceR: I saw that earlier.. Simon Phipps’ blog Feb 23 19:23
schestowitz f’Kindurable won’t last a minute in the sauna.. f’Kindurabl Feb 23 19:24
schestowitz http://thederringdos.com/wp-content/uplo… Feb 23 19:24
amd-linux very good cartoon, sums up the whole problem of an industry that is unable to realize that the old plan is not working any more Feb 23 19:27
*amd-linux has quit (“http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client”) Feb 23 19:29
schestowitz What’s up with Groklaw…? http://www.groklaw.net/index.php Too quiet… it’s a waste of potential right there, she should hand over some edit privs to the participants. Feb 23 19:35
schestowitz http://www.moneyweb.co.za/mw/view/mw… “I predicted open source software would go mainstream in 2009.” Feb 23 19:43
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schestowitz More ODF support (new): http://www.prweb.com/releases/elg… Feb 23 19:59
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schestowitz Nvidia cuts out reviewers for the GTS250  < http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/123/1051… > Feb 23 20:04
schestowitz Vodafone Said to Plan Hundreds of Job Cuts at U.K. Division  < http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=2060… > Feb 23 20:09
schestowitz Madoff Victims Face Grim Prospects in Court: Jane Bryant Quinn  < http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=2060121… > Feb 23 20:11
schestowitz Microsoft wields axe then twists knife <  http://www.daniweb.com/blogs/entry4028.html > Feb 23 20:14
schestowitz Google still snubs AGPL(v3). I’m surprised almost no-one reports about this anymore. Feb 23 20:19
amarsh04 I’m waiting to see if HP succeeds in dropping employee wages in .au Feb 23 20:25
amarsh04 they changed security companies, advertised above award wages, then offered reduced wages Feb 23 20:26
schestowitz They did this in the UK (wage drops) Feb 23 20:28
schestowitz They also sacked many people in EDS here (they acquired the company) Feb 23 20:29
amarsh04 quoting the letter in front of me: “we regret to inform you that we do not currently have a position available for you as a Security Officer at the EDS Lockleys site.” Feb 23 20:30
amarsh04 the site is 20000 square metres of office space Feb 23 20:31
schestowitz There was backlash. Let me find something… Feb 23 20:33
amarsh04 thanks Feb 23 20:33
schestowitz I’ve found the article I read at the time: HP’s EDS acquisition to kill 24,600 jobs < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/09/1… > Feb 23 20:34
schestowitz “With Mark Hurd “the butcher” leading consolidation efforts at HP, employees could all but brace themselves for some substantial job culling.” Feb 23 20:34
amarsh04 the 2008 EDS .au Christmas parties were also cancelled Feb 23 20:36
amarsh04 the other interesting thing is that EDS aren’t the sole tennants where I work Feb 23 20:51
amarsh04 the other tennant may object to changes that HP/EDS want to bring about Feb 23 20:51
schestowitz Oh, I see…. Feb 23 20:52
schestowitz If it makes you feel any better, the UK is in debt of $3 trillion according to one yardstick….and now this Hollywoodian spin on it:  Brown launches ‘recovery’ website < http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7905279.stm > Feb 23 20:53
amarsh04 the new security company will not have sufficient experienced staff to look after the site either Feb 23 20:54
schestowitz “Six out of every 10 employees stole company data when they left their job last year, said a study of US workers.” http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7902989.stm Feb 23 20:54
amarsh04 last IT jobs I had, I had root access to main machines until I finished… I left everything in the best possible shape and without stealing data Feb 23 20:57
schestowitz In one of my jobs I had the power to disconnect the whole university Feb 23 20:58
schestowitz It’s a lot to do with trust. Feb 23 20:59
amarsh04 yes, they probably had a  well-founded trust after I added back-up scripts to make it easier to restore recent versions of known good configurations Feb 23 21:00
amarsh04 I maintained dns/dhcp for adelaide.edu.au for a while Feb 23 21:00
schestowitz T: Security researcher Kaminsky pushes DNS patching < http://www.linuxworld.com.au/article/27734… > Feb 23 21:11
schestowitz “Old SuSE is dead and gone, and not coming back. ” http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?lt… Feb 23 21:11
schestowitz “WHY they still keep de icaza and his cronies ? How EXACTLY do they fit into their business plan ? How much revenue have they and their products generated for novell ? They have been with novell for years now, so surely they MUST be productive, right ?” Feb 23 21:12
schestowitz “Novell is going the same way as sun which harbours many ‘developers’ who write ‘la-la’ s/w that never sees the light of day ( and shouldn’t), earning great salaries at the expense of those that CAN contribute to their bottom line ( or top line).” http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3… Feb 23 21:12
schestowitz “Return SUSE to those that made it, what it once was, FREE of Microsoft !. So hold on to it to push ASP .Net BS !, good luck Novell, as much luck as you have had so far. Set SuSE free, and Goodbye !.” http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3… Feb 23 21:13
amarsh04 interesting reference on pretexting in .us: http://www.epic.org/alert/EPIC_… Feb 23 21:32
trmanco haha,funny, look at this Feb 23 21:39
trmanco “as a bonus, apparently some of the applications that would crash Feb 23 21:39
trmanco in Microsoft Windows, no longer crash in wine.” Feb 23 21:39
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toros good night Feb 23 21:45
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PetoKraus hmm i take it that the “de-class-lawsuit” thing of Vista Capable is not really Good Thing™ Feb 23 21:50
trmanco schestowitz, this link doesn’t work -> http://tech.yahoo.com/news/ap/20070928/… Feb 23 21:51
schestowitz Old stuff Feb 23 21:54
schestowitz I have the original too Feb 23 21:54
trmanco schestowitz, do you remember the formula? Feb 23 21:54
schestowitz Several Feb 23 21:54
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-tomaw-[Global Notice] Hi all, as you probably noticed our services took a short break there. They’re back online now and we’re investigating the cause of the crash. Thanks for using freenode and sorry for the inconvenience! Feb 23 22:00
schestowitz PetoKraus: doesn’t matter much Feb 23 22:00
*schestowitz hugs ChanServ (“where have you been !!”) Feb 23 22:00
schestowitz What BearingPoint’s Chapter 11 filing means to you and me http://blogs.zdnet.com/Mur… Feb 23 22:23
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Balrog_ hey everyone Feb 23 22:34
schestowitz http://withinreason.blogspot.com/2009/02/mand… Feb 23 22:35
schestowitz MinceR: “First Google had their “Google Desktop” that mostly went nowhere. Then came Chrome, the browser that threatened to “out cool” any other browser.” http://www.zdnetasia.com/techguide/opensource/… Feb 23 22:46
Balrog_ heh…kde on fedora is great Feb 23 22:47
Balrog_ chrome is windows-only Feb 23 22:47
Balrog_ so it leaves out ~15% of the userbase Feb 23 22:47
MinceR android on a laptop is like windows ce on a laptop Feb 23 22:48
MinceR chrome was designed to be non-portable Feb 23 22:48
Balrog_ as least Android is foss Feb 23 22:48
Balrog_ and people are working on taking it apart and using some parts to improve linux on the desktop Feb 23 22:49
trmanco http://www.chicadelatele.com/wp-cont… Feb 23 22:49
MinceR i hope this google linux nightmare won’t come true Feb 23 22:49
Balrog_ yeah Feb 23 22:50
Balrog_ but I don’t think Google can violate GPL Feb 23 22:50
MinceR somehow i don’t feel like having my apps migrate to a retarded gui and java Feb 23 22:50
Balrog_ with limits Feb 23 22:50
Balrog_ java has its problems Feb 23 22:50
Balrog_ :/ Feb 23 22:50
MinceR and google’s version of it adds its own problems Feb 23 22:55
Balrog_ tell me more Feb 23 22:56
MinceR for example, it has no JIT Feb 23 22:59
MinceR so we can expect performance penalties, but no improvements. Feb 23 22:59
MinceR otherwise, i’m not quite sure, but i don’t have much trust in this dalvik thing. Feb 23 22:59
schestowitz Mac neglect, Linux first:” dmd has an X86 code generator. It currently targets Windows and Linux. But now that the Mac is on X86 machines, it opens the possibility for a straightforward implementation of dmd on the Mac. The only way to find out how feasible it is is to get a Mac and get to work on it. ” http://www.ddj.com/development-… Feb 23 23:06
MinceR mac deserves to be neglected Feb 23 23:14
Balrog_ ehh I wouldn’t say so Feb 23 23:14
Balrog_ when it comes to compilers, stuff gets tricky Feb 23 23:14
Balrog_ (with any platform) Feb 23 23:15
*Casperin has quit (“Leaving”) Feb 23 23:18
Balrog_ also they’re working on an LLVM-backend D compiler Feb 23 23:26
schestowitz For some reason, Tab Mix in Firefox stopped expanding to a new row when space runs out. It does not obey the option and I don’t think I’ve changed anything. Feb 23 23:27
schestowitz Study: Federal Gov’t Can Save Billions in IT Spending < http://www.pcworld.com/article/159952/study_federal_govt_c… > Feb 23 23:28
MinceR http://miscellanea.wellingtongrey.n… Feb 23 23:36
schestowitz WTF? Another fools compares FOSS to communism: “The barrier between user and provider is eroded; a direct agreement between society members is maintained… Marx would have been a Firefox user. (188–89)” http://www.monthlyreview.org/090216grey.php Feb 23 23:39
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trmanco https://www.fsf.org/news/endsoftwa… Feb 23 23:43
oiaohm Supprisingly it takes ages to compress 10 GB of data.  So I have some time to kill. Feb 23 23:45
MinceR Marx is often misquoted. Feb 23 23:47
MinceR some time to kill people! Feb 23 23:48
schestowitz MinceR: *LOL* good cartoon Feb 23 23:49
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Balrog_ FOSS isn’t communism, because you aren’t forced to use it Feb 23 23:54
Balrog_ (or what most people call communism) Feb 23 23:54
Balrog_ and you aren’t forced to give back to the community if you don’t want to (though the GPL requires it if you want to take advantage of certain parts of FOSS) Feb 23 23:54
schestowitz Only if you modify Feb 23 23:56
Balrog_ if you modify certain parts Feb 23 23:56
Balrog_ that is Feb 23 23:56
Balrog_ or link to certain parts Feb 23 23:56
Balrog_ (I meant linking) Feb 23 23:56
schestowitz Yes, but it’s a tired myth Feb 23 23:57
schestowitz Communism is Apple/Microsoft Feb 23 23:57
Balrog_ I know I know…. Feb 23 23:57
schestowitz But the brainwash persists Feb 23 23:57
schestowitz They try to use the image of RMS to associated it with Marx Feb 23 23:57
schestowitz *associate Feb 23 23:57
Balrog_ true. Microsoft is the real problem because you have no choice with them Feb 23 23:57
Balrog_ you buy a PC, it has to come with Windows Feb 23 23:58
oiaohm RMS has always been a bit of a wild card. Feb 23 23:58
Balrog_ yeah :/ Feb 23 23:59
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