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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: March 3rd, 2009 – Part 3

Posted in IRC Logs at 11:42 pm by Dr. Roy Schestowitz


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schestowitz It doesn’t want Linux to take the lead Mar 03 13:31
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schestowitz toros: that’s an MS shill Mar 03 13:32
schestowitz Richard Steel. Mar 03 13:32
toros yes, I figured it out… :) Mar 03 13:32
schestowitz And the guy who quotes him is also considered somewhat of a lackey Mar 03 13:32
oiaohm tech point of view Linux is inside a year. Mar 03 13:32
schestowitz They are Microsoft’s cronies in the UK the people from Newham Mar 03 13:32
schestowitz Corruption there too Mar 03 13:32
schestowitz I wrote about it in BN Mar 03 13:32
schestowitz http://news.cnet.com/8301-1793… http://features.csmonitor.com/innovatio… Mar 03 13:33
*toros hates touchscreen :) Mar 03 13:34
schestowitz toros, oiaohm binky098: here’s what I wanted to show you before the site went down: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/02/2… Mar 03 13:34
MinceR oiaohm: m$ is so close behind? Mar 03 13:34
schestowitz It says a lot about what Novell thinks of SUSE Mar 03 13:35
schestowitz It’s just a carrier for stuff like SAP’s wares Mar 03 13:35
MinceR what’s novell carrying over it? Mar 03 13:35
schestowitz They want to distinguish themselves using .NET in Linux AND get hailed for it Mar 03 13:35
schestowitz MinceR: over SUSE? Mar 03 13:35
MinceR yes Mar 03 13:35
schestowitz Obama’s helicopter plans went to Iran < http://www.heise.de/english/n… > Mar 03 13:36
schestowitz MinceR: all sort of things that run find on centos Mar 03 13:36
schestowitz There’s still no ripoff SUSE Mar 03 13:36
schestowitz No-one wants to branch from it Mar 03 13:37
schestowitz And Novell makes it hard Mar 03 13:37
MinceR i understand, but what product does novell sell that relies on suse, but isn’t suse itself? Mar 03 13:37
toros “As a mixed-source company”, yes, we are all mixed source companies… :/ Mar 03 13:37
schestowitz RHEL on the other hand has xos, centos, startcom, scientific, etc. Mar 03 13:37
MinceR is netware still kept alive btw? Mar 03 13:37
schestowitz MinceR: they put it in OES Mar 03 13:37
schestowitz OES2 Mar 03 13:37
MinceR ic Mar 03 13:38
schestowitz MinceR: I read yesterday about OELing of Netware Mar 03 13:38
MinceR EOLing? Mar 03 13:38
schestowitz Which had me surprised cause I read nothing of that sort Mar 03 13:38
schestowitz Yes, weird. Mar 03 13:38
schestowitz let me find the comment Mar 03 13:38
binky098 MinceR: OES — the replacement for netware from memory relies on SUSE.  Had to do a look at this for work before they went MS route. sigh Mar 03 13:38
MinceR i can understand that, but what are they going to sell afterward? Mar 03 13:38
MinceR interesting, the netware i’ve seen only relied on dos and even that only for booting Mar 03 13:38
schestowitz http://boycottnovell.com/2009/03/02/… Mar 03 13:39
oiaohm Ms leads in some points still MinceR Mar 03 13:39
oiaohm Like Graphical not hiding kernel panics. Mar 03 13:39
schestowitz “I’m not a fan of the Novell/MS deal and I’m not happy about the EOL of Netware I’m a CNE 5&amp;6 and have always supported Netware and still do.” Mar 03 13:39
MinceR oiaohm: lol Mar 03 13:39
schestowitz See, some of our trolls/aggravators are merely people whose career depends on Novell Mar 03 13:40
oiaohm Power management is another. Mar 03 13:40
toros moonlight will always far behind silverlight. That’s just a trick of MS to prove that “Open source is years behind commercial products” Mar 03 13:40
toros the same goes for mono Mar 03 13:40
oiaohm Basically inside a year most of the major screwups inside Linux should disppear. Mar 03 13:40
MinceR so if novell EOLs netware and ignores suse, what are they going to make business from? Mar 03 13:40
schestowitz toros: yes Mar 03 13:40
schestowitz Also, it keeps regulators off Mar 03 13:40
schestowitz EU regulators threatened MS over Silverlight Mar 03 13:40
schestowitz So Microsoft points at Novell’s shoddy cr*pware Mar 03 13:40
MinceR i consider power management a part of hw support issue, which is mostly the job of hw vendors Mar 03 13:41
schestowitz The States (US) made similar complaint about Silver Lie Mar 03 13:41
MinceR (who do a pretty bad job at it) Mar 03 13:41
oiaohm Not exactly. Mar 03 13:41
schestowitz Miguel de Icaza jumped up in some silly article where he’s hailed as a hero (“I’ve got the solution”) Mar 03 13:41
oiaohm Linux kernel frameworks for it have had to be reworked MinceR Mar 03 13:41
schestowitz Spin doctors Mar 03 13:41
MinceR oiaohm: ic Mar 03 13:41
schestowitz Yes, yes.. we at Novell can save MS from regulators Mar 03 13:41
MinceR oiaohm: but that has already happened, hasn’t it? Mar 03 13:41
schestowitz Noorda must be spinning in his grave Mar 03 13:41
oiaohm There is more in the pipe line MinceR Mar 03 13:42
schestowitz De Icaza is also against the EU regulators Mar 03 13:42
MinceR ic Mar 03 13:42
schestowitz What a disgrace Mar 03 13:42
oiaohm Currently there is no good power management for GPU’s. Mar 03 13:42
oiaohm In the Linux design. Mar 03 13:42
oiaohm Yep GPU can suck down more power than everythign on your motherboard. Mar 03 13:42
MinceR that’s to be expected anyway, isn’t it? Mar 03 13:43
oiaohm Windows has had some poorly designed power management on GPU’s. Mar 03 13:43
MinceR when some GPUs get special power connectors because the bus can’t provide enough Mar 03 13:43
oiaohm Poorly designed is better than none. Mar 03 13:43
MinceR ic Mar 03 13:43
MinceR how much of that is in the drivers and how much of it is in windows itself? Mar 03 13:43
oiaohm drivers power management is triggered by the windows interfaces for it. Mar 03 13:44
toros Linux is far before Windows in many aspects… even on the desktop… Mar 03 13:44
schestowitz MS investors just mailed me Mar 03 13:44
schestowitz Microsoft wants RIM Mar 03 13:44
toros but people decide not just based on the technology itself Mar 03 13:44
schestowitz Monopolistic idiocy Mar 03 13:45
oiaohm Most points MS leads will be gone before end of year. Mar 03 13:45
oiaohm MS lossing in a market must buy someone doing better. Mar 03 13:45
toros I hope ARM netbooks will be a great hit Mar 03 13:45
MinceR can they even afford RIM now? Mar 03 13:45
oiaohm Funny thing is research on gpu powermanagement has been interisting. Mar 03 13:47
oiaohm Some times prototype linux kernels running are pulling down less power than XP in power saving for video card even that the machine is in use. Mar 03 13:47
schestowitz MinceR: I thought the same thing. Mar 03 13:48
oiaohm So by end of year MS is going to have some large headaches. Mar 03 13:48
MinceR m$ can be trusted to screw things up real hard. Mar 03 13:48
schestowitz MS investors are losing their undies Mar 03 13:48
schestowitz They want revenge Mar 03 13:48
MinceR they should realize they’ve lost and sell. Mar 03 13:49
oiaohm They are not quite that bad off yet. Mar 03 13:49
schestowitz In some areas they are Mar 03 13:49
MinceR anything else is just lying to themselves and causing even more losses. Mar 03 13:49
schestowitz They can’t expect to win the eb by renaming products Mar 03 13:49
schestowitz And that’s just what they do. Mar 03 13:49
schestowitz MSN is a money SINK Mar 03 13:49
schestowitz Time to close down portions of the company Mar 03 13:49
schestowitz Cringely said so too Mar 03 13:49
schestowitz And he’s watched MS for decades Mar 03 13:49
schestowitz He suggested cutting off half the company to be agile Mar 03 13:50
schestowitz ballmer has a different view Mar 03 13:50
schestowitz “if we’re not growing, then we lose” (something along those lines Mar 03 13:50
*schestowitz looks forward to patent bill news today Mar 03 13:51
schestowitz vis-a-vis Cringely (Mark): http://www.cringely.com/2009/03/and-a-… Mar 03 13:53
toros I don’t know how popular Windows 7 will be… Mar 03 13:54
toros Maybe it will be a great hit :( Mar 03 13:54
oiaohm If windows 7 is not a hit MS hits the wall. Mar 03 13:55
schestowitz http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?sect… “American Express has sent out letters to select customers telling them if they will pay off their balance and close their accounts by April 30, 2009, American Express will give them $300″ Mar 03 13:56
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toros as far as I can see people believe that Windows 7 will be something fantastic Mar 03 13:56
schestowitz Oh dear… Mar 03 13:56
toros this time Microsofts marketing team did a much better job Mar 03 13:56
schestowitz toros: which people? Windows enthusiasts who download betas and have powerful PCs? Mar 03 13:57
schestowitz /s/marketing/astroturfing/ Mar 03 13:57
schestowitz They bribed bloggers too Mar 03 13:57
schestowitz toros: as an exercise, look for Vista revews from 2006 Mar 03 13:57
toros schestowitz: I did it ;) Mar 03 13:58
schestowitz They are mostly positive. Go ahead and check. That’s marketing/astroturf Mar 03 13:58
toros they wrote that Vista will be faster than XP Mar 03 13:58
schestowitz Yes, of course. Mar 03 13:58
toros and how user friendly it will be Mar 03 13:58
schestowitz It makes you coffee, too Mar 03 13:58
schestowitz It’s all PR.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3LSyck0YTE Mar 03 13:59
schestowitz Tech news grind to a halt this month. Mar 03 14:00
toros Windows 7 is the new name of Mojave? ;) Mar 03 14:01
schestowitz Yes Mar 03 14:02
MinceR i thought it was the new name of Vista SP3 or so Mar 03 14:02
schestowitz And new marketing campaign Mar 03 14:02
schestowitz They tried to rename VIsta because it got a bad image Mar 03 14:02
schestowitz Then they slimmed it down a bit, bribed bloggers and made distinctive UI changes Mar 03 14:03
schestowitz I’m still not sure what Vista7 give that Vista does not have which is /also/ significance Mar 03 14:03
schestowitz Other than a different name… Mar 03 14:03
schestowitz And some GUIs that can be done within days Mar 03 14:03
schestowitz It’s easy to influence and bribe when you have a small crowd of enthusists Mar 03 14:04
schestowitz It gets out of control when OEMs sell it to the ‘masses’ Mar 03 14:04
schestowitz Especially because people have blogs these days so you can’t speak ‘for’ them by inviting journos to Redmod Mar 03 14:04
schestowitz (mond Mar 03 14:04
schestowitz Is Vista really a bigger pile of crap than Second Life and Google Lively?  < http://www.daniweb.com/blogs/entry4066.html > Mar 03 14:07
toros “Talking of good causes, the second placing of the One Laptop Per Child (OLPC) project seems particularly churlish.” Mar 03 14:08
toros ohhh, the OLPC project… Mar 03 14:08
toros “Because we are a small, non-profit organization” Ohhh, yeah, small NPO… Mar 03 14:09
toros they mean “an innovative microsoft dealer”: http://www.microsoft.com/presspas… Mar 03 14:10
schestowitz They got derailed Mar 03 14:10
schestowitz They meant well Mar 03 14:10
*MinceR sums up that daniweb article: “waaaaaah, my favorite vista was recognized for the failure it was!” Mar 03 14:10
schestowitz But the criminals attacked the project, for profit Mar 03 14:10
*MinceR calls the waaaaambulance Mar 03 14:11
schestowitz toros: see http://boycottnovell.com/2009/01/03… Mar 03 14:12
toros schestowitz: thanks… Mar 03 14:17
toros I liked the basic idea of OLPC Mar 03 14:18
toros but I don’t like what they made of it Mar 03 14:19
schestowitz So philosophy? Mar 03 14:22
toros I like their mission statement: http://laptop.org/en/vision/index.shtml Mar 03 14:24
toros and I think it’s a good idea Mar 03 14:24
toros but the SugarUI is just horrible: it is ugly, slow and unfriendly Mar 03 14:25
toros and using doc as default format Mar 03 14:25
toros and then installing Windows XP on the machines… Mar 03 14:26
toros the vision is very far from the reality Mar 03 14:26
schestowitz It used ODF Mar 03 14:27
MinceR i liked the basic idea of OLPC, but i didn’t like that they omitted the ethernet port :> Mar 03 14:28
toros schestowitz: then I was wrong. I haven’t really followed the project. Mar 03 14:31
toros http://polishlinux.org/apps/window-ma… Mar 03 14:31
toros this was maybe the last time I read about it :) Mar 03 14:32
schestowitz re: Novell’s layoff of Luc: “Is this yet another sneaky way of disabling Linux through the back door? Collect experts under your tainted aegis and when the re-employment market is bad, sack them.” http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_stor… Mar 03 14:32
binky098 roy: Novell layoffs — anything further from your inside contact ?  They hinted at 7 – 8 million USD for layoffs in Q1 numbers Mar 03 14:34
schestowitz What do you mean? Please explain, this is interesting. Mar 03 14:36
binky098 In Q1 result transcript, the CFO i think mentioned that novell had allocated 7 – 8 millions USD for severance pay Mar 03 14:37
schestowitz The reductions are inevitable, no matter how many weeks NOVL decides to wait. They already fail to pay some people and the press talks about the layoffs as though it’s obviously happening (no word on when) Mar 03 14:37
schestowitz Let me check he script Mar 03 14:37
binky098 Along with maintaining double digit non-GAAP profit.  So if revenue is going down — only way to do that is layoffs Mar 03 14:37
MinceR could they predict the crisis for that sacking strategy? Mar 03 14:38
schestowitz http://seekingalpha.com/article/123039-novell… Mar 03 14:39
schestowitz “We incurred 8 million of restructuring charges in the first quarter most of which represented a continuation of our 2008 restructuring activities and we expect to incur 5 million to 7 million of charges in the second quarter. We are still evaluating what additional charges we may incur in the second half of fiscal 2009. Total headcount at the end of the quarter was approximately 3900, down from approximately 4000 in the prior quar Mar 03 14:39
schestowitz ter.” Mar 03 14:39
binky098 So i read restructuring = layoffs. Anyone else concur? Mar 03 14:40
schestowitz That would not be more than 200 heads Mar 03 14:41
schestowitz (or Hovsepian’s bonuses) Mar 03 14:41
schestowitz “Turning to our balance sheet and cash flow, cash and short-term investments were $1 billion in line with the prior quarter. “ Mar 03 14:41
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schestowitz “AND  short-term investments”? Mar 03 14:42
schestowitz What does that mean? Mar 03 14:42
schestowitz How much is cash? Mar 03 14:42
schestowitz “This quarter’s cash flow included a $25 million payment from Microsoft for the first tranche of our extended agreement.” Mar 03 14:43
schestowitz Hehe. Mar 03 14:43
binky098 Here’s the interesting bit on layoffs ( talking about restructuring charges ) CFO We are still evaluating what additional charges we may incur in the second half of fiscal 2009. Mar 03 14:44
schestowitz February 2009 donation: Wolvix GNU/Linux receives US$200.00 http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php… Mar 03 14:44
schestowitz binky098: yes, I saw that Mar 03 14:44
schestowitz They make it cryptic Mar 03 14:45
schestowitz If deciphered, it means something like: “CFO: we’re sharpening or axe and determining how many jobs to slash next” Mar 03 14:45
binky098 So if novell is not on course to meet 10% or above non-GAAP operating profit for FY09, they’re going to chop heads.  Must be a great feeling working for them at moment with that hanging over your head Mar 03 14:45
schestowitz Naa.. Mar 03 14:46
toros what’s so special in wolvix? Mar 03 14:46
schestowitz They go on vacation in Cuncun, Mar 03 14:46
schestowitz Must be fun ther.e Mar 03 14:46
schestowitz http://www.kandrtravel.com/cancun-al… Mar 03 14:46
schestowitz Wolvix is made by a painter from Norway.. good distro… I think Slackware-based. Mar 03 14:47
schestowitz “Estrella Roja. Estrella Roja (formerly Red Star GNU/Linux) is a Debian-based distribution and live CD for the desktop. Developed in Argentina, it is primarily designed for Spanish-speaking users.” Watch the Wallpaper Mar 03 14:48
schestowitz http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Che… Mar 03 14:48
toros it sounds like an n+1 SLAX clone… Mar 03 14:49
binky098 rats — meetings call.  Have to drop.  Later everyone Mar 03 14:50
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toros Ohhh, I know why Wolvix gets the donation: http://wolvix.org/article.php?id=21 Mar 03 14:51
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schestowitz Yes, I know.. Mar 03 14:54
schestowitz http://wolvix.org/about.php Mar 03 14:55
schestowitz Hehe. ” Bodhi.zazen: Wolvix propagandist, development tester and a generally helpful guy. “ Mar 03 14:55
schestowitz “Some months later when Wolvix version 1.0.2 was completed it was submited to be listed at DistroWatch and was requested to be reviewed at TuxMachines. The review at TuxMachines was overwhelmingly positive and the Wolvix userbase grew drastically. What had been a project only know to a handful of people was now getting more widespread attention. “ Mar 03 14:56
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PetoKraus right so Mar 03 15:11
PetoKraus let’s launch a campaign “Remember 17th of April” Mar 03 15:11
schestowitz http://www.muckety.com/Intellectual… Mar 03 15:14
schestowitz What’s/was on 17th of April? Mar 03 15:15
PetoKraus The court further announced that the verdict is due on April 17 at 11am and ended the trial. Mar 03 15:23
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PetoKraus TPB trial verdict Mar 03 15:23
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schestowitz End of life for Red Hat Enterprise Linux 2.1 < http://www.heise.de/english/newsti… > Mar 03 15:34
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schestowitz Apple Store goes down < http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/… > Mar 03 16:00
schestowitz “A BELGIAN court has decided that the search engine outfit Yahoo has been uncooperative by not handing over details about users who have been committing fraud to Inspector Knacker of the Brussels Yard.” http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/new… Mar 03 16:01
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twitter “Is Vista really a bigger pile of crap than Second Life and Google Lively?”  Yes, the other two entertain people. Mar 03 16:49
twitter M$FT is a market leader today, down 0.9% to new 52 week lows. Mar 03 16:50
twitter $15.66 and sinking like a stone when I looked. Mar 03 16:50
twitter waiting for it to hit $14.50, or less than 25% of their Y2K value. Mar 03 16:51
twitter that should be entertaining. Mar 03 16:51
MinceR i’ve looked at them in google finance and compared them to some others, didn’t get much out of it Mar 03 16:55
twitter Here’s another market leader, AutoZone.  http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=2… Mar 03 16:57
twitter they are at record highs as people fix their cars rather than buy new ones Mar 03 16:57
twitter imagine that. Mar 03 16:57
twitter I think they are also one of the companies that SCO threatened, a GNU/Linux user. Mar 03 16:58
twitter That makes them ready for the current depression in two ways. Mar 03 16:58
schestowitz Novell trademarks, copyrights, patents, and C# bindings in KDE’s Phonon: http://tinyurl.com/yjnm2y Mar 03 17:04
schestowitz twitter: same with footwear Mar 03 17:05
schestowitz And healthcare Mar 03 17:05
schestowitz Anything that ‘fixes’ stuff. Mar 03 17:05
schestowitz Linux ‘fixes’ old PCs too Mar 03 17:05
schestowitz Some Astroturfers have just mailed me. Mar 03 17:10
schestowitz Hehe. I’ll leak it to expose them! :-) Mar 03 17:10
schestowitz Someone also leaked to me corruption in Portugal (procurement). Busy day… Mar 03 17:11
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schestowitz Windows security menace makes a good reason to make the move (aggressive picture): http://boycottnovell.com/2009/03/03… Mar 03 17:17
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PetoKraus LOL Mar 03 17:31
schestowitz They’ll get publicity… just a moment.. Mar 03 17:33
schestowitz Not the publicity they asked for Mar 03 17:33
schestowitz http://boycottnovell.com/2009/03… :-D Mar 03 17:35
amarsh04 schestowitz there was one Novell video I loved… the linux one done in the style of the lord of the rings Mar 03 17:43
schestowitz Yes, it’s an old one. Mar 03 17:45
schestowitz I put it there in early 2007 Mar 03 17:45
schestowitz When companies start paying people to fake grassroots and to seed junk, then it’s astroturfing, by definition. Mar 03 17:46
amarsh04 in .au political parties have been severely embarrassed when the opposing parties find out the background of the actors making the claims on political ads Mar 03 17:47
Balrog hello everyone Mar 03 17:57
amarsh04 hi Balrog Mar 03 17:58
Balrog Qt 4.5 is out Mar 03 18:01
schestowitz Hey there. Mar 03 18:02
schestowitz Yes, I saw that Mar 03 18:02
Balrog hey schestowitz Mar 03 18:02
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trmanco hello Mar 03 18:33
Balrog hi trmanco Mar 03 18:33
trmanco hello Balrog Mar 03 18:34
Balrog anything interesting? Mar 03 18:35
trmanco http://blogs.computerworld.com/linux… Mar 03 18:35
MinceR yay, now we’ll have not one LF sites, but two! Mar 03 18:36
trmanco lol Mar 03 18:37
MinceR s/tes/te/ Mar 03 18:37
MinceR strange, the sourceforge.net footer still links to linux.com Mar 03 18:41
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schestowitz If all goes well, maybe I can get MS sued by its investors Mar 03 18:44
schestowitz A lobby of them seems interested in the frauds. Mar 03 18:45
schestowitz MinceR: interesting indeed. Mar 03 18:45
Balrog if MS tanks, I wonder what would happen at the next investors meeting Mar 03 18:45
Balrog probably not much though :/ Mar 03 18:45
MinceR throwing of chairs Mar 03 18:46
MinceR if monkey boy is still around Mar 03 18:46
MinceR schestowitz: if you can, do get them sued by their investors Mar 03 18:46
Balrog that wouldn’t hurt. Make sure that everything is done properly Mar 03 18:47
Balrog so that some judge doesn’t throw out the case for some reason Mar 03 18:47
schestowitz They give Microsoft money Mar 03 18:48
schestowitz Microsoft returns them half Mar 03 18:48
schestowitz What’s at Microsoft? Mar 03 18:48
schestowitz Well, fraud to start off with… bonuses to execs Mar 03 18:48
schestowitz Did you know how much Bill&Steve have stashed over the years? Mar 03 18:48
schestowitz While the company apparently lost billions? Mar 03 18:49
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trmanco http://www.linfo.org/linux_my… Mar 03 18:52
Omar87 Hi all Mar 03 18:53
Balrog hey Omar87 Mar 03 18:55
Balrog schestowitz: B&M Gates Foundation ………? Mar 03 18:56
schestowitz Foundry Mar 03 18:56
schestowitz What about it…? Mar 03 18:56
schestowitz Someone sent me the addresses of patent trolls Mar 03 18:56
Balrog some say they use it to protect the money from taxes and do other nefarious stuff Mar 03 18:56
schestowitz Some are neighbours of B&M and their foundation. Mar 03 18:56
Balrog heh, not surprising Mar 03 18:57
schestowitz Balrog: yes, we wrote about it Mar 03 18:57
schestowitz Do a search on BN Mar 03 18:57
Balrog I probably saw it Mar 03 18:57
schestowitz E.g. http://boycottnovell.com/2008/01/02/t… Mar 03 18:57
schestowitz More in the links at the bottom (posts referencing this older one) Mar 03 18:58
Balrog schestowitz: the blogging software you use for BN is your own or some other? (meaning the php code) Mar 03 19:01
Balrog -?- Mar 03 19:04
schestowitz It’s WordPress Mar 03 19:04
MinceR iirc it’s wordpress Mar 03 19:04
MinceR :) Mar 03 19:04
schestowitz I’m involved in the community of it Mar 03 19:04
schestowitz SInce 2004 Mar 03 19:04
trmanco it schestowitz code :-P Mar 03 19:04
trmanco ‘s* Mar 03 19:05
schestowitz Hardly. Discussion about some, bug reports, patches I didn’t get to write Mar 03 19:05
Balrog cool. Mar 03 19:08
Balrog it’s interesting how greatly wordpress-based sites can vary Mar 03 19:09
schestowitz Can you help me proofread? Have a look: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/0… Mar 03 19:14
schestowitz To the best of my knowledge, all the facts should be defensible and I added references leading to the original articles and quotes from those involved. Mar 03 19:16
Balrog the terminology ‘Microsoft watchers’ sounds strange; I’d look for a synonymous term Mar 03 19:16
Balrog otherwise it’s ok spelling and grammar wise Mar 03 19:18
schestowitz Watchers is normal Mar 03 19:20
schestowitz For me anyway Mar 03 19:20
schestowitz Mary Jo Foley calls herself that Mar 03 19:20
schestowitz Same with Ms-watch Mar 03 19:20
Balrog for some reason it sound more professional not using that term Mar 03 19:20
schestowitz It says watcher, not “hawk” Mar 03 19:20
schestowitz Maybe I’ve become too accustomed to hearing the term Mar 03 19:21
schestowitz I’m prepared to stick with it. Mar 03 19:21
Balrog OK. Mar 03 19:21
schestowitz http://www.techflash.com/microsoft/Mi… “Probably it is time to cut 10% top executives salary at MS. “ Mar 03 19:22
schestowitz Temps.. no assurance, no benefits… and Microsoft targets *them*, no the managers Mar 03 19:23
schestowitz Temps are ripe to endless abuse Mar 03 19:23
schestowitz I think it’s calls scuds or scads Mar 03 19:23
schestowitz Caterpillar was convicted for it Mar 03 19:23
schestowitz Labour abuse Mar 03 19:23
schestowitz bbl Mar 03 19:27
trmanco http://tech.slashdot.org/articl… Mar 03 20:03
trmanco http://www.esop.pt/?p=92 Mar 03 20:06
tessier_ http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl… Mar 03 20:10
tessier_ WTF? Mar 03 20:10
trmanco http://digg.com/linux_unix/Seriou… Mar 03 20:13
trmanco tessier_, what? Mar 03 20:14
tessier_ trmanco: Shills. Mar 03 20:14
tessier_ Obvious shills. Mar 03 20:14
balzac I often imagine what it must be like for Microsoft’s dupes Mar 03 20:15
balzac They think to themselves “I’m going to get paid to say yes to this software? Hell yeah!” Mar 03 20:15
balzac Then they find out the reason they got so much incentive – people actually care about software freedom. Mar 03 20:16
balzac Then they probably become aware they’ve done wrong, but the money is good and it’s only software, so they fight on behalf of Microsoft. Mar 03 20:17
trmanco Ficha de Adesão  Passo 1 de 6 Mar 03 20:18
trmanco Antes de iniciar o processo de registo, verifique as configurações do Internet Explorer (Browser) de acordo com o seu sistema operativo: Mar 03 20:18
trmanco –  Windows 2000/XP     –  Windows Vista Mar 03 20:18
trmanco De seguida preencha o formulário. Os campos cujo título se encontra a negrito são obrigatórios. Mar 03 20:18
balzac People with nefarious intentions regarding software generally choose the most technically illiterate people to use. Mar 03 20:18
trmanco https://www.vortal.biz/Portal.WebUI/App/C… Mar 03 20:18
trmanco .NET fail Mar 03 20:19
balzac So many of my friends are tired of hearing me talk about software. Their attitude is that “it’s only software” and that I must be crazy to care so much. Mar 03 20:20
tessier_ balzac: Do people actually care about software freedom? Not many it seems. We are branded zealots. Mar 03 20:20
balzac They’ve been taught to think of software as nothing important by proprietary software companies Mar 03 20:20
tessier_ badserii: I know what you mean. Mar 03 20:20
tessier_ er..balzac Mar 03 20:20
tessier_ They don’t realize how important software is to our daily lives now. Mar 03 20:20
balzac tessier_: Mar 03 20:20
balzac they also refuse to acknowledge how complex it is Mar 03 20:21
balzac They say “windows is good enough for what I do” Mar 03 20:21
balzac I tell them “what you don’t know _can_ hurt you”. Mar 03 20:21
amarsh04 good quote 14 lines above, balzac, mind if I steal it? Mar 03 20:22
balzac And I tell them “your brain is being trained to be non-inquisitive and conforming by software created by programmers whose intention is to subjugate you psychologically and commercially” Mar 03 20:22
balzac help yourself Mar 03 20:22
tessier_ balzac: Suggesting that people think for themselves has historically been a losing proposition. Mar 03 20:24
balzac tessier_: I agree Mar 03 20:25
balzac It’s because thinking burns a lot of calories. It’s like asking people to lift weights. Mar 03 20:25
amarsh04 I keep thinking of monty python’s life of brian “we’ve all got to think for ourselves” Mar 03 20:25
balzac The key is to fool their mind into an effortless change of opinion or attitude Mar 03 20:25
balzac If you make them think critically, they’ll shut you down to save calories Mar 03 20:26
amarsh04 but if you can make someone realise that getting more “stuff” won’t make them happier and will help wreck the planet, you’ve helped them and the rest of the planet Mar 03 20:28
balzac people ought to be fooled or entertained to learn better Mar 03 20:29
balzac let’s face it, most people are lazy fools and that will never change Mar 03 20:29
balzac Lao Tzu’s Tao Te Ching is aware of this, and does not seek to subject people to a campaign of mental and moral improvement, but rather to calm their wills and guide them with the least possible effort Mar 03 20:30
Balrog yeah, until they get burned by stuff not working &c. Mar 03 20:30
balzac That’s why most activism fails Mar 03 20:30
tessier_ Balrog: They don’t get burned by stuff not working. Or they don’t see it as being burned anyway. Mar 03 20:31
tessier_ They perceive it like getting a flat tire. Mar 03 20:31
tessier_ Michelin didn’t burn you because they tire went flat. It’s just one of those things that happens. Mar 03 20:31
tessier_ They don’t realize that Michelin could be making puncture proof tires which could be sold for even less money if only people were asking for them. Mar 03 20:32
tessier_ s/they/the/ Mar 03 20:32
balzac puncture-proof tires might cost more to make, or tear up the roads faster, but in the case of software, it’s much easier to improve and reduce costs Mar 03 20:35
balzac It’s easier to assess the value of material goods than software Mar 03 20:35
tessier_ In my analogy they are cheaper and better all around. But you are right about it being difficult to assess the value of software. Mar 03 20:36
balzac They’ve been fooled to think of software in a materialistic way by the shrink-wrapped boxes and the rest of the marketing hype Mar 03 20:40
balzac That tells me that free software needs fancier packaging (environmentally friendly) Mar 03 20:41
balzac What if Emacs came in a very fancy box? Mar 03 20:41
balzac And a separate and very fancy box for bash, and each of the GNU utilities? Mar 03 20:42
balzac people would love and cherish these programs Mar 03 20:42
balzac especially if you made them fork over their hard-earned dollars Mar 03 20:42
Balrog I’ve heard complaints Mar 03 20:42
tessier_ of? Mar 03 20:44
Balrog windows not working properly, data loss, etc Mar 03 20:47
Balrog especially with vista Mar 03 20:47
tessier_ I’ve heard such complaints for 20 years. It hasn’t changed a thing. Mar 03 20:53
tessier_ I need to stop hanging out in channels like this bitching about windows and get out into the real world and implement more Linux solutions. Mar 03 20:53
balzac Make money from it Mar 03 21:07
tessier_ I do. Mar 03 21:08
balzac I’ve got to get back to pushing GNU/Linux in the financial servicesarena Mar 03 21:08
balzac me too, but not enough Mar 03 21:08
tessier_ I make plenty. But most of the money I make goes to other people. But I am planning a return back to running my own company. Mar 03 21:08
tessier_ I’m tired of making other peoples dreams come true. It sucks. Mar 03 21:08
balzac That’s what I’m working on Mar 03 21:10
balzac http://www.disruptech.com Mar 03 21:10
balzac I want to do consulting for enterprise clients (financial services companies) who need to switch to Redhat Mar 03 21:11
balzac And make money a commission from saving them money Mar 03 21:11
amarsh04 sounds good Mar 03 21:16
trmanco http://global.msi.com.tw/index.php?… Mar 03 21:17
trmanco isn’t this the company that said that the return rate of GNU/Linux netbooks where 4x higher then Windows netbooks Mar 03 21:17
trmanco no they make some kinda of a mini os based on Linux, hmm, interesting Mar 03 21:18
balzac There is a different tune from before and after the crash of the economy Mar 03 21:22
balzac Microsoft certainly drummed up a lot of doubts about GNU/Linux on netbooks, but now they’re being ignored because there’s blood in the water. Mar 03 21:23
Balrog and ARM netbooks won’t be able to run windows Mar 03 21:27
Balrog or will they? Mar 03 21:27
*_Hicham_ (n=hicham@ has joined #boycottnovell Mar 03 21:28
_Hicham_ Hi All Mar 03 21:28
_Hicham_ who is here? Mar 03 21:28
Balrog me Mar 03 21:28
_Hicham_ hi balrog Mar 03 21:29
_Hicham_ how r u doing? Mar 03 21:29
Balrog good Mar 03 21:30
_Hicham_ nice to hear Mar 03 21:30
Balrog busy =\ Mar 03 21:30
_Hicham_ ok Mar 03 21:31
Balrog I’ll bbl Mar 03 21:38
*ushimitsudoki (n=ushimits@p6145-ipad08yosemiya.okinawa.ocn.ne.jp) has joined #boycottnovell Mar 03 21:39
_Hicham_ ok Mar 03 21:49
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schestowitz SGI lays off another 9 per cent < http://www.theregister.co.uk/20… > Mar 03 22:33
amarsh04 am listening to one of the ex-Mitsubishi motors IT workers (who worked at Adelaide Uni prior to that) on the radio Mar 03 22:35
schestowitz Seas are drying up: Who wants to read about Lake Balkhash? < http://www.registan.net/index.php/2009/03… > Mar 03 22:37
amarsh04 Mitsubishi motors closed their local assembly plant just over a year ago, they closed their foundry in the year before that Mar 03 22:37
schestowitz Do they still sell just cars? Mar 03 22:38
schestowitz I think they moved to other areas, no? Mar 03 22:38
amarsh04 yes, still selling cars from Japan Mar 03 22:38
amarsh04 there is still Mitsubishi electric who make everything from cd-rom drives to generators for power stations Mar 03 22:39
schestowitz Won’t be long because Chinese cars dominate perhaps Mar 03 22:40
schestowitz Working conditions there are horrific though. Mar 03 22:40
amarsh04 general motors holdens still assemble cars locally (30 km from where I live) Mar 03 22:41
schestowitz Why Do We Assume No One Is Fixing The Financial Crisis? < http://techdirt.com/articles/200… > Mar 03 22:42
schestowitz GM might be run closer to Aussie one day… China. There are rumours about them buying the company Mar 03 22:42
schestowitz China is also bidding for some financial firms from the US. Mar 03 22:42
trmanco wtf -> http://blogs.computerworld.com/study_windows_… Mar 03 22:46
oiaohm Really does not matter about market share trmanco Mar 03 22:48
oiaohm If you have 100 percent control of a market that is costing you money it don’t help. Mar 03 22:48
schestowitz Stupid headline: Microsoft Safe From Linux Wrath Over TomTom.. For Now (MSFT) < http://www.businessinsider.com/microsoft-safe-… > Mar 03 22:49
schestowitz trmanco: bullshit Mar 03 22:49
trmanco schestowitz, I thought so too Mar 03 22:49
schestowitz It’s the Gralla shill and he’s probably quoting the US-only NPDsoft group Mar 03 22:49
schestowitz In the US, Windows is always a lot bigger Mar 03 22:49
schestowitz In EU, for example, about 40% is Linux Mar 03 22:49
trmanco oiaohm, no “market share” doesn’t really matter here Mar 03 22:49
schestowitz And Gralla is a dishonest shill. Search BN for “NPD” and “gralla” Mar 03 22:50
schestowitz I could paste some refs here if you want Mar 03 22:50
schestowitz oiaohm: makes a good point too Mar 03 22:50
schestowitz oiaohm makes a good point too Mar 03 22:50
schestowitz Microsoft gives WIndows away. It doesn’t know how the heck to make money Mar 03 22:51
schestowitz Now it tried to impose a 3-proceses limit , then charge for ‘premiums’ Mar 03 22:51
schestowitz Won’t work Mar 03 22:51
schestowitz You compete by making better products, not artifically crippling them (taking them further back). Simple business logic. Mar 03 22:52
oiaohm Also issue here 90 percent numbers don’t count the laptops with Linux in bios. Mar 03 22:52
schestowitz It’s not 90% Mar 03 22:52
schestowitz Wait.. Mar 03 22:52
schestowitz I’ll give you recent refs Mar 03 22:52
oiaohm Its very quickly becoming 100 percent Linux of some form. Mar 03 22:52
schestowitz http://blog.laptopmag.com/one-third-of-d… One Third of Dell Inspiron Mini 9s Sold Run Linux Mar 03 22:52
oiaohm 90 percent is valid for Australia. Mar 03 22:53
schestowitz http://english.ohmynews.com/ArticleV… “Asustek Chairman Jonney Shih has predicted that about 60 percent of Eee PCs to be shipped in 2009 will have Windows XP.” Mar 03 22:53
schestowitz There are more, but these are some recent ones. Mar 03 22:53
oiaohm Again they are very good at not stating what country. Mar 03 22:53
schestowitz Australia is no example Mar 03 22:53
schestowitz It’s ‘owned’ by Microsoft, just like the UK Mar 03 22:53
trmanco MSI has it’s own linux based OS Mar 03 22:54
amarsh04 agreed schestowitz Mar 03 22:54
oiaohm MS is trying to apply limits so they don’t have ME too in the higher markets. Mar 03 22:54
oiaohm ME too in the higher markets will kinda kill MS. Mar 03 22:55
schestowitz They must do *something* Mar 03 22:55
schestowitz They are a business, not happy hackers Mar 03 22:55
schestowitz They try to choke Linux, but it’s not possible Mar 03 22:55
schestowitz Now with TomTom. Mar 03 22:55
schestowitz Their goal is to produce profit, not make Windows prevalent Mar 03 22:56
oiaohm Thing is there are many companies that can jump in. Mar 03 22:56
oiaohm With the TomTom case. Mar 03 22:56
schestowitz See the words of Microsoft investors in the E-mail I posted some hours ago in BN Mar 03 22:56
oiaohm Reason patents applied to products that TomTom don’t produce. Mar 03 22:56
schestowitz The same rules go for SaaS Mar 03 22:56
oiaohm Ie Linux Kernel. Mar 03 22:56
schestowitz Just getting TRAFFIC doesn’t mean money Mar 03 22:56
schestowitz Just putting WIndows on netbooks doesn’t mean revenue Mar 03 22:57
oiaohm Patent law when sued over a item you can refer to maker of it. Mar 03 22:57
schestowitz They need to extract money from that somehow Mar 03 22:57
schestowitz They don’t know how. Mar 03 22:57
schestowitz So they tried selling h/w like IBM and HP Mar 03 22:57
schestowitz Now they intend to open shop Mar 03 22:57
schestowitz They fialed to profit from XBox and Zune Mar 03 22:57
oiaohm XBox is a good example of market share made by cost of bottom line. Mar 03 22:57
oiaohm So called for long term gain. Mar 03 22:58
oiaohm Only works if you can kill the companies competing against you. Mar 03 22:58
schestowitz Nintendo win. Mar 03 22:59
schestowitz *won Mar 03 22:59
schestowitz PS2 beat XBox as well. Mar 03 22:59
oiaohm MS was stupid. Mar 03 23:01
oiaohm Sony PS2 was built to be able to operate as a light weight PC. Mar 03 23:02
oiaohm Yet the Xbox cannot. Mar 03 23:02
schestowitz Is Microsoft’s Kumo Already A Failure? < http://www.mediapost.com/publications/?fa=A… > Mar 03 23:09
Balrog and the Wii? read this: http://hackmii.com/2009/02/why… Mar 03 23:09
Balrog it’s interesting that  the Xbox (original) was hacked quickly Mar 03 23:10
schestowitz It was made for Microsoft, so.. Mar 03 23:11
schestowitz XBox360 was hackd too Mar 03 23:11
Balrog yeah but not as easily Mar 03 23:11
Balrog here: Mar 03 23:11
Balrog http://www.xbox-linux.org/wiki/17_Mistak… Mar 03 23:11
Balrog about the original Mar 03 23:12
Balrog read about TEA for example … they used an encryption/signing algorithm that was *known* to be weak Mar 03 23:14
schestowitz Yes, that’s MS Mar 03 23:16
Balrog “A possible explanation why they chose TEA would be that they might have searched the internet for a “tiny” encryption algorithm – and got TEA.” Mar 03 23:17
schestowitz http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/… Mar 03 23:17
schestowitz http://blogs.securiteam.com/index… Mar 03 23:17
schestowitz http://www.itnews.com.au/News/75780,microsoft-cofe… Mar 03 23:17
schestowitz http://www.linuxelectrons.com/news/general/1436… Mar 03 23:18
Balrog Nintendo did better, but they messed up with strcmp vs. strncmp Mar 03 23:18
schestowitz http://news.zdnet.com/2100-1009_22-6218238.html Mar 03 23:18
Balrog the one they used terminates on a null character Mar 03 23:18
Balrog returning true Mar 03 23:18
schestowitz Ubuntu Newbie Guide: First 24 Hours With Ubuntu < http://www.webchicklet.com/computers/ubun… > Mar 03 23:21
schestowitz Balrog: Debian messed up with openssh too Mar 03 23:21
schestowitz Palm leads on open source development, iPhone gaining < http://www.fiercedeveloper.com/story/palm-lea… > Mar 03 23:22
schestowitz Since when is Palm doing open source? it’s just using Linux Mar 03 23:22
schestowitz They must have used some Foleo code in Pre Mar 03 23:23
*oiaohm has quit (Remote closed the connection) Mar 03 23:26
schestowitz trmanco: http://www.pcworld.com/article/160431/… Mar 03 23:28
balzac http://blogs.computerworld.com/lin… Mar 03 23:31
schestowitz *LOL* Snacker discovers Nokia phone in crisp packet < http://www.reghardware.co.uk/20… > Mar 03 23:31
schestowitz balzac: : http://news.prnewswire.com/DisplayReleaseConten… let’s see what they make of it Mar 03 23:32
schestowitz Depression? What depression? Google CFO nabs $1.2m bonus for five months’ work < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/03/03/g… > Mar 03 23:32
schestowitz Jet perks… “In a sign that Hewlett-Packard is running short on compensation-based expenses to eliminate – or that its executives simply abhor flying commercial first class – the PC vendor said it’s now cutting private jet perks for top executives.” <  http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/03/03… > Mar 03 23:33
schestowitz 1234567890 Square Root Day revelers to party like it’s 3/3/09 < http://news.cnet.com/8301-11386_3… > Mar 03 23:37
schestowitz Microsoft crash: http://wap.z51.fr/wapz51v3/dl.a… (see it while it’s alive) Mar 03 23:46
schestowitz Watch how corrupt the government is: http://www.prwatch.org/node/8249 more than 770 companies and interest groups hired an estimated 2,340 lobbyists to influence federal policy on climate change in the past year.” Mar 03 23:57
schestowitz http://www.prwatch.org/node/8250 “The fortunes of the American economy have grown so alarming and the pace of the decline so swift that economists are now straining to describe where events are headed, dusting off a word that has not been invoked since the 1940s: depression.” But don’t expect politicians to start using that descriptor.” Mar 03 23:58
schestowitz “The economy is spiraling down at an accelerating pace, threatening to undermine the Obama administration’s projections of growth in years to come.” http://www.nytimes.com/glogin?URI=… Mar 03 23:59
schestowitz New site: http://www.linux.com/welcome/ Mar 03 23:59
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  19. EPO Management Tricks EPO Staff Into Taking More Paycuts

    “Education and childcare reform” [sic] is an António Campinos "reform" in the same sense regressive salary reductions are just “adjustments” (euphemism); Electronic opt-in gaffes, according to staff representatives, show that the tradition of Benoît Battistelli carries on at the Office, taking away from staff for a few corrupt officials to milk the institution to death

  20. Links 14/10/2021: Whisker Menu 2.6.1 and KDE's Birthday

    Links for the day

  21. Links 14/10/2021: DragonFly 6.0.1 Released and Red Hat Loses Another Top Executive

    Links for the day

  22. IRC Proceedings: Wednesday, October 13, 2021

    IRC logs for Wednesday, October 13, 2021

  23. Süddeutsche Zeitung Became a Propaganda Arm of EPO Management (and by Extension Software Patents/Patent Lobbyists)

    EPO ‘genius’ António Campinos enjoys shallow press coverage, which echoes or resembles Benoît Battistelli‘s corruption of the media (paid-for fluff)

  24. GNOME (and Debian) Infringe Human Rights by Shipping Parental Control Software (Internally Called “Malcontent”)

    Guest post by Ryan, reprinted with permission

  25. No, JWZ, Discord is Not “IRC With Pictures”

    Guest post by Ryan, reprinted with permission

  26. The EPO’s Overseer/Overseen Collusion — Part XI: “General Bock” - Battistelli's Swiss Apprentice?

    The António Campinos-led EPO won’t be subjected to real oversight by the Administrative Council, which ‘met’ (online) earlier today; so we look at who in the Administrative Council did what; today we wrap up the parts about Switzerland (third part of three)

  27. Links 13/10/2021: Sparky 2021.10 and New Archcraft

    Links for the day

  28. Links 13/10/2021: Firefox Keylogger on (By Default), GNOME Platform Design Discussed

    Links for the day

  29. [Meme] [Teaser] Swiss Alexandre Benallas

    The EPO‘s French dictator, Benoît ‘Vichy’ Battistelli, might be relieved to hear that his enabler in the adjacent Switzerland also enlisted armed bullies to keep the population down (the father of António Campinos might know a thing or two about those; it’s why he fled to France)

  30. IRC Proceedings: Tuesday, October 12, 2021

    IRC logs for Tuesday, October 12, 2021

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